Eduardo Asunsolo is one of a group called the Nxivm-5. They are the most vocal of the remaining supporters of Keith Alan Raniere.
I estimate that there are perhaps 100 Raniere supporters still left in North America and a few in Europe. But these five, of the Nxivm-5, Eduardo, Nicki Clyne, Suneel Chakravorty, Michele Hatchette and Marc Elliot, are openly, notoriously, supporting Raniere.
Most people who are still loyal are keeping a low profile and of those who left Nxivm and were too slow to quit and denounce Keith Raniere, they are finding themselves losing their jobs, unable to rent apartments, and, in some cases, such as in Mexico, not being permitted to enroll their children in some schools.
It is in some respects a witch hunt for certainly not every person in Nxivm was a scoundrel. But the mere tinge of Nxivm and prior membership is enough to cause fear and loathing.
In the last week or so, rightly or wrongly, Damon Brink’s contract with a not-for-profit was canceled in Vermont, and Javier Jileta resigned from his high-ranking position in the Mexican Ministry of Foreign Relations because of association with Nxivm.
This is but a tip of the iceberg. I can name two dozen former Nxians who lost jobs or could not rent an apartment – even after telling their employers or potential landlords that they have left Nxivm and have denounced Raniere. I can well understand how witnesses like Nicole and Daniela sought to keep their identities private for this is an enormous badge of dishonor to be known to have once associated with Raniere.
Indeed, the ones who escape this fate are of three kinds.
One: Those who hide below the radar and keep their role in Nxivm hidden – which means in large part – to keep it offline.
I have removed the names of quite a few former members from the Frank Report to help them move on with their lives.
Second: The next group are those who come out as victims and tell their tale.
Third: Finally there are those who leave very publicly and not only proclaim they were victims but who joined the fight in taking on and bringing Raniere down.
Among these is Mark Vicente. He was in a group called Ramtha before he joined Raniere. His devotion to Raniere [and probably Ramtha] was real, while it lasted. At some point, Mark Vicente turned against him.
Mark Vicente began a fight and while I used the Frank Report to write about Keith Raniere, he used a camera. This dude filmed everything he did. Maybe he filmed 1000 hours or more for every hour aired. The whole battle he had with Raniere, with his fellow fighters, Catherine Oxenberg, Sarah Edmondson, Anthony Ames, Bonnie Piesse, and others, notably Kristin Keeffe and myself, was filmed. All the while planning to use it in a documentary.
And he did. It is HBO’s The Vow.
So on the one end, we have the most vocal anti-Ranierians, Vicente, and, on the other, we have Eduardo Asunsolo of the Nxivm-5.
Now the curious thing is that at one time, Vicente and indeed most of the people who were in Nxivm and later left, were friends with most of the Nxivm-5. It was known as the Nxivm community.
Eduardo Asunsolo and Mark Vicente were friends. Vicente was older and higher in the ranking system of Nxivm, and Asunsolo said he looked up to Vicente as a great man.
When Vicente left and, then rustled up many others to leave, then provided evidence to the prosecution and, especially, after he testified against Raniere at his trial – the ever-dwindling remaining followers of the Vanguard considered Vicente the most dishonorable.
The last time Asunsolo saw Vicente was at the trial of Raniere. There is a lot of poetry in this scene.
Vicente, the former mentor, a former leader of Nxivm, testified for days. He approached Asunsolo, who attended the trial and heard every word Vicente said. Once they were dedicated players on the same team – team Raniere and now a disillusioned Vicente was the architect of Raniere being where he is – prison.
So there is a moment when in the courthouse the two men ran into each other. It was awkward perhaps. They saw each other and neither could pretend not to see the other.
Vicente spoke. He tried to tell Asunsolo that he was there for him, willing to help, inform him, give him the assurance that everything that was being said about Keith was true, and that he, Vicente had been in his shoes before.
Asunsolo, who once so admired Vicente, greets him with stony silence. He did not dispute. He was gravely silent.
Vicente looked at him, realizing that Asunsolo by his silence was making his statement. He stood behind Keith.
A few weeks later, on June 19, 2019, Raniere was convicted. As he waited in prison for more than a year, his followers danced in front of the prison. They created an affidavit, asking the prosecution to swear under oath they did not lie or cheat. They published reports on how the prosecution railroaded an innocent Raniere – from altering devices seized at his home to claiming witnesses were lying – including Vicente.
Keith alone was telling the truth.
On October 27, Raniere was sentenced to 120 years, and is soon is to be transferred to another prison — and the Nxivm-5, who live in Brooklyn, may soon be deprived of seeing him. He is reportedly headed for Tucson sometime this year.
Raniere is planning an appeal and his supporters are helping him, Asunsolo perhaps chief among them.
Asunsolo said that he tried to reach Vicente privately but was unable to make contact. Vicente’s whereabouts are presently unknown and it is believed he may be living outside the USA.
An Open Letter to Mark Vicente
By Eduardo Asunsolo
January 1, 2021.
The last time we saw each other was at Keith’s trial and you said you still cared about my welfare. I’m sorry I didn’t respond.
Today I’m not so sure that the silence I used against you that day did much for the people I love.
Please don’t misunderstand me, I still stand where I stood then, but I wanted to say that, at least for me, this difference of opinion between us is no longer a barrier to our being in contact.
So since I offered silence to you the last time, I am reaching out now to try to reestablish communication.
One day, perhaps in the near or distant future, you might be open to something I would be amenable to – an effort to return of our former friendship, and, for anything we may have done wrong – forgiveness.
This is interesting. That two opposing individuals, on opposite sides of the Keith Raniere case – each believing they are walking in the light, formerly friends, now not speaking because of Raniere. The two men had their whole lives enveloped in the world of Raniere and one of them destroyed that world and the other is one of the few remaining beings still dwelling in the ruins of Nxivm.
And he reaches out to Vicente, to communicate again.
One must consider that Vicente likely considers Asunsolo brainwashed or gullible or misled; blind to the truth that Vicente only lately discovered about the man he almost worshipped, Keith Raniere.
And Asunsolo likely thinks that Vicente did not tell the real truth of Keith, and let the great man be pilloried and destroyed and for what? For the sake of a documentary? Did he ever understand Raniere?
Regardless of who is right, it does make an interesting New Year’s concept — that two people diametrically opposed might actually do what most would not consider – break the silence and communicate, civilly.
Something might yet come out of that dialogue.
I didn’t read this until now, because I think both parties are vile in their own ways. Both – and the others seem to be seeking that perpetual daddy figure that’s going to love and punish them in the most toxic ways possible. “Please be my new Daddy, Mark”.
Life is filled with many seasons, and those healthy enough to recognize when a season has passed, live more fulfilling lives in the current one, and plan for the next.
If co-dependency is aspirational, sure. Be like Anthony. He isn’t equipped or capable to go it alone, he needs someone to tell him what to do. The strings are cut.
It doesn’t matter who lies or who doesn’t. If you lie, you believe people do the same. Be the change you want to see 🙂
I believe Asunsolo’s letter displays a level of character we would all benefit from seeing more of in the world. Acknowledging that his actions resulting from anger, even hatred, have created a barrier between him and a person he was once so close with – understanding the damage it may have caused – taking responsibility for his actions – and putting forth the effort in order to do the work with his former friend to repair the connection they once had. More of this needs to happen in the world
“It is in some respects a witch hunt for certainly not every person in Nxivm was a scoundrel. But the mere tinge of Nxivm and prior membership is enough to cause fear and loathing”.
In my opinion this was the real objective of Mark and his teammates. To make everyone in Nxivm no matter who a ugly and bad person. Do they succed? What was their gain? At the end, what do they get?
People can try to keep in contact. You can be friends with people with very different political and religious views or even very different views on covid 19 measures as we are seeing in the UK and US – families even with very different views do not have to fall out.
It’s up to both sides however if they want to initiate contact or keep it up. Many cults and extreme religions shun outsiders as they have the one true light and do not want to be sullied by external influences. If Nexivm5 are saying that is not the case for them that’s great – the more outside influences everyone has on them the better.
