By William T Brando
NXIVM’s “Executive Success Programs” [ESP] was promoted as training that could make any student a millionaire.
As a long-time reader and occasional commenter on this site, I don’t recall any stories of any ESP student becoming a millionaire. And surely NXIVM would have touted that to recruitment prospects in the multi-level marketing scheme that ESP was.
Yes, some of the ESP students were ALREADY millionaires, particularly Bronfmans and some of the Mexicans, but as far as I recall reading, they all LOST money supporting Raniere.
And even Raniere lost millions (questionably transferred from ESP students) in the commodities futures markets, and Los Angeles real-estate markets.
But I think there is one case of ESP actually creating a millionaire: Sarah Edmondson. She was an actress in Vancouver Canada, barely breaking even, until she met producer/director/cinematographer Mark Vicente, who sold her on ESP. They jointly opened the Vancouver Canada ESP centre, which was probably the most successful ESP centre outside of Mexico. Ms. Edmondson recruited about 2000 students to ESP, and maintained what was, by all accounts that I know about, a safe and sincere (if vastly overpriced) mutual self-help network.
Most of the student fees I assume went back to NXIVM in Albany, but over about a decade her share was likely considerably more than a million (Canadian) dollars. Which allowed her to buy a nice condo in a nice neighborhood in Vancouver Canada. Those cost more than a million dollars.
My own opinion on Sarah Edmondson’s ethics is mixed. I don’t doubt her sincerity in believing and promoting the value of the entry-level ESP modules; they were constructed to be such, by plagiarizing Scientology and [Werner] Erhard Seminars Training (known as EST in the 1970’s, now re-branded as Landmark) and other self-help programs. Over her involvement with NXIVM (more than a decade) it’s hard to believe that she didn’t realize that no one ever “graduated” from ESP into becoming an independent “Executive Success.” All that ever happened was students were persuaded to recruit more students, and teach them the ESP modules, without being paid themselves.
But Sarah Edmondson herself DID become a millionaire. And I think that she is the only one that ESP ever produced.
Hey Guys!
Sarah is never truly going to apologize or produce a full mea culpa.
Why?
Because she doesn’t want to open herself up to a lawsuit or any form of litigation.
During her Ted talk she compares herself to the Jim Jones cult.
You listened to her TED Talk?
Wow this place is insane
(Comment section)
Lots of angry and bitter people
Either positions you are defending, you guys all need to take a chill pill!!
Judge Komitee has approved the Plaintiffs motion to amend their complaint. Win for Glazer.
Will it be three strikes and you’re out for Edmondson suing Nicki?
Nicki is named in the civil suit by another woman.
The woman who did free work for Sarah’s centre?
So boring. Same comments every time. She names Nicki. It will all be hashed out in court. In the meantime try some new talking points. Just for fun. To break the rat maze of your mind. Try it. It’s a good brain exercise.
What merchandise is Sarah hawking?
If it’s a swimsuit calendar – I’ll buy it.
Supporting Nippy must be expensive.
Sarah in a swimsuit calendar would be great. As I have said before, there needs to be a “woman of NXVIM” calendar. Sarah, Nicki, Alison, Kristin Kreuk all those hotties that Sarah recruited. And all should be topless.
The calendar needs to have topless Vanguard, and topless Nippy, as well.
The only fair way is topless and bottomless for all.
Some of the gals have nice bottoms (Kreuk) and others can show off their brands and whether they are still unshaven or not. And let’s see why Vanguard’s penis had so many female admirers.
Al-
Add to the swimsuit pictorial calendar:
1. The chick from Terminator 3!!!!
2. Nippy!!!! He’s a bottom so he’s kinda like a chick.
Interesting factoid:
“The word ‘frank’ is used as a derogatory nickname for sephardim in Israel (equivalent to ni****).”
Perhaps, Franks parents named their Sicilian son “Frank” so the [redacted].
Fascinating!!!!
Perhaps all three!
Comments are moderated, so Frank had to let this one through…
Let’s analyze your name.
My name is
Anita Blackcalk.
These people who do not like Sarah Edmondson or how she makes money sure are monitoring her every single move.
Why are you looking at her on social media? Why are you mentioning what her children are doing? That’s super f****** weird if you don’t like somebody. Are you like hate scrolling?
Just don’t pay attention to her if you don’t like her. Stop monitoring her every move and counting her money and keeping an eye on with her children are doing.
It’s inconceivable that a person who does not like another human being is combing the internet to find things that will trigger them about that person. Get a f****** life.
Sarah isn’t your Aunt that you have to see at Thanksgiving.
Sarah is a stranger to you, as you are to her. Trust and believe she’s not monitoring you and looking at what your children are doing.
It’s entirely possible if you don’t like a person, not to go on their instagram. Not to listen to their podcast. Not to read or buy their book. Not to attend their TED Talk.
Those are achievable things you can do to avoid a person that you do not know and do not like. Try it sometime.
Here’s the best part about that strategy it actually requires you to do nothing. That’s it. You do nothing.
You don’t go to their social media. You don’t listen to what they are saying. You don’t buy their book. You don’t go to their appearances.
You do nothing. And you never have to see or hear from them again. Easy peasy
Sarah-
You should point out you did not receive any money for the TED talk.
No renumeration!
