Even before the branding started to be a DOS ritual, there was much interference with personal decisions and freedom.
How to make the intolerable tolerable and even to represent it as wonderful, special and magnetically attractive to join, to support?
If Keith Raniere didn’t have a core group of women and even some men who were following along with his demands, he would have had no “movement” for more people to join.
The inner circle’s contribution of peer pressure, their overall and devout representation of Raniere as being their “everything” certainly helped create the entire atmosphere. (Yet many opine that they were essentially victims.) The group itself provided Raniere with his stage setting.
No one seems to have joined via a gun to the head; it was never do or die.
Maybe Nancy Salzman presented a kind of “do or die” to her daughters, though. She was/is hardcore, in my observation. I think there were quite a few who became hardcore and no longer needed to be fooled about what the real motives were, as opposed this being about self-help or inner/outer “growth.”
Yet the entire setting was really more or less “do or die.” Raniere’s rules or else. His group is responsible for being a part of it; they were not animatronic objects, controlled by electronics switches or buttons.
These were volunteers who had free will and who allowed their free will to become subverted, squelched, dominated and commanded to cooperate with Raniere’s AND the group’s incentives and requirements. Step by step, each shut down common sense. Or perhaps some had little common sense in the first place. Each kept deciding to support the slaughterhouse as Utopian.
So, just how much does one feel sorry for them, either individually or as a group? This kind of evaluation is going to be pretty subjective, according to the thoughts and experiences of the observer, the one or ones doing the evaluating. People seem to have a lot of different responses regarding what combo of compassion, pity, scorn, anger, disgust, willingness to excuse or not to excuse a myriad of individual participants, as well as the group as a whole.
Do you see, for example, Allison Mack strutting around like a martinet who loved all of the ego food that being one of Raniere’s chosen ones provided her? Or do you view her as a poor lost lamb? Or as various combinations of both of these manifestations of her own behavior, her own words and her own decisions to partake in criminality and enslavement, etc.?
These deeply entrenched Nxivm members and later, the DOS individuals, had agreed to semi-starve, to limit their sleep, to view outsiders as targets. The outsiders were either to become culties or, at the other end of the spectrum, enemies.
Raniere set up that “us and them” and “us vs. them” structure to isolate and to control his subjects. This is necessary to exert control. The women agreed to an extremely eccentric version of sexual exclusivity with their Creepboy guru, too.
He could be the superhero manwhore, whereas the women accepted that they were only to have sex with him unless he said otherwise. They were willing to not only tolerate, but to fully support, Raniere’s set-up and to be recruiters for more specimens as chattel for Raniere’s conjobs and sexual dictatorship. He was the one who was given power to control their social dimension, their way of thinking, their emotional conduct, their definitions of their concepts, ideas. But still, his acolytes had to say “yes, yes, yes” and to believe in him, to believe that all of his insane shit was very, very good, beneficial, enlightening!
Without their willing cooperation, what would Raniere have even had to offer as a drawing card?
I doubt that he could have pulled much weight with his scamming and conditioning techniques WITHOUT the existence of his little communal troupe of devotees recommending him and themselves as being a positive organization for “human growth potential.” He couldn’t accomplish much alone. He had to have whatever he could get from the inner circle, money, a setting of busywork, tasks and a whole path being embraced by ardent supporters.
Yet it is obvious what Raniere and his group really wanted. They wanted more. They wanted more suckers to dominate, to make into sexual treats for their leader, (and for themselves) and they wanted more fresh meat to blackmail and to traffic. This can be seen as the opposite of spirituality, of kindness, of growth. In fact thinking Raniere was an example of good behavior, that Raniere held any divine intentions, is group insanity.
Peer pressure would have been hugely influential, appearing to make the group look successful, reasonable, desirable, magnetic. But I am not sure to whom it would have appealed. There had to be identifiable ” types” who were people who would not bother to think for themselves much, if at all. They had to want to join. They had to be willing to believe Raniere’s sexual persona was worth supporting.
Some of us would not have ever been receptive, in the first place, to ANY of Raniere’s personal interference and demands.
Tell me what I should eat or not eat, tell me that I must obey Raniere, tell me to limit my sleep and to do whatever I was told. Tell me that I must think with, solely identify with, a group agenda. Tell me that I must not think things over for myself.
I don’t know if I could even express a refusal cloaked politely, about any involvement within such a system of living. The entire group dynamic, not to mention its leader and the entire atmosphere of hidden motives is repellent. It angers me even to imagine surrendering to such a prison.
It got worse and worse among the group, progressively, too. Yet most stuck to it, devolving into branding others for more enslaved exclusivity, to performing more and more questionable or criminal acts, in the name of their leader and THEIR group, even as they fought among themselves, in effect representing no growth, no peace, nothing to gain, everything to lose. This was an individual choice, to support such a movement. That is how it started for each participant, who arrived at Nxivm’s door as individuals.
[…] Women Enslaving Women — for Nxivm […]
I’m currently reading Sarah Edmonson’s book Scarred. It’s an interesting insider’s look at Nxivm and DOS from the woman who was in charge of the Vancouver center and whose public exposure of the DOS branding scandal played a big part in Nxivm’s downfall.
