By Dianne Lipson
Another day of testimony for Mark Vicente. This is his third day on the witness stand. He began at the end of Day #1 – and he spent all of Day #2 on direct examination.
Cross-examination has not begun yet.
Keith was wearing the same royal blue sweater and white shirt he wore the other day. And, by the way, he’s ugly.
For the first time since the trial began, the courtroom was not full.
There were some interesting moments this morning as we learned more about how the cult operated. Here are some of the things we learned today from Mark Vicente.
Vicente has an immunity agreement with the government. As a result, anything he says that reveals he committed a crime won’t be used to prosecute him unless he fails to tell the truth.
Vicente has retained an attorney to represent him in a potential civil lawsuit against Nxivm or some of its leaders.
Vicente said that during his time at Nxivm, he was concerned with the way Keith Raniere was running Nxivm. One of his concerns was about Keith sleeping with members – and another was about how the company spent money. He was also concerned about what he described as “criminal behavior”.
Vicente testified about what Keith said about Barbara Bouchey, Susan Dones and the rest of the Nxivm 9 – all of whom were described as suppressives. The money Barb and the others attempted to get from Nxivm was characterized, by Keith, as attempted extortion. Civil actions were filed – and Vicente testified that he was asked to go to a Nxivm Center to do damage control. He did so. Others went to other Centers to do the same thing.
After the Nxivm 9 left, Vicente was promoted to Green Sash.
At that same time, a new Executive Board was appointed. The new board included Emiliano Salinas, Alex Betancourt, Clare Bronfman, Lauren Salzman, and Nancy Salzman. But even though the Executive Board was responsible for the company’s overall policies, it could not make any policy changes. Ultimate authority – and ultimate decision making – rested with Keith alone. That’s because Keith was seen as the wisest person.
The government lawyer, Mark Lesko, characterized a certain group of NXIVM members as the “trusted group.” Membership in this group was not necessarily based on Stripe Path ranking. Nor was it limited to those who were on the Executive Board.
The trusted ones went on social outings together – and were invited to Nancy’s house. The trusted group had special privileges, one of which was spending more time with Keith.
Lesko asked Vicente if some of the members of the trusted group had intimate relations with Keith and he said he believed they did.
The trusted group included Pam Cafritz, Mariana Fernandez, Dawn Morrison, Edgar Boone, Lauren Salzman, Nancy Salzman, Sara and Clare Bronfman, Monica Duran, Dani Padilla, and Karen Unterreiner.
Esther Chiappone Carlson was not trusted.
Vicente said that seeking Keith’s approval was very important. If you didn’t praise Keith in speeches, you would hear about it.
Members of the trusted group recruited people of influence. Clare, Alex Betancourt, and Emiliano Salinas enrolled high net worth individuals.
At one point, a neighbor [in Knox Woods] had a problem with Keith and became very aggressive. A large guy who was a member of Nxivm stepped in between Keith and the neighbor – and Keith really praised this person.
There were two systems of payment from Mexico. One was online – and the other, which Vicente personally observed, involved the payment of cash to Nancy. Vicente did not know if this cash was recorded or not. For the Nxivm bookkeeping records, Nxivm used a code word for cash – it was “TLL”.
Vicente communicated with Keith by phone, Whatsapp and Telegram.
Vicente would sometimes ask about certain people who Keith said had “ethical breaches” but he kind of got the message from Keith not to ask. So he stopped asking.
Siobhan committed an ethical breach by not completing an editing project. She was put in a room until she finished it.
There was no formal process of rehabilitation for an ethical breach. It was Vicente’s understanding that no one ever totally rehabilitated themselves.
If someone was not giving appropriate tribute to Keith, Keith said they were prideful.
Vicente was told he was prideful and that he lacked a full understanding of the concept of tribute.
In the Mexico film project, Vicente was accused of minimizing Raniere. He was asked, “After everything that you’ve been given by Keith, how could you do that?”
His personality was picked apart.
If you were prideful, you had to agree to a special program. It involved humility. Humility was the antidote for pridefulness – and they used it a great deal.
“Penance” was introduced in the “Human Pain” curriculum – and involved the creation of a consequence for inappropriate behavior. One example of “penance” was being forced to take a cold shower.
“Feedback” was being told something you didn’t know or didn’t want to know about yourself.
As you moved up the Stripe Path, you were expected to be more and more open to seeing that if you argued, it was a sign of pride and resistance.
“Shunning” was when you didn’t talk to somebody or do business with them. Barbara Bouchey was shunned. Michelle and Lauren Salzman were told to shun their father.
