Peter Longworth has a lot to say about almost everything, and his perspectives are always thoughtful. Here he waxes on the odd circumstances in a civil lawsuit that sees Sarah Edmondson, who recruited Nicki Clyne into NXIVM, suing her for the evils associated with NXIVM and its subsidiary DOS.
By Peter Longworth
Thank you, Aristotle, for your post Edmondson Has Legal Grounds to Sue Clyne. You made some interesting observations. I always love your posts, but I don’t always entirely agree with them.
I believe I’m right in saying Nicki Clyne didn’t actively recruit Edmondson into DOS.
Kristin Kreuk, Sarah Edmondson and Nicki Clyne, three Vancouver actresses in NXIVM. Kreuk quit quietly, Edmondson became a whistleblower, and Clyne remains loyal to her master, Keith Raniere.
If I’m not mistaken, that would have been Lauren Salzman. For reasons unclear, Lauren, like her mother, Nancy, are somewhat surprisingly, given their positions in NXIVM, not being sued.
Nancy and Lauren Salzman are not defendants in the civil lawsuit.
I’m also not sure we can claim Clyne was spreading the lie that Keith Raniere wasn’t behind DOS either:
It’s not as if Clyne went round all newly recruited slaves and whispered in their ear: “Just in case you thought KAR is our Grand Master, he’s definitely not behind this.”
She may have described it as a sorority, but in her mind that was exactly what it was. It sounds a bit twisted to us, but I’m sure it WAS all about women’s empowerment.
The brand was described as a symbol of the four elements.
MK10ART’s ‘Smart Brand.’ Yes, it was pretty smart of Keith Raniere to allow his first line slaves to create a brand with his initials, and authorize them to lie to their slave recruits that the brand was the symbol of the four elements.
In a non-DOS related matter, this young lady was told her brand was the symbol of the four seasons…. But when she looked in the mirror and saw it in reverse, she realized it was not.
Four elements? Turn it 90 degrees counter clockwise and what do you get?
Regarding the brand, Clyne would say: “It kind of…sort of…represented the elements; we just tweaked it a little to honor our Master.” And that’s kind of the problem: in Clyne’s eyes, there’re not lies.
Clyne may well reject the victim label, simply because she doesn’t see herself as one: she’s so far gone fishing, she’s living in an alternate reality of philosophy and mysticism, and all the other weird stuff that was force fed into them in countless EMs, some of them probably given by Sarah herself!
And this went on for about 10 years of the most formative stage in her life, when she was most susceptible to it.
Nicki Clyne’s wedding photo. She wed Allison Mack in February 2017. The two remain married.
I would agree that everybody in the cult was responsible for harming everyone else. That sense of community subverts individuation and reinforces a common belief system. Just think about the crowds in Kim Il-sung Square crying torrents of tears as they listen to their ‘Dear Leader’ speak for hour after hour. As you say, it’s the cult members who fuck each other over, and we see that in many autocracies all over the world.
Strange as it may seem, I think Clyne might perhaps have a stronger case against Edmondson: if Edmondson’s motives were purely mercenary, it could be argued that she willfully and cynically recruited innocent people into something she consciously believed was exploitative and addictive, a little like a dealer pushing drugs.
And just like long-term substance abuse, people get addicted to something that will likely cause them long-term damage.
Clyne’s defense is that she genuinely holds her beliefs and values, and just like in a murder trial where the evidence proves the defendant committed the crime, they may still be innocent by reason of insanity.
Nicki Clyne enjoys a kiss with her master, Keith Alan Raniere.
I’m not saying she’s insane, but her intent to cause harm could be called into question, given the ongoing stress and manipulation she’s been exposed to, as well as the undoubted psychological impact it has had, and still has.
It just takes one juror to reach that conclusion.
Exactly the same case could be made for Allison Mack, and in her case, she is the one who got away. I suspect she will back up Clyne, while rationally and convincingly explaining to a jury how powerful the indoctrination was.
