Women Enslaving Women — for Nxivm

By Shivani

Even before the branding started to be a DOS ritual, there was much interference with personal decisions and freedom.

How to make the intolerable tolerable and even to represent it as wonderful, special and magnetically attractive to join, to support?

If Keith Raniere didn’t have a core group of women and even some men who were following along with his demands, he would have had no “movement” for more people to join.

The inner circle’s contribution of peer pressure, their overall and devout representation of Raniere as being their “everything” certainly helped create the entire atmosphere. (Yet many opine that they were essentially victims.) The group itself provided Raniere with his stage setting.

No one seems to have joined via a gun to the head; it was never do or die.

Maybe Nancy Salzman presented a kind of “do or die” to her daughters, though. She was/is hardcore, in my observation. I think there were quite a few who became hardcore and no longer needed to be fooled about what the real motives were, as opposed this being about self-help or inner/outer “growth.”

Nancy Salzman [l] with daughter Lauren. They followed the smartest and most ethical man in the world, Keith Raniere  (Ca. 2002)
Michelle Salzman with her mother, Nancy(Ca. 2017)

Yet the entire setting was really more or less “do or die.” Raniere’s rules or else. His group is responsible for being a part of it; they were not animatronic objects, controlled by electronics switches or buttons.

These were volunteers who had free will and who allowed their free will to become subverted, squelched, dominated and commanded to cooperate with Raniere’s AND the group’s incentives and requirements. Step by step, each shut down common sense. Or perhaps some had little common sense in the first place. Each kept deciding to support the slaughterhouse as Utopian.

Keith Alan Raniere AKA Vanguard on stage at V-Week talking to his mostly female followers.

So, just how much does one feel sorry for them, either individually or as a group? This kind of evaluation is going to be pretty subjective, according to the thoughts and experiences of the observer, the one or ones doing the evaluating. People seem to have a lot of different responses regarding what combo of compassion, pity, scorn, anger, disgust, willingness to excuse or not to excuse a myriad of individual participants, as well as the group as a whole.


Do you see, for example, Allison Mack strutting around like a martinet who loved all of the ego food that being one of Raniere’s chosen ones provided her? Or do you view her as a poor lost lamb? Or as various combinations of both of these manifestations of her own behavior, her own words and her own decisions to partake in criminality and enslavement, etc.?

These deeply entrenched Nxivm members and later, the DOS individuals, had agreed to semi-starve, to limit their sleep, to view outsiders as targets. The outsiders were either to become culties or, at the other end of the spectrum, enemies.

Raniere set up that “us and them” and “us vs. them” structure to isolate and to control his subjects. This is necessary to exert control. The women agreed to an extremely eccentric version of sexual exclusivity with their Creepboy guru, too.

This photo of Keith Alan Raniere was used as an exhibit at his trial.

He could be the superhero manwhore, whereas the women accepted that they were only to have sex with him unless he said otherwise. They were willing to not only tolerate, but to fully support, Raniere’s set-up and to be recruiters for more specimens as chattel for Raniere’s conjobs and sexual dictatorship. He was the one who was given power to control their social dimension, their way of thinking, their emotional conduct, their definitions of their concepts, ideas. But still, his acolytes had to say “yes, yes, yes” and to believe in him, to believe that all of his insane shit was very, very good, beneficial, enlightening!

Without their willing cooperation, what would Raniere have even had to offer as a drawing card?

I doubt that he could have pulled much weight with his scamming and conditioning techniques WITHOUT the existence of his little communal troupe of devotees recommending him and themselves as being a positive organization for “human growth potential.” He couldn’t accomplish much alone. He had to have whatever he could get from the inner circle, money, a setting of busywork, tasks and a whole path being embraced by ardent supporters.

Yet it is obvious what Raniere and his group really wanted. They wanted more. They wanted more suckers to dominate, to make into sexual treats for their leader, (and for themselves) and they wanted more fresh meat to blackmail and to traffic. This can be seen as the opposite of spirituality, of kindness, of growth. In fact thinking Raniere was an example of good behavior, that Raniere held any divine intentions, is group insanity.

