Actors Jennifer Aniston and Gerard Butler attended a Nxivm class at one time. I remember hearing about it several years ago.
The two apparently liked the courses, at least a little, but were unwilling to make the commitment required of those who want to advance up the Stripe Path. They did not take more classes according to a source familiar with their attendance at the class.
In the docuseries Seduced, India Oxenberg said that high-ranking Nxivm members would mention how Aniston, Butler, and Sir Richard Branson took Nxivm classes, even if they didn’t become members. It was a recruitment tool to mention that the rich and famous took the course.
A recent report from New Idea Magazine seems to have enlarged Aniston’s role in Nxivm reporting that she “unwittingly dabbled” in the alleged “sex cult” NXIVM, alongside Gerald Butler and that she was “drawn in” by the organization, and “fought to get out.”
The two actors did not fight to get out. They simply never returned to take any more classes.
Karen Unterreiner spent some 40 years as one of Keith Raniere’s girlfriends, and 20 of those years in Nxivm. She met Raniere when she was 18  and finally left him when he was arrested in 2018.
Now she is making a few statements on Twitter as @KarenReiner59, joining the ranks of former girlfriends who are displeased with him.
Karen describes herself as a “Free person in training. Narcissist survivor. Learning to say ‘Hell no!'”
The narcissist she is referring to is Raniere.
This is an interesting observation. The judge did sentence him to life and there are some who think the sentence was not for his crimes of conviction but because the judge saw Raniere as a monster.
On October 12, Karen Tweeted this bit of advice: “Don’t give your heart to someone who doesn’t have one.”
It is peculiar, but a fair number of women who once gave their hearts to Keith, have turned against him, including Karen.
Among the women who had an intimate relationship with him and now condemn him are:
- Karen Unterreiner
- Kristin Keeffe
- Toni Natalie
- Lauren Salzman
- Barbara Bouchey
- Ivy Nevares
- Victoria [Jane Doe]
- India Oxenberg
It is expected that three other women – Nancy Salzman, Kathy Russell and Allison Mack – will also speak against him at their own sentencing. Allison has already done so in her allocution during her guilty plea hearing in 2019.
It is curious but of his four inner-inner circle members – the four women who were with him before Nxivm – Karen, Kristin Keeffe, Pam Cafritz and Barbara Jeske, two are dead from cancer and the other two, both cancer survivors, have turned against him.
Even women who knew him only a short while condemned him.
There is Rhiannon, Gina Melita, Marie Christine, “L”, Kathy, and another Jane Doe, who was once part of his harem.
That makes 20 women who were with him, who thought he was something special and later came to fear and despise and condemn him.
Having 20 people you once had sex with, all fearing you, wanting you in prison, many of them believing you destroyed their lives, is hard to achieve.
Here is an interesting graphic of Nxivm in Mexico found online:
It seems to be missing several important Mexican members, including First Line Masters in DOS: Rosa Laura Junco, Loreta Garza, Daniella Padilla, and Monica Duran. Counting Camila, of the eight First Line Masters, five of them were from Mexico.
Clare Bronfman Has Time on Her Hands
Clare Bronfman, Federal Prisoner #91010-053, has served one month and 20 days in prison. She has 79 months and 10 days to go. With good behavior, she can shave off a year of her sentence. She might also get to serve the last six months in a halfway house. That means she could be outside of the prison walls in 61 months or by Christmas 2025.
Currently, she is at the Brooklyn Metropolitan Detention Center awaiting placement in a permanent prison. She has asked to be placed in Danbury at the prison camp, a low security prison.
Sentencing Likely Postponed Until After New Year –
Allison Mack, Lauren Salzman, Nancy Salzman and Kathy Russell are still awaiting sentencing. Although the judge asked the prosecution to set up sentencing dates with the defense more than a month ago, no such dates have been set as of yet.
With the rise in coronavirus cases in New York – and the usual slowdown in courthouse activity during the last six weeks of the year – it seems unlikely that the sentencing will occur before the end of the year.
Lauren Salzman told a tale of abuse at the hands of Keith Raniere for days on the witness stand. When she was cross-examined by Marc Agnifilo, she grew increasingly distraught and Judge Nicholas G. Garaufis halted the cross-examination and scolded Agnifilo.
The judge said he was a human first and a judge second in explaining why he chose to excuse the witness.
Several observers commented that if Lauren was a man and started crying like that, the judge would not have stopped the cross-examination.
It is the defense attorney’s job to impeach a prosecution witness. However, if a witness cries loud enough, should she escape the intense scrutiny of cross-examination? Especially when the defendant in the case is, like Raniere was, facing life in prison.
But Lauren cried loud; she wailed and acted like she was going to have a hysterical fit when confronted with a challenge to the veracity of her story and her own role as the cause of some of the horrors she said she suffered.
If you are worried about Scott….Don’t be!
He is headed to your place in the Florida Keys with his entire home in tow.
Scott’s home has A/C and Cable TV like some of the world’s best four star highway motels.
Looks like he is all ready in Florida
Who would have thought a trailer home could float on just a dock.
It’s not just him, it’s others. I’m a Trump supporter from this distance, but I can’t deny or express my convictions about it. Let’s go to the people who have a better look at the story. I’d like to see it more clearly.
Par for the course. LOL
You go. LOL
“Name Dropping,” exaggerating, purchasing, cajoling, tricking or outright fraudulently using celebrity endorsements is what NX did from time immemorial to the present day “Amanda Knox” and “Abby Rockefeller” alleged endorsements.
