On April 24, Zoe Marshall released “The Deep Podcast interview with Sarah Edmondson and Anthony “Nippy” Ames.
The show’s description: “Today I’m speaking with two survivors and recruiters of the NXIVM cult. They escaped and shut the whole thing down. NXIVM was positioned as a self-help business with tiers to advance. But there was a cost, and over time there were strategies designed to keep you in. Strategies that were controlling and horrific.”
Anthony ‘Nippy’ Ames
Here are some excerpts:
Zoe: The collateral like fucked me up. Not just that. It was like, give me a photo of your pussy, so in case you leave, we’ll show everyone, not just that. And if we’re not giving context, pause here and watch The Vow.
Sarah: Yeah, watch The Vow. Just for the reference, I did not give it. Well, I did give a full frontal nude. I didn’t give a pussy picture.
Zoe: Pussy pic.
Sarah: But, but, but women did.
Zoe: Some may have.
Sarah: Some did. No, many women did.
Nippy: They absolutely did, yeah.
Zoe: This part of it though, the collateral is already like, this doesn’t come in day one. Like I don’t go self-help like pussy pic. It’s more, it’s an insidious–
Sarah: Yeah. Let me tell you how insidious, especially that collateral had been introduced years before, and should.
Nippy: Can we call it blackmail?
Sarah: Yeah. Blackmail, but yeah. Yeah. So years before this even happened, there was a new program called Human Pain. And it was about building your conscience and learning to love deeper and understanding pain. And love was linked to pain. And it was all this bullshit, that word salad stuff I couldn’t even explain, but part of that was doing penance.
Zoe: Like a 12 step program.
Sarah: Yeah. And I’d never done 12 Step or was religious, so I didn’t have this context. Nor did I really do it that much, although I said I did. But I started to kind of realize that there were things that I liked in the program, and I was gonna do it. And there were other things I didn’t like, and I wasn’t gonna do it, but I kind of went along with it and people thought I was doing it.
But what I did do was put down collateral for things like, there was this one guy who was trying to like, not smoke weed anymore, and he said, ‘if I ever smoke weed again, I’m gonna like shave my head.’ So that was like a penance/a collateral that he had on the line. Like a personal one or like it was almost like a personal punishment. That was okay.
Zoe: So penance is different to collateral, right? Like penance is like an exchange.
Nippy: Penance is a consequence. Like, for instance, if someone had a goal of enrolling someone into an intensive, they had to make, I don’t know, five calls a day. If they didn’t make five calls a day, they would say, you know, here’s $200. If I don’t make five calls a day, you keep the $200. And every time I do it, you keep the $200.
Sarah: So you were giving something to uphold, they called it ‘upholding your word,’ and that made you accountable. So it was like a penance. So it was related as like there was a consequence to the actions, but the consequence had meant you were gonna lose something or somebody would have something that was, would take like, you know, when you have a collateral in your house, right? You’re backing it, you’re backing the, your debt with something. So you had to have something on the line.
Zoe: Exactly. But it came in lots of different forms, right? So it came in financial, it came in, I wanna say like secrets it came in nudes.
Nippy: It didn’t start that way.
Zoe: No. But we have evolved.
Nippy: Or devolved.
Sarah: Well, that’s the thing. By the time DOS was introduced, the women’s group. Um, to like elevate your growth to the next level and be a badass bitch and all this stuff. Giving a picture of your vagina or like, in my case, it was like a cute like ha in the mirror to my best friend [Lauren Salzman], who she was gonna hold this just to make sure I didn’t stray from the plan to keep the secret, was definitely edgy and I was very uncomfortable with it, but it was still sort of normalized, is what I guess my point. Like it wasn’t that off. Everything else we’d been doing, it was built, it was building up to that.
Zoe: Because we will talk about DOS, the female empowerment program, cause it’s so fucked up.
Sarah: But it is, especially that there’s still people vouching for it and thinking it’s helped them. But yeah, go on.
Zoe: There’s the bit, you know, that kind of strays into eating disorder territory. In this, what was it called when you had to like, follow through with all of your jobs for the day? You know, stand for an hour.
