This is part 2 on our series on sex-slaver Keith Alan Raniere teaching his sex-slave Allison Mack.
Part #1 Allison Mack Questions Her Sex Slaver Leader Keith Raniere on ‘What Is Creativity?’
The work of transcribing was accomplished by Marie White working off a video of Keith Raniere’s conversation with Allison Mack.
In this delightful section, we get two treats. One: Allison Mack breaking down into tears over, Two: Keith Raniere’s word salad.
There are a lot of splendid word salad expressions which we will cull for you after the excerpt of their interview below. The topic is authenticity, as expounded by one of the great conmen of our day.
A: My next question …has to do with authenticity cuz then it seems more like the creativity comes from just the place of originality like soulfulness if you’re looking at it from a positive light.
K: You know authenticity and creativity are interesting. We don’t like to think of ourselves as robots.
A. um hum
K: If you are coming off as robotic, most people see that somehow inauthentic. There has to be an authenticity to that. Because we’re not robots so what does it mean to be authentic? When someone is authentic you feel them, you have this feeling of a soul there.
K: Not a robot, not some pre-programmed, um, contrived face or something along those lines. It just seems to come naturally from their experience of existing on this planet. From the time they are conceived, and they become a child, and grow and all of this, they gather this unique impression of existence and authenticity somehow is a manifestation of all of that and it also relates to wisdom.
You know I say wisdom is taking your life experience and being able to apply it into a decision. Ah, it’s a global way of acting, as opposed to a narrow way where oh, I feel like doing this and not think of anything that ever happened to me, no lesson has ever been learned and I am just going to go and do this thing. Ah, likewise, authenticity has no additional layers of artifice, no trying to be something that you think you should be. It’s just a pure state of being
A: Um hum
K: So one would say authenticity is being as you are and expressing as you are, at least to some degree, and as you are, of course, is this sum of your whole past. So when someone’s being authentic you get the feeling that not only that there’s a person there in the moment but somehow you reach into their very essence and you meet a unique individual.
A I don’t know why that makes me want to cry it’s beautiful I think. I’m sorry. [Allison becomes teary eyed.]
K: Well it’s, I think, these are all things we, we strive for, we strive as, ah, as individuals. We strive to break through a type of existential isolation. We want to touch someone. We want to know that other people have souls. We want to experience this. We want to experience connection, things, that things like what we call love, um, and compassion and even something like connection or rapport. Some people call it an energy or whatever but now we’re not talking to a machine.
K: We’re talking to another human and even if that human is a machine somehow we imbue it with that. We even ask the question is this thing alive, is this thing thinking?
A: Okay Yeah so..(wipes tear)
K: But why do you think that…
A: Is so emotional for me? (Wipes tear)
A: I don’t know cuz I think it seems like, ah, something that I feel like I want it, um, authenticity and I think, I mean–.
K: What do you want about authenticity?
A: I think that there is a relaxed kind of exchange that happens between two people when there’s no pretense.
K: Um hum, um hum
A: And it seems like to me, those are the most moving, the most meaningful, most important moments in life.
K: Why? I’m not disagreeing with you but why?
A: Yeah, yeah, it’s funny. I mean it feels like in a silly way that’s where love is, that’s where like to… I guess it’s the existential thing. It feels like two souls can like come together without any sort of barrier or boundary and somehow there’s completion, or not aloneness, or transcendence in some way that feels like it’s the root of my motivation in a lot of all the things that I do in life, um, and I guess that’s probably part of the reason why I have such an obsession with like art and creativity and things like that because it feels like the sole purpose of those things is to generate that kind of an experience for people.
K: hum, um.
A: So for me it’s like the most important thing for an artist is to understand how to do is tap into the authenticity and then share with the world that experience.
K: Um hum
A: So other people can feel that too.
K: You know it’s interesting. Our senses, as we improve them, we sense authenticity and creativity on subtler and subtler levels now, now one may might believe that there is an essential creativity that’s within the fabric of the universe or a type of micro uncertainty.
When you get very proficient at something you start to get distinctions that bring an individual nature into whatever they do you know if you’re very sensitive. For example, at one point I did a, a certain type of what you might call an athletic pursuit, um, you, you people have a very unique way of doing it. No matter what level they are, there’s a personality that comes through someone that who sings opera. There’s something even if two voices sound identical, the phrasing when you become sensitive to those things you find this individualism that pops in and they can’t hide it even if they try to be inauthentic they are individual in their inauthenticity.
K: It’s a fingerprint. You know that fingerprint that shows that there’s another soul to us that the individual exists so a lot of times when we, we might see creativity in something, it’s because we haven’t developed the distinctions. But with respect to art and an artist, the thing that’s wonderful about art especially, what I would call potent art, is their expression and impression, and with potent art, we get an impression of something. It impresses us, a type of way that indicates a human was there or something intelligent, something not scientific was there and it’s not to say that scientific things can’t be awesome, but what you might say true, true beauty, or what you might call authentic beauty unencumbered by structure and authenticity has a type of structure to it, or I should say a lack thereof where as in inauthenticity is a structure. Inauthenticity is a type of blocking.
A: Um hum
K: It’s a type of calculated or structured block and the essence of authenticity is what you might call pure naturalist naturalness and although naturalness is sort of enrobed in structure, often when you get to something that’s authentic it, you experience this type of creativity, this, this soul, um, and it’s a soul that’s not necessarily the soul, the human, it’s the soul of a living thing you know, So you can have, um, you know, a lawn that is manicured a certain way and very, very precise, or you can have wildflowers and although wildflowers aren’t as even and cut and maybe even functional sometimes, there’s something just incredible about the naturalness of it. Naturalness and authenticity have this, this parallel, but you don’t talk about flowers so much being authentic, we talk about humans being authentic, and the authentic human is a natural human, being natural in what they’re doing,
End of excerpted interview.
Raniere Word Salad
Yes, my friends, this is some of the best word salad I ever heard. Even the New Age Bullshit Generator could take lessons from this guy.
