Ever seen the Monty Python parrot sketch, Kevin?
Are you implying that ‘adults’ are in some way immune from getting manipulated and ripped off? FFS, the Donald got 74 million votes in 2020!
Rock sees similarities between the Vanguard and the Maga President
How many people get repeatedly burned every year in dodgy investments? The super rich, i.e. the Bromfman sisters, get richer every year by doing nothing. You gotta have a goose to get a goose, and those two were born with large silver spoons stuck up their asses.
The rest of us have to do 2+ jobs a day to EITHER eat or heat – most can’t afford to do both. That wealth gap just keeps getting bigger, baby.
So you figure Mark and Sarah made around $3M over 10 years? Ever see their tax returns? I’m guessing they actually paid taxes unlike some.
The only person responsible for Keith’s claims is Keith: the noun/verb is performative!
Even Suneel said those claims on his online CV were pretty much all BS.
How the hell can someone with a 240 IQ just about scrape a pass grade in a primary degree? LOL
That’s not to say he was without ability. His genius was screwing other people in more than one sense of the word, and in that he was supremely gifted. Psychopaths have no feeling or conscience, and unlike sociopathy, that’s the way they’re born. The proof of that pudding is that it’s genetic and you can test for it. All you need is a single hair follicle, and god knows, he certainly has plenty of those covering his bloated torso.
The DOJ chose this photo to show jurors for reasons unclear.
See, the people who brought people in were not Mark and Sarah. They were just employees/minions/skivvies however much money they made.
The people who brought EVERYONE in were Raniere and those who financially backed him. That’s where the buck stops IMHO.
I’m not sure about the wisdom of putting the others on the Defendants’ list other than for specific and limited instances of knowingly causing harm to others in given situations. It could be argued they were acting under duress.
Of course, there’s no denying litigation is about money. But it’s not JUST ABOUT money. It’s also, like all law, about getting to the TRUTH, and giving people who never got their chance to give testimony a public forum in which to do that.
And if the Court deems that wrong has been done to them, they are of course entitled to compensation under the law.
Kevin replied to Rock
I took a handful of classes in college that I didn’t find valuable or helpful to my education. Am I a victim? Am I entitled to restitution?
In this convoluted NXIVM civil litigation scenario, the college advisor who convinced me to take the classes would be suing me. And I would have to find a way to defend myself for what the advisor did to me.
Do you see it yet, Rock? In your analogy, where you see this as a scam investment, it’s the people who sold the investment, Sarah and Mark, who are suing their clients. You don’t see how batshit crazy that is?
Keith Raniere’s followers chose to dance outside his jail cell at Brooklyn MDC.
I’m not asking you to dance outside a jail for Keith or give this group your life savings. I’m asking you to consider that maybe Sarah and Mark aren’t such nice people, and maybe Danielle and some of her co-defendants aren’t such bad people.
As far as your wealth gap rant, OK. I make contracts for a living, so I’m not sure how you want me to help with that. That might be something you want to talk to your Member of Congress about. I’m sure they’ll get right on it, especially if they’re reelected…
Oh Kevin.. Are you still bleating?. Look up coercive control, narcissism, psychopathy. Get help for yourself. You seem to work so hard to convince us all that it was all ok. Why? I have no problem with Nicki et al dancing and following KAR so long as they( and you) leave the rest of us alone and don’t try to drag anyone else into this idiocy.
Mr. Allen Stansfield is currently doing restaurant reviews:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clo-iHEp6NC/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
I like Alanzo with a mustache!
Kevin. It was always OZ. Keith was fondling underaged kids behind the curtain. First Bonnie, then Mark, then Sarah managed to glimpse behind the curtain. You understand that analogy don’t you? And when they saw it, everything changed.
Some people are really adept at fooling you.
But the one person who shouldn’t even attempt to fool you, is yourself.
