Ruth
That sentence says a lot about you, Rock. You take this serious discussion of rape, sex abuse, human trafficking, etc, as a “yawn.” Then call the person who wrote it a misandrist.
Someone’s both angry and trying to project they aren’t.
You wouldn’t call me a misandrist if I was a man. This is directed at me because of my gender.
It’s also unoriginal. I could have used “misogynist” in my articles. I haven’t.
I find it
1) doesn’t add anything new and
2) detracts from my overall point that boys and men are also hoodwinked and conditioned by the deliberate commercialization of porn and a predatory, anti-woman culture.
My next piece may be how porn and prostitution harms men.
We are talking about women abused in porn and prostitution. That normalizing BDSM is dangerous and unhealthy. That most women didn’t choose prostitution freely or happily, and are low income, trafficked or come from abusive backgrounds.
But you think I hate men, because I don’t believe men are entitled to buy women’s bodies for sexual pleasure.
I care about the sexual health of women and men, and don’t think anyone (male or female) should pretend that violence in sex has a moral high ground because consent was obtained.
Rock
I read where you wrote, “Brazil is full of idiotic machismo, rampant femicide, homophobia and fascism.”
Do you actually watch or read the news, Ruth?
They’ve just elected a properly socialist president who’s hopefully going to try to save the Amazon rainforest, unlike his predecessor, whom you no doubt secretly fancied.
Machismo is a Latin thing, always was. Rampant femicide sure, rampant homicide in general. I’ll wager there’s as much homophobia and fascism in swathes of the US, not to mention Europe.
Ruth:
I read news about Brazil. I have also been there. I was there when Bolsonaro got elected. It was terrible. But Lula is terrible. Even the left agrees.
They call it “choosing between eating vomit or feces.”
Bozo is the feces. An obviously slightly worse choice. But Lula is also terrible.
Now, onto “homicide is bad in Brazil, therefore there is no need to address femicide.”
People who study criminal behavior know that sex crimes and domestic violence are a separate category of crime from other crimes, and are not influenced by the same drivers.
Poverty doesn’t have a correlation, culture does.
Rock
You wrote, Ruth, that “People think Brazil is a “hot, sexy, free” place because of the marketing of hot Brazilian women.”
I don’t know anyone who thinks that. Maybe 15 years ago before the economy crashed. Even then it was full of favelas and rampant poverty.
You say Brazil is “Unsafe and unhappy for women”? Try extending a little – it is unhappy for men, children, household pets, clumps of rainforest, species on the brink of extinction.
Ruth
I can also attest that everything you said about Brazil NOT being hypersexualized anymore by foreigners and Brazilians is untrue.
I’ve been there. I’ve had multiple thirsty comments directed at me when I told people I went to Brazil.
The comments were to the effect: “Oh are they hot there! I heard both the women and the men are hot!” “Oh did you get a Brazilian?” (cringe) Oh I’m jealous, I heard the women there are so hot!” “Omg I bet the ass there is so good!”
Rock
I will again quote you Ruth: “In the US, Utah has the highest porn consumption. And it’s an extremely conservative place. The more conservative you are, the more extreme gender roles are. The more extreme gender roles, the more the subjugation and exploitation of women. The more women subjugation and exploitation, the more violence against women.”
What you fail to understand, Ruth, is that the more the law tries to clamp down on these things, the more people want them. The forbidden apple tastes sweetest.
BTW, what stats do you have for the comparative subjugation and exploitation of women in Utah compared to the rest of the US? What evidence do you have that leads to sexualization or violence against women?
Ruth
Regarding extreme conservatism, the repression of porn/prostitution does not make it happen more, because it’s repressed.
What is repressed is real emotional intimacy between men and women who love each other, and normal gender relations. (see: Saudi Arabia) What is repressed is any form of healthy consensual, mutually respectful sex.
And what results is warped behavior. Both conservatism and corporate commercialization of sex do the same thing. They normalize women-as-object (lesser than men) and depersonalize people from each-other in healthy intimate relationships.
Both religion and corporations don’t want you to not need them for guidance and satisfaction.
People who have fulfilling lives with healthy relationships tend not to need externalized authorities or multiple purchases to feel satisfied with themselves.
Rock
Again Ruth, you write, “Men do not consider the massive extent to which domestic violence exists in our societies, nor do men want to admit that 80%-98% of violent sex crimes are by men.”
Remember Lorena Bobbit? I know, extreme example, but here’s the point – a far fewer percentage of men report incidents of domestic abuse than women. That’s just a fact.
Domestic abuse legislation introduced throughout the world has undermined a man’s legal standing in the home, as armies of men have been thrown out of their family homes for crimes as ‘serious’ as getting the wrong shopping on a regular basis.
It’s called ‘gaslighting’ and ‘coercive control’, those BS terms ringing out of social media like a harpy’s screech.
In many European jurisdictions, ‘coercive control’ has become a criminal felony, even though lawmakers haven’t even been able to define it in law, simply because it means different things to different folks.
Everyone should be equal before the law, including men and women.
Ruth
I will address the alt right (men’s rightist, incel) canard that women might be “just as violent as partners” as men, and men are just too scared to report it.
Really?
Throughout history, it’s women who run most police and judges in the world, intimidating and dismissing male victims from reporting crimes?
It’s women that have made the laws for most of human history? It’s women who were historically owners of their men when married? It’s wives who institutionalized their husbands for not being sexually available?
It’s men who have been barred from speaking in the halls of power or even attending academic institutions?
It’s men who have been sterilized without their consent? It’s men who are the victims of mass rape during wartime? It’s women who are drafted into war, because women are expected to be more violent?
Can you give me a statistic on how many men are hospitalized by the violence of their female partner per year? How many men are killed? How many mothers murder their children by beating them to death, compared to men? How many women engage in murder-suicide of their family or simply fratricide?
You throw out single examples too. Like Lorena. This is called the “spotlight fallacy” aka the fallacy of composition.
You hope to take the tiny 5% (actually even less than that) of outlying cases, and throw a spotlight on it, ignoring the majority. You then jump into speculation that this whole time, globally and in history, we just haven’t seen the truth, and this tiny minority is actually the tip of the iceberg.
Rock
Ruth, you write, “Most men do not consider that normalizing brutal, controlling behavior against women as a form of sexual satisfaction stretches from the family model (what the child learns) all the way out to every part of society.”
How do you explain that just as many guys go regularly to a dominatrix? They love to lick her boots, be tied up, spanked and whipped with various chastising instruments, dressed in nappies, and given all manner of demeaning abuse and insults. Ever wonder what kind of childhood they had?
No doubt you believe they then go home and beat the shit out of their wives, assuming they’re still alive (the wives I mean).
Ruth
The BSDM world is not 50/50 male submissive and male dominants. It’s more like 95/5 or 90/10 dominant males.
Rock
You write, “Healthy women don’t choose to be prostitutes.”
Oh really? Ever read ‘Playing the Whore’ by Melissa Gira Grant? I recommend it. She was a prostitute, so she knows what she’s talking about.
You also said that “In Amsterdam, the red light district has so much crime, it is cordoned off from the rest of the city. Police report men feel emboldened to misbehave, leading to so much crime it’s hard to police there, to the point where people stop being compliant and groups are hostile to the police. Drug use is rampant. Trafficking is rampant among the brothels. And most women report being assaulted while on the job.”
It’s obvious you’ve never been there. I’ve been there quite a few times – one of my favorite cities. Cordoned off? Nonsense – it’s right in the center of town. I never saw a single cop day or night. There’s no cops, because there’s no crime!
