This is Part 16 of the Lauren Salzman series as we continue to analyze her role in Nxivm. Part of our study concerns whether Lauren is more victim or more perpetrator. She will soon be sentenced.
Lauren is on the witness stand. She is being examined by AUSA Tanya Hajjar and she is testifying against Keith Alan Raniere at his trial.
The date is May 20, 2019.
In this post, we shall see that there was a DOS book, rather like a bible – and that Lauren, who helped write the book following Keith’s micro-guidance and direction, is asked to read sections of it and explain its meaning.
In this respect, we are getting a rare glimpse at the philosophy of DOS as it was created by Raniere and explained to the slaves.
In essence, this is Raniere’s mindfucking of women. This is the technique he used not only in DOS but throughout the years. It was the same technique – only the wording and the specifics are different.
In this case, he plans to enslave them and abuse them and he paints a picture of it being for their highest welfare and good.
Of course, any sane person could see through his bullshit and manipulation. But Lauren and the other DOS slaves are not sane.
And that was the type he was always looking for – insane women. And that’s all he ever got.
Tanya Hajjar is examining Lauren Salzman. Her answers are often inarticulate, filled with Nxivm asshole jargon [i.e internalized experiential understanding] and she is a queen of the run-on sentence. But through it all, I think the reader will see the essence of Raniere’s self-serving, horrendous and deceptive philosophy. He was making women slaves, not for their gain but for his – not for their welfare but to their detriment – and he knew it.
****
Q You testified about the DOS book and your efforts with the DOS book; can you explain what that was?
A The book was, as I understood it, was the philosophy of the concepts of why have a master, why be a slave, like what are the benefits of doing that, why have a sorority or a group all collateralized, you know, with each other — with their masters and with each other, why — what it meant that you were making this commitment to serve a master and ultimately like that your master was supposed to be your highest priority and that your main job as a slave was to always be thinking about them and thinking about how to move their life forward and that should be the highest priority always above all other things.
Q Who created the context of the DOS program?
A Keith created it…..
***
Q Did the defendant [Raniere] ever tell you what his plans were for the DOS book, what he intended for it?
A I think he wanted it to be like a — like what was — he compared it to some of the other things that existed in like the field of like yoga, so it could be something like that, like understanding how to have a relationship with your guru or, you know, those type of yoga practices but the book would be very pretty and it would outline the philosophy, people could go and they could study the book but the book was supposed to be secret and that he had envisioned that it would be kept in like a secret location and that people could go but they would have to be like basically checked that they wouldn’t record anything, they wouldn’t copy it, they wouldn’t take any pictures of it, you know, like screens to be able to go in and that the book could be like maybe chained to the wall or something, it would be secure so they couldn’t take it, they couldn’t copy it, there would be no evidence of it but they could go to these places and they could study this book.
Q …. did you have an understanding of where the book would physically be?
A We talked about the idea of [DOS] getting bigger and having different areas that would have chapters.
***
[Lauren is now asked to read sections of the DOS book]
Q Can you read the first text that appears under “Furtherance, Honor and Gratitude?”
A “Your sole highest desire must be to further your master from whom all good things come and are related. You must honor and hold your master and lineage above all others in every way.”
***
Q Can you read the highlighted text, Ms. Salzman?
A “I believe something must be so, I allow for no excuses. It is the ultimate foundation.”
Q Was this concept, the concept of no excuse in DOS, a common one?
A Yes.
Q Can you explain that?
A Well, the concept came — I mean came first from I think SOP, the men’s curriculum, and possibly also Jness, the women’s curriculum within our NXIVM umbrella but the idea was in any circumstance because of the way that men are brought up and raised they have life experiences and certain cause and effect — a relationship to cause and effect that women don’t have and so that in any circumstance men have two options, they can either do the thing that’s required or take a consequence for it but that women because of the way that we are raised and coddled by society and by men in particular, we have a third option, we can do the thing, take the consequence or victimize ourselves, make an excuse and get off the hook and so this idea that women need to get rid of the third excuse was something that was — we had already been spending time interacting with in — within our community and curriculums.
