This is in response to Toni Natalie: Not Who She Says She Is? by Truth Seeker.
I’m all for the truth and I’m all for this stuff coming out about Toni Natalie (part of why I’ve been excited for the book and podcast). But come on, Truth Seeker. You can state facts and even hypothesize about things without blatantly trying to mislead people.
– If you were around at the end of CBI [Consumers’ Buyline] and the aftermath of it, you know Keith Raniere stuck to his story of innocence and he did a great job of making everyone believe he was a victim.
Toni wasn’t involved in high level decisions of CBI and she trusted Keith – as did many others.
Keith said he spent the millions on his legal defense and it was worth it because he never had to admit any wrongdoing. Toni believed him. Many believed him. He was a good liar. Toni fell for his lies. And yes, she fell for his lies so much that she started another business with him. A business that basically bankrupted her.
IMO, what I just typed is a much better way of describing this part of Toni’s life than your way. Your way seems disingenuous because if you really are knowledgeable about this time of Keith’s/Toni’s life, you know this was Keith’s show and Toni was one of his trusting pawns.
A good salesperson and a go-getter, but a blind follower.
– Has anyone ever asked Toni how many nights a week Keith would sleep in her bed? Why would that EVER have come up in conversation? Keith and Toni were presented to everyone as a couple. Heidi just made a comment on this last week and I believe her take over the angle delivered above.
– With ALL the whistleblowing, interviews, and kicking and screaming that Toni has done since she left, you are going to fault her for not going to the media to tell them that Keith had lost money in the commodities market when she knew him? What media outlet would have printed that drivel? How do we know she didn’t spill the juicy beans? Again, the word disingenuous comes to mind.
– As for the patent thing, EVERYONE was happy to see Toni finally screw over her jilted lover. He’d been ruthlessly attacking her for a decade plus. Remember, he sued her into oblivion. He killed her dog. He harassed her continually. He tried to lure her to Mexico to have her raped and murdered. She thinks he murdered her brother. Should she have given him the patent? What exactly was the fraud she should have told AT&T and Microsoft about? Should she have given them the patent instead of trying to sell it to them? In retrospect, sure, she should have taken the $50K.
Disingenuous bullshit when you try to spin this into her being a bad person.
If Toni deserves to be taken down, go for it. But keep the bullshit spin out of it.
[…] Keith Raniere Save Toni Natalie? August 21, 2019 In Defense of Toni Natalie August 21, 2019 Heidi on Toni Natalie, Her Sister Gina and Keith Raniere August 21, 2019 […]
Years ago I was contacted by James Odato of the Times Union asking me to talk with him about my experiences with Keith Raniere. I flipped out since I had walked out on KR years ago and he had been out of my life since then – and I wanted it to STAY that way. I was not comfortable with giving info and recalling myself to KR’s attention – especially since I was not up on all of KR’s history since I had left him. I was given Toni’s contact info, and her willingness to share her experiences and what she knew with me was part of what convinced me to speak with Jim Odato. He didn’t include my name or particulars of my story in his expose since I asked to remain anonymous, but I was able to corroborate some things for him and hopefully make a stronger journalistic case for publishing.
That’s how I know Toni Natale – as someone who was willing to support and reassure me in sharing my story with James Odato so I could support his fact finding. And as someone with whom I have shared much of my story knowing that she has respected my wish for my life to remain private.
I get it that some of you feel Toni’s words/actions have affected you negatively. For me, she has only been a positive influence and mistakes she may have made in her past don’t change that. Hell, we all make mistakes – sometimes huge ones. Obviously I did – I was Raniere’s girlfriend for a time ( one of those hoodwinked monogamous ones – ha ha!). And (horror of horrors) I was even in Amway for a short while.
Did Chet Harding really get fired from his last job for sexual harassment?
Joe O’Hara reported Toni Natalie told him that and two people I’ve talked to this week said she told them the same thing.
So Toni Natalie fights the good fight to put away Keith Raniere for his sexual and other illegal deeds. How does she make it ok to work on a book and podcast deal with someone who is married but gets fired for sexual harassment?
Where does she draw the line on acceptable behavior?
Perhaps Harding was the most moral and ethical person Natalie could find who was willing to work with her.
I don’t think the truth about anyone can be told by any one person.
I understand why you are defending Toni Natalie. It is noble of you.
I will state the same thing to you that I would state to those that attack Toni Natalie and have no direct connection to her….
…..Not all victims are necessarily innocent pious individuals. No one is perfect. We are all flawed individuals….
Nutjob you are fighting for victim, yes, but is the victim deserving of your efforts?
Good question. Not for me to decide. But I will correct things that need it.
This post smacks of either Toni or Chet writing it.
Bahahahahahaha, what a joke.
Toni’s been the master puppeteer for decades but isn’t handling the shoe on the other foot so well.
This guest view begins with “I’m all for the truth and I’m all for this stuff coming out about Toni Natalie (part of why I’ve been excited for the book and podcast). But come on, Truth Seeker. You can state facts and even hypothesize about things without blatantly trying to mislead people.”
It’s worth pointing out this “Guest View” is an obvious attempt at promoting Toni and Chet Hardin’s book. (“I’m so excited for the book!!! The podcast, everything!!!”). Are you Chet Hardin, creating a psuedo-identity as if your a follower of the blog, when in actuality you’ve been trolling the blog to promote your book? If so you are the one blatantly misleading people.