They’ve always hard targeted celebrity circles and their families, far and wide, and counted someone taking, say, a single, freebie course to help a struggling relative as a shining example of a successful, famous ESP member.
They tried to use me and my sister (when she lived with us in Malibu) to recruit a number of them early on and they misused the “names” past the point of embarrassment. I won’t even repeat them.
A lot of it was patterned on Scientology celebrity recruitment methods. The very dark side to it includes “data” collecting, auditing or getting info for subtle and not-so-subtle blackmail purposes, to cause “rifts” in families, cast suspicions on spouse or work associates, etc.
…What they did to everyone from Edgar Bronfman down to my ex-husband and me trying to steal into our brief spotlight of fame.
Yup. Anyone who ran into this, please pay attention and maybe reevaluate your experiences.
Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun.
Shine on you crazy diamond.
Now there’s a look in your eyes, like black holes in the sky.
Shine on you crazy diamond.
You were caught on the crossfire of childhood and stardom,
Blown on the steel breeze.
Come on you target for faraway laughter,
Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond.
Threatened by shadows at night, and exposed in the light.
Shine on you crazy diamond.
Well you wore out your welcome with random precision,
Rode on the steel breeze.
Come on you raver, you seer of visions,
Come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!
Man that brings back memories. I guess that was a “good” thing about Raniere – introduced me to the music of Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, and (his personal favorite) Yes. Oh, and Tosca on the other end of the spectrum. Just a manipulation – music was/is a hobby of mine. It was a way to “connect” with me. Luckily, he was unable to pull a Clockwork Orange on me – I can still enjoy the music.
That’s creepy, L. Our Dad loved Tosca, played it all the time when we were kids. Gina was also a humongous Pink Floyd and Zepplin fan from the start. The later two are fairly common but TOSCA is rather rare. Is that the only opera Keith wooed you with?
PS — I really think there was some crossover time-wise with you and Gina. I caught she and Keith in bed together in December 1984 but, of course, she knew him prior — whether or not there was prior sex. What were your “Raniere years,” again?
Wasn’t Mack’s dad an opera singer?
YES, Mack’s dad is a rather famous opera/classical singer.
That gave Keith & cohorts a few ways to “break” Allison and manipulate her and her family.
The ESP/NXIVM cult ALWAYS strategically used family dynamics and childhood memories (real or reconstructed) to mind condition targets like Allison. Keith ALWAYS deliberately played the “father figure” and Nancy Salzman played “Mommy dearest.”
(This was a strategic set-up, once exemplified at a CBI/ESP retreat wherein Nancy was coronated as Keith’s own mother figure.)
Also, Keith claimed musical genius (Acapella voice since apart from Moonlight Sonata on the piano he had no instrumental skill) as one of his Vanguard gifts. (Our Dad was a professional musician, btw.). That false claim offered Allison the mentorship key to finding her “authentic” voice /performance talents to please her Dad.
I know sticking up for Allie is not a popular position on here but facts are facts and for me, they add up to the reality that Allie was hard targeted and quite literally, strategically “broken” down where most of the other defendants — Nancy, Lauren and Clare — along with some, um, non-defendants — were part of the effort to do so at Keith’s express behest from the get-go.
Yeah, Tosca was the only one. I was more of an orchestral instrumentalist at that point, so it was my first exposure to opera (beyond orchestral overtures). It was a record (yup – vinyl, I’m that old) at his father’s apartment in Manhattan. I don’t remember hearing Tosca again with him after that summer. Anything else that I like operatically I pursued on my own after that. He followed me into performing in musical theater. At first, I thought he actually wanted to participate with me; now I suspect it was either the “look – I’m better at this than your are” factor or the “hey look – lots of pretty girls here – gonna get me some!” possibilities.
I left Keith at the end of August, 1984. If Gina was already involved at RPI players before then, we might have known each other in passing, but I’m sorry – I do not recall her. Last I really saw of Keith, we were both performing in Sweeney Todd – Spring ’85. Luckily my role had no intersection with his so I never had to deal with him at rehearsals.
I don’t know if the following is true or a fiction that Keith dreamed up to tell his buddies: FBI asked me if friends of mine in RPI Players had kicked him out because he was harassing me. I had no idea that had happened. As far as I knew, he lost interest after Sweeney Todd since I never saw him at Players again – which was just fine by me. If Players had known he was going after young girls, they might have kicked him out over that. Hell, if I had known it at the time, I would have headed the effort to boot him out.
Also, L, if you look at Gina’s NXIVM death chart she left adorned at the ‘suicide’ scene (Frank’s published), you’ll see much of it references music. As you know, movies and music were tools Keith used to mind-condition. I feel like you, Gina, a lot of the successive “girlfriends” were experimental patterns right up to and beyond Gina’s death.
Absolutely! Sharing what I knew with the FBI before Keith’s trial put a lot of things in perspective for me that were still unclear. And then following the testimony as the trial progressed was both triggering and elucidating. I could really visualize the trajectory from me back in the early ’80s to the abuse he handed out more recently. Definite moments of recognition where it was clear “games” he had played on me were expanded and refined on subsequent women.
Frank now had my email address if you want to talk more directly
Thanks, L. M’fer prolly got that Tosca record the same place he got my “Siddhartha” books the FBI found, my BUM t-shirt he’s pictured in playing volleyball, my brother’s martial arts medals and runner’s award trophies, etc. and no f’in wonder they took over Romano’s two months before Gina died.