Here are a few of my favorites:
We strive to break through a type of existential isolation.
There is an essential creativity that’s within the fabric of the universe or a type of micro uncertainty.
They can’t hide it even if they try to be inauthentic, they are individual in their inauthenticity.
True, true beauty, or what you might call authentic beauty unencumbered by structure and authenticity has a type of structure to it, or I should say a lack thereof where as in inauthenticity is a structure.
Inauthenticity is a type of blocking. It’s a type of calculated or structured block.
The essence of authenticity is what you might call pure naturalist naturalness.
Although naturalness is sort of enrobed in structure, often when you get to something that’s authentic it, you experience this type of creativity, this, this soul, um, and it’s a soul that’s not necessarily the soul, the human, it’s the soul of a living thing you know.
Allison Mack in Love
In addition to Raniere’s splendid word salad, there’s also moments when Allison is speaking when it seems that what Allison is really crying about is her hope that she and Keith could be soulmates. Maybe this is the reason she gave up everything to follow this ass clown.
She is looking for authentic love from Keith, a man utterly incapable of loving anyone.
She says, in between Keith talking his inane drivel, what is really a revelation. She wants him and only him.
Allison says: I don’t know why that makes me want to cry. it’s beautiful I think…. Is so emotional for me? …. I don’t know cuz I think it seems like, ah, something that I feel like I want it, um, authenticity and I think, I mean–.
I think that there is a relaxed kind of exchange that happens between two people when there’s no pretense….
And it seems like to me, those are the most moving, the most meaningful, most important moments in life….
Yeah, yeah, it’s funny. I mean it feels like in a silly way that’s where love is, that’s where like to… I guess it’s the existential thing. It feels like two souls can like come together without any sort of barrier or boundary and somehow there’s completion, or not aloneness, or transcendence in some way that feels like it’s the root of my motivation in a lot of all the things that I do in life.
Can There Be a Happy Ending?
Yes, it’s sad that Allison was motivated by her love of Keith Raniere, her desire to escape her aloneness, as she calls it, her search for her soulmate, her desire to transcend the world and its tinsel puff of name and fame, and this led her to this monster.
She will suffer for it for the rest of her life. But maybe one day – and she is only 37 – she could find someone – other than Raniere – when she gets out of prison, which in her case will probably not be too long, and find peace and happiness. I hope so.
She is a simple creature, but chances are she did not grow up wanting to become a sex slaver as an adult.
She got caught up in it and maybe, perchance, an element of mercy is indicated for this lost fool who thought Keith Alan Raniere was so good and pure that when he told her to be a beastly demon she followed right along thinking she was on the side of the angels.
“Allison Mack in Love”
BS, this is a psychological reaction to the mental abuse…if you don’t what a woman in love looks like, i pity you…
Allison was authentical BEFORE nxivm and i suspect it’s the real Allison that is once again fighting against her own self (due to the mental abuse, numerous EM, and other things this monster put her through).
You ignore the fact that shows it but psychologist pointed this (of course, it’s less interesting than pointing finger at her, right?)
Allison said here:
-“i don’t know why i’m crying”
but she also said other things through time like
fighting with her viscera to accept certain situations, feeling like there is 2 Allison (and i can confirm that one of them,the real Allison, as nothing of a monster)…
She also talked about being tired of being told how to feel (back in june 2017)
These point show that Allison was fighting against her own gud feelings, her own thoughts and this isn’t a first in Nxivm…
Amongst those who committed suicide, one of the victim pointed feeling like and empty shell, a robot without feeling and it was due to Nxivm…
Once again, you pretend to be “investigative reporter” but you are neither as you never paid attention to the other side of the story.
The fact that for more time than she was in Nxivm, Allison was an exceptionnal person, beloved by her friend and adorable…
But she was having a real poor opinion of herself (that why she prefered to listen to KK or Lauren rather than her own guds).
Even once she was highly manipulated by the monster, she continued to be the least violent,aggressive member of DOS (it’s coming from the only REAL victim recognized for Allison, Nicole…she was a loving person)
But here again, you ignore the manipulation she was going through herself!
Coercion is clear , her collateral were found and published by DOJ…Starvation is also absolutely clear (and it started LONG before the other victims).
Sleep deprivation was confirmed by Nicole and the same Nicole pointed that in the end, the order came from the text messages…so Raniere told what to do and Allison was barely transmitting the message…
Mostly because Raniere was playing the innocent outsider but that doesn’t change that the moment Allison wasn’t ordered to ask something, she was nice to Nicole.
You also ignore your own accusation against Raniere…like the drugging and the poisoning.
All this has an impact on her mind and she was fragile (with a poor self esteem).
The only culprit here is Raniere and Allison is nothing more than one of his victims.
And it wasn’t love for Allison…i actually also suspect she was fighting against this mixed feeling of “i don’t love him, he is nothing i love” and “why do i feel like i have to love him” or if she was conscious enough ,something closer to “i don’t want to be near that freak”
Reminder to demonstrate this…
Where was Allison between november 2016 and june 2017?
Where was Allison when Raniere moved to Mexico?
For the first, she was mostly away in LA with her family…
For the second, she was spending most time away from him and was seen close to him only the last day of Raniere’s freedom…
Nicky was spending her time in mexico but Allison wasn’t
The day before the arrest, she was in LA (again) with a friend…she was at the Beverly Hills hotel (if i recall properly what the friend said).
But did you point about this? no because you searched to make her the monster…
And even when authorities demonstrate that she wasn’t related to the creation of the branding, you continued to pretend that she was behind!!! and they have a record showing it’s Raniere’s work!
Anyway, i’m not going to even try to change the mind of a fool like you about things you’ll never understand (unless it’s going to bring clicks).
“She will suffer for it for the rest of her life”
Because of asshole like you, she is trying to heal from the damage but everytime you can, you try to drag her in the mud (and this while blowing false affirmation or twisting facts)
Mack is a convicted felon, based on real evidence. Case closed, at least until additional charges are made.