Sarah: Your persistency. This is also something that was built building, like when I joined 12 years ago, we committed to, every day we check in with our coach about our persistency. Like, I’m doing Spanish for 10 minutes a day, or I’m doing like 30 minutes of Pilates, or 20 minutes of my taxes. Like some hard thing that you’re building the skill or the muscle of a new–
Zoe: Which seems normal and healthy.
Sarah: Seems normal and great, and people can still do that. But then, but 12 years later, and now you’re checking in about that and a bunch of other things. And then when DOS came around, you had to check in on, um, you had to basically respond to what was called a readiness drill. So they would text, ‘are you ready?’ Is that what you’re talking about?
Sarah: So that this is it again. But by the time that started, it was like next level accountability and at some points it was kind of fun. I gotta tell you, like, to be a part of a team, and like you get a text and you have to find everybody, and like you’d go look for them or, you know, we helped each other out if we were, you know, lost.
Like it built camaraderie and it had all these good things, but it was also really fucking weird, obviously. And in retrospect, it was just a way for Keith to keep tabs on everybody and build discipline and loyalty and being ready to do whatever at a drop of a hat.
Sarah: It wasn’t like, ‘Hey, do you wanna join this group and you’re gonna have Keith Raniere’s initials burnt into your flesh?’ Like it didn’t happen that way. It was intense grooming. And most people know what the term grooming means…
It doesn’t happen overnight. So I think what’s key to know… When she [Lauren] first invited me and asked me to commit [to DOS], I mean my internal alarm bells were totally going off. But you have to understand, like I said, from day one, we’ve been trained to override that.
Sarah: .. I never lied to anybody. I never said, ‘yeah, Keith’s celibate’ and knew that he was fucking everybody. Did I gaslight people? Yes. Cause that’s how I was trained to grow people. Cause that’s how I was grown. And that would sound like, let’s say you were my assistant and you wanted to not work for me over the weekend or something. And I’d say something like, “Well, I guess, you know, if that’s your priority,” you know, like I, it would be like a subtle obligation kind of dig, you know? Does that sound right, Nip?
Nippy: No, I mean, I mean, it was more leveraging their growth over, using their growth to get them to do what you wanted to do.
Sarah: Figure out what’s more important to you, your, you know, comfort and satiation or your growth, and let me know… But no, that’s something I actually worked on with my cult exit therapist cause I was, you know, I knew that I had, I had, I, I, I, it’s hard to even word the, use the word “abusive,” cause there’s, it’s not physical, but definitely like, gaslighting is emotionally abusive and having to come to terms with the system that we are a part of as a victim, but also a perpetrator.
But the thing that always stuck with me and he was like, you have to know in your heart that you, what you thought you were doing was good. And I knew that other people may not see that. I wasn’t doing it to hurt people. I was doing it to keep them on track with what we were building.
It’s for the growth of the person and for the growth of the company. Obviously that’s not true, but in that system it was true. And I know that for me, so it, that’s what I had to like, remember about myself and not beat myself up further which is also part of the system, is that we had to feel like shit about ourselves in order to stay hooked, to keep growing and going and taking classes.
Zoe: Is that true for you too, Nippy? Like, did you feel like you were, uh, abusive in certain contexts?
Nippy: Um, yes, because I think the entire system was abusive and the way, it’s kind of like, you know, the company takes on the personality of its leader. The CEO or a coach takes on the personality of its team. You know, I, if, if your coach is an asshole, the team kind of plays like an asshole. If he’s soft, the team plays soft in my experience. So I kind of felt like those tactics that were used on me, I used as well.
Zoe: Were you a senior [NXIVM leader] as well?
Nippy: Yeah, I mean, I was. I would, I would teach the classes, and I guess, so Sarah was a senior proctor? Is that the name of your title?
Sarah: I was a senior proctor. Yes.
Nippy: I was a proctor. So there was a handful of senior proctors and about 20 proctors, 50 proctors. And the proctors, the proctors, when you’re a proctor–
Sarah: You oversaw the coaches.
