By Joe O’Hara
Frank recently wrote a very interesting piece about Nancy Salzman – and his impressions of who and what she is.
He was responding to several questions that were put forth by a reader named Dr. S. – who said (s)he was a psychologist who was struggling to understand Nancy’s role in NXIVM and how Frank got involved with the organization.
As I read Frank’s post, it caused me to think about my own impressions of Nancy – and how it was that I came to get involved with her and the NXIVM cult.
I first heard about NXIVM sometime in mid-2003 from a guy that I used to work out with (He was taking NXIVM courses at the time). His pitch was very much a “soft sell” – and not one that I responded to.
Then, sometime in late September of that year, I received a phone call from a woman that I had met a couple of times at social events in Saratoga Springs (Since she’s no longer involved with NXIVM, I’ll simply refer to her as Ms. Coach).
Ms. Coach indicated that the company she worked for was having some issues that she thought I might be able to help with – and asked if I would meet with her and the President of the company for a cup of coffee. I agreed to do so – and the very next day, I met with Ms. Coach and a woman who turned out to be Nancy Salzman.
My first impression of Nancy was that she was passionate but not well organized (She came to the meeting without any notes or copies of relevant materials – and just winged her way through it).
She repeated some things several times but also said she could not answer some very basic questions that I asked about her business (I later figured out that her boss, Keith Raniere, had only authorized her to give me a limited amount of information).
I also thought that she was one of those people who liked to do more talking than listening – and that she was basically trying to sell me something.
I eventually went to work for NXIVM as a part-time consultant (I’ve recounted that whole process before – and won’t repeat it here).
For the 15 months that I served as a consultant, I continued to learn more about Nancy – and how she operated.
One of the early signals that Nancy sent out was that she was available for a sexual relationship. She did this quite openly even though she knew I was living with someone at the time (She also voiced her unrequested opinion that the woman that I was with was “really not a good match” for me – or words to that effect). I never followed up on Nancy’s offer.
I also observed how demeaning Nancy could be when she was dealing with people that she considered to be her inferiors. The first time I saw that was when I met with her at her house in Clifton Park on a hot summer day in 2004.
While we sat at a table in her backyard patio and drank iced tea, Kathy Russell was working quite hard on Nancy’s flower beds and sweating quite profusely (Nancy explained that Kathy had been assigned this task as a “consequence” for some unnamed misdeed involving her job at NXIVM).
When Kathy came over to say “Hello” to me, Nancy dismissed her with a curt “Not now, Kathy. We’re busy here”.
She also never offered Kathy any iced tea.
But the real eye-opener to me was attending Nancy’s birthday party in 2004.
That event took place at a mansion on North Broadway in Saratoga Springs that had been rented for the evening.
Prior to the party, I was given a list of presents that Nancy was hoping to receive at the event (Kind of like a wedding registry list – but with only high-end items on it). I went with a bottle of fairly expensive wine.
I was really not looking forward to being at Nancy’s party – which meant that I arrived more than an hour after the announced start time.
Upon arriving at the event, I noticed that a giant tent had been erected next to the rented mansion. No big deal – and pretty common for summer parties in Saratoga Springs.
But upon entering the tent, I was stunned to see that there was a large stage set up – and that on that stage was Joan Osborne and The Funk Brothers (I was a big fan of both – and recognized them immediately).
Right after I arrived, they played “What Becomes Of The Broken-Hearted?”). I was about 3-feet from the stage – and didn’t move until they finished their entire set about 30 minutes later. They played one more 45-minute set before the party was over.
When I was meeting with Kathy Russell a few days later at NXIVM’s headquarters, I brought up the topic of the party – and expressed amazement about the entertainment. Kathy responded by telling me that Nancy really liked Joan Osborne’s music – and that the Bronfman sisters (Clare and Sara) had spent more than $250,000 on the party.
Seriously, I asked. More than $250,000?
Kathy confirmed the amount – and said that Nancy was a “little disappointed” with her gifts because she had not received some of the top items on her list.
A live, private concert by Joan Osborne and The Funk Brothers – and you’re disappointed?
That’s the Nancy Salzman I know…
I think there are lots of people who were involved with NXIVM who qualify as both “victims” and “perpetrators”. My problem is with the ones who want to forget about what they did when they were active participants in the cult – and just cast themselves as victims.
