By Dianne Lipson
On Friday, Lauren Salzman, 42, took the stand in the trial against Keith Alan Raniere. She was dressed in a black pant suit. At times she approached tears and spoke sometimes in a shaky voice. She avoided looking at Raniere during her testimony.
Keith, dressed in a blue sweater with a white shirt underneath, stared at her intently – sometimes not taking his eyes off of her for considerable periods of time.
She testified readily, despite the embarrassing nature of the topics.
Here is some of what we heard yesterday:
She spoke only a little about Daniela, the woman kept in a room for two years under the threat of sending her back to her native Mexico.
Lauren also acknowledged recruiting slaves for DOS and extorting them by demanding collateral that could be used for blackmail if they refused orders. But they didn’t dwell on that.
The prosecution seemed more intent on her describing life with Raniere.
“I was a slave with Keith as my master. I had other slaves under me.”
“He was my master. He was my most important person. I looked up to him. I wanted to be like him.”
“I considered him an authority on almost everything.”
There was testimony about how Lauren was unhappy about a writing project that had been assigned to her. This was an ethical breach because Lauren was visibly unhappy.
Keith had given her the assignment, and her unhappiness was destructive because it would make it look like the Nxivm ‘tech’ didn’t work and like she was destroying others’ perception of Keith.
She was acting mindless, comfortable and lazy. It was bad to be upset in front of people.
Lauren apologized profusely.
The Volleyball incident
There was another, more serious ethical breach that occurred during one of the late-night volleyball sessions – where women came to watch Keith play and sometimes participate in games. This ethical breach occurred in 2011.
At a game, Lauren playfully jumped on a man. She called it “roughhousing”.
Raniere was furious. “He said, ‘You straddled him,’” Lauren testified.
As a member of his harem, Lauren was not allowed to be with another man, only Keith.
[Keep in mind Raniere was having sex with some 20 other women at the time.]
Though she was only horsing around at volleyball, Keith told her this was inappropriate. It showed she wanted to be with other men. He accused her of being “easy” and, he declared, they could never have children together.
When Lauren described this, she was close to tears, if not crying.
Lauren had to devise a plan to heal her ethical breach. She presented him with a lengthy email describing all that was wrong with her, and what she would do to correct them.
In her “plan,” she wrote, “I’m perceived as easy or available.”
“This degrades me and sets a bad example for the organization and reflects poorly on Keith and his choice to be with me,” the “plan” said.
She told jurors, “I saw myself as dysfunctional.”
Siobhan [a gay woman familiar to readers of Frank Report] was a Nxivm member. She and her wife, Christine, wanted to have a baby. They wanted to use an anonymous sperm donor.
This was a terrible thing to do – to not to want Keith’s sperm, because this might change the perception of Keith. He was deeply offended, even though he planned to reject the request anyway.
Siobhan was subsequently not eligible to participate in Nxivm business opportunities.
“He didn’t understand why she didn’t want him as the donor,” Salzman testified.
Salzman also recalled that Raniere said his child would receive reduced tuition to Rainbow Cultural Gardens.
“His children would have 50% off on that,” Lauren told jurors.
Lauren described the inner circle.
There was Dawn Morrison, Nancy Salzman, Lauren herself, Barbara Bouchey, Kathy Russell, Daniela, Mariana, Camilla, Loretta Garza, Monica Duran, Ivy Nevares [Ivy was another who was promised a child and never got one], Daniela, Clare Bronfman, Jim Del Negro, Alex Betancourt, [redacted], Emiliano Salinas, Nicki Clyne, Allison Mack and others.
The women in Keith’s inner circle had sexual relationships with Keith and knew about each other.
At some point, Daniela and Ivy were excluded from the inner circle.
Some left. [Editor’s note: Bouchey left in 2009, when Susan Dones, with her spouse Kim Woolhouse, after careful deliberations, and several private meetings with Keith, decided to lead seven women out of Nxivm. Dones filmed Raniere for 10 hours during those meetings.]
Lauren describes the role of Pamela Cafrtiz, who Lauren said was Raniere’s closest girlfriend. Pam came from a wealthy family and was friends with Mariana. The three of them, Keith, Pam and Mariana were inseparable. [They lived together].
The government asked if this relationship was romantic or sexual.
Lauren answered yes.
Lauren spoke about the rankings in Nxivm. Keith was first. Then Nancy. Then the purple sashes, which were [the late] Pam Cafritz and [the late] Barbara Jeske. Then came the greens. [Lauren is a green. Other girlfriends of Keith were also greens such as Dawn Morrison and Barbara Bouchey].
Clare Bronfman’s role was to support Keith. Clare was characterized as being responsible for some of the bad media. And she was trying to make amends and covering costs related to that.
There were private nicknames Keith gave women. Lauren’s nickname was Forlorn [For-Lauren] because she was sad and suffering. Suffering was seen as indulgence.
“Suffering was something indulgent,” Lauren testified Keith taught.
DOS First Line Slaves
Lauren explained the pyramid structure of DOS with its system of masters and slaves. Keith was called master or grandmaster, depending on what level of slave one was.
DOS, she said, was also known as “The Vow.”
Lauren was a first line slave. Her own slaves would call Keith, ‘Grandmaster’, while she called him “master.”.
Lauren admitted she concealed from DOS recruits that Raniere was involved. [She lied to the women and told them it was a female-only sorority for female empowerment, leaving out the critical fact that it was led by a man.]
The prosecution showed a chart of the first line slaves in a circle around Raniere.
Lauren named the eight first line DOS slaves who answered directly to Raniere:
They were: Herself, Allison Mack, Loreta Garza, Rosa Laura Junco, Nicki Clyne, Monica Duran, Dani Padilla [the woman who had the sex toys shipped to her] and Camilia [now in her late 20s, who is the Mexican woman Raniere is accused of sexually exploiting when she was 15.]
Lauren described meetings of the first line slaves.
At the start of the meetings, the first line slaves would offer tribute to their master, Raniere.
When Raniere was in attendance, the eight women would remove their clothes and sit on the floor in front of him, while he sat in a chair and spoke.
If he was not in attendance, they would pose for a naked group photo and send it to him, making sure that their pubic brands with his initials were visible.
“At the start of every meeting, we would take a naked photograph for Keith. It had to be fully frontally naked and our brands had to show. We had to look uniform and fully happy,” Lauren said.
After removing their clothes and taking the picture, first line members would discuss DOS business such as recruitment, a project for a book titled, “The Game” and creating “a dungeon.”
The group met in secret three times a week for 10 hours. At first, the meetings were held in someone’s house. Later, they got a house for this purpose that was called the “sorority house.”
When Keith attended the meetings, the women all got naked as Keith sat in a chair, fully clothed.