Nippy; Yeah, if you’re a proctor, you basically could earn money within the organization, is really what it meant. So you, you could pursue one of the career career paths. And so mine was head trainer, taught the classes and trained the coaches.
Sarah: I just I wanna give an example. Cause I think something that Nippy and I both did, which is I think our most egregious thing is that if somebody were to come to us with like a complaint or a grievance, it would be not, “Wow, thank you.” Like, “That’s really awful.” I mean, sometimes if it, if I felt like I could help them or I could relate, but oftentimes it would be flipped back.
This is is where the gaslighting came in. It’d be like, ‘You seem really upset. I need you to go work on that with your coach or journal on it and figure out what’s going on for you. That you brought that up right now.’
Nippy: Yeah. You, you’d make it, ‘your issue.’ Although I’d say you and I are pretty good with listening to grievances cause a lot of them we agreed with.
Sarah: We were, yeah, we were, we were, we were like the ones people could approach generally. But I’m just saying, I’m trying to look for the, an example of something that would be.
Nippy: Oh yeah. I mean, that’s something that we’ve done the entire organization. It was done to us, but when it was done to us, I would in my head tell the person to go fuck themselves. A lot of times cause I just didn’t agree. But I knew I couldn’t talk. I was talking to a wall.
Sarah: You can’t, you can never have a complaint. Ever.
Nippy: I’ll say this, I, I, I felt shackled within the organization constantly. So being out and being myself, and being able to talk to people and be a little bit, be transparent in the way they want to be, has been liberating and relying on my own faculties, and my own decision-making process has been huge.
I don’t feel like I, leaving the organization was relief. I didn’t it, it’s kind of like leaving a military, like I would probably go in, you know, if I was younger, gone into a military organization, done pretty well, cuz I can just understand the system and learn how to navigate it. It’s kind of what I did with E S P, but I didn’t particularly like it.
So it wasn’t like these tools of gaslighting and being like, it wasn’t like it was particularly fun. It just felt like what we had to do to make that work the same way you go into any system, figure out the parameters and make it work. When I left it, I was like, great, now I can go build something on my own without that shit.
Sarah: And also you could, you could meet people and not have an ulterior motive. Like if I was doing an interview with you, and I met you, I’m like, ‘oh, you’re a mom and you’ve got a young kid, and you’re struggling with certain issues around like safety, you how to raise him, and you’ve, oh, you have anxiety.” [I’d say] ‘Oh my God. I have anxiety. I had anxiety. I had anxiety. Zoe, let me tell you about a five day training that totally transformed my anxiety. It would blow your mind. It’s only two grand. Is it worth two grand? Overcome your anxiety. Of course it is. Totally.” Like right?’ Like that was an easy pitch for me and I felt really good about doing it because I know it had helped me.
Zoe: So you’re like scanning everyone.
Zoe: Scanning always.
Zoe: For a buy-in.
Sarah: Yes. To not have that anymore to free, that is great. I didn’t know how, what a burden it was until I didn’t have it.
Zoe: And then your incomes. How do you guys survive within the cult?
Sarah: Most people didn’t. My case was, was special. I was the golden child. I had an incredible work ethic, a huge network, and I was very determined to make it work. Everybody else that was in my position in terms of I, so I ran a center in Vancouver.
I opened up a center with my own money. Everybody else who did that was independently wealthy, so like the son of a former president…. Um, wealthy people who were, you know, had money to spare. I was not that. I was a starving, oh, not starving. I wasn’t star- never starving. I wasn’t, I was a working actress, living in a basement suite when I started.
So I had this whole like rags to riches story within the company. It was something that was really like, you know, I was, I was the poster child and –.
Zoe: How much were you making at one point?
Sarah: Like at one point, I was making a lot of money at the peak, like anywhere from 10 to 20 grand in a month.
Zoe: And is that just from recruits?
Sarah: Recruits, commissions residual. Like basically once people were taking trainings and continued to take trainings, and sometimes the trainings were very expensive, like $15,000 trainings and I’d get a 10% commission from that.
Zoe: It’s almost like multi-level marketing.