In my own case, I helped NXIVM gain some of the political power and legal talent that they would subsequently use to crush several people, including me. I truly wish that I hadn’t done that but it is, unfortunately, true.
At the time that I introduced him to Richard Mays, Doug Rutnik, Peter Lynch, and a host of other power brokers and high-level attorneys, I did not realize that Raniere is pure evil – and how many illegal activities he and his inner circle were involved in.
Damn, how I wish I had figured that out sooner…
This is a great post, reveals Nancy in all her ingrate grifting glory – thanks for sharing
I gotta add thus.
Why is it, and I have been in a cult myself, been associated in some fashion with 2 other cults, done more research than the average Joe, why does it always boil down to a bacchanalian sex fest?
It always does.
So outside of pimping her daughters to Keith, and sleeping with him herself ( eeew) Nancy is a slut.
People like this make my skin crawl.
I hope the neighborhood in Clifton Park sleeps better these days with the NXIVM scum gone.
Thank God few of them procreated.
Look, Joan Osborne is well known as a liberal. That Pretard wanted her to play should surprise nobody.
Another Democrat connection. Ben’s story is sounding better all the time.
How do you read any theory about rooting for a “sure winner” into niceguy’s comment?
Why are you calling FR commenters names like “goofballs” with a “concept of realty matching the cult”?
Seems as though your goal is to dissuade people from commenting on or even reading FR. Or is it just Joe’s post, here, or Joe himself you’re discrediting and distracting from?
Per the newish comment policy, comments such as this one which are either rude or off-topic should not be posted. Why hasn’t that happened in this case, please? This comment is rude to all readers, misconstrues another commenter’s meaning, is completely OT and is adverse, subversive to Frank and FR.
That would be your opinion. I call it free speech.
Ban Scott Johnson, he adds no value and continues to contribute nothing of value to this blog.
Do people make mistake? Yes, we all have. Joe is at least doing something positive to heal his mistakes. More than Scott will ever know or be willing to do himself.
Scott just creates a shit show and putting him in his corner did not work.
[…] Johnson recently criticized Joe O’Hara on this forum, following Joe’s posting of a story on Nancy […]
The prosecution has a 97-98% chance of convictions against all the defendants, particularly for the financial crimes. So that blows your theory of them rooting for a sure winner. I think most of the commenters here are just goofballs who concept of reality matches those that were and still are in the cult.
Let’s guess which liar likens FR readers to those as mentally ill as NX cult members?
If you’re reading this, you’re a good for nothing “goofball,” your concept of reality is such that you might even be the “new Vanguard,” your opinion doesn’t count, you’re wasting your time and nothing Dennis Burke said on here matters because the prosecution only has a 2 – 3% chance of of losing regardless of whether the defendants are guilty or not.
If “Reality” is Burke, who gets my vote, or anyone representing any defendants in this case, what are they paying you obscene amounts of $$$$$ for if they’re going to lose anyway?
Or are you getting paid as the story spinner, opinion swayer, scapegoat finder for someone or something other than your doomed defendants?
Only a virtue signaler, religious hypocrite or politician would use such delicate terms as “goofball” to insult, accuse and deceive so viciously.
No, just stating facts. Look at history and tell me how many times the feds lose cases when there are so many financial crimes involved and so much fed money being spent to investigate. As for goofballs the statement stands, and I believe many posters post under different names. Just reading the comment section buttresses my point. Sorry the comment seemed to hit home with you, another apparent virtue signaling religious hypocrite..
The tail at the end of your buttress is the only point you have, not unlike mythical depictions of the “Prince of Darkness,” himself. (Not to be confused with Dennis Burke.)
Fuck your demented “Reality,” Schlock. Frank needs to block URL’s to keep you from slandering under fake names, now?
Do you have legal representation? Seriously.
Yes, I do. Seriously.
Incidentally your reading comprehension is off as usual. I wrote commentors, not readers. Get off your virtue signaling soapbox
Nancy Salzman had better cut a deal and become part of the government’s knife which is surgically going to cut out the public cancer that has manifested itself in the form of Keith and Clare Bear.
If she decides to go to trial, Nancy will be less sympathetic to the jury than everybody but Keith.
I’m not sure how the jury will react when learning that Nancy trained her youngest daughter to worship and fuck Keith during the same time period that she was also fucking that fat psycho bastard.
