By An Ex-NXIVM
Part 3 V-Week and the Remaining 11 Days of Level 1
PART 4 – THE LEVEL 2
I quit ESP cold turkey for a couple of years. During that time, I did not attend any courses and I mingled very little with people within the organization. I think I was missed since some people would call me and tried to make me go back.
At one point, I was going through a dark stage in my life and a good friend of mine told me about a Level 2 course that was available and that could help me a bit. I had known and fully trusted this friend from a long time ago, prior to ESP, so I listened. My friend also told me that during the course, the feeling of love experienced was like nothing felt before.
So I went to Albany to take the Level 2.
I liked the content. It helped me see things in way that I had not considered before. I became more compassionate of myself. I met some interesting people and my overall rating of the course was positive at the time, even though I cannot remember much of what we covered.
Only this time, I was much more aware of what was happening and I was paying more attention to every detail. This is what I recall:
There was much emphasis placed on the secrecy of content and on the non-disclosure contract. They even talked about the fact that they had a vault (or a safe?) in which they placed all contracts and new material (content).
They asked if any of the participants was a psychologist, psychiatrist or a lawyer. When I asked why, I was told that psychologists and psychiatrist did not trust the methods of ESP and were reluctant to view things from a different perspective, whereas they had had bad experiences with lawyers (I assumed they had been sued in the past).
At one point, we were advised not to go outside much since there was a guy who was against ESP who took pictures and who wanted every excuse to build a case against them.
It was the first time in which I was in a course with Nancy Salzman and I did not feel she was anything special on her guidance/coaching.
At one point, Nancy praised the great salesmen there were in the organization and she mentioned something along the lines of “if it wasn’t for these great guys, we would not be successful as an organisation”.
I felt (this point is very subjective) a strong sense of urgency given to all of us to recruit more people into ESP and to keep enrolled into all NXIVM activities, courses and companies.
This was the second time that the course was taught and Keith (the founder of the company) did not bother to show up to assess how the course went. I thought that was very unprofessional.
Nancy made a comment during this Level 2 course that opened my eyes: She mentioned that in the early days, Keith had designed only 20 modules as he thought that was enough material for people to become ‘integrated’ and to ‘help humanity’ (her words not mine) but then he found out that people were not necessarily ‘getting it’ with so few courses (she even mentioned something like “that’s how much faith he had in us” — as if Keith was some kind of deity who tried to help humanity) so he started to design more and more modules and at the time there were around 200 of them and the plan was to keep adding more.
At this point, I understood that NXIVM’s mission was to have people hooked for life.
There were some girls at this Level 2 training who were famous actresses (I could not exactly mention who they were) but I did not witness any kind of special treatment.
I liked and enjoyed the Level 2 course overall. I took some notes that I thought were going to be very important in my life going forward.
I came back home and something happened that I became very uninterested in ESP so I stopped going to the center and I stopped going to courses. I quit cold turkey again, never to look back.
In my next post, I will give my final conclusions of my experiences in NXIVM.
[…] Part 4 I took Level 2 in Albany […]
All of you amateur Sherlock Holmes need to take a break.
EX-NXIVM, I’d like to get with you to see if you’d like to be on my radio show. In the previous chapter of your story, you mentioned that NXIVM isn’t the only scam using these techniques, and you’re dead-on correct. Most MLMs are scams and use the same principles. Let me know whether you would prefer to talk via Skype, a freeconferencecall.com number I have (and you can keep your phone number confidential if desired), or email me at email@example.com so we can arrange when to get together. Thanks.
NXIVM is so much more than your getting scammed in Amyway and spending too much money going to events, buying motivational tapes that are not a requirement and some soap.
You have no idea the depths of this cult and what they have done to ruin people’s lives.
It appears your trying to be helpful about warning people about your failure in Amway. Your story has been around for decades by so many who joined and didn’t find their success. Its re-washed news. Sorry Scotty boy but Amway has not been found to be illegal, nor does it compare even closely to NXIVM.
You really need to find a different soapbox to complain from. Your insults of people’s posts show what a small minded person you are.
Go ahead and take your best shoot Scooter. It’s nothing that can compare to the evil NXIVM empire hasn’t try to take me down.
Rock thrower, Shut up. You’re too stupid to rebut.
But you did anyway Scotty Boy
Go back to your Amway Soap Box
No, I didn’t. IDIOT.
He was still drunk from the night before at 6:28am.
