Sylvie Reveals How DOS Recruited Women – and What a Creep Vanguard Is

Sylvie, the first witness called by the prosecution in the case of the U.S. v. Raniere, revealed how she was recruited to become a member of DOS.

The native of England was a member of NXIVM for 13 years – from the time she was 18 until she turned 31.

She quit soon after Frank Report – which was reading at the time – revealed the existence of DOS and the branding of its members with Keith Raniere’s initials.

Sylvie reported that she was “freaked out” when she first read about the brandings – which is understandable – especially since hers was scheduled to take place in just a few days.

During her time with NXIVM, Sylvie rose to the position of Coach with 3 Stripes.


The initial part of her testimony focused on the way in which new recruits were taught all of NXIVM’s rules and rituals.

Then, she went on to describe how she first met Keith – and her impressions of him (He was much shorter than she expected The Vanguard to be – and not nearly as impressive as he had been described to her).

The handsome Vanguard on a rare walk alone in Clifton Park. 

When Sylvie first came to the U.S., she came on a Tourist Visa even though she had, in fact, been hired to work for Clare Bronfman at her horse farm in Duanesburg, NY (They had met through a mutual friend in England).

Clare Bronfman

After her Tourist Visa ran out, Sylvie was able to return on a J-1 Visa that had been arranged for by Clare. That Visa was structured so that she could be trained in horseback riding by Clare.

But when Clare decided to abandon her own riding career, Sylvie was pretty much expected to follow suit.

And so it was that Sylvie moved from England to live with Clare, who “had a room in a house in Clifton Park”. While living with Clare, Sylvie slept on the floor in Clare’s bedroom.

Sylvie returned to England when her J-1 Visa ran out – and eventually started pursuing a career with Goldman Sachs.

At the same time, she also became a dedicated long-distance runner – and joined the Serpentine Running Club in London.

But Clare and Keith wanted Sylvie back in the U.S. – and kept trying to convince her that they could arrange for her to get various types of Visas for her to return (All of the related VISA applications were rejected).

What eventually convinced Sylvie to return to the U.S. was the promise that Keith would take over as her running coach – and prepare her to represent England in the Olympics.

While he was training her, Keith mentioned to her that if the two of them were to ever have a sexual relationship, they would first have to become “really good friends”.

Sylvie indicated, however, that she had no interest in having a sexual relationship with Keith because he was an “authority (figure and an) older man”.

As part of her training regimen, Raniere convinced Sylvie to take the Jness module – where she was first introduced to some of his teachings about the sexual roles of men and women.

“(For) men to be healthy or primitive men, they would have had sex with multiple people and had multiple partners and that was somehow kind of healthier or normal, whereas, women should be loyal to only one man or that’s what’s natural for them and if they go beyond that, it’s more likely to be something spiteful or, in
some way, yes, trying to get back at the man and it’s not the normal thing for them”.

But after taking the Jness module, Sylvie decided that she had taken enough of Raniere’s teachings – and rejected the suggestions of Clare and the now-deceased Pam Cafritz to take the Society Of Protectors modules.

That rejection resulted in Sylvie being required to participate in an Exploration of Meaning (EM) session with Dani Padilla.

Dani Padilla forsook all men and became a slave of Keith Raniere and now sports his initials on her pubic area.

But even with the EM session – and additional threats and cajoling from Clare – Sylvie refused to take the SOP modules the first time they were offered.

Eventually, however, Sylvie was convinced to take the SOP training – which she described as being primarily an exercise in humiliating women.

Throughout this time, Sylvie was still getting training instructions from Keith. Most of these instructions involved Sylvie running for as long as she could at a pace of 12 miles per hour.

But regardless of what results she achieved, every one of Sylvie’s training sessions was adjudged to be a failure by Keith (Sylvie had to submit daily reports to him and Clare).

And the cure for those failures was, of course, more EMs.

Sometimes with Dani Padilla – and other times with Karen Unterreiner, Siobahn Hotaling or Lauren Salzman.

Eventually, Sylvie’s body simply broke down from all the 6 hours of training that she was required to do each day – and she ended up with a massive abscess that required surgery.

Despite her doctor’s orders to the contrary, Sylvie continued to follow Keith’s training schedules even while she was recovering from the abscess surgery.


The one good thing that happened for Sylvie as a result of her association with NXIVM is that she met her future husband there.

Both she and John were working on The Knife, Raniere’s concept for spin-free journalism.

Knowing that such a relationship would need to be sanctioned by Keith, Sylvie went to him to tell him about her plan to marry John – and get her “green card” that way.

Although Raniere gave his permission for the marriage, he also told her she and John must have a platonic relationship for the first two years of the marriage.

He also stroked her arm – and told her that it was too bad she was getting married because she and him “could have had fun together”.