So then the idea that we wanted to become these women who were self-reliant and who were willing to be able to do what it took to be responsible, participating, contributing members of society that the men in our lives felt they could depend on and count on and respect, we wanted that and so the idea of no excuses was like get rid of that third option and learn to do whatever it takes to show up and do the job.
Q Do you have a view on that concept now?
A Well, it started to become problematic when there were things that were valid concerns that were being raised and then we were told it was us making excuses and so things that were valid and of concern were turned back around and we were told it was our issue, you know, and that this is — we’re just being women, you know, and largely — I mean in part there was this idea that we were having some kind of democratic process but the truth was if we had objections to different viewpoints, it was always because we were being women or we were having issues because men wouldn’t have objections, they would just do it but that’s not a democratic process and so that became difficult.
Q Turning to paragraph 10 in the book, can you read the highlighted portion?
A “Seeing how I can’t move the object is blame. It’s what we do internally with excuses. Women in particular are miraculous excuse finders. Why? Because it works. If a woman goes out in public and there’s some sort of problem, she needs a bag carried or something terrible is happening, she has more options in our western culture to find excuses than men do.
“If you find you cannot do something or you can’t do something, that’s not an excuse not to do it. Saying you can’t do something is an immediate denial of potency. That is a practice you want to not do. You want to practice the opposite. You want to ask how can I do things in a way that I didn’t think I could do.”
Q And the phrase “women in particular are miraculous excuse finders,” is that the same concept you were alluding to previously?
A Yes.
Q This is under the chapters — the paragraphs with numbers 11, 12 and 13; can you read the highlighted portion?
A “The most important lineage is, if you will, your slaves, your slaves’ slaves, etc, and your master, your master’s master, your master’s master’s master all the way up like that. They would say what would my master’s master’s master say. So, actually — it is actually importing what your master and the lineage would say into all of your decisions, it’s holding them above.
“Well, actually everyone is related, everyone is in my lineage. I could extend my lineage to every single person. So I don’t have to hold anyone above anyone else. Everyone is equal, everyone is perfect, everyone is the same, we’re all new age. Let’s eat some crystals and all be happy. But that’s not what this is saying, there are people who are in your lineage and directly of your concern and people that are not. People of the lineage and that lineage just like the master becomes internalized and you hold that above all others.”
Q What is lineage in DOS, what does that mean?
A Lineage is — so, there are eight lines for the eight first line masters and anybody we enrolled under us. So, Keith at the top, then me, the women I enrolled, the women they enrolled, the women they enrolled, that makes one lineage. So, there are eight of them.
Q And the phrase, “What would my master’s master’s master say,” for everyone in DOS who is that person?
A Ultimately, all the way up is Keith is the master’s master’s master’s master.
Q So, these practices that come after the — there are lessons and there are practices beneath it, what are the practices?
A There were suggestions of something that you could do to build your internalized experiential understanding of the concept that was presented in — the philosophical and theoretical concept that was illustrated in the chapter. Then there was a practice you could do so it could become practical and you could learn to be that and live that.
Q Can you read that second practice please?
A “Contemplate why your master is better than all other people, why they should be held above all others.”
Q And was that put into practice in DOS, the concept of your master being better than all other people?
A Yes.
Q So, this is under Lesson 10, “What Does Master Mean,” can you read the highlighted portion?
A “It is a conscience of fear, it is not the highest but ultimately they should be able to make a vow and it should be so distasteful to break the vow that they’d rather die than break their vow and that’s a vow for everything. This is very physical manifestation of the vow with the brand, with all of this stuff that might really be the first and only thing that represents a forever until your last breath, collateralized and on an ongoing basis more collateral is put into this thing so we have an example to build all other things from.”
Q What is this describing?
