Heidi Hutchinson

Heidi Hutchinson – on Pam, Barb, Nancy and the monster Keith Raniere

Combing through the thousand comments Frank Report gets weekly, I find that Heidi Hutchinson’s comments are always filled with good insights that inform readers and myself. For those who are interested in understanding how NXIVM became such a beastly group – even while peopled by some nice and decent folks – Heidi’s insights are invaluable. Keep in mind she knew Keith since he was in his early twenties, saw him during his Consumers’ Buyline days and into his transition into NXIVM and becoming the Vanguard. She is one of our few living witnesses who knew him during these three distinct periods of his life. 

While most readers will get it – a few may not necessarily realize that Heidi often employs sarcasm to sharpen her points. So for the better comprehension of some readers, who might otherwise take it as literal, I will label the sarcasm to distinguish it from Heidi’s other remarkable insights. 

By Heidi Hutchinson

God or Satan can do what they want with poor Barb and Pam. I doubt if Pam Cafrtiz’s and Barbara Jeske’s lives would have been so wickedly meaningless or short had they never known Keith Raniere, Nancy Salzman or Clare Bronfman – but their eternal fate is not our hands.

Keith and Nancy AKA Vanguard and Prefect –  Sketch by MK10ART.

***

[Sarcasm] The only entities on earth who know what eternal karma Barbara Jeske and Pamela Cafritz had to atone for in past lives, and earned in their future ones, through their service to Vanguard and Prefect, are Keith and Nancy.

Barbara Jeske and Pamela Cafritz

[Sarcasm] Barbara Jeske and Pamela Cafritz have likely preserved their souls on Earth to enter the nubile bodies of the branded slaves through the mark of transference — the branding scars the slaves bear — during sex with Vanguard. And if they do so at the right, precise moment of conception, Barb and Pam might even be reborn as Avatar babies!

***

Check out this link: http://smallville.wikia.com/wiki/Isobel_Thoreau

 

“They’ve taken the book and with it our powers.” —Isobel {Played by Kristin Kreuk] to her coven, before being burned

I was attempting a bit of sarcasm [above] but I do believe, based on what facts I know, that, yes, Keith convinced some of his followers that there was a mode of transference of the soul — a way to transcend death — through bodily markings.

Don’t know if it was already in the Zeitgeist, or if they swiped the mark of transference straight off Kristin Kruek’s Lana Lang’s Smallville back, but it looks an awful lot like the DOS “Society of Protectors” seal emblem.

The Emblem of the Society of Protectors.

All sounds a lot like what I believe happened to these prematurely dead, missing and grave-robbed women.

There is no doubt in my mind that their cancers went untreated so that the assets held in their names could be accessed and used as they ARE and WERE being used.

Evidently, Keith Raniere used Pam Cafritz’s money to flee to Mexico.

Pam funded the escape to Mexico for Raniere; Barb’s funding the local home hide-out for Nancy.

Barbara Jeske gave her short life to Keith Raniere. She willed to him all her assets including this house wherereportedly Nancy Salzman is reportedly now residing.

Hope the young slaves are taking note of what’s become of their predecessors.

(And it’s not some dream realm where they’re integrated and astral project into human scar portals such as Michelle Salzman portrays in her etchings or you may have been told.

These badass bitches are DEAD young or living in terror, some.)

***

Pam Cafritz was a sort of “peasant” according to Keith. Albeit a Nazi peasant; a low-ranking party member. She was very attractive in her youth and Keith always dimmed her down to keep the others from getting too jealous.

***

Good to see Frank open up about his personal experiences with certain NXIANS and admit those weren’t always all that bad. Nor were many of the NXIANS themselves bad to begin with until Vanguard messed with their minds and beliefs.

I, frankly, enjoyed all the ESP (and the double entendre with Extra Sensory Perception and Executive Success Programs was intended by Keith), new-age mysticism hocus pocus — past life regressions and astral projections — with my sister Gina and her BFF Kristin Keefe. (Not so much when Raniere was around — I always thought he had rape at heart and so made it a point never to be caught alone with him after a few attempts on his part.)

Even went with them a time or two to monasteries and ashrams for the vibes. Read Tarot cards, had some flying dreams I fancied may have been out of body experiences, etc.

But, like everything, Keith corrupted and twisted such innocent, girlish flights of fancy into a sordid, self-serving, grim reality.