Peer pressure would have been hugely influential, appearing to make the group look successful, reasonable, desirable, magnetic. But I am not sure to whom it would have appealed. There had to be identifiable ” types” who were people who would not bother to think for themselves much, if at all. They had to want to join. They had to be willing to believe Raniere’s sexual persona was worth supporting.

Some of us would not have ever been receptive, in the first place, to ANY of Raniere’s personal interference and demands.

Tell me what I should eat or not eat, tell me that I must obey Raniere, tell me to limit my sleep and to do whatever I was told. Tell me that I must think with, solely identify with, a group agenda. Tell me that I must not think things over for myself.

I don’t know if I could even express a refusal cloaked politely, about any involvement within such a system of living. The entire group dynamic, not to mention its leader and the entire atmosphere of hidden motives is repellent. It angers me even to imagine surrendering to such a prison.

It got worse and worse among the group, progressively, too. Yet most stuck to it, devolving into branding others for more enslaved exclusivity, to performing more and more questionable or criminal acts, in the name of their leader and THEIR group, even as they fought among themselves, in effect representing no growth, no peace, nothing to gain, everything to lose. This was an individual choice, to support such a movement. That is how it started for each participant, who arrived at Nxivm’s door as individuals.


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  • I’m currently reading Sarah Edmonson’s book Scarred. It’s an interesting insider’s look at Nxivm and DOS from the woman who was in charge of the Vancouver center and whose public exposure of the DOS branding scandal played a big part in Nxivm’s downfall.

    Her book is revealing but it is also shamelessly self-serving. She, like all the rest of the gang, sees herself as a victim. Despite the fact that she recruited lots of people to the cult, she seems to think that she was somehow innocent of wrongdoing; she’s even chuffed that she garnered praise as Nxivm’s top recruiter. Is she oblivious to the fact that the organization she recruited for was a criminal enterprise? That the people she recruited were the objects of a con? That Nxivm has been legally judged a criminal racket? No, she’s impressed with herself that she was so efficient!

    In my view, anyone who had an executive, leadership, or coaching role in this racket is morally at fault, possibly criminally so, and, as a matter of common decency, should be ashamed of what they did and utter nothing but apologies on the subject. To pretend to be a victim when you actually profited and benefited from Raniere’s scam is unconscionable. This goes for Mack, Edmonson, Kreuk, Vicente… the whole lot of them.

    “I didn’t know” or “I was just doing what I was told” or “It seemed like a good idea at the time” don’t cut it.

    People are responsible for their actions. Their intentions are a sidelight. People who advanced this cult and recruited for it are responsible for having foisted this nastiness on the world. They can’t in good conscience plead ignorance. It was their job to know what kind of thing they were promoting.

    The only innocent victims of Nxivm were the customers. The people who paid for useless courses. Anyone who benefited, anyone who got paid, doesn’t get to play the victim.

    There are far too many people in this world playing the victim, pleading ignorance, making excuses for their behavior. Let’s have some personal responsibility for a goddam change.

    • “She, like all the rest of the gang, sees herself as victim. Despite the fact that she recruited lots of people to the cult, she seems to think that she was somehow innocent of wrongdoing; ” Actaeon

      What pisses me off the most about these NXIVM gangsters is how they all portray themselves as victims.
      What did it take to wake up Lauren Salzman to the fact that she is a sex trafficker?
      Mexican cops pointing machine guns at her head.
      So Lauren Salzman is now a victim crying her eyes out in court.
      Lauren conveniently forgot how she imprisoned a young Mexican woman for almost two years to force her to engage in sex.

      All the top leaders of NXIVM are selfish, self-centered cruel criminals who deserve nothing but contempt and scorn.
      None of them are victims.

    • This is how Amway and other RICO fraud MLM scams like NXIVM work. You think you’re promoting a legitimate business, but you don’t know the whole story until later. I find it hard to blame someone for not knowing information that was deliberately being withheld from them, and she wasn’t the only one. However, I think Edmondson has plenty of money from her acting career and residuals to afford giving back all of the money she made from NXIVM and her book and that would be the appropriate thing for her to do.