Lawsuits aren’t evil in and of themselves. They are tools. Good people can use them in a good way, good people can use them in a bad way, bad people can use them in a good way and bad people can use them in a bad way.
I don’t think people in the Nxivm camp are saying that all legal proceedings against individuals are bad, just the ones where people abuse the tool to get a result that fits their vested, non-truth seeking agendas.
This applies to both camps.
I hope to one day live in a world where Mark can respond to such a letter with the same attitude Eduardo presented.
Really? That’s your biggest world to live in hope? About Mark and culty exchanging same attitude letters? Dream bigger!
“He began a fight and while I used the Frank Report to write about Raniere, he used a camera. This dude filmed everything he did. Maybe he filmed 1000 hours or more for every hour aired.
The whole battle he had with Raniere, with his fellow fighters, Catherine Oxenberg, Sarah Edmondson, Anthony Ames, Bonnie Piesse, and others, notably Kristin Keeffe and myself, was filmed. All the while planning to use it in a documentary”.
He uses his power and his relations to make something good look so evil. It was not about one person or one group making “bad” things, it was making everyone related to the group a criminal. It is pure EVIL. It is Machiavellian the way in which he proceeds and acts. All was carefully planed.
You are filled with so much hate towards Vicente, Joshua.
Don’t focus on how you feel like a victim.
Reach out to your family.
I’m sure it is scary to think about, but I’ll bet you they have love for you.
Vicente is a film-maker, having one of those in the family is as dodgy as having a family member who’s a writer, they are never off [if they have even a chance of being good that is] and nothing is ever off limits – its all grist to the mill. The old shard of ice in the heart. The more I consider Vicente, the more I come to the conclusion that his best work has just begun and still lies ahead. Which seems a better destiny than – still lies.
At the very least it’s not a good idea in light of ongoing litigation. And sentencing. Maybe wait till all of that plays out. And then apologize to Bonnie. From a distance.
I choose to believe that this is an honest attempt to reach across a boundary and understand one another. We need more of this in this divided world.
I want to add:
So, the government, in its prosecution, represents the people, and they have a right to enforce the law.
Isn’t this what Vanguard did through lawsuits? He sued, bankrupted, then re-sued again in bankruptcy court for years and years, damaging lives. Bankrupting people. Costing millions that could have gone to charity.
Can we say that was “hate”?
If the government pursued action against Vanguard and you are calling the government’s legal action “hate”, can’t we say the same for the Nxivm lawsuits?
Of course, we can. Practice what you preach, right? What goes around comes around?
If a lawsuit is ” hate”, then Nxivm sounds hypocritical in not practicing what it preaches.
For people still living in the mental echo chamber of NXIVM, it is puzzling and frustrating to see that outsiders are skeptical and have the critical thinking skills to see through the deceptions and manipulations of The World’s Smartest Man™.
This isn’t surprising, since it takes years for most people to unlearn cult indoctrination.
However, I’ll admit I’m bemused by their inability to do anything other than repeat the lines about hate, lies, “Keith was kidnapped,” etc. I’d have thought them capable of a bit more sophistication.
Nxians’ critical thinking skills are so fried.
I wonder how much they had to begin with?
Frank Report offers an excellent education in the depth of cult coercive thought reform.
True-believer Nxians are like fish out of water writhing about struggling to breathe.
If only they would realize they have lungs, not gills.
Existential illusion in full effect.
I agree 100%.
You can tell the Nxian responses: they reiterate the flag word of the day, then fill the rest with proverbs that don’t apply.
I’m not seeing critical analysis and critical thinking. I’m seeing script reading….what actors do…?
Nxians, start by questioning KRs superpowers. Jam radar? Simple to test. Doesn’t rain on him? Simple to test. World’s smartest man? Simple to test.
None of this was ever tested and challenged. You went along with it.
Then, move on to the picture on the wall. ” Vanguard”. Glimpses at night playing volleyball. Bowing to the photo on the wall.
And that’s just Day 1!!
I am not a cult expert — but you’ll have to look far to find a better critical thinker.
I don’t hate you. I don’t hate anyone.
When you would like an analysis on “word salad”, I will help you. Keith’s word salad is mind-boggling. It is such nonsense I can hear you saying, “Wow! It must be brilliant.”
No, it’s not; it’s nonsense.
It is very frustrating for us on the outside to see such capable people unable to get past the smoke and mirrors.
I agree: go home to family and friends and tell them you’re back.
Same with when my sister one Christmas when she was in a cult gave me a book of the leader’s writings – load of rubbish when you analysed what each sentence said. Lots of words but not too much substance but you cannot understand that when you are into these cults, sadly (and she when she was in that group and now and many of the Nxm people are very smart).
Who cares where Eduardo got the idea to reach out to Mark Vicente? If someone is willing to put down pride and blame to initiate dialogue and fix/work on relationships that have been seriously broken, why is the source of it to be questioned?
Evaluate the action Eduardo is doing. A good action is a good action, no matter where it comes from.
I love reading all of the “philosophical” comments regarding a bunch of f*cked up NXIVM people. It reminds me of throwing pearls of wisdom towards the NXIVM piggies.
[…] reader, “Crucible,” responded to Raniere-supporter Eduardo Asunsolo’s open letter to Nxivm-defector Mark Vicente: “It’s brave of Eduardo to reach out […]
Descartes considered that the main method to reach the truth, to the extent that we are able to achieve it, is the doubt regarding all the knowledge existed until now.
It is good to see you are searching for knowledge outside of NXIVM and considering a thinker other than KR.
Since you’ve discovered Descartes, some questions for you:
How do you know KR isn’t a figment of your imagination?
How do I know you aren’t a figment of my imagination?
Is your experience in NXIVM a nightmare from which you may wake up?
🤣. But I don’t think our guests discovered anything on their own. They’re not allowed.
All they know about Descartes is a webpage full of quotes. They think other people are impressed by a little name dropping as they are.
They have no clue about empiricism and what debates drove it.
For the bitter-enders it is “Keith thinks, therefore, I am.”
It is correct about the website, however, the quote is honorable, what I find impressive is that as you know what I think. You claim that I discovered Descartes as if his existence were something hidden.
Gentlemen, we must maintain a neutral position and the legal consequences to whom they correspond.
The institutions that make up the nation must be reliable. Do not allow it to divert its course due to media pressure.
Wow, Jhon Cartesius, you admit that you’ve never read anything beyond a page of Descartes’ greatest hits quotes.
It doesn’t even occur to you that admitting this proves you’re a poser.
No, there’s nothing hidden about Descartes. _Meditations on First Philosophy_ is the first text covered in the vast majority of Modern Philosophy courses.
Take such a course! Highly recommend it.
Thank you for the insight into the NXIVM curriculum: depth of knowledge is irrelevant, while spouting profound sounding sentences one doesn’t understand is the be-all and end-all of learning.
And you paid how much for this?
There is a difference between ” doubting truths” and turning common themes inside out to try and baffle people with intelligence. This latter aspect is called word salad, and KR passed it off in the name of his heightened intelligence. He took common truisms and turned them inside out, then strung them together with irrelevant add ons.
I could teach a semester on the YouTube video, where he made no sense at all but left AM in drama tears over his brilliance. How sad!
I recall he said, ” Being free is not able to do what you want” or something like that.
If true, isn’t being locked in jail true freedom??
It is correct about the website, however, the quote is honorable, what I find impressive is that as you know what I think. You claim that I discovered Descartes as if his existence were something hidden.
Gentlemen, we must maintain a neutral position and the legal consequences to whom they correspond.
The institutions that make up the nation must be reliable. Do not allow it to divert its course due to media pressure.
“keep their identities private for this is an enormous badge of dishonor to be known to have once associated with Raniere”. Interest statement, in reality people who knows you know who you are. If you rise the fear, eventhoug the ones who knows you will still supporting you. Why because they have an experience of you. SO this is an mislead statement. There are peoples who engages in Fear, people who do not know you.
Joshua, it seems like you are really struggling with KR’s conviction and sentencing. A social support network that you’ve depended upon has lost almost all its strength.
