By AnonyMaker
This is in response to Who Is Jussie Smollett – and How Should He Be Punished? and a comment made by anonymous “Leave it to the left-wing nut anoyfaker to defend a criminal racist. Hey phony how come stuff like this never makes the liars at CNN? http://www.citypages.com/news/18-charged-for-downtown-minneapolis-attacks/560574361″
So now it’s “left wing” to grant people their right to a trial in this country, with the presumption of innocence?
I suppose you give us a glimpse into the mindset of the sort of people who used to join lynch mobs – yet another type of culty thinking.
Speaking of which, remember the Central Park 5 case – and the people who were calling for them to get the death penalty, even spending money to take out ads in newspapers to call for their execution? It turned out they were completely innocent, railroaded and coerced by police (perhaps an example of the sort of undue influence also used in cults), and the person who DNA tests proved committed the crime, and who finally confessed, wasn’t even black.
Back to Jussie Smollett, I said I thought it seems to me that he’s likely guilty. I’d just want to better understand what exactly he’s guilty of, and understand his culpability, before passing judgment on his punishment – though it seems pretty clear he owes the city and people of Chicago over $100,000 at a minimum. Is it somehow not damning enough to say I wonder if he might qualify for an insanity defense?
Communities of all types tend to protect their own, and people like them – it’s actually been shown to be a sort of cognitive bias resulting from how our brains evolved during the time our early ancestors lived in small bands – and of course it should be called out whenever it occurs.
When it involves the African-American community, I’m on it so much that my left-leaning friends accuse me of being a racist. You know you’re smack dab in the middle when culty thinkers on both sides of an ideological divide, accuse you of being on the other side.
Particularly relevant on this site, if what I know of high control groups and cults holds for other sorts of things, some of the worst abuses occur across the supposed heartland of the country and the Bible Belt in particular, and either never make into the national media, or are completely swept under the rug by “good old boy” style political and law enforcement establishments that make Albany look clean in comparison.
Here’s one example that’s been in the news, of a culty Christian group in a small Southern town that operated for years with impunity:
“They kept us as slaves”: AP reveals claims against church
https://www.apnews.com/52dc4fbe2fb64cec98740ad1e62b2115
Word of Faith Fellowship head named in fraud scam
https://www.wspa.com/news/word-of-faith-fellowship-head-named-in-fraud-scam/
As with NXIVM, local and state investigations, or reports, including of child abuse, went nowhere for decades until finally the feds got involved.
Scientology also infamously exploits and abuses the unlimited and unregulated religious worker program, receiving something like 40% off all the visas issued every year. There have been no crackdowns on that much-exploited program, or its abuses.
***
Getting back to Smollett – I assume we still have trials in this country, right?
While I tend to think he’s guilty, what we’ve seen in the media doesn’t add up to a satisfactory explanation, so I’d want to see what came out at trial before passing judgment, at least as to the severity of his punishment.
Maybe he’s actually just crazy, and would have to put on an insanity defense. Or perhaps he was smoking too much loco weed, and thought up a crazy sort of conspiracy theory – I think we know how that goes.
Thinking it through, the way this works on the other side of the unfortunate racial divide, is that for instance it is all too easy for white women (and children) to falsely blame black men, and be believed:
“The tragic case attracted worldwide attention and stirred racial tension after Smith initially told police that a black man had carjacked her and kidnapped her children. She tearfully pleaded for the kids to be returned. But nine days later, she admitted she pushed her car down the access ramp of John D. Long Lake with the kids in the back.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/susan-smith-mother-who-killed-kids-something-went-very-wrong-n397051
Once again in SC, a non-existent black man is blamed for a crime: “they blamed a black man for trying to abduct them”
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/south-carolina/article73719292.html
In 2016, two white elementary school kids who wanted to skip school in Fort Mill, blamed a black man for trying to abduct them. The York County Sheriff’s Office issued a statement in which the kids identified their alleged would-be kidnapper as a black male. The fact is they made up the story.
