Heidi Hutchinson on Barbara Bouchey and Keith Raniere

Heidi Hutchinson is the sister of the late Gina Hutchinson and has known Keith Raniere since the early 1980s when she first met him sneaking out of her sister’s bedroom – ass first.

At the time, Keith said he was going to marry Gina. He never did and later Gina was found dead in Woodstock, NY shortly after seeing Raniere in a hotel room with a hot tub.

Her death was ruled a suicide.  

Heidi was around long before Consumer’s Byline and NXIVM. She recalls the days when Gina helped Keith solve problems on his take-home IQ test – a fact that confirms he cheated and his claim of having an extremely high IQ is invalid.

Here are her views on Keith and on Barbara Bouchey’s recent appearance on the Megyn Kelly Today show.

By Heidi Hutchinson

Part of what deeply disturbs me about NXIVM — apart from the destructiveness to every life they touch — including flat-out harassment they’ve sporadically perpetrated on me for years — is that they “incorporated” some of my interviews and correspondence on and off the record with Jim Odato (former Albany Times Union Reporter) and others —into their “technology” or coursework.

They got my work after confiscating computers through bogus criminal, computer trespassing charges.

And did so (what else could they but?) in the most perverted manner imaginable.

For instance, I shared with Odato and others that my sister, Gina, at the time of her purported suicide was in a state of “cognitive dissonance” when she died. Also that there were “emotional triggers” I believe were set by Keith et al. over her lifetime association from the age of 13 with Keith and his “inner circle,” who experimented heavily on her and used her brain trust — her sincere, hard-won knowledge of Spiritualism, Buddhism and Eastern studies — albeit twisted through Keith’s deviant, devious grey matter — to further develop their evil “technology” even after it killed her — if one of them didn’t actually pull the “triggers.”

So, now, it appears Barbara Bouchey —and whoever else she thinks might or IS buying in — is changing historic facts to not only defend herself and the toxic “technology” that wreaked so much destruction on so many lives, but also to try to claim, and redistribute ownership of Keith and Nancy’s poisonous formulas!

The possible repercussions of taking this tact on the criminal cases, the civil cases, the media reports, the lives and psyche’s of the branding and other victims, on even Barbara herself is significant.

Yet, Barbara seems to be “oblivious” to the potential impact.

Call it the kind of “cognitive dissonance” Keith claimed (or threatened) sets in when anyone dares to leave him, call it latent “emotional triggers” Keith claimed he cures, not sets — put Barbara on suicide watch if that’s the case here — but I call it lying to advance one’s own agenda at the sacrifice of others lives.

As for Keith’s philandering and Barbara’s acceptance of she says three lovers – of course, it’s “normal” perhaps for those who are trapped in loveless relationships with someone they depend on financially, emotionally or otherwise to sustain themselves and/or their dependents and tolerate it.

I don’t think it’s “normal” for anyone who really loves and cares for another in a romantic sense to willingly let that mutual bond of true, romantic love be intruded on.

Further, I believe Keith cruelly used the desire for and expectation of a mutually exclusive relationship (at some point) with him — or with the fantasy of who he pretended to be — to manipulate many of his paramours – at least initially.

One other note to Barbara and any potential “takers” with a mind to repackage and resell any NXIVM components —

The NXIVM slogan: “He who has the most joy wins” was coined and penned by yours truly. I wrote it to Keith originally as, “SHE who has the most joy wins.”

It was my twist on the Biblical verse: “Man is that he might have Joy,” combined with a popular bumper sticker slapped on expensive cars and boats back in the day that read:

“He who dies with the most toys wins.”

So I rewrote it as SHE who has the most joy wins.”

I wrote it, Keith stole it and, later, he wired me $10,000 into my bank account for seed money to leave my husband and join his new business, ESP/NXIVM.

I left my husband but didn’t join NXIVM, or agree to have sex with Keith.

He claimed the money was payment for the slogan.

Given Keith’s propensity (or need — given his creative authenticity deficits) to not only plagiarize but pervert original material, I’d be very careful about what “goodies” you snatch from the NXIVM technology in any new venture as well as your claims to the media that you, not Keith, were the intellectual property thief.

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Frank Parlato


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  • Much appreciate your well-wishes and empathy. Yes, the prospect of any shred of NXIVM poison being spread further by anyone, as it seems Barbara and others are attempting, is what set me off.

    Some mention that Barbara may be in that state of “Cognitive Dissonance” I know Gina was in — and Keith himself boasted about and threatened would befall NXIVM defectors in videos he made following her death.

    Here’s a really good explanation with tips on how to overcome it —with love to Barbara and other NXIVM victims:


    • Heidi, I read about Gina and other NXIVM victims years ago. How this monster, his enablers and cult still continued to flourish over all these years is disgusting.

