Editor’s note: I do not know what readers will make of this. Perhaps Suneel has a mind of his own. He was asked to do a critique of Keith Raniere’s biography and was taunted by Bangkok, who claimed he would not be able to say anything negative about it. And lo and behold, Suneel not only accepted the challenge, his critique of Raniere’s online bio is anything but flattering. This naturally begs the question, if Suneel is indeed brainwashed, how can he criticize the man who brainwashed him?
In the post on FrankReport, “Is Suneel a Textbook Cult-Follower, Mentally Incapable of Criticizing Raniere’s Personal Behavior?”, Pious Bangkok challenged me to critically review Keith’s biography.
This biography has come under a lot of criticism and people have used it to claim that Keith Raniere is narcissistic and dishonest.
I have never heard him make any of these claims in person or in any recorded videos, but I recognize that he allowed this biography to be online for over a decade.
Let’s take a look at it.
Below is his biography, taken from a snapshot of KeithRaniere.com from Dec 3, 2004.
Executive Success Programs – Keith Raniere, co-founder of Executive Success Programs, Inc. (ESP), is a scientist, mathematician, philosopher, and entrepreneur. An unusually gifted individual, Mr. Raniere’s unique abilities were evident at a very early age. Among them:
- He spoke in full sentences by the age of one was reading by the age of two
- At the age of eleven, he was an Eastern Coast Judo Champion.
- At age 12, he taught himself high school mathematics in less than a day and taught himself three years of college mathematics by age 13.
- He plays many musical instruments and taught himself to play piano at a concert level by age 12
- He was entered in the Guinness Book of World Records for “Highest IQ” in 1989.
- He has been noted as one of top three problem-solvers in the world
- He was a millionaire by the age of 30 and worth $50 million by the age of 32
Mr. Raniere is perhaps best known as the creator of Rational Inquiry™ – the transformational model at the center of Executive Success Programs’ trainings. Rational Inquiry™ is a science, based on the belief that the more consistent an individual’s beliefs and behavior patterns are, the more successful they will be in everything they do. The invention, which Mr. Raniere laid the groundwork for as a teenager, is considered by many to be one of most dramatic developments in the field of human potential today.
But despite his extraordinary talents and accomplishments, what often strikes people most about Mr. Raniere is how down to earth he is. He has the unique ability to relate to virtually anyone, and is known by his friends as a prankster extraordinaire.
My Analysis
I would tell Keith that this is a preposterous biography because it contains unsubstantiated claims, comes across as strange and arrogant, and does not include any of his relevant achievements.
I don’t know why he allowed this to be on his personal website for over a decade.
Let’s go point-by-point.
“Keith Raniere, co-founder of Executive Success Programs, Inc. (ESP), is a scientist, mathematician, philosopher, and entrepreneur. An unusually gifted individual, Mr. Raniere’s unique abilities were evident at a very early age.”
I think this introductory paragraph comes across as boastful and sophomoric. One usually does not self-describe as “unusually gifted” or having “unique abilities.” I don’t think such claims should be on a personal website.
It is also imprecise. Keith rightfully takes credit for being the co-founder of Executive Success Programs, Inc. (ESP), but the biography states he is a scientist, mathematician, philosopher, and entrepreneur without any providing definitions, credentials, or evidence.
“He spoke in full sentences by the age of one was reading by the age of two”
Even if this is true, I don’t think it belongs in a professional biography and probably strikes people as arrogant.
“At the age of eleven, he was an Eastern Coast Judo Champion.”
As above, I don’t think this claim belongs in his current biography. I don’t think it’s a rare accomplishment. I grew up knowing kids who became national TaeKwonDo champions, but I doubt they include that fact in their professional biographies. Finally, without specifics, this claim is meaningless. For example, how big is the district ‘Eastern Coast’? How many tournaments did he win and lose? How many participants were there in his division? Who did he defeat to become the champion?
“At age 12, he taught himself high school mathematics in less than a day and taught himself three years of college mathematics by age 13.”
Keith told me that because of his Waldorf education, he started math late and when he first looked at high school math books, he discovered he intuitively “got it.”
That is not an ordinary achievement, to be sure, but the claim feels to me like it’s trying to build the myth of Keith Raniere. I think there were better ways to showcase his mathematical skills.
“He plays many musical instruments and taught himself to play piano at a concert level by age 12”
I think “concert level” is a bit grandiose. It’s not a standardized term, so it could mean anything. It would be more humble, and more persuasive, with more details or videos of him playing.
I never saw Keith play when he was 12, of course. I have seen videos of him playing when he was in his forties or fifties. Based on the videos, in which he plays pieces like Grieg’s Piano Concerto in A minor, it is my opinion that Keith is proficient and able to play serious repertoire.
By the way, I am a pianist as well and one time, when I spoke with him when he was in prison, Keith asked me what I thought of his piano playing in those videos. I told him candidly that his musicality was good but his technical execution was sloppy at times. He agreed with me.
Playing “many musical instruments” is imprecise. It would have been appropriate, and impressive, to list them all.
“He was entered in the Guinness Book of World Records for “Highest IQ” in 1989.”
Keith Raniere appeared in the 1989 Australian edition of the Guinness Book of Records. To my knowledge, he did not appear in any other editions. That year, the editors of the Guinness Book of Records chose to retire the category.
His claim is true. If it were my biography, I would mention it too, but I would also cite the year and edition and provide a link to it.
“He has been noted as one of top three problem-solvers in the world”
I think this claim comes across as absurd. First, it does not mention where it was noted. As written, for the reader to believe this requires an extraordinary level of credulity. Also, because of the stigma of “cult” and “brainwashed,” anyone in the public who reads this claim may conclude that every student in ESP/NXIVM believed this claim, as stated, without any evidence. I would need to see the evidence before I would repeat this claim.
“He was a millionaire by the age of 30 and worth $50 million by the age of 32”
It is my understanding that this claim is about his net worth while he was operating a previous company, Consumers’ Buyline (CBI).
People might assume from this claim that Keith Raniere is still worth millions of dollars. To my knowledge, this is not true.
It does not mention that CBI closed down and ultimately was worth zero dollars.
According to media reports and public filings, it was alleged in court to be a pyramid scheme, even though it was never officially determined to be a pyramid scheme. Ultimately, Keith and others entered into a consent order with the NY State Attorney General, “with no admission of wrongdoing,” a fine of $40,000, and a condition that Keith would be permanently banned from “promoting, offering or granting participation in a chain distribution scheme.”
It is my understanding that the reason CBI had to shut down was due to fallout from bad PR and mounting legal fees.
I think that not mentioning the ultimate collapse of CBI, in a claim meant to impress people with his wealth-building and entrepreneurial skill, was a serious omission.
“Mr. Raniere is perhaps best known as the creator of Rational Inquiry™ – the transformational model at the center of Executive Success Programs’ trainings. Rational Inquiry™ is a science based on the belief that the more consistent an individual’s beliefs and behavior patterns are, the more successful they will be in everything they do. The invention, which Mr. Raniere laid the groundwork for as a teenager, is considered by many to be one of most dramatic developments in the field of human potential today.”
The last sentence makes a vague, bold and unsubstantiated claim. It does not state who considers Rational Inquiry™ to be “one of the most dramatic developments in the field of human potential today.” It would have been more persuasive without the last sentence.
“But despite his extraordinary talents and accomplishments, what often strikes people most about Mr. Raniere is how down to earth he is. He has the unique ability to relate to virtually anyone, and is known by his friends as a prankster extraordinaire.”
I think a professional biography can showcase one’s personality, but subtly, with examples, and modesty. To me, the assertion of “extraordinary talents and accomplishments” comes across as pompous.
Also, I am puzzled as to why the remark about being a “prankster extraordinaire” was included.
To me, being a “prankster” is not a positive trait; it’s someone that has fun at other people’s expense. I don’t know if Keith is a “prankster extraordinaire” – I’ve only known him since he was in his prison. But say it’s true. It seems inappropriate and strange to put in a professional biography and certainly a bizarre way to end it.
Conclusion
In my opinion, this biography needs a lot of work. It should never have been published, let alone allowed to remain on the internet for a decade. The claims are unsubstantiated and tend to promote myth rather than fact. Depending on the truth of the CBI situation, it might also contain lies by omission.
I doubt that anyone was ever persuaded to take an ESP/NXIVM course because of this biography.
But does having such a ludicrous biography mean Keith is a despicable person?
The reason I am advocating for Keith is not because I believe he is a deity. Of course, he has flaws. But I don’t think he got justice, and that’s why I am here. And I will continue to tell it as I see it.
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
[…] can read my breakdown of Keith’s infamous biography on FrankReport. I have no problem calling out false or improbable claims, no matter the […]
I like your analysis, Suneel. I agree with your points and think this type of representation, by others, is one of the reasons Raniere is seen as arrogant. He is responsible for allowing others to develop these things. It is not my experience of him that he touts any of the claims made.
Raniere controlled everything. Especially his image. Your portrayal of him as a hapless victim doesn’t ring true. It won’t square with the evidence. Especially Raniere’s own words and writing. Of course, Raniere didn’t directly make those claims. Keith had other people make the claims on his behalf.
Use logic. Who in Nxivm was around Keith as “an 11-year-old judo champion”?
Who was there when Keith mastered speech and math as a baby/child?
Or won the 100-yard dash?
Obviously, such ridiculous claims came from Keith. No one in Nxivm. Even knew him as a child.
Some very bright people are scammed – a UK survey found particularly bright ones were victims of scare scammers for example and then the person finds it very hard to admit they are wrong. It is more the difficulty in admitting you might be wrong about Nxivm here rather than that he is brainwashed that is the issue.
What is interesting is why people who took the courses did not read the website first and be put off by this? Most of us do some due diligence – if I saw that, I would run a mile.
Most of this old content was written by Ivy Nevares and possibly others assisting her. Keith rarely personally contributed to printed material – he set a high bar and had other people do the work so that when there were mistakes, it was an ethical breach against him, and the authors would have to double down and work twice as hard for scrappy pay in the name of healing their breach.
When you consider this, Keith almost preferred that such boastful language was used because it benefited him in two ways: 1, people would read it and possibly believe it and elevate his status; 2, he could hold the boastful language as a wagering card against the authors and further obligate them to future labor in the name of “their personal growth.”