  • Good sense Shivani, as usual. Do you think the remaining Nx women understand this too? That it wouldn’t take more than any business start-up, to reconstitute what they had, but without the worst liability, ie KAR? It is easier to understand their behaviour in terms of rank criminality, than brain-washed devotion.

    • Are you, like Barb Bouchey, advocating the resurrection of NXIVM with the so called “good parts” only because Keith is in prison?
      It’s a Ponzi scheme where those at the top live well and there must be endless recruiting of the down line to maintain the up line.

      No one has yet to show us concrete evidence of any material good NXIVM did in the world.
      Not one.
      Yet we have evidence of so much bad and what we don’t know as yet, and may never know, must be even more horrid.

  • Katie Hill, during her resignation speech, will now focus her attention on Donald Trumps impeachment. Apparently, after smoking her bong, she drank the water. I think she’s going to become a full fledge lesbian and hate men for good. Her ugly ass ex husband kind of reminds me of Raniere the way he turned people gay.

    • Hill literally took herself out of the Trump impeachment effort. Sure, she can support it from the outside, but she won’t have nearly as much influence as she would have had in Congress. She definitely drank the bong water.

      I think Hill had her freak on for other women before she met her husband. I don’t think he was ever in charge of, or even an equal party, to their “relationship,” just another unemployed soy-boy.

    • Peaches:

      “I think she’s going to become a full fledge lesbian and hate men for good. Her ugly ass ex husband kind of reminds me of Raniere the way he turned people gay.”

      With Katie Hill’s fondness for pet goats she might even turn to bestiality.

      • There are other domestic animals that could be considered. Why only dwarf goats? On their farm, there is room for more animal husbandry.

  • It’s really about buying into the ideology. If he can sell you the spiel about him being the “smartest, most ethical man in the world” AND any one of the things you grossly overpaid to learn BENEFITS your life in any way, then you will believe whatever he has to say. Walking in, your mindset is already “self-help” or maximum personal growth, so you’re going to get what you paid for, at least in your own mind.

    Ramtha always said, “there are no seatbelts”, everyone was there because they thought there was “value”, excusing the fact that if you make it a second trip, you’re already brainwashed into their ideology. I didn’t go my first time to join a self-help group, I went to see if my family member was in a cult! I stayed because I BELIEVED that I was training myself to utilize more/other parts of my brain. I really didn’t like it, and I loved it at the same time. All of the disciplines are arduous, and you spend most of your time doing them, hating it. Then when you make it to the end, you feel proud of yourself for suffering through it like a champ! I believed that because I abhorred these rituals and disciplines, that’s why I HAD to do them. The cult experience is the “George Costanza” theory in practice. The opposite to what you believe is right! If you knew what was really going on, you’d already be rich, smart, successful…..you’re paying for the answers to the “ancient”, “secret” wisdom, it would be stupid to pay for it and not buy it, right? (Olympic Eyeroll)

    • Raniere never sold “…the spiel about him being the “smartest, most ethical man in the world”,” his small gang of evil women (and some men) did that for him. By the time Raniere met with the new person they were already hooked.

    • Those chickadees remind me of Joe Biden. Here is the truth about Biden and it applies to these silly bimbos and their relationship with Raniere

      “Biden is a legend in his own deluded mind. A lap dog too dumb to conceptualize what the import of being “second fiddle” to the most corrupt, least intelligent, traitorous, POTUS ever, would entail. Doesn’t take “spine” or balls to humble one’s self to Veep for a nobody, with a completely fabricated past, a Clorox mopped history the media gave us, a ZERO. It takes a lack of brain matter. You told us Barack was “… clean, good looking, articulate, intelligent….”

      • —“Biden is “second fiddle” to the most corrupt, least intelligent, traitorous, POTUS ever,—

        You are wrong…Biden is NOT the Vice President for Trump.

