By A Reader
Frank is just not objective when it comes to Keith.
For instance, Frank sees Keith as so evil that ANY negative allegation made against Keith — by ANY source — is automatically reported by Frank as being either true or at least somewhat credible.
For example, you have the nutty Toni Natalie using the hashtag “#justiceforkristinsnyder” every place on Earth, including as the very first “anonymous” Amazon review for Catherine Oxenberg’s new book. Yeah, everybody knows it’s you, Toni.
Toni has implied that Kristin Snyder must have been killed by Keith or Keith’s minions. However, even Kristin’s own parents have confirmed that she was BATSHIT CRAZY in the days before her SUICIDE. She claimed to have been responsible for the NASA space shuttle explosion. She also wrote a suicide note in her own handwriting.
This means Kristin Snyder was a BATSHIT CRAZY woman who SUICIDED HERSELF one day.
Keith was not responsible for that. Just because Keith may have dumped her shortly before the suicide or she was pregnant with his child, it doesn’t mean he’s responsible. Kristin was just too weak minded to keep going. It was HER OWN FAULT. Period. Toni hates Keith so much that I have no doubt she’d pin the Kennedy Assassination on him if given the chance. Toni is not objective.
I can see Frank’s next headline: “Raniere tied to JFK death? Inside sources tell me it might be so.”
Frank continues to report the Kristin Snyder story as though Keith is a serious suspect and that law enforcement should somehow re-open the investigation.
Re-open what exactly, Frankie boy?
How the fuck can Law Enforcement do anything when Kristin fucking SUICIDED HERSELF and was BATSHIT CRAZY even according to her parents?
Then there’s the tragic story of Gina Hutchinson.
Again, Frank implies that Gina’s suicide was somehow Keith’s fault and that Keith is evil and responsible for Gina’s suicide.
But it wasn’t Keith’s fault.
I have no doubt that Keith dumped her and probably made her feel depressed, and that’s certainly not a nice thing to do. However, women get dumped every day and don’t SUICIDE THEMSELVES for it.
Gina apparently had no life and nothing to live for outside of her beloved Keith; thus when he dumped her, she had no reasons to live anymore.
Look Frank, it doesn’t matter if Gina killed herself minutes or hours after visiting with Keith in a hotel or wherever.
The only thing that matters is that Gina pulled out a gun and SUICIDED HERSELF.
You can’t blame Keith for Gina’s lack of self-esteem and family support, which led her to feel so depressed that she killed herself.
If Gina’s sister had truly been closer and more supportive of Gina, then MAYBE she wouldn’t have felt the only way out of her misery was to kill herself.
As for the cognitive dissonance bullshit mentioned by her sister, look, Gina bought a gun because she was depressed and her life was shit. After seeing Keith in a hotel or wherever, she obviously got dumped and suicided herself. It’s tragic but it’s not Keith’s fault.
I’m tired of Frank blaming Keith for EVERYTHING bad that happens to anybody around him. Keith was not responsible for Kristin Snyder’s suicide or Gina Hutchinson’s suicide.
Stop listening to Toni’s bullshit. I’m even doubting the alleged Mexico kidnapping plan she keeps harping about. I seriously doubt Keith had any such plans. But Toni needs material for her new book so I have no doubt she’ll be telling lots of whoppers.
Fan fiction such as this makes me wish for long, essentially life sentences for these evil turds.
If Kristen’s family or Gina’s family really did believe Keith/Nxivm were responsible for their suicides, they could have sued nxivm for liability. It’s very tough to prove legal liability in a suicide case, but it has been done.
Neither family sued at the time, Does that mean the families didnt believe Nxivm was responsible, or that they would be unable to prove that they were responsible?
If there were previous mental health issues (as some here are suggesting was the case with Kristen) it would likely be impossible to prove.
Why does Toni Natale keep talking about “Justice for Kristen Snyder?” Does she think Kristen was actually murdered, and that the suicide story was a cover up? If that were the case, it would be up to the police to reopen the investigation, or for Kristen’s family to hire a private investigator if the police refuse to reopen it.
