First time published: Emails from purported journalist inviting Toni Natalie to Mexico (VÉASE ABAJO PARA LA TRADUCCIÓN EN ESPAÑOL)

In 2012, Toni Natalie was invited to Mexico to be interviewed for a story on NXIVM. At the time, something seemed fishy to Miss Natalie.

Toni Natalie had experienced the Vanguard before. She was not eager to experience him in Mexico.

Later, Kristin Keeffe revealed that the invitation was a plot by Keith Raniere to lure her to Mexico where an arrest warrant awaited. She was to be held in a Mexican prison. Keith Raniere wanted to destroy her.

In light of recent emails, threatening enemies of Keith Raniere with arrest in Mexico, these 2012 emails are worth examining. Was this an authentic request for an interview or was Keith trying to lure Toni to Mexico for a vengeful purpose? These emails have never been published before.

Email #1

 February 22, 2012

From: Yuriria Sierra <yuriria_sierra@hotmail.com>

Subject: Hello (again)

To: Toni Foley  

Dear Ms. Natalie,

I sent you this request few days ago, but i haven’t got any reply to it. Perhaps you have not read it, but let me insist on it:

My name is Yuriria Sierra. I am a journalist from Mexico City and I am doing an investigative piece on several human development programs and organizations that have flourished in Mexico over the past few years.One of these organizations is NXIVM, which has been particularly successful in my country with its “Executive Success Programs.” A few acquaintances of mine have even taken some of their programs. One thing that all these organizations have in common is controversy. And it seems that NXIVM has had its fair share of it, although interestingly, not so in Mexico. As I’ve looked through the Internet to gather information, your name has surfaced many times in connection to NXIVM, and with its founder Keith Raniere.
These are the articles I found on the Internet:

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2003/1013/088.html
http://www.observer.com/2010/daily-transom/poor-little-rich-girls?show=all
http://metroland.net/back_issues/vol29_no32/features.html

Being a former insider of NXIVM and having been personally involved with Mr. Raniere, I believe your input would be very valuable for this piece. Please let me know if this is something that would interest you.

Yours truly,

Yuriria

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Email #2

February 22, 2012 

From: Toni Natalie

Yuriria, I didn’t receive your last email…I need a little background on you if you don’t mind, before we talk,(who do you work for, forward a copy of some of your work) from what I have been told NXIVM controls a lot of the media in Mexico…I am very interested in helping the people of Mexico understand about NXIVM and it’s founder Keith Raniere and his partner Nancy Salzman  ….go to the timeunion.com, I will foreword the PDF so that you can see the print newspaper copy….t

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Email #3

February 23, 2012 

From: Toni Natalie

Yuriria, I am having trouble with my email…of course, so I am not sure if you received my last emails and documents….I can be reached at 585-303-1484, if you could please forward me any background on you it would make me more comfortable …thanks toni

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Email #4

March 1

From: Yuriria Sierra

Dear Ms Natalie,

Thank you for your response. I have been through unexpected work changes this week, so i do apologize for my delay in sending you my whereabouts. I don’t have any evidence that NXIVM has the presence you think in the Mexican media. Nevertheless I understand your concern. I work for Grupo Imagen, one of the leading media groups in Mexico. Until last week this was my radio news show webpage:http://www.imagen.com.mx/programa/yuriria_sierra/58/ Now i’m anchoring a new one inwww.reporte.com.mx<http://www.reporte.com.mx>. I do as well write in a national wide newspaper www.excelsior.com.mx<http://www.excelsior.com.mx> You can check my quotidien column in this webpage.

I visited the Times Union webpage as you suggested. I must say, that I was also interested in contacting Barbara Bouchey. However from what I gather, and to be quite frank, she doesn’t seem to me a very reliable or trustworthy source. And given that this is a time-sensitive matter, and a busy schedule in an electoral year here in Mexico as well, your response really will determine if I should have to postpone this endeavor for the time being.