When the wedding took place on July 7th in 2015, Clare was there to remind Sylvie that she wasn’t supposed to have sex with her now-husband for at least 2 years.

Unbelievably, she and John agreed not to do so for the first two years of their marriage.

As a kind of consolation prize, Sylvie was invited to become a member of DOS.

The person who invited her was Monica Duran (It was the revelation of Monica’s last name that led Marc Agnifilo to ask for a mistrial in the case).

Monica Duran 

But, of course, Sylvie first had to provide some “collateral” in order to prove that she was worthy of becoming a member of DOS.

In her case, the collateral turned out to be a letter to her parents in which she admitted she had become a prostitute in the U.S. – and a full-frontal naked picture to go with the letter.

Soon, thereafter, Monica informed Sylvie that she would need to provide additional collateral on a monthly basis – and that each new collateral would need to be stronger than the previous one.

And then – surprise, surprise – Monica gave Sylvie her first assignment.

Which was to seduce Keith Raniere.

In doing so, Monica reminded Sylvie about the collateral she had provided as part of her membership in DOS.

And so, Sylvie set out to seduce Keith.

Which wasn’t very hard to do because Keith provided her with instructions on how to do it.

It started with naked pictures – including some closeup shots of her vagina.

That continued for several months – until her father, with whom she shared an iCloud account, found the photos and asked her about her “medical pictures”.

When she informed Monica and Keith that she would not be sending any more naked pictures, Sylvie was told that her next encounter with Keith would have to be “in person”.

And so it was that the now-married-but-not-having-sex-with-her-husband Sylvie ended up meeting Keith at his house in Clifton Park – probably his sex lair at 8 Hale Court.

And that’s where Keith – after having Sylvie pose for some more naked photos – instructed her to take off her clothes and lie down on her back on his bed.

Saying that she felt she was having an out-of-body experience, Sylvie did as she was told.

“So, I laid back on the bed and he, I guess you’d call it, went down on me.”

Afterward, when she told Keith that despite their sexual encounter, she intended to remain loyal to her husband, John, he replied: “No, your ultimate commitment is to me. I am your grand master”.

In March 2018, Sylvie and her husband, John, decided to move to England. He is still in the process of getting the equivalent of a”green card” to do that.


Tomorrow, we ‘ll have a report on Marc Agnifilo’s cross-examination of Sylvie.

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  • People so desperate to be powerful in society will do anything to gain this power .Even literally trade, lease or sell their soul…

  • That picture of Keith under that couple is so spot on creepy as hell. How in the world would he know if Sylvie and her husband did or didn’t have sex for two years? His big brain radar?? Plus who gives that kind of command? That is some creepy ass control shit.

    • I agree Somebody it’s creepy….
      The one thing I am shocked by is that none of the husbands seemed to ever try and physically assault Raniere or threaten him at the very least verbally.

      • How people chose to allow all this to occur is a mystery? Why would they decide to accept Rainiere’s authority over their own? This sickness here isn’t just Rainiere’s, it pervaded everyone who stuck with Nx and didn’t protest. Collateral or not, common sense dictates to not allow someone to sleep with your new wife while you wait for 2 years!!

        • My thought when I heard about this abstinence was that when Gina was Keith’s paramour and some of us were trying to convert him to the LDS or Mormon church (and Keith pretended to go along to cover his pedo ass, IMO) —
          he and Gina were supposedly following a rule that if a couple slips and has sex before marriage but abstains for a year prior, they can then be forgiven and take temple marriage vows.

          The “Bishop” — highest priesthood holder in the church ward — confers with the couple and decided 2 years for Keith & Gina bc of her age, I think.

          Maybe KAR was playing Bishop in his mixed-up mind. He took some other cues from Brigham Young, too.

  • I’m not sure if this has been brought up before, but everything that was demanded of DOS slaves is very similar to hazing, which in most cases is illegal. I wonder why that can’t be an argument? Is it because DOS isn’t a legal organization (although NXIVM is)? College students who are injured, or worse, killed, during hazing incidents are not the ones that go on trial – it’s the individuals and the organization that are held responsible for the hazing.

    Some people are commenting on Keith’s intelligence. While there is no doubt in my mind that he is far from the smartest person in the world, he is certainly not stupid. It really takes quite a calculating mind to do what he has done all these years. I think his lust and proclivities took over and so he really started to push the envelope and get sloppy and extremely risky. I knew him in the 90’s. I met Keith about a year or so before he started ESP, and for the first year or two of ESP. He was grooming women then and using many of the same strategies to get them to do what he wanted, but it’s slow and calculated. He may seem like a schlub to many, but he does have a way of talking that sounds convincing, especially to the vulnerable. Please don’t throw the victims under the bus. I feel for almost all of them (although not all – I never liked Lauren, and I have never met Clare, but I don’t think I would care too much for her, either), including Allison Mack, because we all started from the same place – a good, kind heart with the desire to do something more important in life.