I find it interesting that Suneel’s articles that are the smartest and most refined get the most comments. The truth gets under people’s skin, and it shows.
Nah, bro. Look at the other comments. The most popular article is about Suneel wiping Clare Bronfman’s butt.
Watching This
Actually, I’m just bored because of COViD life besides the fact I’m a crank with no life.
BTW:
Are you female, single, and looking to mingle?
What would cause Suneel to reveal that he helped Clare Bronfman attend to her toilet needs in the first place?
Most people who are in a position to help another with such things don’t bring it up at all. Please! It is a private, and not necessarily an easy gesture of helpfulness, of kindly service to another, whose abilities to care for herself, or himself, have been compromised somehow. There is respectfulness, however, when you tend to someone’s needs for assistance.
The one who helps anyone in these circumstances would, most likely, not say any such thing. You are trying to help, not to expose or humiliate a person, based upon anyone’s various physical or even psychosomatic symptoms.
Suneel, trying to establish his “veracity” and to paint a brief portrait of Clare Bronfman, instead has publicly and quite densely, (very likely), ADDED to her discomfort, embarrassment and even to her sense of humiliation.
So. Congratulations, Chakravorthy.
This public airing by Charavothy has been significanct to me, ever since Suneel Chakravorthy initially opened his piehole. What kind of an (intellectualized) insensitive, hypocritical dumbass is really showing ITSELF?
Oink oink.
Is that what all of this Suneel posting is about ” getting under people’s skin”?
So the whole justice for all thing is b.s..
As expected.
Watching this-
Or it could be we are genuinely annoyed like when an in-law is in your home and you want them the F—out.
He forgot to mention the part where he got thrown in jail for his many crimes and how he was known the world over for branding women and running a sex cult.
Also my daughter started reading at 3 but if I put that in a resume the people reading it would think I had gone bonkers. Lots of kids are early readers. She also used to play piano but doesn’t that much anymore.
I wouldn’t put that in her resume either and she was graded. Because when you are professionally taught you do exams and they grade you in piano so if he had actually learnt piano he would have certificates and grades. In Australia if you go far enough in your grading you can even use those grades to help you make up the points to finish high school because of the hours needed to finish. Its fairly obvious that Keith was/is a con man.
I would love for him to do an actual IQ test but I doubt he would actually do one. Narricistics don’t like to be caught out.
If you type “sunee” into the Google search engine, the first suggestion to pop up is “Suneel Chakravorty”.
If you keep typing “suneel c” the 2nd suggestion to pop up is “Suneel Chakravorty NXIVM”.
If you search for “Suneel Chakravorty” the first result is:
Say What?!? Suneel to Judge: ‘I Brought Clare Bronfman to and From the Bathroom, Lowering Her Down Onto and Raising Her up From the Toilet Seat’!
https://artvoice.com/2020/09/04/say-what-suneel-to-judge-i-brought-clare-bronfman-to-and-from-the-bathroom-lowering-her-down-onto-and-raising-her-up-from-the-toilet-seat/
Now THAT’S some next-level search engine optimization.
To Suneel-
You have demanded greater transparency in regards to Keith Raniere’s criminal trial.
Please explain. I am attempting to understand your side of things. I am positive people other than myself would appreciate you sharing.
The court record and transcript are all freely available. All pertinent information is available.
What, when, and where has there not been transparency with the exception of Kieth’s deportation from Mexico.
You make public pronouncements and do not explain the basis. I don’t understand. Please respond.
Just for the sake of clarity, let me point out, once again, that Keith was not deported from Mexico — and he was not extradited from Mexico (Both of those proceedings would involve an adjudication in a Mexican court). Instead, Keith was expelled from Mexico in compliance with the country’s Consitution and several applicable statutes. That’s the reason why this “issue” is not going to result in him getting a new trial.
“Here’s an easy way to figure out if you’re in a cult: If you’re wondering whether you’re in a cult, the answer is yes.”
-Source Unknown
I would say that maybe if you are sure you´re not in a “cult”, perhaps that’s when you are the most “brainwashed”.
How interesting to qualify a data as supposed, making an assumption
The biography describes verifiable data, the analysis makes a judgment based on the critic’s beliefs, but the data is the data.
To whom it concerns:
Re Data & Kieth:
Keith never had any true “scientific” data. He never conducted any research to produce any data. Real data is quantifiable or empirical in nature. In videos of Keith, he constantly speaks of data, “the data shows” or “the data points”. What data was he referring to? Did anyone actually study Keith’s “data”?
Keith Raniere’s adherents, much like Keith, use the word without meaning because the ‘data’ is nonexistent.
Am I lying? Show me one scientific study that Keith Raniere or any of his followers produced to prove Rational Inquiry actually worked. None of NXIVM’s members will ever produce Keith’s research because it does not exist.
I will no longer be making data posts based on bad data. The over usage of the word data obfuscates the meaning of data. I made a bunch of flippant posts to emphasize my point.
Point being the Nxivm 5’s usage of the word data for data that does not exist is absolutely ridiculous.
As it pertains to the United States legal system.
Thank you.
Suneel, what are your thoughts on Raniere’s baby rape theory, his women love rape theory, and his children love being molested theory? Do you agree with them or denounce them? It’s one thing to find an EM helpful, quite another to agree with this type of thinking.
I find it telling that no Nxian will answer these questions. They’ve been asked numerous times by others on FR. Why are all of you afraid to comment on this?
Also, about that bio – Keith most probably wrote it – at the very least, he was aware of it over a decade ago – check the a cappella thread where they comment on how such a “humble” man could have a bio with these highly exaggerated claims. He could have changed it then but he did not, because he wanted it that way to reel in unsuspecting marks.
And the prankster remark kinda reminds me of that horrible movie he wanted to make with Vicente where, in the end, the mentor turns out to be the villain. I really believe he took great pleasure in telling people who he really was and watching them ignore it. Perhaps he used it to test his power over his flock.
Oh, and do you believe Raniere can control the weather, that his sperm has special powers, that he will die if any member of his harem sleeps with other men, and that he was throwing up blood for fifteen minutes when Cami showed some independent thinking?
Please prove us wrong with some answers. Show us that you have nothing to hide.
These are the real questions we should be asking, Suneel.
Good post. The cat & mouse game he played doesn’t get enough run. Culminating with branding his fucking initials… Imagine how he’d be pushing the envelope in 2021 if brave people didn’t help eviscerate the fraud.
This is petty. But most Harvard grads do not go around announcing that at every turn. It is frowned upon in the Harvard community. Most say they went to school “back East” or some euphemism. It is tacky. But beyond that, it gives the impression that this is your crowning achievement and you peaked. It’s like an ex-high school jock always bringing up the game-winning catch into their 40s.
Jealousy
No kiddo. I also went to college ” back east”.
More like empathetic embarrassment. To inspire jealousy in others, you’d probably need to do something other than be the redundant remainders of a criminal racketeering cult with strong paedophilic and murderous overtones.
Suneel is attempting to establish himself as the de facto spoke person of Nxivm over Nicki. Both Suneel and Nicki are jockeying for status. We love them both and wish it would stop. They do not even see it!
Did you try an EM? I think if you can find the hole, you can do a full factory reset on their data banks. You’ll need a paper clip.
I remember reading Keith Raniere’s bio before taking ESP classes, and thinking, “Why ‘scientist, mathematician, philosopher, and entrepreneur’? Why 4 things? It sounds pretty funny because people usually stop at 3.”
But I also remember thinking at some point later, “I wonder if he wrote his own bio or if someone else did, and for some reason, he just didn’t think it was important enough to change it?” I don’t know the answer, but I do think that understanding why Keith does the things he does is a lot more difficult than most people seem to believe.
This is not shocking at all. Suneel and the rest of us at NXIVM believed we were actually critical thinkers. So it’s no question that Suneel would write something like this. It’s not damning at all of Keith because Suneel turns it on its face in the last paragraph claiming that there was prosecutorial misconduct. He so believes that Keith got a raw deal and is the one who is actually the victim here. How many court cases has Suneel attended in his life? The questions he has asked in many ways have nothing to do with due process. Instead, he as directed by Keith focus on side issues that have some appearance of wrongfulness such as what they call “the abduction in Mexico.” This is how NXIVM psychology operates. Draw questions around the parameters of an issue to subvert the actual issue at question. What Suneel really fails to see is that he is manipulating information for Keith’s benefit at the behest of Keith. This is what we all did in NXIVM. We always talked about bad manipulation as if there is a lie and we were to question those who said we were manipulative by asking them where is the lie? The lie in NXIVM is that Keith, Nancy, proctors, coaches, or whoever it was giving someone feedback knew more about the person receiving feedback than the person knew. It’s simply not true that Keith knows more about Suneel than Suneel knows about himself. To release oneself from the grips of the NXIVM psychology, this was the place where I started. Frank, enough of this glorification of Keith and Suneel and playing into this mumbo jumbo. By perpetuating this discussion, you are giving voice to devilish minds and further hampering the healing of the true survivors whom you say you saved from the clutches of Keith. You too have been played and are a very good actor in this where Keith is the central player. And as a sociopath, he relishes being that central player. I pray for all to be revealed the truth in due time. And for those NXIVM 5 to be released from the clutches of NXIVM’s malignant psychology.
Very well written.
“The questions he has asked in many ways have nothing to do with due process. Instead, he as directed by Keith focus on side issues that have some appearance of wrongfulness such as what they call ‘the abduction in Mexico’. This is how NXIVM psychology operates. Draw questions around the parameters of an issue to subvert the actual issue at question.”
Excellent insight. This is why giving voice to devilish minds is helpful…to bring out these insights that can help others avoid falling for the same manipulative techniques.
There are some people who have not yet woken up as to who Keith really is. If you look at Keith’s body of work, it is impossible not to realize that he’s a conman. FR is the place where the truth is being revealed to the remaining people stuck in the clutches of NXIVM’s malignant psychology.
The truth is being revealed on FR and people are still having lightbulbs go off. If the price is Keith getting to think he’s still a central player – enjoy it, Vanguard. Hold this joy dearly for the next 120.
“Draw questions around the parameters of an issue to subvert the actual issue at question.”
