The abortions and what they signify are central to the entire NXIVM case.
Procreation of the prized Avatar baby – Keith’s world-savior successor, and repressed competition among the women over that highest honor, motivated much of the abusive activity that went on. IMO.
I know, for example, Pam Cafritz’s failure to cure her disintegrations (in Keith’s estimation), to be a worthy Avatar vessel, was used to justify her multiple abortions. Her hope to posthumously bear the true Avatar may have been why she willed her ovaries to Keith.
Toni Natalie once told me that Nancy and Keith tried to lure her back to the fold on the same promise though she was medically unable to bear a child.
Kristin Snyder was convinced she was and, indeed, may have been impregnated by Keith upon her disappearance and there’s strong evidence my sister Gina had an abortion arranged by NX leaders within months prior to her death.
Rosa Laura Junco offered her virgin daughter to Keith for this reason and reportedly imported over a dozen LeBaron virgins to Albany when her own daughter opted out.
Lauren Salzman testified that she joined DOS bc Keith finally agreed to allow her to bear his child after forcing prior abortions on her.
DOS slaves were branded with KAR’s monogram directly atop their ovaries.
These facts are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to how the drive and power of procreation was abused and used within NXIVM to manipulate the entire community. Especially the psyche’s of these women in their lost child bearing years.
I don’t see how the prosecution could have avoided the abortion topic if they tried and neither, in fact, could the defense team that – as Clav points out – opened the door to it with their “harmless playboy” cover story.
That one, btw, the idea Keith was just another lyin’, cheatin’ girl gamer, was what blindsided me to the reality of KAR’s ghastly destructiveness for many years prior to Gina’s death, myself.
What is a LeBaron virgin?
BG on the LeBaron clan. It’s been reported that a dozen or so “virgin” teen girls were trafficked by NX leaders from Chihuahua, MX to Albany, NY to be “mentored” by KAR, ET AL circa 2014.
More recently, in November 2019, while I was working in-house with FR, word came that a Caravan of LeBaron’s – whom Kristin Keefe is, btw, long acquainted with — were ambushed and brutally murdered in Mexico. Frank broke the story that made world news headlines.
I do find that some of this LeBaron connection to NXIVM is germane to my own sister’s story (Gina and I were reared Mormon on our Dad’s side. Mom was Italian Catholic, etc.). Gina tried to convert Keith to Mormonism at one point and, of course, he twisted it all up on her with this Luciferian B.S. which is copied from Mormon doctrine about “Lucifer and The fall of man” — itself prolly based on Milton.
I’ve written some about the topic here on FR and it was broached in the yet-to-be produced segments of “Lost Women…”
Thank you for your hard won insight, Heidi—your intelligence is always worth close attention. I agree that grave harm was done through the manipulation of these women’s ‘drive and power of procreation’.
Glad to, NFW. Same to you and any with a grave interest in digging up the whole truth and nothing but.
Hello, Frank. When are you going to share your letter of support for Allison like you promised you would? Where is your long-promised article saying your previous accusations that Allison and Nicki’s marriage was a fraud were incorrect? Where is your long-promised interview with Nicki Clyne that you said would change the minds of many? I have been waiting a long time for these. Maybe you are busy trying to stay out of prison with your trial which I can see is very scary for you, but if you can post about the woes of convicted felons like Mr. Roger Stone and Mic Flynn which are of little interest to those of us who are here for your NXIVM, why do you squat on these long-promised items of great interest when you obviously have time to write about lesser items.
And can you please contact all of your NXIVM friends like, Nicki Clyne, Danielle Roberts, Mark Vicente, Bonnie Piesse, Catherine Oxenberg, India Oxenberg, Sarah Edmondson, Anthony Ames, Kristin Keefe, Karen Unterreiner, Barbara Bouchey, and Susan Dones and all the others to see who has or is sending letters of support for Allison? No mean offending you and the tortured Heidi Hutch, but I am sure letters coming from people who actually know Allison will have a much more favorable influence than something written by people who never spent anytime with Allison and do not know her at all.