    • Allison Pimp Mack has a good kind heart which collects blackmail information to coerce women to engage in sex against their will.
      But she always does it for the best of intentions to empower women to find their true selves as concubines and sex slaves.

      • Shadow, most certainly many of Keith’s slaves and higher ups did bad and illegal stuff. But the women didn’t come into the organization with criminal intent or with any expectation that evil doings were in their future. These women were slowly indoctrinated and molded ever so carefully and with deliberate intent by Keith. He knew what he was doing. And wa-la! Years later these women become criminal bitches. So while they must pay the price for any role they played in the NXIVM evil empire, they were not that person when they first got involved in the organization. Keith was able to find the weak and vulnerable ones, the ones that he could manipulate the best, and that’s what he did. In any case, that is why I have empathy for many of his victims, and yes, even Allison Mack. I can have empathy and still want them to pay their dues for the things they did. I count my blessings every day that they weren’t able to get their claws into me as much as they would have liked. Does that make me stronger, smarter, more stubborn than his other long-term female victims? Not necessarily. Part of the reason I didn’t stick around is because I wanted to have one boyfriend, get married, have kids, have all of that, and I knew that was something that wasn’t possible with ESP. When I didn’t go back, I wasn’t in deep enough for them to go after me for any reason (I had the body and the athleticism, but not the pocketbook!), but I also partly felt like a failure because they make you feel like you have to fix yourself, and if you leave or don’t do the work, that you are broken. Anyway, fortunately, I’m not broken. In fact, I’m quite whole, but so many of the NXIVM women are broken – because Keith smashed them to smithereens.

        • I was there in the very early days myself. I get where you’re coming from with people putting their hooks into you and making you feel like there’s something wrong with you for stopping your intensives/EM’s with them.

          Also, remember everyone had free choice no matter how much Nx wanted you to stay there. Everyone had the ability to say “I’ve done all I want to do right now”, “This is not for me”, “Thanks for your concern” or “I’m leaving to pursue my dream”.


          • Sorry you were a man who felt the need to join Nx, but glad you ‘got the hooks out” and left. Unless you had a big fat wallet that Nx wanted to slim down, I think the group efforts to keep the hooks in women were stronger because they were more valuable to KAR.

  • Shadow – I’m hoping you will address the below points and questions that Truthseeker brought up.

    Over the course of the trial, maybe to avoid the upcoming avalanche of people calling you out for incorrect things you’ve typed over the last two years, you could stop it in it’s tracks by methodically making & sharing a list of your incorrect dart throws that you’ve presented to us as facts?

    Another idea, keep a simple chart of which players are 100% satanic criminals and who are 100% victims? We know you don’t believe in Venn diagrams, so this should be easy for you. I’ll help you start – Monica is 100% satan and Sylvie is 100% victim, right?

    • Nutjob,

      Thanks for the laugh at Shadowstates’s expense.

      I am convinced Shadowstate is reincarnated from a Salem Witch trial prosecutor. It all makes sense…..

      Nutjob Shadowstate1958 has written over 150 Allison Mack articles.

      How could he ever create a list like the one you suggest?


      On the positive side Shadowstate has helped the Frankreport with tons of content filler.


      I applaud Shadowstate because his articles get people to the Frankreport and help educate them about Nxivm and cults in general.

      Shadowstate despite having an insane viewpoint of what a 12 year old girl can accomplish and be responsible for…..helps out in his own way.

  • Wasn’t Nicole the actress that Mark Hildreth was having a relationship with and left NXIVM because of because Keith wanted to get into her pants?

    • Mark Hildreth was still with NXIVM in August 2016 at V-Week, 10 months before Frank broke the DOS story. Did he really leave NXIVM because of the cuckery?

    • Nicole left the cult soon after the sexual assault described in the indictment.

      To those who think Nicki Clyne is Nicole, Nicki was still in the cult until it collapsed and ceased operations altogether in 2018.

    • Society and the legal system also tend to be soft on anything seen as white collar crime, and even to have sympathy for the people who perpetrate it – there are often calls not too punish people with reputations and family too harshly, if at all, as we see in the current college admissions fraud and bribery scandal.

      The average bank robbery nets less than $5,000, but the FBI puts a high priority on catching robbers and eventually apprehends nearly all of them, after which the judicial system has a high conviction rate and hands out sentences often spanning decades; and yet those who embezzle or defraud banks of millions, even tens and hundreds of millions, often aren’t even pursued (many institutions are more worried about embarrassment and damage to their reputation), and sentences are typically the sort of token ones we’ve seen so far in the NXIVM case.

      • The justice system is class and race based. Criminals from the lower classes are often perceived as lazy, worthless good for nothings and those who break and bend laws to their favor are seen as smart and entrepreneurial. Trump paid no taxes for how long? A billion dollar tax write-off and many on this site idolize him for his “business acumen”!