What surprises me is that with all of the exposure to information Suneel has had, he has not managed to see through this yet. Even if he’s a Johnny-come-lately to Raniere and his remaining group, one would imagine that he’d be capable of tuning in to these manipulation tactics. Instead, he wants to be what? A good little robot?
Thank you for putting things so well. What you have observed is certainly one very useful way to wake up and to release the “spring” contained in this kind of mindtrap, or life-trap. Again and again, things can come down to “Who do you trust?” Bait and switch can be a psychological game, but once you see it in action, who would choose such a mindfuck scheme and dream that it is helpful, or healing?
You are all that you have, really. That’s where and how to learn about what trust is or can be. No one else can do anyone’s inner work for them.
These Nxivm/DOS pretenders to the “throne” have had their heads in a narcissistic swamp made up of malintent and “clever” pretenses, consciously being disguised as self-help and pretending to sell some indefinable advancement, all judged by Raniere and his henchwomen.
It is most likely that whether he understands it or not, Suneel is really experiencing his very own, personal sexual and emotional entrapment. He is using “idealistic” argumentation and weak-tea social philosophizing as his cover to keep freaking out, repeatedly.
I see him in a battle for his own sexual identity and tend to ignore the contents of his blathering, while waiting to see if he will come out of his costume and simply get real. What does he REALLY want?
But he is burdened with acculturated and also, personalized SHAME about sexuality, in my observation. He is far from alone, but he is holding back, from himself, from his very core, perhaps anger and pain, which is still too deeply interred to see, as yet.
So. How closely will Suneel decide to look…at himself? Where and when, Chakravorty? Where and when and how? There is only now to awaken, and this will not, cannot, be avoided.
It seems to me that Chakravorty is in way over his head, like a two-year-old clamping onto a loaded gun. Also, I am aware of just how easy it is to knock Suneel right off of his little high horse. But he is not ready. I am ready. The point is to do no harm. Anyone who wishes harm onto Suneel is the opposite of being anyone who is able to present any solutions for him.
He needs to dismantle his own false front of self-righteousness and to feel “all right” about himself. The last thing that he would find helpful would be to be made to feel perpetually “wrong”. I don’t feel that Suneel sees it yet, that essentially, his “battle” is with himself. He is using Nxivm as his temporary arena of disguise, but the one whom he is harming is Suneel Chakravorty. He will see. Sooner or later, guaranteed.
His heart will need to open up, on his own, by his own understandings. But Suneel’s poorly arranged MENTAL trap is not that difficult for him to overcome. The well of feeling is deeper, however. He can do it, but the matter of his heartful and more private feelings is distinctly a work in progress, wherein, for now, Suneel is whirling upon the tenterhooks of his very own regression, and he is being rather assertive, and quite publicly so, about keeping himself stuck.
Of course, this is an opinion. Although based upon a combination of analysis and experience, it is still just my observation. While I stand by it, it is without expectation, so far as whether anyone agrees or disagrees.
Extremely well written! Would you be able to point to some more data?
Thank you for this genuine insight, wish it were an editorial. All the very best to you.
“Andy” and others have objected to my characterization of Keith Raniere as The World’s Smartest Child Rapist™.
The only argument I have seen them make is that Raniere was not charged or convicted of rape. While this is true, it is hardly the case that something is false unless it is charged and proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal court.
Open challenge: offer data that leads one to doubt the numerous credible allegations of child rape made against Keith that stretch back for many years.
BONUS POINTS if you explain his documented “rape-able baby” comments in a way that makes them innocent.
I’m listening with open ears.
It is true that just because something isn’t proven in the court law doesn’t mean it’s not false. However, what you’re describing is a type of vigilante justice. I recommend you watch “The Crucible”. That might be a society that you are okay with but not me.
That’s a long-winded way of saying you can’t offer data that leads one to doubt the numerous credible allegations of child rape made against Keith that stretch back for many years.
Nor can you innocently explain the documented “rape-able baby” comments.
Several of us having been asking about the latter for a while and no Nxian has touched it with a ten-foot pole. Telling.
Trying to change the subject by accusation works in ESP/NXIVM seminars and EMs, but not here.
You know, when the second superseding indictment was filed against Keith Raniere in federal court, WHAT happened?
His “lady-loves” started to fold, one after another, offering guilty pleas to their individual charge “plates” and starting to try to bargain this SEXUAL stuff down.
This has been seen and universally noted, unless one is still gripped by Raniere and Nxivm, stuck in the cult’s stranglehold and its traps.
Particularly amusing was watching who let her house of cards collapse first. That would be his clever co-creator, Nancy Salzman.
Nancy Salzman had a lot to lose. So, she even pushed in front of her daughter, Lauren, to cop a plea deal. This is a biographical notation, regarding Nancy Salzman’s lifelong conduct as a sociopathic personality, who, in the long run, will fool no one more than she has fooled herself. She has carved her own future now, into a heart of stone.
My only query to Nancy Salzman is “What boundary did you ever keep, to protect your own two daughters?”
Al Capone was never convicted of anything except tax evasion. Yet, most people are aware he was more than just a tax evader.
In fact, someone defending Al by saying he shouldn’t be referred to as a criminal and was never actually convicted of any crimes except not paying taxes (something most people have done), would be thought to have a screw loose.
Good point. Hope it gets home.
I’m actually glad to see a NXIVM supporter isn’t able to only see Keith as a deity. Thank you for posting, Frank.
Shocking! Suneel Blasts Raniere’s Boastful Website Biography, Calls it ‘Ludicrous’
Why is it SHocking! It is a response to a dishonest question. It is fairly the opinion of Suneel, so why is it shocking! Because you supposed that he must be unable to do it?
“I have never heard him make any of these claims in person or in any recorded videos, but I recognize that he allowed this biography to be online for over a decade”. An that is was is used as a weapon against Mr. Raniere. Does he ever say it was that? No records
Who here is perfect and has no flaws? So what? We are all human beings – why waste so much time criticizing other people?
We are not all leaders of a criminal racketeering cult; that honour falls to very few. Thanks for the data on perfection though – reeling with shock to learn it doesn’t exist.
The data definitely implies perfection is nonexistent.
NFW, Nxians love them some strawman arguments formed as questions, don’t they? And pointing out the blindingly obvious.
The cherry on top is frequently a self-referential and self-defeating conclusion in question form.
Nothing like criticizing other people for criticizing other people…
This stuff is pure gold for a course in critical thinking and logic. Final exam: read FR and identify the three most common fallacies employed by acolytes of The World’s Smartest Child Rapist™. Give examples and discuss.
You just gave me a whole lesson plan😂
👍🏻 Always glad to be of assistance.
Anonymous 10:44 am
None of us is perfect! We all have faults. People make mistakes.
But none of us except for Keith took a picture of a 15-year-old girl with her legs spread and kept it saved to a computer hard drive.
This post really resonates with me – at the end of the day, we need to make sure that the justice system is made transparent regardless of how we “feel” about the person or persons on trial.
Why? Raniere, et al, were requested to be transparent by the Dalai Lama and failed to do so. In fact, they did the opposite. Why should his followers now get to request of others what they were requested of and couldn’t do themselves?
Suneel speaks to the deeper truth. He is a fascinating man.
The word for truthier truths than Truth, is Lie.
Suneel for president.
I salute you, Suneel, for your determination and critical thinking.
The degree of delicate hand-holding along the path of critical thinking skills by a graduate of Harvard is again shocking.
Suneel is a great advertisement for trade school and a down payment on a condo, instead of college.
Truth. If only I’d been clever enough when young and desperate to build bridges for humanity, to have opted for Engineering over Philosophy. Hindsight wags a finger, says “i told you so” very often, but, my subject came with a lifetime of consolation, so there’s that when the boiler breaks down and the car won’t start😂
Suneel went to Harvard University, but not the Harvard University you are thinking of:
https://www.extension.harvard.edu/
Remember Siobhan from Nxivm said she went to Harvard University when she really went to Harvard University extension school. Yep! You’ve been snowed.
Anonymous at 6:21 pm
Is this true?
An alumnus of Harvard is verifiable.
Extension School,
Suneel is the only person who can verify the validity of my statement.
No University in the United States will release such information without the consent of the student.
Let’s see a picture of Suneel in his cap and gown. 🙂
Hmmm.
If someone puts a college on their resume in the USA, can’t employers verify? Or do they need a signed release from the graduate?
What if one is an alumnus of the same school Suneel attended?
There must be a way to check. I’ve seen shows and read articles where con artists get busted for lying about their education…
—If someone puts a college on their resume in the USA, can’t employers verify? Or do they need a signed release from the graduate?
Yes, the employers can verify the information, but Suneel would have to grant them written permission and sign off on it.
A sign-off by the student granting permission is required by all colleges and universities in the United States.
Once they have sign-off, the employer then contacts the University directly.
Additionally that’s the reason I said
“Let’s see a photo of Suneel in cap and gown at his Harvard Graduation. The extension schools graduation is a little different. 😂
It’s clear what Suneel’s mission is – to seek justice in an injust system and he is taking on this case because of the grave and clear injustices. It has nothing to do with being a “cult follower”. Well done.
Nope. He’s “taking on this case” because of Keith Raniere. Suneel didn’t join The Innocence Project. Come on! At least try to seem impartial and honest.
What is not impartial nor honest about my comment? Suneel even shared that he had one brief conversation with Keith before the trial went down so I don’t think he took on this case because of Keith. I think this article demonstrates an individual who thinks for themself and makes his own decisions.
I do think it would be a good idea to get Keith’s case in front of the Innocence Project – if they experienced or saw the grave injustices at trial, it would be difficult for them to turn down such an opportunity!
What’s stopping you or anyone else from putting this “data” in front of The Innocence Project?
Suneel is like Ralph Nader!
Suneel should be a sperm donor.
Transparency of the legal system is super important for everyone regarding justice and equality, don’t really see why it’s an issue for people.
Because of all the cases, you are choosing a privileged man who abused women and children and had unlimited funds to put on a defense.
We aren’t in Belarus.
Note to Claviger (and everybody else) who read the response from the poster known as “TWO LAWYERS”.
I have evidence to prove that this poster is not a real lawyer (nor 2 lawyers, lol).
QUOTE from fake lawyer:
==============
The people who kidnapped Keith are guilty of felonies. This is a total violation of the constitution.