To all the deluded dancers. To the Suneels, Kevin’s, Nicki’s, the Doctor who branded those women. To Michele who allowed a white man to subjugate her and a white woman to burn a brand into her skin, I hope your search is more successfully next time. To all who support Keith and Claire. I hope, I really hope, that reason kicks in to you soon. And that you can make great lives for yourselves and learn to navigate, and to love and be loved. Leave Keith to his responsibilities and his own personal atonement. Go live your lives. Be better human beings than you have been. Do no harm.
I’m not the one who needs to be a better human being. I didn’t recruit people into this company for over a decade, make millions of dollars from it, and then sue the people I recruited.
If he touched kids, why wasn’t it reported? And who knew, and failed to report it?
Kevin-
Are you alluding to Scott Johnson the sometimes commenter and Amway salesmen who made a few million scamming people?
Scott is a scum!
Thank you for speaking up!
Raped. Raped kids.
As a parent of a daughter that is about the same age as Nicki, Danielle, Allison, and many of the others, I am grieved for these girls (I use the term girls because I am old enough to be their Mom). Their acceptance of such poor treatment as being “enlightened, free, edgy, most creative and special” is such a sad convincing of self to accept nearly nothing and poor treatment and abuse as “caring” and “female empowerment” is heartbreaking. To believe feeling pain is the ultimate proof of love is being sold broken glass as diamonds.
I know how difficult it is to lose the first community/group where you feel accepted, loved, a part of a worthwhile group. To feel you are growing and becoming more is all wonderful. However, it also puts you at your most vulnerable to take it all in as being as perfect as you hope. Sadly, Utopia on earth does not exist. It is horribly hard to look at it honestly and see the truth. When you can see past the love bombing and acceptance to the truth of manipulation, accepting scraps as more than enough is very painful. When you feel the more you sacrifice, the more you are getting closer to what they want you to be and have convinced you that you need to be … it is horrifying to realize the truth of what you thought was true life. It was actually just depleting you for someone else’s gain that did not truly care for your welfare.
Love is not proven by experiencing pain. It does not put itself first … as Keith apparently did. Love is not a one way street. It is not claiming superiority over anyone. Love has nothing to do with IQ or being the “one” to have the “special baby”. Love does not ask you to keep your relationship secret, or to harm someone else by withholding truth or lying to prove loyalty to anyone. Love does not ask you to lie to your friends to protect them. Love asks you to fill your life and find love if that person is not available that you have been with, or are waiting for. True love does not ask you to do, or sacrifice, what they are not willing to do, or sacrifice themself.
As a parent I want to run to these young women and hug them and have them truly understand empowerment and real love. They have been sold a very poor representation of love, empowerment, integrity, etc.
I would also want to tell them to examine their errors. This is not to feel condemnation, but rather admit mistakes that we all make in life. We all make mistakes and we should admit when we do and ask forgiveness. That is the reason some have been dropped as defendants of the legal action. Their admissions and apologies must have been received as being sincere. This is the decent and human thing to do when we make an error in judgment and action.
My entire career has been as a medical professional. I cannot imagine being willing to “brand” others with a surgical tool meant to stop bleeding and actually “causing harm” to healthy tissue. I cannot imagine performing any procedure without informed consent. I cannot imagine undertaking any patient studies or new treatments without the review and approval of an Institutional Review Board and having a precise and approved study protocol. I cannot imagine claiming any successful treatment of any illness or condition without peer reviewed results and reproducible results from several other studies and institutions. I cannot imagine setting up “brandings” in a bedroom or “studies” in a conference room without IRB approval and oversight. Obviously, neither Dr. Roberts nor Dr. Porter have participated in any approved clinical trials or had understanding of appropriate informed consent before performing testing or medical procedures. For a lay person to try tackling these issues would have been more understandable than to have licensed medical professionals thinking either of these pursuits were in any way sound medical judgment or appropriate. I can only believe that their critical thinking skills had been compromised somehow and that physicians were highly recruited and needed for the group. EMs may have produced these results of poor judgment? The course materials were likely an influence too.
I would wish many to be there to encourage these girls that they are worth so much more than they have bought into. They have no need to keep sacrificing to “be the most loyal” for a person that likely has never truly cared for anyone other than himself. Allowing the truth to reach your mind and heart is very painful and difficult, but so many will be there to support you as you find your way to freedom and a fulfilling life.