You gave the talk to educate people about cults.
You are at the end of the day a you’re undeniably a heroine.
I wish you well!
Take care!
***
Other than making fun of Nippy and knit picking you – I could care less.
Lastly, I’m in desperate need of life.
I know I’m a crank.
LMAO @ myself! 🤣
***
*Note:
If you were my aunt I’d tell you to go back to Burnett/black.
Blonde doesn’t fit your coloring and it ages you. Don’t be a Shiksa!!!
Perhaps there are other venues doxxing Sarah Edmondson’s kids, but I haven’t seen it here, and very much doubt that Frank would tolerate that. Frank has been fiercely protective of another innocent child of NXIVM. Those who have been following this saga know that, and I’m not going to say any more.
Yes, there are critical discussions of motives and actions of both sides of the NXIVM / DOS affair. With, shall we say, varying, levels of perceptiveness, maturity, and profanity. But I haven’t seen kids being brought in here.
Of course!
You’re trying to have a rational conversation with lunatics.
I hope Sarah becomes a billionaire. Had she been given a thousand dollars for every woman she saved from Keith’s clutches and his dos club, she would be richer. Hope her suit against Keith, and the Bronfman enriches her further.
Only a man would write an article calling out a woman who stopped another man from further child and woman sexual predation. Only a man.
Only a man who was envious of little Keith’s sexual exploits, in way of a defence and diversion would call out Sarah and her bank balance and home ownership. Eduardo, little ugly Suneel, the Mexico fanboys, or just a peripheral player pissed off he missed out on that 100 poontang.
Keith’s still a predator.
Keith’s still in jail.
Keith is dying in jail, no more midnight volleyball and group blowies.
Just you, his fanboy keeping his dream alive, in your own mind, as you knock one out, envious you weren’t there for the glory days.
VIVA LA EDMONSON!!!!
“Had she been given a thousand dollars for every woman she saved from Keith’s clutches and his dos club, she would be richer.”
She was given thousands of dollars by women who got branded, does that count?
Come on, Anne.
That’s not exactly true.
Sarah got a downline for enrolling people in ESP just like everyone else in Nxivm on the stripe path.
Don’t try to make it sound like people were giving her thousands of dollars to join DOS. That’s a lie.
How many of Sarah’s slaves were even branded, Anne? Do you know?
You might have valid points. But when you make these kind of over the top ridiculous statements it negates the validity of what you comment.
Try an accurate critique if you want to criticize Sarah. It would be more effective than misleading hyperbole
2 i think
2000 into his clutches DID pay thousands though and some are being sued for the privilege!
Nobody paid to get into DOS. They were recruited based on their appearance mainly. And Keith’s attraction or use for the women. Trusted friends told them it was an all-female organization (which was a lie if you are amongst the top tier slaves). And then they were blackmaiked and deceitfully branded with Keith’s initials. And in some cases given a seduction assignment (blackmailed into sexual contact with vanguard) and/or trafficked. For the last 5 -6 years, the cult dead enders have made it very clear that ESP and DOS were “not the same”,
Sarah did not know Keith was involved. Sarah did not know the brand was Keith’s initials. Sarah did not know the blackmail went to Keith. Blame Sarah all you want for encouraging people to enroll in dubious self-help courses. But Sarah is in no way responsible for the slave ring
But
Camila knew & lied about it, js
Yeah I’ve heard based on appearance before, Vicentes pre pubescent ideas, then tell me why and what did Jay have to offer Raniere, she fit none of those bills
and Cami was one of those trusted friends lying
Nobody here said she was.
Its the duality she possess, its dropping Nancy Saltzman, Lauren, who WERE responsible for MUCH of the supposed Slave Ring.
If there was a” Team Hound ” it was imposed by Nancy & Lauren two other HIGHLY PAID enforcers!
That’s your response?
To switch to Cami? Yep. Camilla was under Keith’s coercive control from 13 years old. Her entire family was indoctrinated into the cult. She was brought into Nxivm as a child.
And still woke up eventually.
What’s your excuse for still defending Vanguard?
No one brought up the fact that she’s trying to make money with merch.
Merch about cult stuff.
That is next level… and she’s using her kids all over social medias to promote…
Idk…
Merch too
How Hipster
I don’t want to know
That’s exactly what I’m doing now. I would have asked for help, but just a few more nights working the pole and I’ll have enough money to create something amazing.
Don’t buy the merch
Block her on social media.
Have a good day.
@ 8:15
its not the same as being born into , she was a teenager Not a child. I say this in regards to her mind and upbringing and history that at 13 I’d have been much more of a fighter and just said NO , I would definitely have told my sisters and mother.what he was doing IF it appalled me.
I also brought up Jay, her physical appearance was not slender & she had no money .
There are many movements going on today to honestly try to heal people of trauma , quite a few are listed as tantra., some people are of the mindset that it will bring back males of yesteryear rather than having wimpy men who can’t handle anything and bitter women who are sick of carrying the ball.
They also claim to be able to do it without drugs alcohol and antidepressants
Obviously some are masquerading under things like one touch however I think NXIVM, at least initially, was aiming for this direction. & I do believe people that are being persecuted now where the poor smucks left holding the bag when everyone ran back to Mexico , its wrong !
Were*
@11:15 om
Ohhhh. Okay. You are weird as fuck.