==============
Claviger should realize that no 3rd party LAWYER (who just heard about this case from a friend) would ever word a legal opinion using such ‘definite’ language, especially on a public forum.
This person is, therefore, not a lawyer.
Only a SHILL (for Keith or NXIVM) would use the word “kidnapped” to describe the deportation of Keith from Mexico.
The problem with NXIVM shills is that they’re too dense & narcissistic to realize how to say something in a way that appears ‘neutral’, so as to not reveal their true agenda.
QUOTE from fake lawyer:
==============
We know the law in Mexico too and it was also a violation. If Keith doesn’t win his appeal at the first level we are certain it will be overturned by the Supreme Court.
==============
No REAL lawyer would claim that a violation of Mexican law, which happened inside Mexico, would lead to an automatic reversal of charges inside the USA with 100% certainty.
…Especially when the Supreme Court has already ruled that even if suspects are kidnapped from Mexico, they can still be charged and convicted in the USA. It’s settled law YET this alleged ‘lawyer’ (LOL) is arguing as though they are ignorant of the law.
Again, this cannot be a REAL lawyer —- since it sounds like they are repeating canned gibberish from “Camp Keith”.
QUOTE from fake lawyer:
==============
The law teaches objectivity and only basing knowledge on data and personal integrity.
We have read Suneel’s writings and he is obviously a man of integrity.
==============
Firstly, this person talks about the importance of being ‘objective’ (unemotional and unbiased) YET he/she has previously contradicted that claim by saying that Keith will be freed by the Supreme Court with 100% certainty, LOL.
Duh. It’s a shill, not a lawyer. They can’t even obey their own ‘objective’ principles, LOL.
Also… This person has ‘warmed up’ to Suneel in a bizarre way, for a lawyer.
No REAL lawyer would warm up to a total stranger (who’s defending a child sex offender) so publicly and definitively.
Only a shill for NXIVM would do that.
Claviger should recognize that no lawyer would speak the way this person is speaking.
Lawyers tend to speak in a manner that suggests relative strengths or weaknesses of cases. Real lawyers don’t say “This is absolutely gonna happen” the way that this FAKE lawyer is saying, lol.
Have a nice day. 🙂
I do not disagree with any of PB’s observations and assertions in this comment.
Suneel, you’d be a good person to ask about this since you are still loyal and are smart, and engaged with FR.
Nobody to my knowledge, and I have been here for years, has ever provided an example of what specifically you are getting out of this. Can you please show specific content from the curriculum that has contributed to your belief in ESP and how it improved your life? Because I don’t get it.
For example, FR has posted some examples of questions from the curriculum that showed a cartoonish grammar lesson. It discussed how the placement of a comma can be used to change the meaning of a sentence. This is something people learn around the 3rd grade. What would you, a Harvard educated graduate, get out of something like that and why would you pay thousands of dollars for it?
There’s a photo of Keith staring at an equation written on a chalkboard. It looked to me like total nonsense and mathematical gibberish. Did you and Keith ever engage in conversations about advanced math concepts and did he impress you, or did you feel he was lying?
Hi Ice-nine, the ESP trainings helped me understand and manage my emotions more effectively. For example, before ESP, when I took trips with my family, I usually stressed myself out trying to micromanage everything and everyone. After my first 5-day intensive, thanks to a module that analyzed the structure of fear and anger and provided practical, introspective exercises, I was consistently able to feel more relaxed, be more present with my family, and enjoy those moments together. That original level of stress never recurred in those situations.
As for Keith’s math skills, I would say that he lacks a formal education in some areas of math but he has strong intuitive understanding. We’ve discussed complex problems and I found his abilities impressive.
Good to see you actively engaging the comments, Suneel.
1) I’ve never denied that Keith’s seminars helped some people. The problem is that you deny the immense harm it did to many.
2) Do you not find it strange that someone who supposedly graduated from the prestigious RPI with degrees including mathematics would lack formal education in some areas of that subject?
You are vague. In which areas did he lack formal education?
What complex problems did you discuss? What evidence can you offer of his abilities?
How many hours have you spent discussing math with Keith? There’s none of that in the recordings of your phone conversations. How many hours total have you spent in conversation with Keith? What were the circumstances?
I think the claims of his genius are massively overblown. He strikes me as average in that regard. But I’m open to convincing data. Provide us with the data and you can change opinions, including mine.
My opinion is there is almost nothing that most people think is good that doesn’t harm someone and nothing that is widely considered bad that helps no one.
Regarding the NXIVM seminars, you have made an allegation of the “immense harm it did to many.”
Could you provide examples of who was harmed and how were they harmed?
And thank you for the math questions. I plan to do a post on my observations of Keith’s prodigious math skills as soon as possible.
I might be described as a pretty good judge too since I have procedural knowledge, conceptual understanding and problem-solving skills that would qualify me to teach math to advanced students.
You will never be allowed to be a teacher. Many employment opportunities are gone because you have shown to lack proper moral judgement in support of a criminal enterprise.
I have not seen any of the self described talents exhibited in your defense. If you repeat it often enough, like Keith, does it become true?
This is kinda disingenuous, there were plenty of people who testified against Raniere. They didn’t do so because they only ever experienced benefits from him. You attended every single day of the trial, hence you already know this. Hence, you already know there are some people who claimed to have experienced harm through Raniere, and you also know how.
If you can prove under oath and using some experts (who too have undertaken the oath to speak the truth, or be held liable for perjury) that they did not experience harm, then you’d have something worth paying attention to, other than opinions from a person who has qualifications in neither legal matters nor psychological matters.
“My opinion is there is almost nothing that most people think is good that doesn’t harm someone and nothing that is widely considered bad that helps no one.”
Is that a saying you learned from your “Vanguard”?
This is standard NXIVM deflection: skirting around a challenging issue with a pseudo-profound generalization and feigning ignorance. I see right through this tactic, Suneel.
Your unwillingness to acknowledge and address the intense harm Keith and NXIVM caused — and continue to cause — is sad.
I note that instead of focusing on finishing your 44 point project to raise issues that will enable your “Vanguard,” The World’s Smartest Child Rapist™, to win his freedom in a new trial, you are now going to chase the rabbit of “Keith’s prodigious math skills as soon as possible.”
We critics of NIXVM and your “Vanguard” are not distracted.
Claviger and the rest of us are still waiting on that “evidence” you’ve got up your sleeve.
Perhaps you’ve given up on trying to win his freedom. If so, good on you. That’s an excellent step on the path to coming to grips with the reality of who Keith Raniere is.
If you want to improve Keith’s reputation, it is imperative that you explain his views on:
– Baby-rape
– Women’s enjoyment of being raped
– Molested children’s love of being sexually abused
That’s much more important than his mastery of differential equations.
Do you plan on moving to Tuscon to be closer to your “Vanguard,” making it easier for you to talk to him in person rather than just on the phone?
To the anonymous, who said Suneel would never be employed as a teacher. Not employing him simply because he has a different opinion, rather than he himself having done anything criminal, would be the greatest insult an educational institution could do to itself. Who made you the arbitrator of moral conduct? What moral rules has Suneel violated by having a different view? Is this what you would have done to the founding fathers of the U.S. who too has a different view…. not employ them? Or anyone else who fought non-violently for others’ rights and views, while not having harmed anyone themselves?
What happens when you get accused and put into prison for false criminal charges? Would you want your supported to not be employed? For the record, I don’t consider Raniere as innocent. Your shortsightedness is very disappointing.
Anon @at 9:59 am
It’s not a question of opinion, rather a fact of criminal bureau checks [enhanced] + the forensic skills of any self-respecting human resources dept. – these would be the checking mechanisms that will ensure Suneel Chakravorty will not find employment as a teacher in any reputable school, college or institution. At this point, private students might be difficult to find as, again, decent agencies have to run checks that, if failed, would result in the loss of contracts, so they tend to be very scrupulous. Defending a racketeering cult as all you nx redux have in your own words, here, is now a matter of record. Type the name Suneel Chakravorty into google and well, you brought it on yourself, or did you?
None is more discredited in material terms than Suneel. It’s not fair when considering the criminal involvement of Nicole Clyne, but she uses silly capricious comic aka’s as do the rest of them, here, because they are both pathologically unscrupulous: as vicious and vile as nxivm can be, and they know the level of their own collusion. Suneel’s terms of engagement may be different. For Raniere to continue ruling – he must continue to divide.
NFW, if what you are saying is true, we live in a pathetic country whose educational institutions will do down in the dumps if what you are saying is true and it continues to be true that way.
Thankfully, I don’t believe what you are saying has much merit. Suneel is not defending a racketeering cult. This statement shows your own ignorance of what he is doing and the complexities of this case. He is defending what he is seeing as injustice. Every institution worth its name should be encouraging such efforts. Regarding the criminal involvement of Nicole Clyne.
You are again showing your own ignorance. Nicole was never put on trial nor found guilty of any crimes. Your own lack of morality and objective judgment is seeping through in your opinions.
The world would be a better place with more people like Suneel than you, even though I believe Raniere is guilty.
NFW, if there was truth in what you are claiming about the American institutions, Werner Erhard wouldn’t be working with Harvard. If you do some digging up, you’ll find him having gone through similar struggles as Raniere, decades ago. He was not put on a trial or found guilty; however the forum and landmark are still considered as cults by many ignorant people who don’t have enough understanding of cults. These are similar to you. I am certain there are more cases like this. You are attempting to make it appear as if you are speaking facts and on behalf of all educational institutions when it’s really just your own limited biases, nothing more. I am certain there are plenty of examples of institutions where there are similarly biased people, but I am certain it’s mostly those not having enough credibility or low ranking institutions. If institutions were to tailor their hiring policies purely on unjustified attitudes of the ignorant masses, the quality of education would go bust. Not to mention more and more people are resorting to online education and education outside of formal institutions these days, and your arguments carry even lesser weight there, as good networks value the skill of the educator.
NFW, Anonymous @ 11:59 am is raw meat for your False Equivalence lesson module.
You really should have a pizza and bottle of hot sauce delivered to The World’s Smartest Child Rapist™ at USP Tuscon. How could you teach a class in faulty thinking without him?!
Bless. It’s not a question of ME being right, I just fully understand the recruitment requirements and protocols of my own profession, is all. I see I touched a nerve. Unsurprisingly.