It’ll demonstrate that her “maternal instinct” isn’t there. A woman’s maternal instinct goes hand in hand with their level of humanity. In fact, even most animals have maternal instinct to protect their young. Therefore the jury may see Nancy as being less ‘human’ than some animals. Or they may possibly see Nancy as being below ‘mammals’ but still above ‘insects’ and ‘rodents’.
But then again, I guess it’s a toss up for who’s the 2nd least sympathetic figure in NXIVM.
Clare Bear has a strong case for that honor too.
Clare comes from a billionaire family yet she still CHOSE to become part of this sick drama controlled by a smelly, fat puppet master.
This won’t make any logical sense to jury members and they’ll probably conclude that Clare’s a sick & twisted piece of shit, though possibly still more ‘human’ than Nancy.
But then again, Clare has no kids and therefore it’s impossible to know for sure if she’d do what Nancy did to her youngest child.
Judging by her endless lust to ruin people via lawsuits, it’s clear she’s got ice in her veins and is close to being an animal.
I think the key lesson here is that a person without true friendship or love in their life will devolve into an animal.
True love and friendship is ‘unconditional’. Therefore if your friends are chosen based upon the ‘condition’ that they adhere to a cult’s philosophy, they are not true friends.
Nancy and Clare are clearly missing both true friendship and true love in their lives.
They have no ‘true’ friends, only minions and sycophants posing as friends.
According to her motions to the court Clare’s going crazy on home detention because without her ability to associate with NXIVM minions, she apparently has nobody else to fulfill her life in any meaningful way. How sad and pathetic.
If I were a jury member hearing this case I’d probably reach the conclusion that not only are Nancy and Clare guilty of all charges, but that even though they are technically human beings and not animals, they are very close to being a hybrid of both creatures.
I can’t wait for the new indictments to come out.
I just don’t see anybody from NXIVM invoking any sympathy from the jury.
*Footnote: Rodents are obviously mammals too. I worded that sentence wrong but I think my point is still well made. lol
Wow love all the drama in comments section. I think all of you are routing for the same team (the prosecution) and should save your energy for something else instead of insulting one another.
I agree that in-fighting is a waste of energy, niceguy, but not that everyone on here is rooting for the same team.
Some are trolls for the defense, some are trolling in defense of a particular defendant or potential defendant(s), some are victims seeking truth, some are media, some are opportunists looking to advance a personal or political agenda, some are writers or historians, some are obsessed celebrity fans, some are attention-seekers, some are just curious…there as many different possibilities as there are readers and commenters. If Frank’s site traffic stats are accurate, FR readers comprise a broad and varied segment of the world population.
I get riled by the likes of Scott Johnson and Dennis Burke, obviously, anyone spewing insults and misinformation, falsehoods, for their own sick gratification or whatever justification they may have — LIBEL AND SLANDER ARE ILLEGAL for good reason in this Country.
Apart from the personal suffering inflicted on slander victims — who’s going to invest in Jeff Peterson’s next venture if he’s the “new Vanguard,” Keith Raniere, or a “coke and meth addict who swindles the senile?” — who’s going to hire Joe O’hara if he lies about his former employers (NXIVM) as Schlock suggests every time Joe posts? — LIES DISTORT AND BURY THE TRUTH, LIES ARE AN IMPENDIMENT TO JUSTICE, LIES DESTROY LIVES, FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY.
In some cases, such as Frank’s own indictment, lies, perjury, could cause him to be unjustly imprisoned.
Lies and liers should not be tolerated on FR, anywhere people are seeking truth.
I’m not defending Burke or Scott, or anyone. But I do find it odd, and rather hypocritical, that Heidi is complaining about the lies posted here, and that people have been slandered, when she has participated in this same behaviour.
How many articles and comments posted here have slandered Kruek (and a few other people) without offering a shred of proof? And I remember that Heidi was a believer of these slanderous comments, which were made by someone who posed as “sex slave Jane” without offering any convincing evidence that she was who she claimed to be.
“How many articles and comments posted here have slandered Kruek (and a few other people) without offering a shred of proof?”
Kreuk’s name on the Times Union expose and Joe O’Hara’s lawsuit is enough proof for the press to move in and call her out. Kreuk is silent and is being allowed to be by her publicists because she is not squeaky clean. She is not being slandered, she is being called out. She is no victim, nor was Ally Wack before the branding started.