The past life “disintegrations” were Keith’s unique, sinister twist on karma atonement. Not only did the slaves have to work off the bad, past life karma by serving Keith however he deemed necessary, but if they ever failed him in his Vanguard mission as Earth’s only integrated being in this life, they would surely “disintegrate” and become one of the most despised characters in human history such as Adolf Hitler.

Past lives work well as a guilt, fear or manipulation tool in part due to versatility — Keith could assign more than one past life to anyone and add his own past life or add one to another NXIAN’s to juxtapose/manipulate their relationships.

Frank may have been a Cambodian King for this mystery Lady but had he been permitted to stay around long enough there are plenty unclaimed Nazi tormentors Frank could have been accused of being the moment he disobeyed Keith.

***

Moira Penza is obviously so astronomically far ahead of the game on NXIVM it’s not even comprehensible that a person stupid enough to write this post can type or speak. It’s scary you’re loose on the streets.

Nancy’s the “goose that laid the Golden Egg”?  Wrong!  Nancy’s a worthless crook caught red-handed, pleading for clemency in exchange for information the prosecution already has a hundred times over! She’s pathetic.

More like Freddie Geas will soon be laying goose eggs on all your disintegrated Nazi heads.

***

Though my sister was unfortunately far more involved, I was also there when ESP was under development for years prior to becoming incorporated. (Though I’m tempted to joke and say I have ESP, that’s how I know. 😆.).

“She who has the most Joys wins,” was my slogan, stolen by Keith Raniere.

It’s a combination of “Man is that he might have Joy,” from the Bible, and an old bumper sticker — “He who dies with the most toys wins.”

Finally, I don’t pretend to know more than anyone, no matter what their role was in ESP/NXIVM/etc. I hope to encourage those who do know far more than I to share.

“He who has the most joy, wins,” says Keith Raniere.





About the author

Frank Parlato

Frank Parlato is the founder of the FrankReport, publisher and editor-in-chief of Artvoice, The Niagara Falls Reporter, Front Page and the South Buffalo News.

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  • @ Rebuttals — If you’re finished rebutting, your entire rant is asinine. Full of lies and contradictions against the well known facts.

    Most glaringly, your premise that I believe Keith et al “killed” Pam
    and Barbara because of money is FALSE. I never stated or “implied” that.

    In fact, I believe there were MANY motives for letting these devoted, humble servants of your pedophile Satanic sex slavers die prematurely.

    Silencing them permanently was probably chief among those, IMO.

    [Keith and Nancy, in particular, DID and continue to DERIVE a financial benefit from these deaths, however. If they didn’t use Pam’s money why is Clare charged with robbing her grave? If they didn’t need Barb’s deathbed and House, why is Nancy living in it?]

    Just as YOU are desperately trying to silence me with this illogical rebuttal to an argument that was never made — full of misogynistic insults against not only me but the brilliant head prosecutor of the DOJ’s case and the mother who has ALL the info they’ll ever need to put Keith, Nancy, Lauren, Allison, Clare, ET AL behind bars where they all belong for a long, long time.

    Without Nancy’s pathetic plea.

    Please do tell us, what do you care if Nancy pleas or no?

    Like Pam and Barbara and, according to your albeit obviously misogynistic views, all females with wrinkles or beyond the age of our child bearing years Nancy’s worthless, anyway. Right?

    I bet you have 10 years on me but maybe since you’re apparently male you can “logically” tell us better why Keith ET AL let Pam and Barb suffer painful deaths without timely medical intervention?

    Maybe they WERE merely deceived into believing Keith could cure them by “faith” and some Mexican concoction he researched that would have worked but shipped too late?

    If it makes you feel better about yourself.

  • Duly noted rebuttal 1, 2 and 3. Sounds like you’re pretty close to Nancy’s side of the house. Like maybe a daughter or son-in-law? That’s at least a logical conclusion right?

      • Are you saying the “rebutter” is BEN MYERS?!

        Ben, speak up Man, is that you? Say, sorry about not getting those nude pics you wanted so badly to Kevin Beals. I didn’t mean to be so rude to India’s Nx friends spooking us around Malibu either and I feel just terrible about what Frank said to the Mexican dudes who threatened to kill me if I didn’t stop him. How did you manage to get those texts put through my nieces’ Clifton Park number? Big mistake threatening her, though. Her parents are very catholic about that sort of thing.