      When the Times Union expose came out in February 2012, I was thinking that finally the press would move in and the investigators would do their job. The expose named some celebrities including Kristin Kreuk and Allison Mack who I found out about through John Tigue’s blog. The same month as the Times Union expose, Joe O’Hara started his lawsuit against NXIVM naming those celebrities. Also, John Tigue exposed the Necker Island cult summit with photographic evidence, with accusations of financial crimes being discussed on the island. I thought with celebrities being named in an expose that discussed pedophilia, not to mention being named in a lawsuit for criminal activity and being directly accused of taking part in discussions regarding financial crimes, the press would take an interest in the NXIVM cult. Absolutely nothing happened. Both celebrities continued to be involved like nothing was happening. It was very disappointing.

      Did you think the Times Union expose would be the beginning of the end for NXIVM? Do you think if the press went after the celebrities, the investigators would of been forced to investigate and look into NXIVM crimes earlier?

      • They had all the local authorities in their pocket – either paid off or intimidated. Some had family members intertwined in the group. That is why the Eastern District of NY acted as opposed to the Northern District of NY, or Albany law enforcement. That is my understanding.

        • Albany DA David Soares as an example. But did they not have officials in their pocket in 2017? Why are the investigators investigating now? What changed? Is it is the gruesomeness of the brandings getting so much press attention forcing them to act? The same thing could of happened if the press spoke about those celebrities in early 2012. They have more fame then Sarah Edmondson. This could of been over earlier. DOS didn’t need to happen. For this reason, I am disgusted with these celebrities. Kristin Kreuk being the most famous in particular. Even when DOS was being exposed by Frank and he was calling her out to bring attention to the DOS story, nothing. Instead she was portraying herself as the savior of young girls in a television show. Frank was right to call her a hypocrite. Allison Mack went on to become a nutjob sex slaver. I know of many people in the acting world who were involved. Looking at their social media pages, they are all silent. I guess public image is more important to these people then doing the honorable thing. They truly did not learn about ethics in NXIVM.

          • They got a victim in Brooklyn, and found some crimes that were committed in Brooklyn (as opposed to the Albany area), which gave EDNY the jurisdiction it likely did not have before.

          • SultanOfSix still can’t stand any criticism of Kristin fucking Kreuk. And she STILL wont fuck you, you creepy deranged cunt. You don’t feel sorry for those pedophile victims do you dickhead? You don’t care that Kristin Crook was not disgusted by pedophilia and use her fame to speak out against the cult do you, you filth? Just fuck off and die old man.

          • OCD nailed it.
            The only reason anything happened now is because it’s a different jurisdiction. They couldn’t predict they should have bought someone down there.

          • First of all, learn what pedophilia is you ignoramus. Raniere engaged in alleged statutory rape of teenagers and their exposure in the 2012 TU article was made well past the statute of limitations for those crimes. Second of all, you haven’t given evidence for anything. You just keep saying the same shit over and over again about John Tighe who didn’t produce any such evidence, or at least any that anyone publicly knows about. Third of all, you’re not “disgusted” by anything related to NXIVM. That’s just a mask you don for your real motive. So what if Kristin didn’t speak out against NXIVM after that TU article. Boohoo. Call the waaaaaaambulance. She left soon after the expose and moved on with her life. What was she going to do? Call a press conference and announce to the world why she left NXIVM? Bring upon herself some unnecessary litigation and be sued into oblivion and/or some false criminal charges? You presuppose that she knew of all the internal machinations that were happening in NXIVM as if they were facts and then go on castigate her for that presupposition. Sorry you’re so butt hurt about her not getting trapped up in DOS so you can piss on her some more. The only thing you’re disgusted by is Kristin’s rejection of you.

          • “She left soon after the expose and moved on with her life.”

            No shit didn’t.

            “The only thing you’re disgusted by is Kristin’s rejection of you.”

            I never heard of her until I learnt about NXIVM nor have I ever met her you stupid raghead cunt. Unlike you, I have zero sexual interest in this d-list actress, or anyone else in NXIVM. They are all cunts to me. Like you are. Kill yourself.

          • “No she didn’t”.

            ORLY? How would you know not giving a shit about a d-list actress you hadn’t even heard of until you learned about NXIVM, huh?

            You “never heard of her until I learned about NXIVM” whatever that even means, so you just all of a sudden one day took a larger interest in the NXIVM story and whatever I post in defense of Kristin Kreuk who you have no emotional interest in triggers you so little you response with bigoted insults and attack my heritage because of it?

            Haha. Yeah, I can see how you’re so unemotionally uninvolved and don’t give a shit.