Her book is revealing but it is also shamelessly self-serving. She, like all the rest of the gang, sees herself as a victim. Despite the fact that she recruited lots of people to the cult, she seems to think that she was somehow innocent of wrongdoing; she’s even chuffed that she garnered praise as Nxivm’s top recruiter. Is she oblivious to the fact that the organization she recruited for was a criminal enterprise? That the people she recruited were the objects of a con? That Nxivm has been legally judged a criminal racket? No, she’s impressed with herself that she was so efficient!
In my view, anyone who had an executive, leadership, or coaching role in this racket is morally at fault, possibly criminally so, and, as a matter of common decency, should be ashamed of what they did and utter nothing but apologies on the subject. To pretend to be a victim when you actually profited and benefited from Raniere’s scam is unconscionable. This goes for Mack, Edmonson, Kreuk, Vicente… the whole lot of them.
“I didn’t know” or “I was just doing what I was told” or “It seemed like a good idea at the time” don’t cut it.
People are responsible for their actions. Their intentions are a sidelight. People who advanced this cult and recruited for it are responsible for having foisted this nastiness on the world. They can’t in good conscience plead ignorance. It was their job to know what kind of thing they were promoting.
The only innocent victims of Nxivm were the customers. The people who paid for useless courses. Anyone who benefited, anyone who got paid, doesn’t get to play the victim.
There are far too many people in this world playing the victim, pleading ignorance, making excuses for their behavior. Let’s have some personal responsibility for a goddam change.
“She, like all the rest of the gang, sees herself as victim. Despite the fact that she recruited lots of people to the cult, she seems to think that she was somehow innocent of wrongdoing; ” Actaeon
What pisses me off the most about these NXIVM gangsters is how they all portray themselves as victims.
What did it take to wake up Lauren Salzman to the fact that she is a sex trafficker?
Mexican cops pointing machine guns at her head.
So Lauren Salzman is now a victim crying her eyes out in court.
Lauren conveniently forgot how she imprisoned a young Mexican woman for almost two years to force her to engage in sex.
All the top leaders of NXIVM are selfish, self-centered cruel criminals who deserve nothing but contempt and scorn.
None of them are victims.
Well said Shadow.
Thank you, Peaches.
This is how Amway and other RICO fraud MLM scams like NXIVM work. You think you’re promoting a legitimate business, but you don’t know the whole story until later. I find it hard to blame someone for not knowing information that was deliberately being withheld from them, and she wasn’t the only one. However, I think Edmondson has plenty of money from her acting career and residuals to afford giving back all of the money she made from NXIVM and her book and that would be the appropriate thing for her to do.
Actaeon. Wow. You have put it very well. I feel that depth here, of how you keep your attention focused, with each thought and word out of your comment. You take the time and the effort to communicate what you are seeing. This is exactly what we, each one of us, could aim to do, to keep on looking, keep on learning and to keep on communicating with one another. It is a great help. It helps me, anyhow. Very, very much.
The communication from Frank Parlato set it off, keeps setting it off here. Tony Ortega is another one of many people who keep maintaining open forums and valuable in-depth reportage.
Somebody willing to go out and risk being an activist. The writing and photos, the whole intensity of working to communicate, right or wrong, to tell it like it is through journalism.
Balancing how to edit any of it and to make sure to keep the respect for the the essence of conscionable journalism. It is a vow, renewable or compromised with every move you make.
How do you communicate? There is free speech. There is respect for privacy. There is a duty to expose ongoing or potential wrongdoing and to protect people via information, from criminal actions often unrecognized or being hidden or even being acceptable. But some jounalists are rewarded for taking sides with dangerous and cruel “allies.”
Whenever a local remark from people or a single person whose area has been infiltrated with Nxivm influence and activities has been sent here, you see how upset the neighbors of these (New York state) Nxivm places have been. The neighbors and communities have wanted Nxivm gone, gone, gone. It has impact to witness their thoughts and what they’ve seen, and to learn about their gut responses. To hear from Nxivm’s unimpressed neighbors, whenever the press picks up their words and publishes what has been said, is a privilege. The whole world can understand it more by hearing what the neighbors have seen. Then and now.
After all of the Nxivm arrests, none of this attention, exposure, could be avoided as effectively anymore. There were superseding indictments, there were public exposures of at least one attorney, before THAT door smacked shut. The one who got caught: Michael Avenatti. Say it loud. Avenatti, operating, in my opinion, like a conniving, dishonest shyster in plain sight. For years. Then came the plea deals rolled in from and for everyone except for the Biggest Loser.
Back in the neighborhoods, you know from witness testimonies what went on in some of those Nxivm/ DOS buildings. Too bad there is not public support providing legal means to demolish many of those places, tear them to the ground and really, really clean house. The way that the soil and the people and their chidren deserve the right to decide to clean house. Nxivm is like a curse and monster straight of hell. No honest-to-God woman wants dirt that contaminated anywhere near her hearth and home, her children, her husband, her environment. The whole family is precious to her. The honest-to-God men of this world are made of the same cloth and of this there is no doubt. Nobody wants Raniere or Clare or Allison next door.
We get to use the media as the message and to witness the very neighbors of Vileness, plus the people who got away from the world of Keith Raniere and Clair and Nancy and Allison and the Marias, the Daniellas and the Monicas. Here at Frank’s there is TALK about what it’s really like to have this in your own backyard, where your children and grandchildren have every right to be safe. It is outrageous.
