By Jim Smith
The issue some of us are having with Barbara is that she is rewriting history – of the facts and of how the things happened.
Barbara can be very kind – and also very stern when you do not agree with her. Right now, she is answering questions and responding to comments that serve her. She is not answering questions that will expose her misinformation.
Barbara started out saying she was the one who brought NXIVM to justice, and got the Eastern District of NY, Department of Justice (EDNY DOJ) involved. Many of us know that Barbara did some footwork. There is a group of us. Barbara was not the sole party that was responsible, as she has been attempting to sell – until she got called on it.
She also did NOT bring the EDNY DOJ into the current investigation.
Was there some good in NXIVM?
Yes, I agree with that, but it is not equal to the damage. If I’m thirsty, water is a good. However, water served is very harmful if it contains unseen shards of glass.
There were many unseen things happening in NXIVM. That was NXIVM.
The damage of the inner-circle criminal organization, the emotional/legal abuse, the fleecing of money, free labor and pyramid payment system NXIVM set up wash away what little good was done.
This doesn’t even get into Keith Alan Raniere’s sexual abuse and the women who supported this by agreeing to be a part of it, making it easier for him to believe it was alright to behave like that.
His inner-circle women supported his sexual patterns by working with each other, supporting the concept that having sex with another woman was no different than playing tennis with another woman and the “you don’t own him,” bullshit.
Manipulating women to have sex with him, saying you’re going to be his monogamous girlfriend – is unseen shards of glass.
Barbara choose not to share this information, but lies about there not being a non-monogamous cell in her body. HELLO! You sleep with a man for years, knowing he has other women and you say you’ve always been a monogamous woman?
Not buying it; it’s denial.
Had Bouchey and/or the leadership made this information about Keith public, people could have had the choice to be involved in an organization that did these behaviors, taken classes, stayed in, and spent years on NXIVM’s stripe path – or left.
If the women believed there was nothing wrong in Keith acting this way, why not be open about it? Did they hide it and wait to brainwash people so they could get them to believe it was OK?
If Barbara didn’t pass this info along to women – who were reacting to finding out about Keith having a stable of women, that included her, she supported it by allowing Keith to get away with it, with her.
Barbara is confused when she thinks NXIVM improved the community.
Name three examples of how, Ms. Bouchey.
I’d like a t-shirt of this illustration. It’s so repugnant. I’m sure Natalie has other juicy pics of Keith in his fur.
Ok, Jim, if you go to the full transcript of Barbara’s and Kristin’s call on this site here is some of the info/facts well reported on this site.
Firstly, the entire conversation is between two “inner circle” people and there is a lot of evidence throughout that Kristin and Barbara didn’t know the information that the other knew when inside the “inner circle” at the same time.
Page 9 – Kristin in her first reponse that regarding the top level executive board none of them knew what the others had done. Barbara said secrecy was the biggest weapon of KAR at the event. None of the board was communicating about NVIVM, I wonder why that was?
Page 30 – Mid page from Kristin and the mouth of KAR, Barbara is never gonna lie.
Page 31 – Just after midway Barbara says she keeps everything honest to God. Is that not lots of evidence?
Page 33 – Barbara didn’t know about alleged wire fraud from Mexico despite being “inner circle”
Page 35 – Ben Myers only knew about a girl being locked up in a room for at least six months but not the whole time. This girl has a crush on him. Was he kept out of the loop?
Page 38 – Barbara’s own employee was holding secret meetings in her office without her. Who made that happen?
Page 40 – Mentions teenage grooming but the answer was with “Marianna not tolerating it”, Kristin stating this info.
Page 42 – Barbara overdrawn to the tune of hundreds of thousands yet she still offers Kristin help to give her cash. This is good intension .
Page 43 – Keylogger is montioned. Barbara in the “inner circle” didn’t know about it.
Page 44 – Barbara asks Kristen if KAR is in a relationship with Clare and she knew nothing about it.
There are mentions throughout this document about taking notes from Barbara. Is this not recording things as they are and creating evidence?
So Jim buy are you not “buying it”?
Lastly this is a message for Sara Bronfman, on page 25 in the middle there is a statement that your sister put herself right smack in the middle of it and the following text, in quotes, is along the lines of “that is the stupidest thing she ever did.” Nope, doing the exact same thing now IS under even worse circumstances.
I hope Barbara rebuts more specifically to all of this.
I, of course, share in some of these same issues with Barb and others, some whose actions or inactions may have even spared Gina’s life — but I’m not without sin and as some say, what’s the use crying over spilled blood?