Dear Suneel,
“Regarding the NXIVM seminars, you have made an allegation of the ‘immense harm it did to many’. Could you provide examples of who was harmed and how were they harmed?”
Hmmm… Well, for starters, to answer your question — I’d look at Kristin Snyder, a happy and even-keeled woman by all previous accounts who flipped out during her second intensive, was removed by people working for NXIVM, and then wrote a suicide note that said that the emotional center in her brain was turned off because of the teachings of NXIVM and something else about being dead inside and then she disappeared never to be seen or heard of since.
I’d start there.
And then I’d go to the woman who had a total mental breakdown while attending a seminar and ran out of the hotel naked–upset and completely out of her mind. She was interviewed in India’s documentary if you’ve seen it.
And then I may look at the other people who report feeling like they lost touch with themselves and needed extensive therapy after being in NXIVM for years taking and teaching seminars–Mark Vicente, Bonnie Piesse, Sara Edmonson, her husband, Anthony Ames… to name a few.
There is so much more. I’ve been reading about this cult for a long time ever since my brush up with them about 15 years ago. And nothing good seems to have come out of anyone attending these seminars. Stories of failure and enormous debt, physical illness…etc. abound. Thankfully, my intuition and good sense are strong enough that I didn’t get roped in back then. But knowing what I’ve known since I thought to look them up out of curiosity about 5 yrs ago, I wouldn’t go near their seminars or teachings with a 10 ft pole.
Could you please provide us with some data before we supply you with our data?
Suneel, If you truly believe Keith has something worthwhile to contribute to society at large, despite all his flaws and crimes, it would probably help if you could enable him to work with someone say perhaps from Harvard and build something or write a paper, etc. that would prove to be beneficial to people. So far, all I have seen are self-serving podcasts, blog posts, etc. I am certain there would be people who would be willing to collaborate with him, despite his reputation and current status as a criminal, if they find that he is a qualified intellectual.
Werner Erhard went through something similar decades ago, although in his case he was never convicted of any crimes, but his reputation was ruined. As a result, he ended up leaving the country for a long time, then he met Michael Jensen from Harvard, and worked on developing a course on leadership with him…my point is, if you can make it visible to the world that Keith Raniere has something valuable and good to give to the world, you’d succeed more in enabling him to reclaim his reputation and name, and people would be forced to see you and your friends as people worthy of listening to and paying attention to, regardless of whether you could ever prove he is innocent. I personally do not believe he is innocent; however, I think you guys have a better chance by doing something like that than simply self-serving efforts or efforts that come across as corrupted because of self-interest. Hence, my recommendation to you and your friends to do something which is not at all self-serving, yet beneficial to society at large.
I love your comment and while it is simple to do what you are asking, it is not easy. Simple because the results were there but not easy because of the hate campaign against Keith, similar to what happened to Werner in the 70s, I believe. For example, Keith developed tools and a training that helped a number of individuals overcome Tourette’s syndrome and other mental disorders that even the medical community has deemed impossible to treat…There was an award-worthy documentary on this but because of the hate campaign, the world at large is now distored from seeing these UNHEARD OF benefits (and I am sure people would comment on this to discount actual evidence of this)…These results are measurable and were being documented but because of this hate campaign against Keith, society at large is not benefitting from this, and people who are really struggling do not have access to these tools…It took decades for Werner to reclaim his good name and for people to apologize for the lies against him, hopefully, it takes less time for Keith’s good name to be restored.
“campaign” of. “hate” is a misnomer.
So over-dramatic and self-important.
There’s no organized or coordinated effort to discredit and “hate” Keith.
There are people with their own unique and valid reasons to dislike Keith.
Or just dislike Keith’s actions toward them.
At a certain point if many, many people with intimate knowledge of Keith had really awful experiences – only a truly closed-minded person would not at least entertain the idea that Keith was doing something wrong or contributing in some way to the negative dynamic.
It is illogical to find Keith blameless in all scenarios.
The lack of honest feedback from the community to Keith did not serve Vanguard well. And it enabled his demise.
You can still see it playing out on Frank Report in the comments. Nothing is ever Keith’s fault.
“thanks to a module that analyzed the structure of fear and anger and provided practical, introspective exercises” – Suneel
What were the exercises? Were these exercises unique to ESP? Did you try to get this kind of help from licensed therapists? What was the content of the fear and anger module?
Our colleague, Anthony, has spoken to us very well of you. The data that you write here is very interesting, Suneel, and we can see how this kind of training would be useful in many professions including the legal fields to make people focused on objectivity. We hope you will continue to write more and provide these trainings further.
How can we contact you so we can learn more?
“How can we contact you so we can learn more?”
Ummm, well Two Lawyers, even I can help you there. Why don’t you just ask your colleague, Anthony, for Suneel’s phone number…lol.
Suneel,
Did you graduate Harvard? Or the extension school?
We’re you an on campus student, Suneel?
Or an online student?
Thanks!
“I don’t know why he allowed this to be on his personal website for over a decade.”
It’s because everything Keith does is to humiliate and torment people. Once they realize they believed this crap, they feel foolish, which is what he loves.
Perfect example of that was in The Vow when Nippy and Mark were on the seawall shaking their heads about him being a judo champion when he was 11. You can tell they are both just pissed off they bought into that crap, and Keith loves it.
The b.s. info came from vanguard. He spun the lies. He approved the bio. He had the dishonesty spread far and wide. He let himself be introduced and described in such a ridiculous manner.
He had people bowing to his photo.
He lied about every part of his history. Lifestyle. Qualifications. No one needed Suneel to confirm the fabricated resume.
The question is why believe a proven liar like Keith Raniere over women with years and years of history with this lying pompous ass?
Women who had intimate, long-term relationships?
That some dude who Raniere could care less about and did not know well or for very long puts this con man (Consumers Buyline?) as the be all end all truth-teller in any scenario is laughable.
This is getting so old. So boring. You should put disclaimers all over anything Suneel posts.
Don’t forget if Suneel took classes, he bowed to a photo of Keith Raniere. Many times.
This.
Keith has been testified against to be shown to be a liar; a trickster; a controlling freak; a statutory rapist; a predator; through his trail of victims. In addition to grifting and selfishly satisfying himself, he seems to also get some disturbing joy in taking advantage of and deceiving people, making them waste their time and look stupid, and he does this through a facade for wanting to help and heal others. It’s hard to take anything this man does as sincere. He’s either really psychologically disturbed and so may deserve some pity, or subtly and intentionally malevolent (a “demon” in his own words), in which he deserves none.
Because he has refused to change his entire life and he never takes responsibility for anything negative that he’s done to others, he’s now earned the “joy” of a prison cell.
I think that Suneel has done an excellent job of dissecting Keith’s resume — and identifying many of the flaws in it. And I think he did a great job of summing up its many flaws in one sentence: [It’s] “…a preposterous biography because it contains unsubstantiated claims, comes across as strange and arrogant, and does not include any of his relevant achievements”.
I also think that Suneel is correct that there were flaws in several aspects of Keith’s case: i.e., his apprehension, expulsion, arrest, indictment, pre-trial detention, trial, and sentence. But I know from experience that none of those flaws was unique to Keith’s case — and that they are, in fact, simply part of our criminal justice system.
While the way our criminal justice system works may be shocking to those who first examine it in detail only after it adversely affects someone they care about, those of us who have dealt with it over a long period of time are all too familiar with its many flaws. Unfortunately for Suneel — and even more so for Keith — I have yet to see any evidence that Keith was treated any differently than thousands of other defendants are treated every day.
As I have previously noted, I do not think there is any chance that the Second Circuit Court of Appeals will overturn Keith’s case — and grant him a new trial (At best, Keith may get a few years knocked off his sentence). Nor do I think that Keith’s case is going to lead to any major changes in our criminal justice system.
The U.S. criminal legal system has plenty of flaws. But it tends to work against justice in opposite directions depending on the person involved: too much lenience for those with socioeconomic privilege, and vice versa for the underprivileged. It seems dishonest to try to position Raniere with the treatment of the underprivileged.
I’m not sure where you got the idea that I was trying “…to position Raniere with the treatment of the underprivileged”. Just because I think that there were flaws in his case does not mean that I think the outcome in his case should be overturned. As I said, the flaws that occurred in his case are very common — and are not the kind of flaws that are going to result in him getting a new trial.
I agree with your premise that our criminal justice system tends to work against those who have fewer resources. But that doesn’t mean that it also doesn’t work against those who have lots of resources.
Wait, what? Suneel believes like Keith that the investigators and prosecutors tampered with and planted crucial evidence, that the trial was a farce. He wants you to believe it was rigged.
If you want to say the whole system is rigged, you may also belong in that category of conspiracy theorists and skeptics who think Joe Biden was not legitimately elected President. It’s this loss of trust in our institutions.
Yes, the criminal justice system has flaws, but the fact that we’re having a discussion in January 2021 about whether KR was unjustly tried and convicted…it’s just sickening to me.
I never said, “the whole system is rigged”. What I did say is that there are flaws throughout our criminal justice system — which is a very different statement.
I also do not think that Keith’s trial was rigged or that it was a farce. But I do think that there were flaws in that trial — just as there are flaws in almost every trial.
As I have reiterated on many occasions, despite the fact that there were flaws at almost stage of Keith’s case — i.e., his apprehension, expulsion, arrest, indictment, pre-trial incarceration, trial, and sentencing — I do not believe that those flaws, individually or collectively, warrant a new trial.
Re; Biden.
He was not elected legitimately.
I fail to see how the treatment of Raniere by the judicial system revealed that there are two justice systems. He experienced an emotional, negatively biased judge. Hate-mongering and lies were used to convict him. Falsified “evidence” of “child pornography” was used to convict him. Not even one of the best trial attorneys in the nation was able to help him given the bias, lies, and falsified “evidence.”
Anonymous 12:05,
Pictures of Cami and later Camila’s own testimony prove Raniere took pictures of 15 year old Cami and her labia.
Anonymous at 6:57 pm. Exactly.
Additionally, Keith’s own words.
In texts, he refers to when the child porn was created.
And the length of their sexual history.
It is my conclusion that the Nxians are well aware that Cami was a child.