A It’s describing that your collateral should be so distasteful that you would rather die than break your promise and that initially, you’re going to have this conscience, you’re going to be so afraid that your collateral might be released that you will build a conscience about it, that you’ll remember not to break it because you couldn’t live with yourself if you did, you couldn’t live with the consequences of that because it is so scary.
***
Q So, under Lesson 16: “Nature of Commitment, Nature of the Vow… Can you read the highlighted portion, please?
A “That’s why the master-slave relationship works so well. You submit, you surrender yourself to a master but it’s the deeper principle that is symbolized through that person. This vow is more than that. When you make a vow to your master or when someone makes a vow to you, this is the deepest vow you can do, maybe as close a vow as being in the military where if you try to go AWOL they kill you which happens but even that, if you are a soldier out on war and you tried to escape and they kill you, that death is not necessarily as harsh a collateral as what we ask as collateral because people should say death isn’t even a way out, …. that’s how strong this commitment is.”
Q And did you consider your commitment to be this strong, as strong as described in the DOS book?
A Yes.
Q In that same section: “Discipline is correction and obedience to that correction;” can you explain – was correction a concept in DOS?
A Yes.
Q Could you explain that?
A If we did something and we are given feedback that it was not caring or loving or considerate or mindful, we were to fix it. Anything that was pointed out should be corrected.
Q And underneath that: “Obedience, it doesn’t matter what the command is, it matters that you obey. It doesn’t matter if you understand the command, it matters that you obey.”
A Yes.
Q Was that a concept in DOS?
A Yes.
Q This highlighted text: “Making excuses about it, you can suffer about it, you can practice interpersonal games in a way that you get around it;” what is this describing?
A It is describing making excuses not to just obey, not to stay and uphold your word to keep everything completely confidential and be in this vow of obedience.
Q Are these the same excuses that you were describing earlier?
A Yes.
Q Can you read what’s under Chapter 2?
A “Your greatest joy is to surrender completely all things in all ways without reservation completely exposed to your master and master’s will. The best slave derives the highest pleasure from being her master’s ultimate tool independent of use. By joyously offering all your decisions to be made or used by your master, you surrender your life… mind, body and possessions for unconditional use.”
Q Did this text under Chapter 2 have a role in the ceremony involving the branding that you described earlier…?
A Yes, we specifically said that in the branding ceremony, that “my greatest joy is to surrender completely all things in all ways,” almost word for word this whole thing we read; “I surrender my life, mind, body and possessions for unconditional use.”
Q And this practice underneath that chapter of “asking your master for permission with the greatest feeling of joy. Challenge yourself to do that. The most valuable decisions would be the ones you’re most afraid they’ll say no to” — was that also a concept in DOS?
A Yes, regarding like asking for permission for something and you should ask permission about the stuff that you feel most specifically attached to, so that if they say no, you know, you were willing to surrender it even if they said no. That’s how you know it was really particularly committed and obedient and surrender, that is the hardest thing and you’re willing to give it up.
Q In Lesson 4, “Without Reservation Completely Exposed,” the text under that reads: “So completely exposed means completely vulnerable without hiding anything, that there are no closets that are unopened, no little boxes, nothing unexposed, truly an open vessel.”
A Yes.
Q What did you mean by those words, “an open vessel”?
A An open vessel, like totally open to be able to serve any purpose or any function no matter what it is without evaluating the function, without judging the function, without reacting to the function, just being willing to do the function.
Q Is that the DOS slave?
A Yes.
Q Under the practices under this chapter, there’s a practice involving “sharing deepest fears, fantasies, secrets and thoughts;” was that part of DOS?
A Yes, some parts.
Q Can you explain that?
A That practicing sharing, that is a type of rooting out of pride or finding areas of fear and so exposing those would in theory being freeing and so that was a practice done to confess something, to be vulnerable and to be willing to be totally exposed to your master.
Q And looking back now, do you have a different view of this practice of confession, of sharing deepest fears?