We have to talk. Gina knew of “you”. She told me Keith was unjustly accused of harassing you at RPI players and you had obtained a restraining order. I searched for it after Gina died.
Keith WAS diddling with the little girls over at RPI players and telling them he’d get them big parts, etc., he even told me there were Hollywood talent scouts at RPI players and he’d arrange for them to see my “Little Murders” performance — he said he’d secretly pulled strings to get me the starring role — but he couldn’t actually be there bc of “you” and your victimization of him. Gawd, did I ever play Patsy.
Nah, Heidi – I understand the reaction. I’ve had many of those “Damn, what a fool I was” moments since James Odato first tracked me down years ago. Sometimes being a good-hearted, trusting person opens you up to some psychopath’s need to destroy anything in their path. The responsibility for his behavior is all on him – sometimes people like you and me need to remind ourselves of that.
ICE-NiNE I agree with you!, How did they not know that Raniere was having a sexual relationship with several of them? It was stated by an ex-member that Raniere didn’t shower in two years, and he was sexually involved at that time with at least 3 women. Most of us women would know sooner or later that their man was cheating on them. In this case, there were at least 8-10 sexually involved at the same time with Raniere. The conclusion is that when in a cult, some members become victims and then turn to victimizers. Raniere deserves to be in jail and these women deserve to be happy and overcome all this.
—It was stated by an ex-member that Raniere didn’t shower in two years,
Yeah, but there was that hot tub under the loft bed in “the library.”
I can only speak for myself when I was young and naive. If you confronted Keith about your suspicions of his cheating, he would turn it back on you. As in, the only reason you were accusing him must be because you were so untrustworthy yourself. And how awful it was that you would suspect him and his friendships; what kind of partner would be so untrusting? And if you had specific questions on other women/incidents, those women were “crazy” in what they said or did, or they were trying to seduce him, but while he nobly declined, he would never be so cruel as to deny his friendship to them. It’s all designed to make you doubt your own judgement and observations and instincts. And the one time I did directly ask one of the women for answers, he was massively angry and made me write a rebuttal to everything she said.
i was lucky – he did not yet have a cadre of women who would abet him in his lies; I met him young and grew up enough while with him to at least start listening to my own instincts; and grace of God or whatever greater intelligence there may be in the universe, I had moments of clarity when I recognized I did not have to remain in a situation that was abusive to me.
People can state whatever they want, it doesn’t make it true. LOL
Anonymous, you haven’t probably looked at the videos where Keith’s hair looks all greasy, yikes!!!
Why doesn’t Scott use a new pseudonym instead of ending each sentence with ‘LOL’? Why is Scott allowed to do this. The excessive use of ‘LOL’ is a disturbing factor, even if it has become Scott’s trademark.
It’s understandable that some would be interested in a self help program and take a few classes and then go on with their lives when they got what they needed. That’s common.
I don’t feel the need to know who took a few classes, but it would be great to hear from them anonymously about their impressions and why they didn’t continue.
They could give insight to what it’s like to be recruited. The members still inside and those in recovery from long term membership don’t give fleshed out answers, rather a repeat of the same slogans.
Karen U. is taking exactly the approach that research shows is most effective, to reach out with an attitude of respect and openness. And I think that if most of us consider our own experience, we have found that just confronting people rarely if ever changes their opinions or beliefs.
It’s hardly surprising that NXIVM got someone like Anniston to attend a few lower-level courses. Hollywood and Southern California are full of groups and cults, or their local branches, and celebrities and all sorts of other people end up checking out various of them, trying to find things that are of interest or that meet their personal needs. It wouldn’t be surprising if there were others, including some we’ll probably never hear about. It’s sort of like what is known as “church shopping” elsewhere.
Why is Karen using Raniere’s last name on her Twitter account? Why on God’s green Earth would you want your name attached to such scandal?.
Sorry, Karen, I read your name wrong…my apologies.
3 Psychological Principles Nxivm Used to Brainwash Its Members
The “ODD” principles used to trap everyday people in a sex cult.
Jennifer left Nxivm when she met Kristin Kreuk cuz she didn’t want to compete with another “Monica”
Was “Monica” considered the “hot” one?
Pretty sure Nxivm would of preferred to bag a Jennifer Aniston instead of a Kristin Kook Kreuk to be their “star” draw. Aniston, as useless as she is, is still considered an A-lister, both on television and in Hollywood. Of the clips I saw of Kristin Kreuk in white people hating “Burden of Truth”, she has about three facial expressions, one of which is “who farted, it must have been an evil white man trying to kill Native Americans”.
Now, did Nxivm also catch Joey?
“as useless as she is…”
Pot meet kettle.
Who is Joey, who is Monica, who is Anniston? Not that I care.
Joey and Monica (played by Matt Leblanc and Cortney Cox, respectively) are characters on the show “Friends”, which was on the air for a decade starting in 1995 I think, and one of the most popular US sitcoms ever. Jennifer Anniston played the character Rachel on the same show.
As long as there are broken people, there will be cults. Cults offer simple solutions to complex problems. Follow this leader, do this course, make this contribution, and all will be fine.
It doesn’t matter what the problem is; the solution is one-size-fits-all.
Every cult is a scam. Every cult leader a scammer.
You can’t buy adulthood. You can only grow into it.
The “broken people” may make up part of cult members, but not most of them. LOL
This kind of loser mentality is more responsible for cults than the “broken people,” because when you call them broken, stupid, etc., they don’t want to speak up. LOL
Some were coerced. They are stupid too. Too late to speak up now, nobody wants to hear from failures.