“When he attended, we would all get undressed and sit below him,” Salzman said. “He would sit above us on a chair” with his clothes on.”
“We would talk about a lot of different things, philosophical concepts.” she testified.
When the information came out about DOS [On the Frank Report] enrollment stopped. But after awhile, Keith wanted to start up enrollment again. This never happened. [Frank Report halted DOS].
How long have you known Keith? Lauren was asked. She answered 20 years.
Lauren said, in 1998, when she was a senior in college, she was introduced to Raniere by her mother Nancy.
Nancy told her daughter that she and Raniere were starting a “human-potential school” and was excited about her work with Keith.
“I thought he was a little strange,” testified Salzman. “I felt awkward around Keith at first.”
After she graduated, Lauren traveled. Then she came back to live with her mother.
Nancy wanted Lauren to attend ESP [Nxivm] classes for six months and if she did that, Nancy said she would support anything Lauren chose to do. Salzman, then 21, enrolled in the program.
At the end of six months, Lauren wanted to stay with ESP. She thought Keith was a really smart guy with innovative ideas.
Keith encouraged Lauren to move out of her mother’s house. At the same time, Keith encouraged Nancy to start charging Lauren rent. Lauren started looking for somebody else to live with.
Lauren soon began to consult with Keith on everything. Before planning to make a trip out of town, buying a house, visiting grandparents and medical decisions, she sought his advice and permission.
Raniere advised her on her ideal weight. He even offered to examine her in her underwear to be certain. She stripped down to her underwear and he told her that she should weigh 100 lbs, Salzman said. [She is about 5’4”].
“He thought a good weight for me would be around 100 pounds,” she said.
She first had sex with Raniere on April 1, 2001. [April Fools].
Lauren said she was fully devoted to Raniere after their sexual relationship began in 2001, even though he openly slept with other women.
“For me, it was a monogamous relationship,” Salzman testified.
She kept the affair a secret from her mother and the NXIVM community at Raniere’s insistence. Lauren said it wasn’t easy keeping their affair secret from her mother.
Their affair continued for the next eight years – from 2001 to about 2008 or 2009. Then there was a break. The next time they had any kind of physical relationship was in 2017.
In 2005, he took nude pictures of her on a bed in his library, which later wound up in the hands of the government when they raided the house. Lauren was shy about taking these pictures. She was worried that somebody else would see the photos, but Keith told her not to worry.
Lauren testified that Keith preferred a woman who did not trim or shave her pubic hair. If she loved him, she wouldn’t do that. [She didn’t.]
Keith suffered to have sex with other women
In explaining why he had to have sex with other women, Lauren said Keith explained it as a hardship that he endured to further the women’s personal growth.
Raniere claimed his sexual duties with the women were “sometimes very difficult” — but the self sacrificing Raniere said he believed he could use sex as a tool for “personal growth” for women, Salzman said.
Lauren became aware that many women were unhappy about their relationship with Keith because there were so many other women.
If anybody wanted to leave, Lauren would help them to find out why were they having this emotional reaction.
If you had a reaction, an emotional reaction, about Keith having all these other women, this was an opportunity for you to work through your issues. And if you left, you were denying yourself this opportunity to work through your own issues, Keith taught.
When women would become upset about the other women he was sleeping with, and think about leaving, Raniere would ask Lauren to lure the women back.
Lauren did this by explaining Keith’s philosophy that people’s emotions were reactions to inner issues, not outside events.
“If you left, you would be covering up that issue and your opportunity to work it through,” Lauren explained. “…Stay and be happy. Be joyful.”
Promise of a child
One day Lauren herself wanted to leave Raniere. Lauren was actually hoping Keith would end the relationship, but he didn’t. Lauren was trying to be strong enough to leave.
After reuniting with a flame from high school, Lauren wanted to not be one of 20 women and be another man.
Raniere’s reaction to this was that he said he was considering resigning as the Vanguard.
Her mother worked to keep her involved and told her she had to learn how to be mindful and that it would be terrible if the leader of the community resigned because of her.
Keith, to help keep Lauren in his harem, promised her a child.
“He told me that if I stayed he would invest in our relationship and we would have children,” Lauren said.
But they never did.
Raniere was viewed among the inner circle as possessing supernatural powers.
There were myths about Keith that he could control the weather.
If there was a snowstorm after he developed a new teaching, Salzman said, many in Nxivm would attribute the change in weather to the ideas he presented.
There was a story that he strolled through a rain shower without getting wet while the woman he was walking with got drenched.
Raniere was walking with a female friend and she was not agreeing or understanding Raniere.
It rained on the woman but not on Keith. Only the woman got wet.
Lauren did not take this as a metaphor, but an actual incident.
“It was raining,” Salzman explained. “But it wasn’t raining on him.”
People also believed technology acted “funny” around Keith because of his “energy”, Salzman said.
Because of Keith’s vibration, he went through a lot of computers, because he had a special energy.
There was a point where Keith wanted to have sex with more than one woman at the same time. He said threesomes were key to “personal growth.”
Lauren named a half-dozen women she said the two of them had sex with, including Allison Mack.
“Initially, I participated because I was curious,” Lauren said.
Later she continued because “he wanted that.”
Keith was insatiable and for a time wanted threesomes every day. It was more than Pam Cafritz wanted and she complained about it.
After being promised to have a child with Keith – which never occurred, Lauren had a total meltdown when she found out Mariana was pregnant. [Mariana gave birth to Keith’s son in August 2017].
She became upset, hurtful. Her reaction created difficulties with Mariana and, in the end, Lauren had to apologize for her immature behavior.
She ended up committing to stay with Keith without any sexual relationship or to ever have any children.
Lauren will resume her testimony on Monday morning.
[…] to her underwear in order for him to evaluate her ideal weight, which was 100 pounds, according to her court testimony. It was not long after that, she testified, that she was sans underwear, and in return, he was […]
This is the funniest thing ever: ” There was a point where Keith wanted to have sex with more than one woman at the same time. He said threesomes were key to “personal growth.”
Who the hell believed this and the weather thing? Who has an iq of 60? I assume most didn’t hear this?
nice way to elevate oneself to victimhood
mommy daughter threesome
ranieri got it goin on
the first I read about this
vanity fair or one of them magazine three years ago
before this kabbalah orgie of learning centre
I was shock
then I remember parties in Vancouver years back
ACTOR always look for self help
to be bigger,liked to be worship
they got what they payed for
rain on her not me
the testimonial witness by her
all those ladies get burn for love
you cant hardly get skank to get tattoo
give applause to Keith
ladies in circle
wow that s hot
slave in closet for two years, she was part of it
she get off
mommy daughter threesome
not just vivid porn
step dad daughter
my fave step sister
Keith you the man
how and why this end
should have kept close to
who wants to start harem
5″4 100 pound
same height of girl on the bus yesterday
with her front expose
so damn pretty
but her front was in my face
for all to see her hot camel
so skinny, camel was bigger than her
salzman you the queen
Blk Kusa arise! you are the Nxivm laureate!