Let me know your thoughts and thanks again for your email.

Yuriria

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Email #5

 March 1, 2012 

From: Toni Natalie

Hi Yuriria,

Are you planning on coming to the US for an interview or did you just want to talk over the phone?….toni

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 Email #6

 March 23, 2012 

From: Yuriria Sierra

Hello again,
I do apollogyse for this belated reply; these have been imposible days due to the tons of work i have been facing. Unfortunally, i am tollally unable to travel to the US (or anywhere else) these days, because as you probably know there is an electoral process in my country. So, as an news tv and radio show achor is quite impossible to skip my emissions until month of august. I was thinking, instead, that probably you’d be interested in traveling to Mexico City in order to have a talk with me. Does it appear possible to you?

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Email #7

April 10, 2012

From: Yuriria Sierra

Dear Ms Natalie,

I don’t know if you got my last email. I expressed once again my interest in interviewing you for the piece I’m doing. Although there are other people I could interview in connection to NXIVM (Barbara Bouchey is my next choice), from what’s been published I do think, based on what has been published, that you are a better candidate for this interview.

As I said in my last email, the presidential campaigns are under way here and I can’t leave the country until July. That is why I asked if you would consider coming to Mexico City for a couple of days to do the interview. An alternative could be some place like Cancun, which may be more fun for you and I could fly out and come back on the same day.

Let me know your thoughts. I’m sure we can find a way to make this happen.
Best regards,

Yuriria

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Email #8

April 12, 2012 

From: Toni Natalie

Dear Yuriria, Given the background of NXIVM and Keith Raniere I am sure you will understand my reluctance to travel to Mexico. I am not sure if you have seen the tape of him stating that “he has had people killed”, I would think I could be on the top of his list. I am still not sure why he doesn’t just move on and leave people alone, but it seems to be something he is not capable of doing. Barbara Bouchey may be happy to travel to Mexico as she has been doing a lot of traveling lately, and some of it out of the country, with that, I am sure she has a passport, something I do not have. I may consider a Skype interview depending on what your “piece” is about, or you are welcome to come to New York. Let me know.

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Email #9

Apr 20, 2012

From: Toni Natalie

Yuriria, I would be willing to speak to you on the phone and maybe be able to help you in that way with your story. If you want to set up a time to talk let me know….t

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Email #10

May 19, 2012 

From: Yuriria Sierra

Dear Ms. Natalie,

It has been a month since your last email and I’ve taken this time to think about the whole situation surrounding ESP/NXIVM. It is important for you to understand my perspective: I will not create an article or media segment unless it has some bite and illuminates an issue. If I do not find such an issue, I will not run a story. In this way you, and the dissenting voices against ESP/NXIVM, have an advantage. I will not run a non-controversial piece.

But with that said, as a professional investigative reporter, I need well documented facts. The media coverage of this issue so far has been one-sided, poorly written, insufficiently documented, and of a gossip nature at best. The video to which you direct me illustrates this: None of the people I know who have viewed it really believe Mr. Raniere is referring to ordering someone to be killed. Additionally, this video might easily be out of context. I would hurt my credibility if I presented such an excerpt without additional evidence.

The problem I am facing is this: In our country, Mr. Raniere is seen as having done many good things. The American media reports are seen as gossip because of questionable sources and presentation. This is made more difficult because the ESP/NXIVM sources appear reliable and straightforward, and the opposition appears evasive and seemingly dishonest (as an example, I find your inability to obtain a passport less than believable.) I had hoped to finally document thoroughly, from an investigative perspective, a true controversy. So far, the dissenting information I have is either heresay from upset ex-lovers and employees, unverifiable, evasive, or outright false. If I cannot obtain good information for your side, I will not run a story.

I have contacted a few other sources for this information and have only received one (1) reply. If you can, please give me something with which I can work.

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Email #11

May 20, 2012
From: Toni Natalie

Dear Yuriria,

After reading your last email I have a few questions for you, if you don’t mind.

