Guest View: By A Thoughtful Reader
This is in response to Nicole to Raniere: ‘My Life Meant Nothing to You.’
I’d just like to point out that at the time when Allison Mack recruited Nicole into DOS, Allison was already Keith’s slave – and Allison had collateral hanging over her own head, which was held by Keith and could destroy her reputation.
I’m not sure if Nicole knows this.
I mention it because I take the stuff about Allison loving being a master and having slaves with a MASSIVE grain of salt. I don’t doubt that she claimed to love it.
Even if Allison was walking around with a huge smile all the time, she may have been scared deep down. Not necessarily of Keith Raniere per se, but on some level she knew that if he got angry with her, bad stuff could happen. Abuse messes with peoples’ heads in weird ways. It’s like when someone who has an abusive partner beats them, a common reaction for the victim is to blame themselves, and think “I must have done something wrong that caused this”.
I watched part of India Oxenberg’s documentary, and there’s a scene where Keith asks Allison, “How late are you up tonight?”, and Allison responds almost with a giggle, “As late as I need to be”.
At first glance, it didn’t really set off my alarm bells, but then I realized, one of these people in this conversation has the ability to destroy the life of the other one for literally any reason they feel like.
And then suddenly, maybe her answer sounds more like, “I’ll stay up as late as I have to for you to not be upset with me”, or even, “I’ll stay up as late as you want so you don’t destroy my life”.
What other answer could she give without risking Keith telling her she sleeps too much? Ok, now circle back again and remember that one of these people has the other’s initials branded onto their body. Do you really think she giggled because promising to stay up all night for no reason is so great?
Nicole has every right to be furious at Allison for deceiving and recruiting her, but her line about “premeditation on Keith and Allison’s part” doesn’t sit right with me. It makes them sound like they were equal players in this, which is wrong.
Again, even if Allison proclaimed to love DOS and think it was wonderful, on some level, she had to have understood that her life could be seriously upended if she disobeyed Keith.
I believe AM and others were victimized and abused. Brainwashed from the git-go when they had to bow and call him Vanguard.
It was all a stinking setup. A wilful, malicious fraud. A trap for the unwary.
And now, most –with great careers– have lost it all.
I don’t know AM, but I seriously doubt she ever hurt anyone in her life. Same with LS and others. They look like good people.
But…if no prison time, will they simply be sucked back into the cult?
That aside, we need to hear victim impact statements……..
I believe we can all agree that Allison, on some level, is both a victim and a perpetrator, as were many in NXIVM. In my opinion, she deserves some level of compassion for what KR (and others) did to her and the way he manipulated and used her to achieve the results he wanted. It will undoubtedly take a long time for her to recover from the psychological damage done to her, and I sincerely wish her the best.
However, as a significant perpetrator, she still needs to be held accountable on some level. The number of victims she created cannot be ignored and she has caused a high level of emotional and physical damage by her own actions. Even though she may have been brainwashed, blackmailed, or simply unstable, her actions should not be justified or excused, and the impact of victim statements will likely have an effect on her ultimate sentencing. Unfortunately, the statements we’ve previously heard in court do not reflect well on her and I believe the judge will give her more than the recommended sentence based on his prior decisions.
I am not sure about Alison Mack – she seemed to be all in very quickly. Whether she gave collateral or not, she still victimised others. An organised crime syndicate was a stroke of genius of the prosecutors – who cares why the players did what they did. They’re criminals. I am sure that the individuals in the mob sitting in jail can give a great account of having no choice, being brought up in that culture, being scared of vendettas against their family etc. but their still in jail.
Also I am totally okay with little Keithy getting 120 years. Totally.
I am 1000% sick of this wolk crap.
Blacks kill more Blacks than the police. It’s a fact.
Please go back to watching Tyler Perry movies!!!!
Here is a video clip posted by a black gentleman named Jay.
It shows the initial meeting of Mack and Raniere on the volleyball court and Mack is ready to sleep with Raniere from the get go.
Mack was literally throwing herself at Raniere.
And note that Marc Vicente was on hand in 2006 to witness this encounter.
From the start Allison Mack was All In with Raniere and NXIVM.
No brainwashing was involved.
“Oh, Vanguard I need an EM to tell me why I derive so much joy from art!
And why do I get so much joy from watching the Three Stooges?” Ally Wack
—I need an EM to tell me why I derive so much joy from art!
She needs an EM and I need an ENEMA from watching that bullshit video.
I do not see ! That this subject Jay is right in his statement, after all he only sees an example that Vicente referred many times about people being very affectionate with Keith, we can without a doubt affirm that she bought Keith as a very intelligent and wise guru, but Stating that she wanted to sleep with him from day one is a very misogynistic point of view as you can clearly see how well he manipulates her emotions and vulnerabilities and she clearly believes that he has done something great, looking at it in the context of her experience. as an actress think she took it as if he were her director teaching her something about how to express something in scene
If I had to listen to that pseudo-intellectual BS and hear him pontificate on and on and try and sound important, I might become homicidal..like Truman Capote said: “Don’t kill yourself…kill them”. And also watching all those people look up to him and hang on his every excruciating word would truly drive me to want to grab them and shake them.
Allison Mack should be freed.