I dont think posting hashtags will do anything to bring justice to anyone. The only thing that could do that would be a thorough investigation.
It means they don’t have enough evidence nor the money to go after the Bronfmans’ deep pockets.
Scott, those women committed suicide prior to the Bronfmans joining NXIVM.
If the families of these women didn’t sue NXIVM, it could be because they were satisfied, at the time, that the deaths were suicides.
If they believe there is now evidence to suggest otherwise, the families will need to either file a civil suit or convince law enforcement to reopen the investigation. The fact is, nothing will be accomplished by just writing hashtags about it.
Keith didn’t have to hold Kristen under the water to be responsible, his phony ESP and his self proclaimed ability to cure lesbians, as she herself wrote they caused her harm during the 16 day intensive. Even an idiot like Keith would know that someone who had a history with mental health issues was not going to react well to the brainwashing course. Was she pregnant with Keith’s child? We will never know as her body never reappeared.
Gina Hutchinson. We all know Keith lied and told each woman in his life she was the most important, even the one and only. When you start your techniques on a 14 year old, it’s illegal for a good reason. We will never know what he convinced her was in her future with him I’m sure she was instructed to keep it quiet. Again a brainwashed, underfed, woman with little sleep could be extremely susceptible to Raineres bag of tricks. He can be responsible wether he pulled the trigger or not. He could have even murdered both women with help.. Kirsten had written suicide notes before and not killed herself. Fortunately for Nxivm the Alaska police dept fell asleep on the job. Regardless Keith has at least some responsibility for these deaths. Who is he talking about on his famous tape, that he’s killed to protect himself and others? Let’s hope these questions do get answered.
I think that is the absolutely lowest of the low as the trolling goes. Insulting women, who aren’t alive to defend themselves, and their families who have suffered such a terrible loss.
Monday morning quarterbacking them is incredibly ignorant, and just as bad.
I do not believe any decent human being would do such a thing.
Not sure who you’re replying to….
I hope no one is trying to twist my words around.
The truth is no one here, except the families of the women who committed suicide, know their real stories. No one but the families are going to get them justice, if they believe Keith/NXIVM was in some way responsible for their deaths.
Hashtags won’t persuade police to reopen a case. What is written here won’t reopen the case, either.
If the families believe there is now new information, or that the original investigations were not done properly, they will need to take action themselves.
Decent human being, you say? 🙂
…Says the girl who initially visited this site just to ‘brag’ that she took Keith Raniere up on his pretty girl scholarship while letting him degrade women by staring at them during class. LOL.
Yeah, you sound like a real virtuous human being.
Likewise, I’m sure you supported Ted Kennedy for high office even after killing a woman and leaving her for dead in his car without calling for help until hours later.
While you probably hate Trump for merely making a few lewd private comments about grabbing a woman’s pussy. LOL.
Yeah, that makes a lot of logical sense… In your mind, lewd private comments are WORSE than killing a woman and leaving her soaking underwater for hours. LOL.
Sounds like you don’t really have the moral compass necessary to understand what a decent human being really is.
Your parents must not have taught you that killing a woman is worse than making lewd comments.
Now how about raising those 2 soon-to-be hatchlings with a better moral compass than the one mama passed onto you?
Still as sick as always, I see. It’s too bad. Your life is only going to continue to get more miserable the longer you continue this behaviour, and then it will be too late. Get well.
Who are you talking to now?
If you are implying I wrote the post about you, you are incorrect (as always)
Please seek help for your paranoia, d your mental health will only deteriorate with the sleep deprivation that always occurs when you have a new baby.
*And Frank can verify I did not write that post. Email him in private , if you dont believe me.
Vanguard is never responsible for anything.
Quite a high suicide rate for a group as small as NXVIM.
Toni had her dog killed by Keith. This is not disputed and has been confirmed by Kristin Keefe.
I’d bet you my 401K that Keith is behind the “suicide” of Toni’s brother.
I’d trust what Toni says about Keith over everyone else who’s ever posted on FR, combined. She saw Keith’s act first hand for years, and is still dealing with his wrath.
Perhaps Raniere considers a dog a person, which would explain the “I’ve had people killed” statement.