Drug use is rampant all over the city – in every ‘coffee shop.’ They call them that, but they’re primarily for smoking decent weed. Alanzo would love it. There’s no trafficking in the brothels, because they’re properly regulated and unionized. Assaults rarely, if ever, take place.
They have their own security and everything’s above board.
Ruth
I’ve also been to Amsterdam. I had two harassing experiences in the red light area. So. I’m pretty sure, as a man, you wouldn’t’ experience what I experienced.
Very typical, “I didn’t see anything, therefore nothing exists” fallacy of the especially flat-brained.
Here’s something from the Netherlands Times:
https://nltimes.nl/2018/07/30/amsterdam-center-devolves-lawlessness-night-ombudsman-says
Rock
You write, “Buying a woman’s consent is also a form of coercion aka rape.”
So says an opinionated misandrist. Love the selective citations: easy to back up your arguments using Google.
“Most importantly, [prostitution] is nearly always allowed for certain classes, and certain cases, like during wartime, or in certain closed off areas. India, Russia, Europe, China.”
What about Utah? LMAO
Ruth
Regarding Utah, they go next door to Nevada for prostitution.
Regarding you believing buying consent is not rape. Coercive consent is not enthusiastic consent. Would you give other men blowjobs for money 12 times a day?
Imagine if you had to, because you had to feed your child, pay rent, or get your drugs.
If you consented to suck 12 dicks a day to pay your rent, where otherwise you would never do that, would you say you were fully consenting?
If your wife demanded sex from you because she was the breadwinner who paid for your food and housing, would you say this was a healthy relationship?
If not, how is it fully consent when it’s got the label “prostitute” on it?
If it is the same as any other form of labor, fully consensual and moral, why is it sexual harassment if the bank boss asks the teller to also include handjobs in her job description, along with a year-end bonus or promotion?
Is sex like any other action that can be termed labor? Is it as neutral to the body and mind, like flipping burgers, being a plumber, or accounting?
Does it do the body good to reduce your pleasure, and instead turn the act of sex itself into a chore for others’ benefit, not your own? Is it good for your mental health?
If it is the same as any other form of labor, why are the rates of PTSD, drug use, and suicide for ex-prostitutes as high as those of veterans?
If it is the same as any other form of labor, then shouldn’t we train children to do it, and let children pretend to be prostitutes for career day or Halloween?
Is sexual assault just like any other assault? Is being beaten the same as being raped?
There is a reason why this is illegal for a landlord to do to a tenant, for a wife to a husband, or a boss to an employee. But somehow, if you just slap the word “prostitute” on, it becomes acceptable, and it somehow exists removed from all the ways it is putrid and inhumane in any other situation.
The long term damage done by Shoemaker and his cult
If you live in Portland you may have driven by the Movement Center without paying any attention to the site. The building is placed back from the street in a quiet neighborhood and surrounded by spreading lawns and a high wall. Shoemaker moved his cult here in the 1990’s after a period of closing and consolidating centers that Swami Rudi, Albert Rudolf, had founded. According to information provided by commentators on the Frank Report, Shoemaker could not share the spotlight with any other teachers and had fall out after fall out with his “loved ones”. Scott Hanley, Steve Ott, Marc Gafni, and Dr. Alexis Sanderson are four of the luminaries that Shoemaker has chased away from his tightly held core of wealth producing, free labor devotees.
Shoemaker has a new compound in Gold Beach. It too is tucked away from the prying eyes of non-believers. He has used the labor of his “loved ones” to move him and all his precious art and ritual objects from Portland to Gold Beach. His “loved ones” have built for him a new meditation room where he can burn up things. The “loved ones” have placed a couple of huge stone sculptures on the grounds and worked their fingers to the bone to start beds of blueberries and other organic produce. But how will Shoemaker keep this all going? Will the Church of Divine Energy bring in enough money and talent to satisfy this unsatisfiable narcissist?
Shoemaker has not even been able to keep his “born in loved ones” around him, they have left. Shoemaker seemed to have practiced some sort of reproductive coercion. Shoemaker used his “supernatural powers” to read the astrological charts of his “loved ones” of reproductive age and “saw in the stars” that they would have defective children or that they were not destined to be mothers. Seems like that approach is leaving Shoemaker without a corps of new, robust “loved ones” to work for him and provide him with sex! Poor guy. How have Shoemaker and his flying monkeys managed to chase away the children of the cult? What will he do now? Even his closest “loved ones” are getting old and they can’t perform all the “seva” he needs done at his new mansion in Gold Beach. I have heard that he hired a gardener!
For five decades Shoemaker has conned his “loved ones” in to believing that he is an avatar for a Hindu Goddess. The “loved ones” believe Shoemaker has divine powers and that they must show unwavering loyalty and obedience. He has indoctrinated and gaslighted his “loved ones” and they are convinced that only Shoemaker has the power to keep the evil demons and ghosts that inhabit the toxic outside world from attacking and harming them. It seems that Shoemaker’s “loved ones” live in a state of constant fear and dread. What does it take to break free from such a system of abuse? Shoemaker uses this fear to control his “loved ones” even after they leave him.
This was summed up for me by a former member who cannot come forward with her story of abuse, “how can I allow myself to be dragged through the legal system. What good will come of that. How can I expose myself to the power and anger of the Swami. How can I tell my story of abuse in an open court room? Perhaps I could share with others who have been through this, but I don’t know if that would help anyone but me. I have spoken to others and none of them are willing to talk to law enforcement, or even to others, yet. This unwillingness is because everyone who has been harmed by this man was trapped in a trauma bond with him and they have yet to be released. The fear of his powers is so great it is overwhelming. That is how he continues to control us, through fear.” This survivor knows that Shoemaker continues to abuse young women and she feels that her silence makes her a complicit bystander. I believe she is right.
Here is a shot list of “loved ones” who have left Shoemaker gleaned mostly from the Richard Read articles and what has been posted by others, I am sure that Frank Report Readers can add to this list:
Dan Eyink
Dana Swift
Gunner Anderson
Joan Ames
Diane Asay (RIP)
Karen and Kristin Kreiger
Norman Bodek
Kerry Ernest Smith
Melinda Mandell
Debi Moore
Jim Hassan
Aurelia Navarro
Pat Tarzian
Carolyn Morgan
Leiko Coyle
Lillana Lopez
Jon Shankar
Jana Peterson
Michael Bazzani
Vanessa Bazzani
Pia Bazzani
Liz Bazzani (RIP)
Andrew Bonner
Rebecca Reese
I hope they all are having wonderful lives. I hope Shoemaker reads this list. He can gaslight himself about why these “loved ones” have left him, but we know the truth. They left because J. Michael Shoemaker is a traumatizing narcissist, a harmful, evil and wicked man.
This should have been given its own posting. I feel like it contains a lot of important information for silenced victims and a bit of an insight into why so many feel afraid to speak out. I’m also one of his victims. I’m speaking to other victims but I don’t know who she is. I wish I could speak to her. But I want to say, he can’t wage war against all of us. There are too many of us now. He is old. And he will fail. We are as strong as he is if we stick together. You have allies in this. He wins if we stay silent.
These lists of names are so horribly inaccurate it’s painful seeing these names all lumped together; and Swami must laugh when he sees shit like this. For real. Whoever puts these lists together has no clue about who is who!
This is very true. And constantly exposing victims’ names publicly in misinformed ways, alongside people who had no idea what was happening, is offensive and distorted. All it really does (to the OP) is show you really have little idea about the history and community. But I will say, to those of us who do know, I hope if this goes to the FBI for investigation, we can come forward and tell the whole truth about what happened and this monster gets shut down once and for all. I hope all victims will speak at that point. That’s what I’m waiting for.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IF9JVNdgfdI
If we help one child it will change the future.
