By Brigid
Robert Dilts’ book ‘Sleight of Mouth’ gives a good insight into the tactics and techniques being ‘taught,’ or being USED on ‘students’ of programs such as Nxivm.
And herein lies the key to this cretinous VanGardasil’s influence: Steal a little of this, a little of that, throw in a heap of pretentiousness, ensure that the women and men around you are limited in their reading and education, so that he always appears as the smartest guy in the room.
Target a certain psychological profile, like Barbara Bouchey, for example, someone who had an emotionally stressful, difficult childhood, or, if the person had a well-adjusted background but fit the ‘seeker’ profile, wrench their deepest neuroses out of them to use against them.
Make up issues for them, if they are empty vessels. Those who can self-delude or self-brainwash are a cinch, just point them in a certain direction and away they go.
Interesting that it appears to be the younger generation who triggered the downward spiral of the crummy drab 1980s dry-wall construction condos of Nxivm. The younger women like Daniela who resisted so much, or who simply told him to fuck off, or criticized his limp dick like her sister Cami did, possessed some chutzpah these older broads did not.
It rocked him to his core. It baffled him that they found other, younger men attractive, so he had to keep adding more and more women to fill his void of sheer terror at being a mediocre schlub.
Even Nancy Salzman –could she not envision life without a man there to lead her, to be subservient to, a substitute husband?
The outward appearance of all these accomplished women was a mirage. They were like the Real Housewives of NY, none of whom are actually housewives, and none of these Nxivm women are either.
Had they been, their lives would not have been so derailed. This is what Lauren Salzman really wanted, after all. There is nothing wrong with wanting a family, to be in a heterosexual, committed relationship.
Maybe she failed to notice the rest of the world manages to do so. It is normal. To join a polygamous, glorified, prison camp cult is not normal. But the young women didn’t play ball and caused problems, and to her credit, once Sarah Edmundson married and created a family, she didn’t go along either.
Once Kristin Keefe had a baby, she too bolted.
We know of those who did not, or could not leave, precisely because they stayed, desperately trying to substitute a cult for a family, like Nicki Clyne, like Allison Mack.
And they didn’t do it for God, for any spirituality, but for cold clinical sales coaching, for introductory level psychology classes, for cheesy self-help crapola that should have gone out of style with macrame, ferns, quiche, Earth shoes, and pet rocks.
Raniere is a swinging singles suburban orgy throwback, a prog rock doofus, who looks like he wandered out of a John Denver concert. He’s no Burt Reynolds in a Camaro, despite the hairy chest, though they are both short. He is an intellectual lightweight, producing nothing of significance or substance. Deep down, I suspect Bouchey knows this, but cannot bring herself to admit it.
Burt Reynolds was 6 feet tall doofus.
Brigid:
You have never had a good quiche, if you believe quiche isn’t “in”…
I suspect the title of this article is a vain attempt at sounding intelligent on a subject the author knows little of.
Just word salad.
Sadly the majority of commentators on this blog comment without knowing a damn thing.
Having done little research, if any at all outside of this blog, having no real life experience of being in a cult (I have), no delving into medical journals, research papers, oh, maybe read a bit of Rick Ross yet have no clue about ground breaking work going back to the 50’s of Robert Lifton nor of Dr. Margaret Singer or Conway and Siegelman’s seminal work Snapping or even Stockholm Syndrome just to mention a few.
Yet we have Scott posting on and on ad nauseum about AMWAY.
Get over it Scott and move on with life.
Or the trolls, some NXIVM trolls, attempting to throw a monkey wrench into the works.
Yoy know nothing because you wish to know nothing yet you will vainly attempt to add something, which is nothing really, to the conversation just for attention.
Do your homework, please.
Do it for yourself so you won’t be taken in
Thought reform comes in all forms, all ideologies. Not just religious or pseudo self help.
It is said to be fore warned is to be fore armed.
Do not ever think it won’t be you. It has all ready happened to each and every one of you. Past, present and future.