I’d imagine you feel very lonely.
I’m sure you have family and friends you’ve distanced yourself from because they weren’t into NXIVM who would love to talk to you again. If talking is too hard of a first step, write them a letter.
I’m sure there are people who love you, people you’ve pushed away for years, who would be thrilled to hear from you and reconnect.
Not sure why anybody would think that Eduardo is seeking real forgiveness or real dialogue.
Frank is the most gullible guy I know. 🙂
He’s being used by Eduardo.
Eduardo’s carefully worded plea for forgiveness is wrapped inside an obvious attitude that he doesn’t feel Keith did anything wrong.
This reminds me of Toni Natalie’s attempt to restore relations with Susan Dones during the lead up to the trial.
(At least I think it was Susan Dones who posted those text messages between her and Toni, if memory serves).
Susan Dones would ask Toni if she was REALLY sorry about the lies she spread behind Frank’s back (about the FBI wanting to arrest Frank if he showed up at the trial).
Yet instead of ‘apologizing’ for spreading those lies about Frank behind his back, Toni would just keep asking Susan to bury the hatchet without ever defining what the ‘hatchet’ really was, LOL.
Habitual liars and cult perverts (like Eduardo) never admit to any specific bad acts. Instead, they always seek forgiveness by playing on people’s sympathy ——- and by side-stepping any SPECIFICS about their previous bad behavior.
If Eduardo is really sorry then let’s fucken hear him say that Keith is a pervert sex predator, in his own specific words.
Barring that, Frank is just being played by this guy like fiddle.
IMO, Frank sounds like he’s been taken for a ride by this Eduardo character. Frank seems to have bitten on this guy’s bait. Hook, line and sinker. LOL.
Frank needs to become a better judge of character.
But then again, Frank spent years trashing Allison Mack and Kristin Kreuk. Yet recently, after he spoke with them (or their friends) on the phone, he’s now forgiven them and is actively trying to discourage anybody from trashing them.
Frank has done a full 180 degree turn from his previous positions and it’s quite comical that he doesn’t see how foolish it makes him look.
Have a nice day. 🙂
All. Decent parents encourage all of their children regardless of gender not to hit. It is a fundamental element of our social contract.
It is mind boggling idiocy that Raniere preached. Stating this “wound” only happened to boy children. Maybe if you are being raised by an imbecile. Most children understand very, very quickly. ” I don’t like being physically hurt. I should not physically hurt other people” only a sadistic, sociopath would feel his rights were violated as a child because he was not permitted to beat other children with impunity. And that this resulted in a permanent psychic wound.
Conscientious parents teach their children of both genders not to hit so that they do not grow up to injury other people. 1st because that is horrible. And consequently so they do not end up in prison.
If there is any additional emphasis to a boy child as they grow ( and assuming they are still punching girls) it is because as a society we find it particularly odious when a bigger, stronger person abuses a smaller one. And though there is an exception to any rule ( insert arguments about female body builders here) generally speaking men are bigger. And stronger.
And from reproductive age on any female could be pregnant. Whether you can see it or not. So. Yeah. Males don’t make it a habit to beat up girls or women. And women don’t hit men. Or other woman. If you had a healthy upbringing you learned this and moved on. That a foundation of Nxium beliefs are built on this lunacy that “boys only are told not to hit and it is beyond their comprehension to understand why and the result is a wound from toddler age that never heals” is fucking insane. And that no one in the room listening to vanguard spew this moronic reasoning stood up and said, ” what a crock of shit”. Is one of the true mysteries of the universe. They should have at least burst out laughing.
After doing some research it seems that Eduardo and others have tried to reach out to Mark and he hasn’t respond. I understand his unwillingness to do so. However it is sad to see how this community got destroyed and it seems nothing will bring it back unless this efforts of beginning a dialog work. There’s many people with financial gains due to this fight. Tv series, books, articles. It is clear that for some people war between this community is more profitable than peace.
Re ” However it is sad to see how this community got destroyed …”
What a strange attitude you have – which only suggests you are a Nxivm cult follower and an ardent admirer of Raniere.
What is sad about the fact that this community no longer exists. It was based on false ideals and false values, criminality aside.
What can one miss in it? Be glad that it is over, for the sake of the victims and for the damage done to all.
That is what the Nazis said about the Jews…
No, you don’t get to compare Nxivm, DOS and Keith Raniere to the holocaust. Even when you’re the bad guys, it’s not appropriate. More hyperbole.
To Anthony – I agree, it’s really sad this and other communities in the world, even families, fall apart. Very sad.
It’s amazing to think that they can come back together, I think it’s so rare that that happens. So to even think it’s possible or take baby steps toward that … I think could be so healing for the world. Not in a woo-woo way, but a legit serious helpful way, less wars, less deaths, etc.
I think we usually want to be the ones who are “right” and defending that becomes way more important than healing any relationship. As much as that’s our natural instinct, it’s also pretty lame.
And good point about all the profits made from book deals, TV shows, etc.
It begs to question who is suppressing who, and who is bulling who?
It is easy to see this by asking the following questions:
Who has been silenced and who is doing the silencing?
Who is being vilified and who is doing the vilifying?
Who is the one who destroyed?
Who is profiting and enriching him and herself out of the destruction?
Your question implies that there is such a thing as an ultimate victim.
Reread the 2nd of the 12-point NXIVM Mission Statement.
If you or anyone else in NXIVM perceive themselves or anyone else as a victim, you are living an illusion.
Unless you have decided that KR isn’t what he claims to be…
Unless the 12-point NXIVM Mission Statement is faulty…
“Vicente spoke. He tried to tell Asunsolo that he was there for him, willing to help, inform him, give him the assurance that everything that was being said about Keith was true, and that he, Vicente had been in his shoes before”. Is that a fact or just a version from Vicente. There is always a way to look like a heroe when you are really a murderer.
Exactly – who are the ones looking like a hero while doing the murdering when it comes to NXIVM?
KR looks like a convicted felon while really having committed felonies.
KR has been convicted while MV and company look like heroes and are taking it to the bank. Going by what Joshua wrote – “There is always a way to look like a hero when you are really a murderer”. So can it be possible that MV and company are the criminals instead of KR and NXIVM?
If any of you have seen Game of Thrones season 1, you will be able to understand how easy it is to twist a story.
I am not saying KR is innocent or not – I do not know. What I can tell is that there is a narrative being fed. Things can be taken out of context and be made to look very bad. The Vow and the other documentary have many inconsistencies and the stories don’t fit.
One sentence says “you don’t know” the next makes an ‘is’ statement implying knowledge of a fact. This kind of dissembling yields no information. Take a stand [define your terms] and defend it by stating examples of the ‘many inconsistencies’ in both documentaries and precisely why they ‘don’t fit’.
“KR has been convicted while MV and company look like heroes and are taking it to the bank.”
Exactly, your “Vanguard” is going to be locked in a rat and roach infested prison, miserable for the rest of his so-called life. MV and company are walking free.
Why do you hate MV and company so much? Why do you feel like a victim. Remember NXIVM point 2: there are no ultimate victims; therefore, don’t be a victim.
“There is always a way to look like a hero when you are really a murderer”
No, there is no way for The World’s Smartest Man™ to look like a hero. He’s a filthy child rapist, scam artist.
We are dealing with the real world, not a TV fantasy.
Having lived in the NXIVM bubble for so many years, you think all you need to do is state something to make it true. The real world isn’t like that.
Wah, my friend won’t talk to me.
Wah, I was expelled from Mexico and arrested in the US.
Wah, I was rightfully denied bail because I was a flight risk.
Wah, the prosecution was able to tell the jury about all the abortions I coerced my harem to have.
Wah, I was too dumb to put on a defense but will now blame it on my loyal supporters being afraid to defend me in public.
Wah, I had sex with underage girls on the regular and talked about raping babies in seminars which normal people seem to hate.
Wah, I am in prison because of all of my best decisions placed me here.
Wah, I am a victim.