I agree with you, Anon Feb 27 @ 12:03. So many reasons Allison is not half as guilty as the rest — some whom have not been and may never be charged.
I don’t know Allison, of course, but anyone like me who’s witnessed NXIVM devolve over decades knows the position she was baited, jostled and shoved into — AND where she might well have ended up even had she opposed them like Dani Fernandez — who is also lucky to be alive — did.
Marie, thanks again for your work in transcribing this. I’m interested in trying to figure out more about how Raniere thought and worked, so I set this aside to come back to and read again before commenting.
The first thing that strikes me is that Mack starts off skipping past Raniere’s never having comes close to answering her initial question about what creativity is or how to cultivate it, as I noted in my commentary on the previous piece.
The next thing I see is that Raniere’s thought – if fit can be called that – is lacking reference to anything really profound like transcendence. Interestingly, Mack does bring the term in, but Raniere doesn’t really address it, and I suspect that, as a shallow psychopath, doesn’t even know how to deal with the really deep issues of our humanity. He strikes me as just tossing around – in a way that’s really sort of robotic – concepts and generalities he’s picked up reading, or in in discussions with others who actually have seriously read works of thought and philosophy.
I can see better now why Mack is brought to tears, but in part it’s just Raniere’s practiced technique of manipulation. He uses the same sort of heart-tugging material, said at the right moment, as those sets of questions designed to “help you fall in love” – which have been researched by sociologists and psychologists, and really do have an effect when structured and delivered in a particular way. Again, it strikes me that he’s being rather inauthentic himself; there’s certainly no moment at which he’s personally revealing, and his one anecdote is just another of his shallow attempts to impress with reference to an “athletic pursuit.”
There’s not anything about it that is really all that interesting, much less impressive, even from the sort of forensic view of trying to understand a cult and its leader – it’s all pretty mundane and banal, more of a transaction between a con artist and his mark, of the sort that storefront psychics also pull off. I’m left wondering, does this conversation reveal that Raniere is really just being an inauthentic robot, a psychopathic sex addict with little human insight or free will?
Interesting that Heidi keeps seeing Keith use things that Gina introduced him to. It’s like Keith had a good memory and would save impressive sounding phrases/ideas/sound bites to systematically use against his marks. And we were all his marks.
In the Grace Park interview of Keith, I found it funny when Grace interupted Keith’s well planned out story he was telling in order to share her own thoughts. Grace was trying to interact in a back and forth conversation like most normal people do. Keith didn’t know how to go off the cuff with her. As soon as she stopped talking long enough, he had to awkwardly transition back to his story and attempt to finish his point. But alas, the momentum was gone.
That story of Keith’s began with him dropping the question along the lines of “It won’t take long. I can share it with you, if you want?” This was his go-to line and go-to question to make it seem like he WAS going off the cuff. But, in reality, he planned everything and that story was going to be told. Probably, never in his entire life has anyone said “Nah. Keep it to yourself.” He’d use that line to get him into his planned script.
This doesn’t really fit here, but it has to do with the workings of Keith’s mind. Remember Frank telling the ridiculous story of how Keith was going to give an expensive seminar to 100 SOPish men, but only if the SOP leaders could get 100 men to come to it? They ended up with something like 98 or 99 men that had paid an arm and a leg to hear the great Vanguard and had flown in from around the world to hear his majesty. Keith then cancelled the day of or the day before the event because the SOPs didn’t fulfill their obligation to get 100 attendees. That showed a total disregard for NXIVMs reputation, NXIVM’s finances, and for the SOP saps organizing the event. Keith used his own shifter strategy of saying “in the name of ethics”, I’m not doing the seminar. The real reason he backed out was probably something as simple as he wasn’t prepared to do it, or didn’t want to. I’ve seen him fall on his face in front of a crowded room when he wasn’t prepared. He was probably well aware of his shortcomings.
Interesting – I saw it more as narcissistic. I don’t think he listened to GP at all. His uh-hums were just placeholders while he waited for her to shut up so he could finish what he wanted to say. She was just window dressing. I think that may be why she seemed disengaged; it’s not comfortable to be talked at when you were expecting a two-way discussion.
That’s exactly true of Keith, Nutjob — his word salad was often really a regurgitation of some catch phrase he’d heard from a girl he was pursuing that he’d use to hook in more and more of them.
He used them all like that through generations but I’m still shocked at how often I hear of something that unmistakably refers to Gina and her friends from back in the day.
I do fear that Keith wanted and still wants the same outcome he had with Gina to befall ALL his acolytes. Destroy, destroy, destroy one way or another and the ones he was most successful with at that are the ones he most used as a pattern.
That’s why Catherine Oxenberg — who noted in her book that Keith seemed stuck in the ‘80s — and others sensed a potential Jonestown scenario ending if NX is not fully stopped, as well. It’s what the Rational Inquiry curriculum is about.
I agree. When you add in how he was so into poisoning, it’s messed up…
Thanks for those insights!!!
I wish you shared the “deep novelty stuff” more often.
‘Sense of Agency’ as understood in Psychology:
“Your ability to take action, be effective, influence your own life, and assume responsibility for your behavior are important elements in what you bring to a relationship.
This sense of agency is essential for you to feel in control of your life: to believe in your capacity to influence your own thoughts and behavior, and have faith in your ability to handle a wide range of tasks or situations.
Having a sense of agency influences your stability as a separate person; it is your capacity to be psychologically stable, yet resilient or flexible, in the face of conflict or change.”
This is exactly what Raniere and his minions worked to extinguish in their victims.
It also worked very effectively on this website with all of the scared anonymous commenters. LOL
You weren’t around for the “Milton, Paradise Lost” and Mormon/religious discussions on Free Agency, Paul — when Raniere was obviously directing Marc Agnifilo (his lawyer) to talk about free love and sex in the Garden of Eden before the infamous “Fall of Man” — so, FYI, the free agency vs. robots theme Raniere defaults to often is something central to Mormon doctrine that Raniere used to seduce young Mormon or religious (Virgin) girls struggling with their sexual identities and liberating themselves from strict upbringings.