There were attempts to curry favor with the Clintons and with New York State Senator Joe Bruno – and a strong desire to connect with other people in politics. Nancy spent a lot of time with Joe Bruno.
They discussed the illegal bundling of campaign contributions for Hillary Clinton – via which Nxivm members donated to Clinton and received illegal reimbursements from Clare.
Vicente was asked if he was afraid of being sued by Nxivm after he decided to quit the organization. He responded: “Indeed, I was.”
He was asked about NXIVM suing journalists – and enemies of NXIVM. He was also asked about NXIVM’s use of private investigators and about the conversations he had with Raniere regarding Kristin Snyder, the woman who disappeared in Alaska after taking a Nxivm class.
Keith told Vicente that NXIVM’s private investigators found Snyder alive at a motel with her girlfriend. In 2014, Keith told Vicente the private investigators had found Snyder in Florida and were watching her but then they lost her.
Vicente testified about a promotional video he made for V-Week. He was asked to remove a portion of it because a woman named Nicole appeared in it [She is one of the Jane Does in this case – the one who was tied down and blindfolded while Camila performed oral sex on her as Keith watched. She is expected to testify.] Nicole – Vicente was told – was on a mission where it would be dangerous if she was seen in the video. [That secret mission was to seduce the son of Esther Chiappone Carlson].
Vicente edited the video and took out Nicole.
Vicente testified about the Society of Protectors (SOP), which also had readiness drills similar to the ones DOS had. A message would be sent and they had to text back “ready”.
That was a daily thing at a certain hour. But there were also random readiness drills that could occur any time of day or night so SOP members were always on standby.
If Keith was upset about something and he walked out, everybody was happy.
The concept of collateral was introduced to SOP but it was not the same as the nude pictures or confessions that the women of DOS provided. Instead, if an SOP member promised to do something, money would be taken out of his credit card. If he did what he said he was going to do, the money was restored. But if he didn’t do it, he lost the money. Vicente said he lost money this way.
“SOP Complete” was a special training program that was open to both men and women. It was run like a boot camp – and it included discipline and hazing.
It was six days long. The idea was to give women the experience of being a little boy in a man’s world.
For example, women were often told to “man up and stop crying.” You had to sit up straighter or get singled out. Planks were used as punishments. There were consequences, nicknames, and costumes such as fairy wings and princess tiaras.
Clare Bronfman was given a jockstrap to wear for thinking she was in charge of things.
That was Raniere’s decision.
The basic idea behind SOP Complete was that women were coddled their whole lives and no understanding of reality.
Esther Chiappone Carlson had an issue with this misogynistic training and Raniere had to talk her down. Remember, she was the one who was not trusted.
Vicente brought some concerns of certain women about this misogynistic training to Keith – and then realized he shouldn’t have done that. Keith wanted to know who the women were that complained.
Vicente believed that SOP Complete was created to help women feel stronger. But he noticed these women became shells of themselves as they were beaten into submission. Vicente said that the women were obedient to men in a way that was dangerous. It broke them. It was not good for them.
Vicente had a discussion with Lauren Salzman about having a baby. Although Lauren really wanted a baby, Keith insisted that she was not ready to become a mother.
There was an obsession with weight among the women. Women became pale and unhealthy, eating the same low calorie food all the time. They looked terrible. You could see their bones.
Mariana, Nikki Clyne, and Sylvie were all very thin.
Vicente was concerned that Allison Mack was dropping so much weight – and that she always appeared tired and malnourished. Vicente talked to Keith, expressing his concern and Keith said, “Well, she’s still getting her period.”
At one point, Keith said he was trying to break Allison.
Vicente said he never got clear answers from Keith about why India was so unhealthy.
Vicente was disturbed. He got it about “pridefulness” but wondered how losing weight could fix that.
He asked Keith these questions but only in private, not in front of others.
Vicente became aware of Keith’s sexual relationships with women when Barbara Jeske died and Keith said it was like losing a wife. Vicente also said Mariana conceived with Keith – which would have been around the time that Pam Cafritz died. But Vicente didn’t become aware of the harem of over 20 women until after he left Nxivm.
Vicente was aware that Keith was always touching and kissing women. He said that Keith was very touchy-feely with women, touching and kissing them on the lips at the Center – which Vicente thought was inappropriate in a corporate environment.
There was discussion about Allison being promoted to Proctor. Vicente was concerned because he felt she was not stable. And the women she was mentoring were not doing well.
Vicente said that India had a close relationship with Mack who took India under her wing.