There is a scene in the documentary where Raniere talks to Mack at a volleyball game. He puts her on the spot and in front of the entire group and cameras, puts a spotlight on her flaws and shortcomings. She begins to cry.
She is vulnerable, exposed, being ridiculed for her flaws by an entire group of people. Then Keith tells her how proud he is of her for facing it. Suddenly, the horrifying torture of what just occurred (which was truly the equivalent of being publicly ridiculed naked) disappears in a wave of approval and admiration from Keith. He’s so proud of her. She’s making progress. He does this to her over and over, round and round, always making her feel like he’s building her up when really he is always tearing her down, humiliating her, and exposing vulnerabilities and insecurities to the entire community (and cameras) that she hasn’t even had a chance to look at herself. He is in her head so deeply, he can play her like a violin. He’s got her so wholly that can play with her and humiliate her like that for kicks and make her think it’s her fault AND EVEN THAT HES HELPING HER.
It is horrifying to watch.
That poor girl may need therapy, but she deserves NO JAIL.
She deserves the opportunity to heal from this peacefully, just like everyone else. My honest observation isn’t that Allison Mack is a conspirator. She was the BIGGEST victim of Raniere. She was the most targeted, the most duped, the most tortured, the most hurt, the most damaged. That poor girl had been so fucked up by him that I truly fear for her life. I fear that one day she just won’t be able to feel like putting the pieces of her broken psyche back together is worth it and that she’ll kill herself. I pray she doesn’t.
She deserves compassion, understanding, and most of all, forgiveness.
Everyone can be as mad as they want at Allison Mack. The truth is, no matter who got you into Nxivm, there’s this little thing called personal responsibility and if you drank the Koolaid, you have no one to blame but yourself AND RANIERE, THE MONSTER THAT DUPED YOU.
I can understand Nicole’s anger, but she needs to take a good look at Allison and what Keith was doing to her.
Of all of Keith Raniere’s crimes, there is not a single one that compares to what he did to Allison Mack. Coming off Smallville, she could have got her own series. A life. A career. He didn’t just end her career. He destroyed her life and played jenga with her psyche until she was dependent upon him to show her what reality is every second of every day.
What he did to her was like giving someone meth and avid every day for a couple years until they don’t know what’s real anymore and you alone rebuild their perception of reality to suit your fleeting whims.
And when your whims change and you topple their reality, their crumbling psyche is their weakness. The agonizing pain is because they’re fucked up and they should be grateful you’re here to help.
The entire anti Nxivm community should be holding vigil around Allison Mack right now.
You should ALL be devoted to saving her from prison and helping her get her mind back.
Her road ahead will be one of the most painful and humiliating of anyone on earth today.
She is a victim.
To see what he did to her is to see that you simply cannot hold her accountable for her actions.
I hope Nicole heals enough to see clearly because right now, I feel like her position suggests a corrupt intent. Either she hasn’t stopped to look at Allison or she’s blaming her to avoid something, because from where I stand, it’s like someone with a wet hand blaming a drowning girl for getting her hand wet.
Your hand is wet.
That girl is literally drowning and on the verge of death.
Maybe you can let go of your anger and be of some assistance.
What you wanted was to make the world a better place, right?
Practice peace on a personal level.
It’s like Allison is oding on heroin and Nicole is angry that Allison gave her her first puff of marijuana.
She’s ODing right now.
There’s a greater urgency here.
Look at the big picture.
“It’s like Allison is oding on heroin and Nicole is angry that Allison gave her her first puff of marijuana.
She’s ODing right now.” JarMa13
Are you saying or implying that Allison Mack is on drugs?
Allison Mack broke the law.
Ask Nicole the VICTIM how she feels.
“Ask Nicole the VICTIM how she feels.” It’s a saad case
Notice how much concern there is for Allison Mack and how little concern there is for the 150 victims.
Dear Shadow I am asking the writer to consider Nicole the victims opinion. Isn’t the victim important?
[redacted] 150 was the total number of women that I got to see in D.OS, that means ALL the women including the 8 first line
but on the other hand thanks for recognizing Allison as one of Keith’s victims
Was it not 152 in total?
I couldn’t agree more. I have nothing left to say, you said it all.
Allison deserves freedom, she needs therapy for all the trauma she’s been through.
If Allison were a man, no one would keep making excuses for her. The bad behavior of women is directly linked to the fact that that they know there’s a world of people out there dying to go to bat for them.
There is no such thing, in reality, as equality of the sexes. So, of course, guilt and judgment of guilt are rendered differently. What do you expect?
Keep in mind the women in DOS were blackmailed.
Well rats can devour each other so I am not surprised that victory/abuser is a role they all played except little Keithy.
The only important thing to remember is that without all of those witches there would be no little keithy. How about that for women’s’ lib!
One ability that Raniere has in good measure is the ability to identify people’s vulnerabilities and exploit them. I believe this was routinely done after digesting the material that the victims offered up whilst receiving NXIVM services. All that self-disclosure provided a wealth of material to work with.
One he knew the buttons to press, he had a very great deal of power to wield.
He loved it.
Raniere learned that while he was in Amway. LOL
Those LOLs are hilarious!
I am here to entertain and share my wisdom. LOL
I enjoy helping people. LOL
Originally I used ATM and DTF. LOL
Despite the use of the LOLs I do not believe the commenter here is Scott.