Sarah: Oh, it’s totally multi. It’s multi —
Nippy: It’s not almost, it’s, it’s–
Sarah: Absolutely it is. And they told me that it wasn’t–
Nippy: Which I could never get my head around.
Sarah: And I would have this argument like once a month. I’m like, ‘this is an MLM Like
Nippy: Explain this to me
Sarah: No, no. [NXIVM leaders would say] ‘It’s not an MLM because MLMs are unethical and this is ethical, so therefore it’s not an MLM.’
Zoe: Cause we’re teaching people how to feel good. Yeah. Okay.
Sarah: And, and also, let me just preface as partly for my own defense. I spent four years before they got me to proctor. You can’t earn money until you’re proctor. So they withheld that ability for a long time. And then by the, and then, and then they gave it to me, and I went on.
I was like, it was arbitrary too. Made a lot of money, and then they took it away again. So, there was a time when I was, yes, earning a lot, but also we were flying a lot. We had, we were going back and forth to Albany. My center cost 10 grand a month just to run. So it was like, yes, I was making money, but it was like I wasn’t, yeah,
Zoe: You are a proctor for four years, and many of these people coming up were all those different levels until a lot them never get paid. It’s just this outgoing of funds. Right. So how are all of these people, I think, you know, The Vow shows this being able to survive being community, turn up constantly, visit Albany where the center was based or the headquarters was based, feed themselves. Like how no one gave a fuck. Right. Just gimme your money. You’ll figure it out. No —
Sarah: No, no. There was a couple tiers of people. There was like the super wealthy, like the heiresses that we talked about. And then there was people like myself that were earning, and also when once you became a certain level of leader, you were – and earning money – were also still required to take all the trainings, which you paid for, but then everybody else was staffed it.
So they didn’t necessarily pay five grand for a training, but they had to work the training. So they basically broke a bunch of labor laws, because you didn’t have to pay anyone to run the training, because they were basically saying you don’t have any money. That’s okay. You can take this next $10,000 training if you do the toilet, set up the food, stay after everyone’s gone and vacuum.
And then you also have to do that for two more trainings to pay back the $10,000 training we just gave you.
So why were the top earners of this MLM allowed to keep the money they scammed from 16 THOUSAND victims?
From what I understand Nancy did have to relinquish what she earned. Same should happen with Sarah, Mark, etc.
So you think none of the Nxivm followers were brainwashed/fooled, or just some were?
There’s an article here somewhere about the Tavistok Institute. Have you ever heard of the Tavistok Institute?
A lot of people leave a cult with nothing… no money, no more family, friends… no more youth, no lover, no more friends (You get the point)
Sarah Edmonston and Mark Vicente left with money, a spouse and even a social narrative of being saviors.
I mean, just because we saw them star in a tv show doesn’t mean that there weren’t other people instrumental to the break down of NXIVM. But gladly for them, they are the heroes now. Cause hey, its on tv!
I think it’s time to hear them take responsibility for the hurt they caused also. Sometimes I feel like they took their NXIVM status and recreated the same dynamic outside of the cult but this time, with their savior narrative. As an ex cult member myself who had to rebuild life from ground zero, I am fed up of their savoir/victims narrative.
Some of us have to deal with the post cult shit with no « world fame » and once again, I feel like they are rebuilding for themselves the pedestal they had in the cult.
Why don’t you contact Mark Vicente and Sarah Edmondson directly?
Both are very responsive to fellow ex-cult members. Maybe you could even go on their show? Or Mark Vicente’s podcast and express your feelings directly to them?
It seems like if you’re going to demand that it’s time they take responsibility, it would behoove you to address it directly to them instead of readers on a this blog.
They’re available on social media. Reach out. Good for you for moving on from your cult. There’s lots of resources if money is an issue for you.
Catherine Oxenberg as well as the people you’ve named have all been instrumental in getting people who couldn’t afford it the help they needed.