          • Unlike you stalker, I never heard of any of these actress cultists until I learnt about NXIVM you fucking worthless shit stain cunt. If you respond back, I will write out a verse of the quran on toilet paper and wipe my ass with it. Fucking prick. Fuck you.

          • You were warned. Also, on your parents wedding day, did they put a bucket of shit near your mom to keep flies away from her third world cunt?

          • You presuppose anything foul you say against me actually impacts me or my character in the slightest. You don’t understand how Reality works. You’re just a bigot hiding behind a mask. You give yourself way too much self-importance.

      • Yes, it was a tremendous disappointment to me that Odato’s 2012 expose’ had so little impact and was not “picked-up” by any other media.

        I think there are many reasons for that:

        – The Bronfman sister’s funding and imprimatur of their familial connections used to cultivate political clout and engender fear of reprisal.

        – Ditto the above as to the Salinas family.

        – There were few big name celebrities involved — not on the level of Catherine Oxenberg, who is of international fame and royalty — I say with all due respect to the Kristin WHO? fans on here.

        – The crimes were not as current, obvious, heinous or provable as what’s allegedly occurred most recently.

        – There was no “Frank Parlato;” no de-facto publicist following up with, feeding facts and sources to or presenting story angles from “Frank Report,” for other media outlets.

        – A well-funded, brutal, criminal (IMHO) attack was made or ordered by NXIVM leaders to punish and silence any and every individual who had a discouraging word to utter against Keith Raniere or his devotees.

        As a consequence, even the Albany TU story was not as powerful as it might have been were more sources willing to come forward with the facts.

        (Frank Parlato had to a lot of digging to find sources willing to talk at all, let alone go on record, even despite the horrendous news he broke about the mass mutilation with the brandings.)

  • Heidi, I hope Gina, you and the rest of your family are finally able to have some justice. Most of us can only imagine what you have been through.

    • I second that. Your family has paid the ultimate price just for being acquainted with this toxic creature. I’m sorry. Another reason why this man must spend the rest of his life incarcerated.

  • – apart from the destructiveness to every life they touch

    Whether that touch is direct or indirect, truer words could not be spoken.

    • So true, which is why I feel sick to my stomach every still brainwashed person talks about the “good” of it.

      People who have never been to an intensive can’t fully understand how bad it really is.

  • Heidi. You misjudge Keith. He has immense compassion but he is also an ethical being. Ethics mean sometimes peoepek must be punished to teach them. He is unified and unlike you and the others who are plagued with many issues and disintegrations ( you are filled with them ) he is unified. What he does is always right. And this short jail experience is only to test us. To see if we are loyal. He will come out and be greater than ever. He is proving he can absorb all pain. His soul is being branded – with the initials of God. And like I said before he is more of God than man. Heidi follow the lead of Barbara Bouchey. She lives for Keith and adores him. It is sad about your sister but Keith raised her into a higher platform where she lives in infinite time. Barbara Bouchey is the living proof of Keith’s greatness. Follow her in everything. She had serious disintegrations. He had to send her away for a time to learn to truly love him. She does and now she has told the world of her adoration of him and her great love on Megan Kelly. Her only true happiness is with him. Keith will take her back and she can help organize and with Nancy so sick Barbara might be the next Prefect. This proves how great Vanguard is. Believe Heidi. Don’t go astray.

    • Pea On You that means that to be unified. In reality you think that only because Keith taught you something with a small amount of truth does that make the wise true wisdom has a strength that is independent of whoever professes it.

    • Sweet Pea,

      Perhaps I have misjudged Keith. For the last time I saw Barbara Bouchey, just about a week before her surprise Megan Kelly appearance, she was all-aglow — overflowing with joy and renewed hope of proving herself worthy of Keith’s “integrated,” oneness — his divine whole and holy love. But so unselfish is Barbara Bouchey’s love that she knows it is Allison Mack, not herself alone, chosen to sally forth and spread the sacred teachings of NXIVM. (Sure, Allison may need a little therapy first…)

      Barbara did nearly convince me that Keith was so authentically broken up over my sister’s death — she was there, she says, when Keith and his top disciples “first” heard the news — and so devastated was Keith, Barb recalled, that he might even have been in danger of “disintegrating” himself — as he so often feared Gina might disintegrate — a fate that befalls all who lose their faith in him, as Keith has long prophesied and Gina’s death may only prove.

      If only Gina had stayed true and loyal to Keith, perhaps she would not have met such a terrible, untimely end. Indeed. But, as you say, Gina joyously “transcended” to a place where she may be made whole and integrated like Keith. If, I suppose, Keith is there to guide her and keep her from disintegration. Godspeed him.