I agree that it’s nigh time for Allison’s alleged former friends, including her alleged wife, to come forward and some at least meager show of support for her.
I can only – and can’t help but – compare it to what they put my sister, Gina, through, which she did not survive. And, yes, to a much lesser extent under far different circumstances, some of Gina’s same tormentors have visited their same torment methods on me and continue to do so, to this day!
A few days ago a gas station cashier told me some kid just offered him $20 to put my gas on the ominous pump #7 instead of #4, and that kinda crap and far worse (at least it wasn’t a death threat against me or my family, as usual circa 2018 — guess I got a Covid break there), etc.
I also agree that Frank’s been mentally hi-jacked due to his criminal case and his loyalty to certain very dubious, super scary “friends.”
This gas pump thing? It reminds me of Toni Natalie’s dead dog. And, Toni Natalie’s dead dog reminds me of these sections from the patent titled: “Determination of whether a luciferian can be rehabilitated”.
Here is, apparently, a good way to elicit a tactile response from a potential luciferian:
(0038) Examples of the tactile stimulus 18 include, inter alia, touching a dead person or dead animal.
The document also mentions the word “unobvious” 14 times. Both first and second stimulus can be “unobvious”.
8. The method of claim 1 wherein said first stimulus is obvious or unobvious.
9. The method of claim 1 wherein said second stimulus is obvious or unobvious.
It then goes on to describe some kind of weird trickery! I don’t even know what to call it? Just bad acting, maybe?
21. For example, unobvious test stimuli may be subliminal audio or video signals, a slamming door, a person tripping on a sidewalk while visible to a subject through an outside window, or any other stimuli that may be administered to a subject without the subject’s recognition that the stimuli is part of a test.
(0074) An example of an unobvious stimulus may be an open page of a magazine showing a successful charity auction or a newspaper clipping hanging on a wall that praises an employee’s successful performance. An example of an unobvious stimulus may be a scene in a doorway where a person smiles at an individual and then frowns at the individual as the individual departs from the presence of the person. An example of an unobvious stimulus may be a scene through a window of a person intentionally stepping on papers dropped by another.
BINGO, my2cents! This type of “Luciferian test” is exactly what they do in their street theatre or gaslighting routines.
It’s no different than the “Let’s cut the witch and see if she bleeds or not” activities of the 15th-century witch trials in England.
NXIVM and Scientology both do it, and in some cases with the cooperation of some police or other govt. agency (like CPS or ICE, wherever they have purchased clout, under the auspices of a legit investigation).
Thanks for posting. Forgot that existed.
“something written by people who never spent anytime with Allison and do not know her at all.”
Heather worked for Allison.
What does Heather have to say about Allison?
“She wrote, “I worked for Allison in 2007-2008. She and Kristin Kreuk sucked my (ex) gf and her two friends into NXIVM. I kept screaming cult, nobody listened, I left and moved back home. My ex is currently on a billboard in Hollywood bc she was in the Seduced doc.”
““None of this makes Allison any less garbage, I just like to make sure people who were in NXIVM aren’t viewed as harshly as people who were in DOS because it’s different levels of ick. And no, I haven’t been able to watch Smallville again either…” Heather
I don’t recall any evidence that Lauren Salzman had abortions.
Wouldn’t be surprised if that evidence falls under HIPAA as a private medical procedure.
– Heidi (again with the tech problems)
You are allowed to reveal your own medical records. A person can also give another person permission to access their medical records.
One can also make the decision to reveal medical information in a court of law. There are also court cases where medical records can be subpoenaed. Just like DNA etc.
Daniela’s testimony about abortions implicates several women including Lauren.
Yes, thank you. My ‘knowledge’ is mostly hearsay about the extent of it and I’ve seen some evidence but the testimony I read does confirm it as you say. I hesitate to talk about the Mexican girls sometimes and feel for the fact that it must be very difficult to live with this type of stigma in their predominantly Catholic culture in Mexico.
