By Heidi Hutchinson
The HUGE difference between Lauren Salzman and Allison Mack is that Lauren — and her family (she’s the daughter of NXIVM co-founder, Nancy Salzman, of course) — were company PRINCIPALS who all benefited financially and had long-held insider knowledge.
Allison was targeted and recruited for her celebrity — late in the game — long after the Salzman’s witnessed the results of the poisonous program they administered — on my sister, Gina Hutchinson — who died —on Kristin Snyder — who disappeared — on the many others who suffered loss of mind, means and spirit along with, for some, their childhood innocence.
Allison lost her future — her career, her child-bearing years, her reputation and some say her own will and identity.
Lauren may have lost those things too, but Lauren did so far more freely and willingly.
Lauren was in on the grift — born to it. Her sister, Michelle — who wed Ben Myers — the true love of the Mexican girl, Daniella, Lauren enslaved and endangered — was born to Nancy Salzman, as well.
Nancy passed on her cult recruitment and indoctrination skills and techniques to both her daughters.
Lauren’s sister, Michelle, recruited Ben Myers — seducing him away from Daniella Padilla — who was forced to watch while imprisoned by Lauren.
Ben Myers was a needed cog, an IT guy willing to hack and fraud. [Ben replaced Daniela as the chief hacker in Nxivm].
Ben, Lauren’s brother-in-law, financially benefited.
He was in on the grift.
He lied to the police to set-up NXIVM whistle-blowers in the computer trespass case, before Allison joined DOS.
Allison was recruited, seduced by Lauren herself. Lauren used the Bronfman jet and name to literally reel her to Albany in style.
Allison was sex trafficked by Lauren, Nancy and Clare Bronfman.
Allison was coerced into Keith’s bed through lies and deception.
Lauren knew what she was hooking Allison — all her recruits into. She testified that she was likewise deceived by Keith — but long before she reeled in Allison.
Allison was financially and emotionally fleeced, and shorn of her spirit — as surely as were the Fernandez girls — who were also recruited BY Lauren herself — under false pretexts, through emotional blackmail and high pressure sales tactics — all the tricks that Lauren used to entrap and enslave.
Lauren had malintent. That’s obvious. She and her Mother, her entire clan, well knew what ill-fate Raniere had in store for his victims. And they benefited.
Allison’s crime was believing for too long that she was involved in something empowering and good — that a judge, a court, a jury, anyone would find she “took one for the team.”
Allison should receive the lighter sentence.
Lauren could be put on par with Raniere himself.
But Nancy Salzman, who did not cooperate with the investigation — as Lauren ostensibly did — and who betrayed all other defendants by holding them back while she slipped into first position on taking a “plea” — though giving nothing in return to prosecutors — deserves the strictest sentence besides Raniere’s of all.
Clare Bronfman was indoctrinated and robbed by Nancy Salzman, and possibly others, who convinced her to invest in and undertake their Keith Raniere’s, cause. A cause Salzman knew was fraudulent from the start.
But let’s keep in mind that it was Lauren – endorsing Raniere, Lauren and Clare and Nancy – and Sara Bronfman – all telling Allison that Keith was the most wonderful man in creation – that helped sway Allison.
Allison never met Keith until all these women – led by Nancy and Lauren – had told her what a genius, what an ethical and spiritual man Keith was.
Had they not lied – [even pretending that he was a celibate when all of them had slept with him] Allison might have had an entirely different turn in her life.
The women – including especially Lauren Salzman – were despicable in the case of Allison Mack.
Frank Parlato & everyone else,
RE Ben Myers and Michelle Salzman sighting & money?
I was at a concert event in New England about a month ago. My wife and I were seated in the front row. A few seats away sitting also in the front row were Ben Myers and Michelle Salzman.
I waited a month or so to post this comment because I did not want to give them the opportunity to accuse me of made-up bullshit.
The front row tickets were about $300 a piece.
Knowing the cost of the tickets made me wonder: How do Ben Myers and Michelle Salzman have any money left?
BTW: Ben Myers and Michelle Salzman are actually both better looking in person. Now I can understand why Dani liked the dorky looking guy. Michelle is not very photogenic.
I did not take a picture because my wife said she would kill me if I did so.
I hope the day will come when none of the Salzmans has the nerve to show their ugly faces in public.
The same holds true for all of the top people in NXIVM.
I see Ben as googly eyed for Taylor Swift, but no way he could get through her facial recognition security. I’m voting it was Fleetwood Mac.
You would know; Is Michelle Salzman better looking in person?
It’s often said that Mack was subject to “being broken” by Raniere. That collateral or blackmail was used against her. Etc.
Mack wasn’t with Raniere near as long as L Salzman. If Raniere’s mind games are to be given such influence over Mack, then surely Salzman was at an even greater disadvantage. Practically her whole life was that community. Mack, on the other hand, had options. People outside, a career outside, financial freedom for a time.
While I have little doubt Salzman enjoyed her role and her power and only questioned her future when she was displaced by Mack, I don’t believe it elevates her or diminishes her in comparison. Mack, by testimony and her actions, held out as long as she could. I’m not convinced she has had a change of heart of her education by Raniere.
Mack was, after all, Number Two in the end. A role both women gladly accepted. Salzman was right there with her when their Vanguard was arrested.
Mack stopped being a victim long ago. Salzman possibly crossed back as she repeatedly teased the idea of leaving. I think at times she understood it could just as easily be her expected to stay in a room for years.
Who is more or less guilty is open for debate. The victims of each would make strong arguments that I could not say otherwise too. Mack really does have “the girl next door” thing going for her that people want to believe in.
RE Allison Mack’s Mind Set:
Frank Parlato in a number of various articles has brought up the fact time and again that Allison Mack did not have the opportunity to testify at Keith Raniere’s trial. The court only heard from Lauren Salzman.
Even the even-keeled and analytical Leon Festinger has more sympathy for Lauren Salman based off Lauren’s emotions giving testimony and somewhat from Lauren’s descriptions of Allison Mack…..
The whole truth does not always come out or get illuminated at trial…Sometimes the light is only shown on what the prosecution and defense highlight just a simple narrative…..
the whole story is not fleshed out completely.
As Frank Parlato has mentioned before, Allison Mack may never get a fair chance to tell her side of the story. The trial cast Allison Mack in a very bad light. Had Allison Mack had a opportunity to testify things may have been different.