[…] the article Lauren Salzman’s Sensational and Damning Testimony, Frank Report observed, “The prosecution seemed more intent on her describing her life with […]
“The prosecution seemed more intent on her describing her life with Raniere.” What else does Lauren Salzman have to describe? This is the testimony of someone who subsumed herself, handed herself over to at least a 20 year sentence in cult hell at age 21, with her ambitiously hideous mother’s full approval and urging. She’s got nothing else to talk about besides her entire, so-called adult life being spent acting as a martyred, starving, busyworking, groupie-guru sucker, desperate for a sadist’s attention and approval.
She devoted herself wholeheartedly to her own misery within the groupie troupe. As if Lauren had no choices, she even agreed that her feelings of (justifiable) unhappiness were to be seen as self-indulgence. She hammered the nails into her own coffin of fear, willing to evaluate herself as full of inferiority and unworthiness. Then she kept worshipping the creep who wanted her to feel inferior and unworthy.
She was one of many women with Raniere who felt this way and yet still kept working for Raniere, doing ménage á trois jobs, pimp jobs, financial scam jobs, as if shellshocked from their deity and his self-sabotaging version of groupthink, alongside the vanguard self-blame edictions.
Lauren has given the exact date of the first time she had sex with her “Master.” April 1, 2001 still appears to be a day that goes down in history (herstory) because Lauren began her hallucinatedly monogamous sexual relationship with the slick, smelly sperminator on that day.
18 years later she sits on her backside in court and still gives the impression that she thinks this pathetic sexual exchange was somehow sanctified, sacred. Yet it is memorable only in her delusory, milquetoast mind, nowhere else. She was just been another exploitable hole, guilty pleader and slave plus slave master. Now she boo-hoos as if it’s a soap opera, and she’s just soooo hurt. Is there a sash for that?
Forget that she has acted criminally and pled guilty. She seems to be offering as the overall theme of her testimony that it is mostly an unreconciled pity-party for herself. Maybe she is hoping her own perpetrator shit will slip through the cracks of her victimhood. To paraphrase, “the devil made me do it.”
Lauren looks to be still all tangled up, crying in court about never having had any babies with her Master, after twenty years of Raniere successfully running his number on her and her group of peers. Her comprehension of criminal activity and intent seems buried beneath her ongoing emotional avalanche. Her remorse doesn’t seem to go much past her own nose, and she has spent at least twenty years with her nose lodged up Raniere’s rathole as one of his primary asskissers. Good for the prosecution for letting the damage speak for itself and as testimony, from the mouth of Lauren Salzman.
Maybe Lauren will let herself get mad as hell at her fallen god when she continues her witness performance on Monday?
Your posts are some of the most boring, unimaginative, repetitive and rehashed garbage that I’ve ever read. 🙂
Lauren and the prosecution are doing a great job in painting a picture for the jury of the demented world of NXIVM, including the ‘absolute control’ which Keith wielded over its members via holding blackmail material.
Trust me, even the ‘non criminal’ behavior being described by each witness (regarding Keith) is slowly painting a picture for the jury of a man who is not only batshit crazy, but a real sicko and sociopath too.
The government’s closing summation will neatly tie together every relevant point made by each witness, bringing everything into clear view for the jury to see right before they vote.
Can you imagine the government’s closing statement WHEN they shut down Agnifilo’s argument of Keith creating DOS because he wanted women to have society to better themselves?
The government will point out that Keith controlled, blackmailed, humiliated, had sex with and branded these DOS women with his initials —- so how can that translate to Keith wanting to help these women?
Agnifilo’s argument (of Keith wanting to help women) just can’t resonate with the jury — and the government’s closing summation will absolutely destroy Agnifilo’s credibility once and for all.
As for you, you may wish to do the world a favor by at least considering the option of OFF’ing YOURSELF. 🙂
Shivani – Do not be offended by Bangkookery – it is his shtick. It’s actually funny once you realize he doesn’t mean it but intends to be insulting to get a rise out of people. I especially enjoy it when he insults me.
Good post, Shivani. Take out Bangcocks first and last sentences (which are solely there to try to sucker reactions), and the d-bag even agrees with your post.
“Lauren did not take this as a metaphor but as an actual incident.”
Correction: Lauren SAYS she took this as an actual incident, which -if I may play angel’s advocate – is unmitigated bullshit on her part.
Lauren was around when Keith’s cruder, less well-financed demonstrations of his alleged powers set off more bullshit detectors than any other apparatus among the sane, if greedy or like-wise power-mongering, in his orbit.
Keith’s powers drastically increased through Lauren’s own mother – Nancy Salzman’s – ability to hypnotize and con Keith’s strolling companions and her hacker brother-in-law, Ben Myers, ability to to covertly collect info to assist Nancy and whomever else rewarded her in their mind manipulation efforts.
Lauren’s a goat in sheep’s clothing who admittedly caged a young Mexican woman who sought Ben Myers’ attentions that were promptly redirected toward Nancy’s second daughter, Michelle, during her imprisonment.
What’dya think, Shadow, you’re going to make Allison jealous or submit to your lustful desires by supporting Lauren as “good, upstanding wife”
material by comparison to Allison – as you’ve blatantly done on here?
By misstating the known facts themselves making Allison accountable for acts, such those surrounding Sarah Edmondson’s branding and sextortion you’ve “mistakenly,” repeatedly attributed to Allison and not Lauren.
You’d better hope these distorted facts are perceived as blind lust and not part of the deliberate effort to pin the blame on Allie that was clearly the plan, one of them, from the get-go. The only mention of Allie was that Sarah’s branding ceremony took place at Allie’s home conspicuously paid for, as we now know, by Clare Bronfman. Funny how Dr. Brandon Porter’s pad was another Allison-leased property underwritten by Bronfman isn’t it?
When you twist these facts as much as you’ve done on FR, it does cause one to wonder about your motives if not your sanity.
Conspicuously paid for by Clare Bear, you say?
…as though that somehow proves something? LOL.
Guess what, Mistress Heidi?
Clare Bear paid for damn near everything.
You’d be hard pressed to find a single part of NXIVM that was able to exist without financial help from Clare Bear’s wealth.
NXIVM’s business model was not sustainable by itself, without Clare Bear’s money.
It wasn’t a real business. It was a CLOWN organization which bled money left and right.
