Editor’s note: Our friend Bangkok makes some interesting points about the future of Nxivm. His post is in response to Monterrey Mexico Nxivm Center Closed and Is Vacant, wherein it was speculated that the remaining Nxivm leaders, Clare Bronfman, AKA Legatus, Omar ‘Cuckie’ Boone, Jimena Garza, Edgar Boone, Vanessa Sahagun and others [i.e. Nicki Clyne] will revive Nxivm once the media furor dies down.
Frank is bullshitting us again.
How can you say that NXIVM is hoping to begin recruiting again once the media scandal dies down?
That’s a crock of shit, bro.
Recruiting from where?
Under a rock on Mars where people haven’t yet heard about their PERVERTED LEADER doing life in prison?
In case you haven’t noticed, the man they WORSHIP before & after every single NXIVM class is in prison for many years.
Vanguard’s whole persona has been etched into every NXIAN’s mind.
Thus, Vanguard cannot be separated from the tech.
The remaining NXIANS can’t just remove Keith’s name from their teachings and pretend he doesn’t exist.
Cuz every cult NEEDS A LEADER that will be WORSHIPED.
There’s nobody else who fits that description.
Vanguard, Prefect, Salinas and Betancourt are gone.
Pimp Mack is gone.
Ain’t nobody gonna worship Legatus, that’s for damn sure.
Plus Keith would NEVER approve of others replacing him in the organization.
They won’t turn against Keith EVER. Their loyalty to Keith will prevent them from replacing Keith with a new leader.
…And they can’t lionize Keith and make him a martyr for new recruits.
Cuz he’s a convicted PEDOPHILE and SEX SLAVER.
Keith’s perverted emails were made public and he can’t EVER recover the respect he once held. That stuff is on the Internet and can’t be hidden from future recruits.
Even DOS cannot be revived.
Cuz DOS revolved around being a life-long slave of Rodent Keith.
DOS didn’t revolve around anything else.
They can’t continue recruiting people into DOS if there’s no male grandmaster to fuck the slaves.
Without a grandmaster it’s just a group of heterosexual gals pretending to be dykes while doing silly readiness drills at 2:00am, while waiting 25 years for Grandpa Keith to be released with his 85 year old, limp pecker.
Most of those gals will want to get some fresh dick before then.
NXIVM is finished.
There’s just no path forward.
I challenge anybody with common sense (i.e., Heidi and Niceguy excluded) to present facts which prove me wrong.
[…] This is in response to Ain’t Nobody Gonna Worship Legatus, That’s for Damn Sure […]
Yes, I actually read your musings, rantings, and ravings.
You possess a most interesting and unique perspective …..
…….What exactly is your point?
Bangkok you continue to amaze me….
……You actually contradict yourself within your own OPEd essay several times(more than three).
“Most of those gals will want to get some fresh dick before then.” Bangkok
“Limp dick” Bangkok
Bangkok you seem to be obsessed with penis(dick) so much so that it must be on your mind a considerable amount of time.
Bangkok you should download the app Grinder™ to your smartphone. Then you can have all of the cock, penis, and dick you crave.
Bangkok you never mention vagina.
Is vagina like kryptonite for you?
You went off on this whole line of thought.. but missed the part where it was stated about “hoping” to recruit.. Doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to work out well for them. Plus I consider it slightly short-sighted to overlook that Keith was recently caught with a cell phone, likely still pretending he controls something and giving orders. So it could theoretically be said that Keith wouldn’t be replaced, but better hidden. Which is what he tried his damndest to do last time. Just for another perspective on a conversation about things that will likely not be irrefutably proven any time soon, if at all.
The new NXIVM probably won’t use Raniere’s name and will change the organization’s name. Amway has had a lot more information online regarding what a scam it is since the dawn of the internet, yet it has been around for 60 years. Amway even tried to change the name to Quixtar in North America from 1999 until a two-year phase out from 2007-2009, and people are still getting scammed.
What a lot of people don’t understand is there are 4-5 million people who turn 18 years old every single year. This means their biggest concern when they were 17 is popping the zits on their face and one year later they are prime targets for Amway and other MLM scams, and will be targets of the new NXIVM as well. Just because you know something doesn’t mean that everyone knows it as well, and MLM scams preach to stay away from the internet, as it is filled with garbage, which is true, except there is also good and accurate information available, such as my websites. In fact, the new NXIVM can use Raniere as the scapegoat and claim their philosophy is good and beneficial, he just screwed up, but now he’s gone so everything is okay.