        I hear the FBI has a few other, lots of questions for you. My ex let them know how impressed he too is with your hacking skills. Your Mexican thugs, not so much.

        Also, Ben, have you tried Minoxidil? There’s also a laser hair loss treatment.

      • Somehow, it doesn’t seem logical to me that Ben Myers would write those posts about Nancy, and talk about how she is a criminal who was involved in all these illegal activities.

        Does it make sense for her family to say that?

        • That’s logical too – it was just a guess. The anger/frustration with Moira playing “chicken” with a plea deal seemed authentic and out of concern for Nancy and/or Lauren getting substantial time. And there also seems to be some subtle (emphasis on subtle) acknowledgement that Nancy’s situation wasn’t all roses from her point of view. So while there is an opportunity for the Salzmans to finally get the KAR monkey off their backs by telling all – there is legal penance that needs to be paid. That anger/frustration layered on top of the reality of the situation makes the most sense coming from a family member. Oh – and this person fully called Nancy “Prefect” as if that was her given name.

          Does Lauren and Michelle call Nancy “Mom” or “Prefect”? I truly don’t know but it might make more sense coming from a son-in-law who was an active nxian for several years before officially becoming a family member.

          Also- this is just an explanation of my thinking around that guess. It by no means is meant to be a POV on Rebuttal 1,2,3/Heidi’s comments. Those two are discussing things outside of my realm of knowledge.

        • Your instincts have become pretty good these days, Flowers.

          While others ignore basic logic and common sense, you usually embrace it.

          I still remember the laughable days when Heidi and JustSayin kept repeatedly saying that you and Scooter Johnson were the same person — even though it made no logical sense and defied all common sense. 🙂

          Yet in the end they wound up with egg on their face — when Frank confirmed the obvious truth about IP addresses.

          Not everybody here is totally logical.

          Kinda like how Heidi and her followers scream about being attacked by people like me, yet just a few weeks ago Heidi kept attacking you for no reason.

          Well anyway… It’s definitely not Ben Myers, you were correct about that. 🙂

          You were also correct that it’s not logical for anybody in her family to say certain things. 🙂

          2 for 2. Good critical thinking.

          • Whoever you are, great to see you are pleased with the great job Flowers, does to protect you:) she does you NXIUM patsies proud here for sure;)

        • NXIVM is a manipulative organization. Its people will use partial truths mixed in with outright lies or lies by omission to further the mission. Thus, it would not be surprising in the least to make such a post seem somewhat contradictory while the main agenda is obvious. In other words, give it the appearance that it is said by someone with no relation to Nancy/Lauren by vilifying them – insincerely of course – for a greater end result: a get out of jail free card. Nancy/Lauren are guilty as hell. Everyone knows this. There is no point in saying they are innocent and then urging the DA to give them a plea deal because innocent people don’t need plea deals.

          • I still dont buy it. There is never going to be a “get out of jail free” card for anyone here…and NXIVM members must know this (except, apparently for Pea Onyu)…
            Rumor has it she’s still hoping for a ‘Pea deal”
            😂

            Rebuttal guy- I’ve always been logical (but I haven’t always been right, lol)

            But when it comes to dealing with sociopaths and criminals, it can be difficult to understand their motives, so sometimes their actions can defy OUR logic.

  • For those too dumb to understand my last post (3 of 3)…

    When I said the word “kill” — I was referring to Heidi’s constant ‘suggestions’ that Keith purposely let Barb and Pam go without cancer treatment until they died BECAUSE he somehow would benefit financially when they died.

    Or in other words, I was referring to Heidi’s ludicrous idea that Keith purposely wanted both Barb and Pam to die from cancer just to take over their assets.

    The idea that Keith benefited financially from Pam or Barb dying is laughable. He would have benefited more if they lived because he spent years training those robots and had their full loyalty.

    He would NOT want them dead just to take over their assets. Training new robots to be that loyal would cost far more (in time investment) than the small sum NXIVM acquired from their death, especially since Pam’s $8 million account already belonged to Keith even when she was alive — since Pam gave him anything he wanted without hesitation.

    And Clare financed Mexico, not Pam.

    Heidi is simply an idiot for suggesting these things. 🙂

    And yes, Heidi has implied this same idea over and over again in various posts. 🙂

  • (POST 3 of 3)

    3) Heidi has “implied” that Keith purposely let Pam and Barb die just to take over their assets, LOL.