I would like specific examples of the reporting that you believe is “unverifiable” or an out-right lie, omitting the video of Keith for now, based on the people that you say believe it could have been taken out of context.  What claims do you want to verify, and what in the way of documentation do you think I would have to assist in that task?

Who have you contacted so far? And who has contacted you back? What aspect of the NXIVM, Keith Raniere story do you find the most intriguing to you and your readers? And if you truly don’t believe any of the media coverage so far, most being negative, why wouldn’t you run a pro NXIVM piece and clear the NXIVM name for good and talk about all the “unverifiable” stories and shed a light on bad reporting ? Wouldn’t that in it’s self be controversial?

Considering that you seem to doubt all of the media coverage so far from little magazines/newspapers like Vanity Fair, Forbes, Village Voice, New York Post, and The Albany Times Union, just to name a few, would you be interested in continuing to research this story at all. And if you don’t mind I would like to know your thoughts on what reporting you suspect may be accurate or true and what you believe to be insufficiently documented. You did read the Albany Times Union story? It had a lot of links to court documents, unless they have taken them down, I haven’t check as of the time I write this email. Or maybe you don’t believe them to be real.

I would like to see the links to, or copies of, English translations of articles pertaining to NXIVM from Mexico-based news outlets if you could send them to me please.

It hard for me to understand why a journalist working for one of the largest media outlets in Mexico requires that a source to travel to Mexico City just to conduct an interview? Is your company incapable of paying for your travel to upstate New York were you could see and interview possible several sources at one time, and maybe get to meet Keith aka genius/Vanguard?,and maybe his side kick nurse Nancy? If the people of Mexico see Keith to be so doing so many good things he may invite you to a volleyball game, and you could meet some of the other girls, and judge for yourself. He may even take you on a walk.

I would like to repeat my offer to conduct an interview on Skype after answering my questions above. If not I have no reason to believe you to be sincere and not a plant for NXIVM at this point. If your not willing to either fly to upstate New York or at the very least make contact through Skype and prove to me that you are who you say you are then I guess all I have to say is waffles….

Respectfully, Tag your it

Toni Natalie

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There is a Yuriria Sierra who is a new journalist. To date, she has declined to comment on whether she sent the emails or not. It appears she is close to Emiliano Salinas.

Toni Natalie did not hear back from Miss Sierra again.

Frank Report is attempting to reach her.

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LA TRADUCCIÓN EN ESPAÑOL
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Primera vez publicado: correos electrónicos de presunto periodista invitando a Toni Natalie a México

  Toni Natalie había experimentado la vanguardia antes. No estaba ansiosa por experimentarlo en México.

En 2012, Toni Natalie fue invitada a México para ser entrevistada para una historia sobre NXIVM. En ese momento, algo parecía sospechoso a la señorita Natalie.

Más tarde, Kristin Keeffe reveló que la invitación era un complot de Keith Raniere para atraerla a México donde se esperaba una orden de arresto. Iba a ser recluida en una prisión mexicana. Keith Raniere quería destruirla.

A la luz de los correos electrónicos recientes, amenazando a los enemigos de Keith Raniere con detención en México, estos 2012 correos electrónicos vale la pena examinar. ¿fue esta una petición auténtica para una entrevista o fue Keith tratando de atraer a Toni a México para un propósito vengativo? Estos correos electrónicos nunca se han publicado antes.

