Here is a comment from one of our most abrasive, caustic, annoying and best liked commenters.
By Aristotle’s Sausage
I can see where Sarah Edmondson has a valid claim against Nicki Clyne.
Way back when on the FR, there was much talk about how all these women were both victims and perpetrators. Allison Mack was a prime example.
Allison Mack, victim or perpetrator or both…
Okay, so in this case, we can say Clyne is a victimized, and Edmondson, for all her many faults, is a victim.
Clyne was an important part of this fuckin’ criminal organization. She deserves to pay damages.
I say bring the case to trial and let the jury decide. Let’s hear the evidence.
Nicki Clyne still supports the Vanguard
There seem to be several misapprehensions about civil trials. One being that the plaintiff must be pure as fresh fallen snow to collect damages.
Nope, nuh-uh, negatory.
All Edmondson has to prove is that Clyne’s actions harmed her. Say by promoting the DOS thing, spreading the lie that Keith Raniere wasn’t behind it, or the bullshit about what the brand represented.
Sarah Edmondson was the only woman who dared show her brand to prove it was real…
That shouldn’t be too hard. Clyne is still spreading lies in the cause.
One thing’s sure as hell. Clyne is no victim. She rejects the label. She’s all perpetrator then, from where I sit.
Directly or indirectly, Clyne caused Edmondson damage. Everybody in the cult was responsible, more or less, for harming everyone else.
Cult leaders don’t run these things single handed. You can’t have a cult all by yourself. It’s the cult members who fuck each other over.
Edmondson was in Nxivm to make a buck. She took great pride in being a top recruiter and mercenary. Still, I think she has a legal case against Clyne and the Bronfmans, Raniere and Mack.
I’d like to know what the jury thinks.
As for this case being messy and the shotgun metaphor, shotguns are damn fine weapons, excellent for perimeter defense and slaughtering ducks and bunny rabbits. And they’re not as random as the good judge’s metaphor makes out. You still have to aim the bastards.
Anyway, I want this to go to trial. I’ll make popcorn.’
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Aristotle makes a fine point, indubitably! What a genius of the ages!
Mr. Aristotle is correct. All Edmondson has to do is prove damages as a result of Nicki Clyne’s role in NXIVM.
It’s ‘legal’ common sense. Anyone having taken an introduction to Business Law course can tell you or someone who happened to pay attention to………
…..Attorney K.R. Claviger!
Blow it out your ass-sausage Aristotle!
[…] you, Aristotle, for your post Edmondson Has Legal Grounds to Sue Clyne. You made some interesting observations. I always love your posts, but I don’t always entirely […]
I am really confused by this. Is Sarah really suing Nicki? I recently heard Sarah as a guest on someone else’s podcast (called Navigating Narcissm) crying about how she thinks of Nicki. And talked how bad she felt for recruiting and bringing Nicki in. There were lots of tears. After hearing that I do find it hard to believe Sarah is suing Nicki.
Yep, Nicki’s on the list, that’s why she has to answer the claims. Should she be there? That’s a whole other story…
Claim # 1 from the Plaintiffs:
“Nicki and Danielle harmed Nippy and Mark by using their secret voodoo powers to force Nippy and Mark into slapping each other during their SOP meetings. Even though neither Nicki or Danielle ever coached or led an SOP meeting.”
Claim # 2:
“When Allison opened her home up to Mark and Bonnie, she served generic apple juice instead of the brand name apple juice, causing Mark to leave shit stains in his already smeared yellowish underpants.”
Let’s put it all on the table.
Why are you putting your face in other people’s dirty underwear?
Are you so deluded in your stalker ways that you think the fact that you’re scrutinizing other people’s dirty underwear makes them look bad?
Shit stains happen. But it takes a real fucking speciall freak like you, Kevin, to want to get all up in another man’s dirty drawers.
Comparing and contrasting another man’s bodily fluid stains. Again how is that a bad reflection on them and not you?
Your kink is a gross one, stalker.
—Why are you putting your face in other people’s dirty underwear?
Cuz, are kinky stalker is kinky. I’ll add he probably likes wearing “it” to.
For sure Kevin makes an “outfit” by rubbing excrement all over their naked body while starring at Sarah Edmondson”s stolen mail.
Kevin repeatedly expressed a desire to shit in Sarah’s coffee mug too.
Feces are Kevin’s jam.
Sarah. Get a restaining order. Allison Mack too. Kevin wants your poo.
“I’d like to know what the Jury thinks.”
Look at that Aristotle, there’s one thing we completely agree on.
I don’t mean to spoil the answer for you, but they will think that this woman is a lying, scheming opportunist who should be the one being sued, and not one of the lead plaintiffs.