He’s just talking in his mirror.
Just did it again Scooter Amway Boy. How many people did you have in your down line that you tried to scam with the dream of being a Diamond Scotty Potty?
If you’re so smart, you should put me in my place on my radio show. Except you’re too much of a coward to do so.
He stated in the beginning that he was Mexican, I never saw anywhere him saying he lived in Mexico. He also says a long time period went by between courses, yet he was contacted by espians/coaches during the off times trying to get him back in. That would make sense having someone followup on those who stopped for whatever reason. Eventually your going to catch someone going through a rough patch and talk them into trying a new course. If he is hiding his identity who can blame him. This cult was getting sicker with each new creepy secret group. DOS we know about. I wonder what Keith’s sick brain had planned next,now that Allison and Clare were proving to be sick people like him willing to do anything for thrills.
Can’t wait to hear the end of your story.
You are correct Anon.
People involved in NXIVM had recruiting quotas, so if a coach or proctor (yellow and orange sashes) wanted to remain at their rank or climb upon the ranks, they would have to keep recruiting more people frequently.
It would only make sense to reach out to people who had already been in ESP first (especially to people who left amicably) since it would be an easier sell/recruit for them than somebody who had never been exposed to ESP.
Looks like he’s using subterfuge.
He’s purposely trying to make us assume he lives in Mexico — but he’s clearly not a person living in Mexico, even though he’s probably Mexican by descent. I know lots of people living in Mexico, including well educated people, and they don’t speak (phrasing) or write like him when speaking English (for the most part).
My guess is that he’s probably not even of Mexican descent, but he’s claiming so because he’s scared shitless of NXIVM investigators and is trying to throw off the scent to anybody trying to learn who he is thru his writing.
That’s why he’s not giving us any details of how the tech changed his life — no detailed examples of what NXIVM told him during the classes, which means he’s scared shitless of somebody finding out who he is.
If he truly was Mexican he would have lied and said he’s Canadian or American, in order to throw us off the scent as to who he really is — to protect his identity.
Other than that, it’s a good story.
But he keeps making excuses as to why he kept going back for more classes, even after spotting red flags.
First he says it was for his first love “Jane” —– then he says it was to please another friend who recruited him in a dark period in his life. It sounds like he’s trying to justify (to himself) why he kept going back to this evil organization even after he spotted tons of red flags.
Kinda like that chick Just Sayin —– who stayed for a week before finally quitting the intensive, even after Keith supposedly “gazed” at her with a maddening glare which made her uncomfortable (she stayed for 5 full days while she was uncomfortable the whole time and seeing major red flags). She did this for the same reason this Mexican dude kept coming back —– they both suffer from a lack of ability to firmly say “no” to anybody and just walk away decisively.
If the guy is scared shitless why is he on here posting his story? What a bunch of lying morons and drama whores.
It’s as though you whacked out motherfuckers actually believe that the people reading your bullshit will believe it’s the truth…. or that we’ll believe you’re honestly just random people who are genuinely interested in this news story.
You keep proving how fucking retarded you are, with each and every comment you make.
Every single one of you is lying about something.
And the word is not YOUR, you stupid motherfuckers.. .but yes, you’re retarded.
You cuss so appallingly badly. Really, the elements of surprise, shock, the tonic effect of well placed swearing is entirely missing from your soggy dunderheaded sub-sub missives. If I communicated in writing as weakly, I’d try find another way of getting my message across. Art? Music? Dance?
Retarded much? – AMEN.
I’m not sure if the cranky old Amway dude is insulting me or agreeing with me, but I dont give a fuck either way.
The onewoman “I wear army boots” twat needs to be called out for her rudeness and stupidity. That fucking whore is not even Irish, like she pretends to be.
If you like cussing, you retarded cunt , I won’t disappoint.
Retard much? I’m agreeing with you.
What is your purpose in posting, just to be rude and offensive. Who are you to say who is telling the truth? Or that people aren’t genuinely interested in the outcome of this case? There are people who are exactly who they say there are. I’m sorry for another angry person on here, there are so many of you. It’s safer not to trust in today’s world .But it’s not necessary to try to hurt others with your words. The best of luck integrating.
You sound like a NXIVM shill. Exactly like a NXIVM shill.
“Zimmerman Flew and Tyler Knew”:
Do not worry. My testimony is genuine. i am posting it because it may hopefully help someone.
I am not including personal information because it is not relevant to the story, neither to the message that i am trying to communicate.