Best of luck to you
The CBC podcast about NXIVM sums ups very well my perspective about them (in the podcast, it’s Sarah who’s being interviewed). I don’t feel the need to engage with them on a personal level. I have a therapist, I’m fine. And I rarely comment online. But reading that article just opened a big door for me and I felt welcomed to express myself in the comment section reserved for that. Do I have to engage with them on a personal level? Would that benefit me/them? Where would that lead? These are all valid questions for me..
Since they were the top learners of an MLM, what did Nippy and Sarah do with all of the money that they had (unknowingly at the time, but extremely knowingly now) scammed new members out of?
Sarah and Mark were some of the top earners of the company. What did they do with the money once they left???
What’s the value of every year stolen from everyone Nxivm fooled?
Sarah, Nippy, Mark and Bonnie lost years just like everyone else who was fooled. The only ones not fooled are those who created and funded ESP/Nxivm and kept it going on purpose — and aren’t sorry for what they did. Seems some feds maybe kept it going on purpose, too. Tom O’Neill might know more about that if that’s what happened.
Why do you continue to censor comments regarding Nicki Clyne?
Janine Morrison = Nicki Clyne?
Frank, your site is getting really boring you never update the changes in the civil suit, you’re like three reports behind on that matter, including Clyne’s most recent filing
Ironically, allowing for open debate about her could actually benefit Nicki Clyne in the long run. If it’s a protection policy of some sort, it’s backfiring.
At least, just say upfront, that it’s a policy on the Frank Report that you will censor all even slightly critical comments regarding Nicki Clyne, so that people don’t waste their time writing them anymore
Thanks for maybe posting this comment
All of my comments mentioning Nicki Clyne were also censored. Not one of my comments questioning NC’s motives was published. Legitimate questions and observations, but if they were regarding Nicki, they weren’t published.
It’s very annoying.
Especially because Nickii Clyne was always preaching that women (in particular) should be open to honest feedback.
Certainly, you also made responsible comments with legitimate points of discussion and interest.
It’s actually a disservice to Nicki for Frank to coddle her so much, because maybe some of those issues would be addressed and people would achieve greater understanding thus shedding new light more favorably on Nicki.
It also greatly diminishes the Frank Report as the front runner for news on all things Nxivm. And makes it less interesting, vital and vibrant
And what does it say that hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of words at a time are approved as comments that are just basically racist garbage rantings? But asking about updated Court motions is verboten?
There’s a point where you have to decide if you’re a reporter or an advocate or a friend or a lobbyist and just come clean about it.
Any questions/comments I’ve asked re N*i*c*k*i C*l*y*n*e didn’t get published. Legitimate questions and observations about N*C are apparently not allowed since F won’t print them if they are about N#ck# Cl#yn#e.
Where’s all the information stored that was
taken from all those EMs and brainwave records
of all the hoodwinked people
who paid for that ghastly debtor slave “curricula”?
Has anyone interviewed the actors and writers from Smallville to understand Alison Mack’s better ? Sure that NXVIUM tried to recruit others on that show.
Yeah. Laura Vandervoort talked about Mack’s attempt to recruit her on Michael Rosenbaum’s podcast. https://youtu.be/Iny_3TZkv7U
Rosenbaum (Lex) has two podcasts, one specifically related to Smallville, the other not. Over the years it has come out that Mack was recruiting on set. The subject was taboo for years, and the former cast is still pretty circumspect. Rosenbaum has revealed some details, and Erica Durance mentioned Mack’s recruiting efforts.
Nippy is a pansy, pussy little bitch. He is such a douche.
Sarah is an abuser, not a victim. I truly hope she gets sued. I want to see her bankrupted for her evil deeds. Her and that little snake Vicente. I’d love to see someone bash Vicentes face in.
Sarah’s book explains what happened. She, Nippy and Vicente are decent people.
And you’re not even trying. 🤨
I don’t buy any of their bullshit.
pilgrim, are you retardo? you need an em 😉. you seem angry. have you journaled on that?
Have you ever and/or are you now like a frog in cool.. then warm.. then hot.. then burning water?
What part of: twenty-something-year-old gullibility, self-doubt, peer pressure, coercion, behavior modification, hypnosis, calorie/sleep deprivation, neurolinguistic programming, operant conditioning and/or blackmail is “bs”?
