Here is some of the wit and wisdom of Kevin culled from comments he made.
My point is simple, yet misunderstood.
If everything that NXIVM/ESP did is bad, evil, crooked and horrible, with nothing good having ever come from it, fine.
But if that’s the position you take, you can’t give a pass to the two biggest players in the whole affair, who recruited more people together than everyone else, who profited while they were in and have continued to profit after getting out.
But giving these two a pass, while maintaining everyone else in the group, who had none of the authority or rank they had, is evil and deserves a life of misery and heartache, is something I can’t accept.
Sarah Should Not Sue
I’m not arguing Sarah Edmondson should be sued.
I’m arguing that she has no business suing others for things that she herself did to the people she’s suing. Sarah has no business pointing fingers at people she outranked – and recruited.
If she wants to sue Raniere, the Salzmans, the Bronfmans, fine.
But she needs to leave these other women alone. She owes them an apology, not the other way around.
Reverse Heirarchy of Blame
Brandon Porter and Danielle Roberts are defendants in a lawsuit in which Mark Vicente and Sarah Edmondson are plaintiffs. That is nuts. Scapegoating and passing the blame in it’s dirtiest, grimiest form.
I think Dr. Danielle Roberts and Dr. Brandon Porter are paying disproportionately for their involvement in NXIVM.
Especially compared to others who had much more power and influence, but have not only suffered no consequences, but are also seen as victims. They are lead plaintiffs in a case in which they are suing people for things that they themselves encouraged and profited from for over 12 years.
Mark and Sarah owned, operated, managed, directed, recruited for, and profited from the two largest NXIVM/ESP centers in North America.
They recruited more people than most other recruiters put together. They were the face of the organization for 12 years. They continue to profit to this day.
People in their down-lines include those they are suing. People who played small roles in NXIVM and had little to no managerial authority have been made into scapegoats for what the bigger players did.
Edmondson should be held to the same standards as the Dossier women. She outranked each of them by a country mile in NXIVM, the parent organization.
Allison and Nicki were recruited into NXIVM via the Sarah-Mark-owned Vancouver Center.
Danielle Roberts had no managerial or executive authority in NXIVM outside of her exo/eso organization, never linked to any wrongdoing.
Dr. Brandon Poter showed a 30-something year-old woman clips from a movie I was shown in my public school as a 14-year-old.
Allison is being punished. Nicki and Danielle, while not charged with crimes, have been punished. But these high-ranking recruiters who made money off of them and outranked them are off limits to criticism.
How could Sarah Edmondson have not known about the organization she ran and made money from for over a decade?
Read the civil lawsuit. Much is made of the pyramid structure of the organization and the unpaid labor. I’m sure the two people who owned the two biggest centers in North America benefited from that.
Sarah became the company’s head recruiter. She gave EMs without a license to practice psychology.
But she’s the good guy. We should focus instead on that wicked Battlestar actress and the doctor, who had no managerial authority in the organization, who danced outside a prison a handful of times.
I believe there are real victims of Keith Raniere, and they deserve compensation for what they went through, as long as they can prove it.
Also, what is 10C?
It was bad when we knew that Allison and Nicki were involved. But when Nicki revealed Sarah was also part of 10C, and outranked the two other women, everyone suddenly forgot what 10C was.
Give Danielle a Chance
Danielle has no criminal record and was well liked by her patients, with high praise from mentors and other doctors.
We’re supposed to see her as a villainous person, and then give a complete pass to two of the most prominent people in the organization.
Not allowing Danielle to practice medicine for something that happened in her personal life is wrong.
I don’t think she’s the person she’s been made out to be. Her punishment and suffering are way out of proportion to her role in the organization.
I think there’s more to gain from listening to her than stigmatizing her.
Danielle doesn’t see it as a cult. Maybe she knows something we don’t. Or maybe she is missing pieces of information that could change her mind.
Never in NXIVM
I am not a “Keith loyalist.”
I have no affiliation with NXIVM. I’ve never taken a class. I wish Allison had never been involved in this, or Kristin Kreuk either. Or Nicki Clyne, or Danielle Robeets, who both seem like nice people.
I’ve repeatedly said Raniere hurt girls dating back to before I was born, and that if NYS wasn’t such a trash place, none of this would have happened.
Could She Give Consent?
Michele Hatchette says Nicole (and I’m paraphrasing) was into kink and requested the sexual experience she had with Raniere, the one where she was blindfolded and tied up.
Michele, please provide more information on whether Nicole gave consent, how she gave consent, and how the women under Allison could give consent to the nude photos sent to Raniere.
I believe the allegations against Raniere, but do not support stigmatizing and scapegoating women who may have had positive experiences with him or have a different perspective.
Which makes me unpopular with both sides, since I see a lot of gray where everyone else sees black and white.
Erika Durance Was Nice
Erica Durance was nice. I didn’t like her taking shots at Allison on a podcast recently, but otherwise, she never caused trouble for anyone.
If you’re one of those people who used to go on message boards and say horrible things about the cast, know this; they weren’t paying attention to it. The network had people who monitored those boards to ensure the actors were safe.
The cast got along, on set and off. There was never an Allison/Erica feud.
Allison benefited from Erica being there, and vice versa.
What Forced Labor?
What are some other examples of forced labor that members were forced to participate in, where they were not compensated?
If Dr. Danielle Roberts provided medical care for some sick women and wasn’t paid, was that forced labor? Or did she volunteer? What’s the difference between the two? Why would providing medical care be seen as volunteer work, and transcribing an interview as forced labor, when medical care is clearly the more important service?
Not saying forced labor didn’t happen. But what was it?
Nicole transcribing interviews can’t be the only example the government has of forced labor.
Because if it is, it opens up a big can of worms for many companies that make their employees do things off hours in the name of volunteering that the employees generally aren’t compensated for.
Forced Labor for The Big Give
Ever hear of The Big Give?
It’s a massive volunteer competition where companies and government agencies compete over two months, in the summer when the weather is most brutal, after work, before work, and on weekends, to see who can volunteer the most and perform the highest impact volunteer work.
The team that loses gets nothing.
The winning team gets a check that goes to the company.
Employees, who do the heavy lifting, whether their team won or lost, get nothing. Maybe a slice of pizza and a bottle of water to hold them over in between sweatshop sessions.
If transcribing an interview for a memorial for Pam Cafritz for four hours gets you $413K, what should Big Give laborers get for their time and labor?
Full disclosure, my team won five years in a row from 2015-19.
Total number of hours donated = 800.
Total winnings toward the agency (my then Squadron at Holloman AFB)= $6K.
Amount of winnings spent on teams that did the work= unsure of dollar total, but one time we did go bowling, and they threw in a soda and fries.
Mr. Hutz, um, I mean Glazer, do I have a case?
I’m a dude, so no one would care much, but half the workers were pretty girls. Throw in some sniffles about how their backs hurt, and maybe we’ve got something here.