Oh, I see now. I figured you were talking about the Mexican sisters but I wasn’t sure. I think I get it now, though. It’s almost shameful to say out loud even if you weren’t involved. That older man was having sex with three young sisters and even had one locked in room. It’s so horrible I didn’t even make the connection to the Mexican Catholicism.
Their culture already makes them more vulnerable to scorn and stigma as women. Also made them more vulnerable, easier prey for Keith and Nancy to begin with. i also think they always planned to hold their immigration status over their heads, knew they could control the Mexicans with that.
What a Boon the Boone brothers brought to Albany back in 2000 when they conned the Mexican Elite families into joining ESP. I think it started with then Mexican President Vincente Fox’s daughter whom my sister met.
“Procreation of the prized Avatar baby – Keith’s world-savior successor, and repressed competition among the women over that highest honor, motivated much of the abusive activity that went on.”
So that is a sentence that exists but shouldn’t. Man, the more you learn, the more you wonder how so many people missed the obvious red flags. Oh wait, we have 75 million in the US alone who cannot see the signs of extreme narcissism and psychopathic behavior so sadly inability to recognize it is a common problem.
So for those that read the trial transcripts, was the “Avatar baby” brought up in court at all? Heidi’s argument, while disturbing, is solid. But if not brought up in the trial, then that theory doesn’t apply.
It does bring some clarity to some of his behavior though. Well, as much as possible since I am incapable of understanding how a psychopath thinks beyond knowing they truly and deeply believe they are the most important person in the world and yes the universe truly should revolve around them at all times and when it doesn’t steps must be taken to return focus where it belongs.
Yes, Erasend, I agree that most normal brains can’t begin to comprehend the shockingly reprehensible thoughts and motives of a psychopath of KAR’s caliber.
That’s one of the Psycho’s most powerful, secret weapons. Keith acknowledges this in his “Sympathy for the Devil” essays coauthored by Ivy Nevares, published in Mexico and reprinted here on FR.
There are some folks here on FR who were close to Keith – before he was so well shielded by his human masks, political clout and funny money – who have had time to mentally digest the facts unclouded by ulterior motives. Those people have offered some valuable, often overlooked or stifled insights.
For example, “L” – whose anecdotes and insights are invaluable – commented a couple of times on the bizarre origins of Keith’s Vulva photo collection – the absurd “Medical Studies” Notebook. (I’ll let her expound if she’s recovered from Bangkok’s latest FR assault.)
But as other close-in commenters who personally knew Keith have noted in so many words:
Break out the brain bleach before you try to go there, baby. (I’ve come to pity any homicide or pedophile detective who isn’t a natural-born narcissist able to objectively grasp the meaning of such clues to psychotic acts.)
– Heidi (having tech issues on the name line)
“I’ll let her expound if she’s recovered from Bangkok’s latest FR assault.” – Sorry to disappoint the Bangerman; I didn’t even notice him. I don’t bother reading much of him. I don’t generally read or comment unless I see an opportunity to shed some light that might help clarify things for KR’s victims. I’m doubtful many of them are still reading.
The Avatar Baby was, like many of KR’s plot lines, just a long time refinement of a manipulation tool. He was already talking about needing to ensure the mother of his child was the correct one back when I knew him – that his future child would be the only one intelligent enough to understand him. The implication, of course, was that he thought I might be the one intelligent and talented enough for that – he just wasn’t ready for marriage at that age. At the time, I thought we were exclusive. From my current vantage point, I’m now sure there were other women he was plying with the same nonsense at that time. And I’m sure Karen U was among those women.
Hope all is well with you, Heidi.
Thanks for chiming in with that gem, “L”. It all fits so well with exactly what I recall and how what it’s, so sadly, become. I don’t know if any of our truthful insights are helping anyone still entrapped but do hope so, too. I’m hanging in there, counting the blessings with the blows. How are you, these days?
More from the patent on “how to determine a luciferian” … The summary is the worst.