That’s a good point about the large number of young people just starting to learn about life, who provide scammers of various sorts with a continual stream of potential marks and victims.
But particularly when it comes to belief, groups and the types of groups that attract young people change from generation to generation; fads and fashions come and go. Baby boomer era groups like Scientology that had people lined up at their doors in the 60s and early 70s, now can hardly recruit at all, and certain whole sub-types like wandering Jesus followers and communes essentially vanished.
I think that any successful NXIVM offshoot would almost have to be something that reconstituted itself very differently, going further than just distancing themselves from Raneire. For example, the only really successful offshoot of Scientology is Avatar, which went from being focused on cathartic individual sessions (Scientology’s “auditing,” similar to NXIVM’s “EM”s) to short but similarly psychologically intense large group trainings (a step beyond NXIVM’s “intensives”) – and curiously enough, it’s also a product of upstate New York, and I suspect it is a likely conduit for some of the Scientology that made its way into NXIVM.
I doubt that NXIVM will survive given the numerous problems it faces from the loss of its whole upper leadership to the seizure of its training materials, but that’s not to say we shouldn’t be vigilant for some sort of re-emergence – possibly in an almost unrecognizable form.
The internet has helped as well. NXIVM was never very large.
The only hope for a Nx revival is if Kristin Kreuk dons leather and lace and turns it into a BDSM club.
But she better hurry. Her cute looks are fading fast and in a couple years she could be in a Lifetime Nx movie, cast as Clare Bear.
“But she better hurry. Her cute looks are fading fast ”
New dumb actresses and actors are being grown all of the time.
Want a logical argument to prove you wrong, Bangkok? Here it is:
Think about it. Bernie is pushing a socialist economic agenda. But has any person who immigrated from a socialist country ever come forth to back Bernie? None that I ever heard of. Conversely, every person that I have ever spoken with who came from those countries are sure to tell you that socialism makes everyone equally poor!
But yet thousands of people will mindlessly cast a ballot for a socialist, even when they have people living near them who fled those countries for the opportunities in the US.
Unfortunately, there is a significant number of people in the country who are dumber than a box of rocks or just plain lazy. And therefore, we will unfortunately find people who will gladly join NXIVM…even after all that has happened.
That’s actually a version of a fallacious strawman argument. I’m no fan of socialism in any form, but you’re failing to make the distinction between Western European democratic socialism – which produces conditions favorable enough (high happiness indexes, long life span) that people from those countries rarely emigrate to the US – and the Eastern European and Asian authoritarian socialism that results in significant numbers of people fleeing. The inability to conveniently find anecdotal evidence, is not itself proof of anything.
You may want to brush up:
That’s a great site with information about logical flaws and fallacies that are all too easy to fall in to. I recommend it to my students and audiences.
My son took one of anony’s classes. I think it was spank 101. Our son no longer can see.
Thanks for the example of culty thinking from the cheap seats.
American politics seem to be driven entirely by hate. From the outside it looks completely insane.
“American politics seem to be driven entirely by hate. From the outside it looks completely insane.”
STFU!!!! YOU GOD DAMN FOOL!!!!!
(Just kidding) 😉
But I have never seen any of those logical fallacies presented in the comments or the articles posted here. Therefore, if I haven’t noticed them, they obviously do not exist.
That should say AnonyMaker, not anonymous maker.
But do any of these so-called western socialist nations have minimum wage laws? Actually, these countries all have high taxes to support their generous welfare systems. They are capitalist economies nonetheless. Still not buying into any socialist economic agenda, AnonyMaker. A pig with lipstick is still…just a pig.
If you think “so-called western socialist nations” are really “capitalist economies” then what are you afraid of?
You seem to be falling for Trump’s fear mongering, sayin “socialism” and making his followers think “communism.”
Bernie’s wife is capitalist. You should read about how his wife bankrupted a college by handing out construction contracts and then had the balls to take a huge severance package payout. LOL
Left or Right or Independent. all politicians are corrupt. Politics attracts nothing but narcissistic people.
A Capitalist democracy is the only form of governmental organization that works despite politicians and corrupt bureaucrats.
Capitalism is the only economic system that actually works long term.
Right you are! For many, it’s all about greed and power, whether its private citizens, companies or governments.
As long as they keep brewing good IPA’s!
IPA’s true that !!!
1.) “Ain’t nobody gonna worship Legatus, that’s for damn sure.”
Agreed on Legatus.
It’s a miracle that people worshiped that Putz Keith Raniere.