I’m sure it’s funny, but which meanings of ATM and DTF are you referring to? LOL
I know, that’s why I use them. LOL
Then again, it’s good somebody out-there learned something other than to whine. LOL
In reference to your posted comments…
…Why do you continue to make Frank’s life difficult?
So many people complain and then leave. What does driving people away accomplish?
Whatever your end game is it eludes me as to what you gain.
RE: Thesis of this Comment:
Everyone who has been following the Nxivm story has a different perspective concerning the culpability of the various parties involved. Who is a victim, who is a villain, and who is plain craven?!?!?
One thing I am certain; we can all agree the three titled individuals of Nxivm deserve the most prison time.
They are, of course, the Vanguard, the Proctor, and the lovely Legatus.
Vanguard didn’t have any true power until the heiresses showed up. Clare earned her time.
People were, and some still are, actively involved in more than one category and in different degrees. LOL
There’s no question that Allison cannot be totally absolved of culpability. But there is also no question that she and Raniere were not on the same level of culpability. If I’m not mistaken, she gave Raniere the deed to her house and a confession (presumably untrue) of molesting her nephews, say nothing of probably dozens of nude photos. Argue the nuances of culpability all you want, but you can’t claim she wasn’t also a victim.
I think it’s grotesque to put the onus on a victim to empathize with her abuser. A stranger who wasn’t there, rationalizing events they weren’t part of or witness to, to lesson the impact of the abuser, not the actual victim.
I assume you’re on other websites doing the same for all the white pimps facilitating rape, like Ghislaine Maxwell.
Guest View, shame on you. What arrogance!
This is the kind of comment I wish we could avoid. You write, “I assume you’re on other websites doing the same for all the white pimps facilitating rape, like Ghislaine Maxwell.”
Your assumption that the individual is on other websites is just your way of attacking the person for expressing an opinion you don’t agree with. I hardly think the writer is out there defending white pimps or black or brown pimps either.
You follow with an ad hominem attack calling for shame and proclaiming the person arrogant.
If you were interested in promoting honest debate for the purpose of advancing your opinion you would explain why, in your opinion, the writer is wrong.
You are basically arguing, if I understand you, that the mere fact of disagreeing with every conclusion of any victim equates to arrogance. Victims cannot be questioned. That every coloring of horror must be accepted in the exact shade it is presented – in order to protect victims.
OK, write it that way. But consider that other people might believe that sex crime victims should be treated the same way as accusers of other crimes. Reasonable doubt exists in every category of crime, which means victims must be questioned and challenged, except perhaps sex crimes.
You seem to have been prompted into name calling because the writer disagreed with Nicole and wrote that “’premeditation on Keith and Allison’s part’ doesn’t sit right with me. It makes them sound like they were equal players in this, which is wrong.”
I think the writer meant that Keith did the premeditating and Allison followed his orders. Maybe the writer is right. Maybe Nicole seemed to place too much blame on Allison or maybe it was just right.
You chide the writer because she/he was not present at the scene. But were you present? How do you know what happened?
Allison is due to be sentenced so that is fair game for discussion.
Wow, that’s quite a lot in response to my comment.
I’m in the process of spending my Sunday cleaning 3 giant oriental rugs, because I had the misfortune to switch dog food. The horror…. I’ll sit down and answer this in a few hours.
To some of your initial points, I was being facetious and speaking to the Affluenza and double standard of applying the same justice to people of different races and different classes.
Back to the rugs.
You should be aware that Oriental is no longer a culturally appropriate term. Asian is the politically correct term. My God Daughter is Chinese or Asian, she is not “Oriental”. Seriously!
How do Oriental rugs from Bed Bath and Beyond hold-up?
No Persian rugs—Iranian rugs not good enough for you?
This is a great example of incorrect wokeism, NotUrMom. Oriental rugs are a style of rugs. There are no Asian rugs geddit?
You’re Goddaughter is not a rug. But keep trying to virtue signal how morally superior you are – it’s not working but you know, some people need something to feel better about themselves.
[redacted] There is nothing wrong calling your [redacted] god daughter ORIENTAL. Why don’t Chinese people want diversity at home?
Boulders do you recognize sarcasm when you see it?
Bed Bath and Beyond is a knock on anyone who has expensive Persian rugs that need to be cleaned. It the equivalent of saying the rugs are cheap.
The first sentence is better written, “I meant it as sarcasm.” The idea of politeness is important for we have some very serious discussions coming up and the only way I can get all sides to weigh in is through engaged and vigorous debate without the negativity toward fellow commenters.
I know I’m weird, but I found this rug racism discussion oddly entertaining. Now I’m curious about the dog food change that started this tangent. To try and help Frank keep us on topic: Keith is a big fan of rugs.
I apologize if my sarcasm provoked you to come out with the pejoratives Woekism and virtue signaling as I understand as a proud Republican how PC culture is so offensive. Do you want to get together and have a Café Latte?
The only time you’re supposed to use the word “Oriental” is in reference to rugs. I wasn’t referring to a person or persons.
Any time you switch your dog’s food, you risk “irritable bowels”. For the record, it was two cheap rugs and two expensive rugs, all were hand washed in the bathtub with vinegar and soap, then air dried outside draped across the patio furniture. They were big, it took days of soaking and drying.