They just don’t “ethically” have an issue with Keith raping a 15-year-old girl. And exploitation of a child for pornography.
Gee. In fourth grade, two of us spent a week plus a few more days, preparing and then debating with other student teams about an upcoming national election.
The political side taken by the two of us was NOT representative of my own opinion. However, my partner and I did the work and debated effectively. One can certainly set aside one’s genuine evaluation of any given situation and debate from the opposite stance.
None of what Chakravorty has presented here has any particular significance to me at all.
In fact, he appears to have dashed off a poorly thought-out and superficial blend of unsubstantiated horseshit and terribly vague opinionating. These are not tricky enough linguistic mannerisms, are too easy to refute and do not pass muster, not even in fourth grade. But it does say plenty about Chakravorty, who can go ahead and keep whacking a mole. That is all that he’s doing. Some thick skulls might buy it. Cuz, why not.
Overly eager (?) to be a good, productive little boy and to complete an “assignment” and to try to get above a C grade, Suneel Chakravorty has come in with a dizzying averageness. There is not a single original thought in his fandom treatise. Yes, his fandom treatise.
That is all that he CAN write, from his embedded spot in the corner. Chakravorty is simply being pretentious, trying to at least stay out of the dugout.
But, if this piece of malarkey is what Chakravorty’s BEST looks like, he would be better off finding a new preoccupation. There is not a word offered with any validity whatsoever.
Chakravorty is, very probably, trying to look good, like a busy beaver who is convinced that he is clever whilst digging through his very own mud unawares. He is the Blowjob Expert from Nxivm, here to defend a sadistic and phony creature, as if Raniere were a martyred character in a bad novel, someone who no one understands, except for poor, poor Suneel Chakravorty.
I feel sorry for Chakravorty. Also, it is all too easily possible to come after Chakravorty and to bust his activities and his ideations with very little effort.
For one thing, shall “we” discuss Suneel’s sex life? People get ready? Come on, boys and girls. Who wants to dig into THAT MESS! Heh heh.
Look out below! Who blew it now? Wake up. Mama wasn’t born yesterday. Now I am beginning to feel somewhat amused. But I started this safari many moons ago, upon noticing someone’s lack of a chin. Cheerio!
Or as Janis wailed, “bye-bye, baby. Baby, bye-bye.” And then Woody Woodpecker just added several ribald hoots, too. Not to forget, the magnolia tree just shimmied and rustled, “Ai Yi Yi.”
Shivani,
You produce brilliant observations and analysis.
Why do you always then bury them all under a compost-mound of whimsical verbiage?
Why?
Why?
Why?
I take the time to read your comments because like this last comment, you have given some incredible insights into Suneel’s‘false admissions’.
When you trail-off, you lose people. People who could benefit from your knowledge.
Shivani, such a brilliant singular voice – as ever.
NFW
I did not say she wasn’t brilliant!
To the contrary, I was saying she is BRILLIANT and should write in a manner which is more accessible to pedestrians (regular people). She makes many astute observations people end up missing.
I get her risible poetry and enjoy it.
She did a fairly good job of picking apart and skewering Suneel’s piece using a humorist angle. I can’t write like that myself.
I wasn’t replying to you, I don’t mind your opinion, or find it upsetting in any way!
Just sprinkling a little praise on one of my fav. contemporary writers. As I occasionally like to do.
KR Claviger – thanks for the kind words on my analysis of the biography. Also, I agree that Keith’s treatment is not unique. But I think the combination of media attention and number and severity of process issues may be unique. That said, I appreciate your skepticism and look forward to what you think of my next posts.
Ugh. Next. Posts.
Suneel, will you let guest views post on your justice blog?
Or is this entirely one-sided?
Suneel,
—But I think the combination of media attention and number and severity of process issues may be unique.
There is nothing unique or novel. Every high profile criminal trial has media-bias and due process issues in some combination.
Suneel,
In regard to your own bio:
Did you graduate brick & mortar Harvard?
Or online extension?
You brought up your education so I am sure that you are comfortable clarifying.
Thanks!
Keith must have been hacked. Yeah, that’s it, he was hacked.
Wow. Suneel has surprised me.
I am impressed with his response, but also curious why he side-stepped one major issue.
Which makes me think he answered the question precisely how a defense attorney would answer such a question for the jury, that is, to acknowledge what everybody else knows to be true about his client (to establish credibility with the jury) but to then go out of his way to minimize its importance WHILE simultaneously not acknowledging any topic which is too damaging to even whisper about (i.e., Keith’s possessiveness and insecurity among sexual partners).
I see Suneel’s response more like carefully crafted ‘damage control’ rather than a heartfelt and true ‘criticism’ of his Vanguard’s personal shortcomings.
But I am still impressed. Maybe Suneel has a mind of his own. Who knows?
I just think the ONE major question he sidestepped is this…
How is Vanguard qualified to LEAD people (in their quest for a more fulfilling life) IF he’s so insecure and possessive that he demands that all sexual partners never sleep with another man while he can do whatever he likes?
Warren Jeffs was also possessive with his harem of women followers, while demanding the same obedience from them. Warren Jeffs also liked underage women and was jailed for it. He was a pervert just like Keith.
How is Keith any different from Warren Jeffs in this regard? Is Keith worse or better than Warren Jeffs? I’m not sure, to be honest. They both tended to their female flock in the same manner.
Perhaps Niceguy can chime in with his Beantown wisdom?
Bangkok-
Re Suneel and Kieth’s White Lies:
Two things came to mind after reading Suneel’s response:
1.) Suneel felt the need to explain away Kieth’s lies. Why not call the lies for what they are [lies]? People, especially men, have a tendency to be braggadocios, tell little white lies. It’s not inherently evil so why did Suneel skirt the truth? Saying Kieth was disingenuous is not saying Kieth is a bad person. It’s saying Keith is human. Suneel knows fact from fiction.
2.) Suneel did not know about all of the ‘sex’ allegedly Kieth was having.
Sex is not a bad thing and sex between multiple adults is not a crime legally or morally. Kieth was supposed to a pious renunciate. Does Suneel feel Kieth was disingenuous?
I do not understand what is wrong with stating the truth. If Suneel said “Kieth lied once or twice, but so what, he’s only human. It doesn’t mean he is a bad guy”; I would be more inclined to accept Suneel’s assertion that he himself is independent.
I’d like to know Suneel’s take on my thoughts.
***
To Suneel,
Suneel, Kieth’s white lies are just simple bragging. Why do you put window dressing on something so harmless? Keith’s only human. I’ve done similar things myself. White lies are harmless.
That’s a very fair assessment from my colleague, Mr. Niceguy.
Why not tell us about your history of doing “similar things” yourself, Mr. Niceguy?
What crap did you lie and embellish about? Please dish and tell us why you’re a bragger?
…and not everybody does that crap.
As a pious man, I haven’t ever done that crap. I live according to God’s word and the gospel. I’m the most righteous person you’ve ever encountered.
Pious Bangkok,
I use “Buzz Words”—no lies.
Bangkok, while you’re secluded in your basement, I am proud of you for being so honest and true with the strangers you meet on the internet.
Pious Bangkok-
You’ve never had the opportunity to be disingenuous to anyone, alone up in an attic, with the exception of mom, dad and anonymous Twitch players.
BTW:
How high is your rank in the game
Call of Duty or are you one of those World- of War Craft *poons?
Is your gamertag alias?
1. NonBinaryJedi69
2. Salzman4everXOXO
3. I❤️LaurenTuna69
Poon |pōōn| noun
• a simple foolish person
New Oxford American Dictionary
No need to redact Frank it’s a clean word.
🧼
Wonderful! I have 3 comments to Pious Bangkok……
I need a life and my memory evaluated.
Am I a Gamer? I’ll let you wonder about that.
Oh… If Frank ever redacts even a single insult made towards me then I’ll personally crap on him for being a panzy-ass-free-speech-hater. Every insult against me must stand.
BTW: If you’re wondering why Frank became such a free speech hater recently, it’s because his domain name is hosted on WordPress servers which means he was recently threatened (last year) with having his site shut down if he doesn’t toe the line on liberal speech ideology.
If Frank had the balls — or the cash — to switch his web server to a REAL hosting firm, then he wouldn’t have to be such a panzy ass about speech. Only broke and cashless pussies use WordPress to host their own sites.
Newsflash to Frank: You can still use WordPress software to manage your blog WITHOUT using WordPress to host your entire web site.
Real sites are hosted away from liberal masters like WordPress. Frank is a wussy. Claviger is a wussy too. Claviger retired recently and, at last count, he has over 10,000 former clients who reside in the slammer. What a great attorney he must have been.
I wonder if Frank has the balls to acknowledge these facts? Or is he gonna pretend that I’m mistaken?
Methinks that Frank knows I’m telling the truth. Have a nice day. 🙂
Bangkok, I have never been threatened by Word Press and no one has ever even vaguely suggested that I should not write anything. I do sometimes wonder if certain topics I write might make for a kind of shadow banning. There is indeed a growing concern that Big Tech can wind up canceling a website very quickly.
Pious Bangkok-
I did not have much of anything to “chime in on” since you covered everything so thoroughly.
“Chime in on” is a rather dated expression more in use by Frank’s and my own generations. So mother uses the expression around you. Additionally it is an expression women have a tendency to use more than men. So why do you use…
🙂
I find people’s language usage fascinating. Computer programmers have rather distinct programming styles of writing code that you can tell who wrote the code on a project.
Tell Momma I said hi!
Mr. Chakravorty is only seeking transparency of the legal process. It seems to me a privilege that I enter into conversations with critics of little value.
Transparency?
We are in the United States not India.
What was the point of the challenge if not to see if Suneel was capable of looking at Keith from another angle?
The goal is not to build agreement, but to display his willingness to critique. I don’t think he’s ever taken the stance that Keith is the most fantastical person on the planet. His main thread has been that the trial was unfair and subject to bias. Maybe he also likes Keith in some ways, and that’s just fine. I don’t see him gushing that “this man could do no wrong”.
The personal attacks here are pretty pathetic, but I do appreciate those of you discussing at depth and trying to weigh both sides.
—The personal attacks here are pretty pathetic, but I do appreciate those of you discussing at depth and trying to weigh both sides.
I agree wholeheartedly!