Wah, wah, wah…
Imagine, no one wants to hire you because you’ve shown poor judgement with impaired critical thinking skills, while devoting your life to a criminal enterprise based off of discarded, loathed, exploitative and garbage ideologies, that hold greed and self interest as it’s highest ideal. Welcome to the consequences of your actions. I run in the other direction at the whiff of a Scientologist, same holds true for most. NXIVM is no different.
EXACTLY! Thank you for stating the obvious in an easy to understand way. I’m baffled by those who do not understand your points.
It can be hard to communicate with a person who was once your friend or acquaintance but went to the other two ends of the journey. Maybe it’s possible. But I guess it will never really be the real thing.
It’s brave to reach out to someone who has such a proven track record of large-scale character defamation. Why would somebody do that? Eduardo has nothing to gain and everything to lose, materially, by reaching out publicly. Why would he do that?
—Why would he do that?
Cuz he’s cuckoo for Coco Puffs™️
Coco Puffs is a good start to a balanced breakfast.
1. FAME, or it’s dark side – in this case, especially, Notoriety.
2. Self-Aggrandizement, pomposity, elitism.
NXIANS place themselves — under “Vanguard” and “Prefect” — as being among those special, super souls who serve the greater purpose by obeisance to their infallible, superhuman leaders — so long as they promptly pay for courses few can afford and/or ‘work’ in lieu of payment and keep their vow to never, ever be a victim no matter what the said leaders do to them or have them do to one another.
3. Perceived Power. There’s the ‘Power’ by rank within a hierarchal structure. And, then — due to the misogyny — there’s the promise of power, dominance over the feminine. (This is, btw, the battle that rages most fiercely in Keith Raniere’s fractured psyche, IMHO.)
4. Prospect of wealth or reward – business success guaranteed…eventually. Then, there’s all that Mexican elite/Bronfman wealth to ‘network,” rub elbows with, etc.
5. Normalizing of psychosis or psychotic behavior. True, that’s happening all over the place these days, however no where so obvious to me as the recent NXIVM dick/cunt salute splay outside the sex offender unit windows of the MDC.
Yes, I’m calling y’all psycho bc, no, this kind of behavior is not normal, it is highly self-destructive, within the context it is PSYCHOTIC!
Btw, so is paying (in any way) to hear about how normal it is to fuck babies. Or for a mother to succor an infant’s penis, whatever THAT teaching was about. Or for females to be deceptively (in most cases) branded on the puss with someone’s monogram Etc. etc. etc.
But, please, feel free to add to this list and pardon my judgement but you asked so nicely for it.
Asking Albert, Just curious & PioneerofPossible all keep parroting the same phrase here: “agree to disagree.”
Eduardo, Andy & PioneerofPossible are pushing “forgiveness.”
ReadOn’s version is letting “bygones-be-bygones.”
Hmmmm… wonder where they might have gotten the idea to put forward that line?
Sorry Happy to say, Mr. Smartest Man Alive™, Vicente is already very much agreeing to disagree with you and will continue to do so by producing another season of The Vow.
Leave Mark and therefore Bonnie and her marriage alone. Did you apologize for shunning her? Directly to Bonnie? Trying to ruin her marriage? Being a misogynist pig? Teaching other men to be misogynists? Or did you leap frog over all that to get to Mark and his camera? Leave Bonnie alone. It’s the right thing to do.
I wish we could put aside disagreements and be able to clash thoughts. It may take longer, but then you decide I would take the opportunity.
Was the NXIVM-5’s claim really that “Keith alone was telling the truth?” That seems a bit dramatic, and too black and white. I believe they have made specific claims of lying on specific points by the prosecution team (see makejusticeblind.com), and perhaps of some of the witnesses, while I haven’t seen them claim any lying by Raniere. I don’t know if that quite equates to “Keith alone was telling the truth.” Perhaps, “they have made no public claims of Keith lying” would be a more accurate statement?
Damn, when Nxians decide to split hairs they pull out an electron microscope!
Have you thought about running for Vice President of your middle school debate club?
This is an interesting point – is it not worth “splitting hairs” when seemingly minor misrepresentations of the facts bias readers in one way or another? “Keith alone was telling the truth” seems to me to support the “these people are brainwashed” narrative more than saying, “they have made no public claims of Keith lying.”
If more people were willing to write letter like this would avoid a lot of problems in the world.
I have heard in the media and other comments posted refer to Keith Raniere advocating for child rape which, if true, is horrible – does nyone know more about how or when he said that?
Or are people referring to statutory rape which he wasn’t charged with as a crime for some reason?
I find it hard to believe anyone would say that raping a child is ok so I would like to know more context.
While the idea is horrific – to say the words “child rape” is not a crime and to do the act is and he should be in prison for that but he wasn’t charged with that crime… makes no sense to me…
“Do you understand how you could rape a baby? I could make it a baby that’s very rapeable.” ~ Keith Raniere, Seduced 2020
It’s captured on video in the miniseries.
Well, he didn’t originally say it in Seduced, he was locked up while they were filming that…where does it come from originally? And what is the context? I once said I could eat a horse…I said it because I was very hungry…I’ve never actually eaten a horse…
Does the moniker The World’s Smartest Child Rapist™ sting a bit?
I bet you can think of other prison experiences that sting even more.
You are better off just letting it go rather than continuing to raise the issue. The more times the phrase “child rape” appears, the higher the Frank Report ranks in web searches.
Prisoners have access to the internet and they search for info on chomos.
IDK who “Albert” is but this whole baby rape discussion reminds me of something Gina told me. Gina is my little sister, who was experimented on by Keith & Co. after being raped by Keith and ultimately suicided herself. Frank has and is producing film projects that include her NXIVM story and I believe it is an important and helpful one.
Gina told me that Keith explained to her that in 3rd world countries mothers gave “succor and comfort” to their hungry infants by giving them blowjobs.
The context: Gina didn’t like oral sex, Keith supposedly wanted to help her overcome that obstacle to her spiritual advancement.
I seriously thought it was a joke, laughed it off prolly. Keith was obviously making it up just to get sucked off. Gina was told I was Luciferian-level insensitive to starving children in Africa, as well as Keith’s greatness, and so it went over and over whenever I called out anything as another sexcuse brought to you by Keith & Co.
IDK if this is what the baby fucking thing stems from or not but I hope it helps.
If this were Scientology, there’d be almost no question that Asunsolo was writing Vicente as some combination of PR gambit such as to pose him as being unresponsive, and carefully calibrated effort to reach out to him with the ultimate goal of convincing him to cease his criticism.
NXIVM was not quite as highly and rigidly organized as Scientology, but we know that Raniere deliberately copied ideas and tactics from the older cult, plus high control groups just tend to evolve similar behavior and methods. However, we’ve definitely seen the NXIVM 5 are coordinating their efforts at least at times, possibly even under the direction of Raniere. So I think the suspicion that I see others have voiced, that this is some sort of disingenuous and calculated gambit, is well-founded, particularly given that Asunsolo aired it publicly rather than pursuing it privately.
I agree 100%. You can tell it’s a community effort by the nexian responses. ” oh, how about this ” and ” how about that ” the responses revolve around each other in a very strategic way.
Very, very sly and calculating.
Raniere is trying to copy how David Miscavige brought Marty Rathbun back into the fold, but I think the dynamics are very different and I doubt it is going to work.
Rathbun had his price and never really gave up on the tech, but Keith’s financial resources are more and more sketchy while Vicente has his own income stream that is very much tied to being anti-NXIVM and has no kind words for the tech.
Miscavige sits behind a massive wall of non-disclosure and forced arbitration agreements, offshore accounts that he directly manages, a phalanx of excellent (scum sucking) attorneys and squads of PIs. Scientology is an IRS-recognized religion, so he’s got the 1st Amendment fig leaf and tax shelters galore.
Raniere can only dream of such power at this point.
Fascinating to see how “Vanguard” has directed his minions to adopt brown nosing, psuedo-enlightened rhetoric in this thread–a marked contrast from 1) the general abstractions about “justice” and “truth,” 2) vague, unsupported claims about “lies,” 3) whining about “hate,” 4) smearing “Vanguard’s” opponents we see elsewhere in this forum.