A Well, I think it — I mean it makes you particularly vulnerable, you know, in situations. It makes you … specifically vulnerable and more susceptible to be taken advantage of if abuses of power happen, but also I mean some of those things too go back to the — a lot of the things — it didn’t always have to, but I think in general too that also it took a sexual connotation at different times.
Q What do you mean?
A Your fantasies, like sometimes took a — what are your — like sexual fantasies component.
****
[End of Lauren’s testimony for Part 16]
Very good. When Keith wanted women to tell their secrets, he was thinking of their sexual fantasies. This was what he really wanted to know.
And none of these women had an inkling that their Vanguard did not have their best interest at heart but was seeking his own selfish pleasures. Were they stupid, insane or both?
Just like Lauren read from the DOS book, it is hard to think of them as victims. That does not mean they are necessarily perpetrators.
There is something so vitally lacking in these women to buy into this nonsense – this easily discernible nonsense – that intelligent women – as these women appeared to be – should have easily seen it for what it was – disastrous to them.
That they didn’t, reveals they are lacking in something essential, something inherent in most people – the instinct to survive and do what is best for oneself.
And the common sense to know the difference between what’s good and what is not.
It is pretty clear to me that had Lauren and Keith not been arrested, she would be following him today, thinking she is ‘making excuses because she is a woman’ for not doing some insane thing he wanted – then doing it anyway – and going through life as his slave as he punished and tortured her in his sadistic way.
And she would be thanking him and thinking of him, her master, as the highest being of all.
This may be a personality type – albeit rare – the perfectly selfless moron.
*******
Earlier posts in the Lauren Salzman series.
Part 1: How Lauren Salzman Described Her Branding Session
Part 3: Lauren Salzman Describes Collateral She Got From Her Slaves, After Lying to Them About DOS
Part 5 Lauren Salzman and Her Slaves Got Bare-Ass Paddling
Part 6: Lauren Salzman Manages Her Slaves – With Cruelty and Insanity
Part 8: More Insanity: Lauren Salzman Touches Man at Volleyball; Keith Says ‘No Avatar Baby’
Part 9 Lauren Salzman Sent to Mind-F–k Gay Woman Who Did Not Want Keith as a Sperm Donor
Part 11 Lauren Salzman Explains Raniere’s Creepy Readiness Drills
Part 12 How Lauren Salzman Was Cheated Out of Motherhood by Keith Raniere and DOS
Part 13 Lauren Salzman Names Inner Circle and Keith’s Relationships With Them
[…] Part 16 Lauren Salzman Reads From DOS Bible — ‘Women in Particular Are Miraculous Excuse Finders’ […]
Scott,
I listened to the recording and you are 100% right. I sincerely mean it.
You must be taking smart pills.
It’s repeatedly said that Raniere speaks word salad and says nothing. That’s not entirely true though. As others have said, he’s setting them up, teaching them that they are, in fact, nothing but his tools.
The collateral they provide most definitely destroys them if they “choose not to honor their vow”. Therefore, anything he demands of them, murder or possibly worse if there is such an act, they will obey.
This indoctrination allows hope of survival, everything will be okay and also a sense that they are free of responsibility for whatever they’ve been told to do. No longer are they an individual controlling their actions but a tool that hasn’t the ability to act independently. Rather, circumstance that has been put in motion with no way of stopping. Empty vessels, prosthetics, that are merely extensions of Vanguard himself. They are his hands, his mind, his thoughts.
As a practicality, they essentially no longer exist.
Raniere is if I can use an analogy, the Borg from a Star Trek.
Lol
Mitch,
Brilliant synopsis! I liked the joke at the end.
Side note: I liked the Borg story line and how Q introduced the Enterprise to the Borg. However, I felt there were to many episodes dedicated to the Borg.
I think the original Star Trek episode The Way to Eden is closer to the mark(Nxivm).
I like the show Trek shows. I am by no means a Trekkie.
