By Actaeon
I really don’t know anything about Leslie Wexner or his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.
In the popular mind, anyone associated with Epstein is tainted; it’s simple guilt by association, which can be profoundly unjust. But that’s mob justice for you.
Shivani wrote, “Epstein must have brought more than a young lady to Wexner. That would be easy to pay off or hide. Epstein’s entire life was having these girls around… It was probably a mix of boys, girls, men, women and anonymity to hide anything Wexner thinks of as perversions.”
Is there any basis for this at all, other than speculation?
Any sources at all? Because none are given. So Shivani speculates that Wexner was having sex with children and that he’s bisexual, and we are supposed to accept it as fact. On his or her say-so. No evidence at all.
Seriously?
“Wexner had his pick of women; he was 55 and immensely wealthy. He had models begging to work.”
Shivani is saying that Wexner could have made models screw him in exchange for modeling jobs. Pull a Harvey Weinstein.
Perhaps the reason Wexner didn’t do this is because it’s illegal, unethical, and gross?
Perhaps Wexner isn’t the creep that Shivani assumes? Because, as far as I can see, the only evidence that Wexner is tainted is his association with Epstein.
As far as I can see, having read Shivani’s piece, Wexner is guilty of nothing.
Again, I know nothing about Wexner. I don’t particularly care one way or the other. It just surprises me that people buy this guilt by association crap. That people are okay with speculating about all sorts of nasty crimes and misdeeds with not the slightest proof.
Speculation is not evidence; do people really not know this?
“People have reported that it was impossible not to notice all the underaged girls around Epstein…”
This deserves close examination. “People have reported…” well, that’s gossip.
It is essentially meaningless.
I mean, Shivani says a bunch of stuff that’s pure speculation. People can report their speculation. What they imagine to be the case. What they think happened. None of this is factual. There is a reason hearsay is not admissible in court. It’s not evidence. It is, in point of fact, worthless in getting at the truth.
As for it being impossible not to notice all the underage girls around Epstein, I think it would be very possible. I know virtually nothing about my friends’ and relatives’ sex lives. Do you? Probably not.
Your pal Bill – how often does he masturbate?
What kind of porn has your sister watched? Don’t know? Well, maybe some of Epstein’s friends are like us.
I have read several articles about Epstein. There is a good deal of information about his many girlfriends. He had a voracious appetite for young women, models specifically. Most of them seem to have been in their early 20s.
I don’t disbelieve that he had sex with some underage ‘Lolitas,’ and that makes him a creep and a criminal.
But mostly he seems to have been a rich older guy who liked to screw young hotties. A playboy. This seems to piss off the pearl-clutching public in an ecstasy of outraged moral superiority. (Or perhaps jealousy.) In my opinion, Epstein was an asshole, but I can’t abide by the guilt by association condemnation of anyone and everyone who knew the creep. That’s going too far.
Moral panics are ugly, nasty business. And we’re smack in the middle of one now.
Oh, and as for Victoria’s Secret objectifying women, their target customer is female. Customers don’t seem to object, and if women want to buy lacy black thongs I have no objections.
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Security Cameras Often Fail – It Does Not Mean Epstein Was Murdered
The convoluted and self-contradictory narratives of conspiracy theories fail the Occam’s Razor test.
If some powerful cabal capable of pulling the strings of government wanted Epstein dead, there are much cleaner ways of doing it.
The imagined ‘diabolical plot’ that I see discussed is the most bizarre, clumsy, extravagant mess imaginable. These Rosicrucians – or whoever they’re supposed to be – outdo the Three Stooges.
As for security lapses and nonfunctional cameras, most of the places I’ve worked in my long career have had serious maintenance issues, and very little gets done strictly by the book. I know from experience that security cameras are rarely much use, the images they give are usually blurred, indistinct images of the tops of people’s heads. The wide-angle lenses that are used to give maximum coverage result in tiny images of suspects who could be anybody. It’s hardly unusual for them to be out of order or for the recording apparatus to not be storing images (they’re not examined until needed). In fact, security cameras are often there for effect – to act as a deterrent – more than for any actual usefulness as a forensic tool.
When there’s a big incident, and accident or (in this case) an infamous death, the media and the public go nuts, suddenly being amazed that there are lapses in procedure at the institution in question. How could this be! How could this have been allowed to happen! Well, because the prison, like lots of places, was chronically understaffed. Like most places, maintenance wasn’t 100 percent.
The “string of unlikely coincidences” theorizing is a logical error. For example, if I get into a fender bender driving to pick up my Chinese food order, just think of all the “unlikely coincidences” involved.
How come I’m going out for Chinese on that particular evening? Why not delivery? Can’t be pure chance! And the timing has to be just right. I had to leave the house on the precise minute, timed perfectly so as to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. The guy who hit me had to do the same… you’re not gonna tell me that was purely coincidental! Dark forces were at work!
Dark forces are almost never at work. That’s why conspiracy theories need to be looked at with deep skepticism.