I would hope that each of them could recognize that not only they have experienced great pain and loss, but they levied it out to others too, in trying to save what they believed to be worth saving. What they have hoped to save is what has lied to each of them and cost them the very most.
I want their parents to run to their daughters and to hold them and help them through this! I hope someone comes to them and is the steady source of truth and encouragement to help them find their way back to themselves, their hearts, their sound thoughts, and to offering apologies and accepting apologies.
As a parent, as a spouse of over 43 wonderful years, as a survivor of a very difficult early life, I send each of them hugs, hope, strength, and prayers for true love and healing and finding their real intended place in life. I wish them forgiveness, admissions of wrongdoing where needed, I wish them love and happiness and to see truth.
.
Dr Anthony Fauci funds ( with our tax dollars) a pandemic in a foreign country and Shuts down the world for two years and is giving a golden Parachute retirement But no one in gov’t could help this wonderful young lady., I can see why she might be skeptical of gov’t help!?
Thanks ShadowState!
Mentioning Fauci Cabal is so germane to what SH said.
Instead Shadow you should care about the cops finding the taxidermic ***** in your tree house.
Some of the information about Lauren releasing the branding video to Mexico is shocking. More shocking is Sarah’s need to forgive Lauren. She talks about it now constantly on her podcasts or ones she is a guest on. She (Sarah) believes Lauren has truly renounced KR and his teachings. It sounds like Sarah is getting lawyers involved so she can arrange to see Lauren again. Remarkable. One has to wonder if Lauren is doubling down on her act and continuing the coerciveness towards Sarah?.
More concerning is the idea that people should be judged based on who they associate with, or what they believe, and not judged based on what they actually did (or didn’t do), their level of involvement.
So if I volunteer to feed the homeless but don’t vote a certain way, I’m bad. But if I burn the homeless shelter to the ground, but did vote the same way, I’m good.
The removal of the Salzmans from the lawsuit calls into question Sarah’s motives and state of mind. Not to mention that every other plaintiff is fucked when the judge takes this 280-page monstrosity and wipes his ass with it.
Putting your former friends in the lawsuit and categorizing them in the same way as this man who you believe is a monster takes away from the seriousness of what you’re trying to get across.
“The man who you believe is a monster”
Kevin you are so transparently a Vanguard Super Fan. A jury of his peers found him guilty after a very lengthy trial. It’s not a matter of opinion anymore if Keith is a criminal monster it is a matter of court record. Only a completely deluded person would be unable to see that reality.
Edmondson and Vicente are FILTHY in this. They should be in jail just like Raniere: for life! They knew exactly what they were doing when they lured new recruits into the Cult. Two demonic, soulless predators. Fuck “Nippy” too…
But I do not think that without their whistle blowing it would be hard to have taken Nxivm down.
True. But at very least they should not be seen as heroes. No one consider Henry Hill a hero. He is seen as a dirt bag, who snitched and took down some major mafia players. Same rules should apply here.
SH above ~
Hear Ye! Hear Ye !
It was your heroine ( Sarah) giving those EM’s along with Nancy Saltzman ( also forgiven) ugh.
You gonna be there for the girls?
Like Frank was?
Like Moira was ?
Like the OPMC was ?
So many better ways they could have offered to help THEY DIDN’T
They threatened, they never extended any True Help.
These girls have been HONEST with their experience while the players played them !
Sometimes it takes MORE than a hug and here’s a form to fill out and see if we can get you subsidized housing when your in the middle of a tornado.
All that could have been offered to both Drs. , as a 6 month suspension, while we set you up to take classes that speaks to these issues.
The separation and retraining ( perhaps even together ) to ease the pain of community loss., fear, lack of employment, retaliation etc.
After all THEY weren’t aware they were being set up by BOTH sides.
The player side & the perpetrator side. And they were working folk not a royalties daughter so YOU gonna help them ?
What specifically are you going to do for them?