Oh, and another thing…
Lauren is a LOVELY and BRAVE woman. Please stop disrespecting her, Mistress Heidi.
She bravely took the witness stand. That’s more than you’ve done.
Even though she’s 42, she looks 10 years younger. She has no cankles either.
In fact, if she ever gets that huge nose of hers fixed (via plastic surgery) then she’d be serious wife material.
And if she’s willing to cook and take out the trash, she’ll make any man a fine wife one day.
“What’dya think, Shadow, you’re going to make Allison jealous or submit to your lustful desires by supporting Lauren as “good, upstanding wife”
material by comparison to Allison – as you’ve blatantly done on here?”
None of these NXIVM women are good wife material.
None of these NXIVM women are good role models for other women.
And none of these NXIVM women should be mothers.
Would you entrust a child to the care of these NXIVM women?
By making Allison accountable for acts,
you’ve “mistakenly,” repeatedly attributed to Allison and not Lauren.
Under Conspiracy Law a person does not have to be physically present for a crime to be responsible for it.
Allison and Lauren are both part of a conspiracy to engage in sex trafficking.
The overt act of branding the slaves is part of the sex trafficking.
Allison Mack did not have to be present for every branding.
Let;s discuss your motives, Heidi.
Heidi: For the Defense of Allison Mack
“Allison mugs for the camera like a character actress, not a leading lady or any prima dona I’ve ever known.
She’s a “bottom” not a “top” in the parlance of the BDSM world. She offers her tongue, submissively…not unlike the other sheep in Keith’s fleeced flocked.”
Heidi, you twist the truth until up is down and black is white.
Is it relevant to guilt or innocence whether Allison Mack is a character actress or a leading lady?
Allison Mack was the chief keeper of the NXIVM harem.
Allison Mack is responsible for NXIVM DOS and all of its acts.
And of what relevance is it that Allison is a “bottom” in BDSM and not a “top”?
Allison enforced the rules on the slaves with an Iron Hand.
Allison sold NXIVM DOS as a sorority of sisters.
Did Allison explain to the women beforehand that what she was really selling was a BDSM cult?
Ask Catherine Oxenberg if she thinks Allison was a bottom or a top.
Ask Catherine Oxenberg if she thinks Allison was a masochist or a sadist.
“I haven’t seen a stitch of make-up on Allison Mack’s face in any photograph of her leaving or coming to court for an appearance yet.” Quote by Heidi
One of my favorite quotes by the writer Dorothy Parker:
Dorothy Parker > Quotes > Quotable Quote
“Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes clean to the bone.”
― Dorothy Parker
“So what if she’s girlishly flirty with the older men – that’s a “Daddy” thing, IMO.” Quote by Heidi
Allison’s Daddy Issue of flirting is a sign of Allison Mack’s manipulativeness and immaturity.
Heidi, If you want to know if there was a precursor to Allison Mack there was.
In the early days of Hollywood there was a comic actress named Mabel Normand.
Miss Normand was involved in so many scandals that her career was over by the age of 34 and she passed away of tuberculosis at the age of 38.
Show Business will chew you up and spit you out and Ms. Mack is about to be spat out.
Heidi twisted nothing contrary to you shadow.
You twist EVERYTHING the worst way…going to the point to see Allison’s reading as a proof of her madness.
You don’t care about fact and citing Cat is even further support of this!
You really try my patience but it’s getting borderline, my finger is on the button, I’m tired of your false accusations!!!
You are sick and better stop now because there is no way back, you bring the proof against yourself every time you post!
Allison was the chief of anything! This, the court knows and proved! She had no power in DOS and this is also proved clearly!
There is nothing showing that she was an iron hand (quite the contrary… I remind you that Vicente himself said that India (you know, the daughter of the women you blindly believe but also the VICTIM HERSELF) was adoring Allison.
Cat knows Nothing….she pretend she was in contact but I doubt she had any kind of contact with anyone .
Even India said she didn’t talk to her mother.
If what you just tried isn’t twisting fact. what is it then?
Leave Allison alone, before this is going further. I kept every detail (including the current conversation) and the file is getting big against you!
Don’t think that all your fake accusations are going to be left unpunished. Defamation per se isn’t the usual defamation.
This is an absolute criminal behavior and you are practicing it for quite some time!
(And before Scott comes back with a useless comment, defamation cases often skip, defamation per se do not!)
Mack is going to have a hard time with a defamation case against Mr. Shadow, she’s an admitted felon and would be open to discovery if she sued him. LOL
It’s a defamation per se, slow brain…It means Allison has Nothing to do! He is punished by default.
Read the law!
You don’t seem to understand how the US legal system works. You go on and on about defamation, which maybe is a real legal jeopardy in your country, but not in ours. For example, the highly litigious Bronfman sisters, have thrown everything but the kitchen sink against their perceived opponents – but never once defamation.
Nothing about Mack and DOS has yet been proved – other than, arguable, what the grand jury found probable cause to indict her for, which included sex tracking, and then what she actually plead guilty to when she made a plea deal, admitting in her allocution that she had hurt people, and deceived them to recruit them into DOS. We have yet to see actual testimony on key points, such as the extent to which she was responsible for running DOS, overseeing and even orchestrating the branding.
Because you understand anything?
Defamation per se is from the US LEGAL SYSTEM.
When a person makes a false CRIMINAL accusation, this is defamation per se!
You should worry too because you practice that a lot.
I advise you (before giving lessons to others) to make some search about “DEFAMATION PER SE”.
An average defamation goes nowhere but a PER SE is a crime.
You can’t just accuse wildly people about CRIME THEY NEVER COMMITTED!
What you (and scoot) fail to understand is that she was never accused of most of what Shadow (and you) accuse her.
As for the rest of your stupid comment…I Don’t pay attention to a FORCED INTERVIEW…but you sure love the false information you can get from it.
She (and that is from the COURT INFORMATION) is not doing anything you or shadow accused her and the Branding is definately not her idea nor her orchestration.
You continue to Believe your usual BS based on Nothing instead of sticking with facts and that shows the kind of moron you are.
I take sms and mail as a proof (especially compared to a forced interview where she didn’t really admit anything…”you all have tattoos…” is hardly a confession…moron.
You are a waste a time and Energy. A pathetic loser who give Lesson he fail to follow and continuously ask for “proof” yet accuse Allison SYSTEMATICALLY without the slightest proof.
Just get a life, you are making a fool of yourself EVERYTIME you post.
only your opinion matter
real soap opera
you people make me sick
caught up in others life
it’s not illegal
your mouth of serpent is
Jewish sex cult
vanilla chill out
take some time off
is your ownership
can see you have that master
for more important endeavours
hootsuite laid me off
my big ass haus ok
searching for slave to move in
Keith inspired my kink search
Shadow, I hesitate to question you because I might get a three page rebuttal replete with historical references plus quotes and links out the ass..