Silence is violence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
Devotion to their Guru, masquerading as: Stockholm syndrome.
Inner circle: What say YOU?
So the woman who likes to make arguments that it’s so great to own a AR-15, even made her own wants to lecture people on dangerous hobbies? LMAO. Aren’t you into polyamory too? Isn’t that what Becker said? Your boyfriend is married? Do you want to do a series about polygamist cults like in the Mormon church and how children are married off at 12? I guess you did learn SOMETHING of value to your life by living at TMC. Is that were you learned to love polyamory? I don’t expect you to answer this like you never answer any questions about the people who brought you into this cult or your alleged abusers. You seem to have no answers for your pathological hypocrisy. How many people die in BDSM accidents every year Ruth as opposed to gun violence?
My you’re quite angry aren’t you, Jessica?
My logic:
Guns aren’t bad. (they’re a neutral object)
Sex isn’t bad. (it’s a neutral act)
Gun violence is bad.
Sex violence is bad.
Is this too difficult for you to comprehend?
You want to talk about who has some mental issues here? The logic seems pretty straight forward to me.
The funny thing is you are trying to say “BDSM accidents” to cover up for rape. And you know it too. You know what you’re doing and why you’re here. So it was all an accident? Is that it? Is that the fresh argument?
The unspoken message is you are defending your rapist boyfriend, Michael Shoemaker, who uses the cover of BDSM and prostitution and submission/dominance(under a guise of ritualistic spiritual progress) to rape..So it was all an accident? Is that it? Is that the fresh argument?
You proved my point for me. It’s a dirty loophole for predators and literal murderers.
See:
https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/
So you’re outing yourself to us here Jessica. I wonder if you would be giving the same venom to Eva or Natasha. The truth is, you have already, we know you did. This is who you are. You have to call people r*tarded and slander every part of their lives without addressing any of the actual arguments being made.
And this is what you do to anyone who comes forward with allegations against your beloved sociopath guru. It’s not just me you have a beef with. You are the defender of rapists, pedophiles and abusers and you can’t stand that anyone calls this out. Why? Because it’s who you are. And you will do anything to hide that. You know it’s wrong.
Jessica, let me play that sad flute for you again like I did after you threatened me in text.
There is no amount of explaining that would be enough for you and your scrambled brain.
Did Jessica go back?
Yes, she did.
https://frankreport.com/2022/09/18/jessica-makes-100-reversal-she-lied-about-swami-being-evil/
No she was served an NDA.
Definitely not the same as “going back”
Ah yes. That’s what I thought. Thank you. Recant, and here’s a nice fat chq to shut your mouth and fuck off for good. That was a very expensive prostitute. Cost him a lot more than money. Stupid sick pervert. Finally he met his match. Pity she was all talk about not accepting the dough and walking the high road for the sake of stopping him, and all that bs. I’m sure he got off lightly too.
That comment wasn’t written by Jessica Becker!! she has an NDA I thought which prevented her from making comments here?
I guess someone else is calling bullshit on you AGAIN
replying to Hey RuTard
https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-polyamory
Ruth was victimized by Shoemaker and his entire cult. This included her own family members. She has been brave enough to share her experiences. She is healing and gaining an independent life. Many people who have escaped from the Shoemaker cult have been able to grow and thrive. Good for them!
Shoemaker has an ability to suck in families. Guy and his brother Howard, Jana and her sister, Faith and her husband, Chris and his wife, Liz, her husband and children, just to name a few. There are many more. They are all victims of this cult. This is a tried and true cult tactic. It makes it harder to leave a cult if your family is also involved. Mormons, Nxivm, Jehovah’s witnesses, Children of God, they all use the same cultly tactics.
Blaming the victims is also a cultly tactic. Keep it up, keep pointing away from Shoemaker. Look over there so Shoemaker can keep exploiting and harming.
Holy shit I just figured out that Ruth must be a MOLE in Frank’s camp!! That’s why she never reports on her family’s involvement!!! MOLE
The Stockholm Syndrome. Google it. Cheesewhizananda has a whole cadre of folks who succumbed to this phenomenon. Inner circle weirdos.
Hey Sadhvi has anyone ever shared with you that Swami looks like an ex-football player, psychopath-convict, gorilla?
Tell him I said so. And, tell him his chef will blow out in time. Because that is no life for a young guy.
Mark my words. He will go KA BLOOEY.
Oh is that dude still with him?? James. What’s his last name? That guy wants to be just like Shoemaker and the world should know if James begins teaching to not buy what he’s selling
I don’t know his last name. But, you watch: he will blow out. At some point. Everyone does.
Except for those caught up in Stockholm Syndrome. Google it. The inner circle suffers from it.
The cook will go KA BLOOEY. Because that aint no place for a young person, long term.
His name is James Des Rochers
More about James DesRochers
his friends are:
Jana Peterson, doesn’t have a grip
Rio HIbler, in the grip (of Shoemaker)
Isa Raim, once gripped
Cynthia Brown, in the grip
Thomas Fabrizio, #1 gripped, in Gold Beach
Chris Jackson, in Gold Beach and gripped
Brenda Siragusa, in the grip
Patty Slote, gripped by Shoemaker and Fabrizio, in Gold Beach
Michell Valentino, gripped in Gold Beach
Chris Cartwright, cross country gripped, recruited in Indiana, 50 years and counting!
Kelly Ponzi, gripped might have put her kid in the grip too
Andrew Bonner, gripped and gripped others, currently terrorizing ex-members
Jamie Lindsay Currin, told us she was never harmed, still gripped?
James M. Brissette, #1 gripped, henchman for Shoemaker, never leaves his side, in Gold Beach
Monica O’Neal, Gripped in Gold Beach
Vivina Boster, gripped by Shoemaker and still gripping her husband, Howard, both visit Gold Beadh
Jessica Becker, lost her grip
Susan Marshall, in Gold Beach, in the grip
Drew Carlson, was gripped
Viktor Usov, gripped and groped others
Jen Wilhelm, in the grip and in Gold Beach
Jan LaRue, a “sweet old one” with a dog in the grip and in Gold Beach
Molly Merideth, “sweet old one” in the grip and in low income housing due to her faith in the Guru
Linda Pope, “sweet old one” had her life taken from her by the grip
Margie Pos, gripped for good, no life left
Joann Neel, “sweet old one”, over the hill, gripped
Kari Gronningsater, in Gold Beach, gripping pots and pans for Shoemaker
Laura Shanti, in the grip
EJ Rosen, in the grip, visitor to Gold Beach
James Des Rochers family might want information about his well being. Call Charlene DesRochers and let her know what the Frank Report has to say about conditions at facilities run by Shoemaker. She might want to plan a “family reunion” for the holidays? Time to go James, time to get out.
wheres the gripped groped and penetrated list?
” This practice is about being the finest person we can possibly be…”, Swami Chetanananda.
This is finest person he can be? Choking women, sexual abusing them, drug abuse, giving young people poor advice, prostitutes, hanging women from hooks, manipulating students, taking credit for others accomplishments and talents….This is the best he can do?
What a guy!
MONI. SADHVI. THERESA. JEN.
Fuck all of you. You cult members, you.
Sad group of losers.
What is all this shit? Take me back to Kansas
The ramblings of someone that desires oppression so much that she sees it everywhere.
What a disgusting thing to say
Trigger warning!
What a virtue signal!
Yes!
Ruth: “What was I supposed to get out of the ashram Fig? As a young woman, what exactly did I not get”?
