[Part 11 of the secretly recorded phone conversation in August 2017 between Toni Zarattini and Emiliano Salinas]
Eniliano Salinas [ES] : There is a [Mexican] criminal investigation for extortion [against NXIVM enemies – reputedly Frank Parlato, Toni Natalie, Catherine Oxenberg, Barbara Bouchey, Susan Dones, Mark Vicente and Sarah Edmondson] and in addition Frank Report reported there is a criminal investigation against Sarah Edmondson for fraud in Vancouver and for stealing our database. When you leave the organization, – with her [Sarah Edmondson] pretending it was a friendly departure – and we thought it was that way. We thought, ‘ok, so if she leaves {NXIVM] , let’s take over the Vancouver Center and see how we can make this a smooth transition. The protocol says, you to return the materials and the information, the database, because the database belongs to, and is owned by ESP.
Toni Zarattini [TZ] : Ok, the database of all the students?
ES: All the students. They [Sarah and her assistant Jen Kobelt] kept the database and started talking to the students in the database to un-enroll them from ESP, and talk shit about it. They then become, at this moment, instruments of extortion. Because in the end that’s what they threatened us with, ‘you do not give me that money and that’s what I’m going to do’. That’s what they’re doing.
TZ: Ok, ok.
ES: So it’s not that we’re stuck in saying that a lot of ESP students left. I understand that. No, there’s a group of people who are conspiring to actively destroy our company. They’re actively destroying our credibility, our reputation, our relationships and there is extortion. Of course, the authorities this because it is not just a threat now. They are fulfilling it.
TZ: Ok.
ES: And it is documented … . When you [Toni] land in [the middle of] all of this – you can understand we were a bit paranoid and defensive. When you say: ‘Emi, right away they take me out of all the chats and they take Marial [Toni’s wife] from the chats.’ It is not that this is exploding in the Frank Report and there is someone who is giving them [Frank Report] information [NXIVM enemies]. I am going to tell you something else and I do not know if it’s true and if it is true then I will also understand what your reasons were, but they told us you had agreed to gather information for them [NXIVM enemies] and in fact you were coming [to Vanguard Week] for that.
TZ: Of course not, Of course not. I do not know why, Emiliano. I lost about 20 thousand dollars, because I did not go to V-Week because they took me out of the chats and I gave up on the organization.
ES: The decision to take you out of the chats came after they told us that you were coming to V-Week and coming as a spy for them.
TZ: This week, Emiliano has been one of the most scummy weeks of my life, Emiliano, because I was talking with a stream of people that were giving out information. But I did not only talk to Sarah [Edmonson] and Nippy [Anthony Ames, Edmondson’s husband]. I spoke to a lot of people who left the organization and are definitely not part of any group. That is, as I talk to you, and if I can understand it, without having this data, [I only understood that] they kicked us out for asking questions, then they shut us up, well it’s like, shit Emi.
ES: Look, of course, I understand you. I want you to know and I hope you believe me, I do not think, I do not believe, that the [NXIVM] intention was to shut you up. Two things that came to my mind. The secrecy and the lies [of the enemies]. We all signed a confidentiality agreement when entering ESP. I do not want to say that it is secret, I mean that there is information that is confidential and we do not want to reveal and therefore this.
TZ: What about the material? How does the material and the EMs and all the modules work and all that?
ES: No, you will understand that the fact that you keep confidential does not mean it is bad.
TZ: Yes, correct, but for me it [the confidentiality agreement] is very different from being told, ‘Do not talk with such person; do not look for information outside; do not do that and do not ask.’ For me that is different Emi. It’s different. You sign a confidentiality agreement because you do not have to go explaining to people how the modules work and how they create the integrations and the content of everything that is said in the courses. But for me, it is very different from ‘do not ask anymore.’ ‘I can’t tell you,’ and ‘do not ask,’ and ‘you have an issue, you have an issue with knowing.’ Or do you disagree?
ES: I do not disagree with you, but I’ll tell you how I understand it. I think it’s going to make sense. If I sign a confidentiality agreement and then you begin to ask me why I have been so many years ago, I know what I can tell you and what I can’t. So I can have a very open conversation with you and know that there are things that I cannot divulge. I cannot reveal but I feel very calm about it. I have been 15 years in ESP and I have been dealing with people who take the course for 15 years and when they are asked about the course, they are paralyzed. They do not know what they can say and can’t say and then at each Intensive [NXIVM courses] I have to explain that it is not that it is secret; it is not that it has anything hidden, but that we are simply trying to protect the tools and the methodology of the information. But I understand when people finish the course and [other people] they ask them what the course is about, and they [the NXIVM students] say, ‘shit, now, what can I say, because I don’t know if anything I say violates the confidentiality contract. I do not know if it violates it, or if it does not violate it,’ so you know what? It’s better you go [to NXIVM High Rank] and find out.