Got it.
My mistake.
Have a great life. I wish you well.
8:15 But. .
She still woke up …
Millions of dollars can be
Powerful Smelling Salts
Ask Saltzman…
Will Sarah be doing TeDx on the east coast?
And also:
People probably wouldn’t complain as much about them if they were not displaying hypocrisy: suing other victims of the cult while having been perpetrators themselves.
This is pure gaslighting.
I agree Eve
and those who have suffered the most are some really great people who truly believed they were making a difference
Objectively, Camilla suffered the most because she was a child. And was used in child sexual abuse materials. She was brought into the cult by her family. Her own parents. To be molested and kept by a 40 year old man alone in a townhouse in a foreign country to be used sexuslly at his whim
But it’s not the suffering Olympics and only the first three worst abused place in the trauma winning trifecta.
A lot of people were hurt. Thank God Keith is in jail. Thank you Sarah Edmondson for everything you did and risked to make sure Keith was locked away forever.
And she received 400k in addition to all those years of free rent
Objectively, she made out better than Amber Heard~
Are you really saying that a minor child who is molested by 40 something man received “free rent?”
So children who are kept in a secret apartment or other location to be used and exploited sexually by middle-aged men should be grateful that they didn’t pay rent?
That’s really your stance?
And you think that 400k covers the trauma of being used in child sexual abuse materials, losing all of your teenage years to a pedophile l and his coercive control?
Is that what age 13 into your early twenties is worth for you?
Losing all those years? Is that the price you would put on it for one of your children?
All of that sexual abuse, trying to take her her own life? Permanent damage to her fertility because of Keith’s sexually transmitted disease? Abortions? And an eating disorder she’ll deal with for the rest of her life? Plus being repeatedly sexually abused as a minor?
That adds up to 400 k to you?
She was not a child when she received free rent. In addition, she had a job, she could save money that way, No?
Her parents had a home there if she wanted it…
No secret apt. As a child at all.
My guess is she had an eating disorder long before she met him , Many teenage girls do.
Didn’t she have the option to tell her parents she wants nothing to do with him based on pictures she felt were inappropriate?
How can anyone be sure that her fertility issues are due to Keith’s transmitted disease when she had relationships with others? I mean its possible but not definite. Did all his other girlfriends have a sexually transmitted disease? If she was pregnant, what fertility issue is she having??
I’m not saying I would want anyone to go through so many issues but Millions do, everyday.
I honestly believe she had options and didn’t use them .
Am I the only one who feels like every comment defending Sarah and Mark is written by them? Anonymousy or with a fake name…
Why coming on this blog to defend themselves if what they’re doing is so legit?
Yes. You are the only one.
Anonymous at 3:11 p.m.
You’re blaming the child for being molested and used in sexual abuse materials? It’s her fault because she didn’t tell her parents at the time?
I’m not blaming her
I’m pointing out inconsistencies
Frank has reported and it came up in court that Camilla was kept in an unknown to the community location.
As a child.
She was 13 when she met Keith Thirteen. With no disordered eating. There are copious amounts of texts and emails from Keith controlling Camilla’s weight and restricting her diet. Keith is not a doctor. Nor a nutritionist. Just a pedophile
It is entirely possible to trace an STD through specific strains. Obviously, you’re not a doctor either. Hopefully not a pedophile. Because you sure are an apologist for child molesters.
Saying “millions” go thru “issues” everyday is one of the poorest excuses to diminish a child being exploited through sexual abuse materials and ongoing sexual abuse ever written. We’re talking about one specific child. Who should never have been mistreated in this way. Saying that other children have also been mistreated in no way minimizes Camilla’s trauma.
You should sign your name to your comments. Stand up loud and proud as a pedophile apologist and a defender of coercive control and cultic abuse.
I’m sure everyone who knows you would think you are a real stand-up person. Not just an anonymous coward who doesn’t believe in their disgusting views enough to sign their own name.
I notice you didn’t sign your name either.
Do you have an answer for “the pregnant child “with Extreme
Fertility problems as well?
Personally, if someone is unwillingly being exploited over & over, I believe at some point, they would tell their
parents?
If an STD can pinpoint the actual donor, they I say, Good! Go for it !
My understanding was she lived with her parents @ 13.
I’m really kind of perplexed on the issue of why she wouldn’t ask her parents to take up the offer of the FREE scholarship abroad unless she Wanted to be where she was, valid considerations …
Combined the 3 sisters have accumulated over a million dollars so that does give me pause.
I wonder, what’s the age of consent in Mexico?
Camilla’s parents believed Keith was a deity. The entire community revered Vanguard the disgusting.
Camilla was a child in a foreign country.
If you cannot understand the power imbalance and fucked up dynamics n a cult there’s honestly something not right in your brain.
Fertility, getting pregnant/versus staying pregnant and maintaining a healthy and viable fetus are also bviously too complex for you.
Who gives a shit (in this case) what the age of consent is in Mexico when they crime happened in America?
You are Damon Brink level obtuse.
Truly dense.
Since Cami was from Mexico she might have viewed age consent differently than you do.
The concept is not too complex but generally fertility deals with Getting Pregnant FIRST, then proper care and keeping up with Dr. Appts.