How about exposure to an authentic spiritual practice for starters? How about the fact that certain folks who actually did step up and try very hard to help you? How about being a grateful for something while at the ashram? That is what you didn’t get.
How about instead of taking center stage and making this entire discussion about you, and ranting on your soap box, simply stepping aside. Haven’t you said enough by now?
No one in their right mind is tolerant of sexual abuse of any kind. The discussion isn’t about sexism, or prostitution, it is about Swami Chetanananda and his band of pirates. Let’s stick to that.
Come forward with your name.
LMAO no one needs to come forward with their name. Is it that you wanna do some more victim shaming and bullying around the block Ru?
Who have I victim shamed and bullied? Jessica Becker is that you? You can’t claim to be bullied or shamed after what you did.
The only bullying I see is what you and many others are doing to Ruth. If you think you know better, then give your perspective instead of attacking someone who’s brave enough to use her name. No wonder so many of you were with Cheatananda for so many decades. Some of you are just rotten. Any of you learn anything with all your “spiritual practice?”
Is it brave to sit and throw false accusations and make wild empty allegations towards inncocent victims the way Ruth has?
Why do you still believe her is the real question.
@ December 11, 2022 at 12:00 am
Well I certainly don’t believe the coward throwing anonymous insults.
Correction: @ December 12, 2022 at 3:50 pm
Get over yourself, Ruth.
And what does your being harassed in Amsterdam have to do with anything? I’ve been harassed in a public library. That doesn’t mean the public library is an immoral place that devalues women.
Right, just like you can have a drunk driver fly a car through your bedroom and kill you, therefore you don’t have more car accidents on roads. Makes sense.
What’s your opinion on pimps and brothel owners as a class of people in general and historically? Curious where your ideals meet reality here.
I’m just saying that you being harassed there has zero to do with anything. It’s totally irrelevant.
Reality? That makes no sense.
Your desire for oppression exceeds reality.
Ad hominem:
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
“That sentence says a lot about you, Rock. You take this serious discussion of rape, sex abuse, human trafficking, etc, as a “yawn.” Then call the person who wrote it a misandrist.”
Maybe it does – I took the prospect of wading through more of your man-hating ranting and spurious claims a bit tiring after the first round. The second offering was even more opinionated. I’m not sure I’ll be up to much more, so might take a rain check on how porn and prostitution harm men. No doubt I’m beyond help.
It doesn’t anger me, but it does annoy me when people spout stuff that’s misleading at best, and based on dubious sources. I admit, I don’t know if you’ve ever been to Amsterdam, but your description of it did not ring true with a number of commenters including myself. When I clocked Ben had checked your source – Sanchez Manning who freelances for the Daily Mail and is associated with promoting transphobia – I wasn’t exactly surprised. That article was nearly 5 years old, and thankfully the red light area is still thriving, as are the Coffee shops. So much for them clearing up the ‘decadence’.
There’s no denying the trafficking of women has links to prostitution – illegal prostitution. Legalizing and regulating it aims to protect the women who work in it and make sure they’ve not been trafficked. It’s a win-win. Banning it drives women into the hands of criminals where they’ve no rights, their money’s taken by the pimps, and they’ve no protection from violent and abusive Johns.
If you were a man, Ruth, I’d call you a misogynist because the boot would be on the other foot and you’d be slagging women. I’m not anti-woman, but I am anti women slagging men when it’s not deserved, criticizing art for being sexist, and pretending they know stuff when they don’t.
It strikes me you have a really distorted view of men in general, and maybe that just comes from your own subjective experience. Where I’m from women are equal to men in pretty much all ways. The progress made in recent years has been phenomenal and unprecedented, the views of kids and young people transformed for the better, especially with reference to things like racism, homophobia and transphobia. It’s all about the acceptance of others, celebrating difference, being whatever you want to be if it’s not hurting others, and not being judgmental about how other people want to live their lives if they’re not hurting anyone else.
When I was at college, Ruth, I had friends who were on the game. In a single weekend they could make upwards of 3 grand, which was a lot of money back then for a student, and that was 3 clients at most. We were all pretty envious with our paltry part-time work flipping burgers in stinky kitchens for peanuts. Course, they went on to get proper careers once they graduated, got married, had kids, the usual. Not saying it’s like that for everyone, but sometimes it can be. I’m still in touch with some of them, and they’re living normal fulfilled lives.
Your other comments:
“Regarding Utah, they go next door to Nevada for prostitution.” That’s what repression does, hence the abundance of porn!
“Would you give other men blowjobs for money 12 times a day?” I’m not gay, but my brother would if the price was right.
“Imagine if you had to, because you had to feed your child, pay rent, or get your drugs.” That’s why people work, some jobs are worse than prostitution, many are pretty much on a level.
“If your wife demanded sex from you because she was the breadwinner..” Sex and money?? I wish – I’d be the cat that got the cream!
“..why is it sexual harassment if the bank boss asks the teller to also include handjobs in her job description” That’s like DOS giving out the “Seduce Keith” assignment; job descriptions should be honest and upfront.
“Is sex like any other action that can be termed labor?” Go read the book I told you about – it’s a true story written by a feminist.
“Does it do the body good to reduce your pleasure, and instead turn the act of sex itself into a chore” Sex can be whatever you make it. For a lot of married people it can be a chore.
“why are the rates of PTSD, drug use, and suicide for ex-prostitutes as high as those of veterans?” I think they’re worse for dentists.
“shouldn’t we train children to do it, and let children pretend to be prostitutes” That’s a sick question. I’m guessing it’s rhetorical.
“There is a reason why this is illegal for a landlord to do to a tenant, for a wife to a husband, or a boss to an employee. But somehow, if you just slap the word “prostitute” on, it becomes acceptable, and it somehow exists removed from all the ways it is putrid and inhumane in any other situation.”
No, what’s illegal and immoral is when you coerce or trick someone into doing something which is illegal, e.g. what happened in DOS. If it’s not illegal, and the job description does what it says on the tin, it’s up to the individual to decide on, depending on the remuneration on offer. That’s capitalism for you. If you want to maximize terms, conditions and pay you need to allow for proper unionization, but maybe that’s a little left-field for you?
For someone who calls me a redditor, you sure write like one. Bloviating. That’s the term. Oh and inconsistent. Also envious. You even admit it. So this is one of those rare cases where I can address your emotional state because you’ve openly shared it with us. You show us the root of your issues – envy of what you imagine women had or have that somehow was better or easier than what you had. Infantile and insecure thinking actually.
Also
Your logic about “some can be happy/do well” is like saying because someone working on an oil rig made a lot of money (or more precisely, more than you in a specific instance, which makes it even more ridiculous since that’s clearly entirely personal and subjective), therefore the oil industry is alright. Or better yet, because some people consent to be in the army, come out “fine”, or even with a successful career, then you cannot critique war itself and the military-industrial complex itself as a predatory enterprise.
I think you’ve been exhausted really of what you thought were your best points and now the barrel is being scraped, as well as some regular old circular logic (returning back to the premises which were already refuted). Thank you for playing!
“You show us the root of your issues – envy of what you imagine women had or have that somehow was better or easier than what you had”
Are you really this stupid? The point of their saying they were envious was to illustrate that their friend doing weekend sex work didn’t seem to have it bad. In fact, the prostitution work they did seemed like better work than flipping burgers. Nothing to do with insecurity or true envy.
You mean according to their perspective, from the sidelines, like a fat football fan saying “football is easy! I could do it!”
By it’s own, its a weak argument.
They did themselves a further disservice by admitting where their bias comes from.
Basic logic, do you have it?