It’s been said here that Allison had “dupe” written all over her when she joined and that is why she was recruited and “promoted”, losing all her assets to boot. They never gave her any real power. Isn’t there any way you can modify your absolute, unbending hatred of her? Likely none of these women are blameless, but do bear in mind they were operating in a sleep deprived, nutritionally deprived, abusive atmosphere – fueled by the constant reinforcement of the wonders of KAR by their supposed female “friends.”
Why do you think Allison, of all of them, is the Devil Incarnate? What about Lauren Salzman? Nancy Salzman? Karen Unterreiner? Pamela Cafritz? Kristen Keefe? Barbara Jeske? etc., etc.? Why do all these other women escape your deepest wrath?
It seems like you have something in particular against Allison because she is attractive in your view – or unattainable.
I don’t want to encourage discourse on this site, but you IMO are over the top and Frank keeps fueling the fire. Allison, Allison, Allison – it never stops. Why don’t you focus on the source? KAR.
Wow. Kristin Krook must have some incredible power over them that they refuse to name her as the ultimate mastermind behind the Vanguard, personally branding women men and children alike with an iron so hot it could only have been snatched directly from the clutches of Satan himself!
Piss off spanky
Shes still a believer
I had the thought that the brand only included KAR as well. I’m sure this has haunted Allison.
I also believe there’s a strong possibility the design was made such that Allison’s alleged initials could be read into it. KAR could have convinced Allie that hers were included to “empower” her role as “Pimp Mack” and false hopes of being the “one” or #1 that they nearly all have vied for – for so long as that was viable.
Do we know, btw, who designed the brand? The Talented Michelle Salzman? …Recalling Michelle’s artwork FR posted back about last October – one skinny slave sketch of Michelle’s has a blacked-out blotch where the brands are located on the DOS victims.
That would put Michelle, Nancy Sslzman’s Unindicted daughter on the DOS design and planning crew of the fam’s biz her mommy dearest owned. And what else were she and her hacker hubby doing for work, if not stashing their Nx “earnings” away, anyway.
Damn straight the 3 Salzmans
and Myers helped set Ally up to take the fall for all, IMO. She’s been used as a human shield in this since IDK when if you ask me. Most recently by the fact of Mack’s own Bronfman and/or Salinas paid lawyers – and Clare’s AZ mafia attorney Dennis Burke is proof of potential Salinas persuasion at the very least – failing to convince Allison to take a plea ahead of Nancy & Lauren Salzman’s backstab deals that beat her to it.
It’ll be interesting to hear more deets on the “monogram”
as prosecutors call it. Other than that I haven’t seen any indication of where they stand on the weather AM is there or just someone’s idea of frame-up for Allie to take the blame as other factors do indicate to me.
You’re missing the big picture by focusing on bullshit, as usual.
Guess what, Mistress Heidi?
The only initials contained within that branded monogram are “KAR”.
The “AM” (which you purport to see) is just an optical illusion combined with Frank’s obsessive need to see things which aren’t really there.
That’s why Frank rants and raves about Clare’s plea deal.
Frank obsessively ‘sees’ (i.e. Frank false thinks) that Clare was the secret brains behind the NXIVM racketeering enterprise.
In fact, Keith was the only boss and Clare served at his beck and call. She was little more than a fangirl servant who just happened to have a fat wallet.
If Keith had asked Clare to eat Jello mixed with farts at precisely noon each day, she likely would have done exactly that.
She was no ‘boss’.
It doesn’t matter what her official job title and position on the NXIVM board indicate. It’s all just smoke and mirrors. Keith was the only boss. Everybody else was a minion.
Clare’s plea deal was fair and accurate. She took part in smaller acts but was not a major PLANNER of anything. She funded things which Keith asked her to fund. She was a dummy, not a mob boss.
…And who gives a flying fuck about who designed that logo?
Why would you even waste time thinking about that?
Your speculation about Michelle Salzman designing that logo is akin to a child’s speculation that the moon is made of cheese.
Your comment about Ben and Michelle stashing money is also just typical Heidi bullshit, which emanates from the endless depths of Heidi’s fertile mind.
I seriously doubt they’ve hidden any money since you can’t hide money from America unless it’s cash.
You can’t send money to a Swiss bank account from America secretly. You’d have to physically carry it there and show your passport to open the account. This isn’t the 1970’s anymore. The Bee Gees are no longer climbing the charts either. The world has evolved. Secret bank accounts don’t exist anymore.
They didn’t hide any money — unless they physically took loads of cash to an offshore account or buried it in their yard.
Gawd you say some of the dumbest things imaginable sometimes, Mistress Heidi.
You’re hilarious, Bangkook. (Psst: I gotta toy that’ll have you begging to eat out of my toe jam in no time, Footsie.)
“Night fever, night fever, night feve-e-r, we know how to do it.” 4 dudes who knew how to harmonize in perfect pitch over 4 octaves…..BEE GEES 4-EVER!!!!!!!
(Er, was it 4 or 5 of them? Keith NLP’d me so well I just don’t remember. It was, however, the 80’s not the 70’s. That’s your gen not mine, Toots.)
-Secret bank accounts don’t exist anymore.
Sure they do. Do you think bankers are controlled by politicians, or vice versa? The Big Bankers are a secret, elite group, and they are perfectly content in hiding in the shadows running things while the silly celebrities and politicians take the mockery and ire of the public when their debt driven, bound to explode, interest economy fucks things up.
Meanwhile, they’ll continue to fly in their private jets hopping continents, living their luxurious lifestyles based on fiat currency soon to be replaced by computer bits backed by nothing, which they’ve managed to “convince” almost all the governments across the world with their well placed dictators and/or politicians to use to underhandedly scam real, tangible wealth and natural resources with, no one knowing or even caring about what passport they have because it doesn’t even matter when you control the money supply and most corporations, and thus, the world.
you diaspora jew
protecting your own
go back to bed
you know it all
I see anal in that design
I see anal everywhere
I love lickin ROSEBUD
my damn duty to kiss asshole 24 7
I do see anal in that design so tempting
what lick that scar
mmmm all that scar
Heidi is absolutely right about the branding design. It’s Rainier’s initials made look ambiguous and possibly like Allison Mack’s initials.
If you can have it rain on others, or effect electronics…prove it, KR! We would all believe it then.