The NXIVM bitter-enders are committed to the grift.
Jesus- Frank, find something else to write about. The never-ending ‘examination’ of this bullshit is exhausting. It rarely provides any insight/information not currently known. You oscillate between these posts and self-indulgent anecdotes where you remind everyone you had a hand in taking Keith down. There are 3 documentaries that credit your role- we get it. Everyone should just stick to Reddit.
Oh, no-we now have active engagement with nxians. It’s just getting good.
Reddit is so fucking lame.
People find the topics fascinating.
Before The Vow and Seduced came out Frank was moving the Frank Report away from the Nxivm story.
In fact, Frank declared the Nxivm saga was over and he was moving the Frank Report in a new direction.
Once the documentaries premiered it was like two tidal waves hit. The public has been clamoring for more.
New readers are coming to the Frank Report.
Anonymous, you, and I have been following the story for over a year.
We already know everything except for court updates. Other readers, however, are looking for information.
Why should Frank only cater to our needs?
‘Why should Frank only cater to our needs?’ that’s a good point NG. I never thought of it that way.
That being said, my needs are not being met Frank! More KR Claviger shooting down cry baby Jane’s theories please.
We will be catering to your needs very soon, according to Claviger.
Frank, I enjoy the way you painted the scene at the trial with your words. I recently watched a TED talk about the writer behind the original “Toy Story” (1995) and he explained that one groundbreaking thing about the film was that it didn’t have the traditional good guy/bad guy as part of the plot. There was conflict, but neither Woody nor Buzz were the bad guy. Maybe the relationship between Mark and Eduardo is similar and neither one is the bad guy …
They are both bad guys who don’t like each other.
Eduardo is neither Woody nor Buzz. He would make a good Ken from TS3. KR is Lots-O-Huggin’ Bear ofcourse, with Big Baby as his alter-ego/aka.
I do respect one piece of clarity in this letter; that he still stands where he stands, but has opened up to speaking with someone completely adverse to his stance. I’d like to think I sense a moment of reflection on their friendship. Maybe a bygones-be-bygones type of moment. We can’t know what is going on behind the scenes for either of them, but it’s at least an ownership of the state of their relationship. Good luck.
You really need to put some dressing on that word salad–pretty bland as-is.
It’s called desperation.
Maybe they can just agree to disagree and move on with their lives without hate or getting caught up in other people’s lives…
For me, on the contrary, it’s the slightly ‘superior/grandiose’ position Eduardo adopted that rang alarm bells: I am in the right, you’re in the wrong, but I am willing to be magnanimous and forgive you… and state so on a public forum. And what does this statement even mean? “Today I’m not so sure that the silence I used against you that day did much for the people I love.”? What did his ‘snubbing’ of MV have anything to do with the people he loves? Is he implying that his silence goaded MV into being ‘nasty’ to them? Or what? Just so many odd little details that don’t ring true. To me it doesn’t read like a genuine attempt at reconciliation. You read this with different ‘filters’ to mine, and we’ll both never know, really. Only Eduardo knows, and only if he’s willing to really look at his stated and hidden intentions.
“We must develop and maintain the capacity to forgive. He who is devoid of the power to forgive is devoid of the power to love,” Martin Luther King Jr.
I hope Mark has found or is finding a way to forgive, too; even if he doesn’t contact Eduardo.
If you ever wake up to the evil you have participated in and abetted for years by your involvement with NXIVM, I hope you find a way to forgive yourself.
Although I’m generally quite sarcastic on this forum, for once I mean this sincerely.
I don’t care what Vicente thinks, because he doesn’t…think.
Polaris, I’m curious–who did nxivm forgive with their endless lawsuits?
Please share. Serious.
It seems like Eduardo had to swallow some serious pride to put forgiveness on the table.
Eduardo has been swallowing his pride to please his “Vanguard” since Day One in NXIVM.
He’s an obedient boy, as evidenced by this open letter.
Perhaps he was swallowing a certain part of The World’s Smartest Man™ as well…
You are a good person.
But please do not be a sap and communicate directly with your friend.
Since I don’t believe in brainwashing and have personal experience of a very dirty prosecution from an unrelated case, I’m willing to hear what these folks have to say.
The majority of Raniere’s supporters, at least the ones willing to speak publicly, have excellent educational and professional backgrounds. I don’t see them as brainwashed cronies but we can agree to disagree on that point.
In reviewing the evidence and documents they’ve provided, many points certainly hold some serious weight. If even some of them are true, Mark V is going to have some serious issues on his hand and for him to ignore Eduardo’s outreach may not be in his best interest in the long run.
Anyone else think it is strange that Mark went from loving Ramtha to hating it and then did the same, well actually much worse, with NXIVM? Also, I thought Mark and India were on the same team but after watching Seduced it seems India sees Mark as a perpetrator.
Does anyone know the story there?
The real story is all of the NXIVM people are f*cked up in the head. Any other questions?
“If even some of them are true, Mark V is going to have some serious issues on his hand and for him to ignore Eduardo’s outreach may not be in his best interest in the long run.”
Ooooo… a threat.
Clumsy move, “Vanguard.”
Dude, you tried your best to destroy Vicente and it didn’t work. You’ve already blown your wad as far as incriminating evidence goes.
The old threat/love bomb technique you’ve directed your minions to follow in this thread doesn’t work so well when people aren’t living in the NXIVM bubble.
You’re better off using your time to work on controlling your gag reflex. Might help you become the prison wife of a shot caller when you find your forever home.
In my opinion, it’s good news that two individuals are willing to start a dialogue with respect. Two individuals can be friends, even when they have different opinions of one subject.
I’ve been following the Damon Brink story and the Javier Jileta story and I looked into some others as well. What is happening to these folks is nothing short of hate crimes.
There are thousands of people who took classes from NXIVM and never even met or knew Raniere or Bronfman or even heard of the word DOS in their lives, yet now they are at risk of brutal treatment that they never earned nor deserve.
I agree with Frank: this is a witch hunt. I used to take Bikram yoga classes. Their CEO was accused of horrible sexual harassment and rape. Should I be fired from my job?
How about all of us who use Uber? Should footage of us be published internationally against our will leading to horrific damage to our lives and reputations?
It is just not right to celebrate some “whistleblowers” as poor victims yet anyone who took a class there even if they never were even aware of who Keith is, or even if they just aren’t the type of person to speak out negatively about a person or situation, or even if they do publicly denounce Raniere, is still subject to this type of thing, is such a sad indicator of where we are as a society.
Why aren’t those folks considered victims too and if they are, why continue to hurt people who have been hurt? I hope these folks see their day in court.
Jileta is different than Damon Brink because Jileta was a high ranked government official. He showed he has a poor moral compass by sitting in classes where Keith justified rape and even becoming a coach in nxivm. It is also dangerous for Mexico to have a high-ranking government official with Nxivm ties. Is he being blackmailed and controlled by a foreign actor? That was Keith’s goal.
Having a government office is very different than being in the private sector. I think we have every right to question how our tax dollars are spent.
In response to Andy K, I agree. “Whistleblowers,” “victims,” the media, the government, and even the general public have been performing hateful acts against Keith and anyone affiliated with NXIVM. Also, reinforcing hate hurts the people dishing it out in addition to hurting the people on the receiving end. Hate just makes a huge mess.
There is no hate crime status for targeted violence against women even though men commit 90-99% of violent crimes and women are specifically targeted by them. Let me get this straight, you want discrimination of an invitation-only members cult geared towards educated, mostly White, wealthy people to be designated a Hate Crime?
“We were just being greedy self-entitled boot lickers, feel sorry for us!”
April 7, 1933
Law dismisses Jews from civil service
April 7, 1933
Law dismisses Jews from civil service
I hope that Eduardo’s intentions are for a sincere reconciliation and, of course, I hope that Mark will respond and engage in an open and civilized dialogue that helps clarify the truth in the face of thousands of people who participated in the NXVM courses.
“It is in some respects a witch hunt for certainly not every person in Nxivm was a scoundrel. But the mere tinge of Nxivm and prior membership is enough to cause fear and loathing”.