Unsure if there is a discovery phase in a civil trial. It might be worth asking how much free labor Sarah’s DOS slaves, and other Vancouver ESP students, provided for Sarah’s center?
If Sarah sells enough mugs and hats on her website, maybe she can pay restitution to her recruits who made her a millionaire.
Ask Nicki how successful she has been selling hats and mugs. 😂
Did Sarah actually have more than one slave?
In addition to the physical use of Nick’s Jane doe #8 recruit nearby and taking classes in her & Vicente’s center?
What the fuck do you expect from an all women’s group? Women always turn on each other in the end. They fuck the same men, then stab each other in the back to get revenge. Sorority girls HATE each other. Men’s groups are fine. They get drunk, play cards, etc. If they happen to fuck the same broad, they laugh about it and give each other high fives. They don’t try to kill each other.
Men prefer to kill women.
Men also kill each other far, far more often than anyone else – despite the bonhomie and collusion over the whoring!
Men kill many more more men and men also kill far, far more women.
Men also kill a fairly large amount of children. And pregnant women.
Only certain ones, maturity level is certainly different for some.
“… Victim of Sarah Lawrence Sex Cult Leader Who Later Became His ‘Lieutenant’ Gets 54 Months in Prison …
… According to a Feb. 11, 2020, federal indictment, prosecutors said Ray’s scheme began in late 2010 when he moved into his daughter’s on-campus dorm room during her sophomore year. He began giving “therapy sessions” to his daughter’s roommates to “help them with psychological problems.”
During these “sessions,” Ray laid the groundwork for psychological conditioning that would “eventually lead these young adults to become unwitting victims of sexual exploitation, verbal and physical abuse, extortion, forced labor, and prostitution,” Assistant Director in Charge William F. Sweeney, Jr. said in Feb. 2020.
When classes ended in the second semester of 2011, several of Ray’s daughter’s roommates moved into his one-bedroom apartment on New York City’s Upper East Side.
During that summer, the roommates began to introduce Ray to some of their friends, who eventually began spending more time at the apartment and eventually became victims themselves, prosecutors said. …”
Damn, Clyne is one ugly bitch.
I’d give her the high hard one.
I never understood why women do the bangs thing. It’s awful looking.
James Earl Jones looked sexy hot with bangs:
One serving of bad-ass bagels for me please.
I can imagine reading the list of ingredients on the popcorn and donuts packaging, as prepared by KAR himself: “Corn; Wheat; Partially hydrogenated vegetable oil; and, you know, other sorts of things.”
Haha! Or it would say: flour, baking powder, salt, sugar…. You understand?
Vanguard you dumb f×ck. No one knows what you’re twadling on about…Understand?
Thank you, Aristotle – some interesting observations. I always love your posts, but I don’t always entirely agree with them.
I believe I’m right in saying that Clyne didn’t actively recruit Edmondson. If I’m not mistaken, that would have been Lauren, and for reasons that are not at all clear, she, like her mother, are somewhat surprisingly, given their position, not being sued.
I’m also not sure we can claim Clyne was spreading the lie that Raniere wasn’t behind DOS either: It’s not as if she went round all the newly recruited slaves and whispered in their ear: “Just in case you were thinking KAR is our Grand Master, he’s definitely not behind this.” She may well have described it as a sorority, but in her mind that was exactly what it was. It sounds a bit twisted to us, but I’m sure that to her it WAS all about women’s empowerment.
Regarding the brand, she would say: “It kind of…sort of…represented the elements; we just tweaked it a little to honour our Master.” And that’s kind of the problem: in Clyne’s eyes, there’re not lies.
Clyne may well reject the victim label, simply because she doesn’t see herself as one: she’s so far gone fishing, she’s living in an alternate reality of philosophy and mysticism, and all the other weird stuff that was force fed into them in countless EMs, some of them probably given by Sarah herself! And this went on for about 10 years of the most formative stage in her life, when she was most susceptible to it.
I would agree that everybody in the cult was responsible for harming everyone else. That sense of community subverts individuation and reinforces a common belief system. Just think about the crowds in Kim Il-sung Square crying torrents of tears as they listen to their ‘Dear Leader’ speak for hour after hour. As you say, it’s the cult members who fuck each other over, and we see that in many autocracies all over the world.
Strange as it may seem, I do think Clyne might perhaps have a stronger case against Edmondson: if Edmondson’s motives were purely mercenary, it could be argued that she wilfully and cynically recruited innocent people into something she consciously believed was to an extent exploitative and addictive, a little like a dealer pushing drugs. And just like long term substance abuse, people get addicted to something that will likely cause them long term damage.