I think Allen Mack is guilty of some crimes. However, she is not murder and she is not Satan or the worst of Nxivm.
Keith Raniere, Clare Bronfman, and Nancy Salzman occupy the top 3 spots of Nxivm’s most evil members.
You raise a valid point concerning my being sympathetic to Lauren Salzman and it is as a direct result of reading her testimony. I do believe the two women deserve the same punishment. I also believe the elder Salzman should be given a sentence greater than either of the other two women. I recognize she was not directly a part of DOS, the branding or blackmail collection but I believe she helped form the idea of the group’s collecting the most private secrets of its members and used her expertise in therapy to use those fears and secrets to manipulate members. For so many, the consequence of having that blackmail released to the public kept all subjects either in line or spending more money for more courses.
I agree with you.
Regarding Allison Mack having power over others; I am sure on some level she enjoyed the “power”, if only because others had power over her.
Mack having some power may have made her feel more in control of her own situation; And ameliorated her own feelings of being a victim on an unconscious level.
I am definitely not a psychiatrist, but during the era of American slavery, slaves elevated to overseers, were still slaves, and even more incredible brutal than even the plantation owners.
In other words the overseers power on some level ameliorated the fact that they themselves were slaves.
The overseers enjoys the power on some level just like Allison Mack in a sad twisted way.
Good points. It is also the reason why hazing still exists today and, in some cases, has escalated. It can also speak to why people who have been abused become abusers themselves. There are definite cycles to violence and coercive behaviors. Allison was also always striving to impress and please her Master.
“time and again that Allison Mack did not have the opportunity to testify at Keith Raniere’s trial. ”
I believe that the US DOJ finds Allison Mack to be too detached from reality to give credible testimony and they chose to make their case without her.
“I believe that the US DOJ finds Allison Mack to be too detached from reality to give credible testimony and they chose to make their case without her.”
…..Then by your own admission and belief, Allison Mack is criminally insane.
Did you know that when Whitey Bulger was a young inmate at Atlanta Federal Prison, he was given LSD by the government and afterwards became much more violent?
Whitey Bulger was a victim driven to insanity by government mind control experiments!
Whitey Bulger is a Victim!
Everyone is a Victim!
“I-Team: Whitey Bulger’s Notebook Chronicles LSD Prison Testing”
I am from New England so I know all about Bulger and his shithead, corrupt brother.
Bulger killed two women. In the end, Bulger received the justice he deserved.
I would have preferred he died after serving a year in Federal maximum prison hell.
In your universe where everyone is a victim, the US government by giving Bulger LSD when he was a young inmate in a Federal Prison victimized him.
Where is your compassion for a young man whose brain was screwed up in a government medical experiment?
And Bulger killed at least eleven people, not just the two women.
Bulger was all ready a hardened criminal by that point…..duh….
Bulger killing men is one thing. Killing women in heinous ways deserves death!
The Salzmans – like the unsuspecting women and others – should be coerced to change their names to the Sleazemans. They knew everything, participated in this sham, and enabled the con artist for nearly two decades. Fuck them.
if Mack had made some different choices, she could have joined her co-stars Kreuk, Durance and Vandervoort at the SMALLVILLE Super Women Panel instead of awaiting sentencing.
Kreuk is not entirely clean. To suggest she knew of no wrong doing whatsoever would be false. She claimed she never “experienced” any wrongdoing, not that she didn’t know of any. She has not faced any scrutiny regarding her role so far. A lot of questions remain unanswered.
If this was the case, the prosecutors, FBI, police, etc., would have investigated her and somebody would’ve heard about it, including Mr. Parlato.
Actually, most people who knew about bad and illegal things were not investigated. That does not make them innocent. The authorities would have only investigated those whose names were dropped by Sarah Edmondson and Mark Vicente. Put her on camera with a no-bullshit questioner and let’s see what happens. Nothing about that is untrue.
Plenty of dirty deeds done by nxivm members that have not been charged or arrested for. Just because they have not been taken down yet doesn’t mean that their hands are clean. I believe Kruek is lying and knows a lot of what went on.
I don’t know what country you guys are from, but this is not how the American justice system works. If the authorities suspect a person of any legitimate wrongdoing, they contact his representative(s) and/or call him in to be personally investigated. They don’t call in a person just because you or anyone else might have a hunch or suspect him of dirty deeds or the like. In the US legal system, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty. It doesn’t presume guilt or assume the person knows bad or illegal things unless those who are its representatives have information to warrant further investigation of the said person. If this was the case for Ms. Kreuk (or anyone else for that matter), then surely someone would have known that the authorities contacted them and asked them questions at least. And if something like this did in fact happen, then I’m sure Mr. Parlato would likely know of it. Since I am not aware of something like this being related here or elsewhere for Ms. Kreuk, it can be presumed that the authorities never contacted her or didn’t care for her involvement in NXIVM as far as anything illegal was concerned, which implies that she didn’t do anything wrong enough to warrant legal action against her, or she could not provide any information to help their case.
If the authorities don’t know who someone is or what they did or knew about, then they wont think to investigate that person. Not being investigated or considered for investigation does not make you innocent or naive to any wrongdoing. It’s not hard.
Sarah Edmondson and Mark Vicente are the two likely people who according to Frank Parlato asked Kreuk to help fight NXIVM as she was a big part of the NXIVM fabric. There would be no other reason for them to ask her if she was just a passive course taker like she wants people to think. She said NO in cowardice.
It is extremely unlikely they dropped Kreuk’s name to the feds and even IF her name came up due to press attention, they would put a good word in for her. The feds were after the top leadership. Only some have been charged. Most have slipped through the net. Kreuk’s fame, the thing that helped legitimize the NXIVM cult and fight off bad press, is paradoxically the thing that makes it impossible for her to hide as quietly as the others.
Your Erotomania Delusional Illness means that while someone can explain this to you, it can not be understood for you. Maybe you can find someone with stern patience and crayons to explain it to you.
More serious than the crimes the Feds charged KAR and the others with, was the possible crime of luring underage girls into KAR’s sex cult thru GBD by Kreuk. Because the Feds did not even mention GBD in the trial, they evidently found no truth to this rumor. And like other rumors of evil deeds Kreuk knew of or did this one is just as unsubstantiated.
Kreuk is more likely to win an acting Oscar than ever being charged with anything.