Suneel – Great breakdown of the bio. When you say that you doubt anyone took classes based on this bio, you are mistaken. At the beginning of ESP, virtually EVERYONE took the classes based on Keith’s bio and how his bio was sold to us. His bio was THE pitch for the program. And you think this bio promoted myths? You should have heard the stories that were verbally told but didn’t make it in writing.
Nutjob, he’s lying when he says he doesn’t believe this bio was key to the sales pitch.
Note what he wrote: “I have never heard him make any of these claims in person or in any recorded videos…”
This may be true. But Suneel certainly heard many other people make these claims many times and it was part of why Suneel was sold on it. It was impossible to be involved and not hear this BS, as you correctly point out.
Given his teaching role, it strains credibility that Suneel hasn’t made the same sales pitch many times.
This is standard NXIVM deflection and distraction in action–garden variety manipulation.
NutJob-
So, you believed Kieth’s bio?
….That’s actually worse than the time Bangkok believed his mom when she told him she was a virgin before meeting his dad…..
Come to think about it, Bangkok’s dad probably believed her too. 🙂
Never said that. The bio was an early red flag. I did believe the Guiness thing and figured there was some truth to the others. But, come on – I grew up watching every 100 meter race put on TV. I was kicking tires while there, way more than guru shopping.
Were you raped by a friend?
Or by chance?
Wrong on both counts!
I was playing spin-the-bottle alone and the bottle won.
Nutjob-
My original theory of how you were roped into NXIVM is a woman was somehow part of the equation.
Even if it’s not true, always blame it on a woman. Men doing crazy shit for pu-tang is understandable.
Men doing crazy shit for no reason is crazy.
Nah. Just wanted to learn shit. It didn’t live up and simultaneously got weird -so I ejected.
—Nah. Just wanted to learn shit. It didn’t live up and simultaneously got weird -,so I ejected.
Sincerely, I get it. Nothing wrong with trying something.
But, if somebody had told me, “Hey, Vanguard has dibs on all the hot chicks.”, I may have passed on it…
—But, if somebody had told me, “Hey, Vanguard has dibs on all the hot chicks.”, I may have passed on it…
LMAO 😂
Nutjob wants to be Suneel’s buddy. Suneel has enough friends.
Maybe his family and my family can vacation together! If he does shoot me down, will you be my friend?
1/4 star
When the Amazon box arrived I was so excited about my matching bird bookends!
I reached into the box to pull out the bright red birds and found 2 carved evil clowns.
They are made of a strange wood that smells musky. The faces have razor sharp teeth and demonic eyes.
While lifting one from the box a clown incisor caught my finger and drew blood. I swear that clown now has a bigger smile.
They look like something carved in prison.
Would have given zero stars but someone from the vanguard co. did finally respond and acknowledge that the bookends were not birds but evil clowns.
But that’s it! No refund. No exchange!
I’ve looked everywhere on the bookends for identifying features. Or maker marks. All I found was a kr on the bottom.
And now one bookend has gone missing
Do not or— itdoyclh c l I kvklvi
There is no such thing as brainwashing. It is not science. It is the fantasy of anti-cultists.
It depends on what you mean by the popular term “brainwashing.”
“Coercive thought reform” is the stricter notion used by psychologists.
Robert J. Lifton’s book in the touchstone: https://www.amazon.com/Thought-Reform-Psychology-Totalism-brainwashing/dp/0807842532
Here’s a video where he discusses it in detail:
Then how do you explain cults and cultists? Please prove some data to back up your assertion.
As opposed to the fantasy of pro- cultists.
Which is in abundant evidence on all the vanguard apologists’ comments here.
If you ‘ve bowed to a rodent footed, cross eyed, buck toothed, short, fat, lying perv’s photo – you are in a cult.
And brain washed.
Someone asked in a previous thread (that I can’t find now) about a psychological profile of Raniere.
Here’s an analysis by a licensed professional counselor of mental health who has a Ph.D. in counselor education and supervision. He makes lots of videos on narcissism and other personality disorders.
Anyone who gives psychological diagnoses based upon newspaper articles has no respect from me.
He’s offering an opinion, not a formal “diagnosis,” as he says explicitly.
He is amazing in his interpretation of the ‘Vanguard’. Everyone must watch this.
He’s not making a diagnosis and says so at the outset. He’s only speculating about what could be happening in a situation like this.
For a professional to do this is irresponsible and dehumanizing. It gives unsubstantiated information credence. Gross.
Interesting…
You are disgusted by a qualified authority merely offering their opinion on a topic, but you talk like someone who remains an acolyte and defender of The World’s Smartest Child Rapist™.
Why don’t you report Dr. Grande’s behavior to the professional ethics committee of the agency that provides his accreditation?
Let us know how that goes.
Uhhhh….
Keith was not a professional.
Criminals are profiled ALL the time based on just crimes committed. Ever see Silence of the Lambs, for example?
There is enough testimony, recordings, videos, audios and more to start a profile.
You don’t respect Dear Abby or Ann Landers?
This was ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC. THANK YOU!!!!
Starting at 17:07 “Like he said that love comes from sacrifice and pain. Therefore, a fear of pain is a fear of love. He was trying to normalize the pain he was going to cause.”
That was interesting. I might be wrong here but I guess that Keith Raniere had to deal with his own deep emotional pains he wanted to get rid of himself. In order to find the proper healing method, he introduced several methods to inflict pain on his victims. If he was able to watch them in pain and did not feel the same, maybe, he thought he stood above all?
As for slowly taking away the boundaries and ‘limiting beliefs’ of people, he created a sort of oneness between them and himself. No doubt that this ‘oneness’ was anything but sound as they were not openly asked to become one with his hidden agenda. But…if they had really become ‘one’ (unified) with him, did he think he could heal his own pain by healing them only? Didn’t he refer to himself as a scientist also? Furthermore, human experiments come to mind…?
A lot of questions might arise but I am going to stop here.
I personally think its all crafty mind control.
Narcissists are all about control. Everything, right down to careers they choose for people.
The Dr here points out 9 elements of control Vanguard used.
It looks like things Vanguard said were a subliminal way to break down people’s thought processes and guide them toward his sexual kinks, which again, was control in the form of sexual control over women. How much they can eat. Sleep deprivation. Sleeping with him alone to replenish “his sexual energy.”
Right down to branding them.
It’s all control. His statements were not the truth, but all about paving the next manipulation.
And there’s lots of evidence of the denigration and humiliation of women.
Women “went for it” thinking it was “freedom” and “empowerment” when, in reality, they were subliminally guided to it, because he called himself “the world’s smartest man” and must, therefore, be right.
This was absolutely brilliant denigration of women, I’ll give Vanguard that.
Too bad he didn’t use it for something meaningful.
Opinion.
I agree with all you said, FMN. Watching the whole video, I also thought these nine points were spot on. I simply wondered why narcissists need to control everything and run amok when they lose control…? What is it that they need to really be in charge of? Isn’t there a deep (maybe subliminal) fear of losing it all (i.e., their life as they built it) when they let go of being in charge?
Yes, it would have been great if Keith Raniere had used his abilities, above average or not, for something positive in life. Alas, he merely caused damage and destruction. 🙁
Narcissists are some of the cruelest people walking around and some of the most intelligent. Many CEOs and business leaders are considered narcissistic.
They look normal ( though I think Vanguard’s eyes do NOT look normal), talk normal and act normal. Yet they are mean and manipulative and abusive.
What most people can’t understand is it is a PERSONALITY DISORDER, NOT a mental illnesses and therefore, VERY difficult to spot.
Wie geht alles in Deutschland? Bitter kalt hier! Meine Schwiegermutter kam aus Nuerenberg.
Ha! Das ist ja lustig, ich wohne nur ein paar hundert Meter von Nürnberg entfernt! 😂 Das Wetter ist wie eine Achterbahn, mal eiskalt und Schnee, ⛄❄️ dann wieder warm und Tauwetter 💧💧💧 (haben gerade Hochwasser hier). 🙈
I came to know a few narcissists in my life, two of them closely and it was hard to get away from them. They are revengeful, indeed. And controlling! Not all of them are the same, but sometimes they become stalkers, too.
As for CEOs, yup, alas, I know… What they all have in common is that they act heartlessly, which turns out painful if you cannot get rid of them immediately or… at all. Drawing distinct boundaries is crucial!
I also thought that KAR’s 👀 do not look normal, this semi-dormant expression, this cold stare, even when he smiled or laughed.
Good stuff, thanks!
Now knowing that Eddie Albert was paid to boast of the brilliance of Vanguard, I now lump him in the same pile with the likes of Joe Namath performing a television commercial touting a Medicare company.
Another great response from Suneel. He is very clear that he is advocating for Keith because of the injustice he saw. I like how Suneel responds elegantly to articles that seem more hateful than actually wanting a conversation. Good job Suneel. Now let’s focus on the real issue here, injustice.
Anthony, now that I see the two lawyers from you office have posted here, I apologize for ever having doubted their existence and your honesty.
Sorry.
NXIDVMDVM
Király vagy!
Thank you for bringing this case to our attention, Anthony. You are correct that Suneel has offered very clear and objective data and is advertising a clear injustice in this case. He is a very smart man with excellent arguments and we are sure he would make an excellent attorney if that is his wish and he wants to find another career after his Python and math teachings.
Actually he could be acting, or just have the normal dysfunctional ambivalent relationship that these people have with parents of father figures. They said that George Bush had a competitive and grateful relationship with his father, but Cathy o Brien said that both rape Kelly her daughter, which could mean that the father rape the last president Bush . Is very common in families that are luciferian.
So maybe Suneel somehow shares that violence with Raniere . Just see the Bronfman, everyone believes that Clare was shitty daughter for what she did to Edgar, but in her own words he was a illuminati right? Fritz Springmeier also said that the Bronfmans where luciferian so…. Is not really shocking, when you put the pedophilia , violent part . Is very confusing for a child to have the cafetalera do horrible things , even narcisist Chase the acceptance of a parent compulsibly , some times till they die
>I don’t know why he allowed this to be on his personal website for over a decade.
Because he wrote it himself
Is this paving the way for: KR bio is so boastful, so full of ludicrous claims that anybody taken in by it only has herself/himself to blame?