The truth has to keep coming out, exactly, right down to fine details, what it is like having this criminality in your town, your neighborhood, across the street. Infesting your right to representative govenment while the big boyz and gurls sit on their hands, all the way to the tippety-top. This could have come to the court of law more swiftly if powerful backs had not stayed turned away, like sheep munching on weeds. Yes, it is revolting. Look how Nxivm thrived and lasted and was protected, whteher deliberately or through indifference. Or both.
Yet local complaints about Nxivm can be traced, yes it is in print, back to 1998. Those authorized and paid by our tax structures to protect the ones who dared to complain; those who trusted that they would be treated fairly and respectfully were not helped much if at all. “Authorities” kept dismissing the legitimacy of the reports being heard. Not being heard. It goes way back and way high up the social ladders.
Who sat on their hands for so long? Come on, police, district attorneys and their colleagues, well-paid privately staffed, legal hounddogs, fbi. Any which way you cut it, it all stinks. It burns.
“Screw you voices telling the truth. We got better things to do. Not listening!”
Oh yeah? Tell that to the blood of the people.
I’m determined to stay open and to keep on digging. Everyday renewing and starting over, continuing to educate myself and still to enjoy life too. There is so much. It is too beautiful to miss. But nothing of beauty to see in Nxivm/DOS. Rainbow Cultural Gardens, for the destruction of child and parental connections, to brainwash children. This is a coverup for international trafficking, for abuse and slave labor, and THIS all focused upon the youngest amongst us, the ones who can defend themselves the least. Nxivm is not the first cult, organization or gang to tread through these very same waters.
It is happening now. Go read about organized groups of gang rapists in London. Visit a broadcast interview with the woman police officer assigned to investigate the case of a 14 year-old gangbang rape victim and how the investigator was shut down for speaking up about what she was supposedly sent in to find. The truth. She, a mother of four, selected for her assignment because she worked so well with both immigrant cultures and most of all, with children. Shut down from above ranks. She is one of many talking similarly.
When you keep on looking and talking, this bolsters others, too. It is as if some wings fly more steadily, the more of us are propelling the volition. Even the disagreements from many different viewpoints are so strongly human. At least here, in this forum, we are talking about this stuff, out in the open. Spreading the more real words of each commenter’s thoughts and feelings and experience. Otherwise, Nxivm would keep thriving, parasitically spreading its canninalism of peoples’ personal lives, our liberty and our pursuit of happiness. This is totalitarianism directed against every aspect of living.
The funny thing is, the wide array of viewpoints being shared here in print is often what adds more and more impact, is really provocative, and this communicating gets us to pay deeper attention.
Hearing and talking with different viewpoints all listening paying attention is livewire. This is the underling basis for any community which is not hermit-hood isolation or anarchy. This communication spreads.
The best of any chance to listen quietly or to comment about Nxivm/DOS is right here. Our differences coming through are one of the greatest assets of true human nature. We get a sharper look at the “bigger truth,” because of the wide range of human experiences and viewpoints. This is freedom. To accept one another’s differences without insisting upon narrowminded conformity. If we were all alike, nature does not and cannot operate that way. Only differences can and do coexist, or everything cannot have more than rotten soil and genetics. When there is garbage, find our shovels.
It is the design of “the devil’s” subtle ways of influence, to make us think that we are no “good” if we do not conform to unwritten agendas, disguised as how we will only be right if we turn off individual thought experience and ignore our gut feelings as well. Have everybody put on big group blinders and buy the pre-scheduled point of the show, which was designed like a chessgame, to supervise the frigging groupthink and to control what’s fed into and out and from it. And also to arrange what is eliminable, what is censorable, as much as possible.
Or better yet, we all can be encouraged to be busy sleeping. “None of this affects me. Who cares?” “Don’t think twice, it’s all right.” Sure. Lying, cheating and stealing, well-scheduled and distracting propaganda events, then to be spoken and written about by prominent “press” to keep shoving groupthink down everyone’s throats. Keep the passivity tight and the blinders firmly in place.
This is something to be talking about all of the time, regarding the exposure thousands of rotten situations where people are being harmed. Or else nothing changes.
This is exactly how come deviousness, used as a force to do harm, (i.e., Nxivm and all of its offshoots) have to come undone. These power structures have to be forced out of existence. I see much of American and international politics as the exercising of a legalized, elite gangsterism, glossed over with slimy self-righteous judgmentality and pontification. Demi Moore looking for a few good men. She goes to the Pope to confess and find comfort and he says, ” bless you, my child. Pull down your panties now and get up against the wall.”
Too much is being allowed and tolerated by our very culture and by multiple cultures. Sometimes it is so urgently tragic. Much needs to be rectified. People need to talk about it.
The more we pay attention, think things over and and use the exposure to communicate together, the more cutthroats scamming off the very top are going to becomefrontpage news. This is refreshing. The opportunity to become more and more of whoever we really are – the Americans, the Mexicans, the Canadians, the Ethiopians , the Kurds, the French, the Arabics, wherever we come from and happen to live. The lone wolves and the extroverts, the ones who are shy and the tigresses. We are all the ones who can keep on talking about what is going on, now fastermthan ever news travels. Every place on earth people are living wh have, who can and who will draw blood, if necessary, to be able to keep watching out for our children.