Ehhhh… I just don’t buy it. Can I brainwash or NLP myself into eating healthy?
Wow, I guess you didn’t learn anything from the thousands of dollars you spent on the curriculum. You obviously did not learn that it is not Vincente making you angry, it’s YOU “choosing” to be angry. Flunked, didya?
“The golden child”, ” The poster child” for the company. SE Mr Glazier letting his money mouths run wild.
Where did Sarah and Nippy’s money go once they left? Same with Mark.
It depends on who the moved Mark under when Barbara Bouchey left. She enrolled Mark Vincent, who enrolled Sarah Edmondson.
Nancy Salzman knew Barbara Bouchey but could have given that enrollment to her daughter Lauren Salzman.
It was all one big pyramid scheme
“I knew that I had, I had, I, I, I, it’s hard to even word the, use the word “abusive,” cause there’s, it’s not physical, but definitely like, gaslighting is emotionally abusive and having to come to terms with the system that we are a part of as a victim, but also a perpetrator.” SE
With bold bad ass statements like this. How can she sue Nicki?
Because nicki was a top line DOS slave who procured nude pics foR kR. sarah did none of that.
Pretty sure Sarah said in her own book that she had at least 2 slaves, sooo…
Seems like you never met Sarah and you never read her book.
Who needs to meet her when all she does it talk about herself to anyone who will listen? Here’s an excerpt from her book:
“Susanna sent me her full collateral to finalize her commitment, and my eyes went wide at how faithfully she’d embraced the task when I watched just a few seconds of a video where she’d danced naked before the camera. She trusted me.”
So, you never met her?
What’s with your smear campaign?
Why use a paragraph of her book out of context to try to convince others to hate her?
Sarah might have sued Nicki to save her. Sarah said, after she “woke up”, she felt horrible for recruiting Nicki into the cult — and after Sarah woke up, she worked night and day to save her. Maybe ask Nicki what Nicki thinks?
So what doesn’t Sarah drop the suit now that Nicki’s “awake”?
Ask the lawyers.
Money Money 💰
Its the girls best friend.
Oh & Lauren too!
YOU’RE the one who implied the person was lying about Sarah having slaves of her own and that they never read the book, doesn’t seem like a smear when answering you is what happened.
She dropped Nancy, the bleeping president and course content creator from the suit. If she felt so awful , she should have reached out in friendship not pick & choose whose shes gonna sue.
You sue the top brass , thats it!
Her Vicente recruiter warned her the feds were coming.
Sarah’s book seems to say she was twenty-something, impressionable, coerced and fooled. Look at victims of other cults – Scientology, The Mormons, Republicans and Democrats — to see how everyday people get sucked in. The ESP/NXIVM “tech” was psychology of coercion, applied behavioral analysis. NLP, hypnosis, blackmail, peer pressure and who knows what else.
I didn’t ever think “Sarah was lying about having slaves”. She said she did and she said she regrets it. Read her book or listen to the audiobook. Her intent then and now seems clear.
Like so many, I’d like to know why Nancy was dropped from the suit and who decided to do that. The fear factor involved in leaving such a deceitful and deadly organization is very real. Those involved are ruthless. They have no conscience and they don’t think like most people think.
The doublespeak, the self justification, and the mental confusion of these people is amazing.
Edmondson’s self-promotion remains identical to what she was doing in Nxivm. Steer clear of people like this, and never, ever buy what they’re selling.
I stopped listening to her podcast a long time ago, cause the strategies she was using seemed off. Telling people « we love you we adore you » while asking them to give money to her podcast. Using guilt phrasing to convince people to give money « we are doing all of that for free for you, from our home ». No one is asking her to do this podcast, there are cult experts who’s books and podcasts are very efficient. It gives a very selfish vibe. Very self promoting and very annoying. Eventually, Nicki Clyne will start talking and I cannot wait. I am pretty sure that some public ex NXIVM members are afraid of seeing her out now.