  • Fascinating. Good to see someone not taken in too badly and thank goodness for her father. She sounds quite an impressive person – running, possible olympics, riding and Goldman Sachs etc I hope she and her husband can sort out their immigration issues – in the US or UK – it is not easy in either country even to bring in a spouse.

    • “I’ll get you to the Olympics” was part of Keith’s scam. Who knows if Sylvie really was an Olympic hopeful or Keith was just using her hopefulness against her.

      He still had Pam Cafritz thinking she was going to make the Olympics when she was 40.

      He’d find your dream and promise he’d make it happen.

      • In a comment on another topic, a knowledgeable insider in Albany running circles said Sylvia definitely was not a world-class runner.

        It’s pitiful, or cruel, the number of women that Raniere strung along with various impossible dreams – including those who expected to be the one to finally have his baby when the time was right, and either put their lives on hold waiting for the chance or even aborted their pregnancies.

        • That sounds right. Also I see she was 18 when she met him so more likely to be misled than someone older, although even most 18 year olds would want to check the qualifications of their running coach.

        • Frank

          And who is the blame for that? Rainiere or the pride and ego of the aspiring athlete/artist/actor/dancer?

          Hey, I’d like to be a starting NFL quarterback. Would I believe it if Rainiere told me I could be the next Joe Montana or Tom Brady? Only if I were naive, an idiot or my foolish pride got in the way of me seeing reality correctly.

  • Even as we know who KR is this is all so very disturbing, and ti think there are still 6 weeks ahead of detailed monstruosities, he should be put away for life!

    • Or, should stop living in a cocoon. Life is an experiment. The people that stayed in Nx over the long term made an error in judgement of trusting someone they should not have trusted. Rainiere built people’s hopes up but is that a crime? Is there criminal intent in being overly optimistic about what your followers can achieve in life?

      • ‘Is there criminal intent in being overly optimistic about what your followers can achieve in life?’

        It seems you never really left mxivm, DA – Pay attention to the evidence and perhaps read the FR, I think you’ll find none of this present situation including this report would exist if your summation of Raniere’s intention were the case.

  • I’ve been shaking my head and asking WTF for two days now. Its Day two and we have how many more days to go?

    Keith Raniere needs to burn in hell.

  • Thank you, Sylvie, from the bottom of my heart and on behalf, I’m sure, of many victims who have come before you for decades but could not come forward or were shunned, silenced or worse if they dared to.

    I’m awed by your stunning strength, courage and honesty.

    You’re, in fact, an “ideal” American.

    …Would that America lived up to its ideal character as much as you did in that Courtroom and, unfortunately, in bed with your overprivileged “American” captors.

    Gratitude and many blessings to you and your future family with your wonderfully forgiving spouse. ❤️

    • What about the foolishness of her and her husband for agreeing to such a bizarre scheme? How can anyone agree to not have sex with their spouse and allow someone else to intercede?

  • So was KAR a mastermind of a movement that was always rooted in mal intent from the very beginning (root to tip so to speak) or did it start as a self serving business enterprise and then turn criminal over time as he got drunk on his power? I honestly don’t want to give him the intelligence credit of strategically thinking beyond 5yrs in the future when he came up with ESP. I truly don’t think he’s that smart. He had an idea for a company, he sold it in to some folks and then took every opportunity he could to add influence and manipulate all the people around him through that.

    I don’t believe for a minute that what nxvim was when it was exposed was part of his “Grand Master” plan when he started. He’s truly not that smart and we wouldn’t be here today. He got lucky but he’s just a con man that rolled with the punches.

    • CBI was shut down in the mid-1990s for being an illegal pyramid scheme, and by that time Raniere was committing statutory rape, so I think he’s been a criminal all along. ESP seems to have gotten worse over time as those who joined it out of idealism slowly got sucked into justifying crimes – including feeding Raniere’s predilection for young women – as a necessary means to the end of supporting the “mission,” and in the end, even Raniere’s depravity seems to have descended to new lows with what he did in DOS.

      • It is convenient to just blame Rainiere. The problem only starts with Rainiere and it extends to everyone who gave up their freedom, their will and chose to do the wrong thing. In the end “everyone needs to sweep their own side of the street” and live their life in an honest, respectful way.

        I am not on a moral crusade to rid the world of Keith Raniere. Raniere is small potatoes in the big picture but he useful as a metaphor for someone who claims to do the right thing but hurts many people in the process.

  • Thanks as always for the reporting and analysis.

    Village Diane has provided a sort of rough transcript over at Tony Ortega’s Underground Bunker, which has a lot of interesting detail that illuminates the process of recruiting and then gradual implementation of behavioral control.