Correo electrónico #1

22 de febrero de 2012

De: Yuriria Sierra <yuriria_sierra@hotmail.com>

Asunto: Hola (otra vez)

A: Toni Foley Estimada Sra. Natalie,

Te envié esta petición hace unos días, pero no tengo ninguna respuesta. Tal vez usted no lo ha leído, pero permítanme insistir en ello:

Mi nombre es Yuriria Sierra. Soy un periodista de la ciudad de México y estoy haciendo una investigación sobre varios programas de desarrollo humano y organizaciones que han florecido en México en los últimos años. Una de estas organizaciones es NXIVM, que ha sido particularmente exitosa en mi país con sus “programas de éxito ejecutivo”. Algunos conocidos míos incluso han tomado algunos de sus programas. Una cosa que todas estas organizaciones tienen en común es la controversia. Y parece que NXIVM ha tenido su parte justa de ella, aunque curiosamente, no así en México. Como he mirado a través de Internet para reunir información, su nombre ha surgido muchas veces en relación con NXIVM, y con su fundador Keith Raniere.
Estos son los artículos que encontré en Internet:

  • http://www.Forbes.com/Forbes/2003/1013/088.html
  • http://www.Observer.com/2010/Daily-transom/Poor-Little-Rich-Girls?Show=All
  • http://Metroland.net/back_issues/vol29_no32/Features.html

Al ser un antiguo Insider de NXIVM y haber estado involucrado personalmente con el Sr. Raniere, creo que su aporte sería muy valioso para esta pieza. Por favor, déjeme saber si esto es algo que le interese.

Tu verdad,

Yuriria

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Correo electrónico #2

Febrero 22, 2012 de: Toni Natalie

Yuriria, no recibí tu último email … Necesito un poco de experiencia en ti si no te importa, antes de hablar, (para quién trabajas, adelante una copia de parte de tu trabajo) de lo que me han dicho NXIVM controla a muchos de los medios de comunicación en México … Estoy muy interesada en ayudar a la gente de México a entender acerca de NXIVM y su fundador Keith Raniere y su compañera Nancy Salzman …. ir a la timeunion.com, voy a prólogo del pdf para que pueda ver la copia impresa del periódico …. t

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Correo electrónico #3

Febrero 23, 2012 de: Toni Natalie

Yuriria, estoy teniendo problemas con mi correo electrónico … por supuesto, por lo que no estoy seguro de si recibió mis últimos correos electrónicos y documentos …. Puedo ser alcanzado en 585-303-1484, si usted podría por favor Reenviarme cualquier fondo en usted que me haría más cómodo … gracias Toni

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Correo electrónico #4

1 de marzo

De: Yuriria Sierra

Estimada Sra. Natalie,

Gracias por su respuesta. He pasado por cambios inesperados de trabajo esta semana, así que me disculpo por mi demora en enviarte mi paradero. No tengo ninguna evidencia de que NXIVM tenga la presencia que usted piensa en los medios mexicanos. Sin embargo entiendo su preocupación. Trabajo para grupo imagen, uno de los principales grupos mediáticos de México. Hasta la semana pasada este fue mi programa de noticias de radio página web: http://www.imagen.com.mx/programa/yuriria_sierra/58/ahora estoy anclando un nuevo inwww. informe .com mx < http://www.reporte.com.mx >. También escribo en un periódico nacional www. Excelsior. mx < http://www.excelsior.com.mx > puede comprobar mi columna Quotidien en esta página web.

Visité la Página Web de Times Union como usted sugirió. Debo decir que también me interesó contactar con Barbara Bouchey. Sin embargo, por lo que he entendido, y para ser sincero, no me parece una fuente muy confiable o digna de confianza. Y dado que este es un asunto sensible al tiempo, y un horario muy ocupado en un año electoral aquí en México también, su respuesta realmente determinará si debo posponer este esfuerzo por el momento.

Hazme saber tus pensamientos y gracias de nuevo por tu email.

Yuriria

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Correo electrónico #5

Marzo 1, 2012 de: Toni Natalie

Hola Yuriria,

¿Estás planeando venir a los Estados Unidos para una entrevista o sólo quieres hablar por teléfono? …. Toni

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 Correo electrónico #6

Marzo 23, 2012 de: Yuriria Sierra

Hola de nuevo,
Hago apollogyse para esta respuesta tardía; Estos han sido días imposible debido a las toneladas de trabajo que he estado enfrentando. Desafortunadamente, soy incapaz de viajar a los Estados Unidos (o en cualquier otro lugar) en estos días, porque como usted probablemente sabe que hay un proceso electoral en mi país. Por lo tanto, como un programa de televisión y radio achor es bastante imposible omitir mis emisiones hasta el mes de agosto. Estaba pensando, en cambio, que probablemente estarías interesada en viajar a la ciudad de México para tener una charla conmigo. ¿te parece posible?