(I wonder if Mark Vicente has read it? Its exactly like that movie plot he talked about in the documentary.)
(0006) The present invention provides an objective and accurate capability for determining whether a Luciferian may be rehabilitated. A Luciferian is a person, who commits destructive acts. A Luciferian is a type of sociopath. He has severe behavioral problems that are masked by good psychological adjustment. He appears on the outside to be sane but he is not. A Luciferian is fundamentally unhappy and feels enmity toward others but has learned that, for him, pleasure can be had from achieving his selfish desires such as destroying material objects or relationships, and causing others pain, distress, or unhappiness. A Luciferian realizes his desires by any means—without consideration for others and without remorse. A Luciferian is a person lacking in conscience and loyalty to others. He commonly employs manipulation and deceit to achieve his desired end and is therefore capable of acts that could be highly destructive to those that interact with him. A Luciferian, therefore, typically experiences pleasure or gratification in situations where “normal” people would be repulsed or disturbed.
Surreal. The mind of a lunatic.
I hope Vicente puts out a movie or something breaking down this aspect of Keith. Keith loved to (secretly) teach about himself, and he tried to document everything about himself. If Mark or somebody could dissect it all, and put together a creepy story about the inner workings of Keith’s mind… On second thought, maybe not a good idea…
I always thought the teachings of NXIVM that gave the most value, were the ones talking about “bad” people (Keith teaching about himself). He shared intimate knowledge and taught how to spot and stop bad guys (like himself). I believe he held nothing back in these courses because he enjoyed this game of nobody knowing who he really was.
Am appreciating your thoughts, your comments more and more, erasend. You and Ice-nine bring a much needed rational balance to this report, at least you don’t seem particularly blinded by a need to promote yourselves—kind of pointless on a comment board where even those not anon are still effectively, anon—or this psychopathic brand of playground gang politics supposed to represent our democratic interest—hats off and thanks once again.
He doesn’t look like Brad Pitt and he can’t move like a Rockstar. Danged if I know how he pulled it off unless it was all about numbers and then netting the weakest and most susceptible.
They most certainly were, and many remain, mind-conditioned. In addition to observing my sister’s “breaking” and experiencing their repeated attempts to do the same to me, victims have repeatedly described the mind-control methods used on them — that Nancy and Keith (chiefly) turned into a patentable scientific formula.
(Bet you can get a discount on that EEG equipment Porter rigged the girls up to if you’re all that interested in a branded harem, Snorlax. Seems to have lasting effects even after you’re locked up in prison, judging from “the Dossier’s” — just think if Keith had settled for getting prosecuted by the State (like he shoulda been long ago) not the Feds, he might be getting that conjugal blow job instead of the ass pounding he’s got coming if he ain’t had it yet!
Btw, ANYONE is or can be made vulnerable to mind conditioning — starts with inducing FEAR and look right where it’s led a huge cult of QAnon loonies who really think all democrats drink baby blood.
It’s a numbers game.
Heidi, I am sorry for what happened to Gina.
But would the world be better off with lots of “little Keiths” running around?
Likewise, Jeffrey Epstein owned the 20,000 acre Zorro Ranch in New Mexico.
Supposedly, Epstein wanted to spread his seed around using the Zorro Ranch as a breeding farm.
We should be thankful that the world is not filled with “little Jeffrey Epsteins.”
How do we know it never happened, Shadow? Remember the “Boys from Brazil?”
Heidi & Claviger-
I kinda of agree with both of you. I think Heidi is right of the abortions are germane to the NXIVM story, but as far as the criminal case the mentioning of the abortions are gratuitous.
One of the prosecutors, in Raniere’s trial AG Moira, has had a history of bringing up prejudicial topics and language at trial. In one criminal proceeding, she actually
kept saying that the defendant was in the mafia, even though the judge chastised her and the criminal case had nothing to do with the mafia. The defendant in that case was Italian and otherwise had nothing to do with the mafia.