Yeah, surrre, niceguy.
I think I get it. Sex is like Bjorn Borg playing tennis? Or is it, Bjorn Borg stroking a tennis ball is the same as stroking a Borg’s arm and is the same as stroking a penis? BTW Who is it again who owns Keith’s penis?
NutJob,
Jesus H. Christ!!!! No one owns Keith’s penis. It’s the second lesson all new harem members learn. The first lesson is they now have genital warts.
*****
Bjorn Borg was a victim of the over-sized composite tennis racquet. He didn’t have the foot speed to keep up as the modern game developed. “Gone are the days of the volley.” Does anyone care? 😉
He was also a victim of having a little bat-shit Flowers in him and quitting the sport for 8 years. Thinking the game and technology wouldn’t have passed him by during his retirement was about as stupid as retiring in the first place.
NutJob,
I concur!!!
Andre Agassi dated Brooke Shields and his game went to shit. Then he dated Barbra Streisand and his game got better. LOL
Listen to the first five minutes of this and you’ll see the similarities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQzCtH7VrcU As I’ve said before, Raniere didn’t invent this, he learned it when he was in Amway and applied it to NXIVM. Amway has been doing this for several decades.
I think a lot of the women in this group must have been very unhappy with their lives before joining DOS. Signing up to be someone else’s property isn’t like something a happy/joyful person does. It makes me think more of someone who is borderline suicidal and willing to do whatever they think will make them feel better.
Most of these women were changed very slowly over a long period of time. Raniere got lazy and then started moving them into the weird stuff too quickly. So much for the world’s smartest man!
Bingo
I view the incoherent responses are a result of two possible motives:
a. She really didn’t understand the meaning she was trying to explain. I mean, KR issues his proclamation of women not to truly help them. His ideas were garbled nonsense, and maybe she really didn’t understand what the most brilliant man in the world was trying to say.
His thoughts and teachings needed a scientifically accepted point of center and baseline. He made this shit up, so it came from left field.
Or,
b. It dawned on her in her explanation that no matter how it was interpreted, it meant the complete subjugation of women.
Raniere & Co. was very good at slowly destroying the logical mind.
Scott,
Is that what Amway did to you?
Oh my poor Texan….Lordy….Lordy….You done had your mental capacity diminished. Ain’t that a crying shame? Shit… I always thought you were born a retard or sniffed too much glue.
God bless your wife for staying with your ignoramus ass.
Frank wrote — “And that was the type he was always looking for – insane women.”
How insane do you think Sarah Edmondson and India Oxenberg are? Sarah followed Raniere for 12 years and, according to what you have said, would have been taught, and as a green sash, would have taught to thousands of others, Raniere’s twisted views on rape and orgasms and pedophilia.
How about India who followed Raniere for 6 plus years? Working at Rainbow Gardens, where you’ve said workers would have been grooming children for Raniere. Do you think India was insane enough to have practiced Raniere’s teachings on the little ones she was in charge of grooming?
Raniere missed wildly on a estimating A LOT of things. Like underestimating Sarah, Frank, and India’s mother. The smartest, most ethical man in the world was neither. By A LOT.
I wouldn’t use the word “insane,” either. At least not in the legal sense, or their highly paid lawyers would have least attempted to use that defense. Manipulated and lied to, no doubt.
https://smallville.fandom.com/wiki/Isobel%27s_Spell_Book
Speaking of sex fantasies — here’s where methinks Keith got his cues (above link).
It’s all been writ before: the secret spell book, the laser-like glowing “mark of transference” that transformed Lana Lang into a sex-crazed witch of mid-evil yore!
Sultan isn’t the only Smallville fanboy with a “Madonna-Whore” complex.
Wonder how many Smallville episodes Raniere and Salzman obsessed over before cueing up the Bronfman broomstick jet to fetch Allison Mack after nabbing Kreuk and Hildreth in the service of their Vanguards perversions — and the $alzman’s true green god?