Really, there is so much more going on here than this, SORRY Jesse, but I am white, only saying that because people use that bullshit as a EXCUSE not to get educated and learn what terms and how to use them I have been married and dated black men for like 15 years, and I poor white,have seen and experienced all ways that people, All people, use against all to and for nothing but gain, we all have been given opportunities for help so we can be all you can be, so tired of this played out player games and using the race card, we need each other, when are we going to get it!!!
What I find extremely ironic is that the police officer that did the press release, the one who blamed Jussie for false reports, WAS BLACK. You want to act like whites are the only ones who fuel the hate. Look in the fucking mirror every once and a while; we really aren’t that different.
Good point
Dan K Webb the special prosecutor assigned to the case donated $1,000.00 dollars to state attorney Kim Fox for her campaign.The same Kim Fox that had charges dropped against Juicy.
Don’t Chicago have enough problem? Why are you on this man? Find something else to print. We are sick of you all talking about Jesse. Surely is more serious matters that can be on the front of the Chicago paper
Thinking further about some of the comments that seem to be trying to cast this in the light of race or ethnicity, a point occurred to me that gets back to a major topic of this site:
Aren’t most abusive cults, almost entirely white?
One of the first responses might be that it’s a socio-economic issue, that only whites have the combination of money, and the luxury of pondering the lack of deeper fulfillment in their lives, to be drawn by siren call of such groups – except there are enough African-Americans of means, that their virtual complete absence in groups like NXIVM, Ramtha, Scientology, isn’t really explained so easily.
And then there’s the one most obvious counter-example, Jonestown – but the leader was white, and while the victims were majority black a quarter were white with small numbers of other groups represented as well, so it’s not exactly a clear-cut example.
Clearly, then, there’s no generalization that holds up to scrutiny, and which doesn’t reveal nuances on closer examination.
The sort of more complex truth may be pointed at in what I outline in the piece above, that there are smaller groups scattered across the country, and even a few larger ones, that succeed in hiding – or at least don’t get the sensational media attention. As has been noticed, it seems as if it was only when NXIVM was exposed for branding a pretty and sympathetic seeming (white) woman that their abuses drew really media focus, and finally the attention of law enforcement as well. Perhaps there are a lot of small African-American cults that we just don’t know about – there’s no way to readily tell.
But these things are complex and, typically, involve multiple factors and their interplay. They are not explained with pat answers and broad generalizations, as much as we might want them – and, in fact, it’s that human urge for certainty and simplicity that is in fact one of the things that high control groups and cults, leaders and groups, exploit, along with our human tribal urges.
Annonymoron must be a minority, and can thus get away with what libs would call a “racist comment”
Anonymoron is an Islamic racist
Chicago: 75% of Murdered Are Black, 71% of Murderers Are Black
http://dcdirtylaundry.com/chicago-75-of-murdered-are-black-71-of-murderers-are-black/
There are always sensational examples and statistical outliers, which are virtually useless in telling us anything.
Chicago is perhaps the US’ most racially divided city. I can’t readily find the exact statistics, but certainly something in the ballpark of 70% the poor are black, also.
So does it have to do more with race, or poverty?
Charleston, WV, in Appalachia, is also among the most dangerous cities in the country. One of the first two mass school shootings in the US occurred there in 1898, as the result of a West Virginia feud.
Whites commit 65% of mass shootings, and the larger the number of victims and the younger their age, the more likely the killer is to be white. No black person has ever committed a mass school shooting. Do those things tell us anything by themselves, or just point to the inconvenient truth that much more complex factors are at work?
And Chicago is of course most infamous for its history of Italian gang violence – Capone (with ties to the Bronfman family), the Valentine’s Day massacre and all that. In sloppy generalizations, the origins of Chicago’s violence problem might even be blamed on them – that’s actually what the Klu Klux Klan tried to do in the 1920s, and its great resurgence then outside its traditional base in the South and into places like Illinois and Indiana (which explains why the latter, seemingly strangely, is one of the places where the KKK has come out to march in modern times) was based largely on exploiting fears of the popularly imagined threat of Italian Catholic immigration.