If you are honest with yourself and go back through the corridor of time you will see how, over and over, you succumbed to many of the same tactics used by NXIVM.
I said some, not all. All are not necessary.
If you examine present time everyone of you will readily see how others use many of the same tactics to sway and capture.
Better not to say why me but to say why not me.
Omg, the way Raniere was all, “Emerson, Lake & Palmer?” Twice. In that low info/so bs vid with Allison Mack. What a loser fanboy. Allison was like, “Whatever you said is so deep.” Ha
The Lamb Lies Down in Halfmoon. Freaking amazing that this pipsqueek was all about trying to neg random women on the occasions he was stopping off at the Mobile station with his SOP idiot man posse on the way back to Knox Woods from Apropos. Ugh. He was such a swarmy creep.
“She married Clyne in order to help her stay in the USA so she could be close to Raniere.”
You’ve got proof of this? No, because there are several problems with this claim…
Up until now, here, it was accepted that Nicky was under Allison in the hierarchy but then the trial said otherwise…
Like the fact Allison was not in a relationship with Raniere (at least sexually) until 2015+ (Lauren’s testimony…she clearly said that Allison’s relation started after Dos (and seems like it’s based on fact as nobody contradicted the fact).
As for the reason for the marriage, you can’t claim it’s fake as nobody can be sure of that! Even court seem to Believe it as it’s not listed in her crimes).
I wouldn’t give the younger generation of Nxivm too much credit. Cami is still a Nxivm loyalist down in Mexico. Dani only abandoned her Vanguard because she fell in love with another man, not because she figured anything out. She was devoted to Raniere before that. Mack was still on Smallville when she followed Kreuk into the organization, both were twenty-something actresses at the time. So was Nikki Clyne.
Good commentary Brigid. Enjoyed it.
Dilts was Nancy Salzmans trainer, and worked on projects at Langley Institute, one of many MKUltra project locations.
Jim Jones cult members came from there, as did Jim Jones himself.
Any questions?
Perhaps not coincidentally, Dilts and one of Nancy Salzman’s NLP teachers, Joseph Yeager, co-wrote a work title Overcoming Resistance to Persuasion with Neuro-Linguistic Programming – it seems to me that the implications of that are deviously manipulative if not even sinister.
I think a lot of the general points in this piece are illustrative of what was at work in NXIVM. However, I know quite a few women of about the same age as the first generation of Raniere’s followers who would not have fallen for or put up with his bunk, and among younger generations there are obviously still those like Mack and Cline who were complete dupes.
There are definitely factors of generational and societal change that affect the recruiting, functioning, and member retention of high control groups or cults, but I’m not sure yet what case could really be made for how such factors might be at work in NXIVM.
Yep!! They and women like them are who in the hell bought 80 million copies of 50 Shades of Gray and flooded to the movie
“women like them are who in the hell bought 80 million copies of 50 Shades of Gray and flooded to the movie”
The best hope for Raniere is that society’s values have changed so much that with books and movies like “50 Shades of Grey” people will tolerate his alternate lifestyle.
I remember standing in line at a Barnes and Noble bookstore waiting to buy a book behind a middle age, middle class woman waiting to buy “50 Shades of Grey.”
Van Gardasil has to be the best one yet!!! 😂
An excellently written piece – thank you.
“cretinous VanGardasil” What a fantastic description!! In the Biblical book of Titus, Paul quotes a Cretan saying: “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes and lazy gluttons.” Perfect!
Solid thoughtful read after seeing too many lightweights being allowed by Frank to rap up the blog.
“wandered out of a John Denver concert. ”
Raniere does have a passing physical resemblance to John Denver.
To be fair to John Denver he did have real musical talent unlike the Vanguard.
John Denver’s real name was Henry John Deutschendorf, Junior and his father was a Lieutenant Colonel in the US Air Force.
His father set three speed records flying the B-58 bomber.
And unlike the Vanguard John Denver was a real champion of free speech and opposed censorship in the music industry.
And unlike the Vanguard John Denver only had two wives.
The Vanguard was not satisfied with even 100 Sister Wives.