I know hugs are nice 👌
Wow! What an angry reply. I would offer to help them with anything I could. If it makes you feel better to be angry and assign blame, it may not always create a positive result for you, but I do understand feeling like you are falling without a net.
I do not speak for the legal system, attorneys, any form of government.
I am speaking solely as a female, a wife, a Mom and grandmother. I am speaking as a person that has survived an extremely difficult childhood and early adulthood.
I hope they have strong and loving family running to them, but if they are like me, there were none. In that situation I hope that honest and true friends show up for them. Test these friends for honesty, sound knowledge of right and wrong, and simple, honest motives of help and friendship only. I hope they can connect with well-trained and compassionate trauma counselors.
I believe many are willing to help them all rebuild their hearts and hopes with no hidden motives. I do understand it is not easy to trust to reach out at all at this point. But, I hope they can and do.
I am willing to help however I can. I hope they can reach out to connect.
How do you assume that I have chosen a heroine? I haven’t. I see that everyone was damaged severely by what they were taught and by undergoing “EMs”. I do believe whatever state, or states, Nancy Salzman was licensed in as a nurse should review her licensure. Professionals in mental health should look at the practice of EMs (by both a licensed person and those without any licensure), to see what needs to be a support protocol of treatment to help those that underwent this process. Those that delivered EMs have hopefully been instructed of the dangers of doing this process and to never do this again.
I was not suggesting that merely a hug could fix anything. If you could point me to a place to help pay for therapy, new education opportunities, and basic living expenses while receiving education or therapy, I would be glad to donate.
I do not live near either coast, so I don’t think I am close enough to offer direct physical help. If someone was nearby, I would be helping however possible.
Why was there only one black person in NXIVM?
They were all happy to end slavery.
Common sense? I’m damn well no liberal, but you have to admit the purported solution that nexivm offered was to the problems of the more affluent.
There’s no need to admit it, it was by design. keith said that the majority of wealth and power should belong to the affluent, or something like that, I don’t really know exactly and don’t care. So they targeted those types and FWIU it was supposed to be like a trickle down type of thing to change the world. And also it’s because keith figured that rich pussy was the best kind of pussy.
As a black woman, I was laughing so hard when she was like, when Allison Mack described DOS to me, I knew there were going to be some “dope ass sisters involved.” I was like, by this documentary, you’re the only black person in Albany.
I’m betting the handful of classes you took in college didn’t cost $5-10,000, go for 5 days x 16 hours driving any sane person demented, and comprise material suggesting sex with minors was acceptable behavior. I’m also guessing it wasn’t a prerequisite to have sex with the college dean if you were a looker, or that the college dean was a dark empath?
In fairness the “college advisor” you allude to has admitted their errors – they’ve owned it, and that’s important both for them and their victims.
After reading through the court transcript yesterday, I think there’s a fair chance that the suit against some defendants (you know who I mean) may well be dismissed: the prosecution’s case lacked proper focus and was quite literally all over the place.
NXIVM was a scam investment, Kevin, and deep down I think you’re beginning to realize that. What’s batshit crazy is pretending it was anything other after all this time.
Raniere used to spurt a rip-off version of Nietzsche’s vision of Hell (Love of Fate). You might remember the one – on the day you die you meet the person you could have been? Let’s just invert that a little: how about Nicki stumbling out of a club in Vancouver 20 years ago feeling on top of the world, then suddenly being confronted with the horror of her current predicament? Think she might still have gone ahead and signed up with Sarah?
I don’t know Sarah and Mark, but I do think they did the right thing, even if it may have been for the wrong reasons. Similarly, I’m not saying Danielle and co bear the sign of the beast, but I do think they were and are misguided at best.
Sorry for the wealth gap rant, but it’s true, and if you believe in people and fair play, it’s something we all need to address – so don’t be so cynical 😊!
And, Kevin, to pretend you’re not Nicki is like the guy in the parrot sketch pretending the parrot’s not dead!
I wouldn’t know if NXIVM/ESP was a scam investment. I never took a course, and I’m very frugal with money.