With all this said, how is it Sarah Edmondson & Nippy Ames can find them suing people like Nicki Clyne, Sara and Clare Bronfman, and other NXIVM students
Sarah and Nippy seem like they abuser in the same manner, if not worse, as some of the others they are suing.
Sarah has said she had four slaves herself in DOS.
Had Bonnie Piesse not warned her husband Mark Vincent, who warned Sarah and woke up Sarah’s husband Nippy, would Sarah with her super enrollment skills brought more women I to DOS?
This article is a nightmare for Edmond and Ames civil lawsuits.
They have admitted to abuse within NXIVM, and they are suing other NXIVM members for the same thing they just admitted happened because that is the way the company was structured.
Nancy Salzman has already been let go from the civil lawsuit.
Isn’t Clare and Sara Bronfman the same victims of the NXIVM system? Maybe they are just your cash cows so you don’t want to see their abuse.
This lawsuit doesn’t blame the right people. Wasn’t it Keith Raniere and is number one enabler, Nancy Salzman who set up the system and carried it out?
Absolutely mind blowing!
Look at a graph of NXIVM’s executive success.
Which month in which year does the graph line go up like a private jet flys up to the sky?
When are Neil Glazer and his colleagues going to step in and tell these people to shut up? That the more they talk, and the more appearances they make, the more they incriminate themselves, and the more unlikable and unrelatable to a jury they become?
Literally admitting that she thought the curriculum was a scam years before she “blew the whistle.” How many people did she enroll from that point on?
So she admits consenting to giving a nude photo, but somehow she couldn’t consent to receiving a brand, despite having been told about it before she joined DOS?
“When so and so did xyz, it was because they were co-conspirators in a crime racket. But when I did it, which was far more often and where I made far more money, it was because I was trying to help people grow.”
Ok Sarah. Whatever you say.
Once any woman was being blackmailed they could not freely consent to the brand. Or anything else thst they were blackmailed into doing by those who held the “collateral”.
It’s an extremely simple concept.
The brand was intentionally misrepresented as a symbol of the elements instead of Keith’s initials.
DOS was built on a lie. Men were categorically excluded, but Keith was the hidden architect and leader.
It’s impossible to give fully informed consent within those circumstances.
Still defending kid fucker Raniere? Still saying, “IF” Keith raped minors?
This civil lawsuit is SO important to you, Kevin. But yet you claim not to be personally involved? If the latter is true you really should get into some therapy. Take a hard look at your life.
Even Nickii Clyne has renounced Keith Raniere. But you’re still here. Defending women who never asked you to do so and whom also are philosophically very opposed to men coming to their defense like they are helpless princesses.
As a person who’s then both unwanted and (alleged) uninvolved why have you made it your mission then to defend these (few) remaining?
The alarming degree in which Sarah Edmonson lives inside your head and you make it your job to know every single tiny detail of her life versus the fact that Sarah Edmondson doesn’t even know who you or that you even exist is it freaky ass imbalance of Interest.
Seek help. It’s not too late to lose your obsession with a public figure and become interested in your own life and just as passionate about the people you actually know.
Did something I said bother you?
How many women did Sarah bring into the parent organization and into DOS in total and after the period in which she admits she knew it was a scam and scheme? How much money did she continue to make?
What collateral did the people she brought into DOS provide to her? They could consent to giving Sarah collateral, but Sarah couldn’t consent to giving those things to others?
If Raniere raped minors, who is more at fault? A guy posting to a blog who was never involved in this organization in any capacity, who had never heard of the guy before this made the news, or the leader of SOP and his wife who was the company’s top recruiter and salesperson? Who continued to recruit for his company for years after child sexual assault allegations were made public? Who removed two of the biggest abusers in the company from the civil suit because they are her friends?
Are you going to virtue signal about child abuse and then give a pass to Sarah for removing the two defendants who participated in this abuse? Are you that much of a hypocrite, or just stupid?
His other supporters are held to this standard, but Sarah isn’t, despite having held a higher position in the company. Why is that?