She is clean lol only Frank was pissed not to have any blackmail on Kreuk to help him fight his lawsuit
Susan Dones said that Allison had sucker written all over her face when she walked into her first NXIVM weekend in Vancouver. If all it took was one weekend of fake flattery, fake bonding, and a ride in a private jet for Allison to start drinking the kool aid, people can’t blame collateral or diets for Allison’s poor decision making.
Lauren may have been the initial love bomber, but according to Allison’s roommate, it was Barbara Bouchey who put Allison “under her spell.” The roommate said that it was three years of “how wonderful Bouchey was and how she was so great with business.”
Didn’t Dones also say that Allison turned over her money to Bouchey. If true, that means after less than three years of being introduced to NXIVM, Bouchey had worked her poisonous NXIVM magic on Allison. Maybe Heidi needs to rework her article to include Allison as being a victim of Bouchey more than Lauren or maybe at least both of them.
Allison wasn’t viewed as leady lady material in her chosen profession, but apparently NXIVM was more than happy to feed Allison’s craving for that status. Once Allison left her Smallville bubble and found that she wasn’t the desired / hot commodity her small but vocal and vicious online fandom led her to believe she would be, I imagine she found her star status within NXIVM quite the ego boost and made her very easy to manipulate.
Also if Allison really believed that DOS was a wonderful thing for women, she wouldn’t have lied about Keith’s involvement and what the whole program actually entailed including the severe diet, the branding, and the sex.
Either Allison Mack is a stupid, naive woman, a sheep living in a pack of wolves, or she is an ambitious woman willing to abuse and exploit other women in a quest for power.
I lean towards the latter scenario.
Remember the story how Allison Mack put down Esther Chiappone Carlson because while Esther was thin, she wasn’t thin enough to be a top member of NXIVM.
Fight Over Calories Caused Nxivm Slaver Allison Mack to Attack Slave Sister Esther Chiappone
Esther and Allison fought for control over Jness and Allison won out.
Remember the story how Allison and Clare Bronfman were rivals for influence in NXIVM and Allison, being more popular than Clare, won out.
Female Insider: Allison – Clare rivalry works well for Keith at a time like this
And to some degree Allison Mack pushed Nicki Clyne aside as Raniere’s most devoted follower.
I didn’t know Barbara Bouchey personally until after she left NXIVM — however, from what I do know now, I’d like this comment.
Barbara did confess to me that she “managed” Allison’s money and when I once asked her how she managed to LOSE it ALL — frittering it away on NXIVM courses and subleasing properties to other NX members like Brandon Porter — Bouchey became very defensive.
Barbara always falls back on her sob story about lending Keith her own life savings to gamble and lose in the stock market but she certainly made up for those losses by money managing NXIVM clients like Allison Mack and the Bronfmans.
If there’s not a law against one’s money manager being one’s amateur psychotherapist, “self-help” mentor, there should be.
How did i know that the shadow investigator would disagree with that as according to him Allison is the devil reincarnated and nobody done more evil than her
Don’t you know that Keith Raniere and ALL of his followers, including Allison Mack, are Luciferians?
NXIVM is the Temple of Lucifer.
That’s why the sadistic Allison Mack enjoyed burning women’s flesh with hot irons.
Keith Raniere Admits He Is a Psychopath in Shocking 2007 Article in Spanish Magazine
Fucking relax dude. Get a grip.
“Fucking relax dude. Get a grip.”
Girl Scout Cookies:
That’s what I am going to tell you when Trump wins his Impeachment trial in the Senate and then is reelected.
The real Shadow!
If anyone is wondering what the real Shadowstate1958 looks like, he looks like the woman in this video. The real Shadowstate1958 is dumpy, pudgy, with light colored hair a square head and wears ugly glasses. The real Shadowstate looks like the brother of the woman in the video. I am not joking. Try and deny Shadowstate1958 you are a hypocritical joke.
Since you focus on superficial issues like my looks I will describe them as more Mediterranean than Nordic.
I could easily pass for Spanish, Italian, Greek, Jewish or even Hindu Indian.
And my brother’s nickname in high school was “Rabbi” even though we are not Jewish.
I am not dumpy.
In fact I am over six feet tall and weigh 180 pounds.
And when Donald Trump was ELECTED President I was not writhing on the ground but was quite happy.
And I will be even happier when Donald Trump beats the impeachment witch hunt in the Senate and gets reelected in 2020.
Keep America Great!
SHADOW IS THE SULTAN! I knew it! Enough with your aliases, Sultan! No wonder “shadow” and Anony are two peas in Allison’s pod.
November 12, 2019 at 6:08 pm
SHADOW IS THE SULTAN! I knew it! Enough with your aliases, Sultan! No wonder “shadow” and Anony are two peas in Allison’s pod.”
If I am the Sultan I have to apologize to the pig for the bacon sandwich I ate today.
Who the heck is talking about the impeachment trial? I bet you couldn’t go an entire week without posting something.
😀😀😀😀😀😀😃😃😃😃😃😃Shadowstate you look like😀 😀😄you come from the Oder 😀😀😀River region in Europe. 😀😀
😀You have a mustache!😀
Individual commentors now
doubt the veracity of your statements; And can no longer tell when you are kidding or using sarcasm
Things have gotten to this strange kind of point where commentors ask themselves, “is he serious or is he kidding”? They question your mental faculties.
An example of people’s confusion:
…..”Don’t you know that Keith Raniere and ALL of his followers, including Allison Mack, are Luciferians?”
Girl Scout Cookies commented,
“Fucking relax dude. Get a grip.”
I personally thought you were kidding, maybe using a little sarcasm, myself.
Shadowstate is GirlScoutCookies right or am I right concerning the nature and intention of your statement above?
One person in the right is a Majority of One.
All of the top members of NXIVM are Luciferians.
You would not shake hands with the top NXians without counting your fingers afterward to make sure none of your fingers were taken off.
Well, GirlScoutCookies is right: you need to “get a fucking grip”.
I believe the following quote should become your mantra…..
“Of course I’m crazy, but that doesn’t mean I’m wrong.”
-Robert Anton Wilson
First Hesse, now Robert Anton Wilson – NiceGuy, what good taste you have my brudda!!!
Hess I am familiar with, and Wilson not at all, admittedly.
One of my favorite writers has what I believe to be the best quote for living of all time…..
” Anyone can get through an emotional crisis it’s the day-to-day living that takes it’s toll on us.”
