Nxivm is Toast
I think NXIVM is toast in the US.
A few diehards may carry on, but it will be virtually impossible to recruit anyone to any vestige that an internet search would show as being connected to Raniere and his depredations.
Some true believers in the “tech” (a term that Scientology also uses) may go on to start new groups, but most of what NXIVM used and taught is recycled from groups, movements and teaching previous to them, so any offshoots will likely pick different aspects to focus on and diverge very significantly.
The interesting question, is what happens in Mexico.
I think that part of NXIVM’s allure down there, was that it was a US thing, and so the ruin of its reputation here will reduce its cachet there, particularly among the sort of internationally-oriented elites that it relied on. So I suspect that NXIVM itself in Mexico will disintegrate, except possibly for the small hard core, and most members with any remaining interest are likely to end up in some offshoot, or even just some other group.
Hard to Find Good in Nxivm
My perspective is that Ericksonian hypnosis and the NLP developed out of it, tend to be inherently manipulative tools especially when used in group settings, so I have trouble imagining someone really making something truly positive and beneficial out of them, much less anyone in the crowd that started off with MLMs like CBI [Raniere’s Consumer Buyline that preceded NXIVM] and then went down the ESP/NXIVM rathole.
CBI was shut down in the mid 1990s for being an illegal pyramid scheme, and by that time Raniere was committing statutory rape, so I think he’s been a criminal all along.
ESP seems to have gotten worse over time as those who joined it out of idealism slowly got sucked into justifying crimes – including feeding Raniere’s predilection for young women – as a necessary means to the end of supporting the “mission,” and in the end even Raniere’s depravity seems to have descended to new lows with what he did in DOS
Nancy Salzman seems to have some talents and skills that could be used for good, but from accounts she has a rather manipulative bent, so while I think that she might have what it would have taken to salvage something better from NXIVM and keep some of the followers, I wouldn’t expect it to be free of some level excess control and other cult-like elements.
I’d look to someone who was involved with ESP/NXIVM early on, and then left because of philosophical and ethical disagreements with what was being done. But if there was someone like that interested and able to create a more positively oriented group, they’d have already done so. As I think we’re seeing on multiple levels, anyone who got deeply involved in NXIVM is fundamentally compromised.
The most positive take on NLP that I’m aware of is the work of Steve and Connirae Andreas, including the books Heart of the Mind and Core Transformation Process – and I actually worked with them briefly. But they never exactly formed a community that I’m aware of, and their group training work is pretty low key, which may be telling in and of itself.
If someone has some take on what might be done “legitimately,” to bring back the teachings of Nxivm – I’d be interested to see it outlined at least briefly.
Who Pays Raniere’s Appeal?
Maybe the lawyers expect that Keith Raniere can pay for his appeal out of Pam Cafritz’ estate, or his share of Clare Bronfman’s island.
Or perhaps once they’ve been paid millions of dollars at full rate for a case, they’re willing to see a basic appeal through at the risk of not getting paid much further; and here, do something that might shake loose some money that they could then grab a share of.
There are all sorts of possibilities that we could speculate about, and no real evidence for any of them.
Clare Bronfman Wants Education?
I do wonder if the accounts of Clare wanting to pursue further education, indicate that she’s starting to think on her own and go different directions are true.
Once people are out of the hothouse environment of a high control group or cult, their allegiance and interest often start to wane pretty quickly. Nancy Salzman is probably more and more blaming Raniere for ruining everything (I’ve heard rumblings about that, and have a personal source of information to bolster it), and perhaps others are souring on him as well as they look back on things and face their fate.
If history is any guide we’re almost certain to be surprised at what was actually going on in a couple of individual cases, so again who knows in any one case.
Clare Bronfman, for one, may be facing the fact that she’s gone from being carefree wealthy, to being very restricted for her, in what she can spend money on, since most of her available assets outside of old trust funds, have either been lost or are now tied up. Probably gone are the days when she could just buy a horse farm for her amusement – or sink tens of millions into an endeavor in an attempt to bolster her imagined reputation as a “humanitarian.”
She could end up something like this:
“Huguette Marcelle Clark was an American heiress and philanthropist, who became well known again late in life as a recluse, living in hospitals for more than 20 years while her various mansions remained unoccupied.”
(It’s a truly bizarre story; she was born of an affair between her father, described by Mark Twain as among the most awful men who had ever lived, and a young housemaid).
Need More on Vancouver Scene
From what I have heard some say here, Mark Hildreth actually recruited more people into NXIVM than Kreuk – including Kreuk herself. I never even heard of any of these people before, but on what basis do you assume that Kreuk was the most famous Vancouver member? Hildreth apparently wielded more influence within the community, and then of course there was Edmondson who ran the Vancouver scene and did the most recruiting of all.
And yes, we know that Kreuk is the first person who pops into some people’s minds. Continually, ad nauseum.
I’d rather hear more about Hildreth, Kendra Voth and others to truly put the Vancouver scene in perspective – as well as to understand the role of Mack, who was both an outsider and an insider, and had apparently dragged along her abusive and manipulative first boyfriend and fiancee who we know far too little about. If people spent half the time digging for information about figures like those, that they spewing obsessive word salad over Kreuk, we might actually know useful things that would help us better understand what went on.