I did not realize the broad cast of characters that Frank allows on his site. I will refrain from making wisecracks or using sarcasm to make a point in the future. My comment was well intended I was under the impression that everyone was on the same team. Also I had been posting wisecracks on Art site as well.
After finding out some additional information about what Frank went through, as well as you, I am ashamed I ever made any flippant comments. Your real people and deserve better.
Heidi you should ignore the negative posters. Leave them where they reside in oblivion.
Trying to ignore, but they go after people and a cause I do care about. I don’t mind wisecracks, it’s lies and truly intentional infliction on the already distressed that concerns me. The lies bury the truth about my sister. The infliction of distress discourages and silences witnesses from coming forward with pieces I need to find that truth. That’s where I’m at. Hope you’re in a good place.
At one Nancy Salzman birthday bash, Kristin Kreuk performed a NXIVM cult inspired “play”. Fucking hilarious and pretentious. NXIVM cult members would quote Ghandi”s “be the change…” quote, pretending to be moral & ethical. Virtue signalling dick heads.
Why do people who comment like this have their comments posted first, while others who have posted well before them (according to time) still have theirs yet to be posted? I’ve noticed this quite a bit. Does this site claim to be fair or not?
We try to go through the comments in sequential order but occasionally get behind and switch to doing the newest comments first – especially if there’s a lot of them. But you’re point is well taken – and we will, henceforth, try to review all the comments in the order they come in.
EDITOR. Maybe you need to work out a new system of posting comments. Would be nice for you to post comments systematically by date. Otherwise, what is the point of claiming to be an objective forum if you are being selective based on content.
Do you remember the name of that play?
And if a NXIVM creation, who wrote it?
For the ‘why’ of it all. Hope in or for what ?
“Sarah Edmondson, a Canadian actress who had been an ESP participant since 2005, said that she left the group after Mack inducted her into DOS the preceding March at her Albany house. Edmondson alleged that participants were blindfolded naked, held down by Mack and three other women, and branded by NXIVM-affiliated doctor Danielle Roberts, using a cauterizing pen.”
This is from “Wikipedia.” It misstates Sarah Edmondson’s account, saying that Allison Mack (not Lauren Salzman) inducted her into DOS, held her down, etc.
Don’t know if you and Toni are still in “Wiki wars” trying to keep NX honest but thought you should know.
Unless…SHADOW did it for another cheap Mack Smack!
You have more than made up for it Joe, and, you continue to help expose them with all of your hard work on, and off the blog. Thanks again for saving me buddy.
Hi Toni – When and where can we get more of you? You know you’ll be getting your own statue at the end of this, right?
I’m sorry but anyone who thinks Nancy was merely Keith’s “stooge” after reading these personal accounts is very naive and/or has some sexism issues that are being used to manipulate opinions all over the place in this case.
Nancy’s enthusiasm to share her “passion” — not to mention her own and other’s daughters — for Keith’s “tech” and otherwise — muff dives right in to the world’s oldest profession no matter who’s getting paid or paid off or not. “Slaves” rarely are.
The Keith I recall was not into “sharing” in the slightest. He was jealous of Gina’s tattoos (!) that pledged any loyalty to any other faith but in HIM.
While I’m sure Keith appreciated Nancy’s skill at recruiting and retaining harem members for himself, I rather think it required someone other than Keith to convince him to share any of his “supply” unless, perhaps, he was being satiated with constant fresh supply of an age (or some other form of power boost) more suited to his taste. And/Or with the fact that his brand, monogram, could expand his power reach beyond mortal limits.
Nancy is just as if not more guilty than Keith. IMO. And Nancy has far less reason to cop an insanity plea. IMO.
This description of how Nancy treated Kathy Russell as her personal slave and blamed her conduct toward Kathy on a Keith-ordered “breech” to Joe…
And Frank’s account of Nancy trying to control Frank with the same excuse — that Frank just doesn’t understand “Keith’s” magnificence…
NANCY was ordering Kathy around and NANCY’s garden benefitted from Kathy’s toils — as did NANCY’s personal net worth from Kathy’s accounting labor.
NANCY’s (not Keith’s) ass was on the line on the LA real estate properties as they were purchased and held in NANCY’s name.