  • Shivani:
    If you look at the historical record many if not the majority of people engaged in “pimping” or sex trafficking are female.
    One thinks of Heidi Fleiss, Polly Adler, the Mayflower Madam.

    This links is a partial list of brothel owners and madams or pimps.
    Most are female.
    American brothel owners and madams

    And if you were to examine the facts you would find that the revelation of the sex slave operation within NXIVM created an exodus from the criminal gang and that exodus was led by the males in the group.

    And Shivani I will let you in on a little secret.
    When NXIVM is revived, and it will be revived, it will be led and financed by women, perhaps even the Bronfman sisters.

    Read the most recent story about Nicki Clyne.

    Nicki Clyne Weathers Storm of 9 People Quitting – Remains General Manager of Izzy Rose – Under Fake Name

    The only way to explain this story is that Nicki has big money behind her.
    Bronfman money.

    I had this conversation with Yolanda Cortez aka Nicki Clyne: (Yolanda’s gravitar code was abfnt1)

    Yolanda Cortez
    October 5, 2019 at 4:26 pm
    Sara is one of the most beautiful women in the world inside and outside.

    October 5, 2019 at 5:33 pm
    So Yolanda, aka Nicki, is Sara helping fund NXIVM until the storm passes?

    Will Sara front Nicki’ some dough to help buy the NXIVM tech from under the Salzmans or will Nicki use some Mexican money for that?

    When Allison finally gets out of the clink will Sara help provide Ally with a do nothing job in the new NXIVM?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    Pea Onyu
    October 6, 2019 at 1:54 am
    That’s none of your business Shadow. Stay out of things that don’t concern you

    • Shadowstate, the most prominent male to leave the group was Mark Vicente, but it was his wife who resigned from NXIVM first. The NXIVM 9, who left years before DOS was publicly revealed or even existed, were all women. As I recall, they were deeply disturbed when they found out that Raniere was sleeping with his followers. Emiliano Salinas may have left due to pressure from his family. Salinas explained in a recorded phone call that collateral was a great thing. Please no more generalizations about which gender led the way in leaving NXIVM. But I enjoyed your interaction with Yolanda. More of that please!

  • I wonder if Raniere was surprised he could get so many women to not only fall for his obvious ESP, NXIVM, and DOS bullshit, but then get them to recruit others?
    Because I believe Raniere knew he was a fraud, he should be amazed he could con some many so easily.

  • This is my whole point. Toni Natalie was patient zero. She got out beside she would not make other women slaves. She is the Harriet Tubman of the modern era. I love you Toni. You are my angel. Viva Toni Natalie the Joan D’Arc of America. I worship your beauty and tenderness and know you never told a lie in your entire life. Worship you love forever. I await thee – your Concorde Jet who will fly you anywhere!!!

    • “She is the Harriet Tubman of the modern era. I love you Toni. You are my angel. Viva Toni Natalie the Joan D’Arc of America. I worship your beauty and tenderness and know you never told a lie in your entire life,” Dr. Gastone H. H. Porter

      Dr. Gastone H. H. Porter aka Nicki Clyne
      Laying it on a bit thick, aren’t we?
      You must carry a large shovel to haul around that much crap.

      Didn’t the Vanguard tell you that you were the reincarnation of Harriet Tubman?
      Didn’t the Vanguard tell Allison Mack that she is the reincarnation of Joan of Arc?

      And by the way, Dr. Gastone H. H. Porter, I thought there was only one H. in your name, not two H’s.

      As a long time Chicagoan I know all about Dr. H. H. Holmes, aka Herman Webster Mudgett.
      Dr. H. H. Holmes was also known as the Torture Doctor and the most famous book written about him was titled “The Devil in the White City.”
      At 63rd and Wallace in Chicago’s Englewood neighborhood the bad Dr. H.H. Holmes built his Murder Castle.
      He admitted to killing at least 27 people.
      Ultimately the bad Doctor Holmes was hanged and his body covered by a concrete slab.
      I hope Dr. Gastone H. H. Porter you are a good Doctor and not a bad Doctor.