The dog is a Blue Pitt that is currently wearing a black and red plaid fleece dog jacket and sitting on my feet.
I think the comments section is one big soap opera – and you get what you deserve when you limit comments and allow anonymous commenters. LOL
—I think the comments section is one big soap opera
I am curious to learn who do you deem the antagonist in our quaint soap opera?
My dear friend, did you watch All My Children?
Frank was a big fan of Erica Caine played by the hot as f**k Susan Lucci. She didn’t hit the wall till 60. Italian women and olive skin. My wife is Italian
The antagonist depends on your perspective, NiceGuy 666. LOL
I wonder who the antagonist of our tale is.
Dear my friend Scott,
Thank you so much for answering my question question.
Frank I finally get “it”, in regards to my comments, you want me to go full Boy Scout minus the troop leader.
I was not cognizant of my rudeness to Mr. Boulder.
It is always hard in cults to decide these things as to who is guilty and who not. In the FLDS group under Warren Jeffs, men could lose all their wives and children to another man at a stroke if they did not obey the leader. They also got young brides if they gave their young daughters up to be brides in return. Can be very hard to decide who is a victim and who is not.
“And then suddenly, maybe her answer sounds more like, “I’ll stay up as late as I have to for you to not be upset with me”, or even, “I’ll stay up as late as you want so you don’t destroy my life”.” I heard that comment too but it could equally have been because she wanted him. There are consensual relationships out there where the other person will agree to take a call however late.
Perfect wording. Nothing is black or white.
So Allison Mack was an exploited slave?
How many slaves travel to Prague to cavort with her friends?
How many slaves film that trip and post it on Youtube?
This video comes from Allison Mack’s official Youtube page.
Why don’t you ask India? She flew between Albany and California all the time while she was in DOS. And that video you posted is from 2009. DOS was supposedly conceived around 2015.
Mack was a slave, not a prisoner.
you need to watch the scene of Keith and Allison at the volleyball game. First, he puts a spotlight on her, bringing some unacceptable flaw she has to everyone’s attention. She starts to cry. She’s basically being publicly humiliated. Then he tells her how proud he is of her that she owned it and all the pain of being tortured is swept away by a wave of Keith’s admiration and approval and he does it over and over
He’s in her head, playing with her for kicks. Getting her to embarrass herself, then pretend like it’s a growth process Allison Mack was more victimized than anyone involved in Nxivm.
Appearances are only the surface.
That was a girl that was starving herself and had to ask the cockbearer she was serving permission for every morsel of food she could have.
He dictated when she slept, when she woke, where she went, what she did. You have to see for yourself what he did to her to really get it.
He devoted himself to getting into her head and fucking her up so bad that she couldn’t shit without his permission.
She didn’t know if it was okay to shit or if she should just hold it in until it kills her.
What he did to her was the greatest crime he committed
They flew to Prague and came up with the infamously bad A cappella performance?
Allison was obviously both a victim and a perpetrator. She deserves compassion for her victimization, and time in prison for the crimes she committed. The big question is that of duress. To my knowledge, she hasn’t stated that she was acting under duress, or out of fear.
That will count against her, whether it is the case or not
She hasn’t said it as of now. It took India a year of therapy to be able to say that Keith “psychologically raped” her. I just think that we need to give her time to be able to an honest account of what her relationship to Keith was.
That’s fair enough. I hope she has been receiving therapy.
whether she knows it or not, her actions were not her own.
She should get NO prison time.
She may need therapy, but she is the biggest victim of all and deserves the chance to heal from this in peace
Frank, I would love to hear more about Alison Mack’s family involvement in NXIVM. Would you be able to do a story on this? Seems like they may have led the way for Alison to become the person she was/is.
I do not know a lot about her family, except it seems they were generally supportive of Allison being in Nxivm. Her father a voice teacher gave some lessons I heard.
Her dad was a voice teacher, did he consult or work with Nancy in NLP?
Allison speaks as if she’s always in a performance. I had assumed from her experience as a child actor. Later in her interviews with Keith, it’s more refined. She speaks at times like Nancy. I have to wonder how deep the voice training goes.
If only you knew a journalist capable of investigating such things who could reach out to some former inner circle members or former friends of Allison Mack. I believe you might want to contact Mark Vicente about this. He was on the executive board, co-owned the Vancouver Center and lived in Albany. From the footage in Seduced and The Vow, we know he was there filming everything. Also his wife Bonnie Piesse would be a good source of information. She and Allison were in the group Simply Human and she and Mark also lived with Allison in her townhome in Albany for at least a few years. Since Bonnie reached out to Catherine Oxenberg, I believe she would have tried to save Allison too and at least reached out to Allison’s parents to warn them about the danger that Allison was in before going public. Yes?
Susan Dones would also be a good person to give insight into Allison Mack. She is on Twitter @SusanDones and has written some interesting things about Allison and how unstable and shallow she was from the moment she started taking classes at her center.
Barbara Bouchey is another person you could contact. It has been reported that Allison worshipped Barbara and wanted to be like her and gave her all of her money.
From your ID documentary, you seem to have access to Kristin Keeffe and Karen Unterreiner. Since they were long time sex slaves and co-conspirators with Raniere for some 20-40 years, they should also be able to provide you with some information about Allison.