India had big dreams. She wanted to have a talk show where she would interview the world’s most interesting people and she wanted to do things with cooking. But after India went on a walk with Keith, she changed her focus and gave up all those dreams.
Vicente was concerned that India was becoming enamored with Allison Mack, like she was falling in love with her. He didn’t think it was healthy.
The lunch break was called and VIcente will resume testifying after lunch.
I was so young when members of my family joined NXIVM and the terminology began encircling their day-to-day conversations. Ethical, Consequence, Exchange, Penance, Prideful…reading all of these words now is a sting to the heart. I had no idea at the time what they meant and why my family was acting like robots. This closure is important to me. Thank you, Mark, for what you’re doing.
What happened to your family? When did they leave NXIVM, and why?
I’d answer you but not in the public comments, sorry.
Send it to firstname.lastname@example.org and I promise to not disclose it to others.
Vicente talked to Keith, expressing his concern and Keith said, “Well, she’s still getting her period.”
At one point, Keith said he was trying to break Allison.
And more 🙁
Sadness created and perpetuated.
Less food and sleep means less periods means less abortions means less overhead costs. Sounds very logical in NXIVM-land.
Jeffrey Epstein update, perhaps justice will be served, albeit late: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article230275434.html
Can Marie White give us a painting of Clare in a jock strap?
Allison Mack biggest insight thus far:
“There was discussion about Allison being promoted to Proctor. Vicente was concerned because he felt she was not stable. And the women she was mentoring were not doing well.”
I am kind of surprised that Vincete said under oath that he believed Allison Mack was unstable.
Vincete’s testimony will probably impact the judge’s decision making process when it comes time for sentencing.
When Allison Mack takes the stand if she puts on the acting show we all know she is capable of Raniere is fucked!
I have a feeling there may be some seriously dark sh*t coming out during Allison Mack’s testimony.
Vincenti’s testimony makes Allison look more like an unstable victim than a criminal. This could lessen her sentence.
Absolutely, that’s how i understood it too. He also state clearly how Raniere said he was trying to break her…this unstability (that she didn’t had before Nxivm) is clearly caused by the abuse
Mack had plenty of instability before NXIVM, remember her previous rock band boyfriend, with his “Will you marry me” tattoo on his chest?
Yep. And let’s not forget her marriage to Nicki Cline – if that wasn’t an illegal sham involving immigration fraud and perjury, then it was something very strange (no issue with same sex marriages, just what went on in NXIVM), and maybe even a mix of both.
True, but the question was before she became involved with NXIVM.
Outtakes from videos featuring the Smelly One, Albany Jesus
Uh……. During the photo shoot mentioned in the NYpost article link Keith Raniere acted as an ass and a pervert …..
How did Vincete not have his grand epiphany , sooner, during the video shoot?
It was probably interpreted as goofying around at the time and was not the only input Vicente had from Raniere. I could explain this to you on the radio show! LOL
Funny how it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize Keith Raniere is ugly. He is also evil. Too bad so many people, esp. women, we’re eager to trade their common sense for spending time in his presence. Vomitrocious!
The real danger in a lot of this was that actors in Vancouver who are often neurotic were recruited into the course despite not having their lives together and given positions of power to mess with other people psychologically. It’s quite ironic and sad. The lesson is if you don’t have your life together, then perhaps you shouldn’t be giving out advice or put into power positions over others to help them psychologically or with motivation. If you are put into that position and you don’t have your life together, then it’s probably a scam.
I find it ridiculous that Kristin Kreuk was still coaching intensives in Vancouver 2015 but lied and said she left two years earlier. She was filming a TV show in Toronto but still coached in Vancouver. Nobody said she left because she didn’t.
“Nobody said she left.” Nobody, really? Maybe you should read this article Frank posted last month https://frankreport.com/2019/04/22/three-former-high-rank-kristin-kreuk-left-nxivm-in-2013/ or maybe read these tweets from Sarah Edmondson, hopefully since you are on here, you at least know who she is, or how about Maja Miljkovic, one of the Vancouver actors on the founding “development team” for The Source
How about Susan Dones, ex Nx who ran the Washington center, who said, “Kristin left shortly after I left in 2009. She got out before it became really bizarre and wasn’t involved with anything sexual.”
2009, 2012, 2013… all from “sources”.
Go away sultan of sick. Cry some more. You’re in your fucking fifties.
How many people here have to tell you how silly your lame Sultan spotting is, before you realize he isn’t posting here anymore?