      Don’t bother trying to find Dr. H.H. Holmes’ Murder Castle.
      It was demolished in 1940 and replaced with a US Post Office that is supposedly haunted by Dr. H.H. Holmes’ many victims.
      And Englewood is not a good neighborhood, ghosts or not.

      By the way H. H. Holmes was not a real Doctor any more than you are, Nicki.
      He was thrown out of Medical School for stealing cadavers. (True!)

      Reader compares Raniere and sociopath killer H. H. Holmes

      • Shadow, “Dr. Gastone” is playing you and you’re falling for it. Ditto as to Pea Onyu, Yolanda Cortez, Monte Bleu, etc. None of them are Nicki Clyne. They are pulling our chains and seeking a reaction from those who think they’re real. Ignore them and they will go away. Don’t waste your time and effort.

        • Orange County Dreams,

          Orange telling Mr. Shadow to “ignore Trolls”…..is like telling a moth to ignore the flames.

          GirlScoutCookies, Nutjob, myself, and even Scott Johnson have all pointed out multiple times that Pea Onyu is not Nickie Clyne….. to no avail….

          • People who identify themselves as “Girl Scout Cookies” or “Nutjob” are reliable sources of knowledge in your world?

            As for Scott Johnson, he is still trying to figure out whether Amway is a scam.
            Scott is the perfect candidate for NXIVM 2.0.

          • Shadowstate,

            I am have come to the conclusion you have been trolling the trolls.

            You may be idiosyncratic and dogmatic; But there is no denying your intellect. I think you see the trolls ruse for what is.

            I guess I will never receive an honest answer from you if I am indeed right. Tally ho!

    • After dismantling parts, Concorde is no longer airworthy, has no fuel and no certification since it was taken out of service in 2003.
      And I am not aware that civilian supersonic aircraft have landing rights anywhere in the world.

      • I was speaking metaphorically about the Concorde jet. I could be any type of aircraft she desires. Only I would take her to any where she wants to go and make the trip smooth easy and First Class since she is First Class and above all women so I would take her high above all the rest.

        • Dr. Gastone Porter, MD, LOL, MS, WTF, DDS, OMG, PhD, TWA, DD, NXIVM.
          You’re growing degrees like mushrooms.
          You had better get to the nearest Duane Reade or Walgreens store and get some anti-fungal ointment.

      • Meaty thumbs, hairy nipples, a small penis that doesn’t work, boxed feet, crooked eyes, Buck teeth…oh yes and mommy issues.

    • What’s your doctorate in? Your posts are ridiculous, and your writing seems lacking in any PhD intelligence. Guessing you’re getting something out of this, even if it’s just your jollies? Your instincts are sound though, you’re just the kind of loser Toni Natalie seems to be attracted to!

    • Dr . Gastone H. Porter is Toni NatalLie pretending to love herself as any good narcissist would.

      She is distracting from the real message of the post.

      Toni NatalLie stayed with Keith Raniere after CBI was shut down after it was ruled an illegal pyramid scheme by 26 State Attorney Generals.

      Raniere, along with Pan Cafritz and Karen Unterreiner, were ordered by the NY State Attorney general’s office to not start another MLM type company.

      Toni and Raniere conspired to start National Health Network in her name even though it was really owned and run by Raniere. NataliLie was just the front women to cover his ass..

      Toni knowingly broke the law by being Raniere’s front women. Now, she has the balls to call herself a victim of Raniere’s when she knows she shut the business down without his approval, and stoled from Raniere and Salzman who had loaned her 80,000 dollars.

      Toni also left town with a married man Scott Foley. Toni had no connection with her own son becasuse she abandoned him at the age of nine.

      Toni gave no consideration for Scott’s child either. She did what was best for Toni and moved Scott and her ro Florida where it was impossible for Scott to maintain a relationship with his biological child either. She could have Scott all to her self like a good narcissist wants.

      Some would you call Toni a homewrecker. I think that’s being way too kind.

About Frank Parlato

About Frank Parlato

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