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Correo electrónico #7

10 de abril de 2012

De: Yuriria Sierra

Estimada Sra. Natalie,

No sé si recibiste mi último correo. Expresé una vez más mi interés en entrevistarte por la obra que estoy haciendo. Aunque hay otras personas que podría entrevistar en relación con NXIVM (Barbara Bouchey es mi próxima elección), de lo que se ha publicado creo, basado en lo que se ha publicado, que usted es un mejor candidato para esta entrevista.

Como dije en mi último correo electrónico, las campañas presidenciales están en marcha y no puedo dejar el país hasta julio. Por eso le pregunté si consideraría venir a la ciudad de México por un par de días para hacer la entrevista. Una alternativa podría ser un lugar como Cancún, que puede ser más divertido para usted y yo podría volar y volver el mismo día.

Hazme saber tus pensamientos. Estoy seguro de que podemos encontrar una manera de hacer que esto suceda.
Saludos

Yuriria

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Correo electrónico #8

Abril 12, 2012 de: Toni Natalie

Estimado Yuriria, dado el trasfondo de NXIVM y Keith Raniere estoy seguro de que entenderá mi reticencia a viajar a México. No estoy seguro de si usted ha visto la cinta de él diciendo que “él ha matado a la gente”, yo pensaría que podría estar en la parte superior de su lista. Todavía no estoy seguro de por qué no sólo se mueve y deja a la gente sola, pero parece ser algo que no es capaz de hacer. Barbara Bouchey puede estar feliz de viajar a México como ella ha estado haciendo un montón de viajar últimamente, y algunos de ellos fuera del país, con eso, estoy seguro de que tiene un pasaporte, algo que no tengo. Puedo considerar una entrevista de Skype dependiendo de lo que su “pedazo ” se trata, o usted es Bienvenido a venir a Nueva York. Déjeme saber.

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Correo electrónico #9

Apr 20, 2012

De: Toni Natalie

Yuriria, yo estaría dispuesto a hablar con usted por teléfono y tal vez ser capaz de ayudarle de esa manera con su historia. Si desea configurar un tiempo para hablar, déjeme saber ….

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Correo electrónico #10

Mayo 19, 2012 de: Yuriria Sierra

Querida Sra. Natalie,

Ha sido un mes desde su último correo electrónico y he tomado este tiempo para pensar en toda la situación que rodea ESP/NXIVM. Es importante que entienda mi perspectiva: no crearé un artículo o segmento de medios a menos que tenga algo de mordida e ilumine un problema. Si no encuentro tal problema, no voy a publicar una historia. De esta manera usted, y las voces discrepantes contra ESP/NXIVM, tienen una ventaja. No voy a ejecutar una pieza no controvertida.

Pero con eso dicho, como un reportero de investigación profesional, necesito hechos bien documentados. La cobertura mediática de este tema hasta ahora ha sido unilateral, pobremente escrita, insuficientemente documentada, y de una naturaleza chismosa en el mejor de los casos. El video al que me diriges ilustra esto: ninguna de las personas que conozco que lo han visto realmente cree que el Señor Raniere se refiere a ordenar que alguien sea asesinado. Además, este vídeo puede ser fácilmente fuera de contexto. Lastimaría mi credibilidad si presentara tal extracto sin evidencia adicional.