Couldn’t Ben Myers be charged with anything?
Yes, Ben Myers could have been charged but part of Nancy Salzman’s plea deal probably let him off of the hook.
“Allison lost her future — her career, her child-bearing years, her reputation and some say her own will and identity.”
She still has some of those…her reputation is bad over here because of Frank supporting some idiots but she still has a lot of people who understand what happened (instead of making a stupid story about her liking it)…
As for her will and identity, she got those back…
Luckily, the effects of the diet are mostly reversible and without anyone to manipulate her, so is the mind control from Nxivm.
“Allison was sex trafficked by Lauren, Nancy, and Clare Bronfman”
This is actually more accurate, I agree…Allison was poor and powerless (since she entered DOS) but Lauren, Nancy and Clare, not so much…
They had control over many things and knew about Raniere’s behavior.
Yet, without the pressure of coercion, they supported him for so many years…
“Allison’s crime was believing for too long that she was involved in something empowering and good — that a judge, a court, a jury, anyone would find she “took one for the team.”
That is not a crime in itself so why should she be punished…And honestly, with the coercive part, the law is supposed to properly handle the situation and add an extra redeeming factor.
She is a victim of this, you admit it, so is it fair to punish her?
What was proved against Allison? she collected the collateral…It’s a crime, yes but is it really her crime when she had a “gun” on her head?
We know she was doing it on the order of Raniere…we know he had serious collaterals on her and we know he was using threatening as one of his many weapons.
Allison, did she act by herself at one point in the crime she is accused of? no! we know she was just following orders…and while she was coerced!
She is deserving of jail time for being a victim?
“Had they not lied – [even pretending that he was a celibate when all of them had slept with him] Allison might have had an entirely different turn in her life.”
Actually, it’s not just Lauren…It’s KK who pushed her toward those ladies…granted, she could have been in the same situation as Allison (without coercion)…
But Allison trusted KK and she trusted her so much that she ignored her own gut feelings.
I precise this so that Allison doesn’t just look like a crazy deluded girl who is excessively naive. She was down to earth and far to be stupid but fail to believe in herself.
She would trust way more her friends for decisions than her gut feelings.
Some say it’s attention-seeking, needing approval for everything, but in reality it’s just a lack of confidence.
So in other word, I agree with much of what is said but I don’t find fair to see Allison receiving any kind of sentences as she was obviously the scapegoat and in the end ,she had done little crime (but collecting collaterals and under coercion).
I really feel like the fair way to sentence Allison is to release her now…she paid her whole life with this shit and she lost her career.
She lost her freedom to the cult and is now home confined for a year and half.
She paid more than she should have!
The US Criminal Code does not take into account loss of reputation for being a sadistic criminal.
That is mere collateral punishment.
Hard core criminals like Allison Mack are supposed to lose their reputations.
“What was proved against Allison? she collected the collateral…It’s a crime, yes but is it really her crime when she had a “gun” on her head?”
Stop calling it “collateral”.
It is BLACKMAIL MATERIAL pure and simple.
Collection of BLACKMAIL MATERIAL is part of SEX TRAFFICKING.
Moreover, collection of blackmail material for the purpose of extortion is by itself a crime.
By your use of the word “collateral” you expose yourself as a follower of NXIVM and Keith Raniere.
I also hope that we will have her back soon and hopefully people will stop bullying her and leave her alone so that she can heal from all this!
Mack decided to plea guilty, so she’s either much more of a perp than you’re willing to admit or got very bad advice from her lawyers.
If the effects of dietary and mental control are “reversible,” then Mack had plenty of opportunities to get away from it, stop doing wrong and change the course of her – but never did. Even when she had that long break in San Diego, she was still chiding Lauren Salzman for not being tough enough with her own slaves.
Given that she waited until the end to plea bargain, it’s still not clear that she has seen the error of her ways, and isn’t even still a danger to society – we don’t even know that she wouldn’t rejoin her wife in Brooklyn and try go back to sex slaving, given the chance. Speaking of which, why hasn’t she divorced Clyne, if she’s really fully over her NXIVM involvement?
You pretend to have insight into Mack, but don’t really seem to be able to adequately explain why she did what she did.
The only conclusion, is that she still needs to spend some time in prison.
Go off, Sis.
The Salzman clan (still haunting Halfmoon) is due for this close inspection. Anyone who thinks they have have remorse is delusional. They are only sorry that they got caught.
The constant debate here regarding the rubes who were taken by the Raniere/Salzman scheme is tedious. The Nxivm/ESP/etc. grift was all Vanguard and Prefect on top. Ok, maybe Nancy was under in her way, but she did, without doubt, know. Halfmoon is a small world. And the whole thing about using jealousy as control is key, with the Salzmans as gatekeepers.
I reckon that Pam, Karen, and the rest of the old lady gang were rather submissive. The Salzmans decided that they were going to control. Ah, the irony.
Moreover, thank you for including Ben’s “penis not in pants” Myers as part of the whole grifting, sociopathic scene as this bs about the loser men who supported the Salzmans’ low rent empire need to be in the spotlight.
You hit the nail on the head, Heidi.
There is a reason why people born into gangs join gangs. We all like to think that everyone is hard coded to chose the societal path and all the others are just outliers. But when your parents are in a gangs or are bank robbers that is who you see as you model for behavior. The same goes for those being brought up inside a cult. If anything, Lauren is more a victim then Allison Mack.
Is it an excuse? No. We still put these second and third generation people in prison when they commit a crime but to say Lauren is even in the same league as her mother is a mistake.
I agree that Salzman is more of a victim than Mack because she was exposed to NXIVM at a much earlier age than Mack, and also believe she committed more crimes over a longer period of time than Mack.
yup. Lauren is a rather slippery slimey little piece of shit that helped enable this whole fanciful farce. Seems like her sis Michelle kind of flew under the radar in comparison to the others, but in the end, both of Nancy’s precious little daughters turned out to be just like her, the queen toad.
Really great article, Heidi! 😊
I’m going to disagree on this. In my opinion they both deserve more than the couple years that it’s been said they might get. What they both did was horrific, damaging and illegal. Salzman at least agreed to testify while Mack kept silent. Mack,as it’s been said, was in charge of running DOS. Mack made choices, she had full knowledge at that point of what was going on and perpetuated the abuse.