Too bad my dead sister, Gina, tangled with the madman during his “Coagula” phase. THAT’s how I know you’re all lucky to be alive.
Thanks Heidi. Interesting link that you’ve shared.
Raniere had his sex fantasies before Smallville ever came along. Glad to see you’re doing something productive, however, by finding this ridiculous BS. LOL
One of the few times I agree with you, Scott. Remember, this is a woman who saw Raniere climbing out of his sister’s bedroom window knowing they were fucking and she did nothing about it despite her Mormon background. She might as well have believed for herself all the bullshit he spewed about her sister being a Buddhist princess beyond her years (or whatever it was), and that Raniere would eventually take her sister as his wife even though she knew he was playing around with all sorts of youngins.
You should read my comments more carefully, I’ve been saying this for over a year on this website.
I think she did nothing about Raniere after she caught him f*cking her underage sister BECAUSE of her Mormon background.
Scott,
You are a fucking sack of shit. I actually felt bad for you because you are so pitiful. God, it would suck if someone alerts Amway to the fact you have broken a court order…
Boohoo, Boohoo, Scott Johnson may go bankrupt again. LOL
Which court order did I break? Making fun of retards like YOU? LOL
Anonymous,
Gee-whiz, I wonder who you are? Don’t worry about Heidi. Worry about yourself. Maybe you should go a diet? A diet would help your diabetes….Or do BBW & PAWG fetish porn from the comfort of your government subsidized apartment. Just think you could be financially independent.
Have a great day!
Here she is still talking of Nxivm as “our”. Any genuine person up there on the stand, doing the right thing would want to call it anything but mine/ours and start to distance themselves regardless. I doubt she can let it go. It will be very interesting to see what prison does for her. The answers when asked what does she think of things now are garbled and not really answered intelligently or if she’s actually thought about it.
“…reveals they are lacking in something essential, something inherent in most people – the instinct to survive”. With all the Nxivm teachings, their initial goal must be to simply dull and eventually kill off any instinct in a person and then that would make them a perfect candidate for something like DOS. Nothing speaks more of what was going on in these intensives than the Kristin Snyder treatment and the behaviour of the students around her, including her spouse. Instinct of there is a mentally unwell person needing professional help get them to a hospital ASAP, just simply wasn’t there, no action even if the thought crossed ones mind briefly. Instinct dying away, gone. Simply, fill a head with crap and meaningless words in the disguise of something profound and get them to over think absolutely everything and instinct gone.
Good catch.
I suspect that right now, the Salzmans are engaging in some sort of mutual justification of what they were involved in, and what they did. They indeed need the time in prison – and apart.
Amazing catch!!
Hope you caught that, Frank!
It was indeed a great catch. Lauren’s use of the word “our” as in “our NXIVM umbrella” and “our community and curriculums” suggests she felt it was still her community.
Great Catch, Natashka!
And it proves my point exactly.
The gangster leaders of NXIVM are still in NXIVM and always will be in NXIVM.
Lauren and her Demon Mother Nancy intend to rebuild NXIVM in some form after they get out of the joint.
And NXIVM will still be a criminal gang.
And the other members of NXIVM intend to rebuild the criminal gang.
In many cases, they have no future outside of NXIVM.
Nataska,
Excellent observation!
Lauren’s use of “our” in relation to DOS is beyond nuts and creepy, in view of the fact she was the prosecution’s star witness.
I guess I need to get in line to pay a compliment… 😉
It must have been one of my more observant days 😬
Yes. For a while I could not believe how Heidi accepted leaving her spouse. I would leave the seminar with my wife. Especially if she has been erratic. hell we would not even go to the seminar. Who cares if we lose money. Health is more important…
But I then realized that they were brainwashed. They were in a cult and they were being brainwashed. Everyone lacked decision making skills. If their instructor said NO, they followed. It is a bit hard to judge.