    Sorry Frank, but if you won’t speak up here then I will…

    Firstly, Keith has Clare financing everything and if Keith honestly needed a low valued home like the one Barb was living in, he didn’t need to kill her for that kind of LOW VALUED home. LOL.

    Clare had already given Keith over $100 Million dollars and he lost much of it and/or used it up in legal fees —- so to suggest that Keith needed Barb’s shitty little home for Nancy (and killed her just to get control of that home) is such a laughable statement that I can’t believe Heidi would say it.

    Heidi is now off her rocker and talking crazy. LOL.

    To suggest that Keith needed Barb to die just to take control of her low valued home is akin to suggesting that rain travels up instead of down. It’s so ludicrous that only a FOOL would suggest it.

    What about Cafritz?

    As for Heidi’s suggestion that Keith needed Pam to die in order to finance his Mexico get-a-away — that’s even more laughable since it was CLARE who financed Keith’s get-away, not Pam.

    Keith never raided Pam’s trust to reimburse Clare for any expenses related to the Mexico get-away. He never took out money from Pam’s trust to pay for that get-away period. Duh. 🙂

    Keith only raided Pam’s trust to reimburse Clare for lower level expenses like going to the chiropractor or buying other small priced items.

    Keith didn’t need Pam to die for those expenses BECAUSE Pam was already donating her money to Keith whenever he asked for it anyway.

    Pam was his most obedient robot. Pam already gave him whatever money he wanted and drove him around town whenever he wanted.

    Why would Keith want to lose his most obedient robot who already gave him everything she had while she was alive?

    In fact, Pam’s death made it more DIFFICULT for Keith to take money from her account — for fear of being caught, which is exactly what happened, LOL.

    If Pam had lived then Keith could have simply continued to ask Pam for money whenever he wanted and she could have legally withdrawn it using her own name — all without Keith having to risk having the IRS see his fingerprints on any transactions.

    So Pam’s death most certainly was NOT something that benefited Keith financially.

    Keith already owned Pam’s soul and had access to her fortune while she was alive, simply by asking her for money.

    Thus Heidi has proven she’s clueless about this stuff.

    Duh Heidi. The more you talk, the dumber you sound.

    No go play with your grandkids old lady.

    Your wrinkles in that photo make you look at least 50-55 and I’m sure the photo was taken years ago. LOL.

    Father time catches up with everybody Heidi. 🙂

    • Heidi also claims Keith tried to rape her multiple times, but she never reported this to police apparently. She didn’t do anything to stop her sister from staying involved with a suspected rapist? Doesn’t really make sense, does it?

      • I’m sure Heidi (and I) have better things to do than expend any labor answering these questions. So I’ll suggest you run a query for #whywomendontreport on Twitter for insight.

  • (POST 2 of 3)

    2) Heidi claims that Penza is ahead of the game with NXIVM.

    You’re forgetting that Moira already failed to get Allison’s cooperation even though she wanted it and agreed to home detention (on the belief she’d get Mack’s cooperation, LOL).

    Yes, Allison likely played her for a fool but even if that’s true, Penza is behind in the game to allow herself to get played like that. LOL.

    Moira FAILED in that quest.

    Then came Nancy.

    Penza announced to the court that a plea deal was likely — just like with Allison — but then she FAILED again to get that cooperation precisely because she’s likely playing ‘chicken’ with Nancy to see if she’ll blink or swerve first.

    Nancy has not blinked or swerved first.

    Moira is afraid to lose face by giving in.

    But if she doesn’t give Nancy what she wants, she’ll lose the most valuable testimony proving Keith’s and Allison’s INTENT behind every crime they did, including Lauren’s testimony about the inside matters regarding DOS.

    Intent is important and having a high level person like Nancy who was privy to Keith’s intent behind many actions is crucial, even if the prosecution already has other witnesses. No other witnesses were as high as Prefect, not even the ‘secret’ witness that Frank keeps talking about who I already know is Keeffe.

    Keeffe was a high level fuck buddy and a high level person in harassing people and doing dirty deeds, but she was TOO DUMB to be placed in a high “business” position in order to run NXIVM’s daily operations like Nancy was.

    Keeffe was not Prefect. Duh.

