Charles Manson’s Girl Groupies Don’t Compare with Raniere’s Nxivm Harem

Heidi Hutchinson

By Heidi Hutchinson

This is in response to  Nxivm’s Nicky Clyne Is the Figure Comparable to Manson’s “Squeaky” Fromme

I’ve been biting my tongue since these stories appeared comparing Keith Raniere’s girl groupies to those of Charles Manson.

There’s just no comparison in terms of either crimes DIRECTLY involving any of NXIVM’s more recent recruits who were only briefly based in Albany — such as Nicki Clyne, specifically — or in terms of corporate structure.

NXIVM is foremost a well-financed Ponzi and money-laundering scheme.

Even the means and methods used to entrap “members” are not similar.

Charles Manson did not offer show-biz stardom, fraudulent marriage arrangements to gain U.S. citizenship, female empowerment training, “executive success,” jobs and job placement or customized hypnotherapy and psychology treatments by purported specialists such as “nurse” Nancy Salzman, Dr. Brandon Porter and Dr. Danielle Roberts.

Nor did Manson provide police and political protection from prosecution of crimes committed on behalf of powerful financiers and global leaders.

In fact, the media emphasis on the naughty girls-gone-wild of NXIVM is a distraction that was, IMO, long-calculated and done by design to provide “scapegoats” to take the fall for NXIVM’s true leaders and accomplices.

None of which, however, entirely absolves anyone from any crimes they may have directly participated in, IMO, including libel and slander.

In fact, NXIVM’s media spinners, AKA “The Knife,” [AKA The Knife of Aristotle] libeled my sister, Gina Hutchinson, and the late Pam Cafritz from their graves, claiming early on that they poisoned girls from Libya!

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  • I consider Raniere and Mack to be villains, but they are also ‘fall guys’ for the others like Clare (shudder) Bronfman, and Nancy (gran with a plan) Salzman, who’s crimes were far from trivial. Everybody focusses on Raniere and Mack whilst the others drink iced tea, and think about the white sand beaches they will enjoy when they’ve served their micro-sentences.

    What about that industrial grade money-laundering machine that ran day and night?

    I hope there is some rigorous investigation underway, because there are many more crimes that need to be brought before the courts.

  • Great info, Heidi.
    The Knife said Pam Cafritz poisoned girls from Libya? If that’s true, I bet anything Pam was poisoned by Keith. And if Keith killed Pam, he probably killed everyone else he’s accused of killing.

  • Dumb article for Frank to publish.

    Heidi’s not being logical here and is focusing on the minutiae to distract readers from the bigger picture of the common elements between Raniere and Manson, especially from a psychological perspective.

    1) Manson and Raniere both recruited women followers who WORSHIPED them as a living god.

    Cha-ching.

    2) Manson and Raniere both recruited young followers to have sex with them.

    Cha-ching.

    3) Manson and Raniere both conceived of plans for shaping their own grand vision for the world, while using female followers to assist them.

    Cha-Ching.

    4) Manson and Raniere both hated society’s rules and went about brainwashing followers to resist society, rules, government and culture norms.

    Cha-Ching.

    5) Manson and Raniere both offered female recruits something of perceived value in order to brainwash them. You can’t recruit and brainwash somebody without offering them something of perceived value.

    What they both offered was a ‘sisterhood’ of living outside of the law and outside of society’s norms.

    It was “us against the world”. That’s just cult 101 shit.

    Keith promising stardom to followers is no different than Manson promising his own lies about a better society if they joined him. It’s all the same thing, psychologically.

    These women wanted something better/different for themselves and both Manson & Keith told them whatever they wanted to hear.

    Heidi is pretty much voicing PURE NONSENSE like she always does.

    They both had total control of female followers as well as cuck’d male followers too.

  • Heidi, I have to respectfully disagree. Have you read anything on Manson, like Helter Skelter?

    It’s not NXIVM overall, but Raniere’s harem and DOS, that resembled the Manson “family” and its “girls.”

    In both there was profligate polyamorous sex, used as a means of indoctrination and control; and further efforts to use the tools of Scientology (used by both), hypnosis (integral to Scientology and used by both) and NLP, and psychological conditioning to get followers to the point where they would do anything they were told, including harming others (in DOS, only taken as far as branding).

    The Manson Family was also a criminal enterprise, in its case running a sort of chop shop for stolen cars, and raising money through various other means including illegal drug sales. But it had a claimed greater mission, as well – which a couple of the aging followers apparently still believe in.

    High control groups or cults and their leaders always operate very similarly, exploiting particular aspects of human nature, and differ mostly in outward form.

    • The Cardinal Sin is this type of group is, Resisting, sometimes called ‘over-thinking’ or ‘mind’ or ‘pride.’ Keith really liked to play the ‘pride’ card. Manson was keen on the ‘mind’ card, but really it’s just individuality thats the sin. “Listen to me baby, not your mind. Your mind is the devil.” Allison Mack tried to completely extinguish her own natural reactions to please Raniere, demand, that she damn near succeeded.

      So yeah, there are definitely strong similarities.

      Different terminology, and a variation in strategies, but the objective was the same.

      Here’s a song by Charlie.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1MmHGoKq1Y

      CEASE TO EXIST.

      Pretty girl, pretty pretty girl
      Cease to exist
      Just, come an’ say you love me
      Give up, your world
      Come on you can be

      I’m your kind, oh your kind an’ I can see
      You walk on walk on
      I love you, pretty girl
      My life is yours
      Ah you can have my world

      Never had a lesson, I ever learned
      But I know, we all get our turn
      An’ I love you
      Never learn not to love you

      Submission is a gift
      Go on give it to your brother
      Love and understandin’
      Is for one another

      I’m your kind, I’m your kind
      I’m your brother

      I never had a lesson, I ever learned
      But I know we all, get our turn
      An’ I love you
      Never learn not to love you
      Never learn not to love you
      Never learn not to love you

      • Yep.

        Reading recently about the early days of Rajneesh (AKA Osho, of Oregon infamy) when he ran a manipulative polyamorous scene similar to Raniere, before he became impotent, I was struck at how both fed their own narcissistic self-indulgence by very cunningly accusing their followers of being egoistic and self-centered, and manipulating the guilt over that. Other gurus and groups of course do similar things focused on slightly different areas.

    • I read Helter Skelter eons ago. Motive-wise, wasn’t there a black v. white theme going on with Manson? Or was that the SLA? I’ll have to look it up but I think Manson was having the girls kill high profile, rich, white folk to blame “blackey” or for some crazy “ideal.” You mention a “greater mission.”

      I don’t disagree that there aren’t “cult” similarities and know for a certainty KAR studied, perfected ways to control and manipulate people as they all do but I also know Keith ET AL was foremost a grifter, a conman, interested in amassing wealth and power through thievery and destruction. I don’t think he had a mission, per se. Maybe liberating very young girls prematurely from their humans?

      I just think the comparison is a cheap shot and unjustified, especially in the ways it’s being applied on FR.

      Btw, maybe you know is Susan Atkins related to the Atkins diet inventor at all? Was she from a wealthy family? Was there any similarity there bc NX targeted the wealthiest and most usable power-wise whereas doesn’t seem Manson was on the money.

  • Most of NXIVM victims were useful idiots. NXIVM is the criminal equivalent of The Keystone Cops. Had they not been victims of NXIVM they’d have been victims of another.

  • Heidi,

    I greatly enjoyed your short well written piece.

    I agree Keith Raniere engineered “naughty girls-gone-wild of NXIVM” and the “scapegoat” strategy public relations cover up.

    Allison Mack is a testament to the girls gone wild, scapegoat strategy.

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