You Sultan stalkers are the lamest people on this site. Go away. Or go onto his twitter and actually debate him, pussy.
Go away spanky💩👳🏽♂️. Your autism is a hindrance.
IED—you are obsessed with Sultan, so go to his twitter and comment to him, not to us—there is no point insulting Sultan here when he hasn’t posted here for months.
You ARE “sultan” 😂
“Vicente has an immunity agreement with the government. As a result, anything he says that reveals he committed a crime won’t be used to prosecute him unless he fails to tell the truth.” Thanks for clarifying this situation, as I was reading tremendous crimes committed by Mark Vicente, like using an underage kid to alter evidence. Again, Vicente is not a hero.
In the other hand, Raniere is a beast, a monster. I feel sorrow for Clare and Mack.
“I feel sorrow for Clare and Mack.”
Clare and Mack sold their souls to the Devil and that is always a bad bargain.
Shut up, you are getting old with your stupid empty comment…you are a useless old man and you are getting grumpy because EVERYTHING you made up on Allison is shown not to be true…live with it.
Once the dust starts to settle after Raniere is sentenced I have a feeling we will find out what ex-Nxivm members really think about one another.
I get that the level one courses in NXIVM were pretty good, albeit highly plagiarized. But SOP was a giant waste of time and stupid as I was in it for a couple months. Watching the men of SOP flagellate themselves because they didn’t enroll enough people into the course was a source of laughter for some of us. Are there men still doing that? Lucas Roberts – I’m looking at you here.
What’s the big deal? You can buy these things on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Female-Ergonomic-Design-Protector-Jockstrap/dp/B07GCBF8J6/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=female+jock+strap&qid=1557788619&s=gateway&sr=8-4
At one point, Keith said he was trying to break Allison.
wow, that means all these things that told Frank about how KAR likes to break people and twist them and he seems to love doing it with those who resist the most, as if they were toys, that’s why he gets so upset when he They come out of their control but do everything they can to keep control over them, that reminds me of the story that was originally released in the comments section about the marriage of Allison Mack and Nicki Clyne, that person said that India Oxenberg would have served witness but above all made it clear that this action was made to have control over allison, and I remember the comments and the story of Frank about the different publications of allison in his Blog, twiter accounts, instagram where you could see an imbalance in the Allison’s mind was as if it were franting, while Nicki looked like an oak, I suppose at a subconscious level she was resisting but without becoming aware of which is the problem since his mind is programmed by KAR, Nancy and Lauren to accept and tolerate all the way downhill, but here is in his instagram a couple of clues about what was happening in the mind of allison at that time.
the words that he wrote are also very relevant especially in regards to nicki https://www.instagram.com/p/BW-Sg6vh9NY/
For all of Allison Mack’s blather about female empowerment, she knuckled under to a third rate huckster like Keith Raniere.
“while Nicki looked like anoak, ”
And I will say this much about Nicki Clyne.
Nicki posts here under various pseudonyms.
Legatus Pro Temp
I disagree with about 90% of what Nicki says.
But Nicki Clyne is a survivor and street smart.
When she had to, Nicki cut a deal and cooperated with the Feds and with the Salinas family.
Now Nicki will stay in the US and could have a prominent role if and when NXIVM is rebuilt.
Nicki sometimes acts goofy but there is an old trick where wise men act the fool to disarm their enemies.
Keith, Clare, Allison, Nancy, and Lauren are all going down.
And Nicki Clyne survives.
Study the example of the Roman Emperor Claudius also known as Claudius the Fool.
Claudius stuttered around while all of his stronger rivals killed each other and ultimately Claudius survived and became Emperor.
Claudius’ potential enemies did not see him as a serious threat. His survival led to his being declared emperor by the Praetorian Guard after Caligula’s assassination, at which point he was the last man of his family.
You do make some excellent historical parallels and analogies.
even when someone who REALLY know Allison show that she wasn’t as implicate and that she was abused by Raniere, you manage to turn it against her…Wow, tell us how you are not obsessed after that.
We don’t want the criminal enterprise NXIVM in any way, shape or form resurrected by Nikki or Barbara.
what that dumb instagram needed to say is that she’s dreaming of a pork chop
How old was Esther’s son when the seduction was to or did take place? Was this prior to or after the lad allegedly sexually assaulted some of the Rainbow Vulture Garden children? Hope they go there!
KAR ordering the edit of the girl on the seduction mission who was also being used to groom the DOS Slaves resonates.