El problema al que me enfrento es este: en nuestro país, el Sr. Raniere es visto como haber hecho muchas cosas buenas. Los informes mediáticos norteamericanos se consideran chismes debido a fuentes y presentaciones dudosas. Esto se hace más difícil porque las fuentes de ESP/NXIVM parecen fiables y directas, y la oposición parece evasiva y aparentemente deshonesta (como ejemplo, me parece que su incapacidad para obtener un pasaporte menos que creíble.) Esperaba finalmente documentar a fondo, desde una perspectiva de investigación, una verdadera polémica. Hasta ahora, la información disidente que tengo es o Heresay de los ex-amantes y empleados molestos, inverificable, evasivo o falso. Si no puedo obtener buena información para su lado, no voy a ejecutar una historia.

He contactado algunas otras fuentes para esta información y sólo he recibido una (1) respuesta. Si puedes, por favor dame algo con lo que pueda trabajar.

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Correo electrónico #11

20 de mayo de 2012
De: Toni Natalie

Estimado Yuriria,

Después de leer su último correo electrónico tengo algunas preguntas para usted, si no le importa.

Me gustaría ejemplos específicos de la información que usted cree que es “inverificable ” o una mentira fuera de derecha, omitiendo el video de Keith por ahora, basado en la gente que usted dice creer que podría haber sido tomada fuera de contexto.  ¿qué reclamos desea verificar, y qué en el camino de la documentación cree usted que tendría que asistir en esa tarea?

¿con quién has contactado hasta ahora? ¿y quién te ha contactado de vuelta? ¿Qué aspecto de la NXIVM, Keith Raniere historia se encuentra el más intrigante para usted y sus lectores? Y si usted realmente no cree ninguna de la cobertura de los medios hasta ahora, la mayoría de ser negativo, ¿por qué no ejecutar una pieza Pro NXIVM y borrar el nombre de NXIVM para el bien y hablar de todos los “inverificables” historias y arrojar una luz sobre los malos informes? ¿no sería eso en sí mismo ser controvertido?

Teniendo en cuenta que usted parece dudar de toda la cobertura de los medios de comunicación tan lejos de las pequeñas revistas y periódicos como Vanity Fair, Forbes, aldea de la voz, New York Post, y el Albany Times Union, por nombrar algunos, ¿estaría interesado en seguir investigando esta historia en? todos. Y si no le importa, me gustaría saber sus pensamientos sobre lo que el informe que sospeche que puede ser exacto o verdadero y lo que usted cree que está insuficientemente documentado. ¿leíste la historia de la Unión de Albany Times? Tenía un montón de enlaces a los documentos de la corte, a menos que les han quitado, no he comprobar como de la vez que escribo este correo electrónico. O tal vez no creas que son reales.

Me gustaría ver los enlaces a, o copias de, traducciones en Inglés de artículos pertenecientes a NXIVM de México-basado en medios de noticias si pudiera enviarlos a mí por favor.

¿es difícil para mí entender por qué un periodista que trabaja para uno de los medios de comunicación más grandes en México requiere que una fuente para viajar a la ciudad de México sólo para llevar a cabo una entrevista? ¿es su empresa incapaz de pagar por su viaje a Nueva York del norte se podía ver y entrevistar a varias fuentes posibles a la vez, y tal vez llegar a conocer a Keith aka Genius/Vanguard?, ¿y tal vez su lado patada enfermera Nancy? Si la gente de México ve a Keith para hacer tantas cosas buenas que puede invitarle a un juego de voleibol, y usted podría conocer a algunas de las otras chicas, y juzgar por sí mismo. Puede que incluso te lleve a caminar.

Me gustaría repetir mi oferta para realizar una entrevista en Skype después de responder a mis preguntas arriba. Si no no tengo ninguna razón para creer que usted sea sincero y no una planta para NXIVM en este punto. Si tu no quieres volar al norte de Nueva York o al menos hacer contacto a través de Skype y probarme que eres quien dices que eres entonces supongo que todo lo que tengo que decir es gofres ….