Raniere may have also gotten wind of the ‘free agency’ concept from psychological studies.
In any case, you’re correct that Raniere quite deliberately used the concept of or innate desire for free agency to manipulate and enslave his acolytes — to do exactly what Lucifer wanted to do in Milton’s (and Mormon) lore.
Thanks for your comment. I’m going to look into the psychology on free agency more.
Yes, it’s been a goal of many people and moment to get free will out of the way. Thaks for pointing me towards some useful information. I always appreciate that
Your surprisingly gentle words for Allison at the end here do seem genuine or “authentic,” Frank, as does Allison’s moment of breakthrough tears in this video.
When I first watched this KAR video on You Tube, the movie “Get Out” — roughly about sex slaves with brain transplants — was popular. Allison’s moment reminded me of the scene where a slave entrapped in the brain of an imposter encounters his old friend and cries, “Get Out!” from the bottom of what’s left of his soul.
That could be where Allison “was at” at the time NXIVM produced this video. Her sudden “authenticity” seems to baffle — almost frightened — Keith, in fact.
Btw, the authenticity-creativity philosophy Keith’s sputtering is, of course, not at all unique but stolen from several sources including one of Gina Hutchinson’s papers for Robert Garvin’s philosophy class at SUNY Albany.
With all due respect, Heidi, Allison’s tears are orgasmic tears of joy for being in the presence of her beloved Vanguard.
There’s a saying that applies specifically to Allison Mack: “You can’t fix stupid.”
That’s very funny, Shadow, considering how many FR readers have tried to fix whatever’s so obviously gone haywire with you over Allison Mack.
And it’s also obviously not stupidity in your case…far as I can tell. Lol.
Take the effort to read the lawsuit that has been filed by 80 plaintiffs against Allison Mack.
Filed by Neil Glazer, an attorney in a law firm that has represented plaintiffs in sex and human trafficking cases before.
Everything that I have said about Allison Mack is true.
Allison Mack is guilty of :
Heidi, why you see fit to defend a Ghoul like Allison Mack says more about you than it does me.
Neil L. Glazer
Neil L. Glazer joined the firm in January 2000. Neil received his B.A., summa cum
laude, from the University of Pennsylvania in 1990, and his J.D., magna cum laude, from
Harvard Law School (1993). Prior to college, Neil owned and operated a satellite
communications company and he provided audio and video projection services for live
Heidi, did you graduate magna cum laude from Harvard law school?
Since joining the firm, Neil has represented plaintiffs in human rights, antitrust, toxic tort, consumer fraud, securities, international terrorist finance and other complex class and non-class litigation
So Heidi, did Neil Glazer make up the allegations against Allison Mack?
Scores of NXIVM Victims Sue Former Leaders for Human Trafficking
The lawsuit seeks compensation from NXIVM founder Keith Raniere and members of his “Inner Circle,” including heiresses Clare Bronfman and Sara Bronfman and actress Alison Mack, for fraud, forced labor, human trafficking and for conducting unlawful medical experiments.
Neil Glazer should thank his lucky stars he has a sick fuck like you waving your pompoms for him
Shadow actually knows the distance and exact location of the closest sex shop to Allison Mack’s residence.
Whenever I look up a celebrity’s address, I always check to see where the closest sex shop is in relation to the celebrity’s home.
There is nothing abnormal going on is there? Wink-wink 😉
Don’t you do the same, Heidi?
I forgot to mention Shadow posted the closest sex shop to Allison’s parents home.
Totally normal thing to do!
Movies, your sister, Hutchinson hardly ever talks about anything else. Let’s talk Amway. LOL
Question for “L”…
When you fell in love with Keith and fornicated with him decades ago, here is what he looked like:
So I’d like to ask you, what made you fall in love with this chubby, ugly, dweeb of a man?
He looks more like an overgrown and chubby boy in that photo, rather than a real ‘man’.
Didn’t you have access to any taller, handsome or ‘manly’ men to date?
How could you copulate with a fat slob who didn’t take regular showers?
Plus he had square feet, which were smelly, thus how did you manage to kiss his feet without vomiting?
Plus according to your own admission, he cried and threatened to kill himself if you didn’t give him enough attention. Yet you still loved this mentally ill, chubby slob.
Thus, you knowingly loved a man who was:
1) A chubby slob
2) Ugly as hell
3) Geeky looking
4) Mentally ill
5) Cried and threatened suicide
6) Smelly and didn’t bathe regularly
7) Not handsome at all
I can only imagine that your self esteem was rather low back then.
How did you maintain any self respect when people saw you in public with this chubby slob?
How did your friends treat you for not having a better looking boyfriend?
For that, I feel sorry for you.
Have a nice day.
“A I don’t know why that makes me want to cry it’s beautiful I think. I’m sorry. [Allison becomes teary eyed.]”
It is because you are authentically a moron, Ms. Mack.
I couldn’t get past the first two paragraphs – so much bullshit it’s legit too painful to read.
Gotta give KR some credits. She knows how to speak to these women kinda like the pick-up artist who is good at his trade.
KR gets no credits. For anything. There’s nothing credit worthy to manipulating and lying your way into the pants of women or into screwing up the lives of others for your own selfish needs. A drug dealer who killed people to get to the top of his trade can buy a fancy house and Bugatti. So can a poor kid who grew up to be honest businessman who made himself into a multimillionaire. Who do you think earned it? If you’re an ends justifies the means kind of person, you see no difference. You’re also a fucking idiot and a moral imbecile.
I honestly think that if someone warm and kind took an interest in Allison she could become a decent productive woman again. I am serious when I say I believe Shadow is that person. If he could forgive her and show genuine love, she might become the better angel that she persuaded millions of Americans she was when she was a beloved star. I’m not being sarcastic. Shadow, you are so brave and wise. Would you take Allison under your wing? You don’t have to have a romantic relationship. Just help her?