This is what cult control removes and intends to destroy, to overthrow and then to command and to exploit. Peoples’ freedom. Once that free will has been conquered, the maniacal culty torments can be increased to become a total invasion, like an insidious biologic symbiosis, with ripples and even tidal waves of more and more infection and cross-infection.
Always, there is an edge or a scent of grotesqueness, packed into the cult and its gurus. This stench can be denied or ignored but the malintention creates its own image and eventually goes off, too often with some destructiveness, going “bang bang bang” before deteriorating or being lasooed and stopped. Like the Peoples’ Temple, like Heaven’s Gate, like Koresh. At least Raniere and a few of crew got handcuffed before they could wreak that degree of havoc. But there is more to this story.
Our deep varieties as people are one of the greatest human resources given to us by nature. It seems like common sense. Nature requires variety for any botanical or biologic growth, life or evolution to occur. At all.
There is nothing difficult to see anout this. Racism is utter insanity. Civil disagepreement is one thing, and prejudices and its many genocides are something else entirely. Enslavement kf others is beyond disgusting. What an impoverished way of living, being all “us vs. them.”
Every person who has tried to grow even a patch of garden appreciates that variety is the spice of life. We have no wampum without the richness inherent in every aspect of culture, or agriculture. You will know this if you or anyone you love has ever had their face ground into the dirt of human repression or desperation. That is, pretty much if you and your ancestors were ever alive. Only life can reemerge.
Who would want the whole world, our very environment, to be governed by the likes of Keith Raniere, as he and those like him, wanted, for the “betterment” of humanity? Imagine the hell of even getting pregnant within such a totalitarian regime. You would have no say or right to protect your own baby. This is the stuff of madness.
Behind the whole humane agenda, behind the personal advancement supposedly being promoted, these people were sex-trafficking on an international level, including using the underaged for sexual abuse. Raniere was (publicly) justifying his agenda about how it is good, legitimate thinking to sexually abuse the young and the innocent. It was fine to imprison someone, to build a dungeon and stock it with equipment and to use it for their own unconscionable activities. Their use, not only Raniere’s use. The gang was in on all of the deceptiveness. How many knew a young lady was kept captive for 2 years, ny zLaurean Salzman and company ? Who screwed and toyed with other females in bed with Raniere?
Slave labor was being patently, authoritatively viciously enforced. How would you like it if Clare Bronfman and say, Ghislaine Maxwell and Keith Raniere, the Salinas and Betancourt hoo-ha boys and Allison crackpot Mack and Jeffrey Epstein and frigging Nancy Salzman and her nasty posse of sub-lieutenants and recruiters like Nickelodeon Clyne ran YOUR life?
Come over to my house and tell me how to think, what to think and what to do. Inject your shit into my small arena of self-control. That is not a good idea. Seeing nasty and hideously misfiring powers-in-action is nothing new here. The territories of these jungle have my footprints. I came out alive. More than once. You can never go back, never surrender.
The people who have any genuine innocence, especially the ones who were recruited and then groomed by the culties, these are the ones for whom I feel understanding and compassion. The ones who were too vulnerable or too young yet, to see or to understand what was coming , what was happening, beneath the lies and the spoon-fed deception tactics, these have the most need to have the chance to find ways to heal. What to say of those who either make spiritual or psychological or sexual dictatorships into their Mission in life?
What to say, not only of Keith Raniere but of Nancy Salzman, who turned her own daughters over to an insane beast? To service his sexual megalomania and miserable perversions?
God. I hope never even to see Nancy Salzman’s leering face. Ever. All the way up from the the soles of my feet, through my gut and heart and breath, right up the spine, I want her days of evil ended. It is too late for her to redeem herself right now, because no doubt, Nancy Salzman thinks that she is just fine, even advanced, even superior. Have at it. Look down your Pinocchio noses and snort through your adenoids, stinky motherfuckers. I have my own earth, air, water, fire and the metal, right here, given to me at birth. So do the chidren you have enjoyed trafficking.
Salzman and Bronfman and Mack, etc. can go ahead and choke on their hallucinated superiorities. Somebody bring some whiskey. I will bring butterscotch and chocolate. The audience has been ready and assembled for a long time.
. Soon enough, more ceremonies in court. For the deliverance of not-enough-jail-time, except perhaps for the Head Turd already imprisoned. Raniere weeping and unkempt, pretending to know karate, with his feet soaked in his own piss and floating crap logs. Cumgratulations, jackwad. Thanks for the entertainment, now go lose some teeth and slump over and try to masturbate, surrounded by all of that prison luxuriousness.
The prison choruslines will be glad to help any old pervert work out his self-pity. Guys like Raniere are all alike under the skin. Cowards. Not every man in prison is Raniere’s kind of coward. It is obvious these men are disgusted by Raniere, too. He seems to have been stuck buying off skinheads for some protection. Even they have a “Judas” or two in their ranks who might take satisfaction in doing something to Keith Raniere. These people can go ballistic over a piece of gum; some of them like it like that. No wonder Keith Raniere keeps needing new eyeglasses. It could be his head or his neck or even his unprivate private parts that get lopped off.