It was the main objective and it was successful. All related people to Nxivm is now related to a criminal gang. It was a principle that Mr. Raniere look for with real criminals and then here we are. People hating people with nonsense accusations and beliefs.
Joshua, success is an interior state of clear and honest awareness of who “Vanguard” and you are, your value in the world and your responsibility for the reactions you have to all things.
There are no ultimate victims; therefore, choose not to be a victim.
All the things “Vanguard” and you are feeling that you think other people are causing are not caused by other people. You are the only ones causing your feelings and you are the only ones responsible for what you are feeling.
Others are not doing anything to you. Others are a stimulus.
You are causing your own reaction internally. You’re the ones responsible for everything. No matter what anybody else does, all the upset you have at other people, all the complaining about what people are doing, really it’s not them, it’s you.
Joshua, I know you adopted the ” hate” mantra. This one word is very powerful, like ” racist” and ” homophobe.” Hey,, even ” female empowerment ”
Who doesn’t want that!??
One and two word mantras are VERY powerful marketing tools. Hate. Empowerment. Racist. Fifth Ave stuff right here and now!
Don’t confuse hate. Not everyone hates you or anyone else in your group. Personally, I am trying to understand you.
I would, however, like to ask you an honest question:
Do any of the people who gave victim impact statements have a right to be upset? Hate? Anything? If you were locked in a room for two years, do you have a right to hate?
Don’t lecture on hate. The question is, does one have a “right” to hate until they find forgiveness?
Hey mantra again. Keep it going! Awesome powerful one word. Who came up with that, since it seems to be a new battle cry!?
“the silence I used against you” — the silent treatment is considered a form of emotional abuse, and if he still can’t see what’s wrong that cult between victims coming forward about child rape to the branding of women, what’s even the point?
What’s the point of talking to anyone who doesn’t condemn evil? as MLK once said: “To ignore evil is to be an accomplice to evil.” that’s what I think of in regards to a lot of them!
Anyway Frank’s the best part of this whole story to me! haha I love to see someone who was bullied come out on top
‘haha…I love to see someone who was bullied come out on top’
Best thing ever.
The tactics and reasoning (or lack of) used in this witch hunt leaves me to wonder where the evil really lies. Jileta denounced (condemned) Raniere and still is not trusted. Which demonstrates to me that people just want to punish, sit on the sidelines and shout out, “That is not me, see how good I am.” To ignore that kind of evil – the evil of standing by and watching good people be destroyed out of hate that is stoked with distorted information and lies – yes, that is being an accomplice to evil. There are people who have distanced themselves and stayed quiet who object to Keith’s behavior but also know that there are good people being destroyed in this. Who can blame them when you see what happens to Brink or Jileta (and many others that just didn’t make print).
Keith was NOT promoting rape. Video clips have been taken out of context. There would not have been so many people participating as students and coaches if that were the case. Give people some credit.
Knowing that there are differing political views on this site, this is for the left-wing side – this is exactly the type of “accomplice to the evil” behavior that set the stage for Trump being elected as president and almost re-elected. So stop being shocked, stop with the “That’s not me” bullshit and start looking at your own participation.
The thing is “IT’S NOT US”. That’s right. most of us are not swindling exploitative lying ex-members of a filthy cult – imagining that we suddenly have a claim to righteousness smack bang in the middle of that field y’all are camped in, that one that lies beyond right and wrong. So why the fuss? If you are beyond such things as basic morality, why do you need to prove your falsehoods right? And why does truth appear to you to be equivalent to hate?
Don’t you feel any gratitude for the very gracious interest being extended to you, here on the FR?
That was a pretty hateful response, but I am feeling it too, so I guess I get it.
Would you consider your response to me to be bullying? What you wrote is the hate I am talking about and that hate is not the truth. It prompted me to look back at what I wrote and how I also contribute to hate and escalation that I am not sure needs to happen (and yet we are human). Pulling out the statements related to cutting the bullshit would be one thing I could change. I am definitely angry when I say those things.
I am sorry if the answer should be obvious, but what is the falsehood you see that I am trying to prove right?
I don’t think this is a sham of an effort to figure this out. There seems to be genuine question, mixed feelings, reluctance about pursuing understanding and possible forgiveness. This is uncomfortable and scary.
That was a rebuke Mae, with no hatred intended. I think your claim of being subject to a witch-hunt is false to facts. I think it is a sham and I feel for your discomfort and fear in the face of it. Its ok to be rebuked and corrected. It happens all the time in life if you are trying, really trying hard to learn something systemic: music, languages, legal processes – someone’s [anonymous] opinion online engages with the information you put online, take it or leave it, it was given in good faith.
You’ve exposed the debility of the Nxian mind, NFW.
Their thoughts and feelings are so degraded by the years of coercive thought reform that they are unable to perceive the world around them outside of a few cliches.
Anything that challenges them is “hate” and/or “lie.”
True that, nxidvmdvm, I just hope that there is an understanding that having one’s head on back to front need not be a permanent state. Truth, contrition, and redemption: these things can lead one back from the centre of the most complex labyrinth of lies.
Anything that challenges the media or the legal narrative is “brainwashed” and/or a “lie”.
Jileta was different because he was a high ranked government official . He needed to renounce and do action against NXIVM.
He did nothing to help Victims . It is unclear how brainwashed he still was . It was a threat to Mexico’s national security to have him, especially given how that Keith’s plan was to get inside the Mexican government.
It is surprising that once in power Javier did nothing for Victims . Doing nothing is Siding with nxivm. It is supporting the oppressor
What is it about Mark Vicente, professional film-maker, creator of the hit HBO documentary – The Vow – that would be of interest to the nexium 5?
I think it takes a lot of guts to put one’s pride and opinions to the side and look for a dialogue between two former friends.
I hope these two men can talk, share their perspectives and for more of the truth to come out.
I commend Mark and Eduardo for each doing what they thought was right. I hope there’s a next step for them.
This reminds me of wars where both sides decide to stop the battle for a holiday. It is of great importance that there exists honor amongst people in adversary sides, because there will always be conflict in this world, but that doesn’t mean there has to be hate.
It’s quite impressive to read some of the replies here, it seems that it doesn’t matter what someone puts out there, it can always be made bad.
I do not know Asunsolo’s intent, and it very well could be of some strategic nature, I just don’t know if that would take the goodness out of the equation. For the worst case scenario is that Vicente engages with a man he claims to care for.
Eduardo, as for me I do not see anything negative in seeking forgiveness and in trying to restore a former friendship. However, having left a cult myself more than 20 years ago, I needed some time to be restored both physically and mentally before I was able to meet with still-members, former members and the (now-no-longer) cult leader.
Forgiveness is always possible and helps us stop this hamster wheel of thoughts and emotions, always circling around that which has happened to us as we are now seeking to find out the whole truth. Forgiveness gives us peace of heart and mind even though we might still disagree on our personal perspectives of ‘the cult’ (not everyone realized having been in a cult and thus some quickly joined the next manipulative group).
That being said, having forgiven others sets us free even if they disagree with us and do not seek our forgiveness in return. Having met several former friends in the past and having talked to them was only partly helpful as our perspectives differed widely. Yet forgiving them was all worth it even though no friendship has survived the demise of the cult.
This is just empty grandstanding from this NXIVM pedophile-supporting moron, that Frank is foolishly aiding and abetting.
How do we know this? Because Vicente is on Twitter and IG and idiot Eddie could have simply tweeted this to Vicente or posted this on Vicente’s IG.
Oh but then idiotic Eddie wouldn’t have his faux overture spread and inhaled like the other manure Frank is helping his NXIVM 5 pals shovel onto his less than discerning readers.
[redacted] Still enchanted by Raniere’s deceptions. Raniere, fuckwit, numbnuts. Asunsolo, work in progress. Enjoy the chaos. This is only gonna hurt a little.
I wonder how Bonnie would feel about this reunion? Based on his past horrible judgement and mistakes that’s the first question Mark should ask himself about anything, ” how will this effect Bonnie”?