Salzman was betrayed by her mother. The psychology of a mother standing by, watching, and enabling her child into this lifestyle is abhorrent. Didn’t Salzman, in her testimony speak of asking Raniere if he was sleeping with the ‘slaves’ and he said no. Isn’t it possible that Salzman is telling the truth and had no idea until events unfolded as she testified? The fact she chose to testify speaks volumes. The fact that Mack chose not to, speaks louder.
The irony of denial is, really, refusing to accept reality as it is right there. This was in insular community under tight control, but if you think people did not speak amongst themselves…come on.
Pam Cafritz was very good at control.
Prefect Nancy was so tightly wound and striving that she floundered– thought she could control the women. Wanted and created her own successor: our fallen angel, wicked Lauren.
I get that Lauren is broken in her way, and really, I think she took the fall for her mother, who sedms to have been quite the head of the pre-DOS ladies auxiliary.
Mack may not have had a choice whether to testify for the DOJ. They may not have wanted her to testify and potentially conflict with Salzman’s testimony, which could have ended with a confused jury and a not guilty verdict. The fact that Salzman “chose” to testify may have been a “no deal” option from the DOJ, in other words she would have to face all of the charges against her in a trial, just as Raniere “chose” to do, as he may not have been offered a very good deal or no deal at all. Salzman kept the girl imprisoned for a couple of years and Mack ran DOS, so it’s a tossup which is worse.
I read this in a PageSix article. Seems like Allison wanted to testify. Does anyone know if the prosecution offered her or did she ask for the same cooperating agreement with the prosecution that Lauren did?
From PageSix (https://pagesix.com/2019/06/26/allison-mack-was-ready-to-testify-against-nxivms-keith-raniere/);
“The 36-year-old pleaded guilty earlier this year to charges of racketeering and racketeering conspiracy, and then began speaking with prosecutors and was prepared to testify against the Svengali-like guru, according to multiple sources. Though Mack didn’t enter into a formal cooperation agreement like co-defendant and fellow sex slave Lauren Salzman, she was considered a “cooperator,” sources said.”
The explanation I’ve heard here and I think makes the most sense is that it was a risk the prosecutors didn’t want/need to take. The cross examination may have led to the defense trying to dump the blame on Alison (she did “admit” to being the DOS mastermind).
Message to Allison Mack:
“All That Glitters Is Not Gold.”
Just because the Bronfmans fly around in a private jet and live in big mansions does not make them any more moral or righteous than anyone else.
In fact it might be a sign that their fortune consists of the ill gotten gains amassed by their rapacious grandfather, Samuel Bronfman.
“Yet Lauren lied to Allison and told her that Raniere was a celibate.” Heidi
Heidi, if you read the book “Captive” by Catherine Oxenberg you will see that no sensible person would confuse Keith Raniere with a celibate.
In fact Allison Mack was not interested in Raniere for his celibacy.
Allison Mack was scheming with Dani Padilla to collect Raniere’s “Sacred Sperm” to impregnmate themselves and bear Raniere’s future avatar baby.
Why do you think the women of NXIVM were running around calling Raniere “Thor” as if hhe were some kind of Nordic God?
All of the top women of NXIVM wanted to bear little avatar babies named “Thor”.
“Allison never met Keith until all these women – led by Nancy and Lauren – had told her what a genius, what an ethical and spiritual man Keith was.” Heidi
Actually Heidi, Allison Mack had plenty of opportunities after she met Raniere to learn that Raniere is a fake and fraud.
Apparently once Allison Mack met Raniere she turned her brain off and never turned it back on.
“Allison on the other hand blew through her entire savings, made next to nothing in Nxivm.” Heidi
Heidi, the police do not exist to protect us from our own stupidity.
We must protect ourselves with our own vigilance.
Earlier this year I related the story of an acquaintance who foolishly gave away his bank account number to an internet “girl friend” and ended up with his bank account looted.
When this dunce told the police what he had done do you know what the cops’ reaction was?
The cops laughed at him.
People have to protect themselves.
“Allison was financially and emotionally fleeced, and shorn of her spirit ” Heidi
Heidi, Allison Mack quickly learned from her NXIVM friends how to defraud people.
I looked up the tuition charged by Allison Mack’s Acting School “The Source” for a summer school session compared with similar programs offered by Stella Adler and the Actor’s Studio.
Allison Mack was easily charging twice the tuition as more established schools like Stella Adler.
“How Dr. Porter and Allison Mack worked to recruit a teenage girl to the sex slaver cult of NXIVM”
May 20, 2018 at 8:03 pm
It is $8000 until April 18.
$8000 to $10,000 for acting lessons with the Sarah Bernhardt of our time,Allison Mack.
“Superman, save me!”
What does the Stella Adler School charge teens?
From the Stella Adler website:
Teen Summer Conservatory – Now Enrolling!
5 Weeks, $3250
Monday-Friday, 30 Hours a Week
July 9 – August 10, 2018
But I’ll bet Stella Adler doesn’t teach about female empowerment through sexual slavery.”
“Allison lost her future — her career, her child-bearing years, her reputation and some say her own will and identity.” Heidi
Heidi, for all of your weeping and wailing about Allison Mack no where do I see any weeping and wailing for the one hundred plus women in NXIVM DOS who were branded and blackmailed by Allison Mack and turned into sex slaves.
Those are the victims I am worried about.
Those are the victims the FBI is worried about.
For someone who enjoys researching as much as you apparently do, Shadow — and I’ll admit I often enjoy your research, too — how is it you still so often get your facts wrong?
Thanks for the link on the Porter emails. They prove, in fact, Porter used Allison’s celebrity name and acting class to lure a 17 yr. old girl by trying to trick her mother, an old school acquaintance of his, into the cult to undergo his “experiments” — a tool to “break” young women into sexual submission.
They do not prove that Allison was up to anything at all other than offering her acting classes and it’s a damn good thing for the girl her Mom couldn’t afford them — they were mercifully overpriced. Not a crime, btw,
Maybe Allison meant to help Porter earn some commission on selling Source classes. The emails also call into question how many others besides Allison — who knew better than Allison — were diehard recruiters and that unlike Porter, Allison did not use the same deception, flattery, etc. Porter did to recruit.
It’s creepy that Porter targeted this very young girl, yes, but Allison didn’t know of her or her age or her mother’s email address or what the Mom wrote on her FB posts that made Porter feel so connected to her.