There is almost nothing more deranged on earth to me than a “mother” like Nancy Salzman. Clare never reproduced a baby, so far as one hears. Cheers to that not having happened. Raniere might have more impact upon good men, who are men themselves. As a woman, a mother, a sister a grandmother, Nancy Salzman outrages me.
The worst symbolism representative of my own feminine nature, the way I am made, is a woman like Nancy Salzmzn, is Salzman herself. I don’t give a damn who knows it. She has promoted making people afraid to be themselves. To me, that is opposite of how to want to be a mama or a dad. She didn’t let her daughters learn how to think for themselves and instead, very narcissitically, she tried to make her daughters into living images of herself. She told them what to think and made sure that her daughters obeyed her agenda.
I have made myself throw away a lot of my written thoughts about Nancy Salzman, all too aware of who she is, what levels of monstrosity she represents to me. Here at our home are children, pets, art, music, wonderful foods, books, magnolia trees. The Healer. But I will not ignore noticing the Ranieres or the Salzmans or any carnivores who feast on peoples’ innocence or vulnerabilities, upon trust or generosity.
Other Nxivms, Scientologists and fascists who have kept at these disgusting cult or groupthink dogmas, thoughts and actions and who ignore the voice of true conscience, those who have refused to face what was and is happening, these people still ought to be stopped from harming anybody else. The more people who talk about it, the better.
To me, many of these people with sick and/or sickening motives seem to retreat, to step back and hide out, like turkey vultures roosting up in trees, waiting for the heat, for the attention, to shift away from them when they get outed, intending all along to keep up the destruction. They will still call their causes “self-help, enlightenment, opportunity.” It is not over, exposing even the Toni Natalies, who try to profit from twisting the truth right out of the mouths of those who have been hurt the most. It is not over.
Who is suffering right now, who is being groomed right now? That is always on somewhere on my mind. At moments I have to tone it down inside, not to feel overwhelmed. Most of all, about chidren being hurt and harmed. I understand how hard it is to face the lies and the facts, especially how it shocks those who are finding out these things for the first time.
There is still international movement happening amongst these people who promote Nxivm/DOS and its phases of development. It is ongoing, undeniably. There is garbage being propagated right now, as I sit typing. I am keeping on, being a garbage woman, identifying the trash, digging it up as I see fit. It has got to be exposed, over and over again, and then we will have impact to make changes.
The existence of any ongoing programs or plans out of such foulness will have to be cut off at the knees, shut down. Moment by moment, face-to -face. We have plenty of talking to do. Play it as it lays, say what you’re thinking, how you feel about it. This is how to keep going. Complacency is just old bubblegum stuck to the wall.
Good sense Shivani, as usual. Do you think the remaining Nx women understand this too? That it wouldn’t take more than any business start-up, to reconstitute what they had, but without the worst liability, ie KAR? It is easier to understand their behaviour in terms of rank criminality, than brain-washed devotion.
Are you, like Barb Bouchey, advocating the resurrection of NXIVM with the so called “good parts” only because Keith is in prison?
It’s a Ponzi scheme where those at the top live well and there must be endless recruiting of the down line to maintain the up line.
No one has yet to show us concrete evidence of any material good NXIVM did in the world.
Yet we have evidence of so much bad and what we don’t know as yet, and may never know, must be even more horrid.
To me, it is rotten to the core, the entire Nxivm commitment and its deliberatively planned and codified, falsified “philosophy.” Any who persist with Raniere’s agenda show their real faces. His agenda = their agendas, with various twists and tweaks. If these people continue to act upon identification with this kind of external and internal destructiveness, hopefully each will get what’s coming to them. Hopefully, the Nicky Clynes will be forced to stop harming other people anymore.
How come her sorry ass is even allowed (still) to be in the United States? Fake marriage, immigration fraud. And so much more. Huh? What’s going on? ICE all too busy building a wall?
I love Canada, have a grandma born and raised on Prince Edward Island, almost went to McGill University. Blah blah blah! But Canada, take that bitch back, please. Let her pollute her own neck of the woods; it is crazy enough in Brooklyn without her contributions. Get Out and take your damn spots with ya. Don’t ever come back. We have children to raise here, not with your venom.
It helps to keep spreading the known facts about the criminality of the entire organization persistently. Expose it all. Brick by brick and all the way to confronting the ones who held power and responsibilty to curtail Nxivm and who did little or nothing about its criminality for years. There is nothing to save from the trash heaps coming from Keith Raniere, better to break it off. Pulverize it. Put an end to the harm.
“Take out the papers and the trash.” Yes listen to the Coasters snap those fingers and get moving.
There are plenty more who are in the same business as the Bronfman sisters, the Salzmans, Mack and Raniere, one way or another. Insult the bastards. Demand accountability. Do something. Not a damn bit of Nxivm’s businesses should be allowed to keep promoting Raniere’s system of recruitment for sex-trafficking, unpaid labor, enslavements or their big sexual agenda about having sex with those who have been deemed by our own society to be below the age of consent. Why fall for any of these (alleged) creeps’ cover stories, ever again? This is just my opinion. Some are going to stay addicted to their longheld lifestyle. Just look around.