    Keeffe is not a smart business woman. She’s a dumb fuck buddy who was a ROBOT just like Pam Cafritz and Barb Jeske. Keeffe is a shit for brains dummy. Nancy is a better witness.

    If this weren’t true then Penza would have fed Nancy to the wolves and never entered plea negotiations with her, you fucken retard — since Nancy is too high up.

    Nancy is not some low level fish to take Penza up the food chain slowly. Nancy is the “right hand of God” at NXIVM — thus if Penza is talking to her, it means she NEEDS her testimony to make the case a slam dunk against Keith. Otherwise she’d want Nancy to do the maximum jail time possible for her high level position. Duh.

    Yes, Moira will likely give in.

    She’ll likely give Nancy and Lauren no jail time or just a token 6 month sentence at a minimum security work camp without bars.

    Mark my words. You’ll be eating crow and kissing my butt soon enough, which seems fitting since you spent twenty years of your life kissing Keith’s ass before finally breaking away.

  • (POST 1 of 3)

    I appreciate Heidi’s comments, but unfortunately, these have fallen short of being logical.

    I will point them out, one by one, in 3 different posts.

    1) Heidi claims that Nancy is not the golden goose (of information) but just a ‘worthless crook’ and thus a ‘worthless witness’ for the prosecution.

    This claim is so illogical that it defies common sense.

    Nancy was PREFECT of NXIVM, LOL.

    She was Keith’s RIGHT HAND in all business matters for NXIVM going back many years.

    She was privy to private conversations about everything.

    She knows what the $500k cash was used for and how it was gotten.

    She knows about the forced labor and the illegal movement of people from Mexico. She has all the details and can testify to that.

    Very few other people will have the “full” details of everything at NXIVM.

    Nancy also put her official name onto assets and shell companies for Keith in order to do Keith’s bidding without him having to put his name onto assets officially. She can testify to this “intent” of Keith (and “intent” is part of proving a crime). Intent can also be inferred without direct testimony of course, but the case is much stronger when the “right hand” of Keith is telling the jurors about their secret conversations where Keith told her to do certain things to keep him off of IRS records.

    Nancy was also privy to Keith’s tax evasion tactics and can testify to his “intent” to defraud tax authorities in a number of ways — and can likely offer up more indictments of Keith which the government doesn’t yet have.

    Nancy was privy to all of the high level crimes being committed by Keith. She was Prefect. She was his “right hand” for many years, in terms of running NXIVM’s scams.

    Plus her daughter Lauren was also privy to high level DOS matters where “intent” is going to be a key issue at trial (proving Keith’s intent behind certain DOS actions will be necessary).

    Nancy is in a position to know where all of the figurative bodies are buried. She also knows about Clare’s actions and can support the other government witnesses who will be attacked by Keith’s and Clare’s attorneys (giving them extra corroboration, and sealing their fate).

    Nancy and Lauren are the two most important witnesses. LOL.

    Try using your brain next time before embarrassing yourself and making dumb statements.

    Nancy and Lauren make the case against EVERYBODY much, much stronger which is precisely why Moira Penza is negotiating with them, you brainless twit. LOL.

    …and Moira will give in and give Nancy no jail time, mark my words.

    Then you can come back here, eat crow, then kiss my ass. 🙂

  • Very much appreciate your intelligence and sensibility Heidi, to come through your experience with nxivm with your humanity, and your sense of humour intact, shows strength of character. wish you would write some editorial.

  • Those attacking Heidi say they have never had anything to do with NXIVM outside of reading this website.

    Heidi, you are truly appreciated. I hope you are able to ignore the nonsense of the small-minded, and clearly mentally ill people who stalk you in the comments.

  • “Keith convinced some of his followers that there was a mode of transference of the soul — a way to transcend death — through bodily markings.”

    In other words Keith Raniere was on the verge of transforming NXIVM into a religion.

    The parallels to Mormonism are striking.
    Joseph Smith, the Mormon Prophet started out as an Upstate New York con artist swindling farmers with tales of buried Indian gold.
    He ended up with a polygamist religion teaching that men can become Gods in he after life.

    “As man now is, God once was. As God now is, man may become.”
    Joseph Smith in the King Follett discourse.

    • Yes, the situation has many parallels in history, if people would only pay attention and look. I think the parallels to Jim Jones are striking as well, for reasons I’ve stated before.

      KAR is too unremarkable to invent anything original.