Of course they are giving their perspective as an observer. So are you. But even if you did work as a prostitute, that doesn’t mean you can speak for all prostitutes and their experiences anyway. And someone giving their personal impressions as an observer doesn’t mean that the person is insecure. Basic common sense. You don’t have it.
No we are all just tired of reading your opinion. You weren’t ever there eight years and you didn’t even know you were living in a school.
You were there a hot minute at 19 and then gone for five years then apparently needed a place to stay and get back on your feet. They let you take refuge there but you did not just spend a couple months turning your life around. You settled back in and stayed another year or two.
You have made false accusations about several members and your opinion does not represent anyone but yourself.
How did you have the money to go to Amsterdam and Brazil when you were so broke you had nowhere else to go but the ashram?
Quit lying to Frank
Whoever you are, your timeline is so off, lmaoooo. I started getting groomed into it at 18, moved in at 19, I was kicked out in 2007, after I got my associates degree and couldn’t get a job. I was short on rent. Even though Sharon knew of my circumstances, even though I was looking for work desperately, even though I didn’t even have a car to even look for a job and had literally ZERO money, I was kicked out because I owed them a total of $600 dollars. Wow! What great compassionate wisdom! What a great caring place!
I was “allowed” back in 2010, because I paid them back what I owed. I was also desperate for a place to stay, because I was homeless, which is also something that I told Sharon was a risk I was facing if they kicked me out from the very beginning (due to my own family being…not so great). I will never forget the drive back there, in July of 2010. So, lol. That’s 3 years max? Mid 2007 to Mid 2010? I never claimed I was there all consecutive years too, please check yourself.
I measure it as from 2004 (move in date 2005, but my grooming started in 2004, I started seeing Andrew, going to classes, working for Julie Galaski then as well) – to 2007 (mid) and 2010- early 2014. So 7 years I guess, if you’re really careful about it.
And yes, I knew it was called an “institute”. And I was even explicitly told by Sharon ward that people there were “students.” I knew this from the moment I moved in there. Although what was being taught there I still don’t know?
What was I there to learn? How to be a good mindless slave so I can burn all my karma? How to sit completely still and hold your pee in when Shoemaker drones on for 4 hours about word salad nonsense? Or maybe I “learned” a special unspeakable energy transmission from Michael’s superpowered eyes? Or maybe he taught me everything I needed to know when he groped me? Maybe the class was I was supposed to have sex with him? That’s the instruction that I really missed, right?
Where are my certifications for the landscaping and construction jobs that I accomplished? What license did I apprentice for and obtain as part of that program? Oh, the yoga teaching license? Oh I should definitely sue for that since my yoga certification is forever tarnished coming from your group.
You put a known pedophile as a teacher trainer, someone who was caught having sex with underage prostitutes in Nepal, as well as doing meth in the parking lot (again with prostitutes) right in front of the grounds. You had teacher trainers like Natacha who were high on drugs while teaching, actually high 24/7 actually…..You used the yoga school to fish for women for Shoemaker to abuse. Shame on you.
What personal mentorship did I get to help me specifically succeed as a human being in the outside world and to heal from my traumas?
You want to blame me for “settling in” to a cult designed to trap people there?
The guru himself would frequently remark on the brokenness of the outside world and how people are dying out there. How everything outside is just rotten tension unconsciously repeating itself, people being born in “envelopes” of tension from their parents and never being free. I was told “you think it’s bad here, just think about the outside world.”
During meals we would talk about the horribleness of the outside world often. People would literally get anxious leaving the grounds for fear of losing the “guru’s protection.”
People were afraid to breathe wrong if it offended the guru. I remember people like Kelly Ponzi being extremely anxious about having permission to do anything or upsetting Swami in any way. There were multiple people like that there, all affirming this culture of fear and submission.
How did people become independent there? Where was the help? I’m not the only person that ended up being “stuck” there. People were coming in clean from addictions and lapsing badly while there, even dying like Ayaz did. People with money and lots of resources like Michael Bazzani were lapsing on their addictions and had to leave. People were getting institutionalized for getting involved with Shoemaker just a little bit. People would say it was because of his strong energy, and it wasn’t his fault. Sure, right. It was a known threat that he would even say to people, that people had a tendency to leave him and “go crazy” or “commit suicide.” Even Sharon would say that. If I was smarter, I would have run away the second I heard that. Well, now I’m smarter.
The compassionate wisdom I got from Shoemaker when discussing depression with him one time (I didn’t even discuss suicide with him) involved him just singing the MASH song to me with a disgusting smirk on his face. “Suicide is painless…it brings on many changes.” I left feeling nothing but confusion. I certainly didn’t feel helped. Was it a special shaktipat for me? I now see it in retrospect for what it really is, a demonstration of his contemptable sociopathy.
Why did Sharon want me to lie to the government and claim mental disability while they had me hanging from scaffolds and cooking meals for 100 people?
More than one person knows the truth btw about the people I’ve accused. So please do claim they are false. We survivors know what happened and who is who.
What did you learn from this “school”? Tell us.
“Redditor…Inconsistent…Envious? Not sure where that all comes from.
Your logic’s a little hard to follow because it’s, well, illogical. Equating prostitution to the oil industry, military-industrial complex…wow, you’ve lost me there. Sorry to say there’s plenty left in the barrel, but maybe for another time.
Ruth Graham has no business dominating these blog posts. She makes some good points, but to turn this into her personal soap box is ridiculous. Someone came up to Ruth at the end of a dinner clean up, and said “you little trouble maker, you”. It was deserved. She has demonstrated that she got nothing out of her time at the ashram, which proves a point, that she actually had no business being there in the first place.
Get off the soap box. And, lets return to the issues at hand. Chetanananda is a snake. Keep the focus on him directly. Not Ruth’s versions of sexism etc. It is a complete waste of air space.
I second this. This is silly that it has turned into this. Come on Frank!! Did you run out of real material on Chetananada?? Can’t you get back on track?
Relax, the big boy will be back with all his spiritual wisdom and divinity.
@Fig…. Thank you & agreed! Ruth needs to sit down. Thank you, Ruth, We’ve heard your story. Can we get back to Chet?
I have been asking this of Frank repeatedly, daily, trust me. Although I’m honored he thinks my writing is good enough to be stand alone this is also my main goal of participating in this at all. I’m also working on ways to get more victims to come forward and I trust Frank has plenty of articles to go on this. Thank you.
We don’t want to read your writing anymore that’s the point
More victims of who? Who brought YOU into the Ashram, Ruth? Does your family not bear any responsibility in what you were subjected to there? Seems like they recruited you for indentured servitude. Why don’t you talk about that instead of desperately trying to “shine the light” on everyone and everything BUT THAT. It wasn’t an interest in meditation or Kundalini energy, Ruth. I would imagine your relatives know every bruise, concussion, and bump since they were the resident doctors. Will that be mentioned in the documentary? You seem to pick and choose your “favorites” to protect to and damn others for having same. People don’t dislike you for your commentary. They dislike you for your pomposity, hypocrisy and lies by omission.
Yes!!
Ruth’s uncle is Andrew Bonner and certainly Andrew should be interviewed whether he treated any of Chetananada’s victims and did not report Chet to the authorities.
Why do we never hear about the doctors involved??
Or his wife Rebecca Bonner? She is also a doctor and Chetananada’s other personal doctor for well over a decade.
“Becky” is the aunt of Ayaz Quadir, the young man who overdosed and died in his room at the Movement Center.
How and why do both of these doctors (who are also trained lawyers) that have protected and insulated Swami Chetananada for the past two decades not been interviewed?
Becky can be found on YouTube as Anessa. She claims to channel a 12th dimensional being and can offer you guidance.