Legal responsibility and logical responsibility are often two different things. Raniere is logically responsible for causing lots of problems, including these suicides. Whether he is legally responsible is what the trial is all about. I think there are plenty of other crimes that will be much easier to prove against Raniere and other NXIVM sycophants in a court of law.
Where to begin with this. A man responsible for the destruction of so many lives because thats what cults do – they destroy lives. A man who attempted to build an MLM of female slaves, ‘fuck-toys’ to feed his narcissistic appetite for power, A tax evading, money laundering, slave driving pedophile, who incarcerated one woman because she would not join the harem, forced several into hiding, bankrupted hounded and traumatised several others, saw any who managed to live to late middle age die of cancer, who also just happened to experience two of the women that fell into his remit, commit suicide, could not be complicit because:
“Frank blames Raniere for everything, and Toni Nathalie would blame Keith for everything including the death of JFK?”
Thats some serious koolaid you are sucking on there. Toni Nathalie is not objective? Heidi hutchinson should have ‘saved’ her sister?
Your defence of Raniere is feeble. Which is all a defence of Raniere could be. He is going down for a long time maybe even life, because he destroyed lives. Its as objectively simple as that.
Very well said indeed – the whole, sorry thing in a nutshell.
was i being too critical of Frank? Was that why my comment was deleted?
Are you referring to the comment below? Sometimes there’s a delay.
I don’t agree entirely but appreciate the honesty in your POV and the authenticity of your anger. The influence we have over each other is complicated and nothing is ever as black/white or good/evil and tidy as we’d like it to be. And when strangers publicly declare themselves experts on something they don’t have true insight or context into – I’d be pissed too. But your comment show’s that you’ve got perspective and you aren’t like Pea (if Pea isn’t a troll). You know that this NXIVM thing may of been helpful for awhile but isn’t what you thought it was. Frank gets carried away a bit, he’s got to feed the appetite of this massive FrankReport audience he’s built. But given the reality of the hard news and the distance you’ve had from the group of late – you know his overall mission and message is infuriatingly right.
‘And when strangers publicly declare themselves experts on something they don’t have true insight or context into – I’d be pissed too.’
I wouldn’t class Frank or any of the ex-nx who contribute information on this site as ‘Strangers’ to the nxivm story, relative to me and I’m guessing you, these accounts from named individuals are all that was necessary to bring this cult to its knees, and all we have to go on. Im certain that the information Frank has provided is true because it is clearly ratified by the ensuing investigation, and subsequent arrests.
I await the findings of the prosecution with interest, and won’t be surprised to discover that the situation is every bit as awful as our inside intelligence has claimed, if not far worse. Im sorry to hear that this state of affairs (Raniere et al’s guilt) is ‘infuriatingly right’ to you. I guess it means, like the author of this vague and feeble apology, that you wish it were not the case? If only wishing made a thing thus and so.
Oh goodness – I 100% agree with you. Just trying to be empathetic to this person who may be struggling to come to grips that their life as they knew it was a giant sham led by a sex-crazed sociopath. They may not have been part of the inner circle and did nothing wrong outside of spending a fortune on bs tech from a cult that conducted itself in the exact opposite of its “ethical” credo. It’s natural to lash out at the individual(s) that exposed the con and be angry. But it’s clear that this person is not like Monte Blu or Pea.
you are good and right to be empathetic to someone you think may be suffering, thats what i feel for TN and HH. do think this person is reaching when they have to smear targets/victims of raniere’s cult in order to ‘defend’ him though.
Please explain Keith saying on video that he has had people killed for his beliefs. Who was killed and when??
The “I’ve had people killed” quote has been taken out of context. Raniere did NOT claim that he has directed someone to kill people. I suggest you watch the video again and pay attention to the context of what was being said before and after those words.
It hasn’t been taken out of context. He said “I’ve had people killed for my beliefs”.
He didn’t say “people have been killed for my beliefs” or “people have died for my beliefs” to leave it more dubious.
He made it a point and said, “I’VE HAD PEOPLE KILLED for my beliefs”.