Maybe the Psychology Today article above will enlighten you.
Maybe not. Some people prefer not to let research get in the way of their instinctive assumptions. It would not been unreasonable to say that some cult experiences have something in common with Stockholm Syndrome, in their most extreme forms.
—This kind of loser mentality is more responsible for cults than the “broken people,” because when you call them broken, stupid, etc., they don’t want to speak up.
How would you categorize yourself?
The question doesn’t speak to me but the answer is.
Yes, there’s a losing mentality. For those who can’t recognize that they’ve made a mistake, they’re shifting the blame to others. If I were like this? I’d like to talk. All I care about is getting out what happened. Even if I get hurt. Because if you don’t do this, maybe other people won’t dare. Someone’s got to start. That’s why I commend the brave pioneers.
I don’t think there should be shame in recognizing, that for lack of a better word, “broken” can be repaired. At some point, if not several times throughout one’s adult life, circumstances come crashing down and bottom is reached. Recognizing that you’ve reached your limit and need help can be the first step in turning it all around.
I like your posts, Paul.
Her comment is a good one in regards to the sentencing.It is fairly hard to prosecute cult leaders even though large numbers of wrongs have been done but they are hard to prove and pinpoint. The judge was harsh because he was a good judge – he punished within what the law allowed but also reflecting justice and doing the right thing by all those victims and more.
All of these women were with Raniere for years. Their recanting of him should be seen in that light.
Things we may claim to know the answer to, but are deep down unsure of:
1. What did Keith mean by “I’ve had people killed for my beliefs.”
2. What’s a tool scam and why does Scott keep bringing in up on Frank Report?
3. Did Ross and Rachel live happily ever after?
4. Did The Society of Protectors ever DO anything, or just meet?
5. Were the feelings mutual when Nancy put the moves on Frank?
6. How often did Keith wash his hair?
7. Who’s K.R. Claviger?
8. The entire Kristin Keeffe escape story.
9. What is Shadowstate’s job?
10. How do you spell Karen U’s last name?
Great list! Top-shelf.
The answer to #2 is easy: https://frankreport.com/2018/07/29/scott-johnson-explains-why-im-here/ Do your part and copy/paste this message, including this part, all over social media (unless owned/operated by current Amway IBOs or the Amway scam company), and encourage them to do the same, and so on, à la network marketing/MLM. Also, submit a complaint to the FTC at https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/?utm_source=takeaction#crnt&panel1-1 If you don’t, then you’re part of the problem. Amway has 2 major problems, and most MLMs have at least one of these issues:
1. The products are overpriced, which makes them almost impossible to sell to customers and results in Amway being an illegal pyramid: http://allmlmfacts.org/2016/05/h-r-5230-and-the-fallacy-of-mlm/ , and also according to the FTC and SEC websites and previous court decisions and settlements; and
2. The Tool Scam is hidden profit for the top level distributors only, and the vast majority of distributors operate at a net loss as a result: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0iFUaiI2hY This is RICO fraud.
For recent examples, google “FTC” along with the following companies, one at a time: FHTM, BurnLounge, Zeek, TelexFree, Vemma, Advocare, Neora, Javita, Waiora, Business For Health, and Herbalife. Make a complaint on the FTC website: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/?utm_source=takeaction#crnt&panel1-1
Although there is no federal law defining pyramid schemes, the FTC has a long and successful track record of using its Section 5 law prohibiting “unfair and deceptive” business practices to go after MLM scams: https://web.archive.org/web/20190824052752/https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/multilevel-marketing (the link was changed in late 2019, so the current page does not state this exactly the same) which states, in part, “Not all multilevel marketing plans are legitimate. If the money you make is based on your sales to the public, it may be a legitimate multilevel marketing plan. If the money you make is based on the number of people you recruit and your sales to them, it’s probably not. It could be a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are illegal, and the vast majority of participants lose money.”
Read about these and much more at these websites: http://www.StopTheAmwayToolScam.wordpress.com and http://www.AllMLMFacts.org, and http://www.AmwayUKBlog.wordpress.com, and email firstname.lastname@example.org to help shut down Amway and other MLM scams.
Watch this video about Amway and other MLM scams, then forward it to everyone you know, except for current Amway IBOs, and encourage them to do the same. When enough people know, these scams will collapse:
English version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MwGeOm8iI
Spanish version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy-O4myeUzg
Visit my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Whydoyoubanothers/videos
Listen to my weekly radio/podcast: https://www.buildingfortunesradio.com/scott-johnson-peter-mingils/
Where would you be without our dear friend?
You’re welcome, Nutjob – [redacted] LOL
I believe your perspective on Nxivm is key because of your inner knowledge.
Here is my latest limerick:
[redacted because it was about Scott and we have published one of these already.]
Poor niceguy. When will you learn…
Here are some nice things you can incorporate into your Scott limericks to help get Frank to approve them.
– Scott fights hard for what he believes in. – Scott is consistent. – Scott doesn’t care if people like him.
– Scott was pleasant to Frank when Frank was a guest on the pod. – Scott is proud to be from Texas.
– Scott is married. – Scott is looked up to by Flowers. – Scott at least subconsciously likes to laugh out loud. – Scott is tall. – Scott isn’t afraid to mix it up via his keyboard. – Scott doesn’t like MLMs scamming people. – Scott knows how to play pingpong as a lefty and righty.
Here are some things that may be true about Scott and could help you fill out some of the limerick lines.