TZ: Yes, I understand.
{What kind of insane organization has people so confused that they don’t know what they can say and can’t say about courses they pay tens of thousands of dollars for? On top of that, Raniere was notorious for not giving students a copy of their confidentiality agreements so they did not even know what they signed and what they were prohibited from talking about. Nice cult.]
The point at the end is interesting: Raniere doesn’t give people copies of what they sign. IANAL, but I think that makes it difficult to hold someone to performance of an agreement, if you collect their signature but they don’t know what they have agreed to do. Scientology also does this with its members. I suspect that this makes a contract unenforceable.
By taking the contract away, Raniere is showing he doesn’t really care about whether people actually comply with the agreement. It’s all about engendering the fear and worry that you’re not and that the mighty Nxivm legal team will come crashing down on you without warning. And then when you discover you have a high level of anxiety about whether you’re behaving ethically, ESP, founded by the world’s most ethical human ever, has a class or two to help you with that.
What a confusing story line.
The confidentially agreement is for NXIVM training materials not NXIVM leaderships behavior.
When introducing NXIVM a lot of things are said about what a Nobel, well educated and humanitarian Raniere is (braf).
Why does Emi think its extortion to disclose the real Raniere to current, ex and potential students?
What has destroyed Raniere all along is his own personal behavior, immorality and criminal acts. He destroyed CBI, National Health Network and now NXIVM.
How about all the personal lives Raniere has destroyed? EMI has it backwards, its Raniere who is extorting others for his own gain.
EMI is the biggest turd in Mexico
The only thing NXIVM’s elite are good at is projecting their crimes and sins on others.
“Raniere and Mack are not extortionists. The branded victim Sarah Edmondson is the extortionist.”
So Jennifer Kobelt who was subjected to an illegal experiment by Dr. Brandon Porter in August 2016 was also assistant to Sarah Edmondson.
“Kobelt said wearing the brain cap was not unusual: She and others had often allowed Porter to monitor their brain activity, usually when they were watching videos of lectures by NXIVM co-founder Keith Raniere.
But the experience last year was very different. The physician was typing notes into a laptop computer as Kobelt watched the first video, a scene from the 1998 drama “American History X” in which a black man is stomped to death by a neo-Nazi.”
“Kobelt said the fictional murder scene was followed by the brutal rape scene from the Jodie Foster film “The Accused,” followed by what appeared to be footage from an actual mass murder: women being decapitated and dismembered, seemingly by members of a drug cartel.
When it was over, Porter recommended that Kobelt — visibly disturbed and distraught — should reach out to a NXIVM associate for an “EM,” an acronym for a practice called “exploration of meaning” in which a higher-ranking NXIVM official queries a subordinate member in one-on-one counseling, sometimes for a fee.
Kobelt said an assistant to Nancy Salzman, a founder and president of NXIVM, had recruited her to take part in the study.
Kobelt said neither the assistant nor Porter told her what the study was for or what to expect. No one had her sign any documents acknowledging she had been informed of the details of the study or its purpose, or that she was consenting to taking part.
Kobelt said Salzman’s assistant told her that she had been instructed to recruit up to 100 women to take part.”
Five months later in January 2017 Sarah Edmondson was invited to join DOS:
“Canadian actress Sarah Edmondson came forward to say that this past January, she was invited to join a secret society within the larger Nxivm group, of which she was already a member. Nxivm member Lauren Salzman allegedly asked Edmondson to hand over material that could be used as “collateral” to keep Edmondson from speaking about the secret sisterhood. Edmondson said she provided a list of past indiscretions and then began an initiation process.
According to the Times, she was called a “slave” during this initiation, had to text her “master” every morning and night, and do as this “master” said; penalties for noncompliance allegedly included fasting and physical punishment. Edmondson said that at the end of this “training,” she and other women were branded with square symbols on their hips in an excruciating ceremony. “A female doctor proceeded to use a cauterizing device to sear a two-inch-square symbol below each woman’s hip, a procedure that took 20 to 30 minutes,” the story reads. “For hours, muffled screams and the smell of burning tissue filled the room.”
And seven months later in August 2017 Toni Zarattini and Emiliano Salinas had a very awkward conversation.
No where is their a contract that say NXIVM owns someone book of business or the students that enroll into courses at other centers. EMI your such a jerk.
Educational materials it says in each student’s contract is theirs to return.
It says nothing about a center returning any materials. Did NXIVM try to collect their centers materials? All 16 days is public domain on the internet
to see this non-existent evidence that anybody asked them for $.