As for Dani and Allison plotting to extract Raniere’s superbaby sperm, allegedly, that would only take some planning and effort were Raniere a celibate renunciate as Allison first believed he was. Again, your own facts fail you.
“Allison did not use the same deception, flattery, etc. Porter did to recruit.”
Yes, she did, as court testimony indicates. There was a reason these people chose and deleted their victims!
As you know, Keith did the whole build up/break down
Heidi, you ask Shadow how he often gets his facts wrong.
I might not quite be the person to comment on this— I read Shadow’s frequent postings for their (usually unintended) comic value—but do you think that when it comes to Ms. Mack it is possible that the still OBSESSED and INFATUATED Shadowstate is not doing his best work?
SS58 must have some confusion somewhere because anyone who only gives away their “bank account number” can only be paid money unless they gave additional login details otherwise, or even their bank card info. No other way unless CVN numbers and passwords are passed on these days.
For those thinking that collecting sperm in any other vessel than the holly grail in one movie, or vagina in real life, it will not last long otherwise in an environment full of natural bacteria and yeast. But it does take 30 minutes to “settle out”.
Allison Mack was financially involved with Brandon Porter.
Allison Mack loaned Porter money to help him buy his house.
Porter’s recent bankruptcy wiped out his indebtedness to Allison Mack
“Dr. Brandon Porter files bankruptcy; human fright doctor now selling insulation”
“Dr. Porter also lists $60,000 in debts to “family and friends” but does not disclose who those friends and family members are.
Sources who know Allison Mack and Dr. Porter say some or most of the $60,000 was lent to Dr. Porter by Allison Mack.
One expert on bankruptcy said Porter may be seeking to shield inquiries about the money he owes Allison Mack. By Porter discharging the debt, Allison will not have to list the money she is owed by Porter on her financial disclosure form with the court since Porter no longer legally owes the money to her. This may reduce her restitution amount since her assets will be lower.”
By helping Allison Mack recruit this California girl for Allison Mack’s acting school Porter was helping repay the loan he received from Allison Mack to buy the home.
In truth Allison Mack and Brandon Porter had a symbiotic financial relationship.
They were both leeches seeking to feed off of this teen age California girl and her mother.
You need to understand that at an early* adult age AM was set for life. She probably came from a life that was average beforehand that then earned her the opportunity to fund another life or so on the same coin and then some. She could probably buy houses like her Ma and Pops house, and the Porters and whoevers without issue. The fact is she had money.
But the fact is if she just gave out her bank account number all she could do is just collect more money surely?!
*Early under the concept most people pay mortgages until near retirement age. I understand her retirement was also paid for at a young age too.
“She could probably buy houses like her Ma and Pops house, and the Porters and whoever without issue. The fact is she had money.” Inception
Let’s update your statement to match Allison Mack’s new reality.
Because Allison Mack is too stupid to enjoy her good fortune without torturing and hurting other people, she not only lost money to the Federal government in a RICO case, she also faces lawsuits by her numerous victims.
If you don’t believe me, then ask the attorney Neil Glazer who represents Allison’s victims.
Most people who enjoy good fortune also have the great good sense to enjoy it in ways that do not harm others.
Allison Mack is not one of those people.
Allison Mack is a sadistic woman who is bored with good fortune and has to demean others to enjoy it.
“if she just gave out her bank account number all she could do is just collect more money surely?!” Inception
Does money grow on trees?
If Allison Mack gave out her bank account number, then she is truly a very stupid woman.
In any event, her many legal problems have depleted her bank account.
Nobody has enough money that they can just give out their bank account numbers.
Not even the dense and dumb Bronfmans.
I must give credit where credit is due.
A lot of the research was done by Frank Parlato and his excellent Frank Report.
But some came from the court testimony as well.
From Lauren Salzman’s testimony:
” He (Keith Raniere) first told Lauren that he did not know how Allison and Daniela got the idea that he would sire children for them – and then he admitted it. As part of his constant lying – he wanted them to ask Mariana if he could be the sperm donor.”
So Keith Raniere would be the sperm donor or “stud” to sire all of the Super Babies for the DOS women.
Re Shadowstate’s Nietzsche-esque Theory of Super Avatar Babies from Thor:
“So Keith Raniere would be the baby batter donor or “Baby Daddy” for all of the Super Gingerbread Babies the DOS women would birth.”
Luckily we all have the former academic scholar Shadowstate1958 to explain Keith Raniere’s master plan for global domination and German Lebensraum i.e. NXIVM living space.
Some people can add 2+2 and get 5. Shadowstate adds 2+2 and gets 500.
The alias All of Them Witches may have done an acid trip……
…Shadowstate1958 is an acid trip.
“Shadowstate1958 is an acid trip.”
Well if you’ve got acid, take some Pepto Bismol.
Raniere couldn’t even get it up. Quite the stud. LOL
They say the pen is mightier than the sword SS58 but surely your keyboards must wish for the latter by the way you go on. You need to get out of that bucket of diatribe and into a better place where your blood pressure resides in a much more comforting place.
RE Shadowstate1958 Obsession with Allison Mack:
Shadowstate is now writing his own kind of quasi religious sermons on Allison Mack…..
……”Allison Mack was scheming with Dani Padilla to collect Raniere’s Sacred Thunder Sperm of Thor to impregnmate themselves and bear Raniere’s future Thor avatar baby and build the 4th Reich.”
Maybe, Leon Festinger should spend less time correcting Heidi and more time helping Shadowstate1958?
Niceguy, I was not correcting Heidi. I was debating a point respectfully. I believe there is a great deal of difference between the two. You are correct I could spend some time on Shadow but his obsession is a thing like none I have before witnessed. The man needs some support.
“You are correct I could spend some time on Shadow but his obsession is a thing like none I have before witnessed. The man needs some support.”
So, Leon Festinger, which medical school did you graduate from? The same one that produced Dr. Gastone Porter, aka Nicki Clyne?
Leave Leon alone please. He is one of the normal commentors. Don’t go chasing him off!
Thank you for your kind words.
Niceguy, that comment above the Thunder Sperm of Thor made me do a spit take. 😂
Heidi, I appreciate your point of view and well-thought out argument to see Lauren Salzman receive a greater sentence than Allison Mack. Your reasons are valid. However, I may argue that they should receive the same sentencing since Ms Mack did indeed exert her authority over her own slave pod and did seem to derive some sense of enjoyment from it. I agree she was romanced into the cult by the women but she could have, ultimately, said no.