– Scott is pretty. – Scott drives a nice car. – Scott is well groomed. – Scott has many friends. – Scott is successful. – Scott is charitable. – Scott is smart. – Scott has nice teeth. – Scott is coordinated.
It’s nice to know you paid so much attention to Scott’s comments over the years, I’ll be sure to tell him how much you admire him. LOL
Almost forgot the best one. I’ll take you lefty or righty.
NutJob, my name did not get honorable mention? So sad.
I wrote two friggin limericks. Here is my second choice:
“Impotent Omar Boone”
There was a buffoon named Omar Boone
His crazy wife banged a hairy baboon
“Edgar is a cuckold”,
Everyone gave a chuckle
Marry a horny loon you’ll be lampooned
I’m never writing a Limerick again; not that anyone gives a sh*t. 😀
Nice Guy, you actually have a lot of talent in limerick writing. Please keep on; it promises well.
Frank, you inspired me. Plus the deity, Keith Raniere, is deserving of his limerick
“Vanguard’s Grand Sendoff!”
Once a nerd had a herd, what a dream
women got creamed, men got reamed
ladies’ clams he tattooed
its criminal, breaking taboos
Now in jail, guess who gets double-teamed
Own not of
I see a big future for you Nice Guy – keep this up. And while most people should not quit their day job to pursue writing limericks fulltime, you may be the one exception.
Niceguy, this limerick smells of a celebratory cocktail or two. Enjoy!
Even Amway doesn’t recommend quitting your day job to do Amway full time until you’re making about twice as much as your job. LOL
NiceGuy! I applaud your literary efforts. See – poetry is not so bad after all.
It’s a wrap! I had fun. Thanks!
Eugene O’Neill, who some consider America’s best playwright, loved to write naughty limericks. Keep it up.
Sorry, niceguy. 11-20 of my list got redacted. Apparently, it’s frowned upon to post about what Scott does in New Orleans, the Smallville posters on Shadow’s walls, your pretend lawyer wife, Anonymaker being a bot, the blind dates of Flowers, and the names in Frank’s little black book.
I’ll try another for you:
11. Did Niceguy follow the limerick rules?
Frank is goal tending
Sorry, Niceguy. Couldn’t get the entire post past the goalie. Here was one of your G rated parts that won’t hit the crossbar.
11. Did Niceguy follow the limerick rules?
Keep the limericks coming. At least it makes a dark subject a bit lighter.
Totally agree. This is dark and Frank is warning us of even darker content. Some humor here or there isn’t bad. I’ve even got some good self depreciating stuff, if it will help when it gets really heavy.
Clare, Federal Prisoner #91010-053
Two heiresses landed in Albany
Minds blown so they blew lotsa dad’s money
Shimmied up the stripe path
With some prods from K’s staff
Now one of them answers to fifty-three
Let me add to your excellent list, Nutso – and by the way, the answer to #4 is “No” and to #9 is “Subway Sandwich Artist”.
11. Will Pea Onyu ever come back to Frank Report?
12. Who were those other people walking around Frank’s house in The Vow?
13. Does Frank always wear a tie when soap opera actresses come to visit him?
14. Since Frank never watches TV, does he even know what you mean when you asked about Ross and Rachel?
15. Is Lauren tall or short?
I would like to know who K.R. Claviger is also, and how do you pronounce that and what does the K and the R stand for? and is it a man or a woman or a they?
KRClaviger = Keith Rainere jailer (a claviger is a “keeper of the keys”, custodian, warden). I believe it is a nom de plume of Joe O’Hara.
Good follow-up list!
NutJob has some big shoes to fill.
12. Frank can tell you if he wants to.
13. I think Frank always wears a tie when he goes to a meaningful trial, and even a textile handkerchief, which also looks great on him.
14. Frank doesn’t watch TV, but he’s up on things because he listens to news. You don’t need a TV to know the relevant information.
15. Frank’s perfect, no matter how much skepticism.
Wonderful list; thank you. I, for one, am most intrigued about the answer to number 6.
For example, did the SOPers really show “ownership” of their women with facials?
Or is that just the salacious rumor it seems to be?
You seem fascinated with SOP and facials.
In case you didn’t know, every male in Nxivm was a cuck little pussy. That is why they were in a cult that worshipped a fat cunt like Keith Raniere. Alpha males do not do that.
They had to manipulate to get pussy, thus they were not man enough to “own” a woman. They were playing a role, pretending to be alphas. In fact, the SOP rules were created by mega-loser Keith Raniere. And other loser males followed him.
Say what you mean! ROFLMAO
“You seem fascinated with SOP and facials
It’s a fascinating subject, and Keith taught that to his boys, right?
Bangkok’s descriptions are sublime.
Good list. #4 would get a lot of clicks if only someone would divulge.
…with pix please. They have to exist, because the SOP boys had to prove to Keith they did their “homework,”
Let’s see what the public thinks of Ms. Mack:
BooHoo for Allison Mack! Her excuse she was lost? She was a privileged actress with much at her fingers and instead of using her position and influence for the good of mankind, she decided to travel down a corrupt path. I don’t accept that she is a victim. She was not a child and had the family support and the means to seek out therapy if she was struggling with her success. No “Get Out of Jail” free card nor should she have the privilege or freedom to further educate herself and enjoy the niceties of life. She stole that from countless others! Rot in jail….soon!
You are despicable- shame on you. I hope you get what you deserve.
Hope you leave LA you don’t belong in my city you vile soul.
Going after children now. Why?