    One thing that struck me, is that Sylvie testified that she had a prior history of anorexia, which seems to be a common theme in the NXIVM inner circle – Allison Mack said early on in her blog that regulating food provided her something she could control, which is a classic statement of eating disorders. Typical for a predator, Raniere seems to have looked for women who had certain types of personalities with weaknesses that he knew how to exploit, as well as those who fit a certain body type he apparently fetishized.

    While just about anyone is vulnerable to a sophisticated con or even the lure of an unhealthy group, in the case of NXIVM it was probably a particular type of woman that got sucked in. I don’t think it’s clear yet precisely what sort of vulnerabilities Raniere exploited, and how, but I’m hoping that there will be testimony from psychology and cult experts that will explain it for us, ideally with specific knowledge about some of those involved.

      • To some extent, like in Sylvie’s example, they have to make a case for undue influence, since, as the saying goes, no one was holding a gun to her head. That may require a psychological explanation for the jury to understand, particularly since Raniere was using fairly sophisticated modern influence techniques, and a slow and rather subtle approach that fits the analogy of the frog in the pot of water brought to boil; but that need not necessarily be “psycho-babble.”

        Aren’t juries often asked to evaluate state of mind, when it comes to defendants? When that applies to victims, isn’t psychology then applicable?

        From Cornell wex:

        “Undue influence
        In contract law, a defense that can be used by a party to argue against the formation of a binding contract between two parties. The use of undue influence by one party over another puts the free will of one of the parties entering the contract into question, and therefore leads to the contract being unenforceable and voidable by the victim party. To prove undue influence, a party must show that one party to the contract is a person with weaknesses which make him likely to be affected by such persuasion, and that the party exercising the persuasion is someone in a special relationship with the victim that makes the victim especially susceptible to such persuasion.”

    • men who like women who are so skinny they dont look like women is cuz they look more like children hmmmm

  • I saw that Mark Vicente took the stand late this afternoon. Doesn’t sound like it got very far before recess for the day.

  • I was involved in the Albany Running Community for a long time. I watched the now deceased Pam Cafritz humiliate herself when she participated in the Freihofer’s run for women by lining up with the elites and blasting off the start line ahead of them only to be swallowed up by the pack. I and many others also heard her stories of training to be an Olympic miler and her false claims of winning the open Elite division of the 5th Avenue Mile in NYC.

    Keith forcing Sylvie (who actually has more talent in her feet than Pam ever did) to run 12 miles an hour pace which equates to 5 minute miles is beyond comprehension and proves he has no concept of what makes a good coach or how to get humans to reach their potential as a human or athlete for that matter. The women’s world record for the half marathon is currently 64.51 for 13.1 miles. If Sylvie were able to keep 5 minute mile pace up it would equate to almost a world record of 65:33! I don’t think Sylvie even got close to be able to maintain 5 minute mile pace for 5k. I found a Freihofers time for her of 17:58 and a couple in the mid 18’s.

    I honestly think that the depravity that Keith is capable of is far worse than what we are going to hear about from any of his victims.and he needs to be put away for life. Turning “virgin” Camila into a sexual predator herself probably is just scratching the surface. Someone mentioned Keith using a pseudonym of Queef. On the lost remarks of the SID blog it was rumoured Keith used that name when he visited underground sex clubs in the Capital District.

    • I have seen other “coaches” convince runners that show modest to above average talent, like a Sylvie, that they should train for the olympics, and basically hoodwink them into a private coaching monthly payment plan. There are many coaches out there grossly exaggerating and boosting the egos of vulnerable people. It’s really quite startling to see how easy it is to lock on to these type of people. No college background in the sport, the immediate success and having a huge improvement curve because they are new to the sport with no serious training background. 18 minute 5k for female is darn good, but only top 5 on the best local high schools teams. And why use a coach with no experience in the sport.

      How did she expect to get work with Goldman Sachs with no college? Or did she attend? Seems strange she only had the one sexual encounter with Keith over the 13 years, but even if she was more deeply involved with him, I guess why bother admitting that anyway? She’s broken away and just needs to expose the important facts. Hope she finds future success.

    • Thanks for the insider insight about that aspect.

      I’m curious, as I’ve noticed that quite a number of NXians were into competitive sports, do you have a sense of whether an unusually high number of them were competitors?

      The inner circle around Albany seems to have ended up as strangely winnowed group tending towards certain body and personality types, and apparently, as in the case of Sylvie and at least some of the other women, a previous history with, and a propensity for, anorexia. I suspect that the trial, and perhaps some expert testimony, will reveal that the anorexia is just the tip of the iceberg of particular psychological vulnerabilities that Raniere exploited – predators typically select victims who the determine they can best control.

  • I hallucinate! Never in life Clare Bronfman would have benefited from a plea ​​guilt, she is at best as guilty as the tadpole glasses. Shame on US Justice !

  • Raniere’s teachings about the sexual roles of men and women are, unsurprisingly, not original with him.