Unlike your sister, Gina, Ms Mack was much older and had more life experience when she encountered Keith Raniere. I don’t see that Gina had a chance to fight against his hold on her since he was her first everything and he knew exactly how to manipulate her.
It also seems as though Ms Salzman could have experienced real remorse when you look at the testimony she provided at trial. She was more like your sister in that she was plucked at a young age by KAR and pushed at him by her mother; of all things. Her mother trusted this man so she may have believed him to be a man worthy of trust.
Thank you for your counterpoint, Doctor 😉.
As I understand it, however, INTENT is part of the law.
I do not believe Allison intended to destroy the women she mastered. I believe she bought in to the empowerment schtick.
Whereas, I do believe that Lauren and Nancy knowingly carried out Keith Raniere’s intent, which was clearly to destroy.
Both Salzman’s long witnessed this destruction and Continued to participate directly in it and to be rewarded by it.
Allison was one of the women they targeted and destroyed for their own personal gain.
Perhaps she allowed it but inadequately protecting oneself is not a crime.
I don’t agree that Nancy or Lauren ever trusted Keith. They profited by Keith and by pleasing Keith and by covering for Keith.
Lauren’s tears were not for others but for herself.
Allison’s smiles were the bliss of ignorance — the happy face zombie that’s one of the symbols of NXIVM 😝
Agree with your apparent suggestion that Nancy did initially use and deceive her own daughters into trusting Keith and for that she ought be punished more so than the all the others.
Your points are well-taken Heidi and I can see where it can be argued that Allison was so deeply under Raniere’s spell, she may well have believed she was helping the women she recruited into her pod as opposed to hurting them. I’m going to ponder this idea.
I do want to believe Lauren does have remorse for her part in keeping Dani confined and isolated.
I don’t believe the elder Salzman feels any remorse for her part in this whole scheme. If she’s sorry for anything it’s only that she let Raniere over-play his hand and they got caught. I would be interested to hear from people who knew Nancy before she and KAR joined forces.
I don’t even know how much Nancy knew. Keith kept everything close to the vest and what he told one person, he wouldn’t tell anyone else. Just as he knew to keep shady things from Barbara Bouchey, he knew he needed to keep certain things from Nancy. I view Nancy as a figurehead who refused to take a stand, and ended up with her head buried in the sand as all hell broke loose.
I do think Lauren believed in Keith and the avatar bullshit up until the bitter hiding in a closet ending.
“I don’t even know how much Nancy knew. Keith kept everything close to the vest.”-Nutjob
Oh boy, does this mean you will start defending Nancy?
Was Nancy Salzman really just a figurehead who refused to take a stand? I would argue that she saw Raniere as an opportunity and that she is as much a psychopath as he. She was the first medical professional to join forces with him and it appears she used her skills to find the right people to recruit in order to gain both wealth and fame.
It has been reported it was through Ms. Salzman that Barbara Bouchey found Raniere and she was used for her trading ability and her money. She was played like a fiddle and had been a client of Nancy’s.
Perhaps it was Nancy who found both Doctors Porter and Roberts. Nancy was cruel to Kathy Russell but used her charms on Allison Mack. She gave her own daughters to a predator and turned them against their father.
I believe either Nancy knew or deliberately kept herself in the dark about certain aspects of the cult. She wanted the money.
Good Doctor – How did she give her daughters to a predator?
I would argue that your cut and dry argument is way too simplistic.
If you look far back, it can become interesting to see that Nancy Salzman’s parents might have “trained her” to become who she has been in Nxivm. While by nature one’s immediate family is hugely and personally influential to one’s development, I’m seeing the potential contents of their influences, not only simply the pervasiveness of parents’ overall and generalized positions.
In other words, there is a Salzman table of contents. There are chapters. There are also Bronfman stories galore, documents going back generations, available to gather from multiple sources, to study, peruse, contemplate. We live in a mad, mad, mad world of information, true, false and every shade in between. There is less Salzman documentation but what there is, is fascinating, especially if you happen to like or love Guadalajara, atmospherically. There were so many incredibly beautiful Mexican people there, everywhere so many stunning faces. But that’s my memory from decades ago, when Guadalajara was like walking into a dream painting. Now it could be strange to go back again. How much dignity and peace is left for the goodheated Mexican people?
The current President of Mexico, plus five other Mexican presidents, all attended and graduated from a certain Mexican University with several locations, campuses. One of these indepedently funded and administrated Universities is in Guadalajara. One other graduate is Dr. Salzman, the father of Nancy’s Nxivm by-products, Lauren and Michelle. He attended the Guadalajara campus, and Mexico’s current “hugs not bullets” President studied at the Mexico City branch.
There are almost too many rather (seemingly) unexplored Salzman rabbit holes. No wonder Nancy made sure she got to first place in the shill line. Oh! to have been within hearing distance of such linguitic monkeyassing around as could’ve been enjoyed, if eavesdropping on Nancy’s plea! Comedy Central.
Too bad Mexico is bloodier than a summer tomato these days. Where shall the Salzmans flee, ultimately? Where to let their thighs expand and guzzle margaritas for a year or two? Après the ball and chain, of course. That is no longer a safe joint, Mexico, for siestas or fiestas. That is, unless you can afford a ton of privacy. Bali ha’i, a Pacific island. How about Yap? There is a lot of shffling ripe for Salzman’s to reorganize, out there. So much traffic. So many people to exploit. Accountants are on speed-dial on Yap. Nancy of Yap sounds good, resumé-wise.
There were reports back months ago that Nancy Salzman was ill, possibly with a resurgence of cancer. Has there been any current news about her at all, beyond a sentencing date? Nancy looks monstously ill in many photos, but nothing seems to have been seen of her monstrosity lately.
What causes this thick, thick fog? This news blackout? How far back does the thickness go? The big fat fog about Salzman and Salzman and Salzman…is outstanding. See the gigantic blanket. When did the blanket appear, exactly? It does help to know. Was it just after her plea, or even sooner than that? How long now has this big Blank stayed in place?
With both Bronfmans and Salzmans one can see many traces of multi-generational influences. Nepotism is not unusual. At any rate, Nancy has gone far, fabricating her monstrousness into a profitable career and has kept her daughters under her armpit, like a truly conscienceless indoctrinator. It seems she has an instruction manual of how to live a foul, vile existence and how to be just like mummy, how to grow up to be falsifying do-gooders.