Jump in a blender please
Can’t believe you still have the gall to post. What does your mum think about your CULT?! Or is she as deluded as you 🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴
@rudsmummy everything stems from the mother.
Go to JAIL!!!
Really hope you go to prison youre pure evil but like most rich entitled princesses im sure youll avoid it somehow
Very glad you stopped posting. What a monster of a human being.
These comments are typical of the vile speech that comes these days from those who sit anonymously behind their laptops. Commenters on this site (and Reddit) are by and large much more educated about all the issues and insightful.
It’s easy to form snap judgments and wholly condemn people. It takes more effort to learn and consider all aspects to a situation.
A lot depends on the light we put on a person. If we focus on errors, they can be magnified. This also applies to comments. And people want to hurt others, because then their own mistakes fade away.
A lot depends on the light we put on a person. If we focus on errors, they can be magnified. This also applies to comments. And people want to hurt others, because then their own mistakes fade away.
Wow! Excellent observations and insights, Nomin! Thanks for sharing. 👍🏼
I agree completely except for our Texan. Thanks
Coded message Glasgow Bait
Clandestine gestapo agent provocateurs secret post.
One hard cover Mien Kampf to you
You can see that, dear anonymous.
Proof that cults make people go broke. Notice how Marc Elliot is always wearing the same outfit and shoes in public. Note the worn-out cognac-colored shoes and navy clothes in all his recent photos. With Christmas coming, can someone please give him a gift card (even if it’s Old Navy)?
Not only are these people brainwashed, but they’re also essentially bankrupt.
Actually, Marc can be a pretty dapper dresser.
I wrote the limerick below originally about Marc’s buddy Eduardo. It seems timely at this moment.
“Finely Dressed Men”
Once there was a man named Eduardo
Guy dressed like he needed a win at lotto
He score the vaginas,
that cause male angina
Poorly dressed men win bad fishy tacos
I am very happy Karen is out. I met her in the 90s, and she seemed truly decent. It is heartbreaking to think of an 18 year old being sucked into a narcissist’s world. I know what it’s like to have your college love and it’s something you want to hang onto. Almost like you grew up together. I wish her the best going forward.
Have we ever discovered the identity of the “Rat”? There have been many speculations, from Karen to Kristin to others. Surely it’s safe for him/her to own up now? The post goes back to the Saratoga In Decline days.
Karen is one of the nicest people I’ve ever met.
I hope if Frank knows the identity of The Rat, but has promised not to disclose, he’d let us know. Between Kristin Keefe and Karen U both talking to Frank, I’d have bet that the answer as to The Rat’s identity would have come out.
Raniere was a nice guy, too. LOL
Nah. He was a pompous asshole.
So Karen U/Kristin Keefe knows/knew who “The Rat” is and that Keith Raniere was a kiddy fiddler, yet stayed with him all that time?
I asked both women if they knew who the Rat is and both denied it. Both have been suspected of being the Rat but I rather think it is someone else, someone from Mexico. But I do not know either.
Generally, who could the Rat be?
Could it be a former victim of Keith Raniere or someone who personally knows a victim of his? Parent, sibling, friend?
Also, is it possible, through the Wayback machine to check the IP address of the Rat, through his or her Saratoga In Decline comments?
Perhaps their location can be identified?
John Tighe used to track Nancy Salzman’s and others’ IP addresses every time they clicked on his Saratoga In Decline blog.
Also, now that the pedophile rapist is in jail and will die in jail, why does the Rat not come forward? Don’t be a mouse.
Asking someone whether she is the rat is in vain, especially if you expect an honest and true answer. What did you expect? The answer to no, was to be expected, and proves nothing.
I understood that the Rat whoever it is would likely deny it. Still their denials should be included.
I deny being the rat. LOL
Anyone else want to deny being the rat? LOL
The Rat confirmed Keith Raniere drove Gina Hutchinson to suicide.
Raniere broke women time and time again.
Mark Vicente, in court testimony, stated Keith said, “I am trying to break her[Alison Mack]”.
Raniere is in prison for 120 years.
There is no importance in learning the Rat’s name.
Every one of those women is culpable in their own demise. They were all fucking the smelly one, then allowing the lie of him being celibate and the most ethical man in the world to persist. I have never read or heard a single one of them admit their own guilt in this. They always say they were lied to and manipulated and then try to shift all of the blame to others. For this, there is no excuse. They were the liars. They were not only aware of a lie but were the cause of it. And they allowed others to join and have their lives ruined too because of it. Until they start admitting their own guilt, I can not feel fully sorry for them.
I have to wholeheartedly agree with this assessment. They may have been victims in some sense, but they also bought into the lifestyle choices of the fraud known as Keith Alan Raniere. Only real professionals can truly assess the claim of “abusive relationship” on an individual basis, but none of these people are innocent from the stain of enabler or perpetrator, with some being far more guilty than others. Most of them enjoyed the lifestyle and benefits and went along with it until the sociopath’s shit hit the fan and those in power greater than him decided to do something truly ethical about it.
I’ll disagree and say Keith is the cause of the lies. I’d bet all of the women feel regret for being complicit. There are not a lot of safe places for the women to pour out their hearts and give you the apologies you crave.
Is Keith documented anywhere as speaking or writing the words, “I am celibate.” ?
I’m not trying to make other people do research for me, but maybe someone has something bookmarked somewhere that shows he’s said that. I’ve heard more along the lines of, “I’d heard that he was celibate” “Someone told me he was celibate.”