Oh, KAR can effect electronics alright, Jarhead. He can and does use the magnificent powers of others’ fortunes to hack computers, make and take cred for devices that go haywire to prove his powers and strike fear in the hearts of any who oppose him in his Vanguardly mission. In Gina’s day, he possessed these Mothman-like powers to avoid driving and account for smoke detectors going off in a haze of marijuana smoke, etc.
vanguard set up all those mysterious ..computers, rain,detector
what a master
Heidi I want more than toe jam..ok me eat toe jam
my girl once spit in my mouth
I kiss her nose deep
force to lick ass
I understand power dynamics
they had hidden talent vanguard secure it
what was inside
freedom to explore
I worship my master
licking ur toe jam
Sad. Lauren’s life could’ve been so much more fulfilling. She’s an attractive girl. But she can move on once she makes things right.
She’s an attractive girl. Mainly in your mind … In addition to being a compulsive liar, it gives off a lot of vanity … Normal for someone who has never worked in his life …
I think Jarhead was being fascitious – if you review his comments in general. Not that Lauren isn’t attractive.
Let me play the Devil’s Advocate.
To what degree should the government protect adults from their own. stupidity?
“Raniere was walking with a female friend and she was not agreeing or understanding Raniere.
It rained on the woman but not on Keith. Only the woman got wet.
Lauren did not take this as a metaphor, but an actual incident.”
In Christianity many people believe that Jesus walked on the waters of the Sea of Galilee.
Or that Jesus turned water into wine.
Or that Jesus could raise the dead.
Is belief in such improbable feats to become a crime?
Is it illegal to proclaim such improbable events as true?
Is Christianity a crime?
As for the nude photos, it might have escaped people’s notice but the internet is filled with photos of consenting adult women either nude or semi-nude.
Women sext their boyfriends or intended boyfriends all of the time.
And at least in terms of these adult women in NXIVM’s higher echelon they all appear to be quite willing to provide nude photos.
“A new study out of Drexel University has found that 88% of the 870 American adults surveyed send saucy texts.
We’re not just talking about a few eggplant emojis being text back and forth here either, the study considered sexting to include sending sexually suggestive photos, photos in underwear, nudes, sexually suggestive texts, or explicit texts propositioning sexual activity.
Interestingly, it’s not just teens and young adults who are sending the nude selfies and explicit messages-the research looked at U.S. adults between the ages of 18 and 82 and found that 82% ‘fessed up to sexting in the last 12 months alone. Yep, that’s eight in 10!”
In fact the late actor Leonard Nimoy published a book called the “Full Body Project” in 2007 featuring photos of full figured women in the nude.
The Full Body Project: Photographs by Leonard Nimoy Hardcover – December 6, 2007
by Leonard Nimoy (Photographer), Anne Wilkes Tucker (Afterword), Natalie Angier (Foreword)
In his provocative new book, photographer and actor Leonard Nimoy captures images of full-bodied women, some of whom are involved in what is known as the “fat acceptance” movement. “The average American woman,” Nimoy writes, “weighs 25 percent more than the models selling the clothes. There is a huge industry built up around selling women ways to get their bodies closer to the fantasy ideal. Pills, diets, surgery, workout programs. . . . The message is ‘You don’t look right. If you buy our product, you can get there.'”
While the NXIVM women look anorexic, Leonard Nimoy’s women look, in some cases, morbidly obese.
Apparently that was Leonard Nimoy’s fetish.
You can get the book from Amazon.
Does publishing pictures of consenting obese women in book form make Leonard Nimoy a criminal?
As for menage a trois, Threesomes are more common than one might think.
Have you ever thought about having a menage a trois? Yeah, that’s you and 64 percent of the population. According to a survey of 274 heterosexuals ages 18 to 24 published in Archives of Sexual Behavior, people-guys especially-are definitely on board with threesomes.
In addition to the 82 percent of men and 31 percent of women interested in hooking up with two people at once, 24 percent of men and eight percent of women say they’ve already done it.
Study: 19% of Americans Have Had a Threesome
According to a new study conducted by DatingAdvice.com, 19 percent of Americans say they’ve had a threesome.
The results show men were more than twice as likely as women to have engaged in a menage a trois, 26 percent compared to 11 percent.
The study found females aged 65 and older to be among the least likely groups to experiment with a third sexual partner, with only 3 percent answering in the affirmative. Women aged 18 to 24 and 35 to 44 were more than four times as likely to have been in a threesome than those 65 and older.
America is no longer the country it was in 1945.
People have far more freedom.
But with freedom comes the need for personal responsibility to protect oneself.
Now I do not like Raniere.
He is rude, crude and a juvenile.
He is a huckster and a con artist.
But these women who followed Raniere so religiously bear some responsibility for using their common sense and protecting themselves from Raniere.
Should the government babysit these women to keep them from acting stupid?
You are leaving out the simple fact that for a lot of these women, they didn’t engage in these activities because they wanted to. They had damning collateral being held over their heads. This is blackmail.
Yes, probably those first 8 were quite into it. I don’t know all of their stories, but definitely, Lauren was a willing participant.
Actually, I’m really disappointed with her testimony– or at least what has been reported about it so far. She’s not really helping the prosecution, from what can see. I hope as she continues they focus more on how she forced and coerced other women. And on more criminal acts.
There is an issue with coercion. Yes, some of this borders into a grey area. Nobody put a gun to anyone’s head, it is true. But these women were coerced. It appears that DOS was sold as a women’s only group; that was a lie. Fraud and deceptive sales practices are in fact illegal.
I think these women exercised poor judgement. Most of them seem to have been downright fools. But fraud is fraud, even when only fools are being defrauded. Blackmail is still blackmail, even when the person being blackmailed is an idiot.
I’m a strong believer in personal responsibility. But I don’t think the weak deserve to be victimized. Taking advantage of people is unethical and yes, it can border into the illegal. In the case of NXIVM and especially DOS I have no doubt that it crossed the line into illegality.
You say yourself that Raniere is a con artist. Running a con is illegal. It’s a racket.
I wasn’t sure what ‘racketeering’ meant exactly, or the legal definition of ‘racket’. I looked it up; it’s broadly defined and the burden of proof is low. NXIVM clearly is not a legitimate business, it was a scam. There’s a pattern of abuse. It was getting payment and ‘services’ under false pretenses and under duress. It fits the legal definition of a criminal racket, and Raniere is a racketeer.
Now, maybe, under a libertarian take, we should be a strictly ‘buyer beware’ society where people aren’t ‘coddled’ and fools deserve to be taken advantage of. That’s not the culture we live in. I think the law ought to protect people from fraudsters, hucksters, and con artists; but it’s immaterial what I or you think the law ought to cover since the fact is current law makes racketeering illegal and that’s that.
I believe firmly in personal responsibility and I also believe in virtue and ethics. I believe society, the law, has a responsibility for ENFORCING ethics on renegades who take advantage of the vulnerable. Rainiere is a criminal, he got caught, prosecuted, and he’s likely going to be convicted and imprisoned for his crimes.