In lurid sidelight to Epstein scandal, Alan Dershowitz asks judge to dismiss defamation case
Why?
Because Deshowitz was accused by the Epstein victim of statutory rape, she said Epstein made her have sex with Alan Dershowitz when she was underage. And it’s not the Epstein victim that made a claim about Wexner this week, it was Dershowitz. Dershowitz is basically threatening to blackmail people into putting pressure on the woman suing him in hopes he can get the lawsuit pulled.
During Tuesday’s hearing, Dershowitz’s lawyers alleged that Giuffre has said in court papers that she was forced to have sex with Wexner, the 82-year-old chairman of the Limited Brands. Dershowitz repeated that charge outside the federal courthouse. He has claimed that by accusing him of sexually abusing Giuffre, the Boies firm would be able to extract a settlement from Wexner, under the presumption that Wexner would be afraid that Giuffre would go public with her allegations against him the same way she did against Dershowitz.
Is Dershowitz correct here? Who knows? The Miami Heralds notes Dershowitz did NOT make this allegation four years ago when the case first came up and
There’s been no indication thus far of any settlement negotiated with Wexner, who has not commented about Giuffre’s allegations or Dershowitz’s statements about those allegations.
However, it’s weird that Wexner’s name has not come up before, but he could also be taking the risk that Wexner wants no part of the lawsuit and would see this AS A THREAT whether or not Dershowitz was lying.
Dershowitz has been a total sleaze about this case for years so I don’t trust anything he says, but he could be calling out a fellow sleaze telling him, if I go down I’m taking you with me
While you say that CCTV usually does not work, my exprience is that it does. Here in my building a thief entered. He was caught clearly on CCTV. Same for the one around the corner. And I live in a rent-controlled place. This is not the Trump Towers, or a prison.
Surely one might have worked at the MCC?
And while there are other ways of murdering someone, time was of the essence. Jeffrey wanted to talk.
Ken of course you are correct. This whole article is a product of a delusional imagination.
[…] The Only Evidence Leslie Wexner Is Tainted Is Mere Association With Jeffrey Epstein […]
Re Epstein murder or suicide and Acteon’s anti-conspiracy opinion…
Why are people so shocked that Epstein had the opportunity to commit suicide via gross incompetence and negligence?
If you are currently reading this comment and have a college education and are even somewhat successful in your present profession ask yourself the following question…..
Would you work in a prison?
A large portion of prison guards are individuals that did not qualify for the police academy or the police department….. Or the prison applicants can not find any other decent paying job.
Question:
Why did Epstein kill himself?
Answer:
Prison is a living hell. The inmates guards,food, and environment are torture. Epstein was looking at going to jail for life. Would you want to eat low grade baloney sandwiches or bacon grease on generic white bread for life?
Ache-on is right. Epstein killed him self.
Niceguy, good points.
Throw on top of that the current environment of worsening underfunding and understaffing, which tells those working in the prisons that those in charge and setting policy no longer care about standards and practices, or jobs well done.
Conspiracy theories are typically built on fallacious assumptions that both the conspirators themselves, and functionaries necessarily involved like the guards in a prison, operate with extraordinary competency and efficiency, and never make mistakes or do things which don’t make sense. I can’t imagine that anyone who’s ever worked in the real world, doesn’t understand that’s not how human endeavors actually function – which probably says something about the lack of life experience of those who post about such theories. You’d think that even folks living in basements would have experienced pizza deliveries gone awry and video game updates that failed.
Acteon, thanks in particular for the reminder about Occam’s Razor.
And I agree that we just don’t know about Wexner. Indeed, people have said that it was impossible not to notice all the young girls around Epstein – but we also know that he was good at compartmentalizing things when necessary to his schemes to influence and manipulate people, plus it seems as if Wexner may have been a rather socially clueless type, so those anecdotes raise questions but it doesn’t really answer anything. Epstein also seems to have had a guru-like hold over Wexner, and so his is yet another of the cases in which we are left yearning for answers and explanations.
One of the problems with the theories that involve Epstein’s body not being on that gurney that, typically, the conspiracy theorists posing them haven’t really thought through, is that then the conspirators would have had to both get some sort of substitute into the prison to be put on the gurney, and then smuggle the real Epstein out; it would be hard to add more implausible layers of complexity, and the requirement that a large number of people be involved and all keep perfect silence, if you tried. Even if Epstein wasn’t dead, the simplest way to get him out – and the most obvious, to anyone thinking it through – would be to put him on the gurney, playing dead or sedated (that’s also an established cloak-and-dagger Hollywood cliche’, because it’s an obvious if somewhat fantastic solution).
“Oh, and as for Victoria’s Secret objectifying women, their target customer is female.”
Actually, Victoria’s secret was created to be a place where men would feel comfortable buying lingerie for their wives or girlfriends. From https://www.marketwatch.com/story/victorias-secret-sells-womens-underwear-but-has-been-marketing-to-men-2018-09-18
“Victoria’s Secret sells women’s underwear, but the target demographic for its marketing is men.”
