By One Night in Bangkok
This whole topic of the “Legal Trust” running dry, while certainly interesting and worthy of Frank’s commentary, is mostly just a NOTHING BURGER that won’t impact any of the main lawyers.
Nobody’s gonna have to take a pay cut.
Firstly, Clare does NOT have every penny of her estate inside a “trust” that bars her from spending it on legal fees. She only has $100 million in such a trust.
Clare has other assets that can be used to easily borrow $15 million cash if need be. Even using her own statements made to the court, her total net worth is over $200 million, not $100 million.
Even if the judge ‘bans’ Clare from using her own money to refill the trust’s coffers once it runs dry, there’s no law against a third party (like Sara Bronfman-Igtet from Europe) creating a new “irrevocable” trust to pay these same lawyers in the future.
Even if the judge were to legally “ban” Sara Bronfman from paying any lawyers (which I don’t think he can since she’s not a defendant), she could simply find another third party to create an irrevocable trust using funds which she could give him or her.
If not Sara, then some other person from outside the US could create a trust to reimburse these lawyers.
In fact, they don’t even need to officially create another “trust” to pay anybody. A wealthy NXIVM benefactor could simply whisper a private “verbal guarantee” that they’ll reimburse all legal expenses AFTER the trial is over.
I suppose the judge could require any such private whispers to be made known to him, but I don’t see how he can enforce that.
Kinda like the Cuban Missile Crisis, where Kennedy whispered a private promise to get rid of the missiles in Turkey six months after the crisis is over. LOL.
These lawyers are likely getting paid one way or another, in my opinion.
If not now, then certainly after the trial is over.
NXIVM personnel trust their benefactors to stand by them.
Yesterday I swear I read a comment on this thread made by “Smith” that made some sense of, mitigated, this Bang Cocky blather. What happened to Smith’s comment?
Bangkok, here in the United States attorneys are expected to represent their clients interests not the interests of whomever is paying them.
Your reassurances here to (other) defense counsel — some of whom already appear to be acting against the interests of their clients in favor of protecting the “payers” — that they will be fully paid by secret sources nonetheless related to Clare Bronfman is highly circumspect and reinforces concerns already raised by the Court over these conflict of interest issues.
I agree that the money can be gotten from or funneled through an uninvolved third party. I think the Judge is just trying to assure that the other Defendants receive unbiased representation. The idea of one Defendant funding a co-Defendant’s defense, when they are likely to be adverse to each other as opposed to aligned, is problematic.
I, for one, what them all to have the BEST representation, and still go down in flames. I really do hope one or more makes a deal and turns against the others – we would get some very interesting testimony.
A side question – could fear of the Mexican power brokers involved be discouraging them from turning?
“Fear” is a key control tool of this pyramid crime syndicate, true Orange.
While the DOS slaves endured the raw, searing pain of their branding, they were shouted at to “think of your master, think of your master!” — to associate that intense pain with the power their “master” wields over them to induce it again should they disobey, IMO.
I expect that fear association would then, as designed, travel “up line” to the masters above the masters no matter who they are.
I agree the fact that those ultimate masters hail from some of the most reputedly powerful and cutthroat criminal families in modern history, worldwide, the Bronfman’s and Salinas’, must be terrifying to many.
Out of all the cruel, toxic bullshit Bang Cocky has stunk this place up with under all of he-she-its myriad pseudonyms, I must say I find this post to be the most potentially harmful to NX victims in particular and, therefore, the most offensive.
Now, Cocky would have us believe there’s nothing amiss with this case that a cool, easy 20 million or so more doled out in legal fees can’t fix. Knowing GOD DAMN WELL that’s NOT the problem and NO AMOUNT of money is going to fix it!
The problem is that there is an ACTUAL CONFLICT of interest because the money is being misused to “protect” (NOT) certain favored defendants by preventing less favored witness/defendants from testifying against the favored defendants who are funding, “controlling” the defense litigation.
The problem is that this defense strategy will not ultimately, in fact, protect ANYONE who is guilty but may, only, impugn those who may be less guilty than their silence or invocation of their 5th Amendment right to remain silent BECAUSE the TRUTH may “INCRIMINATE ME” presupposes.
EXHIBIT A: Kathy Russell – took the 5th – Grand Jury Indicted
EXHIBIT B: Jane Doe witnesss who told Bronfman paid attorney who demanded she take the 5th to “fuck off” and cooperated with investigators sans attorney – Not indicted.
So, you know what, Bang Cocky, “go back to your bars, your temples,” your Mexico’s dick and suck harder to make good on your promise here to pay your legal “comrades” to fuck over the Kathy Russells and Jim Del Negros and Allison Macks, all your little, powerless pawns, but your Queen is off the board and much as you suck, you’re still in check, mate.
If my name were Salinas and my family had billions of dollars in assets, the best way to avoid indictment is to help the American NXIVM defendants to win.
Maybe not. Let Raniere & Co. take the fall, and perhaps the Feds will be satisfied.
Not only do I agree with Scott, but I think that’s what’s going down. “Keep Carlos- errrr the Mexicans out of this and Vanguard is yours.” A deal has been made. Everyone wins. Except for Keith.
For once Scooter may be correct. Obviously the Trump DOJ had an agreement to bring Raniere back to the US to begin with. So some higher ups in Mexico were more than willing to cooperate. However, as the extent of human trafficking is realized, all bets are off.
Including Keith’s family and co-defendants – the only people on the planet opposed to Keith getting dealt the “taking the fall” hand (he so carefully fixed for others) – could be single digits.
I asked my ex about your comment here, Anon, because he’s actually worked with Carlos Slim Helu’ — Emiliano’s father’s closest Mexican business associate.
Jeff’s opinion was that Slim would not get involved through back channels or otherwise, that he and his associates are FAR too cunning and wise as to put a peso in the palms of any attorney who does not directly and solely, officially represent their personal interests.
I do detect that Bangkok and others are floating this notion that Mexican elite or other powerful, plentiful resources can be relied on to “win” this case for all defendants in, perhaps, further vain efforts to influence witnesses and even defense counsel now that the well’s about run dry. I believe it’s as much a lie as the proposition that a “win” for the defense is possible at all in view of the overwhelming evidence and testimony already given (apparently) against them all.
On top of the stats that the Feds only lose 3% of their cases —including those where defendants are, unlike NX, actually innocent.
The points raised in this post simply illustrate the fact legal funds don’t need to come from a single source. These points do not demonstrate someone is willing or able to actually provide funds. High Net Worth individuals generally find it’s against their interests to pay for the defense of pedophiles, white slavers, human traffickers, and monsters the likes of NXIVM.
It’s far more likely all of the defendants except Claire will be represented by a public defender. Just remember, if it comes to this, most of the accused will have no way to afford expert witnesses to challenge the claims made by the government. DOJ has about a 95% conviction rate in cases like this against people with excellent counsel and the means to challenge every part of the government’s case.
The judge will want a complete picture of how attorneys are being paid before settling the issue. The fact that the trust is the existing source of funds for the legal defense of this crew, and that the trust is funded by one of the Defendants, raises many problems that must be settled to ensure everyone receives a fair trial.
In all honesty, the only person who can spend another $20 million or so on the defense is Claire. Any other source would be putting themselves at risk of reputational loss based on the nature and seriousness of the charges.
Don’t count on it, bad guys don’t generally throw good money after bad money.