There was a time or two when Gina started gearing up for her mission to India I noticed she was ducking out of any pics around KAR or NX headquarters � which she made a rendezvous place for my pick up and drop off after my (futile) computer courses nearby. Keith would always show up, coincidentally perhaps, to chat while I waited for her outside the place and once did an about-face when I happened to have a camera � back when such devices were more obvious than today.
If Mark’s testimony on that doesn’t reek of ill-intent toward the “fuck toys” being groomed for such secret seduction missions, IDK what does.
Thanks, Frank. You write like lightning!
“Vicente was concerned that India was becoming enamored with Allison Mack, like she was falling in love with her. He didn’t think it was healthy.”
India Oxenberg was Allison Mack’s personal sex slave.
Allison used the women. as sex slaves the same way Keith did.
Here are India and Allison Mack together miming smoking cigars.
that’s not allison you’re blind
You are really losing it, Shadow. Seeing Allison and India in a pic where they aren’t, and quoting a creationist website to refute climate change.
Stick to blaming liberals for all the world’s troubles. Lots of like-minded “thinkers” here.
Ever here of women wearing wigs?
Women wear wigs from time to time.
We don’t know whether it’s Mack or not, the cankles aren’t shown.
Thats clearly not Allison
shadow, you trust more in a website, about celebrities of dubious reputation according to google and that only publishes click baits, because you do not trust more in your own eyes, that girl is NOT allison mack, she is not wearing a wig and allison is not I wore wigs unless I was in a performance and I do not know any picture of her with a wig, besides her skin color is more tan than that of India and she is of the same skin tone as allison, and allison is of the same height that his mother catherine and in the photo the girl with dark hair is noted that is lower than India
get help and once again, be REAL careful about the lies you tell, i’m looking at your every word and it wasn’t an empty promise.
You go too far, i’ll make sure authorities take care of you!
Trial is on and what you are trying to do is way more severely punished.
She wasn’t Allison Sex slave you moron , she was at best slave and that’s it.
Shadow, Don’t think you’ll get out of this, you push too far your defamation and the authorities will definately take care of your ass.
BTW i consign everything you post against the Truth so Don’t even ask for Frank to delete anything.
Stop your defamation and stick with the Truth …low lifer!
Sympathy for Allison Mack…..
It’s hard not to have some sympathy for Allison Mack after reading the following sentence from Vicente’s testimony:
“At one point, Keith said he was trying to break Allison”.
Raniere spelled it out to Vicente what he was attempting to do to Allison Mack.
“Sympathy for Allison Mack…..
It’s hard not to have some sympathy for Allison Mack after reading the following sentence from Vicente’s testimony:”
People choose to be either victims or survivors.
Most women I know would be out the door in a New York Minute.
I wouldn’t give too much credence to a quote from Vicente, a guy who didn’t go “out the door” for a dozen New York years!
Vincete has a prosecution deal if he lies deal off. He is not lying about something so dumb with no benefit to himself.
Nicegoy, you misread my comment.
Vincente’s statement was neither a lie nor the truth. It was an opinion–but a ridiculous one–that women would have left in a minute, said by a guy who stayed for 12 years.
The “New York Minute” comment was from Mr. Shadow, not Vicente.
I agree in part with you. You are right most people would have been out the door.
I believe Allison Mack like anyone else who breaks the law should be held accountable.
I stated “some sympathy”. She should still face justice just like you or I would if we broke the law.
Is Allison Mack public enemy number one?
“Is Allison Mack public enemy number one?”
Mack is Public Enemy #1 to the women she branded with a hot iron.
Mack is Public Enemy #1 to the women she collected blackmail photos and videos from.
And Allison will be held accountable.
But i’d like to point that some of those who had the power (Vicente clearly said that Allison wasn’t an executive and wasn’t even a trusted member…she was just a tool for Raniere who even tried to destroy her) are not even worried by the crimes.
Allison was just a small tiny pawn, a nobody to this cult. She was actually abused to reach this situation.
At the same time, we read that she’ll get the same sentencing as Lauren who was HEAVILY implicate (receiving important Financial return from it)
How is it fair?
How is it fair that some of those (like Monica) who did the same as Allison are not on the stand?
How is it fair that in the end, Nancy will get less (while it’s clearly showed how implicate she was!)?
How is it fair that a lot of the real predator of the cult (along with Raniere) get a free pass ?
Niceguy, you shouldn’t justify to Shadow about having sympathy.
He is convinced that she was the big master of the cult and even with everything showing that she wasn’t even trusted He’ll continue to be sickly against her.