It seems to me she conceived once before , the chances are good she will again. If thats what she wants , I wish her well., some women don’t want children, in todays environment, I understand that choice as well.
P.S. if you haven’t noticed, Power Imbalances are everywhere Today!
I heard today that the self check out machines are asking for tips now!!!
Camilla’s Victim Impact statement shows very clearly that she does not view the age of consent differently. I will take Camilla’s direct statement over your bizarre speculations any day.
Only a pedophile apologists would think it was a funny joke to bring up self-checkouts in the context of talking about a woman who is sexually exploited as a child.
It’s also just not a very humorous statement in any context.
You’re starting to sound very familiar
anon@ 2:57 you seem focused on the money/entitlement (free rent) you imagine this child had and you seem pretty meh about her abuse.
are you impoverished and put up with abuse yourself? maybe you think no one can trump your experience and the only problem with these other victims (the tone here seems similar to comments re the Catherine Kassenhof case…) is they havent been beat with a big enough stick? Are they getting too much attention, love and sympathy maybe you never received yourself? What might earn sympathy from your stony doubting heart?
I hope you stay safe in life and never need a helping hand. If you doubt such a thing exists, for yourself, you are probably right.
Its a total oxymoron to say She was pregnant but has vast fertility problems/issues.
Pretty much everyone is against pedophiles and adults creating child sexual abuse materials.
Except pedophiles.
And their appologists.
My name is;
“society at large in America”
And those depraved molesting acts are also against the law in America.
Another name for my comment could be;
“law abiding citizen who strongly opposes the sexual abuse and exploitation of children”
What would your moniker be? Who do you really represent? Are these your own views against a childhood victim like Camilla? Or the views of your convicted cult leader?
I represent myself. Lucky, I suppose, to never get caught up in a scenario like this one BUT as such I do question BOTH sides
What other side is there to question when a 15 year old girl is made to pose in an explicit sexual manner by a 40 something year old man? You mean Keith’s side?
In court there were texts and emails in Keith’s own written words confirming the sexual exploiting of Camilla started at 15 years old. The grooming of Camilla began at 13.
And Keith’s lawyers are on record confirming the date of the child sexual abuse photographs of Camilla. Taken at 15 years old.
There’s medical records. A 40 something old man had an ongoing exploitive and abusive sexual relationship with a 15-year-old girl.
And you want to take the “other side”? The 40 + year old cult leader?
Not the side of the 15 year old girl?
That’s your stance? Okay, champ.
10 54
I suppose I’d be less stoney if Cami didn’t do what she did to Nicole.
It behooves me that a guy who ran in bathroom crying could Force her to do that to another woman unless she wanted to. She could of just kicked him in the nuts or asked Nicole ‘Is this something you want to try?
If Sarah Edmondson became a millionaire then it is from her own work as an actress and writer.
NXIVM was incidental to that work.
Is this truly ShadowState1958?
Is the Apocalypse beginning……
The interesting thing about Sarah is she is going to continue to earn an income through NXIVM. From her book, to her podcast, her public speaking appearances (Ted Talks), it’s all about NXVIM. She admitted recently she has no desire to act anymore. It’s all about NXIVM all the time. Wouldn’t be surprised if she has another book comes out soon. Not sure how much income the podcast brings. Needs the public speaking appearances(and book deals) to keep the money coming in.
Maybe thats because she wasn’t such a great actor? Except in selling NX Membership?
Fyi Ted talks don’t pay anyone. Educate yourself!
Ted Talks don’t pay
And Ted Talks are not places where people are invited to.
People have to register themselves.
That’s the pathetic part.
Bragging about doing a Ted Talk like if they wanted he there
She wanted her there…
Sure cause she can give away 100 copies of her book & renew interest in it~
What about your book? Anyone interested in it?
I mean it’s better than bragging about not doing a TED Talk.
If someone had a dream and they achieved it I think that’s pretty cool.
# NXIVM Goals !
That depends if its listed as fact or fiction?
Maybe not. Just plugging her book.
Her kids selling merchandise?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cs6RZOHpH4a/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Let’s Go Brandon.
Where did the black money go?
There were certainly enough in NXIVM to make someone a millionaire. Who became a millionaire as a result, or became even richer? One could add the one or ones who really became millionaires through Executive Success and NXIVM. Any suggestions on who it might be.
Raniere and Nancy
Raniere certainly got access to millions through NXIVM. But far more of it was wheedled out of individual rich gullible victims than the cash flow from mundane students. And he avoided it appearing in his name.
Nancy Salzman pretty clearly kept lots of mundane NXIVM cashflow on hand, as actual cash. It may have been millions. The story goes that the Mexican centres preferred US dollar cash payments, which were called “scholarships” on the books so there was no tax to pay, and the cash was smuggled to Nancy in Albany.
But Raniere and Nancy were founders not students.
Barbara Bouchey was an early student and good recruiter who may have built a big enough down-line to get to millionaire level, although Raniere lost most of her money in stupid commodities futures trading. She may have made millions managing the Bronfman sister’s money. And was involved in bringing Frank Parlato into investigating if Raniere’s choice of a Los Angeles real estate developer was bilking the sisters. Which resulted in Raniere turning on Frank after Frank told the Bronfman sisters that Raniere wasn’t an infallible genius. Which resulted in Frank turning on Raniere….