Allison Mack didn’t have any babies of her own, thank God. But what has she done for herself and by her own choices, in the name of Keith Raniere? How old is she, 37? She made all of her Raniere sex slavery decisions as a goddamn grown woman. She has not pleaded insanity for any of her egostical abusiveness, either. I can feel sorry for her and still think of her as a monstrosity. One doesn’t cancel out the other. Who has she harmed, what she has done to hurt other people? No one needs to tolerate that shit from Allison Mack or the Bronfmans or from Raniere’s psychotic, shrivelled-up malintentions.
It looks like some are mostly caught up in a deep state of co-dependency with one another, due to their own internalized peer pressure. And guilt. This is, or can be, very isolating and like a self-perpetuating “control group.”
“Just tell your hoodlum friend outside, you ain’t got time to take a ride.” ‘Scuse me while I lean into The Coasters for straight talk and everlasting arms. Gotta catch some. It is a Comfort.
I saw the Manson girls in front of the Los Angeles Courthouse as the trial rundown was happening inside. The odd, alien women were sitting there in a circle trying to conduct a deranged hootenanny. Out in the big open esplanade in front of the Courthouse. They wanted leople to join them as if it was Sing Along with Mitch, Bitch. Unbelievabke live theater of the absurd. They were all singing like possessed fools, jackasses looking for company and playing music in praise of Manson, with fresh scar marks carved into their foreheads. I am not kidding. All this in front of citizens and visitors to L.A. who watched, appalled, in passing.
Maybe you have to be American to get some of this slang. But holy fuck. History is intense, and we all have a lot of perspective to give. So let’s roll. Without Dianne Lipson’s eyes, ears and writing through Raniere’s trial, my own eyes would have lost so much. Her work is unforgettable. We all have story to talk. That is how Hawaiians describe authentic communication, we “talk story.” I got that story right from how Dianne Lopson leapoff the page. Same with the Miami Herald and Shaun Attwood in London. This is a dream coming true.
I saw these Manson chicks completely by chance, taken by surprise. Feeling in “safe territory.” Most of them were older than I was at the time. My fiancé knew L.A. like the back of his hand, but we had never seen any freaks as fucked up as these chickadoodles. These girls were out there. And the two of us had been around, and it still was news. The Manson hirls were ejected from sitting in the Courthouse’s frontage, permanently. It happened 2 kr 3mdaysmaftermwemonserved them there showing off like inmates from an insane asylum on a field trip.
My future father-in-law’s office, for years and in 1969, was in that Los Angeles Courthouse, and we would often go meet him downtown to have lunch together. My boyfriend and I stood less than ten feet away from the Manson circle and stared for awhile. We had been staying in L.A. throughout these murders. We were not far at all from the Los Feliz neighborhood “safe at home” the night that Rosemary and Leno La Bianca were murdered. It was a few weeks of tremendous, intense and widespread shock, grief, horror. It kept going through L.A. like a series of unstoppable jolts, through everybody everywhere, day after day, night after night. The story just kept getting bigger and more terrible.
I was only 18, first trip ever to L.A.’s crazy clutches and will never forget what and who my own eyes encountered in that Los Angeles Courtyard. The faces, the bodily motions and gestures from Mansonites. These strangely glazed-over eyes. Their monotone and singsong speech patterns. Their creepy sexual vibe. They all seemed to think this was all perfectly normal, as if they were just being friendly.
I still need to exhale, 50 years later!
These acolytes of Raniere are the same thing, only a different version, with different environmental arrangements, as the Manson family. Clare’s mugshot fits right in lined up next to the late Susan Atkins, the way it looks to me.
What starts sick, almost always stays sick. It has to be prevented from spreading or prospering in any way. Until or unless, one by one these people make a change within themselves, this is exactly what evil incarnate does; it festers. I have only myself to trust as the one who is doing this evaluating. No one needs to excuse me if it sound too harsh. This is just one voice.
Typing badly. Always sorry to reread how bad it is. How mangled. Grew up on pens and pencils and was never a secretary, only played one. While preferring pianos, and growing into toe shoes tucked with lambs wool and pink bunny fur. A castaway who’s apologetic for getting a “D” in typing. A fool in search of an edit button. Places to go, people to see and everybody wants coffee, tea and snacks right now. This must be a comedy. It is almost 3:30 in the morning, it’s going to work out fine. It’s Sunday.
Katie Hill, during her resignation speech, will now focus her attention on Donald Trumps impeachment. Apparently, after smoking her bong, she drank the water. I think she’s going to become a full fledge lesbian and hate men for good. Her ugly ass ex husband kind of reminds me of Raniere the way he turned people gay.
Hill literally took herself out of the Trump impeachment effort. Sure, she can support it from the outside, but she won’t have nearly as much influence as she would have had in Congress. She definitely drank the bong water.
I think Hill had her freak on for other women before she met her husband. I don’t think he was ever in charge of, or even an equal party, to their “relationship,” just another unemployed soy-boy.
“I think she’s going to become a full fledge lesbian and hate men for good. Her ugly ass ex husband kind of reminds me of Raniere the way he turned people gay.”
With Katie Hill’s fondness for pet goats she might even turn to bestiality.
There are other domestic animals that could be considered. Why only dwarf goats? On their farm, there is room for more animal husbandry.
She is done toots. Another hypocrite leftist turd bites the dust.
And her little doggie, too.