Will we see the trial going forward? My money’s still on Clyne’s dismissal, though there is a possibility it may be without prejudice.
Some new MK10ART paintings. See all her work at https://www.instagram.com/mk10art/
Clare Bronfman gets out of prison in two and a half years
Toni Fly and Keith Raniere
KR brand donuts
MDC dancing, a movement to change society, called the Forgotten Ones.
BOP director Colette S. Peters with the smartest adult in custody she will ever be privileged to house….
In beautiful Portugal, an unhappy triangle exists, with Sara Bronfman and her new kept Portuguese lover, as kept hubby is on the outside looking in…
I don’t know why, but only one of the deluded dancers actually provokes pure sympathy in me, and that’s Michele. Maybe because she is black and allowed white people to brand her. I’m in a mixed relationship, we have mixed race kids. So the implication of that whole being a slave thing just resonates in me different.
Part of me hopes Michele never wakes up, because perhaps reality might just pin her to the floor unable to move.
And part of me wants to hold her up and say open your eyes, ears and heart. Stop searching for something that is already inherently in you. Your being, your soul. There are no gurus. Just strangers we haven’t met yet.
Nicki is just a victim of her own stupidity. The NXIVM inner circle member whose job as tweeter continues to tweet, retweet and like other tweets that she thinks are related to whatever cause will make her shared boyfriend look like a victim even though there are no ultimate victims according to his own philosoquackery. For example, she thinks that by filling her tweet timeline with anything related to subjects like possible corruption of individuals at the FBI or in the legal system, or some women falsely accusing men, or some prisoners suffering from bad prison conditions, that these will somehow make these things magically apply to her master and free him. This delusional cult thinking is the same as that displayed by anyone who believed that Keith Raniere was an ethical guru, genius problem solver who was going to solve their own problems, let alone bring a utopia to this world, when he was obviously still just a horny teenage boy trapped inside a mini-man’s body, dreaming of tapping as much ass as possible. I used to not believe in “brainwashing”, but Nicki, Eduardo, Marc, the other Dossier Project girls, and any other remaining narcissistic defenders who are all under the spell that they are engaging in some moralistic crusade (but just sound like broken records every time they talk about the FBI planting evidence, the 17,000 people who took NXIVM courses and the like) which NXIVM “programmed” into them for so many years and became even bigger now because the beloved head of their movement is now under “attack”, exhibit all of the signs of its possible reality.
I agree with so much of what you say. There’s no doubt that the their indoctrination has had deep and long lasting psychological consequences for all of them. As I watched the podcast with Marc and Ethan, what struck me most was how un-self-aware Marc clearly was: he just didn’t realise he was being played until near the end, when almost from the get-go it was clear from Ethan’s body language that he was taking him for a ride. Marc’s extreme naivety was even more evident in his decision to go for the interview in the first place, not even having done any basic due diligence on Ethan’s background.
Nicki shares much of this naivity: simplistic notions of the “MSM narrative” and the conspiratorial agendas of federal agencies belie a pandering to rightwing stereotyping one would expect from a disaffected youngster, or an older person with limited education. What they both have in common is subscription to an idealised NXIVM doctrine, where “the world needs saving” and we are going to rebuild it brick by brick. Do they understand politics? No – their politics suck. Do they understand even basic economics? No – they haven’t a clue. Do they understand how the world works? Definitely not – they have little/no interest.
They’ve spent nearly all their adult life listening to a guy with a sinister agenda, but whose ‘charisma’ and manipulative abilities suppressed any genuine curiosity they may have had by replacing it with his own warped orthodoxy. They were skilfully taught to question things in the precise way that he wanted, and were invariably led to preconceived ideas about the nature of life, e.g. spoiled and entitled women who must “learn to have agency” (DOS), that agency of course being subservience to polyamorous men, the heroic ubermenschen who would show them the way (SOP).
When all the famous crazy NXVIUM girls get out of their sentences, maybe they should open up a branding/tattoo parlor? Then make a reality show called Keeping up with the NXVIUMS. They’d probably make a killing.