2.) “Plus Keith would NEVER approve of others replacing him in the organization.”
Keith Raniere is irrelevant.
He will fall down the Memory Hole.
The day Raniere fled to Mexico he lost control of NXIVM.
The day Raniere was arrested in Puerto Vallarta he died.
3.) “They won’t turn against Keith EVER. Their loyalty to Keith will prevent them from replacing Keith with a new leader.
…And they can’t lionize Keith and make him a martyr for new recruits.”
They’ve already thrown Keith Raniere under the bus.
Keith Raniere is the Fallen Angel.
Keith Raniere is the Luciferian.
4.) “Cuz he’s a convicted PEDOPHILE and SEX SLAVER.”
Unfortunately the US DOJ has failed to prosecute anyone else in NXIVM for pedophilia and sex slavery.
Unless new charges are brought in the NDNY against other NXIVM members only Raniere will be a convicted Pedophile and Sex Slaver.
At this point let me add that there are numerous people in NXIVM who are complicit in pedophilia and sex slavery and can and should be prosecuted. Not just Keith Raniere.
5.) “Without a grandmaster it’s just a group of heterosexual gals pretending to be dykes while doing silly readiness drills at 2:00am, while waiting 25 years for Grandpa Keith to be released with his 85 year old, limp pecker.
Most of those gals will want to get some fresh dick before then.”
Bangkok, you miss the entire point of NXIVM DOS.
Any sex cult with only one male and numerous females will eventually evolve into a Lesbian sex cult.
And FYI there are devices that allow women to receive pleasure without a male phallus.
But the trolls behind NXIVM already have a replacement picked out.
Whoever the new Vanguard is has to be charismatic, articulate and photogenic.
Who better to replace the World’s Third Smartest Man than the World’s Third Smartest Woman?
The Nexian who runs the Allison Mack tribute page clearly designates who the new NXIVM leader is:
❤❤❤ #allisonmack #chloesullivan #smallville #powergirl #inspiration #beautiful #gorgeous #amazingwoman #greatactress #blessed #caring #gentlesoul #unique #extraordinary #exceptional #angelic #heavensent #captivating #majestic #devine #freeallison #goddess #queen #phenomenalwoman #intelligent #compassionate #hero
Who better to rule the NXIVM drones than a Goddess and a Queen?
And there are examples of cults run by women.
Example 1.) Ramtha
Example 2.) Church of the 4 Square Gospel, a Los Angeles church run by Aimee Semple McPherson.
Aimee Semple McPherson
AIMEE SEMPLE MCPHERSON – American Masters (plus sermon)
I also think its highly unlikely that NXIVM will gain new followers now. This DOS group was only a very small sub-group anyways, so why keep talking about it, Bangcock? One might get the impression that you just like talking about Keith’s old limp cock….
DOS without ‘Vanguard’ is without any purpose, and has no long-term future.
NXIVM may limp along as a tiny group of diehards dedicated to preserving the ‘Tech’ he stole from Scientology and NLP.
There will be no new recruits.
His child abuse program known as The Rainbow Cultural Garden is more of a problem though, as it could easily be renamed and moved.
It could also be sold to people without any reference to Raniere.
It’s a good point that NXIVM has lost its charismatic and even revered leader – Frank’s piece about Raniere’s hagiography gets to the importance in the dynamics of these types of groups, of having a guru who can be put on a pedestal – and that there aren’t a good candidates to take over the role and keep things going.
There might be Jack Levy in one Mexican center. But my guess is that he’s more likely to just take any remaining followers in some new direction – and that way he gets to be the leader himself, and doesn’t have to send money “uplines.”
That points to another problem that hasn’t been considered with respect to how NXIVM might carry on, if at all; in other examples such as Scientology, there’s often long-simmering resentment about upper-level management that seems to be misguided and greedy (typically those around the guru are assumed to be to blame, even though the top figure if actually responsible), and so there may be more of an impetus for remaining diehards to splinter off. Plus the remaining dedicated members are stuck with the problem of trying to rationalize some effort to hang on to the “good”; scapegoating the Albany-based headquarters would provide a way to lay blame without questioning the “tech” itself (a similar dynamic is often at work in Scientology splinter groups).
Plus there’s also currently the problem of rights to use NXIVM’s intellectual property, which has been seized by the government – I’m not sure how, if at all, that affects things in Mexico. Ultimately I expect that Clare Bronfman may buy the rights back, unless she undergoes a jailhouse conversion to some other sect, but as we see here a scenario that ends up with her in charge is not exactly promising.