Peaches, keep your politics out of this venue and stick to the topic at hand.
Geez, what a dolt you are.
It’s really about buying into the ideology. If he can sell you the spiel about him being the “smartest, most ethical man in the world” AND any one of the things you grossly overpaid to learn BENEFITS your life in any way, then you will believe whatever he has to say. Walking in, your mindset is already “self-help” or maximum personal growth, so you’re going to get what you paid for, at least in your own mind.
Ramtha always said, “there are no seatbelts”, everyone was there because they thought there was “value”, excusing the fact that if you make it a second trip, you’re already brainwashed into their ideology. I didn’t go my first time to join a self-help group, I went to see if my family member was in a cult! I stayed because I BELIEVED that I was training myself to utilize more/other parts of my brain. I really didn’t like it, and I loved it at the same time. All of the disciplines are arduous, and you spend most of your time doing them, hating it. Then when you make it to the end, you feel proud of yourself for suffering through it like a champ! I believed that because I abhorred these rituals and disciplines, that’s why I HAD to do them. The cult experience is the “George Costanza” theory in practice. The opposite to what you believe is right! If you knew what was really going on, you’d already be rich, smart, successful…..you’re paying for the answers to the “ancient”, “secret” wisdom, it would be stupid to pay for it and not buy it, right? (Olympic Eyeroll)
Raniere never sold “…the spiel about him being the “smartest, most ethical man in the world”,” his small gang of evil women (and some men) did that for him. By the time Raniere met with the new person they were already hooked.
Those chickadees remind me of Joe Biden. Here is the truth about Biden and it applies to these silly bimbos and their relationship with Raniere
“Biden is a legend in his own deluded mind. A lap dog too dumb to conceptualize what the import of being “second fiddle” to the most corrupt, least intelligent, traitorous, POTUS ever, would entail. Doesn’t take “spine” or balls to humble one’s self to Veep for a nobody, with a completely fabricated past, a Clorox mopped history the media gave us, a ZERO. It takes a lack of brain matter. You told us Barack was “… clean, good looking, articulate, intelligent….”
—“Biden is “second fiddle” to the most corrupt, least intelligent, traitorous, POTUS ever,—
You are wrong…Biden is NOT the Vice President for Trump.
If you look at the historical record many if not the majority of people engaged in “pimping” or sex trafficking are female.
One thinks of Heidi Fleiss, Polly Adler, the Mayflower Madam.
This links is a partial list of brothel owners and madams or pimps.
Most are female.
American brothel owners and madams
And if you were to examine the facts you would find that the revelation of the sex slave operation within NXIVM created an exodus from the criminal gang and that exodus was led by the males in the group.
And Shivani I will let you in on a little secret.
When NXIVM is revived, and it will be revived, it will be led and financed by women, perhaps even the Bronfman sisters.
Read the most recent story about Nicki Clyne.
Nicki Clyne Weathers Storm of 9 People Quitting – Remains General Manager of Izzy Rose – Under Fake Name
The only way to explain this story is that Nicki has big money behind her.
I had this conversation with Yolanda Cortez aka Nicki Clyne: (Yolanda’s gravitar code was abfnt1)
October 5, 2019 at 4:26 pm
Sara is one of the most beautiful women in the world inside and outside.
October 5, 2019 at 5:33 pm
So Yolanda, aka Nicki, is Sara helping fund NXIVM until the storm passes?
Will Sara front Nicki’ some dough to help buy the NXIVM tech from under the Salzmans or will Nicki use some Mexican money for that?
When Allison finally gets out of the clink will Sara help provide Ally with a do nothing job in the new NXIVM?
Inquiring minds want to know.
October 6, 2019 at 1:54 am
That’s none of your business Shadow. Stay out of things that don’t concern you
Shadowstate, the most prominent male to leave the group was Mark Vicente, but it was his wife who resigned from NXIVM first. The NXIVM 9, who left years before DOS was publicly revealed or even existed, were all women. As I recall, they were deeply disturbed when they found out that Raniere was sleeping with his followers. Emiliano Salinas may have left due to pressure from his family. Salinas explained in a recorded phone call that collateral was a great thing. Please no more generalizations about which gender led the way in leaving NXIVM. But I enjoyed your interaction with Yolanda. More of that please!
It was also easier for the males to leave, because they weren’t cauterized with Raniere’s initials, blackmailed, and weren’t made to feel as inferior as women.
I wonder if Raniere was surprised he could get so many women to not only fall for his obvious ESP, NXIVM, and DOS bullshit, but then get them to recruit others?
Because I believe Raniere knew he was a fraud, he should be amazed he could con some many so easily.
This is my whole point. Toni Natalie was patient zero. She got out beside she would not make other women slaves. She is the Harriet Tubman of the modern era. I love you Toni. You are my angel. Viva Toni Natalie the Joan D’Arc of America. I worship your beauty and tenderness and know you never told a lie in your entire life. Worship you love forever. I await thee – your Concorde Jet who will fly you anywhere!!!
“She is the Harriet Tubman of the modern era. I love you Toni. You are my angel. Viva Toni Natalie the Joan D’Arc of America. I worship your beauty and tenderness and know you never told a lie in your entire life,” Dr. Gastone H. H. Porter
Dr. Gastone H. H. Porter aka Nicki Clyne
Laying it on a bit thick, aren’t we?