Word on the street is she felt she outgrew Chet and decided not to follow him to Gold Beach and he threw a fit. I wonder if he simply has too much dirt on them for them to ever come forward.
Ruth must know what her family is up to these days. I wonder what the docs have to say about all this.
Anon can you link her channel and info can’t find it.
Well said!!
That is a valid point, Ruth. Please consider filling in some of the blanks concerning the Bonners.
@Hey Human Smoke Screen
You are blaming the victim and not calling out Shoemaker. Who is the leader of this dangerous and damaging criminal organization? J. Michael Shoemaker. Shoemaker and his henchpeople, Jim Brissette, Monica O’Neal, Sharon Ward, Thomas Fabrizio, Andrew Bonner, Rebecca Reese, Howard Boster, Vivina Boster among others are the center of this spider web of deceit and abuse. Some victims also become perpatrators as they get sucked into the deepths of the depravity of this group. That is how cults work. Shoemaker’s criminal enterprize works just like a gang. New members are recruited through “lovebombong”,then held in the gang through threats and violence. The newly indoctrinated members then participate in the same treatment of the nest batch of recruits. The cycle of fradulent recruitment, lovebombing, indoctrination, threats, abuse, exploitation goes on as long as the cult leader is there to direct the members.
Howard was sent to Rudi when he was 15, is he at fault for what his family did to him? Bonner brought in his wife, Rebecca, and his father John. Rebecca brought in her nephew, Ayaz, who died at the Movement Center. Who is responsible? Shoemaker? The first line henchpeople? Brissett, Ward, O’Neal, Bonner? Or the entire criminal organization that conspired to recruit, indoctrinate, gaslight and abuse those they entrapped in their web?
Why didn’t they just leave? Why did they stay?
How do the abusive group dynamics that Shoemaker and his flying monkeys have established make it dangerous or impossible to leave? Coercive control functions to keep group members from leaving, and the chaotic dysfunction of the group works to make members unable to think critically and therefore deployable to do the leader’s bidding. After decades of dedicating their work and lives to Shoemaker, what do these members who want to leave, what do they have? Families that they have cut off, no retirement investments because they “worked” for the cult enterprizes, no social network becasue all the “friends” are cult members. No children because Shoemaker controlled their reporductive options.
So blame the victims, all this was their fault? Shoemaker is sitting pretty in his new mansion with his fat bank accounts that he stold from the work of his “loved ones”. The ex-members are left with broken bones, broken spirits and broken lives.
Shoemaker and his gang are equal opportunity evil doers.
The irony of an anonymous comment full of massive generalizations and insults, calling me a human smoke screen.
Anyway, I think Andrew and Beckie are culpable, I just don’t know how much. They hid a lot from me. I wanted and still want to give them a chance to come forward, since I was under the impression from them they had broke ties with Shoemaker in 2019. I don’t know anymore. They have cut contact with me for coming forward with my name and story on the Frank Report, actually. And they told me so themselves recently. I was not aware they were avoiding me until recently and not aware of why. It’s been a shock and disappointment and now during the holiday season, something that is very painful for me at this time. I never wanted to hide them (or their culpability) from anyone. I probably naively thought they would easily step into the light with me.
Please be considerate of the many people who are tied up in this in different ways, how they may have very few avenues of support, they may be afraid, or actually threatened, or just not willing to risk themselves and their reputation. Andrew and Beckie may have access to more victims that I don’t know about as a kind of “halfway” point between being in the cult and out of it (just like with me), and may have their sensitive medical information, or personal details, or significant influence over them as ” spiritual healers” telling them they need to move on and forgive in order to heal (like they did with me).
They are loved by many people, many people who are also victims of Shoemaker, who will have great difficulty, like I did, believing anything wrong about the Bonners. It will be easier for them to think badly of me, a lowly member who used to clean people’s toilets and wash gutters…than the beloved doctors of the community. Imagine if we could get them to come forward? Not all absences of information are a plot against you or anyone, just fyi.
@December 14, 2022 at 2:16 pm Excellent comment, Ruth. Thank you for sharing it. My opinion, fwiw, is they’re still in denial and disassociated, which is how they were able to work over the years in that place, seeing what they saw. It’s a great shame. They are very much beloved and victims also in their own way. They gave their lives to that man and they would be deeply afraid right now both of him and their precarious positions in the structure.
So Frank is begging you to wrist filler for the Frank Report? Guess he got tired of JaYNE & Jana
Lay off whatever shit you are into tonight Becker and take a bow, none of this would even be possible without you. Not sure what wrist filling is but I’m not as savvy with the sex slang as you are. Must be good if you think Frank would be begging for it. Also if you are going to try to make a point go FULL CAPTARD or go home unless Jayne is an up and coming rap star or starting a K-POP ensemble. Crying on your cheap wine box about a mess you in fact created.
write
WRITE filler
Betty Ford Is Calkibg
Betty Ford is caulking
Definitely K-POP hahahaha
I think we have enough material here for a full blown stand up show at the Event Center on the Bitch. i mean BEACH. Throw one back for me, y’all.
Pass me that scarf and the XXL purple dildo. I’m craving bit of wrist filling with my swine twining.
Thanks
Fig I’m sure if you put efforts into writing about issues that interest you and produce an article that considers the broader context of what constitutes exploitation, Frank would post it and people would respond.
Ruth is doing an admirable job of expressing herself. Draw the line there and you wont have your feelings curdle into what sounds like envy. She is dominating sweet f’all. That you see it that way makes me understand you have a hard time living up to the principles one might find in a legitimate ashram – Surely they exist? despite Chetananda?
Fig is a snake here too, folks. Just FYI. They only dislike Shoemaker because they also got bit by him. Snake, or cockroach, something of that ilk that likes to crawl in darkness. Otherwise they’d come forward with their name.
Just remember this type of comment is indicative of the type of people Shoemaker would use to “enforce” his rule and for his victims to be shunned, silenced, exploited, blamed. You’d find the same type of lackeys in any dictatorship or toxic organization on the planet. They are also extremely culpable and some do indeed go to jail. These type of people are also rampant in the porn and prostitution industry. Some are also pimps (managers/producers/producers assistants) but some are a mixture of both prostitute and madam, and do a lot of the “grooming” behavior that tenderizes a person for abuse. Like Ghislaine Maxwell when she would befriend then systematically beguile and also demean girls she would then bring to Epstein. I don’t know who Fig is so this is all just my wide observations on the archetype they represent. I just know they’re someone in the ashram, someone who probably is way more culpable for all this mess than they want to admit.
What was I supposed to get out of the ashram Fig? As a young woman, what exactly did I not get?
Fig has credible information and clearly knows what they are talking about. They lived there during an important time and can contribute more if Ruth would quiet down
Do you think Fig is being muted by me?
Wake me up when the conversation contributes to getting J. Michael Shoemaker and his accomplices prosecuted.
Ruth, your disputatiousness is just perpetuating more of the same.
Take a deep breath. You don’t need to defend yourself to these losers. They are salivating with their fingers on the keyboards waiting to discredit and demean you in response to every statement you make. And it’s all done anonymously by cowards. You’re feeding their intense desire and need to matter.
“My next piece may be how porn and prostitution harms men”
Oh joy.
Porn and prostitution are icky. They are not “normalized” as Feminist Theory and Ruth insist. That they exist does not mean they are approved of. In fact prostitution is illegal in most places, and porn is hounded to the periphery. Like rats, they have always survived; that does not mean they are approved of.