I think Mack would rather spend a lifetime in Jail, than one second of time with Shadowboy.
Didn’t they use to go out with each other and she broke up with him ?
“Didn’t they use to go out with each other and she broke up with him ?”
I have never been to Clifton Park, Saratoga County or Vancouver, another Hotbed of NXIVM Nuttiness.
After reading the Frank Report I doubt if I will ever visit Saratoga County.
And since Ms. Mack is on the verge of indigence with a huge law suit facing her, a career in ruins, a criminal record and a reputation as a pariah, I doubt that many eligible males will view her as a prime catch.
Billy Preston – Nothing From Nothing (1974)
Nothin’ from nothin’ leaves nothin’
You gotta have somethin’ if you want to be with me
Nothin’ from nothin’ leaves nothin’
You gotta have somethin’ if you want to be with me
I’m not tryin’ to be your hero
‘Cause that zero is too cold for me, Brrr
I’m not tryin’ to be your highness
‘Cause that minus is too low to see, yeah
Nothin’ from nothin’ leaves nothin’
And I’m not stuffin’, believe you me
Don’t you remember I told ya
I’m a soldier in the war on poverty, yeah
Yes, I am
Nothin’ from nothin’ leaves nothin’
You gotta have somethin’ if you want to be with me
Nothin’ from nothin’ leaves nothin’
You gotta have somethin’ if you want to be with me
You gotta have somethin’ if you want to be with me
You gotta bring me somethin’ girl, if you want to be with me
The Google will tell you that Saratoga County is generally a much nicer place than Cook County.
Among other things, the violent crime rate is less than half.
And Chicago has the Nation of Islam, a much larger, and in some ways much nastier, cult than NXIVM ever was.
Or do you just like living where there is lots to complain about?
No. From what has been learned is that Shadow during his NXIVM time apparently was more interested in celebrity stalking instead of learning the ways of Raniere. He was kicked out after Allison complained to her master about Shadow’s creepiness.
“more interested in celebrity stalking instead of learning the ways of Raniere. He was kicked out after Allison complained to her master about Shadow’s creepiness.”
So Allison Mack was not interested in Raniere’s creepiness.
Keith Raniere, who was as creepy as Rasputin and Charles Manson put together , was normal to Allison Mack.
Keith Raniere a man who advocated sex with children and urged the enslavement of women was not regarded as creepy by Allison Pimp Mack.
Now we know why Allison Mack is awaiting sentencing and faces a huge law suit.
Picture of Allison Mack contemplating the Vanguard’s wisdom about pedophilia.
Picture of Allison Mack contemplating the Vanguard’s wisdom about rape.
Picture of Allison Mack contemplating the Vanguard’s wisdom about sexual slavery.
Mr. Shadow could REALLY f*ck her up. LOL
Frank Parlato and Catherine Oxenberg tried to reach out to Allison Mack through her parents and through her manager and agent.
Allison Mack ignored them.
If Allison Mack wants to change, she has to do so on her own.
Let’s examine the inner dynamics of NXIVM with respect to Allison Mack and her many feuds.
1.) Allison Mack pushed her way into NXIVM’s Inner Circle elbowing aside other women like Lauren Salzman and Nicki Clyne.
Alison Mack’s aggressive pursuit of Raniere created much ill will.
2.) Much of Mark Vicente’s in court testimony dealt with the feud between Allison Mack and Vicente’s wife Bonnie Piesse.
Ultimately Raniere had to step in and resolve the feud.
3.) One of Allison Mack’s friends was Siobhan Hotaling.
But Allison liked to take out her frustrations on Siobhan and use her as a figurative punching bag.
What was Siobhan’s ethical breach?
The openly gay Siobhan refused to sleep with Raniere and that jeopardized Allison’s standing in the Inner Circle.
4.) Allison Mack had a dispute with Esther Chiappone Carlson.
How did Esther offend Allison Mack?
Esther is an older woman and a long time member of NXIVM.
Esther is not overweight but she has a woman’s body.
And Esther’s refusal to pare down into the body of a 12 year old girl offended Allison Mack.
5.) Allison Mack even had a dispute with Clare Bronfman over who would be the Master of India Oxenberg, a dispute which Allison ultimately won.
Allison Mack’s multiple feuds prove Mandy O’Brien of Bombard’s Body Language correct.
Alison Mack is “emotionally immature and mentally stunted.”
Let’s examine at the testimony of “Nicole” and “Jaye” in the trial.
When women did not follow Allison Mack’s orders, she gave those women very nasty nicknames.
Allison Mack called one woman “The Princess.”
Allison Mack called another woman “The Brat.”
Allison Mack’s ultimate abuse of other women was the branding of those women with hot irons and the collection of blackmail material to control those women.
Blackmail material that has yet to be returned.
Ultimately, NXIVM was like a high school for “Mean Girls” and Allison Mack was the Meanest Girl of them all.
Did you spend time looking all of that up, did you know it off the top of your head, have you kept records of Mack’s behavior, or some combination of the above? Regardless of which of the above, you are quite a work of art. LOL
All of those instances I cited are from stories in the Frank Report or, in the case of Mark Vicente, court testimony.
Scott, you might try to develop your mind and memory instead of ranting about Amway.
I use my memory for FAR more important purposes than memorizing the Life of Mack. LOL
Then she should do well in prison.
Prisons were designed for people like Allison Mack.
And that is why her next acting gig is “Orange is the New Mack.”
Again, changing reality to fit your narrative, let’s examine your claims.
1.) Allison Mack made his way into the NXIVM Inner Circle, leaving aside other women like Lauren Salzman and Nicki Clyne.
The aggressive search of Alison Mack de Raniere created much ill will.