Isn’t this a little similar to what one of the women (Nancy?) said: ‘of course the claims are exaggerated, anyone can see that’, while all the while knowingly selling the “greatest genius living” image and using it to build up this mythical character to impress young women?
Because KR might have written his bio, but his whole hierarchy sold it. So either they’re also gullible, or they knowingly indulged in unethical tactics. Can’t have it both ways.
Perhaps Suneel is the critical thinker he is encouraging us all to be. My impression is that he’s not saying Raniere is fault-less, he is saying he is innocent of the crimes he was accused of and that extreme corruption was used to convict him. Corruption that should be exposed.
“Playing ‘many musical instruments’ is imprecise. It would have been appropriate, and impressive, to list them all.”
I’ll bet Keith has become quite proficient at the skin flute while incarcerated.
And the boneaphone. And don’t forget the organ, the male organ.
One of our coworkers, Anthony, asked us to post here because he said people don’t believe our opinions are true. We wanted to come here on the Frank Report to let everyone know that we have no connection to NXIVM we didn’t know anything about this case until Anthony brought the data to our attention.
We are disturbed by some of the things Keith did but it is our careful legal opinions that this case is due to extremely serious prosecutor misconduct. Some of the things he did could be considered immoral by certain people but he didn’t do anything illegal.
Law and morality are totally different. Charges should never have been filed and he should never have been kidnapped. Kidnapping is always wrong. The people who kidnapped Keith are guilty of felonies. This is a total violation of the constitution.
We know the law in Mexico too and it was also a violation. If Keith doesn’t win his appeal at the first level we are certain it will be overturned by the Supreme Court. This can set a major precedent. The prosecutors better take care because they will probably be ordered into jail and lose their jobs because of this illegal prosecution.
We have read this website and see that other law trained people a professor and a student agree with us. Most of the people who are posting comments here don’t know the law like we do and are used to only believing what the media tells them and making judgementalism based on emotion and hate. The law teaches objectivity and only basing knowledge on data and personal integrity.
We have read Suneel’s writings and he is obviously a man of integrity. We have never met Suneel but he has a high reputation in coding and math which are objective not emotional. He is not dumb and brainwashed. He does not think Keith is a perfect god only a very talented man who helped many people.
He is raising many good points about the law and how it was not followed in this case. He is very brave because he is facing so much hate but he is only attentioning objective facts.
Dude, you aren’t helping your cause. Maybe if you tried being real and stopped lying…?
This person writes like Pea Onyu used to. Too bad Frank won’t tell us who Pea is 🙁
It’s a troll…reverse trolling.
Hey lawyers:
We all know we apply facts to the elements, we don’t apply opinion to the elements.
Would you be willing to go on the record with the Court?
Filing amicus briefs?
Which elements of which crimes were unmet?
Citations, please, and testimony cites.
One at a time, since there’s a lot of law to sift thru. I wouldnt mind reading some cases you stand on.
Dead giveaway for your fallacies: use of the word ‘data.’ Data normally means statistics. Most unbrainwashed, un-culted people tend to use the word ‘information.’ i.e., “….we have no connection to NXIVM we didn’t know anything about this case until Anthony brought the [information] to our attention.” See? Doesn’t that sound a little bit more normal?
This entire writing — and those of Anthony — are so transparent that they are actually laughable! 🤣🤣
Clifton, you have no good empirical data. You only have your opinion. Opinions are not valid information.
This is correct. Clifton Parker, if that is his real name, does not understand the law and is not qualified to practice in NY or any other state and so no one should pay attention to his so-called opinions.
LMAO! Wow….you don’t even understand my moniker. Yes…my real name is the town in which I reside and where all of the NXIVM horsespit took place. Wow….
TWO LAWYERS
You sound nothing like lawyers. At. All.
(following up my prior comment. I realize I should have said “a commitment to protect Raniere” instead of “to defend Raniere.” And at this point, protect means to work to overturn the conviction.)
I’ve only gotten a few sentences in, and i needed to stop to comment. “This naturally begs the question, if Suneel is indeed brainwashed, how can he criticize the man who brainwashed him?”
If that question is a rhetorical device, and what is truly meant is “clearly, he isn’t brainwashed,” then… That’s a massive fallacy.
In what universe is there only one way to be brainwashed, and that one specific way is to be convinced that the person responsible is infallible? That’s absurd. Brainwashing (or, in other words, long-term systematic manipulation) can be about anything. The Raniere version seems to be all about redefining harm, abuse, personal responsibility, commitment, and other concepts. To give just *one* single possibility to answer the rhetorical question: Say a brainwashed/systematically manipulated person named…SoonEeall…had made a commitment to defend Raniere, and (due to that manipulation) believed that this commitment surpassed any other system of morality. And in that person’s judgment, this behavior (criticizing Raniere) was the best strategy to get people on board. There you go. And that’s just one possibility.
Who is the “editor” behind this editor’s note, and are you genuinely this unaware, bad at critical thinking, or are you, for some reason, working for Raniere now?
It’s the Bangcock influence and her if/then fallacies. I forgive the editor simply because I’m still gushing tears over the English horn caption.
Frank, I parachuted in your blog relatively recently so I’m curious to know if when you worked in public relations for NXIVM you had a personal and frecuente treat with Raniere or you were only treating with representatives of a lower level of its pyramidal structure
I spoke with Raniere almost daily. Also worked closely with Nancy Salzman, Clare Bronfman and Kristin Keeffe.
Thanks for answering (I don’t get notifications when somebody answers me). If it would exist other entries in the early times of this blog in which you would have written something about your impressions of those interactions with Raniere et al, I would try to trace them down. Are there any?
Holy moly. What is a ‘ frecuente treat with Raniere”. Frank?
And why did you have one?
Have you been checked out medically since?
I think Frank is holding out on some good stories. We know he was the object of Nancy’s desires. We know he slept in Clare’s bedroom. Now Keith and Frank partaking in frecuente treats???? Urban dictionary, here I come. We deserve some detailed stories, and Frank should request detailed test results…
This analysis is yet more evidence The World’s Smartest Defender of Child Rape™ and Harvard-Trained Blow Job Analyst™, Suneel Chakravorty, has been caught up in coercive thought reform AKA “brainwashing.”
Overall, his criticism of the bio is that it could be better written and provide more evidence of how extraordinary Keith is. If only Suneel had written it for Vanguard! I suspect Suneel believes the World’s Smartest Child Rapist™ wouldn’t be in the jam he’s in currently if Suneel had been Keith’s right-hand man from early on. From what I’ve read here on FR, Suneel’s obsession with Keith appears driven by Suneel’s insecure narcissism.
The key sentence: “I don’t know why he allowed this to be on his personal website for over a decade.”
The key words are “he allowed.” This is responsibility shifting. It wasn’t Keith who wrote it. It was some starry-eyed follower who was swept away by their emotion.
Note what Suneel doesn’t question at any depth.
“Keith told me that because of his Waldorf education, he started math late and when he first looked at high school math books, he discovered he intuitively “got it.” That is not an ordinary achievement, to be sure, but the claim feels to me like it’s trying to build the myth of Keith Raniere. I think there were better ways to showcase his mathematical skills”
He doesn’t question this ludicrous claim or do any digging about it, he immediately shifts the focus to there being better ways to show how smart his Vanguard is.
“Keith appeared in the 1989 Australian edition of the Guinness Book of Records. To my knowledge, he did not appear in any other editions. That year, the editors of the Guinness Book of Records chose to retire the category. His claim is true.”
No evidence. No details. No “data”.
“It is my understanding that the reason CBI had to shut down was due to fallout from bad PR and mounting legal fees.”
Again, no research into the topic. Zero consideration that Keith did anything wrong. Just bad PR. Just like his current legal troubles are bad PR spread by haters.
“I doubt that anyone was ever persuaded to take an ESP/NXIVM course because of this biography.”
A claim backed by no “data”. If Keith’s biography wasn’t important, why did these details get repeated so frequently by his acolytes?
And he ends with a straw man argument: “But does having such a ludicrous biography mean Keith is a despicable person?”
No, Suneel, Keith is not despicable because of this pack of lies, no one here is that simple-minded. This BS “biography” is an example of his dishonesty, his untrustworthiness. He’s despicable because of the crimes he was convicted of and for which he’s serving a 120 year sentence, plus many other acts that he hasn’t been charged with but credibly accused of, including child rape.
I didn’t need to see this to know The World’s Smartest Defender of Child Rape™ and Harvard-Trained Blow Job Analyst™, Suneel Chakravorty, is a devotee of the World’s Smartest Child Rapist™. That was already clear from everything he’s written before. This is just another example.
Spot on.
Another point is missing, maybe Suneel can fill us in on:
Were the lies and exaggerations and puffery used to lure the unsuspecting in? And what damage do you think that caused the unsuspecting?
Do you think it was ” ethical” to lie, and then use those lies as a marketing ploy?
Was it unethical to market those lies as coming from ” an ethical person? “
Why do you attack Suneel with insults and nicknames when he’s trying to make valid points that ultimately you disagree with. Also, every time you post the word child rapist, you lose more and more credibility. There are no charges or convictions of child rape.
You consider “Harvard-Trained” an insult?
You must be a Princeton or Yale man.
Q.E.D. Nxiumdvmdvm – as ever.
“Some one who has fun at other people’s expense”
Yup. That’s Vanguard.
If you listen carefully, people will tell you exactly who they are.
If you carefully watch their actions – not just what they say – even more will be revealed.
If you accept their fake bio and never really question it until they are in jail – were you ever actually their ” friend”?
Do you have any data to authenticate that your data is valid? For someone named Tracking Data, you certainly don’t provide any data to back up your postulates.
“But does having such a ludicrous biography mean Keith is a despicable person?”
No, but it is yet more evidence of Raniere as someone who is woefully insecure deep inside, a liar and a fraudster.
I think you are projecting your own insecurity onto him.
Standard, generic cult defensiveness. The old kindergarten playground “I know you are, but what am I?!” fancied up with psychoanalytic jargon.
How many 10s or 100s of thousands did people pay to learn this stuff?
A hundred 100,000? Try much, much lower. 😂
NXIVM is the poor man’s Scientology.
Scientology has SeaOrg and NXIVM has DOS.
Scientology has Tom Cruise and John Travolta.
NXIVM has Allison Mack.
End of story