You must carry a large shovel to haul around that much crap.
Didn’t the Vanguard tell you that you were the reincarnation of Harriet Tubman?
Didn’t the Vanguard tell Allison Mack that she is the reincarnation of Joan of Arc?
And by the way, Dr. Gastone H. H. Porter, I thought there was only one H. in your name, not two H’s.
As a long time Chicagoan I know all about Dr. H. H. Holmes, aka Herman Webster Mudgett.
Dr. H. H. Holmes was also known as the Torture Doctor and the most famous book written about him was titled “The Devil in the White City.”
At 63rd and Wallace in Chicago’s Englewood neighborhood the bad Dr. H.H. Holmes built his Murder Castle.
He admitted to killing at least 27 people.
Ultimately the bad Doctor Holmes was hanged and his body covered by a concrete slab.
I hope Dr. Gastone H. H. Porter you are a good Doctor and not a bad Doctor.
Don’t bother trying to find Dr. H.H. Holmes’ Murder Castle.
It was demolished in 1940 and replaced with a US Post Office that is supposedly haunted by Dr. H.H. Holmes’ many victims.
And Englewood is not a good neighborhood, ghosts or not.
By the way H. H. Holmes was not a real Doctor any more than you are, Nicki.
He was thrown out of Medical School for stealing cadavers. (True!)
Reader compares Raniere and sociopath killer H. H. Holmes
Shadow, “Dr. Gastone” is playing you and you’re falling for it. Ditto as to Pea Onyu, Yolanda Cortez, Monte Bleu, etc. None of them are Nicki Clyne. They are pulling our chains and seeking a reaction from those who think they’re real. Ignore them and they will go away. Don’t waste your time and effort.
Orange County Dreams,
Orange telling Mr. Shadow to “ignore Trolls”…..is like telling a moth to ignore the flames.
GirlScoutCookies, Nutjob, myself, and even Scott Johnson have all pointed out multiple times that Pea Onyu is not Nickie Clyne….. to no avail….
People who identify themselves as “Girl Scout Cookies” or “Nutjob” are reliable sources of knowledge in your world?
As for Scott Johnson, he is still trying to figure out whether Amway is a scam.
Scott is the perfect candidate for NXIVM 2.0.
I am have come to the conclusion you have been trolling the trolls.
You may be idiosyncratic and dogmatic; But there is no denying your intellect. I think you see the trolls ruse for what is.
I guess I will never receive an honest answer from you if I am indeed right. Tally ho!
After dismantling parts, Concorde is no longer airworthy, has no fuel and no certification since it was taken out of service in 2003.
And I am not aware that civilian supersonic aircraft have landing rights anywhere in the world.
I was speaking metaphorically about the Concorde jet. I could be any type of aircraft she desires. Only I would take her to any where she wants to go and make the trip smooth easy and First Class since she is First Class and above all women so I would take her high above all the rest.
Dr. Gastone Porter, MD, LOL, MS, WTF, DDS, OMG, PhD, TWA, DD, NXIVM.
You’re growing degrees like mushrooms.
You had better get to the nearest Duane Reade or Walgreens store and get some anti-fungal ointment.
All you need MEATY THUMBS doc., Keep Up!!!
Meaty thumbs, hairy nipples, a small penis that doesn’t work, boxed feet, crooked eyes, Buck teeth…oh yes and mommy issues.
What’s your doctorate in? Your posts are ridiculous, and your writing seems lacking in any PhD intelligence. Guessing you’re getting something out of this, even if it’s just your jollies? Your instincts are sound though, you’re just the kind of loser Toni Natalie seems to be attracted to!
Dr. Gastone Porter claims to have Doctor’s degrees in Dentistry, Clinical Psychology and Divinity, with the Episcopal Church, no less.
In reality, Dr. Gastone Porter has a degree in Gaslighting from the Vanguard’s University.
And you’re right there like an obedient puppy dog to “put him in his place.” LOL
Here’s how interesting I think Porter’s gaslighting is, you would be the gas contributor while he is lighting the gas: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lighting+a+fart LOL
Dr . Gastone H. Porter is Toni NatalLie pretending to love herself as any good narcissist would.
She is distracting from the real message of the post.
Toni NatalLie stayed with Keith Raniere after CBI was shut down after it was ruled an illegal pyramid scheme by 26 State Attorney Generals.
Raniere, along with Pan Cafritz and Karen Unterreiner, were ordered by the NY State Attorney general’s office to not start another MLM type company.
Toni and Raniere conspired to start National Health Network in her name even though it was really owned and run by Raniere. NataliLie was just the front women to cover his ass..
Toni knowingly broke the law by being Raniere’s front women. Now, she has the balls to call herself a victim of Raniere’s when she knows she shut the business down without his approval, and stoled from Raniere and Salzman who had loaned her 80,000 dollars.
Toni also left town with a married man Scott Foley. Toni had no connection with her own son becasuse she abandoned him at the age of nine.
Toni gave no consideration for Scott’s child either. She did what was best for Toni and moved Scott and her ro Florida where it was impossible for Scott to maintain a relationship with his biological child either. She could have Scott all to her self like a good narcissist wants.
Some would you call Toni a homewrecker. I think that’s being way too kind.