    They are a perverted version of evolutionary psychology’s theory of parental costs and derive from Darwin’s theory of sexual selection. Simply, female mammals bear the cost of pregnancy and birth and the males do not.

    The fundamental urge to procreate and spread one’s DNA biases men to mate with multiple females because sperm costs little. To a perv like Raniere, this provides a (specious) argument that it’s natural for men to be swingers and natural for women to be monogamous.

    Only a fool would find this argument persuasive, let alone profound, but of course, Raniere was surrounded by willing fools.

    It is not peak wisdom to be a slave to one’s primitive urges; we are not chipmunks in the woods, after all.

    Simple human decency tells us that it’s not okay for men to screw everything in sight, regardless of what our DNA wants. Raniere fancies himself a philosopher; there is actually a specific term in that discipline for this specious argument. It is called the naturalistic fallacy, the argument that whatever is natural is good.

    Raniere was not only a charlatan, he wasn’t even a particularly competent one. How he was able to fool any adult with normal IQ puzzles me.

    • I find it interesting that Raniere was promotin archaic, or religiously and socially conservative and traditional, ideas of gender roles. The inner circle of NXIVM had more functional similarities with fundamentalist groups like the FLDS,

      I think, that like many human behaviors as well as our susceptibilities to psychological mechanisms like cognitive biases (which overlap with logical fallacies), those sexual roles developed when humans lived in hunter-gatherer tribes and had short life spans, and that no longer serve well in modern society, even if for instance that leaves us struggling to maintain more ideal monogamous relationships. I’ve known some people who dabbled in polyamory, and it seemed always to be messy, which I understand is typical; and polygamous communities like the FLDS seem to have a strong tendency to devolve into dysfunction and perversion.

      Raniere obviously had a certain charisma in person; and he was able to winnow a small core of followers susceptible to his sway, out of the tens of thousands of people who did NXIVM’s programs. It’s characteristic of high control groups or cults that their leaders or gurus have a presence and sway that is not necessarily obvious to outside observers, and that they churn through a lot of members in the process of selecting and cultivating a diehard following. I suspect that certain groups in particularly that use suggestive or hypnotic techniques, tend to select for those people who are more easily hypnotized; while it’s well documented that some people are more susceptible to hypnosis than others, I’m not aware of any researching proving that is specifically exploited in some cases.

      • It’s interesting most of the women who joined are of an age and kind where their core values would be the opposite – believing more in equality of men and women so even more of a difficulty for him to make all this work (than say if you were convincing a girl born into the FLDS where women obey men to do all this kind of thing).

      • Pero hay que entender, que la gente que lo seguía esta mas enferma ya que le hacían todo el preámbulo de que Keithe es el gran gurú, y ellas aun con las vejaciones físicas y mentales no se daban cuenta. No se quien este mas dañado” the leader o the followers!! No hay líder sin seguidores!!

  • —Sylvie described SOP as being primarily an exercise in humiliating women—

    I wonder how this “humiliating women” tech would be used on the female partners of SOP members. Would SOP-men like Mark Hildreth apply his humiliating techniques to his Kristin?

  • She could have been asked if she found NXIVM to be positive initially. There may even be texts or emails in discovery material that say that.

    It could have been emphasized that no collateral was released when Sylvie disobeyed her masters order to send Raniere more pornographic selfies. She was free to stop seducing him. So if she continued it was her own free choice.

    She could have been asked if she was compelled in any way to train to the point of injury. So it was her own choice to do that.

    Is Agnifilo just phoning it in ?

    • “So no cross-examination of Sylvie ?”

      The cross examination is today. That wasn’t it for Sylvie and this trial.
      And fyi, when Sylvie begged not to send more pictures b/c her father discovered them, she was told by her master- ok, but then your next encounter must happen in PERSON. And she obeyed. True, she didn’t have to obey, but they didn’t say. Ok, that’s fine, you don’t have to send pictures. Keith just upped the anty. She was not “free to stop seducing him”. Just free to stop sending pictures of her own. But that just led her to Keith’s stink ass sheets and fart filled lair. Read it again.

  • Oh boy! This is getting gloomier than I thought! So John and Sylvie did not have sex for 2 years after being married and this upon KAR’s request. And as a compensatory gift she was invited to DOS where she could get oral sex from KAR. How bizarre of a situation. Mostly because you have all these women that are intertwined to the story. She was invited by Monica to seduce Keith. How did Monica make that OK in her mind to begin with? How does that work? And can all these women ( Ali Mack, Monica, Marianna, Pam etc…and all the rest of us) lose track of is right to that extend? All along while being taught to live IN reality and uphold what is right. This REALLY IS a mind fuck! I feel for Sylvie and honor and admire her courage to be the first witness. Maybe now, people are going to grasp not only the evil of KAR but also spite and awfulness of Clare who “reminded Sylvie on the day of her wedding” NOT to have sex with her husband FOR 2 YEARS!!!!!!