Also Sarah Edmondson would be a great source as well. She co-owned the Vancouver Center with Mark Vicente. She has spoken and written some about Allison, but I believe she should know a lot more as she would have been there during Allison’s early cult indoctrination. Sarah and her husband said some not so nice things about you in The Vow, but we know that she did speak to you and gave you some information so I’m sure if you reached out to her, she would share whatever intel she has on Allison.
Tabby Chapman is another person you can probably get information from. She has now gone public in Seduced. She joined the cult because of Allison and worked for her. and was a huge fan of Allison. She said she moved to Vancouver and Albany because of Allison and was in the cult until 2014.
India Oxenberg would be good too. She may have spoken a lot about what Allison did to her or made her do, but she mentions spending Thanksgiving with Allison and her parents after she became Allison’s slave and was not allowed to be with her own family in LA for the holiday so it would be great to hear more about what she knows about the Mack clan involvement.
Finally Nicki Clyne. Now that you know Nicki intimately, I’m sure she will be happy to share with you all of the information that she knows about Allison and her family.
Nice try, Anon! you are either very new here or are being very dry indeed!
When I first started commenting on this case almost three years ago someone responded with words to the effect that “Allison is a good girl and she likes reading self-help books.”
Someone claimed that commenter was Allison’s mother.
I do know that Allison’s younger sister is politically radical and very pro-BLM.
pro BLM is radical?
asserting that black lives are of equal value to white lives is perceived as radical?
and here I thought that was an absolute Truth that all of humanity accepts.
Who kills more…
Italian Americans killing blacks or blacks killing Italian Americans?
Do Italian lives matter?
Blacks kill more blacks.
Do blacks truly believe in BLM?
That’s the real question.
Frank, this is my last post on this race topic. This topic is extremely important and shows the bias in media!!!
Below are numbers provided by the FBI. If JA MA 13 wants to discuss race, it’s a free country and Free Speech matters!
Not telling the whole story is duplicitous.
There is definitely racism?!????!?
Whites make up 60% of the population.
Blacks make up less than 15% of the population.
In any random year say under Obama in 2014:
Whites murdered 187 black people
Blacks murdered 446 white people
There is a 45 % difference in population size and a 40% difference in murder rates.
Whites outnumber Blacks by 4 times yet blacks murder 40% more whites than whites murder blacks.
So that’s 2 black people for every 5 white people murdered by the other.
How come no one is talking about this fact?
FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 6
Ok – you got it out of your system. Let’s move on to the topics at hand.
I blew a gasket. Stressful day.
Thank you for not posting my ridiculous, embarrassing, and superfluous diatribe.
Interesting so all of Allison’s family were involved in Nxivm.
—I know now that Allison’s younger sister is politically radical and very pro-BLM.
Those artistic types are known liberals excluding the Fürhrer of course.
I believe by the preponderance of evidence Allison Mack’s sister does not shave her legs.
Something to think about:
If you are in a gang and the boss of the gang tells you to commit an illegal act and you obey that order, then you broke the law.
Stop defending a grown woman who chose to join a gang and break the law.
And as it stands right now we know the nature of the blackmail material Allison Mack handed over.
Allison Mack concealed nothing.
Shadow, I think you’re a smart person, and a lot of what you’ve written on FR is intelligent and well thought-out. But when it comes to Allison, you have a huge blind spot in your critical thinking.
Anonymous: Here is a video of a starving Allison Mack driving her friends to an Indian restaurant for some Naan bread.
Enjoy Allison’s Apu accent.
Allison Mack Driving
That certainly proved you don’t have a blind spot when it comes to Mack, Mr. Shadow. LOL
I wonder if they found a parking spot.
—I wonder if they found a parking spot.
Funny, because I am wondering if their lives in danger.
I wonder how taxidermy cankle bookends look on a shelf. 😉
Mack and Clyne are from the Sci-fi world see the connection?
The fact that they are both blondes, and married is merrily a coincidence or so it is believed.
In this case, Shadow is right. Mack could have turned on Raniere, could have sought help, could have tried to leave, could have gone to the authorities, could have cooperated with investigative journalists. Instead, she was loyal to the very end. And probably still is.
One thing’s for sure. Everyone here depended on Keith. One way or the other. They needed it, just like he needed them. But the boss was Keith. No, Allison, who’s just an enforcer, there’s no doubt that she broke the law and manipulated others at her’s level.
Shadow has it right. You don’t think there is collateral and danger to family if you don’t comply in a gang? Women have two options to get jumped on in some gangs, fuck or fight.
What’s the difference? Because she’s a pretty white lady she can’t be a “super participatory” ambitious sadist? She wanted inner circle status, and it showed.
Do go on, what’s the difference between the pretty white lady and a gang member?
Gang members are more honest, that’s the difference.