Fat is disgusting
lullulemon wearing fat obese pigs
must go away
hot hot athletes
#cross fit babes
#fateatersLive sick sick
“Lauren said it wasn’t easy keeping their affair secret from her mother.”
Lying can make your nose grow, Lauren. It can also add time to your prison sentence,
After reading Lauren’s testimony I have to admit I do feel some sympathy for her.
I believe that she like Allison Mack should be punished for the crimes she committed.
I doubt Lauren would have ever done anything criminal in her life had she not been introduced to Keith Raniere by her mother.
Lauren by her own testimony wanted to be with a man she attended high school with.
I feel sorry for her, too, on that account – given what Nancy knew about KAR what kind of mother would let her daughters near him let alone swallow his shit for so long. Given what I know Nancy long knew about KAR yet enthusiastically promoted in her own greed and NLP power trip.
But that’s no excuse for Lauren to cover for her mother when the facts show Nancy trafficked her to Keith along with any he desired – not that it was daughter sneaking off with Mommy’s boyfriend or vice-Versa bullshit she’s trying to sell on the stand.
Heidi – Are you saying Lauren is lying on the stand?
When do you think Nancy knew about KAR? To me, this is one of the biggest unanswered questions.
Lately, I don’t believe Allison deserve to be punished…It’s even worse than what I thought and it’s not a fact that she was a victim herself…
The circumstances make it that she (contrary to Lauren) was really forced into this whole crime organization.
Lauren, on the other hand, gladly joined, without much force and was a decision maker (see the previous testimony to see how implicated she and her mother were).
She is trying to play the victim in her testimony but she shows no remorse for the victims…It “me me me”
They are all adults who did criminal things. I don’t see any of them being forced.
” I don’t see any of them being forced”
Tell that to the victim…Genius!
Allison was under the same “force” as the victims themselves.
And some of those considered as victims (and unindicted) have done the SAME crimes as Allison!
So by your (absurd) idea, there are no victims…They weren’t forced! they were adult…
Sometime, you should just learn to restrain yourself from posting scoot.
Her mother knew damn well what was going to happen with her daughter and the smelly one. Nancy saw it too many times before. There was nothing to hide from her.
Can you, Frank, or anyone help with answers to these questions?
We now have it confirmed from Lauren Salzman’s testimony that all eight first-line slaves were branded, because lauren says they had to display their brands when required to pose for nude group photos three times a week. Do we know whether their brands were of Keith’s initials only, unlike the brands we know about which included both Keith’s and Allison’s initials, since they did not report up through Allison? If they did include Keith’s initials only, it is unlikely that any of the slaves would have mistaken the brand for a mystic symbol. But Allison would presumably not have been branded with her own initials. And was their branding done by Dr Roberts, although Dr Roberts was not apparently a first-line slave?
But I just remembered that I read somewhere in the excellent Frank Report that Lauren Salzman was upset when she found out after the event that the branding she had submitted to not only DID include Allison’s initials, but had been applied upside down – intended as appropriately humbling no doubt, but how does that square with the paragraph above?
Also, if Dr Roberts was herself branded, who performed the procedure on her?
Dr. Roberts used a mirror to cauterize herself.
Is FR the only “excellent source” you’ve read where poor “Lauren was upset” over her discovery that Allison’s initials got mixed up in Lauren’s brand?
If you haven’t noticed, FR has long been inhabited by trolls of the accidental and paid variety – and this is not a reflection of the varacity of everything you read on FR any more than any other comment section of any other blog – or anyone on FR’s hidden or not so hidden agenda or of FR’s endorsement of any commentor’s opinions or recollections including my own – which FR claims and has no rights over as far as I know.
I stick to FR mostly bc I know and fear other media sometimes shares my off-the-record statements or information with the likes of Marc Agnifilo that I prefer to go on record with in my own words, rather than have made part of the defense strategy that interprets those and actual events into an interpretation or conclusion that is not my own and substantiates their massive media misinformation efforts.
Probably Mr fright experiment himself.
Of the 8 first line slaves, why were only 2 charged and why aren’t there more articles being written about these other 6? Also some people claimed AM wasn’t branded but from what is written here, it would seem like all of them were indeed branded.
We don’t know as much about the other six and they aren’t celebrities.
“Of the 8 first line slaves, why were only 2 charged”
Some believe that Nicki Clyne secretly cooperated with the government.
Shadow: Is Nicki Clyne very dumb or very devious?
The other five women are Mexican and Mexico won’t extradite them.
You believe that, based on the empty air in your skull…not some!
You point the same BS YOU write every time you can, you are proven to be a fraud so no one (sane) cares about what you say anymore.
It’s so horrible for her. She is 42. He stole her chance to be a mother ever.
Raniere stole more than that from her. He stole her happiness and the chance to have a normal life.
Her mother contributed to keeping her daughter actively involved and under control, instead of encouraging her daughter to pursue her potential, fulfillment, go be in a loving, monogamous relationship with a future to have marriage and with mutual respect, shared dreams and encouragement for individual achievements. I suspect Nancy was money and power hungry caring more about “brand” perception making Keith look powerful and omniscient so she could maintain her position while sacrificing her own daughter to the cult. From all accounts I have read, Nancy is manipulative and morally corrupt. Her motivation was money, power, recognition fully knowing she had to sell Keith and the programs to keep her position. Her only sincerity was to her self serving interests. Not surprised she was the first one to cut a deal. I hope her daughter gets counseling and is able to sever ties from all these people with a clarity she was brainwashed and used by cult leadership, including her own mother, and build a new, healthy, self-respecting life. Clearly, these women lack self-empowerment to believe they are becoming better by participating in this pathetic, pitiful existence. It’s easy to laugh incredulously at their total lack of self-respect and stupidity to be both the oppressed and oppressor until putting into context that this is all very real in current time in the United States of America in the suburbs of the capital or New York State. How does this happen? Why do North American (and Mexican) women hate themselves so much to comply and accept a diminished life instead of one flowing in abundance, opportunity, meaningful productivity, purpose, and creativity?
The only reason I can think of why this was not prosecuted locally is because of political favors and contributions to local, state and national politicians, PAC’s, 501c3’s and 501c6’s.
Nancy thought she was encouraging her daughter to fulfill her potential by taking the courses.
I think you are missing some other points of view about Nancy that have been posted on FR. Nancy was more tricked by Raniere than even Lauren. (But my defense of Nancy stops here. She is not blameless in this fiasco.)