    • ” awfulness of Clare who “reminded Sylvie on the day of her wedding” NOT to have sex with her husband FOR 2 YEARS!!!!!!”

      All of the NXIVM women who enabled Raniere are awful.

      • I think they’re laying out their case very nicely. Bringing in people who you never thought would testify… way lesser characters.

        In time, Camilla, “Nicole” (Nicki), Nancy, Allison…

        The crazier this story unfolds to the jury and the judge, the more the main insular players will seem complicit. Anyone who plead guilty already to…this… will likely see a reflection of that in their sentencing.

      • My partner was the same way. Led to believe that working on the relationship without sex was the way to a stronger relationship – all the while getting them ready for Keith’s ‘healing’ blue energy.

        • –Led to believe that working on the relationship without sex was the way to a stronger relationship

          It is if the idea is implemented sincerely between the two people, not as an underhanded scheme to buy some time to manipulate the woman with flying monkeys to ultimately seduce her away from her partner as VanDouche did.

          The guy is easy to read.

    • Yes, these are sick people, all of them.

      How did people sign up for this and go along with this? How did people live with themselves for promoting and selling this? I don’t get it.

      On the other, is this criminal? Was there an intention to commit a crime? Why did participants continue to go along with this for so long before blowing the whistle on this sick game? Was it because of collateral which induced sexual slavery or forced servitude?

      Perhaps, it was a slow degradation of people’s morals that allowed this to occur? Perhaps, it is not that much different from any human tragedy that occurs where people don’t speak up and defend each other.

      • There is something called Group Think that can happen even among better educated people.
        Groups get together and no one wants to stand out so everyone agrees.
        Anyone who stands out as an individual gets hammered down.
        Thinking for one’s self is punished.

        With NXIVM having so many people with weak wills and low self-esteem, it is easy to see how twisted ideas can come to the forefront.

        the practice of thinking or making decisions as a group in a way that discourages creativity or individual responsibility.
        “there’s always a danger of groupthink when two leaders are so alike”

      • Good questions – though I think it’s clear that at least some of it was blatantly criminal, as co-defendants have pleaded guilty to, though in Raniere’s case some more subtle transgressions are at issue.

        If everyone in Raniere’s inner circle had been under 17 or over 71, I think it would be clearly seen that he selected vulnerable populations susceptible to undue influence by someone with a strong will and asserting a position of authority, and that what he did constituted child abuse or elder abuse. Also, if he’d been a licensed educator or counselor, it would have been professional misconduct, and criminal abuse of a position of authority.

  • Manipulative, creepy, narcissistic? Yes!
    Anti-middle class values? Yes!
    Criminal? No! Sylvie had the option to always say, No!

    • “Sylvie had the option to always say, No!”

      I know of no women who would tolerate a punk like Raniere telling them not to have sex with their husbands or boyfriends.

      • I agree. Who would tolerate this?
        Since they did tolerate it, one must ask why they tolerated it?
        There was an incredible amount of brain rot (loss of a basic moral sense) in the Nxivm community that allowed such violations to occur. A sickness permeated the whole community; one should blame Raniere but one can’t blame just Raniere. The whole group became sick to tolerate this.

        And, the Salzmans likely want to continue to practice as unlicensed coaches/psychotherapists after their prison stint!

        • I know. It’s mind-boggling. But Sylvie was 18 when she got involved with NXIVM through Clare. And now she’s–what, 31..? I think it’s the amount of time she was in it. But it is really hard to understand. And not criminal. I agree. Unless the collateral was what made people do it. Is threatening to release that kind of freely given collateral a crime?

      • The excuse was sex was a limitation, and that working on the relationship without sex would lead to a stronger bond between them. Isn’t that right Monica??

        • Scott, the point is that most normal people would never become members of a cult like NXIVM in the first place.
          How does one explain 400 people trooping up to Silver Bay YMCA to celebrate Raniere’s birthday for a full week in 2016 to sing of His glory?
          Raniere’s birthday party should have fitted around a half empty table at an IHOP.

          The people who joined NXIVM were to some degree broken in the first place and I’m talking about the True Believers, not the people who took an over priced ESP course.

          • You still didn’t address the point that telling someone not to have sex is not a crime. You are really good at deflecting, but I’ll catch you every single time. I have a lot of experience with that, there’s a guy named David Steadson who used to do that to me all of the time with Amway.

            There were multiple subsets within the layers of NXIVM. Only a small handful have the horror stories to tell. The other 17,000 (and many more who never took a class) were filtered out for the handful to remain. Even most of those of the 400 at the birthday celebration were not aware of what was going on behind the scenes. That’s why the 2017 attendance was much smaller than 2016.