I gather that he’s said he’s a “renunciate” but I thought that had more to do with renouncing material goods, not abstaining from sex. ?
Yes. It was taught in class and we know that Keith writes or approves all curriculum. From Sarah Edmondson’s book, Scarred, she writes:
– from her first 11 day intensive she was taught by the instructor in class that “…Keith, they said, was a renunciate, meaning he owned no material posession and celibate…”
– when she realizes Nicki was sleeping with Keith, she writes, “…Keith, as we’d been told from day one, was a celibate renunciate.”
She always describes her disappointment in her mentors, Barb J. and Pam, that they propped up this myth and she considers them liars.
I think he had other people say it. LOL
Double shot- I don’t believe there is an exact quote floating around out there from Raniere claiming to celibate.
I like your thinking. It’s a perspective from the inside-out.
Though I don’t agree, I do follow your line of logic and reasoning, and I look forward to seeing your future posts.
My unsolicited advice 😀. I don’t believe you can defend Keith by-splitting-hairs and getting lost in the minutia of semantics.
—I like your thinking. It’s a perspective from the inside-out…I don’t believe you can defend Keith by-splitting-hairs and getting lost in the minutia of semantics.
I’m drawn to this topic because, before watching the Vow and only being familiar with headlines about the case I thought, “How could people be so dumb?” After watching the Vow, I thought, “Holy crap this could have happened to me. Could it have? What if it had? Is it really as bad as they’re all saying?” Which led me here to the Frank Report to find out more. When I learned what happened to the sisters Daniella and Camilla, I realized, oh yeah, there is bad stuff going on here overall. But was DOS itself so evil?
I’m self-employed and need to keep myself motivated. At various times, I’ve partnered up with other self-employed women as “accountability partners.” (no bdsm involved ;-)) We are still each doing our own things but have someone to check in with to see if we’ve met our targets etc., for a little extra support and motivation and also to avoid looking like an unproductive loser in the eyes of the accountability partner if we don’t get things done.
Also, I’ve heard tips to like, give a friend 100 bucks, and if you don’t do what you said you would do, i.e. go to the gym, beat a deadline, etc) that friend will donate the 100 bucks to an organization you despise. I’ve never tried that approach, but I could see the appeal of the threat of negative consequences for not doing what you know you should do to meet your goals. I can kind of understand why women would join DOS, and I definitely can’t say it would never have happened to me, which is why I’m binge-reading the Frank Report with an open mind to learn more because it does hit kind of close to home for me.
I might seem to be splitting hairs sometimes, but it’s not because I’m trying to defend KR, I’m just asking questions that I truly have or sharing my thoughts as I’m trying to process the whole thing. I could write a lot more on this, but gotsta go.
Caffeinated 12:36 pm—
I get where you are coming from
—How could people be so dumb?” After watching The Vow, I thought, “Holy crap this could have happened to me.
I had a similar epiphany. The Vow helped me understand the “pull” or “draw” of why the Nxivm people joined.
Breaking up into groups is a definite repeating theme working on each other’s goals. Oddly enough, tons of organizations now use similar structures: Exercise organisms are a prime example. https://www.wired.com/2016/06/fitness-isnt-lifestyle-anymore-sometimes-cult/
The Cross Fit is an exercise quasi-cult:
And when I heard about the 120-year sentence, I was like, “Say what?” Dig dig dig for info. Honestly, I’m still not even convinced about the legitimacy of the concepts of “cults” and “brainwashing” because they kind of seem like cop-out terms or easy ways to trash a group with fringe ideas. I realize that makes me sound like I’m about to join a cult tomorrow. Cult-deniers cult? I’m not a denier though, I’m just still not 100% convinced.
I’m convinced that well-meaning people got hurt in this case though, don’t get me wrong.
You didn’t disagree, you admitted they are all liars. LOL
Safe place, what the f*ck does that mean – who is going to hurt them with words on this website? LOL
Good job with your comprehension. Most of them sure the hell ARE liars.
Other than you trying to, nobody will hurt them on this website. Most have probably lawyered-up and been told to shut their yaps. The only safe place is their attorney’s office.
Someone pissed Ivy off good. She tweeted I know who you are LOL. I reported your veiled threats to the police.
When Frank is not around to moderate our favorite Texan, he gets himself in trouble.
Ivy doesn’t mess around. Scott’s latest 7 month run of not being banned on twitter may come to a screeching halt. Too bad. He’s done an impressive job of building his TexTex brand – what with the one follower he picked up and all…
Come on, Nutjob. How can I persuade Scott to treat other commenters better when you and Nice Guy continue to pick on him?
Good point. I will be better. But you have your hands full with niceguy…
Sorry for picking on you, Scott. Good luck with the Ivy legal matter.
Frank defends the Texan! Why?!?!?
Over the years, Frank has allowed a certain Texan free reign. My theory is that said Texan is holding Frank’s collateral. The Texan forced Frank to swear fealty.
What’s the collateral? Well, since Frank partied with Ben Szemkus, God only knows.
Scott – Allison, an articulate newcomer to this site, who should be welcomed with open arms, poured out her heart to us and you immediately smack her down. I do appreciate many of your points at times, but this is the kind of thing that saddens me about this site.
For a long time, I wondered who might have been naïve enough to join such a group as NXIVM. Then I started to figure out how things could go. I’m not going to go into detail because they were a lot smarter than me, and they lived it, and they really know what it’s about. But I’m sure if it had, I could have been an easy target, too, even though I’m proud of my human knowledge. Let’s just admit that Keith was a master at manipulation.