I’m glad Lauren cleared up the misinformation that Nancy “gave” her to Keith when Lauren was a teen. In fact, Lauren testified that she kept her relationship with Keith (that started when Lauren was 24) a secret from Nancy.
stop the nonsense
big girl not responsible
And she stoled even more from the people she “hypnotized”…excuse while i refuse to care for one of the real culprit (her and her mother)
you think child birth a right
indians think the same
she was busy eating camel toe
so stop this nonsense
she eh bloody adult
I want to see KR on the stand and hear him talk about his magic powers, and how he would sacrifice himself by having sex with 20 women, what a prick!!
For the first time since learning about nex – a feeling of pity outweighs my outrage. What all the witnesses have testified thus far paints a picture of a truly miserable existence for any woman ensnared DOS. Keith is a fucking monster – he brutalized every human he came in contact with. We already know this but hearing directly from insiders exactly what their daily lives were like really hits it home in a way that outsider speculation just can’t. I am so sorry that Keith happened.
Well said. Would he have died or been badly crippled at birth, then, most if not all of these people might have gone one to basically normal, possibly boring, lives – maybe to experience the excitement and joy at reading something by a fantastic author or absorbing the beauty of a lovely sunrise, or Mozart concerto. So very sad.
Or having a family of their own. Or finding a way to REALLY improve themselves and the world.
So very sad.
The most idiotically and unimaginably bizarre concoction someone could devise to view and treat others with utter contempt!!!!!
Don’t know whether to laugh or stare blankly in shock!
Things a man best never say to a woman:
“You’re being too emotional”
“How about a threesome with your friend Allison?”
Unless, of course, you’re Keith the Magnificent.
Seriously, what’s wrong with these knuckleheads?
that all of these women went along with this evil man. How could they have ANY self worth after being treated in such a horrific way? And why would they allow themselves to be treated as such? It all just feels incredibly dirty and is really a huge blight on humanity that any of this went on and for decades no less. How did any of them think any of this was self improvement or the ‘ poetry of humanity’ crap. This sordidness of NXIVM disproves the theory of evolution in general, mankind and this world are clearly rotting.
@Mind blowing I fully subscribe!!!!
The women in NXIVM are more the Darwin Award types. What they allowed themselves to get in to with Raniere, actually prevented most of them from ever reproducing.
I suspect that we’ll eventually find that from among the thousands of women who came through NXIVM’s doors, Raniere winnowed out just these few with some particular failings that he knew how to exploit. There’s already some indication that the sort of sense of lack of personal control that manifests itself in eating disorders and anorexia, for instance, may be a common characteristic.
Valid generalizations can’t be made from such an unusual group.
Why did the women stay in Nxivm?
AnoyMaker gives one of the best
summaries of why the women stayed on the pernicious path of NXIVM for so long.
Keith Raniere did not catch every woman he came across in his net…
…. just the most vulnerable and exploitable.
I don’t know. It’s so crazy. I had my own “near NXIVM ” experience years ago– in the form of someone trying to recruit me. And I always think to myself, if I had done one intensive, would I have been pulled in like some of these other women? I was young and very curious at the time about self improvement. But the deterrents for me were a couple of things– one, that it was really expensive, and two, that it seemed weird. There was a dark feeling around it for me. I remember speaking to Barbara Bouchey on the phone and just the way she was trying to convince me made me uneasy. I remember her trying to convince me to put it on a credit card. And my parents had just bailed me out of post college debt on my card. And I didn’t have the heart to charge it up again after they had done that. And I told her that. And then I remember her telling me “Well, there’s good debt, and there’s bad debt..” As if to say NXIVM fell into the latter category. (yikes). And my instincts were– this isn’t a good place. But what really didn’t sell me on it, was when I was introduced to a woman who had just done an intensive. She seemed sad and weak. And I remember thinking– if this is an example of these great teachings, no thanks!! I don’t want whatever she’s been through! She seemed like an empty shell. And sad.
But I can’t help wondering, had I taken that intensive, and had I ever met Raniere, I was young and somewhat impressionable at that time, could I have ended up like Sarah Edmonson? But I can honestly say, I don’t believe I would’ve gotten that far in. He is so totally full of shit, there is just no way. Plus, I have really good instincts and intuition. And I know he tried to train that out of people, but I couldn’t have let that happen. I know I wouldn’t. My intuition and instincts are something I really like about myself. What a crime that he tried to take that away from people and that they went a long with it!
I hope this prosecution team can focus on more criminal acts and drive that in, because it’s clear he’s an asshole, but they need to focus on how he is a criminal and not just a manipulative evil, loathsome prick.
Thank you for sharing that heartfelt anecdote.
I recommend the best seller (soon to be a movie produced and directed by Jeff Apple) entitled “The Gift of Fear.” As the title suggests, the book recounts dozens among hundreds of examples like yours where lives were spared by acting on intuition without a second thought.
One of Nx’s “Rational Inquiry” formulas –
used to quash one’s natural instincts and intuition and rely instead on the superior “logic” KAR alone possesses that inferior beings, females in particular, so sorely lack.
You’ll hear a lot of “use logic” from a dyed in the wool Nxian.
I think the DOJ knows what they’re doing.
Thank you, Mary. I imagine your experience was very similar to most well-adjusted people who crossed paths with NXIVM – they dipped their toe in the water, then pulled their foot away very quickly because something just didn’t feel right. It wouldn’t feel right to anyone who had their wits about themselves and a healthy regard for self-preservation. I believe someone posted here that the overwhelming majority of people who signed up to NXIVM took maybe one or two classes max before getting cold feet and never going back.
Only the very wealthy, the delusional, the insecure and/or damaged (or some combination thereof) stayed – partly because they were more susceptible than most, and partly because Raniere was able to scope them out as susceptible and do a number on them.
Raniere had plenty of help, mostly from other women.
Thanks Heidi! I’ll look at that. “The Gift of Fear” It does fascinate me why some people are less susceptible than others to get hooked into something. It’s funny. I’m also big believer of logic and thinking rationally. But there’s so much that people believed that was completely the opposite!That alone would’ve made me not buy into it. Keith himself seems like a very “disintegrated” person! From what I understand that means, the fact that he had an unreasonable jealous streak, and held people to total double standards, was lazy, and glutinous, couldn’t take any kind of criticism… addicted to sex… and gambling….He was the antithesis of an enlightened person! And he seems incredibly weak as a person.
And Scott Johnson, re; the DOJ, Good! I hope so!
Again thowing stones at the “women” of NXIVM, AnonyMaker? Turn ’em upside down they all look the same, eh?
Hey, maybe you, Scott and Shadow can all put together a calendar “the fuck toys of NXIVM” with Keith’s nudie pics.
Actually, I think Lauren or her Mommy dearest (company Pres.) owns the rights to at least the group shots – the ones taken on official Nx business Lauren would have us believe Nancy knew nada of. There’s probably already a Mexican version.