Anyway, this is starting to stray pretty far from the topic of the site – though perhaps it makes the point that at least for some, the Smollett case is more about trying to find a pretext to justify prejudices than it is about justice or other fundamental issues. One of the hallmarks of culty thinking is confusing correlation with causation, and making false generalizations.
Sorry slick, these are not sensational examples but in actuality quite common. Don’t let the facts get in the way of your racist agenda.
Re AnnoyMaker and his critics:
Is AnoyMaker a Libtard?
…..Or is he a guy that just recites facts and points of view on reality that refute all of your narratives that make you question yourselfs?
You all hate on him because he as an alternative view point.
Not because he is actually a bad person.
Shadowstate1958, Bangkok, and Scott Amway receive less scorn.
AnnoyMaker has yet to lose his patience and fire off a visceral hate fueled insult at anyone.
I do not always agree with his liberal outlook but I do not hate him.
What are all of you so threatened by?
Anonyfaker only recites facts in your demented imagination. Nobody is threatened by him. He is just another internet blowhard like you. You both need to get out of your mommy’s basement a live a life before it passes you by. To quote Dean Wormer, ….niceguy, being fat, drunk lazy and stupid is no way to go through life.
Anonymous,
Don’t be quoting one of the best movies ever made.
Are you suggesting that whites falsely accusing blacks somehow justifies blacks falsely accusing whites? In the cases you cited the truth was quickly discovered and the false accusers prosecuted. And how are Word of Faith or Scientology cults relevant to Smollet?
Certainly Smollett has the right to presumption of innocence and trial — but he was exonerated by a biased DA despite clear and compelling evidence to the contrary. The Nigerian Osundairo brothers caved when confronted with overwhelming evidence implicating them in the faux hate crime — complete with phone records to/from Smollett, Uber records and CCTV shots of the bros on the street. Jussie the genius wrote them a $3500 check – providing further evidence. Presumption of innocence until proven guilty? Sure. So was pedophile punk Vanguard and his depraved dysfunctional entourage. There needs to be a trial.
The stinging irony of this whole episode is the rank hypocrisy of Smollett and the politically correct grievance machine. What the progressive media fails to report is that Smollett in Chi-Town at 2 a.m. Is 30 times more likely to be gunned down by another black male than to be victim of a white supremacist hate crime — and about 40 times more likely to be shot by another black man than by a cop.
Not racism. Sad reality.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/tables/table-13-state-cuts/illinois.xls
https://heyjackass.com/category/2018-stats/
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/table-21
No, I’m just pointing out a contrasting example in response to a piece, and particularly some comments, that seem to me to risk painting one particular group as somehow necessarily more prone to reprehensible than another.
I’m a centrist, and from my perspective, all groups and ideologies have culty thinking and inexcusable behavior at their extremes, held and carried out by people who actually have more fundamentally in common with each another – intolerant hatred of others different from themselves, ends-justify-the-means thinking that justifies harming (including defrauding) others, and so on – than they do with the large majority of decent, thoughtful and reasonable people in the middle.
The Word of Faith and Scientology are relevant both because they both exemplify abuses that have gone largely unpunished because of the social and political cover provided by the demographics involved, and also because they get back to the topic of cults that has been one of the major focuses of this blog.
Thanks for your thoughts, and a good question or two. I apologize if I was not as clear as I might have been; I struggle to balance between trying to make sure that my positions and thoughts are adequately explained, but not writing too much and getting into TL;DR territory.
p.s. The sort of sad and unfortunate statistical realities that you point to in your last sentence, are the sort of ones that I will bring up myself when relevant, such as when my very liberal friends take a position that seems to me excessively apologetic of misbehavior and dysfunction found in the African-American community – and even sometimes results in them accusing me of being a racist.
AnoyMaker,
Being a logical centrist and being labeled by the Right or the Left depending on the topic and audience must be getting old for you by now. Right?