It seems they all
a few different kinds of killings.
I’d definitely give that one a go!
Sorry, but this is all so trivial.
Sure, I care about Nicki Clyne and Sarah Edmondson and we should all be glad they’re still around and able to sue each other, I guess … but, um … why does no one seem to care anymore about the Nxivm victims who lost their lives?
Everything Nicki and Sarah happily and unhappily endured with and or because of each other is a thing, but Kristen Snyder who maybe did or maybe didn’t write: “I was brainwashed and my emotional center of the brain was killed/turned off. I still have feeling in my external skin, but my internal organs are rotting. Please contact my parents … if you find me or this note. I am sorry life, I didn’t know I was already dead. May we persist into the future.” still matters, right? What in the actual Hell happened to Kristen?
Billionaire money financed Kristin Snyder’s death in one way or another. Then billionaire money bought lawfare to try to silence those who knew too much.
Kristen’s death wasn’t the only Nxivm death … and then came the branding of the slaves, of course.
Oh, and … “NXIVM and others wanted to focus on Ross’ role in the Kristen Snyder case and were concerned that if he was successful on the certiorari petition to the United States Supreme Court he would publish everything, which presumably may include his perspective on Snyder’s death.”
Oh, and … “Synder’s sister Kim Snyder told Oxygen.com that she suspects foul play. She doesn’t believe that her sister wrote the suicide note. The family has not filed any criminal report and the death has been ruled a suicide.
Kim said she saw her sister about a month before she disappeared and noticed that her demeanor had changed.
“She was out of it, and I mean out of it,” she told Oxygen.com. “Screaming and crying whereas she was always level headed. Never anything out of the ordinary.”
Kim said described her sister as “stable” and “strong” before she began taking the ESP classes.
“I just don’t know how she got sucked into this s**t,” she said, adding that she thinks her sibling wanted to enhance her career life.
Ross alleged in the docuseries that the group’s leader, Keith Raniere, told his followers that the Kristin suicide claim was “a hoax.” Instead, Ross said Raniere told his followers that Kristin was alive and living down in Mexico. …”
Of course we care about them. I am aware of the suspicious deaths you mention, though at this stage there may never be sufficient evidence to properly investigate what happened. I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if Raniere was responsible. He is after all on the record as saying he’s killed people for his beliefs. That said, I do not think that either Sarah, Nicki or any other NXIVM member or former member were in any way involved with that kind of thing though I do think that intentional indoctrination is a form of killing in itself.
Getting indoctrinated kills part of a person’s mind – quite literally. Recent advances in neuroscience have determined that our brains physically change if we’re not using them properly. Entire collections of neural networks within the brain die and may never recover. By contrast, if we exercise our brains we can increase neural networks or create new ones. Of course, the brain’s ability to do this decreases with age.
Within cults, members are conditioned not to question the doctrine they’re fed, to assimilate with their community – groupthink takes over and a communal pattern of behaviour and interdependency emerges. Group members are of course unaware that this is taking place, and once the change in their brains has come about, they are less inclyned to do anything about it.
“Our” Govt and press, which are made up of the worst of us, get to decide who matters, and who doesn’t.
A woman who volunteered to transcribe a video for a memorial service matters.
A couple of women who had slaves in DOS and now claim to be victims, who are suing women who were not their masters in DOS, they matter too.
A woman who decades earlier drowned herself does not matter.
The two Ginas do not matter. The other girls who allege they were molested in the 80s/early 90s do not matter.
And that’s not on Raniere’s supporters, who had nothing to do with these things, if they are true.
That’s on the police, the teachers, and every person who was in a position to do something, and chose not to.
BTW Nicole, just like many in DOS, was terrorized; she was also raped. 500 articles to review and write about? FFS, that’s more work than your average undergrad does in three years! Get real. And I’ve seen India interviewed many times – that girl’s straight up; you can always tell.