Mark Vicente’s Los Angeles centre may have gotten him a million dollars.
Barbara Jeske was a legacy from Consumer Buy-Line that I think may have had a big enough down-line to get to a million dolllars (over time, not per year).
@ prefect and Vanguard are different cases, that is a very good point. I can’t frankly figure out how NXIVM made any money at all from their famed courses. According to Nancy Salzman, 17 000 people took NXIVM courses, during ten years. That breaks down to 1700 people a year, which is nothing. Even if each of them spent 100 000 each on courses ( a generous estimate), it would not have been a profitable venture. I think Susan Dones and the NXIVM 9 brought up how the business model wasn’t working during their meeting with Keith and there is no evidence it was working after that either. Nancy might have been flying around and giving EM’s for ridiculous sums at some time, but it is doubtful that money trickled into the business. The Mexican money seems to have gone straight into shoe boxes, and all members rattling around in Albany appear to have been broke and was working for free to pay for courses and EM’s. The only real money appears to have been siphoned off the Bronfmans Trust funds.
Could Danny Masterson end up in USP Tucson? He and Vanguard could have some interesting times… https://www.tmz.com/2023/06/03/danny-masterson-jail-oj-simpson-suge-knight-rape-conviction/
Was Masterson a federal case or state ?
The trial of Masterson was conducted by Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Charlaine F. Olmedo in California. It is not a federal court.
https://apnews.com/article/danny-masterson-rape-trial-2023-6894e08e52f6f33d7293b4e9cb8baeae
That suggests that Danny and Keith are unlikely to convene in Tucson
This Sarah Edmondson bashing is so weird. As far as I can tell, running the Vancouver centre, leading courses and recruiting people was her job. Paying to set up the centre and paying rent, salaries, taxes, travel to Albany etc, fell on her, as well as sending money to NXIVM HQ. It was a MLM operation after all. And Nancy’s raging on The Vow that Sarah was paying back members for courses with “our money”, makes it quite clear that whatever income was coming in also belonged to NXIVM. I have no idea what percentage of the income went to Sarah, but it is pretty clear, it was not 100 percent. Did she buy her condo without a mortgage? Is that was is implied? From what I understand it also took a good few years before she reached a rank where she was actually making money, and before that she was paying for courses and working for free like most people in NXIVM.
—[Sarah] Only because Mark told her[Sarah] the FBI was Investigating not to do the right thing.
Is this true Frank?
The thing is, when you’re in a cult, you have your cult personality and your real personality. They both fight to co exist.
After leaving a cult, it would be easy to blame it all on the cult personality. I was power hungry in the cult. And I bullied others. I had to reconcile myself with that after I left. And I had to be sincere about it and apologize to some people.
Sarah never acknowledged the horrible person she has been. She blames all the bad on the cult and wants us to believe that her true self has nothing to do with it.
That’s what people don’t buy.
She got rich cause she was a poster girl, she abused others and she manipulated people. And apparently, she did it really well.
That’s what she’ll never admit.
The CBC podcast about NXIVM did a really great job showing that.
The CBC podcast brought up one interesting manipulative/abusive act:
Sarah admitted to performing high pressure sales techniques in order to squeeze out every dollar:
On new recruits she’d tell them to “imagine you needed a life saving operation, who could help you?”
It may seem innocuous on the surface, however it’s far from innocuous.
She admitted to never sell the course, but the relationship between the recruit and her – in other words a fake friendship. Lots of lonely people.
I 1/2 agree with what you say, some definite manipulation going on.
Imagine you need a life saving operation, who will help you?
Not Sarah, But Danielle was sure there for Sally! Guess Danielle took her at her word?
Too bad Sarah didn’t return the favor and advocate for Danielle instead she punished her to the max.
Danielle gave Sally a life-saving operation?
Sally has told her story.
You didn’t answer the question. Danielle gave Sally a life-saving operation?
And isn’t Sally no longer alive?
Sounds like you’re just making s*** up now
9 41
I don’t pretend to know Sally’s status now, and I personally believe people have a right to privacy, especially medical, if you feel so inclined go back in Frank’s archives when Sally was cured around 2017., she did a go fund me and it was Very Aggressive Cancer. She had chemo etc. Danielle assisted her in the aftermath of all that poison in her system which helped her physically and mentally!
Six years later I wish well but I don’t know how she is now.
Sally died.
Frank-
Thanks for letting me know Sally died when I was shitting on Brink.
I wouldn’t have been so hard on the guy.
Then again he’s a schmuck and a total whacky asshole…….
That was far from innocuous and it didn’t have to be that way.
I am very sorry to hear Sally passed.
She seemed like a lovely lady.
Was this recently?
Early this year
Now I understand the deep hurt, the relationship she WAS selling.
Wrong from the start.
But she expects her victims to bow down to her..
Ask Nicki Clyne about Mark and Sarah.
Mark and Sarah manipulated her into staying in NXIVM.
Mark and Sarah should own up
to their past.
And now they’re suing her! They are the definition of disloyal grifters. I wonder if Sarah even tried to get Nicki out when she left. I’ve never heard her talk about that.