With Nancy Salzman, with some who preceded her in her nuclear family and with both daughters who followed in her “specialized,” grotesque footprints, there are undisclosed motivations and goals, available to study and to interpret. Only they themselves might imagine that they’re either clever or unique. This is typical of sociopathic or of narcissistic delusionary self-imaginings, not that those are dianosees of these Raniere addicts or poleclimbers. The ” I’m smarter than everybody else” delusion.
However, it has not been that difficult for Salzman or Raniere to fool those who were gullible, mostly via posing as beneficent ones, helpers, purveyors of human growth potential. As these (familial, “professional” and social) hidden motives shift, change, transfer, the loss of a sense of right and wrong stays intact and also, becomes subtly more engrained.
Individually, the ways and means change their specific directions, yet there’s a steady, uninterrupted undercurrent. This is what I often think of as the milieu of pseudo-intellectual and elitist gangsterism. The Bronfmans and the Salzman faction are similar, but the Bronfmans are more deeply entrenched in elitism, more resourceful and far more prominent, monied. There is only a little bit of intellectualized frosting on that grotty and infested multigenerational Bronfman “shitcake.” Clare’s father’s and grandfather’s industries, politcal connections and endowments, financial shenanigans have left a long, long trail, open to research and interpretation. That’s putting it mildly. Clare seems to be the prodigal, demented daughter who tried to spend all of their moneys on a new messiah. How ironic.
It looks obvious that Raniere (and Nancy Salzman) selected their suckers to fulfill specific and various uses, for themselves. Each seemed to make room for the other’s ideology and for each of their desires to be met.
Allison was brought in for her cutesy famousness and turned out to be an even better, somewhat manly gal to entangle, because she was dying to be popular and to experience egotisical status. Plus she could afford to pay for her own imprisonment. She didn’t seem to mind Raniere’s sexual philosophy, at least socially. Apparently she, like many of these Raniere fans, had plenty of jealousy and meanness wating to be exploited. Any fool could’ve mangled her sex life, with the right carrot to entice her.
It seems to me that Nancy Salzman consciously and conspicously play-acted her lascivious devotion to Keith Raniere for many, many years for her own reasons. Not that Nancy didn’t appreciate him. I just think that she saw through him and used him, probably more than he was capable of comprehending, due to his own dissociativeness. He “knew” he was the star of his soap opera, and certainly, Nancy would know how to exploit that.
Whereas so many of Keith’s harem look glaze-eyed and poleaxed, at least subliminally possessed, Nancy does not. She looks like a calculating carnivore, dressed up like a short-haired matron. She sits in photos, etc. grinning at his side so often, clarifying her Prefect stature for all to see. But her over-acting is terrible and to me, transparent. She looks to me like an embodiment of premeditated and poorly concealed self-interest, which probably includes her family. I don’ t see Nancy melted in a worshipful puddle but instead sniffing Raniere’s hide like an “expectant” raptor. She planned lots of options for her and hers long in advance, if my intuiton is correct about “who” she really thinks she is.
It is hard to guess how much freedom of mind or emotions Nancy Salzman’s daughters ever had. This doesn’t override the hideous decisions Lauren made to carry out horrible actions. She was an adult eventually and chose her mother’s route. Her adoration of Raniere and her long, long fantasizing about him is simply pathetic. Her jealousy of other women is obvious. The other sister appears to remain in her mother’s clutches and is “married to the mob.”
But Raniere knew that he was going to and that he liked to mess with sexuality and to weaponize it, to manipulate the incumbent emotional responses involved by playing off multiple sexual partners against each other, most of whom wanted to be his number one. He didn’t give a damn about any of them. He guilted them with new age/ ancient wisdom bullshit. He told them it was unenlightened and hurtful to poor HIM if they scrapped jealously or possessively over him. Then he engendered their scraps.
Listen I’m an ordinary woman, and fucktard Raniere could not have batted one eye at me. He is a complete mess. He had to pick his chattel. Probably Raniere had to eliminate women, for fake reasons, from his rosters too, though. Lots of us would have seen him as repulsive.
It is different for the young ones Raniere has harmed. He took advantage of their innocence, completely and for as long, as much as he could get. Young emotions are easier to manipulate, usually. The OJ Simpson of volleyball played in a tournament which was sponsored by one of his very own groupies, who organized Raniere’s new hunting arena. Probably naively.
Yet even to this day, some of these women are still competing with one another. Some will not help or engage with certain others. Some seem to hate one another.
The Nxivm men remain out of sight and mostly unstoried, behind all of their Ironman curtains. Yet how many of these ditherheads are mad at Raniere? Who looks at him now as a creep? Who still wants to be his queen gargoyle from afar, as he slides around his cell in his own piss?
In many aspects, Dr. Salzman, one of two of Nancy’s ex-husbands, is a pea in the same pod as his ex, just as his next wife after her appears to be playing slightly different aspects of the same sort of games. Seems, and there’s plenty more.
Their daughters, Lauren and Michelle, were born into a more advanced degree of definitive patterns than Nancy Salzman ingested as she grew up with socio-political-“religious” activists. Her parents might have shown her how to bolster and to falsify her educational background. Who knows how much Nancy’s marriage to Salzman might have been an agreed upon familially sponsored or encouraged marriage? Didn’t she have one clunker marriage that was over fast, first? Obviously, Nancy encouraged her daughters to live in Raniere’s cult, and Nancy was partnered with him while she led them into it.
What could she have been thinking, eh? Hitching her daughters’ wagons to a falling manwhore, gloating like Madam Kardashian in a funhouse mirror.
It is an old game amongst people who think of themselves as intellectually and/or providentially elite and superior to most everyone else. Just con people defined as lower “beings” and reap the benefits of being lord and master. Entitlement to specialness is a fairly well-concealed fundament of intellectual gangsterism. This “entitlement gangsterism” is international, certainly not limited to New York/New Jersey. It’s in London, it’s in France. It’s in Clare Bronfman’s underpants.
In my observation, con met con, between Salzman and Raniere. I think that she saw through plenty of his pathology and just decided to milk it for all that she could. It looks as though Nancy Salzman and a couple of others with vested interests, found a rabid, sexually freaked and freakish Adolf Hitler of their very own to mentor, to pretend to “idolize” with motives of their own. Nancy Salzman probably should have left sooner, but greed is a strange bedfellow.