Listening to Lauren’s testimony was pretty scary. Keith was extremely controlling. I am glad he got caught. He wanted people to have a psychical mark of the pain he was doing. This was his downfall. I think people tolerate emotional pain more. The physical pain, the psychical mark opened people’s eyes.
Thank you Frank and team for fighting this fight.
–I think people tolerate emotional pain more. The physical pain, the psychical mark opened people’s eyes.
I don’t think so. Emotional pain can last for years. Unless it is a chronic condition, most physical pain is gone after a short time period and can be alleviated with painkillers. What opened people’s eyes is the fact that people could *see* the physical pain and the sheer stupidity–Raniere has got to be a moral imbecile–of labeling women master/slaves and branding them like cattle in the twenty first century. People often hide emotional pain–they want to put on a strong face to the world. In Raniere’s world, this fact was once again manipulated. They were told some bullshit that feeling sad or sorry for yourself because you actually are due to an emotionally unhealthy situation was self-indulgent or other such nonsense–it was *their* issue. Ironically, it was Raniere who was always throwing manipulative pity parties for himself.
Good points . I think he had gotten away with so much he didn’t think twice about using the term master and slave . He was an idiot .
There is nothing philosophical about these writings. It is incoherent trash and manipulation techniques that anyone with half a brain would see through.
At the first intensive, the modules were set up to extract from everyone that walked through the door their vulnerabilities and life secrets.
With that as a launching point, Nxivm then proceeded to zero in on those most vulnerable to their evil agenda.
As one who actually saw this very early on, I was told by Barbara Jeske to be quiet and hold my thoughts in group breakouts!
Reading this all I kept thinking was, Keith is preparing these women to follow all orders even the crime of murder. What he had done with his small inner circle years earlier, Keith was now expanding exponentially with DOS
He, as master, would ultimately have the power to decide who lived or died.
Keith represents the core of evil its master and supreme power.
Jim Raniere was correct “My son is crazy.”
“Furtherance, Honor and Gratitude”
Will Keith Raniere show Gratitude when his cell mates fuck him up the ass?
I don’t believe women only in particular are excuse finders. I think the majority of people are. Excuses are made when there is another choice that is more in the immediate self-interest of the person and the time comes to fulfill an implicit or explicit commitment, whether to the self or other(s). They will often rationalize to sacrifice it because a healthy conscience knows such behavior is wrong. Honorable people keep their commitments, and don’t have to be collateralized or blackmailed into doing so. Their word is good enough. Raniere abused this fact about human psychology, causing women to make commitments in a secretive, unhealthy, and manipulative environment, and that’s why he had to send his minions after uncooperative women, or blackmail them into doing so.
Good point. I would argue it’s one of those cases in which the different sides, male and female here, may tend to do things somewhat differently, but that in the big picture it’s still effectively the same, and there’s certainly no objective way to determine that one somehow necessarily does it more than the other.
Raniere himself is a case in point, that a man can be as much of an excuse-finder as any woman – nothing was ever his fault, like repeatedly losing millions of dollars on attempts at commodities trading. And he even did it with some touches of rather stereotypically feminine “hysteria,” such as claiming he was bleeding from his orifices.
I have learned more about KAR reading these trial transcripts than a thousand articles.
In my opinion, his senseless ramblings do not constitute a well-organized critical analysis of philosophy. Rather, they represent the ramblings of a disturbed man, twisting words to manipulate the psyche of his victims to his benefit.
He is trying to paint himself a prophet, when in fact he is a sociopath.
Very insightful, indeed.
It’s typical that gurus and group leaders present nothing more than a mashup of half-understood bits of various philosophies. I can’t think of one that is really interesting philosophically; typically, they’re studies in amateurish, authoritarian implementations of extreme utilitarianism, that is end-justifies-the-means rationalizations of some sort.