She has talked about it. So has Nicki. Sarah even tried to call Nicki’s mother. Which was met with anger Both Mark and Sarah have expressed concern for many of the former dead-enders and those still loyal. They seem to try to balance revealing information and being transparent with also respecting people’s privacy. But they’ve mentioned that they’re in contact with many of the families. It really doesn’t matter what information is out there and readily available. If you’ve decided that you hate Mark and you hate Sarah nothing is going to change your opinion of them. And why should it? Who really cares what you think? They’re the ones who have to live their lives. And they all seem to be doing pretty well
Have you listened to her podcast? Sarah never gave up on Nicki. She worked through experts, friends and family and tried to talk to nicki multiple times over the years, but unfortunately Nicki was instructed to shun sara
7 PM
Yes she dreamed over & over of her & Nicki reuniting when Nick left Keith, but I guess that damn civil suit puts a damper on it huh?
If they were capable of manipulating Nicki then it stands to reason that Sarah and Mark might have been manipulated as well. By Lauren or Keith or Nancy.
At a certain point people have to take personal responsibility. Not just pick and choose who they think is a manipulated victim just cuz they like Battlestar Galactica LOL
Nicki plainly states s that she blames no one. To quote her , “for whatever reason I chose this path”
Personal responsibility, exactly!
@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@
And that’s part of the reason Sarah and Mark Vincente should insist on Clyne being dropped from the lawsuit!!!!!!!
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Have you read her book or listened to her podcast? She always takes full responsibility- just like she should. And was taught 🤓
Her mom is a good person.
So bad the apple rolled down a mountain.
Where is Nancy’s money and how much did she make cooking the books with Kathy Russell?!?!?
That’s the question!
I’m very disappointed in Sarah Edmonston. I stopped following her and listening to her podcast months ago after hearing he ask for money in a way that felt very manipulative. She even wanted to have a «name» for her followers.
I thought wow… this person hasn’t learn a thing.
I have huge red flags around her and I stay away from everything she does. Hypocrisy and entitlement are things I despise.
She asked for money 💰?
Yes. She asked for money.
From whom?
What for ?
She asked for money on her podcast
From who:
her listeners (mostly ex cult members who have been scammed and financially abused)
For what:
Living I guess. I guess she wants people to finance her hero life in stead of going back to work outside of the fame and cameras
9:32
Thats starting to sound like a
“Tammy Baker” or some of these extreme pastors who ask for money
This lacks any details or contacts. But if someone asks you for money on their podcast. You don’t have to give it to them. You’re acting victimized by what someone else is doing and you don’t even have to listen to their freaking podcast.
You guys like seek out Sarah on social media and scrutinize every move she makes and find a way to spin it into something sketchy in your opinion.
If you can post something right now where Sarah Edmondson is just straight up asking people to send her for money apropo to nothing I will be extremely impressed please do it.
Come on. Where is any recording or post where Sarah Edmondson is just like hey everybody send me money for no reason
Okay. So you’re saying the context is that Sarah who has a free podcast for people to listen to has set up something where people can voluntarily donate to keep the podcast going like almost every other podcast that exists?
And the people who listen to her podcast are definitely not only former cult members.
If you don’t want to donate, don’t donate. Keep listening to her podcast for free. Clearly you are a listener and that’s how you heard her asking for podcast support donations. On her podcast. That you listen to. For free. No one’s forcing you to give your money to anyone. You’re okay. Everything’s going to be okay
You can listen to a little bit cold for free because other people’s generous donations will pay for the episods.. Seems like a pretty good deal for you. Enjoy
The names are stupid but literally every podcast has names for their listeners. It’s not anything as big as you’re making it. It costs money to produce a podcast. You were listening for free. Which is awesome. And some people who have the means make a voluntary donation to support the continued production of the podcast. Which, again, you got to listen to for free. So you benefited from their generosity and you have a problem with that correct? It sounds like you made a good decision for yourself to stop listening. For free.
I thought the podcast had sponsors?
Like Ka Chava & another one?
Wow. Like you really listen to Sarah’s podcast. LOL like a lot. Like you’ve got the sponsors memorized. So keep listening for free. Yeah they have sponsors I’m sure. And I’m sure they ask for donations to keep the podcast going. The thing about donations is it’s completely voluntary. So you can keep listening to the podcast for free and monitoring their sponsorship and not have to pay one single penny. Why do you care what other people want to donate to a podcast? I just can’t even imagine mentally spending the time and energy on the things people on this comment thread or worrying about and fixating on. Maybe you should start a website where you monitor everybody and their various donations and make sure you agree with all of them. LOL or you could just let people donate wherever they want and you do the same or not. And mind your own business? That’s always a possibility
Don’t the sponsors foot the bill?
Like
I dont know man
Like
You’d think two sponsors would be enough to
Like foot the bill, wouldn’t you?
But like maybe that anonymous benefactor who sent her Another
Full Payment after the court awarded her payment, like maybe that gave her an idea
Like
How many times like can I get like paid for this bad ass brand?
I wonder if NY Times paid her too, to star in their paper? Lol
I’m just trying to figure out if “another one” is an actual sponsor?
Is this the same Christine that once had Keith as a boyfriend many moons ago?
I will say this:
People give a lot of criticism to Sarah Edmonston and cut a lot of slack to Vicente.
That guy seems to be very talented in the art of manipulating things from under.
When we think about it, he’s probably as rich as Edmonston, he’s probably responsible for as much if not more damage in the expansion of NXIVM… he’s just as equally if not more on the « look at me, I’m your new hero » stage.