Clyne’s defence is that she genuinely holds her beliefs and values, and just like in a murder trial where the evidence proves the defendant committed the crime, they may still be innocent by reason of insanity. I’m not saying she’s insane, but her intent to cause harm could be called into question given the ongoing stress and manipulation she’s been exposed to, as well as the undoubted psychological impact it has had, and still has. It just takes one juror to reach that conclusion. Exactly the same case could be made for Mack, and in her case, she is the one that got away, and I suspect she will back up Clyne, while rationally and convincingly explaining to a jury how powerful the indoctrination was.
Will we see the trial going forward? My money’s still on Clyne’s dismissal, though there is a possibility it may be without prejudice.
Great ideas, Frank. To help you pay the bills, I’m going to use NLP and hypnosis to brainwash Aristotle’s Sausage into spending thousands of your products.
Here’s my idea for your next line of donuts. We’ll call them Doughnuts and serve them in a shoebox:
The Rainbow Baby
The Bushy Kitty
The Hairless Feline
Pam’s Milky White Magic
Barb’s Doo-Doo Balls-O-Fun
The Irresistable Lair Of Lies
The Silver Bay Special
The Picturesque Hole
Sara’s Luscious Lama Delight
Nancy & Frank’s Morning After Breakfast Bagel
When the timing is right, we’ll follow this up with a line of DOH!nuts. We’ll name them after people who have been fucked over by glorious Vanguard.
Nutjob, Frank’s donut list was so good I could have sworn it was one o’ yorn – I think Robbies Sweetness might get discontinued for being 4-5 cm too large for the standard packaging? altho it could be a nice limited edition for valentines day – secret crush treat type thing?
Good list. LMAO!
You left out:
Blueberry Glazed Blue Flame🍩
If only the H3 podcast had asked Marc Elliot what it’s like to be married to a woman who has Keith Raniere’s initials branded on her pubis and she loves it?
The host did an excellent job of exposing Marc’s attempted disinformation campaign about Keith. It’s not hard to do. The interviewer just needs to be informed (as they were).
The dead-enders are just not used to anyone asking them real questions instead of scripted softballs. Their insular echo chamber does not serve the loyalists well when they venture out into the real world.
Marc asked to be a guest but is now playing (you guessed it!) The victim.
Ethan covered much cult territory within the time constraint but he probably didn’t know that Mark’s wife is currently committed as a lifetime slave to Keith and proudly wears Raniere’s brand right near her vagina. But it would be great if someone asked Marc if he enjoys seeing vanguard’s mark of ownership burned into his wife’s body.
And Ethan did not actually fear your stupid video Marc. He was teasing you about it being potentially compelling. Hee hee hee. And it was hilarious.
How many classes of Edmondson, for which she received financial and reputational gain within NXIVM, did Clyne attend? Going by your logic, Clyne could easily come up with ways counter sue her for the same things.
There are no saints here. Only reason you all really want to see Clyne fall further (how low can she go? Suspect she will show us) for her pathetic determination to continue her pursuit of DOS and Raniere. Pathetic people can rub some the wrong way, generate lots of negative emotion. In Clyne’s case, much she has earned but her garbage doesn’t absolve others of their garbage.
Edmondson is a victim. Edmondson is a victimizer. You all are determined to forget that. Edmondson does deserve forgiveness everyone here has granted her. Hopefully one day she will be able to stop making her past with NXIVM so central to her life (lets be honest between books, podcasts, etc, it very much still is) but lets not grant her sainthood or pretend much of what happened to her was not of her own choices, often motivated by money and prestige within the org.
Also a liar to amount of time spent receiving brand , a liar crying the whole time vs. laughing the whole time from 7 minutes ( reality) to an hour of excruciating pain. Forced and held vs. Asking to be steadied
EXAGGERATION @ Its finest! All on display even though agreed to inotally for the largest news outlet that would have her!
always know its a deadender – can you do any other type of discourse, apart from talking smack?
Hard to know because Nicki Clyne and Lauren Salzman edited Sarah’s branding blackmail recording.
And released it.
“Tampering” with recordings is something the Nxivm cult has an admitted history of doing.
The cult was found guilty of manipulating evidence in a court of law. The dead-enders are not credible.
Lots of people laugh during times of extreme duress. You should try it sometime. It’s a great, healthy release of trauma snd stress.
I think you meant to say,
Vicente & Saltzman have a history of editing, manipulating evidence in a court of law
Nope. I said what I said.
Excellent analyses. I totally agree.
Sarah’s edit was to black out her visual nudity. I hope the court hears the audio!
How do you know? Did you do the editing? Or are you just believing a dead-ender.
The court testimony says differently.
Under oath is the dead-ender gold standard, right?
These products are not authorized and are in violation of patents. Stop advertising them at once. Or you will be reported to the authorities.
Donuts are bad for your health. Don’t be fooled by this asshole. Don’t buy these products.