…I guess I hope to better understand my own choices — some shameful in hindsight —such as failure to promptly report KAR to the police — by understanding theirs if they can answer honestly w/o harm to themselves or others.
Some things — even the why of your own actions — you just can’t honestly answer until you know.
What facts do you need, Scott, you’ve been reading the Frank Report for a while now my man.
Proof is in the pudding, where are Ms. Bouchey’s facts to back up her claims? She has yet to answer any real questions.
As others have pointed out, there’s ALWAYS some measure of ‘goodness’ in just about everything and everybody on Earth.
It’s true that NXIVM probably helped students with improving their self confidence and losing their anxieties, along with helping students to be more self reliant and able to complete tasks better.
I’m sure that NXIVM students were able to lose their ‘shyness’ too, LOL, as one famous person said.
However… Hitler’s SS/Gestapo Training Facilities also instilled those *same* positive attributes within recruits — things such as improved self confidence and a better perception of one’s ‘self’ (which helped recruits to shed their shyness and work better with others). If that weren’t true, the SS and Gestapo would not have flourished during Hitler’s regime.
Hitler himself also did many good deeds for average German citizens before the war.
Not *everything* Hitler did was purely evil, contrary to what many people believe.
Yet that doesn’t mean much.
Fact is, even first time students (attending a NXIVM class for the 1st time) were forced to recite a chant at the end of class —- promising to attempt to recruit new students along with thanking Vanguard and Prefect in sycophant fashion, thus attempting to make them dependent on Vanguard and Prefect for all moral judgements RIGHT FROM DAY #1.
Thus, if brand new recruits were already being brainwashed right from Day #1 —- that means nothing NXIVM did was ‘untainted’ or ‘purely good’.
If even their ‘casual’ class takers were being brainwashed, then NOTHING at NXIVM was ever done for the good of anybody else EXCEPT NXIVM ITSELF.
The small elements of ‘goodness’ that people may have received from taking such classes were just SIDE EFFECTS of the brainwashing process (i.e. if NXIVM can’t point to anything ‘good’ then nobody would have any reason to continue).
I think Barb is taking stock of her entire life (in her advancing age) and simply doesn’t have the courage to admit — to herself — that much of her adult life was WASTED worshipping a pudgy, short and smelly geek.
I think Barb can’t admit THE TRUTH that she spent much of her adult life worshipping a perverted guy that simply couldn’t stop thinking of ways to get his rocks off.
Who wants to admit TO THEMSELVES that their time on planet Earth had almost no positive effect for mankind?
I’ll tell you who DOESN’T want to admit that:
Barb Bouchey. 🙂
She’s not a bad person. She simply lacked the moral backbone (or intelligence) to stop being Keith’s stooge for so many years. I just don’t see her as anything but Keith’s stooge.
And one (only one) example of a good thing about NXIVM is?
I’ll go first in regards to nxivm’s “goodness”
1.A lot of lawyers got rich
2.??? Hell, even I cant think of the second goodness. Barb ,can you help us out on this one?
It gave Barbara a chance to launch her stage career this past week. We see the benefits of her having spent time being coached alongside all of those actors.
Jim, I agree with everything you stated, except for Barb being monogamous. She was. Raniere wasn’t. Also, it would be better to bring some facts to the table to back up your claims.
Scott, REALLY, she participated for years knowingly in a non-monogamous relationship! When a woman says that, she doesn’t allow cheating to happen for years.
How many women make it alright for their husbands to have a stable of women and not be allowed to have a few studs in their pasture?
Only cult followers would put up with such crap.
I agree, cult followers would put up with that crap, and that’s exactly what happened, and apparently not only with Barb. She only got out of NXIVM when it went to Raniere having sex with little girls.
For all\l people who believe that NXIVM had some good let me remind you that:
Mussolini made the trains run on time.
Did that justify all the harm that Mussolini did to Italy?
But to say “Mussolini was horrible. He didn’t even have the trains running on time”, would be weird. It would be like Jim saying “Keith made you drink glass and didn’t even put water in the cup.”
Who said that the good done should justify or somehow “cancel out” the crimes committed? No one ever suggested that.
Some people are just pointing out that organizations like NXIVM (or Scientology or any other cult/scam ) can only manage to attract people if they do have positive qualities, and if they hide the negative aspects.
This is the same thing that all abusive people do. Those who have been in an abusive marriage or relationship understand this concept, and realize how the abusive person was able to attract them by lying and covering up their negative qualities at the beginning of the relationship.
BRAVO! I was thinking the same thing.