Keith and Nancy used each other differently but equally even if you might think Nancy’s “business” value less than because she didn’t seem to have a head for it:
3 + 2 = 5 as surely as 5 = 5
They deserve equal sentences.
Am I reading something into Heidi’s (and others”) comment that Keith probably didn’t share his harem with promiscuous Nancy—but she may have had her own?
“muff dives right in to the world’s oldest profession”
Love it when a woman talks kinky…
Maybe kinky to you. Taken in the context of NXIVM it’s disgusting.
Nancy obviously appreciates things more than experiences.
Haha, I remember that party! It had rained all day and the ground was soaked. Women wearing expensive high heeled shoes ruined sinking in mud.
There was Motown music all night Nancy’s fave.
She was sexually promiscuous from way back. A mother that leaves her two young daughters for a year to study NLP is a red flag. She was studying more than NLP?
She didn’t care if the men were married or in a monogamous relationship. Her daughter Lauren didn’t fall far from that tree.
Nancy is a mercenary cruel person with no ethics or morals. She and Keith were a Prefect match.
Was Nancy bi-promiscuous?
A Joan Osborne concert for free!
Joe, you left out the part about being sorry for ripping off the school system in El Paso, TX.
Scott: Two responses:
(1) Have you ever considered the possibility of there being a link between El Paso and NXIVM?
(2) Why do you think that I have to explain every aspect of my life to you just because I occasionally post a story about NXIVM? If you don’t like what I write, don’t read it.
(1) Then spill the beans about the El Paso and NXIVM connection, I’m sure I would be more interested in that than some party where Nancy threw a hissy fit; and
(2) I didn’t ask you to explain every aspect of your life, just the part where you were caught ripping off a school system, became a convicted felon, and spent a few years in prison. Go ahead and throw rocks, but don’t pretend that you’re a good guy. A little honest confession is good for the soul, as they say.
The more that’s known about NX and their key figures only leaves me continually asking why anyone was involved with them in the first place? Seriously, the bookkeeper is weeding the Company President’s flower bed as penance for something? It’s all so bizarre and crazy, I wish someone could explain the ‘why’ of it all. The real why.
Did you know about the gardening story before today? Neither did most people involved in NXIVM. If Joe had shared this story several years ago, it may have saved a lot of people from harm. But like most people, he didn’t.
Once again – “if only people spoke up sooner” – “if only this or that, they could have stopped NXIVM.” Wrong! Their comments would have fallen on deaf ears. The adulation of KAR, et al, was far too strong, then.
You seem like a decent guy. What is your goal? To shut up anyone who was ever involved in NX? Then you would not have Frank’s forum to air your comments.
Scott, a lot of times I really enjoy your good comments but you’re quick to throw stones – worst of all, at those who have extremely valuable information and insights. They are speaking out now – partly, because the monster is behind bars, at least for now.
I know you went through hell with Amway, but it cannot have compared to this.
If Joe O’Hara, a part time paid consultant for NXIVM for a short time, knew about this kind of thing, those morons on the striped path who were in direct contact with these freaks would have known the culty behaviour too.
These are the kind of comments that confirm just how uninformed you are when it comes to the history of NXIVM. Beginning in early 2005, Toni Natalie and I started turning over every bit of information we had to a variety of governmental agencies and officials (This information was compiled into several 5″ 3-ring binders). This included federal agencies and officials, New York State agencies and officials, and agencies and officials in Albany County and Saratoga County.
In addition to turning over materials, we also participated in numerous meetings to explain everything we knew about what was going on – and to answer questions about NXIVM’s operations. Once again, this included federal officials, New York State officials, and officials from Albany County and Saratoga County.
Along the way, Toni and I identified a few people who were willing to put their careers – and, in some cases, their lives – at risk to take on NVIVM. This included Dennis Yusko and Jim Odato from The Times Union, Chet Hardin from Metroland, and John Tighe from Saratoga In Decline. Later, Frank Parlato also stepped up to the front-line of the battle.
Those of us who have been engaged in this battle from the beginning are always pleased to see more people joining in to help take down Raniere’s criminal enterprise. But we really don’t have time to respond to uninformed people who question our motives or our tactics — or who make baseless allegations about what we did or didn’t do in terms of a specific issue at a different point in time.