You said “gang members are more honest” but NXIVM was a cult and no one joins a cult being aware that it is a cult. In gangs, there is indoctrination but it is based on loyalty to the group. In cults indoctrination is subtle and disguised as a useful and revolutionary teaching. In addition, loyalty is not required in cults, it is taught as the correct path “one has to wonder if we treat these people as gang members, which would then explain loyalty when being faithful to Raniere has only brought them ruin and I do not deserve the current situation, we all know how many lives were ruined by following Raniere’s ideas
How dare you, NXIVM focused on being ethical all of the time. LOL
I agree, Mack turned on her own kind, so she is much worse than Raniere. LOL
Women will NEVER be anywhere equal to men unless and until they own up to their own behaviors, in this case committing crimes. LOL
In another post you’re speaking on behalf of a black woman, here you’re speaking on behalf of all women. You make some of the most vile and shameful comments about women on this blog, Scott. It’s disgusting, and so is what you’re doing here today.
I wish you could put this more civilly to Scott. I am trying to get more civility in the comments section.
Here is a suggested rewrite: “In another post, Scott, you’re speaking on behalf of a black woman, here you’re speaking on behalf of all women. You make comments about women that I disagree with. Here is why — [explain].”
Then the comment would be instructive, instead of merely scolding or admonishing.
Scott says the most disgusting things, and when you allow it, I wonder WHY you do. You like Scott to stir the pot, and you never correct his statements.
Policing my reaction to be more civil, to repeated sanctioned uncivil comments is disingenuous and speaks to the favoritism and misogyny allowed.
If you’re going to let Scott provoke and say ugly things, allow the ugly response. If you want civility, put your uncivil dog on a leash.
You allowed one of his last night that was straight-up rape promotion.
Truly, I appreciate the effort, if that’s indeed the goal. But playing dirty and asking me to be clean is not going to solve the problem.
Scott takes up more time than all other commenters combined. I am trying to eliminate the name calling by him and others. He may still make outrageous statements – like little 15 year old Rhiannon is to blame because she wouldn’t confront Raniere alone, wearing a wire.
Outrageous comments are still allowed.
But the response is not “Hey Scott you’re an asshole.” The response is, “Scott, the girl had already been raped by him. She was frightened by him, She was more afraid of Raniere than she trusted police to protect her, if she went in alone, wearing a secret microphone. And when you consider he raped her, probably forcing her to take off her clothes, I for one don’t blame her for declining to go in wearing a hidden microphone in her clothing. No, Scott, I would not blame Rhiannon too much. She was a child, who suffered much.”
I would not add the ad hominem attack that “Scott you are evil to have this opinion, stupid, etc.” This is exactly how Scott has treated those he disagrees with, and I have asked him to stop. While I am to blame for tolerating this before, I am not willing to tolerate it going forward.
We have some important and controversial topics to report on in the coming weeks and it will spark debate and I want it to be civil.
Playing devils advocate….
Frank is allowing freedom of speech and thought.
I don’t agree with Scott’s comments and I am not in full agreement with Frank’s stance, but I do prefer freedom of speech.
Scott treats all trollops with respect. LOL
I come here to talk about NXIVM, not school Scott on how to be a decent human being.
Then, I suggest talking about Nxivm and stop name calling. That would be nice.
I sure miss this blogs “good old days”
Spanky, so do I: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZngGIw5ONWE
Frank I apologize about all my anti-Woke posts. The tribal lady types piss-me-off and make me irate.
Black people were getting shot by cops under Obama for 8 years. And not one peep about. Why? Why, because liberal socialist are making conflicts up to push the far left radical agenda. AOC is Fidel Castro with tits.
No more political posts from me.
Not that you actually care. 😉
I’m not speaking on behalf of anyone except myself, and as far as I know Biden hasn’t outlawed the First Amendment…yet. LOL
You wrote “I think you’re disgusting, and I have facts and logic to back it up”
– you totally ignored that women were, and still are, abusing other women – I see far more women hating women than men hating women in NXIVM – I find that to be the most vile and shameful thing, it’s disgusting – if women don’t stand up for each other, how do you expect the opposite sex to do so? I’m not interested in getting in the middle of cat fights: https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-Lkry-SF3&hsimp=yhs-SF3&hspart=Lkry&p=senfeld+cat+fight#id=1&vid=0054515a84035d043a12d712f65953b4&action=click. LOL
That’s fine, but in that context, you have to remember that the recruitment was based on a system of 666. Each slave recruited 6 slaves and each of those, in turn, would recruit 6 slaves and so precisely then. Allison only recruited 6 slaves and they were supposed to recruit to 6 slaves each, then think about the brand and the collection of the blackmail material and this went from master to slave, master to slave, master to slave and so on from the 8 first-line slaves to the last.
If recruitment was based on 666, why did Raniere have 8 in his immediate downline? LOL
How do you know the limit was 6? LOL
Even if it was, just like most MLMs, they never were able to recruit that many, and the ones who were recruited kept falling out – so much for saturation. LOL
RE 666 Keith’s Downline:
Yes, the devil’s legions of followers use the secret number 666[ it’s in every bible and mentioned all the time in popular culture] to shroud their activities….Only Satan and Satan’s army know the secret call numbers 666. So inconspicuous is the cabal.
Let’s see the 40th President who was Catholic, many evangelical Christians in the 80s, believed his name signified him as the devil’s henchmen. Poor Ronald Wilson Reagan’s full name contained 6 letters in his first, middle, and last name. 666.
Now evangelicals Christians praise my favorite president as a patron saint…Oh the irony!
Santa gets honorable mention because his name scrambled spells Satan that and he wore all red like the devil on can of Deviled Ham.