Most notable in your reply is the omission of a defense to Truth-seekers statement “Instead, she (Toni) called Raniere and offered to sell him the patent back to him for One Million Dollars – believing Clare Bronfman would gladly pay this for him so he could walk into the courtroom and shove ownership up AT&T, Microsoft and the Judge’s you know what.”
Toni’s actions are pretty despicable. While everyone else was fighting the good fight, Toni was trying to get a big payout from Clare. No Erin Brokovich, this characterizes Toni’s personality pretty accurately, and it’s a big F.U. to the real victims. As for the rest Chet Hardin, you continually, blatantly, mislead people with your constant statements of “facts” when you’re simply regurgitating what Toni told you and you have little to no first hand knowledge of events.
I’m commenting on things I have first hand knowledge about. That’s why I don’t comment on many of the roundhouses that are flying Toni’s way.
I haven’t spoken to Toni in over 20 years – so if you do the math, I may not actually be Chet. Although, maybe I’m lying about that (Flowers is nodding), and I’ve been commenting on FR for the last 3+ years in anticipation of this priceless free self-promotion I’d be able to snake by unsuspecting FR readers.
Why would you single me out, “nutcase”, when there are plenty of other posters who are not buying your story either?
I kinda wonder who who you really are….a person who was really connected to NXIVM in some way, someone who is pretending to be connected to NXIVM as an excuse to post here, or maybe even Toni Natale herself?
I kinda wonder who you really are not…..
And I kinda wonder why you use the name “Niceguy”…
Also, in this forum full of crazy-ass conspiracies and bullshit, do you really think it is wise to blindly trust and accept everything that is posted here?
“Also, in this forum full of crazy-ass conspiracies and bullshit, do you really think it is wise to blindly trust and accept everything that is posted here”?
Flowers I can not argue with your logic.
I have actually never found Nutjob to lie.
I have found Nutjob to be sane.
Are you really that lacking in self awareness? You have no idea why Nutjob would cite you in his post. You called him a liar and that’s why he did it. You can really dish it, Flowers, can’t you? But you can’t take it when the boomerang comes back to you.
Nutjob did lie in previous posts. I know that as a fact. Nutjob made claims that I had posted lies about Nancy Salzman, and based on these alleged comments, Nutjob thought it was okay to insult me.
The fact is I never wrote any posts at all about Nancy, and Nutjob was just using that lie as an excuse to insult me.
Obviously anyone who pulls shit like that is not very trustworthy.
I’m right here, Flowers. Stop pretending like I’m not in the room.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. But I apologize for the impact that had on you.
You are definitely Chet Hardin. You obviously don’t have first hand knowledge of anything. You are not addressing all the relevant things at the time either. Or you’re mischaracterizing things based on Toni’s revisionist retelling of events that only started a few years ago.
Chet are you really willing to go so low? Have some self respect man.
If you haven’t talked to Toni in 20 years why does your post cover a whole slew of things that happened after 1999? Where did you get that information, the Frank Report? If so why don’t you believe the Frank Report now?
If you were Toni’s friend 20 years ago, and haven’t spoken to her since, what’s your motivation in obsessively trolling the blog regarding any comments about Toni? If you were her friend 20 years ago tell us about your experience at the time? How did you meet Toni, how did you become friends? Keith is in jail and Clare and Nancy about to be. You have nothing to fear. Elaborate and we’ll all reconsider.
Unless you’re Chet Hardin and you’re losing steam, thinking how long can I keep this scam up? Lots of unaddressed issues here Nutjob.
Ok. I’ll call Frank and tell him But why would I tell you, anonymous poster? (feels good to channel my inner Scooter)
Great balance piece, Nut! All-too-true and there’s so much more to boggle the mind and turn the stomach as the secrets of a perverted madman whose hypnotic powers turned movie stars and heiresses into his personal, branded sex slaves are exposed!
Some say she is the original seductive, spiteful vixen who created the monster and feasted on his prey. Or was Toni Natalie the original “Patient Zero” — an innocent victim who fell prey to Vanguard’s evil ways — the first to come under Keith Raniere & Nancy’s Salzman’s sex slave spell?
Stay tuned as Nutjob, Joe O’Hara and FR’s crack investigators help Toni Natalie and Chet Hardin sell volumes of this thrilling ride through “the mind of a madman!”
(Pssst. Who’s got the money shot?)
Nutjob, I’m not sure why you think your version is more believable than other peoples accounts. I’m not convinced by anything you’ve written. Also, I know from.your past comments that you’re a liar, so I wouldn’t trust your word on anything.
You’re the most annoying, whiny commenter on here, Flowers. By far.
Interesting. Can someone please tell me how Toni’s brother was murdered? And what makes Toni think Keith murdered her brother?
Thank you! I assumed Toni thought it was a staged suicide until Frank’s recent article.
He killed himself, I believe. Very sad. Toni believes that Keith convinced or encouraged him to take his own life. He had some money troubles and difficulties with a pizza place he owned. That’s as much as I know.
I am waiting for the “give Nancy Salzman a/ka Prefect a Break” post.
It’s not what you say. It’s what you don’t say.
Here you go.
I don’t put much credibility in any of these stories written by anonymous story-tellers.
Scott nobody puts much credibility in any of your stories.
Again Nobody puts much credibility in any of your stories……
Hey. Let’s ask Nancy! She will confirm! In fact, she will totally back up the story. No. Wait. We will read (again) the skip over story of The Salzman Empire.
Wait. We no longer go there. The Salzmans are contrite. This would be funny if it didn’t end up with so many narcissistic, low info, victims who sort of derserve their comeuppance.