Why are people so smooth on him?
I’m not!
I think a great question would be:
Why does it matter that Sarah Edmonston is rich. Why do we feel the need to bring it up and in a way «use it against her ».
And I think the answer is: because it always looks like she’s hiding something… Like she’s kind of playing us. Seeing he play the « I sacrificed so much for the cause» card sounds unfair. She acts like she’s a generous and selfless person yet no one believes it. This is why her richness comes up in an article.
She seems like she’s a fraud and, more and more people are gonna want to expose her. If I was a person who’s life had been destroyed by her and her work, I’d definitely want to see her being exposed.
A NXIVM perpetrator wanting to be a NXIVM hero without being transparent about what she actually won and got from it all?
No today Sarah. Not today.
I would not consider Sarah to be from “rags”. I think her parents were loaded. A spoiled rotten little rich girl who chose to do absolutely nothing productive with her life.
Someone name ONE single productive thing Sarah has done:
—Someone name ONE single productive thing Sarah has done:
Given you a hard-on!
Did Sarah give “it” to him or did
Dylan Mulvaney?
She helped Frank. The end
NXIVM was a successful business model for Sarah E., which made her successful and rich through her center. Why can’t you call that productive? She advanced so far in the NXIVM racket that she got her own center in Vancouver.
Shared her ‘own’ centre with Mark Vicente. I would imagine that means they split the bills? And we know he was Raniere’s #1 guy!
Totally unconscionable that Nancy Salesman be dropped from the civil suit same as some Mexicans.
😤😔😤
She might be used as a witness
To what.
How they manipulated everyone else?
Sarah Edmonson had to pay for her ESP own center. And she took a huge financial hit when it closed quickly and suddenly because of Sarah leaving due to what she found out about Keith/DOS
A million dollars over a decade is really not that much money to earn.
And it wouldn’t make you a millionaire. It would average out to about $200,000 a year before taxes.
Which again, isn’t an enormous amount of money for a lot of people
It’s still not an executive success program by any measure LOL
A final thought is that Sarah made herself a success if she made any money during her time in the cult. She was a good salesperson. She’s a capitalist. Now and then. That’s no reason to shame anybody
Hmm
What year did she purchase her condo?
Anonymous-
The question isn’t how Sarah makes her money!!!!!!
The question is WTF does Nippy do for work?
Is he a lifeguard, a concierge, cocktail waitress, artist’s model, bathroom attendant, or a studly shlep?
Let’s lay-off of Sarah and examine dippy-Nippy!
Nippy is a stay at home mom.
LMAO
Perhaps Sarah E. was the sole breadwinner in her household. Who begrudged her the income she simply needed to support her husband financially?
200k certainly Isn’t your average salary unless your born into money.
Sarah shared expenses with Mark , she didn’t foot the entire bill.
Yes. And if they were making so much money running the center why would they shut it down?
If they didn’t care about what Keith was doing to people? Everyone wants it to be all the things at once.
Mark and Sarah were allegedly rolling around in their millions of dollars from their highly lucrative ESP center and then they shut it down.
The argument that they were making a lot of money actually makes them look better, because they were willing to end that revenue stream and take a loss on what they had invested in their ESP center when it became clear that it was the right thing to do.
Sarah even refunded money. Which is seen being talked about in the second season of The Vow.
Nancy Salzman complained about Sarah refunding students money.
Nancy stated, “that wasn’t her money to give back”. So that’s interesting. How much of the money the center made even went directly to Mark and Sarah?
More importantly. Who really cares? It’s such a tired topic. They were in a cult. They recruited people. They realized that something nefarious and malevolent was happening. They left the cult. They blew up their lives. They put themselves at great risk. No one knew for sure what would happen – if Keith was ever even going to be prosecuted let alone convicted.
And without their contribution to bringing down Keith he would still be in Albany running a slavery ring.
Are they perfect people? No.what does it even matter in the big scheme of things? So they made some money during their many working years in Nxivm. And they also lost a big chunk of their life in the cult. And during the investigation and trial.
If you don’t like Mark or Sarah ignore them. Don’t listen to their podcasts. It’s not hard. You simply do nothing. And then you don’t hear their podcasts LOL
Mark & Sarah shut it down due to advance knowledge of FBI investigation. PERIOD. It was a GREATER RISK to them to be thrown in JAIL .PERIOD.
The money she returned wasn’t actually hers either. PERIOD.
Hey dip shit. Mark and Sarah BROUGHT this case to the FEDS. Jesus Christ. Do your homework 😭
Not all caps?! I heard that if someone capitalizes all the letters in the word it automatically means they’re a liar. LOL period. Lol
Okay so then if the money wasn’t Mark and Sarah’s then maybe they didn’t make all that much money? You got to pick a lane.
What does it matter?!
Clearly you don’t like them. Big deal. Maybe they don’t like you either?
What do you care how much money another person is making in their life? Or how much they previously made?
It wasn’t illegal to sell self-help classes. Idiotic? Maybe. A waste of money? In my opinion definitely. But not illegal.
Frank makes/has made money off of reporting on ESP/Nxivm/Keith. And he was employed by Bronfmans.