Frank Parlato is having a Eureka moment as he read this piece of intel. Interestingly enough the 40th president is an alumnus of Eureka College. Double Eureka!
I have read some things about 666 in relation to the magic of numbers and what I understand is that 666 does not represent something evil, in reality they are only principles of the universal order, 6 as a number is just a symbol within a language which represents a constant, now if you look at the universe in terms of vibrations and frequencies and those constants are adjusted to sacred geometry, 6 is associated with the hexagon, 6 is also associated with the family, by the way for several people who have investigated what From 666 the beast of the apokalipsis does not represent an entity as such but rather a system of thought perhaps associated with the so-called hive mentality.
As for the use that Keith gave him for recruitment, it is curious and makes me think that he knew well what he was doing, especially because there are 8 first-line women and only below them is 666 applied, taking into account that 6 and 8 are even numbers but 8 is higher than 6, it reminds me of something I saw about even numbers being like negative poles and odd positive poles, in that sense the odd ones are more stable and the odd ones more active, if so We see in this sense the 8 first-line women dominate the system of women controlled with the 666 system and at 8 they are controlled by the number 9, which is one over 8, that is, 9/8, while at the bottom it was 8/6 and This is how 6/6 continued in which the slave master became the 7 not manifest.One way to visualize it is if you take the hexagon and behind straight lines between its internal angles then the point where the lines intersect becomes 7 the which is the positive for him and in the case of the s 8 front-line women would be an octagon so 9 is their positive and 9 in this case is Keith, in the government photo where you see the 8 front-line women lined up in a circle and forming an octagon and in The middle is Keith, it reminds me of the one ring that ties them all in the dark
The 666 thing comes from the first publications that Frank made about the brand and about DOS, and since Frank did not invent it but it was the information given by his sources, I believe him, regarding the 8 front-line women everything indicates that they were not controlled in the same way as the others, I would say that there is more to this than the numbers that Keith used, it seems numerical magic
Anonymous 5:09 pm
Six’s are a fairly common number throughout the universe because of equilateral triangles particularly and all other triangles as well.
Triangles form geometric shapes in geometry which formed the basis of Newton’s development of Physics. Beehives are a prime example.
Below is one of the better explanations/ papers of the magic of equilateral triangles I have read.
A mystic cat appears on in the triangle treatise.
So it’s not 6 but 3 is the magic all from triangles the basis of geometric shapes.
I believe the mysticism involving 666 is more or less taken from the number 3. 3 is the most powerful number in the Bible. I am not a religious man but 3 as well as 6 is probably sourced from someone with a mathematical background.
Re The article Clarification:
The mysticism is not mysticism but science.
The universe is composed of geometric triangles.
To be fair to Scott, in many third world countries Scott’s comments, his comments pertaining to women in DOS/Nxivm, wouldn’t be considered misogynistic or inappropriate.
His comments, in the developing world, would be considered highly accurate descriptions of women.
“Women who dress inappropriately in revealing clothes deserve to be raped.”
My entire comment is meant to be offensive, sarcastic, and caustic to the extreme.
I am attempting to highlight for Frank why people are so offended by in Scott’s writing.
Scott’s comment are also appropriate and not considered misogynistic in first world countries such as the U.S., outside of female Libtard circles. LOL
Neither Scott nor I have ever said that a woman in revealing clothes deserves to be raped, but they are more likely to be raped – would you walk through a bear-infested forest with a steak placed on your head? LOL
Frank will you please stop LOL from speakIng for Scott or referring to himself as Scott. It’s not fair to Scott.
I have Scott’s permission. LOL
—Scott’s comment are also appropriate and not considered misogynistic in first world countries such as the U.S., outside of female Libtard circles.
I guess the screenplay you wrote involving the [redacted] and sexual taboos is wholesome Disney-family entertainment?
Ever wonder why the Seven Dwarfs lived alone? I have some theories.
Which screenplay are you referring to? LOL
I don’t recall writing one. LOL
I always assume the Seven Dwarfs lived alone because they were small-minded. LOL
We are not in a forest, and we are not dealing with bears, but with humans. You can expect something different from humans than from wild animals.
Scott your metaphors would make Robert Frost proud.
You have to feel sorry for Allison in some manner because everyone was a victim of Raniere in some form. Allison clearly had something in her psychology and personality that made her more susceptible to Raniere’s machinations than others. I don’t think it was something evil at all within her like it was in Raniere, but I think it more likely had to do with her acting history which started when she was a child, where she played many characters and constantly took direction and sought the approval and validation of (mostly male) adults which she subconsciously carried over into adulthood. Raniere manipulated her lack of a sense of self by warping the notion of authenticity and used that to control her.
You are correct, Allison is a victim too. She suffered years of brainwashing to get to this point. It is a shame that her parents were involved in this cult too because they could have saved her as the mother of India did.
Her life was completely destroyed; she lost her youth, career, money, reputation, and now freedom. It is really shocking and sad.
I agree, they weren’t equal players. That’s why Raniere deserves 120 years in federal prison, and I think Mack deserves 10-15.
Mack was more than a mere cog in the machine. She was a slave master, a role she relished (according to sworn court testimony). A role she enthusiastically embraced when Raniere wasn’t around.