R-tell me Shadow at what time this happened, at what point allison had more power than Lauren and Nicky, show me the evidence, so every reader of Frank Report knows is that Lauren’s testimony made it clear that the 8 first-class women line responds only to KAR and therefore they have the same power and leadership, also Lauren is in NXIVM, green belt and Allison and Nicky are orange, on the other hand Daniela Fernandes testimony says that KAR and only KAR determines who enters or leaves the intimate circle, so competing with each other does not change the leadership roles or the level of confidence that KAR has in them, ask the Fernandes sisters any of them struggled to make their way into the inner circle.
2.) Much of Mark Vicente’s testimony in court concerned the dispute between Allison Mack and Vicente’s wife, Bonnie Piesse.
Finally, Raniere had to intervene and resolve the dispute.
R- Raniere had to intervene because Mark asked for it, and it was not a dispute. Allison had a hostile attitude towards Bonnie, but her reasons were never exposed and according to Vicente Raniere forced her to accept that she wanted to destroy her wife, which leaves To understand that Vicente was not sure if that was the truth or not.
3.) One of Allison Mack’s friends was Siobhan Hotaling.
But Allison liked to take out her frustrations with Siobhan and use her as a figurative punching bag.
What was the ethical violation of Siobhan?
The openly gay Siobhan refused to sleep with Raniere and that jeopardized Allison’s position in the Inner Circle.
R- the story originally published in the comments section and then presented by Frank says so, but Lauren’s testimony gives another light on this episode, according to Lauren Siobhan and his girlfriend wanted to have a baby through artificial insemination Raniere believed that she I would ask her to be the donor, but she knew that she did not want and that offended her, so she complained as the diva she is, she made those in the inner circle claim Siobhan for her supposed ethical gap that made her look that she did not consider Vanguar a decent dynante for his son, so this was not an allison thing exclusively.
4.) Allison Mack had a dispute with Esther Chiappone Carlson.
How did Esther offend Allison Mack?
Esther is an older woman and a longtime member of NXIVM.
Esther is not overweight but has a woman’s body.
And Esther’s refusal to reduce the body of a 12-year-old girl offended Allison Mack.
R. Here a clear sample of your bad intention to the public diatribe continues on allison altering the facts in your narrative, the dispute with Esther was NOT about its own weight if not, in fact about the weight of allison, Esther was worried that allison I was losing a lot of weight and that besides she and other women were in hunger and bulimia, Allison told Esther “you want me to look like a vallena”. so as you see shadow you continually try to change the facts with your narrative as if the other readers did not read.
5.) Allison Mack even had a dispute with Clare Bronfman about who would be the Master of India Oxenberg, a dispute that Allison finally won.
R- This alleged dispute has never been confirmed, it was only said that India Oxenberg, did not want to be a slave to Clare Bronfman and preferred Allison, but in light of the evidence and testimonies presented during the trial it is clear that Clare Bronfman was not part of TWO .
NXIVM was like a high school for “Mean Girls” and Allison Mack was the meanest girl of all.
R if she was the baddest girl of all, as Lauren said that the things that were done in DOS were always under the orders of KAR and they all did, and on the other hand the story of the Allison dispute and Siobhan says , “Allison unloads all his frustration and meanness against Siobhan just like Lauren, unloads all his frustration and mischievousness against Allison” sounds very different doesn’t it
“Allison unloads all his frustration and meanness against Siobhan just like Lauren, unloads all his frustration and mischievousness against Allison” sounds very different doesn’t it” Anonymous
What it says is that NXIVM is a criminal gang filled with very nasty mean back-biting people and Allison Mack fit right in with these people rising quickly into the leadership with her own brutality and cruelty.
Allison Mack’s mental problems transcend her relationship with Raniere.
shadow as usual, evades direct questions, as usual when you disassemble your biased and deliberately crooked claims, so that history changes in favor of your rhetoric, it looks so much like Raniere himself.
Marie White deserves a medal for transcribing these profound utterances from the Vanguard.
“Marie White deserves a medal for transcribing these profound utterances from the Vanguard.” Sheriff Moonbeam
She sure does.
I can barely listen to the word salad.
Shout out to Kristen Kreuk for recruiting her friend Allison Mack into Nxivm. As I try to tap into this meaning of authenticity …hold on…this salad isn’t fresh, waiter!
No, really he’s a big dumb kid. Robots? Does this thing have a soul? Why?…is it feeding time? Allison answers her own question in the 1st paragraph but wanted to know if he feels the same way. Obviously, it’s impossible for him to answer a simple question. I believe the tear is more manipulative than bad acting. He bought it though. You can tell they desire each other. At one time, their hands were very close to touching.
“Shout out to Kristen Kreuk for recruiting her friend Allison Mack into Nxivm.“
Allison dug her own grave. Plenty of people who were recruited didn’t fall into the same trap.
“Allison dug her own grave. Plenty of people who were recruited didn’t fall into the same trap.” Anonynmous
In the end we are all responsible for our choices.
Frank, I see your point on Allison because I’ve been there with Raniere and his babble on soul mates, souls connected through time, yada yada. But I think the sticking point is when someone is willing to actively and deliberately harm another human being at Raniere’s request or in pursuit of his attention. That is where either conscience steps in (and starts to reveal the monster under all that “I’m a spiritually advanced creature” crap) or criminality occurs. I know I sometimes hurt people under the influence of Raniere’s lies and manipulation – where I could apologize and repair things, I did. Hurt feelings are one thing; what occurred in DOS is far beyond that scale. If nothing else, making someone a slave without them understanding who the ultimate owner is… there’s a world of difference between a master/slave version of sex play which implies informed consent and knowingly using blackmail (oops… “collateral”) to enforce cooperation. Allison should serve time for her criminal actions. As of yet, I don’t think I’ve heard any true remorse or even any “authentic” understanding of her culpability from her. I guess we’ll see at her sentencing if she’s done any authentic soul searching.
And incidentally, if the great guru’s theories are correct and my soul is drawn to his in the next life… I’m planning on kicking the crap outta him on sight.