He plays the white knight (virtuous,defending victims) but he give no crap about the victims or anyone, he just want to destroy Allison…
shadow – You sure have a lot to say about something you admittedly can’t relate to. Maybe you need more women in your life. Or any women to help you understand that it’s possible for to a combination of victim & survivor.
If women want equal rights, then they must exercise responsibilities for their actions.
Women can not be both adults and children.
Nutjob, why do you exercise so much concern for a woman who abused other women and no concern for the women she victimized?
She was also victimized. I have concern and empathy for all of them.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Are you so virtuous?
You really need help and stop acting like you never did anything wrong because seeing the kind of asshole you are here, you certainly show how you never did anything right.
It’s not that simple. We recognize that the very young, as well as the very old, can’t necessarily choose. In between, we recognize the adults with various impediments or impairments, aren’t entirely able to chose freely or wisely, either. And we recognize that in situations such as abusive domestic situations or high-pressure sales (where there’s often a 72 hour cancellation period required by law), people may not be in a situation to make good choices. And that’s not even getting into the nuances of undue influence, which the law recognizes – particularly, though not exclusively, in regards to some of the aforementioned situations – or some of the more difficult areas, typified by Stockholm Syndrome, that we’re still grappling with.
And even if it’s “most” of the women you know, what about the others? Remember, the women in Raniere’s inner circle weren’t exactly a random sampling, they were a tiny number winnowed out of the relatively select thousands who passed through NXIVM’s programs in the first place.
You know women ? Well, sorry , you probably do but i doubt they know you…
They didn’t choose, you would usually support (for a long time) that india was a victim Under some form of spell but when it’s about Allison, nope.
She was Under the same spell and that spell include COERCION.
You Don’t Always choose. they entered without the worries of being coerced.
It was said (yesterday , i think) that collateral was pretty much Something since the beginning and would be collected regularly (on anyone).
Easy to become a victim without knowing.
You Don’t Always have the choice, We are talking about Raniere, Mr manipulation.
Well now it’s time for Karma to break Keith.
Generally, it’s interesting to see that while Raniere managed the trick of being misogynistic while attracting a female following and even acquiring a harem, some saw through his attitude towards women. Given that, according to accounts, Allison Mack didn’t really like other women, I wonder if that dynamic made them a good pair of sorts in running DOS, and subjecting its members to cruelties and abuses.
Joe Bruno is a Republican, which may finally provide a clue as to why the Bronfmans made their biggest donations to the NYS Senate Republican Campaign Fund. The real question is, what influence were they hoping to get – or did they succeed in getting? According to Wikipedia:
“Bruno served in the New York State Senate from 1977 to 2008, and was Senate Majority Leader from 1994 to 2008. Bruno was convicted of federal corruption charges in 2009, but his conviction was overturned on appeal and a subsequent retrial resulted in an acquittal.
On January 23, 2009, Bruno was indicted on eight federal corruption charges, including mail and wire fraud. The indictment alleged that between 1993 and 2006, Bruno was paid $3.2 million in consulting fees to use his position to do favors for entities with business before the state.”
That $3.2M amount to about $250K per year – nice work if you can get it, and I wonder if NXIVM and the Bronfmans were among his direct clients, too.
The Bronfman brats allowed Bruno to use their private jet to fly to/from various meetings and events. And Nancy provided good old Joe with special EMs and masseuses from NXIVM to give him naked massages. NXIVM had all sorts of shit on Bruno and he helped them avoid prosecution in the Capital District for years.
If Nancy is questioned under oath, I think she’ll confirm all of this. If that doesn’t happen, there are others that can confirm these facts.
I’d REALLY like to see the politicians and law enforcement officials that aided Nx to be charged and convicted…but I don’t have much hope of this happening.
Any chance we’ll be seeing some compromising pics of Bruno putting our tax dollars to work?
Bruno solves the mystery up to ’09 but which guardian devil in the evil Empire State masqued NX criminal acts from then on?
Albany DA David Soares has been mentioned…but not the comely, young freckle-faced goddess who interned in his office on NX matters.
“Given that, according to accounts, Allison Mack didn’t really like other women, I wonder if that dynamic made them a good pair of sorts in running DOS, and subjecting its members to cruelties and abuses.”
I believe the shared misogyny of Raniere and Mack was a very important part of the dynamic.
Pam Cafritz ran the cult for years and there was never as brutal a result as the branding and blackmailings of NXIVM
Pam Cafritz was somehow a brake on Raniere’s worst misogynistic impulses.