This woman has attacked anyone and everyone who has been associated with this company for five years, regardless of their level of involvement, suing them into bankruptcy, while exempting herself and her friends from any criticism or consequences, despite all having played much bigger roles. But in that tiny head of yours, you think she’s off limits for criticism?
Whatever. How about we put her on the stand and see how a jury of people who actually work for a living react to her entitlement, privilege, and self-righteous behavior?
Carnies are going to carny. But enough of us see through it.
You don’t bother me, stalker.
Answer your own queries.
Other than that tldr
I do bother you. A lot. For people who’ve been throwing punches around for five years without once considering how they might affect others, you sure can’t take them.
Maybe instead of doing podcasts, or selectively editing footage to make recorded conversations appear as if they’re happening in real time, without the other party’s knowledge or consent, Sarah and friends might want to sit down with their attorney and attempt to answer the questions that you, and likely her, have no answer to.
She doesn’t answer to me. But she will have to answer to a jury. There’s no Fifth Amendment protection for a lead plaintiff in a billion dollar civil suit.
Who thinks Kevin is Marc Elliot?
This bi atch had 4, FOUR, 1V SLAVES? Holy Shit!
Danielle Roberts had zero, None, nada, zip
This is truly painful.
And says she knew it was a scam way before, I knew there was an instinctual reason I didn’t like her. !
And she did EM’s?
And best friends with Presidents daughter?
So, in reality, I am an actress, I acted the part, got wealthy, never was seeking a spiritual journey, just money & fame.
Well, You got it, Ms. E
Raniere & Nancy = G.U.I.L.T.Y.
There’s a gulf of difference, Kevin, between admitting the program was a scam and carrying out, or willfully facilitating, criminal activity. Sarah could not have consented to getting the brand because she was lied to about its nature and how it was to be done. She had already provided collateral before joining DOS. She was not told about the brand until after she had joined.
When Sarah found out what was really going on (the sex trafficking), she closed down her centre. That cost her a lot of dosh. She tried to contact as many people as she could to tell them to get the hell out. She worked as part of a team with Frank, Catherine, Mark, Nippy and Bonnie to close down the disgusting enterprise at great personal risk to herself. She knew how defectors were dealt with.
That’s what the jury will find out. That’s what some of them probably already know from the ‘show’.
Try being brainwashed, Kevin. Then fooled, humiliated, deceived and blackmailed. Walk a mile in their shoes and tell us how it goes.
Which of the women that Sarah is suing is responsible for fooling, humiliating, deceiving and blackmailing her?
I’d say, Nancy Saltzman but wait she was dropped even after grooming Camilla.
I commend Sarah for being so candid about what she did. God bless Sarah Edmondson!!!
I totally agree.
Why did the DOJ let Keith, Nancy, Clare and Sara do what they did for 20 years — and then take so long after so many told the DOJ what was going on? Reminds me of when Cindy McCain said, “everyone knew what Epstein was doing and did nothing” and when Alex Acosta said no one could touch Epstein because he was “Intelligence”.
Anyone know if Keith, Nancy, Clare and Sara blackmailed anyone besides the “DOS” slaves — or was that going to be next?
Were the men in ESP/NXIVM blackmailed too or just the women?
I heard the podcast and Zoe is a pretty serious interview. She lets her guests speak and Sarah and her husband explain a lot.
The men of Nxivm are super hot. Nippy is dreamy and so super cop confident.
So are the women. Really need a “women of NXVIM” Calendar or something. Sarah is a hottie too. Imagine Sarah, India, Nicki, Allison, and others in a nude calendar. I’m sure the pics are somewhere to get this put together. Someone needs to make this happen!
Lonely guy, in need of a real life. 🙄
That host seems like a dummy. She didn’t know what penance means? And “gee whiz that almost sounds like an MLM!” and so on.
8:48 … Look up “operant conditioning”.
It’s also something given up or an agreement to do a nice deed for someone else when spoke in the confessional with a priest of the Catholic Church., and has been for centuries.
I’m sorry, it’s hard to read this because their constantly using the word, like. Did anyone say anything of meaning in this article?
Like, why do you care?
Agreed. More likes than Twitter.