Something tells me you enforced cooperation as well as using other tactics to facilitate Raniere’s criminal behavior to suit your selfish needs. At least you’re trying to get your karma in check. Interestingly, you want to see Allison pay and suffer further, which means you are still struggling with your own inner demons. You want forgiveness but do you know how to forgive? Sorry “L”, but all of you former nxians are fucking batshit crazy. No worries “L”, I’ve been called crazy as well. Thanks for sharing and many blessings in your journey to make right the wrong you did while being manipulated by Keith.
I’m not a former Nixian – I’m from far back in his past when he was just an abusive boyfriend. Like I said, I hurt some feelings – not criminal acts. If you’ve been reading FR, you’d have read what I shared of my long ago past with the creep. Sounds like you’ve got your own shit to deal with – don’t project it onto me. Good luck with that.
Yeah, I remember you wrote about a sandwich with no meat. At first, I thought we were going to get something interesting to read about your ex-boyfriend. Maybe you could try again and give us a better look into who he was. Take Toni Natalie lead minus the lies.
I do not feel the need to share my life story here. Like I’ve said before, I shared everything with the FBI and whatever James Odato needed for his TU story. Mine’s just a story of shit man, shit relationship, too bad, so sad, stop whining. Thousands of women walk away from abusive relationships – my ex just happened to keep expanding his abusive tendencies into criminal ones.
L, do you have any proof of your relationship? Pictures would be great. A love letter or something. Your very vague in your story so I find it hard to believe you without proof. Its seems as if you just copied the story that was already written about Keith hiding in the bathroom. You left out important details to the story surrounding your own events with him. To me, it seems inauthentic. It lacked substance and originality so much that Scott Johnson didn’t even invite you on his radio show, which could be a red flag.
I shared what I chose to share. I have no intention of putting up pictures of myself or offering up proof. You can choose to believe what I shared or not – it’s no skin off my nose.
And I can’t help it if Raniere has no originality. He’s been playing these same games for a long time – just got more grandiose and vicious as time went on.
Nobody is perfect. But friends stick by each other. Through anything. Doesn’t mean you have to join what. They join. Is it me or does she look as beautiful as she did on Smallville? People are 18. They choose to do what they want. Nobody has the right to tell somebody what they can do or can’t do. We all have to live by what we do. I don’t judge people
I don’t judge people, either. I just tell the facts. LOL
Mack doesn’t “do” authentic. She can act authentic, but never be authentic. She’s too f*cked up.
I have asked you a legit question at the top of this thread.
Do you have the courage to answer honestly and truthfully?
Have a nice day.
Eh? Not seeing any question, Banger. If and when I see one, I’ll choose whether or not to answer it based on what you’re asking and how it’s asked. Baiting me with “courage” is just manipulation – and that’s just likely to make me laugh and walk away.
I get it. Your so-called, ex-boyfriend Queef, wouldn’t kiss your sweet little ass so you laughed and walked away. How about pretty please black out your face and show a picture of you two love birds.
Please write another story. You could say what attracted you to him or what you two did for fun. What made him mad or you could elaborate on the so-called abuse. Was it physical abuse or mental abuse. Did he have a pet?
Yes – he had a pet. And I’m done talking to you.
Unfortunately, there are toxic trolls here that just have to be ignored. In this case, they almost seem to want to discourage you from commenting here – that would be an interesting agenda, with the underlying question of who would be behind it.
Thanks for your contributions and insight, L.
I am not approving dozens comments lately that just seem to appear for the sole purpose of putting down commenters and trying to inhibit their comments. If a comment is just a put down of another commenter it is not likely to be approved anymore.
Re agenda for trolls –
In my case, quite possibly someone who knows (or suspects) who I am and wants to confirm it; or wants to insure I don’t expose them in any way; or wants to protect Raniere’s image since it is hard to let go of that when you’ve acted as a shield for his behavior for so long (or perhaps abetted that same behavior).
second that AM
Well, apparently Frank won’t approve my other question for L.
Frank is a free speech hating LEFTIST ASSHOLE.
His forum is too highly moderated.
It takes half a day just for a ‘short’ post to get approved usually.
…and it can take days for a longer post to get approved, at which time it won’t be seen anymore cuz the article is too deep on the main page. It’s Frank’s way of letting certain posts not be seen.
Frank’s forum is now a joke and it’s getting annoying. It was better 18 months ago when he just let us post quickly.
Fuck you, Frank.
I hope you have bad luck later this year and get ass cancer to boot.
You’re too keen on managing what gets posted and what doesn’t.
GO TO HELL FRANK cuz Jesus thinks you’re a BUTTHOLE!
L is officially my favorite.
Bangkok is searching for a new girlfriend. Answer the god damn question or no dick for you.
Answer my question: 5ft chick vs 747-Labia Lady?
The irony of a fraud discussing what it means to be authentic. It has to be one of the simplest of concepts to understand because it’s simply another way of saying truth. Something is authentic when it is true to what it presents itself to be. An authentic Picasso painting is one actually painted by Picasso, not one painted by someone else, or produced by a machine that can make a copy of it. An authentic teacher is someone who actually knows the truth of the subject material and passes it onto his students. An authentic act is one that confirms to its intention. An authentic person is someone who does what they say, even if it may not conform to what is objectively right or ethical. An authentic true love or soulmate is someone who doesn’t put others above the beloved nor waste years of their time. And so an authentic love for the truth is putting it above everything else.
Everything that is not such, is inauthentic: i.e., a fraud, a sham, snake oil, a liar, etc.
Authentic is using your real name when posting on this website.
No dummy. That this blog allows anonymous comments has nothing to do with a question of authenticity, which needs a frame of reference or context. Also dummy, because you use your supposed real name here when you often post, doesn’t mean you’re not posting here anonymously too. And if you are, the fact that you call out others for doing what you do yourself would make you a giant hypocrite and, thus, inauthentic to your word as it conforms to your actions.
“Authentic is using your real name when posting on this website.” Scott Johnson
Like in Communist China where the Secret Police monitor everything you write.