And then ask Bonnie herself. Then get down on his hands and knees and thank God for Bonnie . And then repeat. For the rest of his life. I think we all know who’s got the better instincts and judgement out of those two.
Eduardo, if I wanted to simply try and make peace with an old friend, I would choose to do it privately, and quietly. There are many avenues you could have chosen. Why ‘broadcast’ your good intentions? This will only arouse suspicion of your true motives. What is your true aim? Paint yourself as a normal, nice and magnanimous guy? (Why the need?). Make MV appear as the bad guy if he doesn’t respond? ‘Love bombing’ him in the hope of ‘converting’ him back? Put it on public record that you (and, therefore, Nxivm-people) don’t hold grudges? Keeping all things KR-related relevant, with endless ‘attention-seeking’? You would have earned so much more of my respect if we had learned that you had reached out quietly. As it is, there are just too many questions about ulterior motives.
My guess: to create a record, since it follows on the heals of Vanguard’s diatribe.
It says in Frank’s article that he reached out privately to no avail.
So wouldn’t you think he’d take the hint and leave the man alone? He should respect another man’s wishes if he doesn’t want to speak to him, not try to force his hand by going public. There’s nothing honourable about that manoeuvre. It’s all a game orchestrated by the puppet master and it’s toxic.
Curious what you think about Catherine Oxenberg being supported by so many when she took to the media and exposed incredibly private and sensitive information about her daughter, India, without her consent, all in the name of saving her. I’ve not once heard anyone question her motives as anything but purely seeking to help her daughter. Why now is writing an open letter viewed as potentially sinister. I do agree, there are other methods, who knows why this one was chosen (Frank or Eduardo, perhaps you can enlighten us?), but noticing how quick people are to assume sinister intent from people who support Keith and give full benefit of the doubt to anyone who is against Keith. Should we not question equally?
Nope, we are not distracted.
The World’s Smartest Child Rapist™ and his true-believer followers are the focus here.
Your time is more productively sent mailing care packages of lube and condoms to “Vanguard.”
Here, let me help with this confusion. Catherine Oxenburg had the support of many [especially on The Frank Report] in her efforts to [successfully] extricate her daughter from a criminal cult that extorted, exploited, starved and branded her.
While you are seeking to exonerate the criminal [only the one?] responsible for the RICO cult enterprise that caused this and so many other families, too, too much pain, grief and confusion.
The false equivalences that you pose endlessly here, are false. Repetition will not make a falsehood true.
A hard lesson, I grant you that, and one which many of us learn either on the naughty-step or with a swift clout upside our heads, at a very young age.
False equivalence. Oxenberg’s aim was to get publicity to help bring down a cult and save her daughter. What is Eduardo trying to do? Get publicity for what, exactly? Do you take ads in the newspapers to advertise the fact that you ‘forgive’ your friend and want to have a dialogue? One is of public interest (Oxenberg), one is a private matter (Eduardo). No possible comparison.
What came out at trial was an organization built on sinister intent. Unfortunately, loyal followers, to some, are thought of as sinister members of a racketeering gang.
Just my opinion.
To Letsgothere: I absolutely fully agree. Good point.
Curious as to what you think of Catherine Oxenberg going on an campaign for months across the country exposing private information about her daughter, India, without her consent, all in the name of protecting and trying to save her. I’ve not once heard anyone question whether Catherine may have had other motives, yet people seem quick to assume people who support Keith are “up to no good” and people who are against him get the benefit of the doubt and a clear hall pass. I do agree, there are other ways to try to make amends and not sure why this one was chosen, but I assume there was a reason (Frank or Eduardo, perhaps you could fill us in?).
Should we not question all people equally and if we are going to give one person the benefit of the doubt, extend that to another?
As I understand it, Eduardo tried to contact Mark but was unable to do so. He then asked me to publish his email online as an open letter.
Frank: Have you considered creating a “Frank Report Match Making Section”? Where people report about other cult members they would like to meet and Frank Report matches people up? It could be to build new friends. But it could also be for new romantic relationships.
I want to mention that after reading your description of the third type of ex-NXIVM, it did make me appreciate Mark much more. It was not simple going public and fighting back. That was what Jileta was missing. He came out publicly but he never fought back. Since he had a position of power, not fighting back was siding with NXIVM, siding with Keith. Jileta had a position where he could have done a lot for victims. He chose not to.
I like this quote:
Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.
– CHARLES PATTERSON
Sometimes bad luck is just bad luck; sometimes the choices we make don’t pan out well; and sometimes dealing with the circumstances of your luck and your choices is just the price of living. It’s like I say about my former relationship with Keith – sociopathic boyfriend, rotten relationship, too bad, so sad, stop whining and get on with it. The choices you make in life don’t always come with warning labels (or sometimes they do – like news reports on questionable individuals – and we choose to ignore them). I get that it is hard to reestablish a reasonable life after associating with a psycho like Raniere, but I also understand people not wanting to participate in that reestablishment. From what I’ve read and seen of SOP, DOS, NXIVM teachings, I wouldn’t want any of those people near me or my family without being very on guard and watching to verify motives.
That said, if I were Vicente, I’d be wondering about Asunsolo’s motives now. If rapprochement is desired, I’d suggest starting via email for a written record and time to actually think it through before responses. It’s tough to recover a relationship of any kind (friendship, romantic, business, whatever) when trust has been lost. And sometimes the answer is to just walk away.
This was a very good response.
I really liked this: “It’s tough to recover a relationship of any kind (friendship, romantic, business, whatever) when trust has been lost.”
Nice writing L.
Agree with you 100%!!!
This is just show tactics. Raniere wants a public record that his supporters reached out to Mark and he didn’t respond so they can make Mark look like the bad guy.
—make Mark look like the bad guy.
No need my friend. India Oxenberg’s special Seduced already accomplished the task.
I agree. I wonder why even the people Mark “saved” are now against him.
To forgive someone, a former friend, who is now opposite requires one to think and act beyond right and wrong and anger — and remember the reasons why they were a friend in the first place.
That courage is what most of us need for a peaceful world.
Mark lives a charmed productive life, commensurate with his entirely moral decision to choose right over wrong or good over evil. There is nothing good for him that could come from a rapprochement with the evil that might have destroyed him, his family and close friends within the organisation. I doubt you are one of those or you wouldn’t need to posture here on the Frank, rather just pick up the phone.
Your lot would have something tremendous to gain- publicity [when will you learn?] But you don’t deserve it.
You are not in the same moral league as Vicente, whose bravery compared with your behaviours, not only redeems him but is likely to bring him closer to being the great film-maker he hopes to be. He’s in the clear. Why, unless he wanted to record the sad world of cult groupies, would he choose the company of Mr. Asunsulo and his coterie’s calibre?
100 percent KR contrived
Wow a truly noble act from Mr. Asunsolo.
Can’t say I would do the same after Mark invited so many innocent, well-meaning people to join NXIVM, filmed them during private events, then created the media horror show and took down all of the companies and a happy community, then used private footage of people without their consent (including innocent babies and children) to make a ton of money while destroying their livelihoods, getting them fired, and irreparably damaging their families.
Not to mention his many lies during the trial.
Eduardo is a better man than I to offer him an open door and even an apology.
I think this is admirable. My dad is a Republican and my mom is a Democrat…they have very different opinions and beliefs. But they have still found a way to work together and develop a loving relationship. I commend Eduardo for looking past differences in belief systems and extending an olive branch. I hope Mark responds.
Eduardo said: “this difference of opinion between us is no longer a barrier to our being in contact.”
It’s really hard to talk sometimes in the heat of the moment, and I think it’s a sign of deep clarity and internal peace to be open to talking to someone with such opposing views.
Asunsolo, 1st you’re gorgeous darling. I look forward to reading your findings about the injustices Raniere has experienced. Maybe by the time its all said and done maybe 5 years from now your buddy will be free again. 120 is excessive when we see exactly what the forced labor and sex trafficking scenarios were. May I ask why Raniere won’t be using Agnifilo?