Respetuosamente, etiquete su

Toni Natalie

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  Hay un Yuriria Sierra que es un nuevo periodista. Hasta la fecha, ella se ha negado a comentar si ella envió los correos electrónicos o no. Parece que está cerca de Emiliano Salinas.

Toni Natalie no escuchó de nuevo de la señorita Sierra.

Frank Informe está tratando de llegar a ella.

6 thoughts on “First time published: Emails from purported journalist inviting Toni Natalie to Mexico (VÉASE ABAJO PARA LA TRADUCCIÓN EN ESPAÑOL)

  1. I wonder if Sierra knew who she was working for whilst doing this. My guess is no she didn’t. Likely she was given 1/8 of the story and thought she was doing a good thing by trying to lure Natalie into Mexico. More often than not Raniere does not tell his co-conspiratories what they are actually participating in. I’d like to see another article about what kind of person Sierra is. Is she the kind to put innocent women in harm’s way under fraudulent allegations? Or is she perhaps sucked in by the charisma of Emiliano Salinas? Perhaps they even enjoy some time in bed…

    • Anyone can get an Hotmail account with any name. These messages were probably from a conspirator, not Sierra. The real Sierra would have used a business email address.

  2. Below is part of a taped conversation between Barbara Bouchey and Kristen Keeffe after Keeffe left NXIVM. Keeffe was Raniere’s right-hand woman who worked on all NXIVM legal cases up until she left Keith Raniere and NXIVM. Keeffe was one of Raniere’s closest confidants for twenty-five years and gave birth to his firstborn son. Keith Raniere shared some of his deepest “darkest” secrets with her.
    The below part of their conversation talks about Keith Raniere, and Emiliano Salinas attempted plot to get four women to Mexico, have them arrested on false charges, thrown into prison and tortured and never to be heard of again by anyone (killed) for Keith Raniere’s believes.
    What is going on with Alex Betancourt is not a new tactic for Keith Raniere or Emiliano Salinas, they have just brought in a new partner in crime. Alex has joined their plot to bring Americans and possible Canadians across the Mexican border to imprison them (for 36 hours, yeah right). We all know they will disappear off the face of the earth. Oops, they must have committed suicide in the prison cell last night.
    No worries, another thing to report to the Feds Keith Raniere, Emiliano Salinas and Alex Betancourt. You might have the Feds in NY in your pocket, but the United States is might big.
    ________________________________________________________________________________
    Barbara: It’s big, Kristin.
    Kristin: It’s big. It’s fucking big! And, so now I have a final thing, which has to do with the plot, the Mexican plot. Barbara: I remember Toni calling me, you know, we didn’t talk a lot, but once in a while, every three or four months, we’d have a little chat. But, I remember this one time calling saying, “Are you getting phone calls from this Mexican journalist?” I said, “We have gotten some, but I hadn’t actually connected with the person.” And, she says, “She wants me to come down. I’m not fucking going to Mexico, what are they fucking crazy?” Kristin: So, here’s thing. You and Toni—and possibly Susan was probably getting calls too cause they were after Susan and Kim as well. You can’t imagine the importance of the evidence of these communications that this journalist was contacting you guys, because she was contacting you, if you recall, to go down to Mexico for an anti-cult conference, correct? Do you remember that?
    Barbara: Yeah, Toni told me that part of it. I didn’t hear that part of it, but Toni told me.
    Kristin: It was an anti-cult conference. Here is what Keith and Emiliano did: they bribed a Judge in Mexico to issue an indictment against you, and Toni, and Susan, and Kim. They were at different times considering adding Rick Ross and Joe O’Hara but then Joe got arrested, and all these other people. Then Keith wheedled it down to just being the four of you. You were going to be lured into Mexico, and when you got to Mexico, they were going to put you in fucking prison. You should see the emails!
    Barbara: Were they really? How serious were they?
    Kristin: They were serious as a fucking heart attack. I saw the Judge’s decision. Keith helped write it, and there were issues about Emiliano translating it. He worked on this for years. Fucking years. This was like a three plus year plot in the making.