She was enthusiastic about branding women. Let that sink in. Branding women. She lured women into DOS by lying about its very nature, gathering blackmail material on them (which she also did enthusiastically, according to sworn court testimony – remember the “you have a pretty cunt” remark?) The branding was done in her home.
She wasn’t some poor trapped soul reluctantly doing Raniere’s bidding. She was his willing, loving partner. Loyal to the last: she ran off with him to Mexico, going so far as to chase the Mexican police car that held her love, her mentor, her role model, her dear master.
She remained loyal even as the trial loomed. She claimed credit for the idea of branding – no mere tattoo would be good enough.
The branding design is KR and AM intertwined, as should be their fate.
Before, I suspected Judge Garaufis might pass a lenient sentence on the women in this case, concentrating on Raniere. Not so after Bronfman’s sentencing. She got nearly seven years, for two relatively light crimes. She was not even directly involved in DOS.
Mack is guilty of racketeering and conspiracy. She was a central part of this criminal racket, directly involved in planning and executing the enslavement and branding of multiple women. Raniere’s invaluable lieutenant throughout.
She certainly deserves a longer sentence than Bronfman.
Bronfman is a case apart from the DOS teachers, she had years of abusing people both through litigation, and through her position in the company as a leader and superior rank, Silvie is proof of this, manipulated since before being a part of DOS, while allison is only prosecuted for her involvement in nicole’s and possibly Jay’s case, but it seems to me that the main charges are against Nicole, but I think since allison doesn’t even have a history of crimes during his time at Nxivm
I think you’re kind of missing the point of this.
You said: “She was a slave master, a role she relished (according to sworn court testimony). A role she enthusiastically embraced when Raniere wasn’t around. She was enthusiastic about branding women.”
I think we need to reconsider how enthusiastic she was. Again, she had collateral hanging over her own head through all of this, which those who report her as loving her role may not have considered. Yes, she claimed DOS was wonderful. Right up to the NY times interview where she lied about the branding being her idea. There is no question that she claimed repeatedly that all of this was wonderful and great.
It doesn’t matter if Keith was physically present in the room when she said these things. That is literally the point of Keith inventing this whole scheme. I know this might be difficult, but try to imagine that you have handed the keys to your life to someone and now they are telling you to do these things. They are telling you to recruit slaves. The idea of having your collateral released is terrifying, and it could destroy your life. And you also want so badly to believe that this lifetime vow you have taken is a good thing. That this system you have agreed to live by was created by someone who wants what is best for you. You’re trying so hard to convince yourself that pushing away your family, and being branded, and becoming someone’s slave was a good decision. So you do what Keith tells you, you recruit these women and they eventually get branded.
But you can’t go to prospective slaves and say “I’m only trying to recruit you because Keith will destroy my life if I don’t.” You have to tell them DOS is wonderful, because they won’t join otherwise. And once they are in, you have to keep acting like everything is wonderful, because otherwise they will leave. What do you think Keith might have done to Allison, or had done, if the women under her in DOS left because she admitted to them she was miserable? Maybe remove her as a master? Maybe release her collateral? Kick her out of NXIVM altogether?
For that matter, what do you think might have happened if she refused to recruit slaves of her own? Do you think Keith would have said “no biggie?” Even going to Keith and saying “Fine, I’ll recruit slaves for you, but only because I’m afraid of what you’ll do if I don’t” risks incurring punishment from Keith. (For evidence of this, I refer you to the texts between Camila and Keith where she says she doesn’t really want to have slaves and is basically threatened as a response). For her own security she needed to act like DOS was great, and she needed to do it whether Keith was standing there or not.
Again, really just try to understand that DOS wasn’t all fun and games for Allison. If it was, there wouldn’t be stories about her waking up screaming in the middle of the night.
The law gives little weight to those things, it focuses on provable behaviors. Period. LOL
I recall a story in which the excuse of one of the DOS members cutting themselves, to feel, was the beginning idea to “mark” DOS members. I don’t recall the source.
It struck me about the cutting to feel, I immediately thought it was she, if true.
Agreed. What she couldn’t do with money, as Clare, she did so in the way of recruitment and support.
Her behavior before DOS undermined others in her clawing her way to the top of the hierarchy.
She is the perfect example of White Feminism. Oppressing and exploiting other women to position herself higher in a patriarchal system. A victim but ambition made her a victimizer. And she is so very ambitious.
I did wonder if Mack invented DOS and KR was simply happy to go along with it (and take the sexual benefits) and that, in effect, she brought him down through that DOS thing. I know he knew about it. I know he discussed the brand and making sure they got consent when doing it but that could be because he wasn’t that happy these women had set this women’s thing up and he knew it might come back to bite him. Is there any evidence that that might be the way it was done or have we seen something where KR says he set up DOS and initiated it?
OK, but I cannot understand how the Prefect, our Nancy, the powerful Queen of the Halfmoon EM, and executive lady boss, was not a witness or even seen as a protector for the women, not even her own daughter.
The “tech” was, therefore, a total fraud.
We do not need the SOP men to both promote and then, as this guy, act as if DOS was not the result. The audacity of a man in the Nxivm hierarchy. Even worse, the lack of noblesse oblige from the Queen, Nancy Salzman, for the women who needed her.