You claim to be an expert on Amway – and to have been involved in a long-term battle to take that operation down. When it comes to Amway, I don’t question your history, your motivation, your strategy, or your tactics – and I certainly don’t make baseless allegations about what you did or didn’t do in your battle against Amway because I don’t know enough about that situation to raise any such questions. Nor do I raise questions about any other aspect of your life that is unrelated to Amway because I don’t see why such questions would be relevant.
But that’s just me…
Scott – Not to go all Shadow with questions, but WTF, Scott?
1) Would you rather the gardening story not be shared, now?
2) How would knowing about Nancy not offering water to Kathy or knowing about Nancy not inviting her into the conversation have saved people from harm?
3) In what forum should Joe go back in time and share this critical information in order to gain your approval of his full disclosure?
4) When others remember information about their direct experiences with NXIVM, do you suggest they share it, or cower while keeping it to themselves so as not to be bizarrely attacked by you?
5) Have you considered that when people share their information on FR and you attack them for not sharing information, that you are going after the wrong people?
Thank you, NJ. Well said. We need to put ourselves in their (ex-NXs) shoes. It’s easy to say in retrospect what should have been done at what point in time, This was a horrible organization, and short of the EDNY miraculously becoming involved, I’m not sure what possibly could have been done to stop them sooner. The Times Union spoke out, so did John Tighe, and so did Forbes. Various people reached out to law enforcement in the Albany area including NDNY – and where did it get them? Nowhere.
And there was a lot of secrecy. I met Raniere in the 90’s, around the time he was raping Rhainnon, and did not detect anything untoward. I thought they were just a bunch of MLM freaks. Par for the course.
I’ll say again (Scott): MLMs today are easily exposed and debunked, thanks to the internet. They are not the worst threat to society. Maybe your pocketbook, if you are blind and dumb. Vicious, exploitive, selfish, egomaniacal cult leaders who will stop at nothing to destroy are much worse. On this blog, we are trying to defeat one.
I do believe people have lost their savings, self esteem, sanity, and even their lives to this cult, in the worship of Keith Raniere. Such an ethical man. I hope he is happy now.
Had he been wired correctly, he might have actually done something good. Too late.
Rhiannon. So sorry for the misspelling.
Let that be a lesson to us all – don’t be fashionably late to a Nancy birthday bash.
So we have Nancy rubbing Frank’s hand, and we have Nancy open to sex with Joe. Do we a third person to turn this coincidence into a pattern?
Visit Raniere in jail, I’m sure he has some good Nancy stories. Plus, he would enjoy someone other than his lawyers visiting him.
I think anyone who wants to visit Keith and speak with him would first need to be placed on Keith’s visitor list. I’d bet most journalists would have already made such requests by now considering the tabloid appeal in this case.
I nominate you for the Raniere prison visit, Schlock. Only you should go “under cover” — like you claim you did with Amway for what 3 – 4 years? — as a PRISONER if you ever hope to put any credibility behind your reckless lies. I bet that can be easily arranged given YOUR wrap sheet.
Joe doesn’t have to take this abuse, he’s letting you off-leash, I suspect, to mercifully protect newbies from your pointy hooks. And so FR readers can be reminded of who you and not let their guard down. Thanks, Joe!
Nutjob, could Kristen Gillibrand’s father, Doug Rutnik, be number three? Maybe Nancy acted sexually interested in Rutnik, and maybe he flirted with her back. When Rutnik didn’t succeed in getting indictments against Toni Natalie and Rick Ross, perhaps she then accused him of sexual harassment in order to extort him out of his fee.
villagedianne, funny you typed that. I’ve been thinking that all along. The new Joe and Frank info has solidified it. I’d say the odds are great that you are correct.
I disagree with the post about Nancy being a psychopath. But Keith probably turned her into a sociopath. And only “chose” her because he knew she could be flipped. The ones who couldn’t be flipped were labled “levelers”, “shifters”, etc and chased away. Maybe when the dust settles and Nancy sings to save herself and Lauren, Nancy can explain how she went from being scared of the obvious psychopath, wanting nothing to do with him, and having her guard up – to having him be her Guru and her losing every bit of her morals and self worth.
Lesbianism with Kristin Crook.
Thanks for this post. It was a real eye opener – especially Nancy’s “peon” treatment of Kathy Russell. It speaks volumes.