Who cares?! It’s such a ridiculous thing to focus on when a guy was creating child sexual abuse materials and now he’s in prison and cannot hurt anymore underage girls.
9:14
Think your confusing them with Kristen Keefe who brought to FBI radar.
I don’t know if she’s a millionaire. If I recall correctly she stated that some anonymous benefactor paid for her brand to be removed. If she was rich, she could have paid the operation herself. But if she really owns that condo, maybe she is a millionaire. But she probably has a mortgage on it.
Kind of odd since the court ordered Raniere to pay 2500. 00 for that why would she accept a donation then?
And then sue to boot.
3x a Lady that Sarah is !
Maybe she wanted to get a better job done? And it cost more than the minimum amount everyone was awarded? Maybe Sarah’s removal had complications? Or maybe she wanted to get some follow up surgery. Getting rid of that kind of scarring isn’t a one and done deal. You’re always going to have a scar and you might want to even reduce that scar over time
Or maybe she wanted a tummy tuck after 2nd baby?
Mederna doesn’t cost that much nor does the shot a plastic surgeon can give you to reduce the scar immediately 😉
Its a shot for a keloid and I highly doubt it costs 2500$
Yup, runs about $300.00
LOL, Tummy Tuck could have flapped right over it ~ TWO for the price of one & DONE!
Hollywood would know this, in advance, js
Sarah E. is a woman who will accept any dollar awarded to her in court. The 2.5 grand was awarded for surgical removal of the branding. Already forgotten?
Like I said , ” 3x a Lady” ^
1)Court awarded once 2.5k
2)Accepted a strangers donation for removal by her own admission.
3 ) Suing the woman she literally career canceled even though she thanked her for the bad ass brand.
Thats all folks!
Sarah definitely did not ask to be branded with Keith’s initials. If you participate in branding somebody’s snatch with a secret shared boyfriend’s initials they’re going to be pretty upset when they find out. That shouldn’t be a surprise.
Based on these comments it’s become increasingly obvious this is once again people who are bitter about the civil suit and not really anyone who actually cares about Sarah giving a TED talk or having a podcast
It’s always about the civil suit.
Gee. Who would be that upset about the civil suit?
9:49
ANSWER:
BOTH parties!
It has been speculated here on FR that Nancy Salzman’s net worth around the time of sentencing was $0-5 million. Even after the various forfeitures, she clearly had the means to satisfy the court-ordered $150k fine. Methinks she might be the other NXIVM millionaire. But now that she’s been dropped from Glazer’s civil suit, she won’t be required to disclose assets. She’s pretty good at hiding things. Practice makes Prefect.
You mean practice makes prefect 😉
Yes practice makes prefect!
M. Novak, Agree about Nan, and see what you did there with ‘practice makes prefect’ -nice!
(the incorrect correction even funnier but for different reasons…)
Any grand masters above Keith and Nancy?
Re “Has NXIVM helped anyone become a millionaire? Reader says there is one”
I add there are definitely two. I’ll add Mark Vicente, who during his time in NXIVM, made it to millionaire. I don’t know his net worth. But he would never admit it. Vicente was not as unsuccessful in making money as it seems.
Made enough to move to Portugal
You’re both claiming that you don’t know Mark’s net worth but you also do know he made a million dollars. It sounds like you really have no idea what you’re talking about, but so what if he did make money?
That was the entire premise of the organization. It was right in their mission statement that they all intended to control as much money as possible because it would be more ethical.
The entire Nxivm cult was a multi-level marketing scheme and you were rewarded for bringing people in and making money off of them why is that stoll a surprise to anybody?
It’s one of the few things the organization was upfront about. Whether you’re selling Lululemon ugly stretch pants, those disgusting oils certain moms love to use for pretendmedicine, or these lame ass executive success classes – they’re all trying to make money.
That is the point. It was right there out in the open – everybody is here trying to make more money in their life and if its thru Nxivm the (strioed).path to it is to enroll other people so the cult of Keith could grow and the world could become more ethical.
The last part is pretty funny, of course, but it’s just another multi-level marketing scheme. Go cry or communist tears to all the people selling overpriced candles, exercise programs, and miracle elixirs that cure covid. Lol
Its crazy and Ironic to read that:
It sounds totally brainwashed…
Today I learned something I didn’t know existed: “Communist Tears.” Just fantastic. Are there also capitalist tears when business is simply miserable?
Addendum:
Mark Vicente was very close to Keith’s side. Not only as his personal photographer and filmmaker. Mark was Keith’s designated successor in the criminal NXIVM organization. Why wouldn’t Keith allow someone like Vicente to have a high income, much higher than their current cost of living? Mark certainly wasn’t living paycheck to paycheck. And, seeing that Nancy eventually earned very well too, one can assume that it was just more or much more for Mark. Misogynist Keith certainly didn’t give Nancy that much income, despite the fact that she was a coconspirator from the very beginning. And Vicente was in Keith’s favor because Mark was to be his successor and secondly because he is a man. Why would Mark want to be Keith’s successor if it wasn’t financially rewarding and he didn’t feel anything from Executive Success if NXIVM wasn’t going to make him rich, just what NXIVM promised its followers and course participants?
What about Kim Constable?
Faked Success!
She did paid marketing.
Made nothing!
Husband foot the bill!
Ot was said Barbara Jesse did well for herself?