Read that over and over again. He’s the subject. People is the object of the verb. And killed is the verb most likely enacted by someone other than himself to do it for him.
He either used English grammar wrong – hard to believe for one of the smartest men in the world! – or he actually was making an indirect threat.
Scott – I can promise you, Keith meant that he has had people killed. I heard him say the same thing a minimum of two other times. The only question is if he really has had people killed, or if it was the pussy’s way of trying to get people to respect/fear him. When I heard him say it, I assumed he was trying to get us to fear him/fall in line. But he said it as fact and wanted us to believe it as fact.
I’m not going to argue with somebody who claimed they were present multiple times when Raniere said it, but both of you have focused only on the statement and not what was being said before and after the statement to put it in context. Until you can do that and come to the same conclusion, I’m not buying it.
This was always Keith’s context: “I (and maybe we) are here to SAVE THE WORLD. I am perfectly ethical and congruent. I know what’s right and what’s wrong. I do what needs to be done. I’ve even had people killed because they were bad people who were getting in my way.”
I’m not remotely saying that him saying this is proof he’s had people killed. I’m saying -at a minimum- he wanted people to think that he’d kill you if he needed to. All in the name of ethics.
This is not out of context and the statement stands on its own; “I’ve had people killed for my beliefs” When someone makes a statement like this, they are telling you the truth.
Would a person lie and make an admission of killing someone on a live video?
Forensic psychologist will tell you murderers have a need to tell someone of their crime
The book Crime and Punishment deals with this topic.
Having worked in a DA Office I have seen this time and again.
Keith is telling us he has had others murder for him.
My understanding is he poisoned Toni’s dog had her put it in the freezer and made her look at it everyday. People that murder many times start with cruelty to animals which then escalates to murdering humans.
Keith has also murdered very young girls by pedophilia. The effects are lifelong trauma they live with everyday for the rest of their lives.
Lastly, he has murdered women’s psyches with his BS tech that is simply bits and pieces stolen from many other programs
This excuse for a human called Keith is a menace and should remain incarcerated for the rest of his days.
You have again failed to explain the video statement in the context of what was stated before and after the statement.
Scott – I don’t care about the video. I’m simply giving information about the context in which Keith would say “I’ve had people killed for my beliefs.” I haven’t watched the video in 5 years. The video isn’t going to prove anything. People think it’s the only time he’s ever said those words. It’s not. No idea what that means or if it even matters. I do know he never like me. Maybe he said it when I was around because he was marking his territory.
I’ve watched the video several times I don’t see how you can say it was taken out of context. What he said was clear. Whether it’s true I do not know.
The problem I’ve always had in regard to Kristen’s disappearance relates to Nxivm as a whole. A group of people decided they were trained experts for a patent called ESP. Therefore, they made it so. None of these people were actually trained to teach anything. They decided they were experts on children learning multiple foreign languages; therefore, again it was so. They became experts at mental health issues, experts at chrones disease and Tourette syndrome and many other real and fake diseases. They started child care centers with no oversight, overcharged desperate parents for cures for diseases they were not trained to cure. This went on and on over the years, again with no oversight. Complaints were ignored. Defectors were chased down and litigated into the poor house, causing most to walk away as quietly as possible or stay in the never-ending program the school that never ends. With Kristen Snyder, they were suddenly qualified mental health experts. I don’t care at this point which charges stick; hopefully, the ones with the most jail time. Then it’s time to go after those that allowed this totally unqualified cult to harm people year after year until we come to where we are now. As Nxivm is the worst MLM Scam going. You can’t start a business, make up your own rules, qualify your own experts, yet for well over 15 years they got away with that. New York is responsible for this. This doesn’t even touch on what they allowed Drs to do on their premises, with equipment they may not have had the legal right to purchase. I need to medicate; this case is making me crazy
You also haven’t explained how the parts before and after the statement could not change the meaning of the isolated statement. NXIVM was a baby MLM scam, in terms of the numbers of people scammed, the number of deaths, the socioeconomic ability to recover, etc. It’s not even close, and I AM an expert in the field. A real expert, not a fake NXIVM expert.