What Liberals and Conservatives do not realize is that they are two sides of the same coin…..
….The coin being idealism.
Both have noble goals and totally unrealistic perspectives regarding life’s issues.
.
Niceguy, spot on about idealism.
That’s also another nexus between ideological extremes, and cults. Cults are also almost always driven by some sort of idealism believing that men, society and the world can be transformed if not perfected by their doctrines and practices – which then of course justifies doing almost anything in furtherance of that aim.
Communism is classified as a form of idealism, philosophically. And while Scientology’s L. Ron Hubbard, for instance, railed against the Soviets, he ended up creating something that very much resembles Stalin’s repressive totalitarian state – even down to the fact that the rank-and-file members essentially have their assets confiscated, and are expected to retain only the income necessary for a minimal existence, so that all wealth goes towards their supposed idealistic goals; Raniere, nominally a fan of Ayn Rand, did very much the same with his inner circle.
p.s. Thanks for your recent thoughtful comments
Anonyfaker and niceguy are racing to the top for bullshit comments of absurd stupidity.
Meanwhile back in the real world
https://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2019/09/virginia-school-says-allegation-of-student-who-accused-classmates-of-cutting-dreadlocks-is-false/
https://www.redstate.com/streiff/2019/09/30/hate-crime-hit-karen-pence-immanuel-christian-school-proven-false-will-anyone-apologize/
Frank stop allowing politics, of either side, into this blog.
The left, yes, the left, is the only one that has seen fit to do this and you allow it.
Thus I hold you primarily responsible.
So since whites are still of the “lynch mob” mentality in your world any time a white accuses a black of a crime it is racism?
So when my maternal uncle was shot by a black robber in 1972 in a botched arm robbery and my uncle lost his spleen that was all caused by white racism?
How about the time my father was almost carjacked by a black robber in Washington DC?
How about this video from KARE TV, the NBC affiliate in Minneapolis that shows a single white man in downtown Minneapolis being sucker punched and beaten by a mob of 20 blacks near the baseball stadium Target field?
Is this video white racism?
Brutal videos add to MPD staffing debate
You mean Somalis or are we going to constantly be pc and not know the truth?
Shadow, I did not say, nor do I mean to imply, anything like what you try to characterize in your first line.
I think if you pay close attention to what I wrote, as well as my subsequent notes, that should be clear.
All groups’ violent mobs are reprehensible – and unfortunately, most or all groups seem to be prone to forming them and going after people they perceive as different and/or hate.
Word salad anyone?
figures anonyfaker with more fake news. typical left wing nut cuckold.
Too bad this does not fit your putrid leftist agenda
http://www.citypages.com/news/18-charged-for-downtown-minneapolis-attacks/560574361
https://abc7chicago.com/26-shot-5-fatally-in-chicago-weekend-violence/5560824/
If it smells like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, sets up a fake lynching to incite a mob like a duck….
I wondered how long it would be before Juicy’s lover came forward in his defense.
I’d like to note that this is two of my comments put together, and while it kind of flows, the second half actually proceeded that section.
The first section is a response to some commentary on the original piece about Smollett by Claviger – not to Claviger’s piece itself. I respect Claviger’s work, and think he’s probably not even too far off in his assessment of a likely fair punishment for Smollett, but at least to me there is enough that remains strangely unexplained about this case that would want to see the results of a thorough investigation, perhaps brought out at trial, before passing judgment. If, for instance, substance abuse turned out to be a significant factor, or his mental competence is in question, a rather differently structured sentence might be in order, though I would still want to seem him held fully accountable for his actions.
And though it seems like the basic facts of his fraud are pretty cut and dried, sometimes things are not as they seem. That is, indeed, why we have trials based on a presumption of innocence.
Could he be the victim of some devious conspiracy, orchestrating a cunning setup to destroy his credibility – perhaps because he knows too much about something? (just kidding – mostly)
Could he be the victim of some devious conspiracy
What a fuckin conspiracy kook. Either that or you’re as bad at parody as the leftist marxist shitstain Schiff.