Two of our most esteemed commenters – the youthful, future curmudgeon, Bangkok and the inestimable, irascible Texan, Scott Johnson – are at odds over a lady that Bangkok has seemingly adored from afar.
Miss Lauren Salzman.
While it does not seem to be true that Bangkok desires his temptress Lauren quite as much as another admirably quixotic commenter, Sultan of Six, does for his lady fair, Kristin Kreuk, Bangkok nevertheless has been Lauren’s staunch defender.
Lauren, 43, still possesses a unique charm and fascination for our young commenter.
However, the Texan sees less to be admired about Lauren – and not long ago, these two gave their opinions on the matter.
Bangkok: With all due respect to the people who think that Lauren Salzman deserves (or will receive) a long jail sentence. Nope! Lauren does not deserve a long jail sentence.
Scott: They should ALL get long prison sentences, but they probably won’t get what they deserve. And it’s PRISON, not jail. Jail is before sentencing, prison is for after sentencing. She does deserve a long prison sentence.
The length [should correspond to the] long period of time the abuse occurred, the large number of people abused, and the extreme severity of the abuse. Short sentences should be reserved for people with opposite factors in their behavior.
Bangkok: The judge will never give Lauren a long sentence. I’m predicting 12-18 months max, with a downward departure from the recommended sentence.
Scott: I agree. The judge probably won’t give her a long prison sentence, because he is known as a “soft” sentencing judge and has guidelines to defend his light sentence.
Bangkok: Lauren is probably among the least culpable players within the NXIVM storyline, especially among the higher-up players.
Scott: Wrong. Salzman was a first-level DOS member who was in charge of keeping a girl confined [Daniela] for about 100 weeks.
Bangkok: Lauren has done FAR MORE to convict Keith than any other human being on planet Earth, especially when compared to her most vocal critics.
Scott: Salzman was FORCED to help in order to save her own a$$ from a longer prison sentence.
Bangkok: Lauren got up on the witness stand and held nothing back, delving into the most emotional testimony that her soul could bear.
Scott: It was part of her plea deal. She either said everything she knew or the deal would have been thrown out.
Bangkok: In fact, people … just sit back and snipe at poor Lauren —- while not having the courage to forgive her.
Scott: Forgiveness doesn’t take courage, it takes faith.
Bangkok: Lauren did NOT remain silent against Keith for 25 years [as others have] — since she wasn’t even with Keith for quite that long. 🙂
Scott: It’s not about counting years as much as it is knowing what is wrong and doing something about it.
Bangkok: Lauren turned against Keith in a shorter period of time…
Scott: Salzman turned on Raniere ONLY to save her own a$$, so the time period doesn’t count.
Bangkok: Also, according to Frank Parlato, Lauren was groomed from an early age (by her MOM) to be compliant with Keith’s every demand. Lauren was groomed — by her mom — to be physical with Keith while wrestling around as a teen — so that sex with Keith would be a logical next step once she became an adult. Lauren’s mom worshiped Keith and groomed HER OWN CHILD to think likewise.
Scott: You got this one right.
Bangkok: That’s a powerful thing. How can you blame a child who was groomed by HER OWN MOM to do precisely what her mom wanted her to do?
Scott: I can blame her after she reaches legal age, that’s how it works.
Bangkok: Nancy Salzman led her daughter Lauren into the mysteries and wonders of Vanguard and Nancy took the first plea deal and got the best deal for herself.
Scott: All of the others could have beaten Nancy Salzman to be the first one to cut a deal. Several months went by before she cut a deal.
Bangkok: It’s no different than blaming an Amish child for choosing to be Amish when they become an adult.
Scott: The Amish are much more isolated than Salzman was, so there are significant differences.
Bangkok: If you’re RAISED to be compliant with a certain ‘religion’ or ‘master’ (by your own MOM), then you’re far more likely to do precisely that when you grow up. That’s why the judge will take pity on Lauren and give her a sentence between 12-18 months IMO (24 months tops).
Scott: The judge will probably follow the guidelines and he’s known for giving light sentences. If that’s your definition of pity, so be it.
Bangkok: Allison Mack, however, was NOT groomed by her parents to worship Keith. Yet Allison still CHOSE to worship Keith even after she was ALREADY a successful actress — with her own independent life & money — when she first met Keith.
Scott: I understand Mack’s parents …supported her getting involved. Mack is the typical Hollyweird insecure actress nutjob, which made her an easy target.
Bangkok: That’s a huge difference [between Lauren and Allison]. This indicates that Allison bears more ‘mental’ responsibility than Lauren. She’s got dirtier hands than Lauren for precisely this reason.
Scott: No, it’s not a huge difference. It may be a “different” difference, but not a huge one. Dirty hands are defined by behaviors, and Salzman has more bad behaviors than Mack.
Bangkok: That’s why the judge will likely be giving Allison seven years in prison, thus giving her an ‘upward’ departure from normal sentencing guidelines.
Scott: Although Mr. Shadow would consider seven years to be inadequate, I doubt Mack’s sentence will be anywhere near that long, unless he gives Salzman even more time.
Bangkok: What about forgiveness? If you forgive [other inner circle members who were not charged], then you can forgive Lauren too. If not, then it would indicate that you’re harboring a deep resentment towards Lauren for reasons which you’re not admitting.
Scott: Let the victims forgive Lauren Salzman if they want to. I’m not involved, so there is nothing for me to forgive. Only victims have a role in forgiving those who took advantage of them.
Bangkok: Lauren has left the dark side of the force. She deserves mercy. But Allison doesn’t.
Scott: None of them deserve mercy, in this life or the next.
Bangkok: Allison is a sick and twisted twat just like Nicki Clyne.
Scott: There are a LOT of sick and twisted twats in NXIVM, male and female.