Such organizations and ideologies also usually revolve around some type of idealism, as does Communism, believing that they have to save or transform the planet somehow. That results in organizational structures with a significant number of members who sacrifice to live and work communally, and a broader membership that often lives minimally and without accumulating capital so as to devote all their resources to the perceived great cause – all under repressive, thought-reforming totalitarian control. They often nominally espouse libertarian capitalism and some ideal of “freedom,” though excepting a few wealthy or celebrity members who get special treatment as “firsts among equals,” they thus function much like totalitarian Communist regimes.
Fascinating–like Hitler even–and in line with the pomp and circumstance; the bowing, quick glimpses, and elevation to stardom mirror Hitler’s orchestrated parades.
In addition, criticise the NAZIs and you died. Analogous punishment was meted to the NXIVM doubters. We don’t know if KAR definitively killed anyone, but at this stage, it wouldn’t surprise me if he did, as it is inline with historically related organizations.
I’m curious: any theories on what KAR’s endgame was? He had to have one. My hunch is something political, but I haven’t seen evidence of that.
He wanted to have, at minimum, eight orgasms in a row while getting naked women and girls to strangle one another. He wanted it filmed for profits and for his pornographic compulsions. He wanted to be able to harm others, both impersonally and personally.
Then he wanted to be adored for it all, to be worshipped as a supreme being. He wanted women to learn to eat their abortions after they’d cooked his pizza just right. Then he wanted to go nighty-night for the day, assured that his groupies would keep hating everybody but, most of all, to keep destroying themselves.
Keith Raniere’s band camp.
Raniere’s actions have been even more severe than his words. He imposed his sexual demands upon those who were innocent, too young for him to even approach in such a manner. Gina Hutchinson, Rhiannon and how many other teenagers have Raniere’s actions affected? Raniere has acted as a complete demonic and inhumane sexual pervert, and many of his cohorts were pimping for him, enthusiastically and for years and years, ignoring the wrongs.
I think that Nancy Salzman was one who pimped out Kristin Snyder to Raniere, against Kristin Snyder’s will, against her wishes and against her well-being. Nancy Salzman was pretending to be the psychological counselor, the much-admired teacher, guide and mentor.
Nancy Salzman, from what I observe, handed over Kristin Snyder to Raniere like a door prize, and she had help from Esther Chiappone, to say the least. Who can see any change of heart or mind from either of these two, or from many who remain similarly attached, and all the while trying to conceal a sickening and individual malevolence? It does not matter in WHOSE name these people claim to have acted for or for who’s behalf. Their free will is what they chose to ignore, to overlook and for what? For what?
Lauren Salzman exemplified the truly lost life of utter foulness, during her days of court testimony. She showed herself as being still completely saturated in her experience of toxic living. As many years as she was into Raniere, she might never come out of it. India Oxenbourg at least had a real mother who refused to let it be. There are mothers and fathers who would never speak to India again, who would”ve cut her off, if she were their daughter. Sarah Edmondson found the presence of mind and the courage to show the world her own branding. She had finally had enough. Hers was a raw exposure, yet even today some clamor to criticize her. Where is understanding or fairness or compassion?
Grow for yourselves, you who cast stones. Measure yourselves. There IS nowhere else to begin. You are not the judge. Have the guts to be honest and kill off the blame game. If your child has made even a serious error, would you then turn your back upon him or her, forever? Well if so, then have one helluva good time with that. The sun doesn’t come out tomorrow, bubba. It is now or never. Please give others the chance that you want others to give to you when you fall. Sustain living and learning instead of causing more harm.
Those who have struggled and walked away from Raniere’s poisons have been able to return to hearing their own individual thoughts and consciences. This can be seen and can be encouraged. Deciding to walk away could be understood as finding redemption and as having found the courage to see the damages and to strive to mend those damages, as well as to make amends. Don’t try to cheat anyone out their marbles. Your fucking marbles and your fingers’ aim are no better. I would rather be down in the dirt with Sarah Edmondson than to be riding by, nose in the air, on your high horses.