Like in the Colonies when the REAL men signed the Declaration of Independence with their REAL names. They KNEW they were dead meat if they were ever captured, but they signed it with their real names anyway.
This isn’t Communist China, it’s AMERICA. Frank has been using his real name for five years and me for almost two years and nobody has sued us or done anything else to us, as far as I know. Stop being so wimpy and stand up and be proud, act like American free people with a Constitution that guarentees rights, not a Chinese slave.
Our Founding Fathers would be ashamed of all of the cowards writing anonymously on this site, and we have the numbers that would make the Bronfmans’ head spin with the cost to go after all of us, not to mention not being willing to withstand the discovery that would result. LOL
You using your real name is not bravery, you are using it for free advertising. You need people to know it so they can find you and go to your website and radio program.
I’m not advertising, I’m educating others about Amway and other MLM scams. Why is your skull so thick that you don’t get that? LOL
and Frank should be charging you for all of that advertising btw. most forums would ban you for all the self-promotion.
I’m not advertising or self-promoting, I’m educating others about Amway and other MLM scams…assuming they have half a brain and don’t think I’m advertising and self-promoting. LOL
“Like in the Colonies when the REAL men signed the Declaration of Independence with their REAL names.” Scott Johnson
Scott, Do you mean brave Founding Fathers like Ben Franklin who used numerous pen names?
“Silence Dogood, Harry Meanwell, Alice Addertongue, Richard Saunders, and Timothy Turnstone were a few of the many pseudonyms Franklin used throughout his career. ”
From your link, “During the eighteenth century, it was common for writers and journalists to use pseudonyms, or false names, when they created newspaper articles and letters to the editor. Franklin used this convention extensively throughout his life, sometimes to express an idea that might have been considered slanderous or even illegal by the authorities; other times to present two sides of an issue, much like the point-counterpoint style of journalism used today.” Which of the above is your reason for not using your real name? When you run out of answers, check the color of your belly. It’s bright yellow.
But thanks for making my point, the purpose of the Declaration of Independence was signed for quite different purposes. It was FAR riskier than posting comments on this website, yet you’re too scared to sign your name. That sound you hear is the Founding Fathers rolling over in their graves. LOL
I’m sure those with just half a brain actually don’t think you are advertising or self promoting. I have no doubt that is true. People with a whole brain think otherwise. And to answer your question, I have a thick skull because it needs to hold my bigger brain. Why do I know my brain is bigger? Well, for starters, it wasn’t stupid enough to sell Amway.
In regards to Johnson, he has a mental problem. I don’t care what it is. But, he uses his Amway chivalry as a cover to get what he really wants. He wants others to feel bad in order for his pathetic life to feel a little less bad to himself. Do your best not to get sucked into his shit. I’m speaking to myself as well as others.
Frank will not kick Scott off of the site. The best we can do is protect new commenters from him by exposing his pattern of behavior. His pattern of trying to hurt others on message boards began years before he discovered and fell in love with Frank Report. I’d use an LOL to mock him, but his destructive game is anything but funny.
Your anonymous name, Nutjob, says it all. LOL
I don’t want anybody to feel bad, I want them to “feel” (i.e., LARN) the facts and the truth. LOL
Why should Frank kick me off his site? He believes in the First Amendment and open discussion of various points of view. He has told me the Amway/MLM scam stories have raised his readship numbers. What’s wrong with educating people about Amway and other MLM scams? LOL
She got what she wanted. She was his # 1, the only one to intertwine her initials with his in the non-transparent brand.
The one to have him as her direct master. She shared him with others yes, but still was always scheming to be his #1. Have you seen her acting? She was the best actor on Smallville? She far and away exceeded everyone else’s performances with her facial expressions and she could cry on a dime.
When I see her tears in this interview and when she sings “I love you” to him on stage, all I see is fake manipulation, acting for her role as Keith Raniere’s number #1 sidekick. A long audition to keep her top spot, to gain his devotion. All that time Keith played her. He knew what she was doing and he loved being chased, holding back enough to keep her acting skills sharp for him. It was a long long slow screw against the bar between these 2.
Catherine Oxenburg (sp?) made it clear in her book that Allison wanted to be Keith’s #1 and as she sent him slaves to please him she also was very jealous of those same slaves and, thus, vindictive and cruel towards them. I’m not seeing the sympathetic side to Allison Mack. I don’t see her as a simple creature simply getting caught up with a beast. Allison Mack, just like Lauren Salzman, wanted what she wanted, wanted who she wanted, and did it all for herself. Throw the book at her, please!
Ultimate irony? She became her lover’s ultimate #1 sidekick, sharing charges and sharing a potential trial with him until she was forced against her will to break away from him, to save herself from his sinking ship. But don’t be fooled, she would have stayed on board and continued sharing that long ocean voyage with him if she could’a had it her way. Instead, she lost him but held on to her obsession, having a nervous breakdown, not from remorse but from the love of her life leaving her side and floating away into the abyss.
Two pretentious phonies discuss “authenticity.”
This is the ad that popped up towards the end of the story: https://www.theartofshaving.com/shaving-products-shaving-kits/ULTIMATEGROOMINGXPHR.html?utm_source=TheTradeDesk&utm_medium=Native&utm_campaign=Evergreen&utm_content=Prospecting ULTIMATE GROOMING BUNDLE! LOL
Raniere can really pour on the crap word salad, and Mack bought it, hook, line, and sinker. I got the impression she was looking to be the best actress ever and Raniere was going to provide the secrets on how to accomplish this goal. The funniest part is when she tries to dish some word salad back on him and fails miserably. So much for learning to be “authentic.” LOL
She needs to stay in prison for as long as possible, she needs the time to come back to reality and to protect society.
You should go with her because both of you are mean spirited and degrading to others, not to mention naive.
Poor little soy-boy (or girl) snowflake, melting away in a single drip. LOL
Exactly what you’re dad said when the good one dripped down his leg 🃏
You are SO brave when you’re anonymous. LOL
How very Dirty you rat!