    • That seemed to me the weakness in the prosecution’s case. However, Sylvie’s testimony made clear that she gave the so-called collateral BEFORE she was told to seduce Raniere. Thus, she was blackmailed into having sex with him. This fits the legal definition of racketeering.

      This is how the racket worked. Women gave up compromising material under false pretenses in the context of a women’s only group. They were then told they had to provide sex. Of course, they could have defied their blackmailers. Just as the victims of a protection racket are “free” to defy the mafia goons “requesting” payoffs.

      The government’s case is solid.

  • “Sometimes with Dani Padilla – and other times with Karen Unterreiner, Siobahn Hotaling or Lauren Salzman.”
    “As a kind of consolation prize, Sylvie was invited to become a member of DOS.
    The person who invited her was Monica Duran”

    So these four women together with Monica Duran are pimps.
    They were grooming Sylvie to be a sex slave.
    And of these five women only Salzman was indicted.

    AUSA Moira Penza stated that almost half of the top members of NXIVM in Clifton Park are criminals.

    • So, will the Clifton Park crowd like Dawn Morrison and others be charged by NDNY? Or, will they walk away as “cooperating witnesses”?

    • Weren’t you fully convinced it was Alison who performed oral sex? So to clarify are you still fully convinced that Pea is Nicki Cline?

      It’s going to be a bit upsetting that all the fantasies you’ve built up and wrote about over the last year are just the fantasies of an obsessed man…

      And again…How many pictures of Alison have you on your computer?

      • Allison’s initial indictment as CC#1 has her transporting the victim up to Clifton Park and blindfolding the victim..
        Moreover the woman who performed the oral sex on the victim was Allison’s slave.
        Hence Allison Mack is a co-conspirator in the sexual assault of the victim.

        • camila was a direct slave of KAR, and stop lying is this Frank has not published anything that says camila was allison’s slave.

        • I advise you to stop with the BS…At this point, it’s trial time and what you do is DEFAMATION PER SE.

          First of, the first indictment never said that! It said that she convinced her to live in Clifton.
          Second, she never was said to have blindfolded the victim.

          The person who performed sex was a FIRST LINE like Allison. The victim is Allison’s slave, that is how far it goes!

          Keep trying to pretend she was the leader being everything but the Truth is

          She is not the leader and had NO POWER…She was as much as the victim coerced to follow order!
          Like it or not.

          She is definately not the Creator of DOS nor the branding(like you usually pretend), it was clearly said AGAIN…

          She is not a co anything of the sexual assault !
          She was never said to be, never charged and this is utter BS you keep making.

          I’d like to remind that most of the BS you kept saying about Allison is showing to be false and we are barely the first few days!

          And continue with your discriminating lies, and I’ll make sure the right person hear about this.

          You will be then guilty of defamation and accusing of criminal behavior (like you do) without proof is a serious crime that could put even send you in jail (depending the seriousness of the accusation)

          Seeing how you keep blowing fake info and lies against Allison for WAY too long, you would probably get some time.

          BTW, before you go with “constitutional right” like Freedom of speech or press…there is a CLEAR LIMIT !
          Even for a slow minded moron like you!

          • I think this may be Sultan of Six….. or as I like to think of him….
            KKK ( Kristin Kreuk Kidnaper).

            KKK don’t you have a Comic Con to go to?

          • Scott :
            You talk without knowing…The defamation per se doesn’t need to be proved by the victim of it.
            Read the law! It’s when a 1 digit IQ moron accuse without proof someone with a serious crime.

            In this clear case (it’s the case here ,Shadowslow is accusing here of sexual assault and that’s a serious accusation base on NOTHING) , i just have to show what he say and the case is done.
            Allison Don’t have to defend herself at all! that’s the beauty of defamation per se.

            As for “Mack did a great job of defaming herself, she even claimed the cauterizing was her idea. LOL”

            What does that have to do with anything i said ?
            First of , the authorities (contrary to some moron who can’t read the interview that was clearly stated as FORCED by the interviewer) know it’s not true!
            The first days they clearly said that:
            Dos is Raniere’s idea
            Dos leader is not Allison (it’s Raniere and Mrs Raniere (i think it’s Camilla))
            The branding is Raniere’s idea at 100%
            They talked about a video where he is talking about the ceremony and they said (prosecution) that they have message where he talk about how they should have the branding.

            Even the Initial that some attribute to Allison are not recognized by authorities …especially now that Monica as said that her initial was part of the branding.

            At this point, everything said in the interview is proved to be untrue and confirm the suspicion of those clever enough to READ it properly.
            It was a set up against Allison, A way to make her fall but it failed as the proof goes the other way.

            But still, it has Nothing to do with what shadow did here! You start to sound stupid again.
            Why Don’t you stop posting sometime because you have great insight most of time.
            But when you try to play the smartass (and fail) , you discredit yourself.



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