“Given that Allison Mack reportedly did not really like other women, I wonder if that dynamic made them a good pair of guys to run DOS and subject their members to cruelty and abuse.”
So far I have not read any report of Frank saying that she “did not like other women” I have not read any other media publication that used credible sources as friends who knew her before NXIVM, in fact, if she did not like other women like Kristen Kreuk became her best friend on the set of Smallville, or her good relationship with Erica Durance and Annette O’Toole, and what about her old friend Christine Lakin or the fact that one of the groups of NXIVM that I was most involved in was jness.
Allison Mack likes other women so much that she had a hot iron pressed into their flesh burning a permanent mark that will never go away.
Allison Mack is a fiend taken from an Edgar Allan Poe story.
Shut up, old man…She didn’t do it and it’s now a known fact that she had nothing to do with the branding (not the idea, not the origin, not the initial and certainly not the action itself)
It’s not a “a known fact that she had nothing to do with the branding” – what’s your source for that?
Any way you look at it, she had a lot to do with the branding – she oversaw it as chief mistress of DOS, and even took credit publicly for coming up with the idea. Possibly she was a victim of something like Stockholm Syndrome and carrying out things under undue influence, including even agreeing to publicly take the fall for something that wasn’t actually her idea, but you’d actually have to make a case for such a complex theory – with evidence and testimony.
You are reading the 2 biggest morons and liar from this site, they hate (for no Reason) Allison.
Don’t expect anything else but lies from Mr know it all or shadow clown.
Some of us are rightfully suspicious that Mack oversaw the branding of dozens of women, often under situations of deception and duress – and then publicly took credit for coming up with such a hardcore idea. At best, there’s something wrong with her that she went so far for Raniere, when so many other women including friends of hers had left as things got more bizarre.
I know that I’ve seen here more than once, reference to Mack at least being distrustful of other women, and I’m pretty sure with the implication of more animus than just that. But I can’t readily find any of those to cite, and it may not be well sourced. I should have said something more qualified like “given reports that…”
And as Shadow pointed out earlier, below, the way Mack treated the DOS slaves under her also suggests some animus towards other women. But that’s one of the things I hope we will come to better understand, whether Mack had something like a sadistic streak of her own that came out, or whether Raniere somehow got her to do things that ran completely against her nature – shades of the Stanford Prison Experiment, perhaps.
It’s possible Pam was a brake or Raniere’s sadism and ego grew out of control.
Very possible, if not probable.
Possible she was given white, milky liquid as a way for Keith to release the brake.
The phrase ‘glutton for punishment’ comes to mind. Masochistic pleasure in being mistreated. A man with no morals, with a harem of weak-willed women prostrating themselves before him, desperate for his approval. What an ugly tale.
Part of the attraction– sick attraction– may have been simply that so many other people worshipped KAR. Fooling the first half-dozen people is against the odds, but once that is done, this utterly unremarkable little man would suddenly seem attractive. As the pool of gullible fools grow, the task becomes easier. Part luck, partly a gift for manipulating people.
Honestly, I have no respect for Raniere’s abused followers, They chose their path and many of them stuck with him to the bitter end. It’s ultimately their fault that their lives were ruined. This in no way reduces Raniere’s guilt of course.
There’s something almost comically ironic in Allison Mack, professed champion of female empowerment, debasing herself for this poster boy for misogyny. Being told to lose weight and obediently starving herself, being told to not talk back to her man, to never question him. What body hair she’s allowed to shave. His monitoring her cycle. Being told he can sleep with as many women as he likes, while she’s his property exclusively. What a fool. Her and all his women– what spineless jellyfish.
All of the progress women have accomplished over the last 100 years has been undone by this Sisterhood of Masochists.
Shadowstate reality Check.!!!!!!!
Um….Shadowstate you are making a blanket statement based on the actions of less than 250 women.
There are millions of women in the United States. Raniere sifted through thousands of women to find the most vulnerable ones.
There were also quite a few men in Nxivm.
Shadowstate you can not draw a scientific conclusion based on the actions of 250 coerced women.
Here is an example:
There are more men in prison in the United States both in whole numbers and by percentage of the population than women.
Are all men criminals? Shadowstate your observation is more ridiculous than stating: all men are criminals.
Dude – stop reading shadow’s shit. Trust me, it will give you back the gift of time, stop you from banging your head against your wife’s file cabinets, make Frank Report more enjoyable, and help save your soul. The only downside is to the vigilante in you, because you’ll be leaving it up to others to call out his bullshit.
What? They cancelled the vote for women? Because of A.Mack? Nobody told me.