That’s a bunch of hooey, nutjob. Mack was an actress, and the others were wealthy, or at least pretty. They all could find plenty of good men if they wanted to. We are talking decades of lies these women told. And I’m sure they do regret it, but they aren’t accepting any responsibility for it, which is my issue.
They really need to apologize to everyone that took part in ESP or NXIVM. Even if people didn’t fully join the cult, they were sold on attending classes and spent thousands of dollars to attend something that these women knew was based on a lie.
You make it sound easy. Every woman had a different experience and should stand on their own. But, we’re not that far apart.
I agree with you and disagree as well. Seriously the women should be free to communicate/comment without being attacked by everyone’s favorite Texan.
You challenged me to write a limerick and I accepted. I followed all the rules of limerick writing.
“Oh Poor Carlos’ Cabrón!”
There was a cabrón named Emi Salinas
Who had a small limp flaccid penis
he played on a tennis court
While he felateD Bettencourt
Fuzzy balls 40-love, his dad cried, “Jesus!”
Yes, women should be treated as pampered, helpless pets, that’s what many of them want, plus they want to be treated as equals and they can’t have it both ways. LOL
How do you want to be treated?
Uhm, Nice…Women are pets. Glad to know you treat women a little better than Raniere. I was worried.
It’s very difficult for people to understand and admit that their whole psychology is built on a lie. What do you replace it with? That is a conundrum that is very hard to solve. I don’t believe that any of these people are capable of doing it without help, but how could a mere mortal help the (partially) enlightened? They are, for the moment, lost to themselves.
Do you think the dopamine of self righteousness will wear off after everyone has been sentenced and there’s nothing to fight against anymore?
Yes ice nine, it should be called the Kruek syndrome.
Only for someone obsessed with Kreuk.
One could easily saw that Clare and Sara deserved the same sentence for their involvement. I certainly think so.
I think Clare Bare was more directly involved in the various lawsuits than her evil sister. LOL
Frank – the date on Karen is wrong. KAR and KU met and stated dating as incoming freshman at RPI in fall of 1977. I met them in fall ’79 as an incoming freshman – they were both juniors that year. Karen graduated on time after spring ’81 semester. Keith had to take a year off – an academic probation policy at RPI. That’s why he graduated late (’82).
I’m glad Karen has finally broken free of him.
What were they like back then? I would love to hear the story behind how he later got Pam involved and why KU accepted it, and the whole dynamics behind the relationship.
That is great that KU understands that Keith was a NARC. That is huge for healing.
Keith – same as always. He just refined his methods and got more grandiose over the years apparently. I was gone long before Pam. I knew Keith for 5 years – 4 of them as his girlfriend (or so I thought at the time – I think by this time we all know he’d never had an honest relationship in his life).
Karen – it’s hard to know at this point whether she was the sweet person I thought back then or was already an enabler and abettor. Given who Keith is, I’m inclined to think what I knew of her was always warped by his manipulation and lies. But she was the one who came and talked me into continuing a friendship with him when I had originally shunned him early on in knowing him. I wish her well in her healing – that is a long time to have survived in a narcissistic relationship. Facing the truth about how everything in your life was a lie can be devastating. It’s like your whole past crumbles into meaningless dust. But she’s smart and will find a way to move her life forward.
Except KU is as f*cked up as Raniere and the rest of them. LOL
Scott – it isn’t easy recovering from being deceived for most of your life. I think that one has to have a lot of self-forgiveness, and we do well, I believe, to offer a little of that ourselves to Karen and others in thinking and writing about those who were part of Nxivm and followed Raniere for good reasons and found out too late that their life’s work was corrupted. You tasted a little of that in Amway.
Actually it’s quite easy, all you have to do is honestly admit what you were involved in, your role in it, and then educate others so they don’t make the same mistakes – that is quite liberating, I know that from my little taste of Amway. LOL
The problem is that most people aren’t willing to do that, so they stew in their own feces. LOL
Frank, you have as much chance of reaching Scott…..
As Bangkok of Six has of scoring Lauren Salzman.
Go take a walk outside, it’s beautiful out.
New Idea Magazine is an Australian scandal sheet mostly obsessed with the British Royals. Two days ago they were headlining the “Shocking News!” that “Queen Elizabeth Stepped Down!”
Queen Elizabeth has not, of course, abdicated. They made the story up. They invent half their stories. As long as it’s about celebrities, and it’s “Shocking!”, New Ideas will print it.
Maybe Anniston took a Nxivm course, maybe she didn’t. There’s no reliable evidence that she did.
I don’t like tabloids, but I have to admit that sometimes they have very good information because they make a living from scandals. When I used to be a publicist, I often had to read them over and go after events more accurately than normal média.
How and when did Kristanna Loken get involved?
I just read an old article. Her lawyer sent you a letter with demands, including removing the allegations of “sex cult.” Hah!
“It is curious but of his four inner-inner circle members – the four women who were with him before Nxivm — Karen, Kristin Keeffe, Pam Cafritz and Barbara Jeske, two are dead from cancer and the other two, both cancer survivors, have turned against him.”
And then Nancy, another cancer victim, who created Nxivm. It is interesting that FR says Nancy “renounced” Keith. Others are speaking out, yet our smiling Nancy remains mum.
Oh dear, wait until we hear Prefect’s charm offensive according to Frank Report…
Jennifer Aniston being mentioned should attract some eyeballs. LOL
When did she take the classes, was she married at the time, and if so, to who? LOL