    • Yes, we were reared Mormon, Gina and I. We discussed a lot of that with Keith who seemed intent on “reprogramming” Gina to a belief system that better served his interests while at the same time basically stealing whatever seemed to Keith to work best from Mormonism and other cults or religions.

      But I was referring to something else from “Smallville” called a “mark of transference” that embedded Kruek had on her body (back) that a dead character, also played by Kruek, used to come back to life by possess the marked body. I may repost with a better pic or do a post on it or you are welcome to I suppose.

  • “Man is that he might have Joy,” is NOT from the Bible. It is from kooky Mormon teaching.

    Also, there is a 4th segment of Raniere that Heidi claims to know, his time in Amway. However, the above article proves she is not a reliable source. Plus, she jokes about her sister, who committed suicide, can’t stay married, and hung around NXIVM while doing very little to expose it. Not exactly the winning combination I’m looking for to take down the multi-100s of billions/year MLM scam industry. There are skeletons gushing out of all of Heidi’s closets.

    • Scott – She is doing something NOW. Why do you feel the need to attack? I find her insight interesting and am glad she shares.

      Weird to me that you incessantly attack (even sometimes inhumanly attack) Heidi, Joe, Toni (of all people), and Omar. Sure I’m not alone in thinking that more of them and less of the Shadow, Scott, Flowers, shitshow is a good thing. And yes, I understand all of Heidi’s, Joe’s, Toni’s, and Omar’s life failures/shortcomings. You’ve made those points abundantly clear to us all.

      • There is a difference between sarcasm and mean-spirited jokes.

        Nutjob, you’ve continually been rude to me, but you still can’t explain why. You, like Heidi, started attacking me before I ever posted a single word to you or about you. You can go back and check all my posts if you want…you’ll see that’s true.

        You’re trying to make it sound like this blog is a place for exNXIVM members to post, but it’s not. You can go back and look at the old comments and see how few comments were posted here prior to April.
        Interesting to note that Scott started to post here April 21st, on a thread dated April 20th, and Shadowstate started to post the following day, on April 22nd. I see that FormerNexian and Sultan also started to post around April. I have been posting here this Fall 2017, and I never had any issues with mean comments directed at me until May or June.

      • Heidi is doing diddly-squat now. NXIVM is essentially over, Frank told me that the first time we talked several months ago, shortly after Raniere was arrested. She is behaving like a court jester, a circus clown. She is adding a few titillating side-show stories. She had a chance to relate her Amway knowledge and blew it. She could have helped literally millions of people not get scammed by Amway and other MLM scams and she blew it. Heidi is a joke. She loses her sister and jokes about it, she can’t even stayed married and got divorced, she couldn’t care less about others. She’s a waste. YOU could also help millions not get scammed, but NXIVM is so up your @sshole you can’t see straight. I couldn’t care less what you think of me, I’m on a mission to shut down MLM scams and refuse to be distracted by little babies. I’m looking for adults, not children like Heidi.

        • If you really mean what you typed, consider this – You had a pretty solid couple of weeks on FR. I found your posts entertaining and was chuckling at some of your humor. I was beginning to feel your anti-MLM vibe and was maybe getting a little on board with your above stated mission. Something happened Sunday with you and you turned into a demented, cruel, inhumane, sadistic version of Scott. What you typed to Heather and Heidi was monstrous and unforgivable. Any progress you made on your mission with people on this site was shot in the foot.

          Here’s where I’m going – if you care about it, stop self sabotaging your mission. Find what triggered your Sunday self and don’t let it get you again. Did you put something different in your body? Did you not put something in your body? Did anger enter your body? What changed on Sunday that caused you to self sabotage yourself? My guess is you do this in other parts of your life as well. You say you are looking for adults to help stop MLM scams. No adult with any morals could come on your show after what you typed to Heather. I doubt even Frank would come on your show again. If you are really on mission, don’t let yourself get in the fucking way of making it happen.

          • ..that he said those things because he doesn’t believe Heather or Heidi are who they claim to be.
            It’s pretty easy to be rude to a person who you think may be writing under a fake identity.

          • You crafted a very thoughtful post and I echo your sentiments. Scott does have very valid points about MLM and the harm it’s done and continues to do but his comments to Heather were so shocking. To call them insensitive falls so short of the mark. They were cruel. His treatment of Heidi is also uncalled for and rude. I hope he takes time to reflect on your words.

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