1stly, being gorgeous is mainly about genetics– not an accomplishment. there have been a number of supposedly good-looking human beings with the ugliest of hearts, e.g., Bonnie and Clyde.
2ndly- are you [redacted] aware that some women went missing, some young girls were raped, and some were branded as a result of this cult? And you say 120 years is excessive?
[redacted] If someone’s proven to be a danger to many others, frankly screw them! 120 years was the best they could give, save for the actually deserved death penalty, which would have at least saved some taxpayers’ dollars. Hopefully, the creep suffers more in jail over the long term than he would have dying quickly, and may he suffer all the pain of his victims by 3fold as the ancient religions would say will happen.
The world’s better off without all rapists. I only wish COVID could target them specifically.
But I’m off to a great start of the new year 🙂 cheers to the judge! I’m about 100% sure his opinion carries more weight than yours, thank goodness. Also be sure to check out Lovely Peaches whose name your username is so reminiscent of. Haha, she’s a Great lady as I’m sure you are too, [redacted] dear old incarcerated little Keith raNierE! & I can’t believe all those dancers shaking their butts in front of the prison didn’t save him!!! WHAT a travesty; D
Are you bored, Peaches?
Is this the real Peaches?
5 is way better than 120
Eduardo, would you tell us honestly how you made the decision to try a rapprochement with Mark? If you made this attempt from your deepest heart to build a bridge with an ex-friend, I commend you and hope you might be able to build a friendship outside of the Nxivm sphere of influence. If on the other hand, this attempt was initiated and suggested by Keith in any way (even if he painted it to you as the right, ethical thing to do), then it is an attempt to keep Mark onside, still ‘hooked’, the usual ‘love bombing’ for ulterior motives. You need to do some soul-searching here: If there is even a 1% possibility that this is not simply about pure friendship, then you are still trying to manipulate others.
Others have also mentioned how unlikely it would be for you to reach out to MV without ‘approval’ from KR. Only you know the truth of your real intentions, and you alone have to live with it. I hope, for your sake, that KR had nothing to do with your decision to reach out.
Don’t do it, Mark! It’s a trap. Ha,ha. Realistically, I think Vanguard told this disciple: You get in season 2 of The Vow! Make friends with Mark. Apologize to Bonnie, but you get in there and make us heard on The Vow 2. Is he reaching out to those without an HBO deal?
Looking for an on-camera interview.
Won’t get “Vanguard” out of the prison and will only make Asunsolo more of a pariah, but it will provide narcissistic supply. Negative attention is better to a narcissist than being ignored.
This is really interesting. It seems Eduardo is not fighting Mark and recognizes a difference in their opinions about Keith. I hope Mark responds and they can begin a dialog. Ultimately I do believe that both sides talking and sharing their experiences would allow for truth to really come out.
I commend Eduardo for his willingness to reach out over differences, to someone he believes has done harm to himself and his friends, and offer forgiveness.
I wondered what happened to the personal lives of those in the group. This story is actually so tremendously sad. Sad, largely, because I do believe most of them lacked the evil intent sufficient enough for the retribution they are experiencing now, and yes, that is sad.
Each on their own was creative, talented and intelligent going into this, and Nxivm can’t take that away from them.
Society, however, never seems to forget a mistake or an error in judgment, and maybe we need to work on that.
Intent is vastly overrated.
Evil is as evil does, enables and defends after the truth is out in the open.
Is this another KR preposterous idea? Maybe they are hoping to join forces with another arch enemy. Intentions have to be questioned when an open letter containing insufficient information is published. There are so many other ways for Eduardo to contact Mark. It’s all so contrived. But if Mark is genuinely ignoring his communication, why doesn’t Eduardo respect another person’s decision?
This is admirable from Eduardo – what you are doing Eduardo takes courage and compassion.
Wouldn’t it be a wonderful world to be able to agree to disagree? We all err and we all are ‘right’ at times, that doesn’t define us. What defines us is our ability to stand by our principles and this article has definitely got me thinking, how do I uphold the highest principle I would like to live by? How do I uphold love?. It is a very profound concept to not agree with someone in a very complex matter and still be able and willing to love them for what they represent to you.
I am sorry, but this sounds like more word salad. What crap!
What defines us is standing by our principles? Hitler stood by his principles– was that the right thing for him to do? Killing millions was his highest principle.
Maybe what defines us is our search for the truth, to be kind to each other, to leave this world better than when we arrived in it; to treat animals with compassion; to be proud of our existence when we meet our maker. AND TO TREAT EACH OTHER AND WOMEN WITH RESPECT.
That’s what defines us.
That’s just your first word salad sentence analyzed. Maybe ill tackle the rest after my second cup of coffee.
—“What defines us is standing by our principles? Hitler stood by his principles– was that the right thing for him to do?”
Good point, FMN. If only Hitler had been a little bit more wishy-washy, the Holocaust might never have happened.
The point, Alison, is that principles are subjective. When basic understanding of good and bad are worn down, it is possible to be rewired with someone else’s principles, even evil ones.
Your message is clear FMN and on point, like many great pieces of reasoning here on the FR.
Attempts at rewiring clearly stated reasonings to shift the meaning abound in the responses of Nxivm sympathizers, but these efforts are gauche implosive, whimpering – It’s sad to see.
Hi FMN, first of all thank you for replying to my comment, I think it’s a good way to start creating dialogue and either agree, disagree or even agree to disagree 😉 ; but for sure we will get to know each other better as assiduous readers of Frank and this case.
Now, in my comment, I am referring to Eduardo; I believe it is a very brave thing to look for forgiveness and reconciliation with someone who shares a difference in opinion and I was just sharing it made me think of my own principles, the ones I act by and the ones I hope I can achieve someday.
I actually share the same principles that you say define us and I hope to achieve them all some day, particularly the one you say ‘to leave this world better than when we arrived in it’ and I believe Eduardo and Mark do too. In the end, I think we all have more in common than we might expect.
Pioneer, ” we” as in you and me, or ” we” as in nexians and non nexians”?
Frank, maybe you can start a new thread on this?
I’m happy to agree to disagree with “Vanguard” while he rots in prison.
I’m happy to agree to disagree with Eduardo while he makes a laughing stock of himself by defending a child-raping cult scam.
“What defines us is our ability to stand by our principles…”
Frank, I like that you outline the different types of people who leave Nxivm.
I think that people who are in power positions, like what Jileta had, have the responsibility to be the type 3: “Third: Finally there are those who leave very publicly and not only proclaim they were victims but who joined the fight in taking on and bringing Raniere down.”
If they are in power and not doing anything to take Raniere down or support victims, they are in fact siding with the oppressor.
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Are facts of any importance/value anymore?
Mark would have to be a dingbat to consider communicating with Eduardo directly. Maybe you could serve as a conduit. Providing the former friends a quasi ‘safe space’ or I dare say a prophylactic impenetrable barrier.
Mr. Parlato, NG has requested you be a prophylactic barrier. 🤔
It was a play on Prophylaxis: meaning a defensive Chess move.
Both words prophylactic and prophylaxis form barriers of sorts.
I’m a chess a player. I like the Vienna Gambit.
The tv hyped Queens Gambit leads to a boring ass game.
Just read my own comment
I’m a nerd with no life…
There’s another thing we agree on…
I wonder what “Vanguard” is up to by engineering this letter.
No way Eduardo would reach out to a sworn enemy of “The World’s Smartest Man™” without express permission from his guru.
An Open Letter to Eduardo:
How did that “letting the judge know he’s being watched” tactic work out?
Have you still got him and the prosecutors under surveillance?
Are they shaking in their boots? Are they about to let your judo idol out of prison?
How are your job prospects looking these days?
How’s your dating life?
Have you secured any first-line slaves for yourself?
Raniere was silent as well and look where it got him, he put on zero defense and didn’t stand up for himself at trial and he earned a 120 year federal prison sentence.
The key is who makes the first move, does the person step out and denounce Raniere and NXIVM or do they do it only after they are accused of being in NXIVM and are therefore labeled a sympathizer? The outcome is quite different, so those who are silent better start talking, although it’s getting rather late in the game for that approach to work any longer.