Part 7 of the secretly recorded phone conversation in August 2017 between Toni Zarattini and Emiliano Salinas.
Emiliano now begins to explain why collateral is helpful for women who are starving themselves under Keith Raniere.
Emiliano Salinas [ES:] Well, it interests me [that Toni Zarattini did not see anything bad with NXIVM before he found out about the branding and blackmail/collateral], because… it requires strength to be able to not to contaminate everything [good] from the past, right?
Toni Zarattini [TZ]: Right.
ES: Your perspective of the latest events, not only with ESP, but everywhere. You have a relationship with a person and it is a fantastic relationship and suddenly something makes the person ruin the relationship and that contaminates all our internal representation of the relationship
TZ: Right, I’m trying not to do that because it’s horrible to destroy everything good. I do not want to do that. I’d like to stop doing that.
ES: Well, let me give you my perspective and, if it’s OK with you, to see where our perspectives agree and where they may not agree, and see how we can have a more objective perspective on this issue. My perspective in some ways matches yours and in other ways, it does not. I’m going to tell you where this started for me. About three years ago, a friend in ESP, with whom I shared a lot, enough in the sense that she could see, for example, that I knew she had problems – dysfunctional problems – with her food, right? In other words, I knew her long enough to see that suddenly she was drastically gaining weight suddenly, then losing weight quickly and struggling a lot with that [her weight]. Then suddenly I started to see, and for several months saw, she was stable [remaining super skinny]. It seemed finally she had turned that [weight] issue [of being super thin as Raniere requires] around. Then one day, talking to her, I said, ‘Hey I’m glad to see that you’ve been able to turn around this topic [staying emaciated as Raniere demands] that you’ve struggled with for years.’ We all have issues. You can take [control] and you never see the problem again and other issues, you can get 200 EMs [NXIVM Exploration of Meaning Therapy – cost $100 per session] and the problem is still there, right? It’s our issue. And I knew this was one issue for this woman.
ES: And she told me. ‘the truth is that, yes, there have been several months in which I haven’t broken my word [about not eating too much], in which I have been able to sustain myself in that there is no tantrum that is worth it, no reaction or no anxiety reaction that would make me pounce over the box of cookies as I did before.’
I said, ‘that’s so cool. It gives me great pleasure,’ and she told me, ‘I’m going to tell you what I did, because I think it’s a little radical, but it worked.’
I asked, ‘what did you do?’ She tells me, ‘There came a moment when I hit bottom and said its impossible [to stay emaciated]. There is no way I can hold my word. I cannot believe that with everything I have, with everything I learned [from NXIVM], with what matters to me [staying super skinny]. I mean this is my life and I can’t sustain my word.’ Then she said, ‘what I did was put a consequence [collateral] that would insure that I was not going to break my word. And I started to think, “What could hurt me the most in my life?” And I came to the conclusion that what would hurt me most in life is to cause shame or disgrace to my family and what I decided to do was film myself.’ She made a video that was a sexual video of her with herself [masturbating]. I did not see it, of course, but what she told me is she filmed herself in a video and then she told me, ‘if this came out publicly this would be devastating for my family’ and only to think about it, she would never do anything [like eating cookies] that could make that happen or even take the risk of that happening. When she made the video, she gave it to a friend and told her friend, ‘if I go back to breaking my word about this, [over eating] you have my authorization to upload this video to social networks.’ She said, ‘fuck, I almost died when I did it. I mean I told myself, “no way you just did this,” but I tried everything and nothing worked’. And from that moment she did not break her word again.
ES: That’s something I knew because she told me about it three years ago and-
TZ: Good achievement, dude, is fine –
ES: Good achievement, it’s okay, a bit radical, a bit extreme, but damn I know there are times you can have issues [like wanting to eat normally] and you can’t get over them. I thought it was something good. I thought it was very good. I thought it was fantastic.
We know collateral began long before DOS was created. But if Emi’s time is correct that means the person he is talking about taped her video circa Summer 2014 ish since this conversation took place in August 2017 (Toni and Emi). The framework for DOS was already being laid.
The readiness drills (answering your text in 60 seconds) also seem to have been a part of the programs of SOP and JNESS . One of the other courses was a goals and values lab that Clare credited in preparing her for a half marathon.
IMO the readiness drills, goals, punishment, collateral etc were all to weaponize the flock just to see how far Keith could get them to go. I honestly believe this would ultimately have wound up in some kind of Heavens Gate or Jones town type end game.
“the readiness drills, goals, punishment, collateral etc were all to weaponize the flock just to see how far Keith could get them to go.”
From the literal beginning, this is why Keith wanted to and tried to chase people out of ESP. They’d try to get people to have a problem with stupid things like bowing, chanting the mission statement, colored sashes etc. When a rational person would say something like, “hey coach, I have no problem with bowing and calling Nancy “Prefect”. But if we are trying to sign people up for classes and grow this thing, it makes it tougher sell the course when we do these weird things in front of prospective students on their first day checking us out. Keith would then see that this person wasn’t someone he wanted around. He’d call them a leveler or shifter and try to run them away.
Most people wouldn’t bring up the simple things like bowing, so he’d slowly hit you with more weird stuff and keep testing you. If you eventually bought into his “I know who you were in a past life” B.S., he’d soon drop something even more bizarre on you. He wanted to see how far he could get people to go. Having people do illegal things and unethical things was another way he tested. Everything was “in the name of the mission”. (Keith has always been the ultimate shifter and Luciferian)
He is the definition of a sociopath and has to be stopped. If the Feds let him get away, he will go on to ruin more lives and he certainly will aim to have some type of horrific end game. I don’t see Keith drinking the kool-aid or white milky substance. I see him watching and enjoying as others drink it and suffer. Just as he has with progressing intensity over the last two decades.
Don’t act like a moronic bugger. You wrote a recommendation for the Dalai Lama’s appearance which was tied to Raniere all over the place.
It’s one thing to pretend it is no big deal that you let Sara Bronfman hug all over you while partying on your island when she rented it. Everybody who knows about Necker knows that you do that sort of thing with everyone. Staff provide sexual favours to guests, etc. All in the name of good fun.
To try to pretend you’ve never heard of Raniere is downright stupid, and a blatantly obvious lie, which will only make people question just how close your relationship was.
Should have stuck to just repeating that lots of people rent your island and it doesn’t mean you are associated with them, even though that is also blatantly obviously a lie since you wrote a very specific and clear recommendation for them.
Fantastic to get mainstream media coverage of The Knife. Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!