That’s not quite what the body of the article says, though. Nothing about making Victoria’s Secret stores places where men feel comfortable shopping. Every time I’m in one of their stores with my wife, I’m about as comfortable as I am in a biker bar, which is to say, not at all. (My wife is usually headed for the flannel pajamas display, BTW). I have never seen a man buy anything in a Victorias Secret shop.
The article is mostly interview with the CEO of a “socially conscious” women’s underwear chain called Naja– ever heard of them? No? I wonder how their annual sales stack up?
My point being the “objectifying women” thing is overused and a dubious idea to begin with. People are people, not objects. Taking pictures of people does not change that, even if the people are in their underwear. The whole idea of “objectification is silly over-intellectualizing inflated into a rallying cry.
Ok fine I admit it. I am Nicki. Shadowclown, I hope you’re happy that you finally solved the mystery. I am the Mastermind behind all things. Allison’s pussy tasted great!
The Wexner defenders…….all two of the ,have been given a platform to pop off more pablum. Wexner is in the crosshairs.
I thought one of Epstein accusers said she was ordered to service Wexner……
Not true because anoypeacemaker-acteon nut job said it was not true. They should know as birds of a perverted feather flock together.
“As for security lapses and nonfunctional cameras, most of the places I’ve worked in my long career have had serious maintenance issues,”
IDK where you’ve worked, Acteon, but one might reasonably expect that the security system in any Federal prison — especially in areas guarding a high-profile, serious criminal so recently found bruised and unconscious with allegedly no recollection of what happened — might do a little better than your employer.
Assuming as you do that incompetence of this magnitude was the over-riding factor in Epstein’s death, IDK how the Feds are keeping the world’s smartest problem solver and East Coast Judo champion alive and unescaped, either.
Heidi, you might think that – but unfortunately that is just falling into a trap of thinking of the sort that I’ve been writing about lately:
your logical fallacy is
personal incredulity
“Because you found something difficult to understand, or are unaware of how it works, you made out like it’s probably not true.”
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity
The MDC in Brooklyn was such a dubious facility that when El Chapo was tried in Brooklyn at the same nearby courthouse as the NXIVM 5, they kept him across the river at the MCC in Manhattan at great expense and logistical lengths, such as having to shut down the Brooklyn Bridge every time he was transported. I found that out when a sloppy conspiracy theorist tried to claim that El Chapo’s successful detention somehow proved that Epstein couldn’t have been allowed to kill himself; a quick fact-check confirmed that the two were held in similarly named, but entirely different facilities, precisely for the reason that MDC was considered inadequate.
It turns out that the federal prison system has been underfunded and understaffed for years, as I’ve documented through numerous articles new and old that I’ve linked to; it’s not run the way we would expect, but that just hasn’t been widely known. If there’s something scary going on in the big picture, it’s that our prisons are being turned into substandard gulags like in Russia, Iran and the Philippines – where, ultimately, if a leader wanted to dispose of people, there would be no real accountability.
Staffing concerns raised as prison suicides climb
“Federal inmates were killing themselves at escalating rates when President Donald Trump’s administration dropped 5,156 officer and staff positions through a hiring freeze and budget cuts — a downsizing of 14%.
The suicide rate continued to rise as staffing vacancies increased and as permanent cuts were made in 2018”
https://www.nwaonline.com/news/2019/sep/01/staffing-concerns-raised-as-prison-suic/
The only things that really need to work in a prison are the locks on the doors.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/books/article-life-in-a-cult-sarah-edmondson-unveils-her-experience-with-nxivm/
“NXIVM attracted A-list celebrities, she writes, including one of the world’s most beloved actresses, an iconic rock-and-roll legend and Oscar-winning directors. In the book, she teases, but does not identify them.“That actress who broke up her co-star’s marriage in real life? Yep.”
Actress could be Angelina Jolie. She and Brad Pitt got together when Pitt was with Jennifer Aniston.
“Iconic rick and roll legend” could be Rolling Stone Keith Richards.
Anthony Ames posted this to his instagram account:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B1MDa-vB6zI/
What perhaps matters most is that no real celebrity ever got enough further than introductory courses, or enamored enough of the group, to want to publicly promote it – there are always a couple of Hollywood types who will dabble in almost anything new (a few hung around Anton LaVey’s Church of Satan in the 1960s, for instance), and whoever they did get probably had a history of group-hopping. That left NXIVM with Vicente (a cult-hopper himself) and the Vancouver crowd of TV actors.
Groups like this thrive on the affiliation of any known figures they can manage to snag, or a rumor mill fed with claims that supposedly prominent people are involved, in order to try to bolster their credibility. Edmondson’s innuendo sounds to me like the same sort of breathy gossip that she probably used to recruit people when she was in.
There are several minor categories of independent films where the Oscar is considered to go to the director. At least in the past they have sometimes gone to rich heirs with the wherewithal to fund lavish projects to put their name on.
My guess is that Edmondson’s claims would turn out to be much less substantial than she implies.