  • That is not a biblical verse, it’s from a Mormon book. Where was Mormonism invented? Nowhere else but update New York, and Mormons also believe in multiple wives. Looks like Raniere took his Amway scam experience, mixed it with some jealousy about Brigham Young’s lifestyle, and created NXIVM. Heidi, did you know Raniere when he was in Amway?

  • It’s interesting to me that those who are actually in the know or have experience with NXIVM, do not perceive Barbara to be the hero she thinks she is.

  • Keith is quite competent to do an IQ test alone if anything he might have let Gina help him to teach her. He knew the answers already but just let her help to build her confidence. Ask Karen she was three and she knew Keith had all the answers. Even the ones he did not put the right answers in he did they just to not look too perfect. He knew he had the top score.

    • IDK if you were there, Pea, but I really think that might be exactly what Keith told us when he ask for our take on the IQ test. I remember jibbing Gina about it being open book, what does it prove (?) and her saying that Keith was testing US and teaching her how to take a test. Gina was sure he already knew all the answers but wanted to see if she and I were as smart as he thought and who was smarter. He was always putting us against each other like that, it was insane. But she, of course, believed him. He’d been at her and her friends since they were 13, 14 years old. As all her friends can attest, smart as Gina really innately was, she was incredibly naive and sheltered and hung on Keith’s every sorry word. The IQ test questions were pretty hairy. Made by brain hurt. I just fired up and passed the joint and the book back to Gina. 😉
      Again, thanks for your comment to my surprise post Frank graciously culled from the comment section. I’ll call Barb Tom. if she’s still talking to me. I was a little impetuous. It’ll be fine.


      • That isn’t the first post were it’s clear that Pea knows things that only inner circle would know. I got my money on Pea being Karen U.

        BTW, I always have felt in my heart that there were 3 inner circle people who were deep down good people, and who would eventually see the light and help stop Keith. Pam C, Nancy, and Karen U. I still feel that way, but will sadly settle for 2 of 3.

  • “Further, I believe Keith cruelly used the desire for and expectation of a mutually exclusive relationship (at some point) with him — or with the fantasy of who he pretended to be — to manipulate many of his paramours – at least initially.”

    I second that 1000% – I experienced it personally. He has been playing his mental/emotional games and leaving triggers behind for a very long time.

    I disagree on the polyamory, though – if all involved are informed and consenting on their own, I think they can form interwoven bonds. Not my thing but to each their own. Except it really wasn’t Raniere’s own either. His style was trick ’em and trap ’em. There’s no respect or love in that at all.

    • Thank you. I’m sorry you got caught up in the “trick and trap” that, I believe, my sister saw only one way out of. I very much regret that even as I saw Keith over the years building a more and more trecharous girl trap, I was powerless to help stop him and those he suborned — though I did make an effort with others much as I was able. I think it’s safe now and maybe necessary to say so. And I intend to help keep it safe for others to speak up, if they wish, if they must to heal the emotional scars.

      Here’s a link that you and others might enjoy about the characteristics and dangers of a narcissistic psychopath. IMHO Keith would not require any help to ace a test for those disorders:


      • I agree that it’s clear he’s a psychopath. Do you think he has been trying to create sociopaths? Rainbow etc?

About the Author

Frank Parlato is an investigative journalist.

His work has been cited in hundreds of news outlets, like The New York Times, The Daily Mail, VICE News, CBS News, Fox News, New York Post, New York Daily News, Oxygen, Rolling Stone, People Magazine, The Sun, The Times of London, CBS Inside Edition, among many others in all five continents.

His work to expose and take down NXIVM is featured in books like “Captive” by Catherine Oxenberg, “Scarred” by Sarah Edmonson, “The Program” by Toni Natalie, and “NXIVM. La Secta Que Sedujo al Poder en México” by Juan Alberto Vasquez.

Parlato has been prominently featured on HBO’s docuseries “The Vow” and was the lead investigator and coordinating producer for Investigation Discovery’s “The Lost Women of NXIVM.” In addition, he was credited in the Starz docuseries 'Seduced' for saving 'slave' women from being branded and escaping the sex-slave cult known as DOS.

Parlato appeared on the Nancy Grace Show, Beyond the Headlines with Gretchen Carlson, Dr. Oz, American Greed, Dateline NBC, and NBC Nightly News with Lester Holt, where Parlato conducted the first-ever interview with Keith Raniere after his arrest. This was ironic, as many credit Parlato as one of the primary architects of his arrest and the cratering of the cult he founded.

Parlato is a consulting producer and appears in TNT's The Heiress and the Sex Cult, which premieres on May 22, 2022.

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Contact Frank with tips or for help.
Phone / Text: (305) 783-7083
Email: frankparlato@gmail.com