My job with Warner Bros had a program that helped pay for college. A kind-hearted, considerate, compassionate member of the cast took the time to show me how it worked, how to apply for it, and encouraged me to advocate for myself and be the best version of myself. That I was worthy of an education and deserving of a good job. That bad experiences that I had in school that led to me working full time to get out of school shouldn’t sour me on education, that lots of people who work in the entertainment industry struggled with school, and that there are different kinds of programs that are tailored to different learning styles.
She did lots of good deeds for lots of people in the decade she was there, and I hope those people give more weight to those experiences than the horrible things people have accused her of.
None of what I say is in defense of Keith or the company officers, because I don’t know them. If they hurt people, I wouldn’t like them. What do many can’t see, or won’t see, is that the students who got something from these courses aren’t Keith.
Knowing what I know, I’ll bet every penny I have that she’s using her time to provide education and training to other inmates, making their lives richer and making them aware of opportunities that they otherwise wouldn’t know about.
And I bet that when she gets out, she will move on from this and find peace and happiness in her life, no matter what people who knows nothing about her say about her.
Wtf are you talking about? Everything you say is in defense of Keith.. None of it varies from the loyalist point of view. Yeah once in awhile you try to throw something in to prove it’s different. But it’s not. You start by pretending to just care about Danielle Roberts not being dragged in the court of public opinion. But it always leads back to your Vanguard being framed. And alleged FBI tampering. It’s obvious that you think you’re really smart. Constantly telling the other commenters that they need to really think as if they’re not already thinking. That they need to be open-minded. That they need to think for themselves. Because only you are a true thinker. LOL Your arrogance is disgusting and unwarranted.
Frank – You may be interested in this. https://www.wonderwall.com/news/exclusive-women-of-nxivm-sex-cult-denounce-the-vow-reject-victim-label-nicki-clyne-angelica-hinoj-linda-chung-702509.article
Time and again, you have shown you find the darndest stories and share them with readers. Thanks.
A) they are not all highly educated – as stated
B) they claim to be victims when nxivm claims, “there are no ultimate victims ”
C) Nicki only owns 1 outfit. Peach clown pants.
D) the dead-enders leave out; lying about their cult leader and lover running the slave ring, blackmail, paddling each other naked for punishment as the cult leader watches remotely hidden as the creator of the slave group, making false claims of incest, domestic violence and criminal activity about family, pornography created just for Keith, sex assignments, building a basement dungeon complete with a cage, dog collars and butt plugs. Everyone growing out their pubes for Keith, starvation, being estranged from family, sleep deprivation and the DOS handbook laying out how to get free labor thru blackmail and coercion. And ultimately that the entire DOS premise was built on lies from the start. Intentionally.
E) Keith is a child pornographer and pedophile.
Sounds a lot like Woodstock to me
Thanks for the link. Great find!
What strikes me is that everytime these Dossierproject woman talk about their experiences in DOS, is the complete inability to address the terrible things that happened in DOS to some women. They keep talking how DOS helped them personally to “grow”. They don’t discuss the bad things that happened. They don’t show any empathy for the women that suffered terribly in DOS.
Hammer on the nail Stephen – they’ve been stripped of their empathy, even though they might come across as superficially charming if you met them at a party. And that’s why none of them have specific opinions on any of the issues of our time. They just can’t see that they were victims too, so weirdly empathy is something they don’t even have for themselves.
Great catch Pyriel!
Kevin claims that he/she/it is not a member of NXIVM.
Yet Kevin defends Nicki Clyne, Danielle Roberts, Brandon Porter and Allison Mack.
Something does not add up here.
Is NXIVM also known as Clown World?
According to sources in Mexico, Lauren Salzman edited and released the branding video to Televisa.
THATS ALL FOLKS
Lauren AGAIN, Mike drop!!
Didn’t Sarah accuse the so called deadenders of releasing said video?
Shes a dog groomer, alright!
Why do you believe any reader of this blog should be answering any, let alone EVERY, one of your repetitve, tedious (often already answered multiple times) questions like we are all your DOS slaves?