Her materialism is right in line with someone consumed by greed.
I would add she also seems consumed by the power to control. I think the combination was her ultimate aphrodisiac. It does sound like two psychopaths found one another and formed an unholy alliance. She got what she wanted from KAR and he got what he wanted from Nancy. The others were just pieces on the chess board to be moved around to do their bidding. The windfall was when the Bronfrom money came their way as another lost soul looking for acceptance.
A sad story,:someone who had so much, yet it was not enough; and in the end, they reached too far, hurt others badly and lost it all.
Greed and entitlement never works, no matter how it covered up in “good intentions” and a save the world mission statement.
Yes, and treating another human being like trash (even if, let’s say, that person were a hired domestic or gardener) is inexcusable. Watching a person sweat bullets and not offering them a drink is horrendous. There are lots of wealthy and famous people out there who would NEVER treat anyone like that. Who does Nancy think she is?
I totally agree with you OCD. If I ever saw anyone (famous, wealthy or not) treat others as such, it’s inexcusable to say the least. It’s equally out of the ordinary and embarrassing to witness this in person. And, for such a grandiose claim of teaching ethics for the betterment of humanity and all that other crap, NXIVM seems like a f*cking dumpster fire at the very best. Most, if not all respectable companies today require all of their employee to participate in ethics training as a condition of continuing employment. Granted, as you can see in the news, most companies tend to do quite well in this, others, still a work in progress. Yet, for NXIVM to claim their work benefits others, I fail to see this based on what has been surfacing in the news.
TK, I don’t know who you are, but your comments are a great addition to this site. It’s a pleasure to read them – they are full of real insight. So many good posters have left because of the bickering. I hope that will change.
Quote of the day: “And, for such a grandiose claim of teaching ethics for the betterment of humanity and all that other crap, NXIVM seems like a f*cking dumpster fire at the very best.”
OCD, I’m pretty much a nobody. I live and work in Milwaukee, WI. Middle-aged. Work full-time for a big brewery in the Legal Dept. and am a local artist. Painting, printmaking, drawing etc. I enjoy minimalism. Your sensibilities and contributions here are quite brilliant among some of the others too. I just happened to stumble upon the news when Keith was arrested in Mexico. I can’t remember the exact news outlet that I originally saw, but it mentioned a link to further details – The Frank Report. So, here I am. When I first started learning more about the scope of the case and the amount of damage done to others, I was hooked, and on a personal level. I always seem to take the side of the underdog. Almost, sometimes, I tend to seek out injustices, and most often I will speak my mind about it when given the chance. Regardless, I enjoy what you have to offer as well. I mean this sincerely. And, the same to a few others here as well with being patient with me when I tend to ask too many questions. Please forgive me for asking, but were you a victim of NXIVM. If you don’t feel comfortable answering this, I totally understand.
TK – I have to respond here as the site won’t let me respond to your last one, mechanically. It’s clear you have the sensibilities and sensitivities of an artist. Welcome! I do have limited experience with this sorry group, but it dates from way back, I do not want to reveal my identity, but KAR hurt two people I cared about deeply. I really do think the people involved in NX thought Raniere was some kind God. (A cold one, at that.)
I am a big fan of the saying, “those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.” I suspect my colleagues here are thoroughly sick of my obsession with cult leader Jim Jones, but you should read about him. So many horrible parallels.
And no joke, around 900 people died!
Thanks OCD! Appreciate the welcome 🙂 I’m so terribly sorry your dear friends were harmed by Keith. It’s understandable why you are here. I would be too considering the gravity of this case. For the victims, this place is a nice respite, albeit bittersweet, where you all (victims) can share your thoughts, fears, concerns, etc. It’s therapy and very important It’s also helpful for people who choose to come forward and share their experiences whether anonymously or otherwise. I agree with your mantra about learning from past mistakes — good words to try to live by. It’s far easier said than done, of course. The nice thing about making art is you can erase or paint over your mistakes. Cheers, and Happy Friday!
Nancy thinks she is who Raniere said she is, a reincarnated Adolf Hitler. Even Adolf treated peons better than Nancy did, but she didn’t start WWII, so that evens things out a bit.
Scott, why don’t you reach out to Keith and invite him on you radio show. Go for it.
But she is responsible for 911, so that’s a strike against her…😉