Does porn really lead to violence in sex? Seems like it should, but does it really?Here’s the abstract of a large scale meta study that examined the evidence:
“Whether pornography contributes to sexual aggression in real life has been the subject of dozens of studies over multiple decades. Nevertheless, scholars have not come to a consensus about whether effects are real. The current meta-analysis examined experimental, correlational, and population studies of the pornography/sexual aggression link dating back from the 1970s to the current time. Methodological weaknesses were very common in this field of research. Nonetheless, evidence did not suggest that nonviolent pornography was associated with sexual aggression. Evidence was particularly weak for longitudinal studies, suggesting an absence of long-term effects. Violent pornography was weakly correlated with sexual aggression, although the current evidence was unable to distinguish between a selection effect as compared to a socialization effect. Studies that employed more best practices tended to provide less evidence for relationships whereas studies with citation bias, an indication of researcher expectancy effects, tended to have higher effect sizes. Population studies suggested that increased availability of pornography is associated with reduced sexual aggression at the population level. More studies with improved practices and preregistration would be welcome.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1524838020942754?journalCode=tvaa
So researchers have not come to a consensus that the effects are real. Just like video games haven’t been linked to the harms that they “should” cause.
I think both porn and video games are distasteful. But they’re probably not harmful.
Facts can be counterintuitive.
Excellent points and research.
Video games are fantasy. They are simulated violence. Sex work and pornography is not. It involves a real person with a real body, real life, real dreams, real risks.
A better analogy would be comparing how real life violent gore videos (like videos of beheadings, shootings, torture) affect the brains of people for good or ill.
Meta analysis’s fall apart in the face of people’s actual testimony from such industries. As well as people who have been subject to partners who have porn addictions ruin their marriages.
Another thing that you probably never will admit, is that so much of our society has normalized “ick” because it’s “man stuff” or “what men do/need.” We all know it’s gross and harmful and anti-family, but since we’ve been conditioned to accept it, then it is the floor from which we base all our perceptions of normality and acceptability, which still color our perceptions. Like imaging a soup with some gravel in it. And you’ve been told “we cant’ get it without the gravel any other way, and some of the gravel is actually healthy, didn’t you know?”
So then we have it permeate everything. More and more healthy food is replaced with gravel. Now replace food with sex in this analogy. Get it yet?
I can’t think of what video games replace really, as it’s so obvious that they’re just a kind of entertainment/game/leisure. Well, maybe one can argue about going outside/exercise vs video games. But yeah that’s another story entirely.
But let’s talk more about how it’s normalized.
For example, we have Andrew Tate being allowed back onto Twitter by Elon Musk, after we already know for a fact he is a violent misogynist who runs warehouses full of cam girls in Romania who he violently exploits, and is targeting boys (in a very sick way on platforms popular with youth on tik tok) with extremely violent rhetoric against women that treats all women like wh*res and etc (all the redpill stuff you’d expect from a fascist).
So here we have a violent pimp, making millions, that is being supported by billionaires, and we’re just supposed to accept it and accept hundreds of thousands of people like that, everywher. It’s tacitly allowed because it’s part of the “gravel soup” we’re supposed to just accept as our “civilization.” It’s a commercialized industry worth billions of dollars and we’re just supposed to accept it and the people pushing it as a “necessary evil.”
Do you know who I’m talking about btw or is this news too recent for you (regarding Tate)?
Also are you under some kind of mistaken belief that pimps are the same type of person as video game producers? Care to explain that one to me?
The end is near. Hey where’s that commenter that used to warn everyone about bad karma?
https://youtu.be/tUou2n5-_Jk
Porn and prostitutions are certainly not good for you. Both devalue a human being.
I doubt Ruth’s arguments will make any sense.
Ruth your attitude is brazenly biased. I think the real predator is greed.
Prostitutes are so greedy that they prey on men’s need for sex for money. They could do other work. They choose to be predators going after men. Putting those ‘ass’ on display to take advantage of men. Not for love or pleasurable intimacy but to take advantage of men pretending to be interested in arousal but just lying to him and taking his money – just to get money thorough selling to him her stinky ass.
Sick predatory women.
Well I think Ruth herself is feeling that greed. That itch for Chetananada’s fortune.
How many people know that if Chetananada goes to jail his fortune goes to the State of Oregon?
Doesn’t the State of Oregon want to open an investigation on him now? Now that there are millions of dollars on the table
Please correct me if I am wrong.
You two dimwits need to check yourselves. The first comment was too stupid to respond to, but the two of you together are too fucking ridiculous not to be called out. Stop the victim blaming misandry, creeps.
How about the State of Oregon Attorney General? Would they be a good person to ask to launch an investigation?
All the people he ripped off should be compensated
Should women be allowed to buy a man’s consent? I am a hot 50 years old woman and can get laid anytime. Free. I can even get paid for it since I can make the man pay for an expensive dinner.
So Ruth i have a fondness for less talk and less doubt about how we are going to do things. So when I’m in the mood I employ one of several men who are male ‘prostitutes ‘.
They need the money. I want sex no questions asked. So are you saying these poor guys are non consensual victims? Or is it just female prostitutes who have no right to consent to sex for money even where is is legal?
Great question Stella! I’d love Ruth to answer that one!
I wonder why there are not as many grown male prostitutes doing street work as there are women?
Men tend to package their prostitution work when its with women as escort work. They can wear a condom to protect their gonads from std’s and they dont have to worry so much about the physical strength differential, no torn vaginas/ anuses, nipples – not any where near the same levels of sexual violence.
Boys, however, are not quite so lucky. They are trafficked and used, abused and disposed of as we generally understand street (mostly female) sex workers to be. So, it is different for men, yes. Not so much for boys.
Women who do avail themselves of escorts, choose men and women. Who is using the young boys?
Men are using the young boys.
The vast majority of those who seek out sex trafficking rings explicitly for the abuse of children, are men.
Mothers will indeed be enablers of their child’s abuse, something like up to 40% of all trafficked children are pimped by their parents or other relatives. But the ones doing the raping of both boys and girls (and the physical abuse and torture to groom them into obedience) are overwhelmingly fathers and the other male buyers. In fact in reading cases the pattern is clear. The father starts sexually abusing his daughter or son at a very young age to normalize them to abuse, then starts pimping them out. . .
file:///C:/Users/rushw/Downloads/Parents%20as%20Pimps.pdf
There have been many researchers who have asked why the majority of buyers are men and not women.
Michael Salter (2013) says it sadistic abuse, “a manifestation of ideologies
of masculine sexual aggression operant within groups of abusive men, and means
whereby violence against children and young adults was infused with pleasure and
fantasies of absolute domination over others” (p.137).
When men who buy sex are interviewed anonymously about it, they know they are buying sex from someone who would otherwise not give consent without the money involved. They know they are not attractive, and so they know the money is a coercion. A form of control. Some will admit in private that they relish the fact they are able to haggle down the prices because they know the prostitute is desperately poor. They admit that without poverty as a driver they would not be able to buy the consent of young (relatively attractive) women. This demonstrates that men who buy sex know they are exercising an unfair power imbalance to get sexual gratification from someone who would not otherwise give it.
I personally believe that men are not inherently like this, but we live in a civilization which normalizes it and teaches it. I think men are inherently more likely to be risk takers (due to testosterone) but risk doesn’t have to translate into aggression and violence. Men are taught aggression, sadism, and dehumanization by a culture. I think a major issue why we are having so many mass shootings today is because men are being taught this at an unprecedented level, radicalized via the internet, poor education and violent dehumanizing acts of sex abuse either witnessed via porn or enacted upon them (victimized themselves).
These types of behaviors (getting a thrill by exercising a power imbalance over a person and forcing them to do what you want) often escalate in a process of normalization and then numbing (needing a greater fix).