Answer them yourself if they are sincere questions. Do your own work.
Frank Report readers aren’t the lawyers or the plaintiffs. This case is or is not going to be heard in court.
We aren’t any part of it. And allegedly neither are you, “Kevin”.
The civil case nor the criminal case will be litigated or re litigated on a blog. Or twitter. Or reddit.
It would actually be healthier if you were directly involved in the criminal cult. Your obsession with Sarah Edmondson that extends to her children is disturbing. And worrisome. Do yourself a favor and seek help.
I’m not asking you or anyone else to do any work. I ask questions and raise points to encourage people to think for themselves. To consider that this is not a movie or a television show or entertainment, but real people’s lives.
I’m not obsessed with Sarah. I just think she’s a really bad person. My point was that if this company was everything she said it was, and with her participating the way she did, who is she to say that others are unsafe to be around, when the same could be said about her?
When you talk about Allison, Danielle, or Nicki, it was a “sex cult.” When you talk about Sarah or Mark, it somehow wasn’t. That’s what I was pointing out.
Incorrect. The entire organization was to promote and Achieve Keith’s ultimate goal of coercion and enslavement of women. You cannot just blanket speak for everybody as if it’s fact. As much as you think you have a nuanced and unique take on things other people feel the same way. It’s so obvious that you believe that you are superior in thinking over other humans in your refusal to believe that they could have come up with their own specific take on the available ESP and dos information. It’s not that people either believe your way or the way that you’ve decided they believe. Because both of those are still your take on things . People have their own opinions independent of you . Your cult has disabled your ability to see things clearly. The US versus them mentality makes you blind even to those who agree with you on certain points.
we [Frank Readers] arent any part of it – so true, but we are the court of public opinion and Kevin seems like a ‘perception is everything’ kind of [spirit] – and Truth gets in the way of that kind of thinking, really, truth can be such a nuisance when your doing all you can to finesse it!
Can we speak more about Lauren being the one that edited and released Sarah’s branding video? This is the first time I have heard this.
Keith gave Lauren the assignment, and the story is muddled.
The supposed Raniere theory for its release was to show that the branding was not what Sarah described. She was not crying, and it did not last hours.
But who knows, with Keith, it may have been his revenge too.
Lauren blurred out the private areas of the women. I have seen the blurred video. It was used as evidence in Dr. Roberts license revocation hearing. I understand it was Lauren possibly through one of the Mexican contacts who gave it to Telivisa. I spoke to Telivisa execs about it.
And Nicki. The editing and release of Sarah’s nude blackmail was a combined effort of Lauren and Nicki Clyne.
Was Nicki Clyne not involved in editing Sarah Edmondson’s branding video? Lauren Salzman’s testimony suggested that she was.
I rather suspect they did it together. But Lauren seems to have taken charge, and I guess according to DOS protocol it was hers to do insofar as she was Sarah’s master in their bizarre world of master and slave.
And Release
And Sarah forgives her. Wow.
Forgiveness is rooted in such things. They had a very close relationship. It is hard to understand why, for instance, Sarah would forgive Lauren, and not Danielle Roberts.
It certainly is, Ollie~
Danielle Roberts was a doctor who should have known better and refused the task on the grounds that branding under these circumstances could be harmful to those in her care.
The difference was that Lauren denounced Keith and apologized to Sarah. Danielle has not denounced Keith and has doubled down with the deadenders, so no forgiveness for her.
6:02 am
And yet, Lo & behold
It WASN’T
Neither were they EVER under her care~
They had their own doctors!
Maybe they should have consulted them first?
Danielle Roberts carried out the branding with her little cauterising pen and advised on care of the brand – you think they could have gone straight to their doctor’s surgery post brand and said “….” what?
“ive just been branded by my fellow slave with the initials of our slave master…. I…what I mean is.. ive just been branded by a mate with a sigil of the uh, four elements.. Don’t tell anyone I told you because there’s seriously awful blackmail material…that will be released.. . If I tell…um… what do i do now?…how do I look after it”
???!!!!
OK, deadender.