Poor Lauren Salzman got stuck with a wardrobe filled with maternity clothes because she was promised a baby.
I think Pyriel or Nataska pointed this out.
Appreciate your comment, have you researched the case and the defendant’s bg thoroughly re: Moira Penza?
There are many other possible explanations for why the defendant could have had a mafia connection that the Judge was determined not to let in — not to burst your bubble but there is some corruption out there in the justice jungle, kiddo.
Also, citing one case does not make a case to substantiate your suspicions. If she’d accused a few more Italian defendants of the same in unrelated cases and they certainly had no mafia connection …maybe then I’d say she’s got it in for Guineas.
So is Frank in the mafia? He’s Italian and occasionally, he wears a black-hat. Black hats are notoriously worn by bad-guys in westerns.
“Remember the “Boys from Brazil?” Flowers
Here it is!
The Boys From Brazil 1978 (Laurence Olivier – Gregory Peck) HD
Since you keep bringing it up, Shadow, there are only two major, real links to Epstein and NX that I can ascertain and both are copycat coverup efforts:
1. I believe the well-documented, highly photographed Necker Island soiree – attended by a select group of Oceanographer scientists, Hollywood and (WB Network) Vancouver royalty, Mexican Elites, and Bronfman heiresses — was a set-up arranged by Keith and Nancy (chiefly) to copycat Epstein and Maxwell’s success in getting away with their crimes – by tainting the reputations of anyone who appeared to be associated with them and their crimes.
Even now, the mere appearance on Epstein’s Island or the taking of a jet ride on the “Lolita Express” can taint the most sterling reputation to the degree that Maxwell’s testimony and records are sealed from public view.
A decade prior to the NXIVM Necker Island assemblage, Epstein and Maxwell managed to weasel out of potentially severe criminal charges through a similar ploy involving entrapment and, let’s say, image sextortion of VIPs.
2. There is also, indeed, a comparison between how the first botched Epstein prosecution was handled by the Feds and the prosecutions NOT happening right now in the NXIVM case.
I believe it is for the same reason that the NDNY has not (yet) taken up the child molestation charges referred to them by EDNY or charged any defendants for crimes that allegedly occurred in the NDNY. VIPs were involved.
Remember, Donald Trump appointed the chief prosecutor, Mr. Acosta, in Epstein’s first case to his Cabinet for one clue.
The failure of the “Florida” DOJ (as if the main DOJ has no say) to charge Maxwell at all and Epstein with only abetting prostitution in the ’90s came back to bite ’em in the ass.
I hope I live to see the day that happens in the NX case.
There are more ties between Epstein and NXIVM than you might think.
India Oxenberg, who was in NXIVM DOS, has an aunt named Christina Oxenberg.
Christina Oxenberg is a friend of Ghislaine Maxwell. Epstein’s pimp.
Epstein’s version of Allison Mack.
Socialite Christina Oxenberg tells all about Ghislaine Maxwell to the FBI Daily Mail Online
There are also plenty of ties between Epstein, Trump, and Clinton.
Did it ever cross your mind that the real conspiracy is that all of these assholes are playing us……Including Trump?
Or is that too outlandish for you?
I guess Shivani isn’t Christina Oxenberg, then? Lol. Age and politics are off. Not surprised she knew Maxwell as a Manhattan social climber colleague. Good she’s willing to help the FBI nail Maxwell but the fine print is brutal on the subtitles.
Speaking of, is Shivani O.K.? Last I read there was an alleged crack up over a sneak nunchuk attack from behind or something.
‘is Shivani O.K.? ‘
probably deserves its own post!
Thank you so much.
How interestingly bilious. Are you really this green? Thank you for the salient reminders. Thanks ever so.
Try a Little Tenderness
Oh, she may be weary
Them young girls they do get wearied
Wearing that same old shaggy dress, yeah yeah
But when she gets weary
Try a little tenderness.
Otis Redding. (Oh yes.)
Songwriters: Jimmy Campbell, Reg Connelly, Harry M. Woods