That’s coming next, after Roe v. Wade is overturned. Even Trump can only do so much at one time.
Who’d known that wearing a jock strap would be the closest thing to be an Olympic athlete Clare Bronfman would ever get under the coaching expertise of the great and power Grandmaster Keith Raniere.
Actually, she was very successful in the equestrian world. She gave up that success to follow the odious KR. She gave up success to be humiliated into wearing a jock strap, and to waste her inheritance harassing and terrorizing people Keith decided were enemies. She had some talent with horses and could afford the best horses. Instead, she pissed away a chunk of her fortune and her LIFE following an evil troll like KR.
Bronfman wasn’t very successful. What was her highest rank and/or greatest achievement?
True Scott, without her money, she’d have got nowhere anyhow. No self-respecting stable would have taken her on for training. Too lanky and cross for a good jockey.
Scott, I’ve posted before that she was ranked in the top 100 riders in the world – though apparently that didn’t mean much by your elevated standards.
A search shows that Bronfman even did fairly well at championship trials for the Olympics in 2004, placing 23rd in the competition for a spot on a team that I think has 22 members:
Wiki says she was 80th in the world, but a citation is needed. There are 12 riders, so she missed it by a bunch: https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2016/06/29/usa-olympic-equestrian-team-roster-rio/ If she was so good, her money should have bought her a better horse and more wins.
“And, so what would happen at V Week?” the prosecutor inquired”
Sylvie told of all the activities but never mentioned the word “sex”…under oath.
Were all the comments on the V-Week orgy just more salacious bs?
It’s obvious that Raniere is an ethical and smart man. After all, he was concerned there were so many abortions, so it was much better to starve the women and get rid of their periods. How ethical and smart!
The hyper-respect Raniere demanded was learned when he was in Amway. There, it’s called upline edification.
Clare Bear was ordered to wear a JOCK STRAP? The question is – did she do it???
Also, on top of her clothes or underneath?
It takes quite a lot of brains (actually not really) to pay some smelly, short, hairy dude $65 Million, so he can order you to wear a jockstrap.
How stupid are you Bronfman sisters anyways?
65 million, dude, that is chicken shit of what Clare has lost to this dude. She lost more than that just in the commodities market.
There was the 25++ million in the Precision development real estate debacle in Los Angeles she lost. Plus the 11++ million in the lawsuit in that case.
How much did Clare spend in the 14-year legal battle with Rick Ross?
How much did she spend in the legal battles with Toni Natalie, the longest hunted by Keith Raniere?
How much did Clare Bronfman spend on legal cases with Joe O’Hara, Susan Dones, Barbara Bouchey, Sarah Edmonson?
How about NXIVM legal team? How much of their paychecks did she cover?
How about all of Raniere’s hair brained ideas? How much money did Clare spend on those?
Let’s not forget the NXIVM legal defense fund. We know the 10 million she put in.
Private jets, private islands and private villas.
Now she has a six million dollar fine plus restitution, civil suit hanging over her head and possibly additional charges in the NDNY that were never filed in the EDNY.
Clare Bear should have stayed with jumping her ponies.
Clare’s not the sharpest tool in the shed apparently.
When you didn’t earn a penny of the hundreds of millions of dollars you cane to possess, it becomes like monopoly money for people who are lacking something up there. We’ve seen this phenomenon with Lotto winners. The only thing that counteracted this tendency in Clare was her Jewish heritage and their generally wise economy with money.
The ironic thing is, VanICanSpendItBetterThanYouCan, while criticizing Clare for having a silver spoon in her mouth in not understanding the hard work it takes to amass such value, burned through it like monopoly money because he also put zero effort into earning it – though we all know he conned others into making her and others believe they were giving him tribute while laughing under his breath.
Not the sharpest tool in the shed.
The island is an excellent investment provided the private islands in that neck of the woods are never Nationalized.
Fiji is no paradise of soft lands, have you ever experienced a Haka?
The $65 million was the commodities losses.
One really has to wonder – though sometimes smart people do stupid things.
Clara and Sarah’s mother was their father’s third, and fourth (they divorced and remarried) wife, was reportedly a barmaid when they met, and ended up finally divorced from him by the time the girls were young teens. I’ve seen this happen before, rich men marry later socialite trophy wives who aren’t exactly the sharpest tools in the shed, and the children of those later families end up mostly raised by nannies and at luxury boarding schools, and not only don’t acquire any of their father’s abilities, but end up with the psychological burdens of abandoned children – much the same as happens to some of the most impoverished kids.