How can you possibly say Kristin Snyder and the 2 Ginas “do not matter”? Don’t you think that’s completely disrespectful to their families, friends and the people who knew them??
Love this artists work.
It doesn’t really matter if Nicki Clyne directly recruited specific women into DOS. Nicki was part of the criminal racketeering conspiracy.
As a front-line direct slave to Keith Raniere Nicole Clyne knew it all. She had fully informed consent. Unlike anyone outside of the front line . Those Other women did not. Like Sarah.
Nicki knew that Keith was in charge. That blackmail porn was not “unseen” by Keith. Lol.
Clyne knew about the seduction assignments. Nicki was fully aware that the brand was her boyfriend’s initials. And that the fully nude blackmail branding recordings were at Keith’s direction and for his viewing pleasure.
The court will decide if certain parties are responsible for civil damages but any thinking person in the world can decide that that is a****** Behavior. Betraying your friend and work group. Lying to them all the way up to the very bitter end . This community you supposedly care so much about? And participating in all of these women being used by your disgusting shared boyfriend? Sexually. For labor. And just for his own perverse Power Trip. That’s f***** up.
I was shocked to read and hear that Sarah was still recruiting after she got the brand. Definitely not discussed in The Vow. You have to wonder? If she never knew it was KRs initials would she have stayed on? And would continued in DOS? There would be no NY Times story. Does NXVIM still exist?
The company’s been wound up so it no longer exists as a legal entity. Nevertheless, for a remaining handful of zealots it continues in their heads. These people are still deserving of our compassion, understanding and help if they feel they need it at any stage. A victim is still a victim, whether they are aware of it or not.
Sarah Edmunson is filthy in this. I’ve been saying from the beginning, SHE is responsible for much of KAR’s actions because she lured in red meat for him to brainwash/fuck. Her husband is a fucking little cuckboy who didn’t even have the balls to confront Raniere himself. He ran to the FBI like a little snitch-bitch. I would walked into volleyball and laid Raniere out right there on the court . But Nippy backed down like a little pussy. He can’t even defend his own woman.
I reckon Nippy got scared because he thought Keith was a judo champ.
I poop on Nippy all the time. The guy would’ve kick Kieth’s ass.
Nippy is the only guy in NXIVM, whose ass I couldn’t kick.
Nippy would’ve been jailed.
Nippy is a pansy pussy little bitch. He was afraid of KAR. He backed down from Keith because he was afraid of getting his ass kicked in front of his wife. I could whip Nippys ass in 7 seconds flat. He’s such a little bitch. He was jealous because Sarah wanted Vanguards dick because Nippys limp little dick was too small. Fuck Nippy and Sarah.
Gee whiz Pilgrim,
You need to calm down. Why don’t you, go have a soy-latte and a vegan SoCal cupcake, and watch your mommy take a BBC.
I did not want to edit your comment. But I think you wrote the last sentence incorrectly.
“Why don’t you, go have a soy-latte and a vegan SoCal cupcake, and watch your mommy take a BBC.”
What you meant to write, I assume, was “Why don’t you go have a soy-latte and a vegan SoCal cupcake, and watch your mommy on BBC TV.
I ain’t no soy-boy. Black coffee on the rocks for this bad-boy.
My mother was an extra on Are You Being Served? Is that what you mean?
Pilgrim, shouldn’t you be busy jerking off to your prison rape fantasies?
I do not fantasize about prison-rape, I just think it’s a funny topic. I get a good hearty laugh when I hear stories about people getting gang-raped in the shower. I kinda feel bad if it’s an average Joe serving a bum sentence, but pedophiles and dangerous criminals, the MORE RAPE THE BETTER!!
Come on, admit it: you don’t think prison-rape is hilarious? If you can’t laugh at prison-rape, you cannot laugh at anything.
You’re such a regular guy (or gal) Pilgrim that’s for sure. You’ve got a great heart. Just hope you never get raped. But you know what they say about Karma.