I shared the fact that i am Mexican because the dynamics of the Mexican and the American organisations were different. US$7,000 is a lot of money for an American person but it is much more for a Mexican person (in average).
If you are interested on knowing specifics about the things i learned, courses and/or modules just ask.
You may be right in your assessment when you say that i could have said “no” to a couple of people at one point. i also learned some new things in those courses that i found helpful in my life and that was the main reason why i did not quit cold turkey after the first 5 days intensive.
When you are first exposed to self-personal improvement techniques and the content of the curriculum is all new, you may not be paying much attention to some of these red flags, however they start to come up from the back of your head eventually and they start to make more sense.
I am curious. You stated earlier that you are a “Mexican male,” but in several posts you keep reverting to the British spelling of “organisation,” and your choice of word / syntax seems British or something similar. There are many fake postings on this site so forgive my query.
Does it make a difference? To me it does.
You guys are so prejudiced! I’m a Mexican male also, not so good at speaking in English and I can tell you that my story is almost identical to that of EX-NXVIM’s!
Maybe he went to British boarding school.
Or had an English -English teacher, or an African -English teacher, or a European English teacher or…Seriously? suspicious of someone writing English with British spelling??!!!!
We are not ALL prejudiced on this forum MxWlf. thanks for your articles.
What is with the constant nitpicking on spelling? My spell check which I didn’t set up, is constantly messing up my words I have to go back and fix my yours etc.. doesn’t mean I’m from another country.
Why on God’s earth would a second language english speaker, use British English in their spellings? Surely something suspicious about that? Im speechless.
It’s really that the spelling goes back and forth: “organization” for a while, then “organisiation” multiple times. That’s not spell check.
I am not prejudiced against Mexicans or anyone else. I just don’t like being fed a BS line. Like all the Pea Onyu crap.
Thanks for your question orangecountydreams – OCD.
When learning English as a second language you may be exposed to different ways of spelling. In Mexico the American way would be the most frequent, followed by the British way.
For me as a foreign speaker it does not make much difference how i write it. It would depend of my mood.
In a similar fashion, it is not very important to me to capitalise the word “i” , except at the beginning of a sentence.
I had no clue that some of my syntax would follow British standards. I would guess it would be due to my education (and Spanish speaking background perhaps?).
My testimony is genuine. I have nothing to gain from posting it. I wrote it hoping it would help someone.
You can trust everything you read on my posts and answers.
Hopefully i have helped a bit.
It sounds like you are very fortunate to have gotten away without more significant harm considering the amount of time you spent there off and on.
I guess if they had really been doing their jobs as well as they were supposed to, we wouldn’t be able to remember anything at all from the courses, and it would seem like the time had just flown by like various women have reported from time spent with Raniere.
I know what you mean about not really paying attention to people. There were various people that were pointed out to me that I probably should remember, and don’t.
Mark Vicente was interesting for me because I was a fan of his film before I ever knew what NXIVM was, and I met him as part of the recruitment process. It was mentioned to me that he was very busy with Vancouver where they were getting a lot of industry people involved, but that sort of thing never impressed me much, and I couldn’t have told you a single name that was rattled off.
The only particularly celebrity type I remember was meeting Cristina Fox, because I was pretty surprised she was there.
Who the fuck is Cristina Fox?
Google is your friend. Search for Ana Cristina Fox.
Did Tiny Keith put his tiny beef in her taco?
You are correct. Looking in retrospective i was very fortunate to have been able to get out without much harm.
I still have some resentment for NXIVM for the time and money that i spent, but i am working on it.
It could have been much more money and much more time. Fortunately i got out.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
These comments can be very helpful, especially for people who might be on the verge of leaving and/or trying to help someone to leave.
I appreciate you sharing your story. I have been saying all along that the tax evasion was part of the recruitment strategy, and I was quite sure I wasn’t the only one who was pitched that way.
I still have some anger come up from time to time, but I think it more of a fear of these guys getting away with it again.
I am glad you were willing to share your story even with the trolling we get for speaking out. Wish you well with your continued healing.
STORMY DANIELS ?
“There were some girls at this Level 2 training who were famous actresses (I could not exactly mention who they were) but I did not witness any kind of special treatment.”
Kristin Kreuk? Allison Mack? Nicki Clyne?
I am 90% sure they were Kristin Kreuk and Nicki Clyne.
I did not interact with them.
They were unremarkable to me.