Unfortunately our culture has been permeated with lies that somehow the porn industry is a benevolent force that is releasing us from our repressions, and it also acts in a vacuum and doesn’t involve real people with real lives who were really groomed and coerced and trafficked into it.
People also think there is a clear separation between porn and child sex abuse. There is not. Porn is the means for which coercive (antisocial) domination is normalized as well as sex trafficking as a whole (all porn recruitment involves grooming, pimping and sex trafficking.)
Porn is prostitution. It is not a “fantasy” when it involves real people being paid for sex acts. So it is a form of advertisement and cultural conditioning that not only teaches that all people can have their consent bought, it also continues to push the boundaries into more and more extreme content, such that you are then also taught that all people also have a price for which you can coerce them into extremely violent and degrading acts, in fact you can also coerce them via agents, managers, groups and owners and as long as you have a business license and a signature it’s “okay.”
Dr. Paul Wright of Indiana University to Esquire Magazine explains: “As types of pornography that were less common in the past—for example violence, this or that fetish—become more and more common and easily accessible, consumers get bored by them and need the extremity and deviance upped a notch to once again become aroused and excited.”
https://www.maxim.com/maxim-man/why-is-incest-porn-so-popular-2018-3/
The most common female role in porn is “teen”, while “daughter” is 6th and “sister” is 10th.
https://jonmillward.com/blog/studies/deep-inside-a-study-of-10000-porn-stars/
Porn necessarily has to try to lower the age of consent therefore as part of it’s billion dollar profit making. They need to groom teenagers and normalize pedophilia and incest in order to keep the cash flowing. They have to organize, plan and create SOP (standard operating procedures) with pedophiles. They have to hire lawyers and draft legislation to protect themselves and fellow abusers.
Could there be a form of ethical porn that we could regulate in a way that balanced people’s freedoms while also preventing victims and social harm? Yes. I believe so. But we can’t actually figure this out until we actually openly discuss the problem.
To quote philosopher Elizabeth Munich:
“No one person, no few people, can commit genocide, keep a slave-based economy going, or a worldwide child pornography trade. It simply is not possible. And
we already know that there are not enough monsters to do the work of extensive
evil in some way that would cut way down on all that work, all that need for reliable
personnel.”
https://sextortionfilm.com/
Please watch this film
https://greekreporter.com/2022/11/30/balenciaga-sexualizing-children/
https://greekreporter.com/2022/11/30/balenciaga-sexualizing-children/
Save the children
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/adidas-investigation-kanye-west-porn-yeezy-1234636568/amp/
Right now the Balenciaga scandal is penetrating everywhere. They are trying to normalize the sexual exploitation and abuse and profit of children through their bullshit fashion lines.
PHUCK all these people behind it and phuck all the people who stand by and do nothing.
There is a new phrase that has been coined, “ pedo chic”.
I’ve been boycotting in front of the store, but there are some random few.
We need to shake things up.
ZERO TOLERANCE FOR CHILD ABUSE.
Yes porn is all of the above, but child porn??? That’s another level . That’s when the game ends.
We. Don’t . Play .
Thank you for saying. This current scandal (the children with the BDSM teddy bears in order to sell handbags) is part of what “inspired” me to write about this topic at length. It’s absolutely infuriating. The elite seem to be trying to normalize depersonalized, abusive sex at every level, and there’s definitely a pedo angle here as well. It also seems like the entire media is doing it’s very best to avoid the topic, and “walk it off” like it never happened.
It reminds me of when Playboy had Brooke Shields pose as a 10 year old for their center spread. And it happened, and nobody did a thing about it. People still consider Hugh Hefner to be some kind of progressive, liberating hero. The porn/prostitution industry has always been connected to the exploitation of children. Always.
I don’t care if this topic makes me controversial or unpopular.. It needs to be controversial until it isn’t anymore. Every argument I have ever heard for porn being an inherently “good thing” never sat right for me, and as I grew I learned exactly how it’s irrational.
<3
We’re not here to read Ruth’s opinions
We came to share information but it seems that opportunity has passed and we should find a new platform; this one has been turned into the Ruth Show and has completely lost sight of the topic of Swami Chetananada.
Swami Chet is making a comeback. But Ruth offers a nice controversial topic, and people like that too. It’s not all about Chet. Or Raniere.
This sounds passive-aggresive. Are you sure that’s the right way to deal with a platform that is being so helpful to you?
Also, it must be apparent to you, since its the truth, that if you write an editorial piece and Frank thinks its worth printing – that will happen. Don’t be so envious of those who can and do. There is clearly nothing but your own self standing in the way.
I highly suggest if you want some sensitivity and empathy around your story and are uncomfortable with this forum reach out to Rich Read. He’s well versed on this story, respectful, sensitive and fact driven. Richread2020@gmail.com
Well, my money’s on Ruth. Rock (and many others) just can not argue without dumping ad hominems throughout — misandrist, crazy, nuts. She’s got you on every point and you refuse to answer her questions. How does it feel to be beaten by a woman? You like?
I have to wonder the motivation of the counter argument. No sane person would argue that women aren’t severely disadvantaged by current violent expectations and normalcies that have crept into sexual culture since the internet met porn. The logical conclusion is it’s the justification of one’s own proclivities, hmmm? Maybe an ad hominem of my own, but I don’t see another straight forward deduction, occam’s razor and all that.
Not sure ad hominem is right in this case. Rock and Penny dont know each other so it not really about the person so much as the position. Rock seems to be saying prostitution is OK as long as its legal but Ruth thinks its like the worst thing, so perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle?
Ruth and Rock are idiots in a certain way. Let’s keep this discussion focused on Swami Chetanananda and not on all this other material. Adi Samraj Da, or Adi Da, formerly Franklin Jones, Bubba Free John, the late guru who had a community in Fiji (he studied with Rudi), was seriously (purportedly) into major league debauchery. Drugs, manipulation of his students, and abuses of all kinds. You know, standard spiritual teacher behavior.
One story about him described an incident whereby he fucked the wife of one his students, in order to teach the man about non-attachment. This is a good example (if it’s true) about how Guru’s use their own desires and flip it around and make it about some bullshit teaching.
Someone should have walked up to Adi Da, and punched his fucking lights out in a very violent manner. It would have served him right. Then, he could have spent some time pondering forgiveness of the person who smacked him.
Spiritual teachers deserve a KICK in the balls. For a whole slew of reasons. Does anyone agree with me?
I agree with you
This is an interesting discussion. I challenge both Ruth and Rock to put themselves in the position of the other person, to understand each other, and realize that neither is coming from a place of hate, misogyny, or misandry.
We’ve been programmed by media, entertainment, news, politicians and educators to fear each other and to envy what we perceive the other has that we don’t.
The catch is that neither group actually has the privilege or power that they accuse the other of having. The average man is not a professional athlete or CEO, and the average woman is not a fitness model or fashion icon. Most of us are trying to get by, and our bodies are hurting from years of hard work. If we saw what others actually had in the bank (which is not much, and some cases, nothing), or how much pain they were in, and what it took for them to get out of bed and get through the day, would we rethink some of our beliefs about how much easier or better so and so has it compared to us?
What if we stopped pointing fingers and really tried to understand each other’s pain and fears, and hopes? What if we realized that our goals aren’t all that different, and that we each have more to gain from helping each other than from hurting each other?
I wish you both well.
“We’ve been programmed by media, entertainment, news, politicians and educators to fear each other”
What do you mean, “we”? Speak for yourself.
You claim to be full of love and understanding yet are full of insults for everyone else (particularly Moira Penza). No, “we” have not been programmed. Maybe you have been. Stop speaking for everyone else.
And you are not full of insults? Seriously?