    Barbara: Wow. Wow.
    Kristin: And, the only reason they didn’t go forward with it was because when the journalist started contacting you guys, and Toni was the only one that responded, and there wasn’t strong response – simultaneous to the lack of strong response – the police opened the probe into the computer trespass. So, Keith downgraded the plot to have you guys thrown in prison where he expected you to be raped and rot. And, he thought that the pressure would be so bad that Toni would turn on everybody and say whatever she had to, to get out. Cause he was like, “Barbara will go down with the ship” and like, “Barbara’s never going to lie, but Toni will.” That was his strategy, and his belief. And, they were going to put you in a miserable, horrible, violent, vile place.
    Barbara: Right.
    Kristin: And, the email, what happened was that Keith and Emiliano did this whole thing through a fucking Gmail account.
    Kristin: Yeah, cause I think that was an email address they had just set up and what they would do was communicate by writing drafts. Like, they would both log on and communicate.
    Barbara: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Kristin: Here’s the other thing, Keith didn’t realize until the Edward Snowden thing came out about the NSA, what he realized later was that they save fucking everything. And, those emails are going to be in that account, even the drafts.
    Barbara: So, the drafts even if you don’t save the draft, and you delete them, it gets stored?
    Barbara: Oh, I didn’t know that.
    Kristin: It gets stored on the Gmail server and uploaded to the government.
    Barbara: Okay, got it.
    Kristin: The Gmail server does the auto save.
    Barbara: Yeah, that’s right, it does.
    Kristin: So, this is going to be harder to prove because of the complexity of getting it. But, I believe that you and Toni, and possibly even Susan and Kim have a basis to look into this, because of the communications from the journalist. Why the fuck was this journalist contacting you?
    Barbara: Right, well, I have emails.
    Kristin: You have emails. Perfect.
    Barbara: I mean, there were two different journalists that contacted me from Mexico. And, I mean I keep everything,
    Kristin, honest to God. Kristin: Do you understand…
    Barbara: Yeah
    Kristin: The plot itself, proves why, and gives a valid basis for not disclosing the source. And, at least, I believe the communications from the Mexican journalists are enough to provide a basis for it to be investigated even without having a witness to attest to it. But, here’s the thing, Barbara that is why I’m in fucking hiding. I mean that is why I’ve had to take these extraordinary measures before I could get involved in this. Because, it’s fucking black. This was serious shit.
    Barbara: Right.
    Kristin: I mean, this was when I was sub-rosa. I mean, in my mind, you can’t imagine, you don’t know how many stupid walks I did with Keith where he’s saying these things and I’m saying, “oh, that’s a great idea,” but in my mind I’m thinking, he’s a madman.
    Barbara: Yeah, I know.
    Kristin: You know? Because, I knew. But, I learned from experience that the way I’m going to get him is by playing along until I have so much that I could crush him. But, even when I left, I had to protect myself first, before I could admit back. It takes time to get all this shit together.
    Barbara: Do you have a prediction of what you think, how this will go down for Keith? Do you think that we’ll be able to hold him accountable? Kristin: Yes, I do. And, I think he will be thoroughly and utterly destroyed, and if he doesn’t leave the country, then he’s going to, ultimately going to, end up in arrest and indictments, and some serious shit for everyone, and everyone involved. Him, Nancy, Clare, and Emiliano especially. Barbara: Right. Kristin: And, you know what? I gave them fair fucking warning. If they’re not getting their own attorneys to isolate separate themselves from Keith, then they deserve what they get. You know what I am saying?

    You can find the complete conversation as filed as a court document People v BB 2015 Hayes Letter Prosecutor Keeffe Transcript posted on Ross Cult Educational web
    site https://www.culteducation.com/group/907-nxivm/28865-transcript-filed-in-people-nys-vs-barbara-bouchey-ind-no-34-7323.html

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