“Henry John Deutschendorf Jr. (December 31, 1943 – October 12, 1997), known professionally as John Denver, was an American singer-songwriter, record producer, actor, activist, and humanitarian, whose greatest commercial success was as a solo singer. ”
“Henry John Deutschendorf Jr. was born on New Year’s Eve 1943, in Roswell, New Mexico, to Captain (later LTC) Henry John “Dutch” Deutschendorf,[7] a United States Army Air Forces pilot stationed at Roswell AAF and his wife, Erma Louise (Swope). Years later, as a Lieutenant Colonel in the U.S. Air Force, Deutschendorf Sr. would set three speed records in the B-58 Hustler bomber and earn a place in the Air Force Hall of Fame.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Denver
Deutschendorf, Henry John, Sr., Lt Col
Deceased
12 January 1961: Major Henry J. Deutschendorf, United States Air Force, 43rd Bomb Wing, Strategic Air Command, flew from Carswell Air Force Base, Texas to Edwards Air Force Base, California with Convair B-58A-10-CF Hustler, 59-2442, Untouchable. There, he flew two laps of a 1,000 kilometer circuit between Edwards and Yuma, establishing six new Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI) speed records at an average of 1,708.82 kilometers per hour (1,061.81 miles per hour). He and his two crewmen, Captain Raymond R. Wagener, Defensive Systems Officer; Captain William L. Polhemus, Radar Navigator/Bombardier, were each awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross.
(Major Deutschendorf was the father of Henry J. Deutschendorf, Jr., better known by his stage name, “John Denver”.)
https://airforce.togetherweserved.com/usaf/servlet/tws.webapp.WebApp?cmd=ShadowBoxProfile&type=Person&ID=206765
Coincidentally, John Denver was an evangelist for est.
Which was also recycled Scientology with a few other ideas thrown in.
I abhor Raniere’s behavior, selfishness, and lack of empathy toward others. But I doubt that he spends the rest of his life behind bars. My guess is that the jury will convict him on some charges, but not the real heavy ones. Did he take advantage of Mack, Salzman, et al? Yes, but they could have, and should have, made the decision to leave. All these people made a choice to turn over their lives to this charlatan with no regard to the consequences.
If Raniere walks free, and his group of devotees walk with him…let them go. It’s their choice and their problem. If some woman wants to get branded and be forced to compete with a squad of other women for the affection of a short, cross-eyed, 60 year old food blister, let her go. If a female finds “freedom” by living on 500 calories a day, which includes swallowing the semen of her vanguard, then she has made a choice. It’s all about choices.
” It’s all about choices.”
Jarhead, you’re absolutely right.
Freedom means the freedom to make bad choices.
In the case of the NXIVM women they made really, really bad choices.
Many of these NXIVM women would have been better off with boyfriends who work flipping burgers at McDonald’s than with the world’s self-proclaimed third smartest man.
Raniere probably faces additional charges, as apparently does Clare Bronfman – it may be hard to even bring a case against her without implicating him as well, along with quite a few others – and I think it would be particularly hard for the NDNY not to act on the dismissed pedophilia-related charges if the current SDNY case doesn’t yield a long prison term for Vanguard.
I suspect Raniere will end up behind bars for quite a while – in part to protect vulnerable people from him, and not just underage girls.
When he gets convicted, the rest of this pile of shits’ life probably won’t be very long at all. We can only hope that the rest of the inmates give this asshole the shlocking that he has been begging for all his life.
Unfortunately Raniere is not on trial for his more heinous crimes……
Such as Rape and child molestation.
I do not like the idea of agreeing with your statement Jarhead but you do make some fine points and good arguments.
I just pray your wrong about Raniere walking.
His only talent is the ability to sniff out people’s vulnerabilities, and use them for his own profit. Once found, he would amplify and reinforce those vulnerabilities to the point where people were unable to function in any kind of self-motivated way. The feeling of being in control of ones existence was undermined, and in many cases eradicated.
His whole existence has been that of a parasite.
Well said, Paul.