Heidi Clifford told Frank Report recently that when Kristin Snyder claimed she was pregnant with Keith Raniere’s child, she did not believe her.
She was not jealous, not angry. There was no domestic quarrel over this.
She was simply worried about Kristin. But she did not believe for a moment that Kristin had an affair with Keith Raniere.
She had good reason. At the same time Kristin claimed she was pregnant with the Vanguard, she was also claiming she was “at cause” for the implosion of the Space Shuttle Columbia.
Heidi knew the Space Shuttle Columbia story was utterly false and impossible and assumed the seemingly improbable story of Kristin getting pregnant from a highly regarded teacher – Raniere – who the classmates offered tribute to daily as Vanguard, a genius who was said to be highly ethical and in fact a celibate – was also fiction, the product of Kristin’s recent descent into psychosis.
“I didn’t believe her,” Heidi said. “Back then, Esther and others were saying, ‘See, it was like she is trying to turn into the Holy One. She wants to be the female version of this incredibly smart teacher.”
It is funny, coming from Esther who knew Keith was quite capable of having sex with his female students – for he had sex with her.
But Esther was persuasive. She led the charge that Kristin was just seeking attention, trying to get people to believe she was like Keith, instead of admitting the possibility that Keith could have gotten her pregnant as he had done with other women who he ordered to have abortions.
Heidi said she believed at the time that Kristin was “so psychotic at that last layer to where she was emulating Raniere, a female version. That was what we thought at the time.”
Things are different now. A lot has been revealed about Raniere lately. Heidi said she would have taken Kristin seriously if she knew then what she knows now.
“At the time ESP was a just class downtown [Anchorage] that was no one much about. No, there was no bad history, no literature, no bad media reports. [when Kristin said she was pregnant in class it was] ‘Oh, let’s just move on.” It’s a whole different story now. Now we know people died. People were poisoned. These things did not come out until later. That she was raped by some guy? Who knew it was real? We know it’s real. Now we know.”
Heidi also explained why she had Kristin declared dead fairly quickly after she disappeared.
“I think it is the closure thing, like ‘Okay, can’t find her; she’s gone.’ If she was declared dead and she turned up alive, it could be reversed,” Heidi said. “If she came back, we would go to the judge and say ‘She’s alive’. It’s not like [declaring her dead] changes the truth, but having it be like just done. We could have waited 20 years. Some people wait years. But it’s sad just kind of waiting. Of course, I’m always hoping, waiting for her to show up. If she came back, it would be great.
“I have sadness for the rest of my life. But I’m not a big slow pokey hanging around. You know, it’s not my style. It’s matter of fact. I’m a human being. And you know, the judges are like, ‘Well, what do you have?’ There was no other explanation for her disappearance. So the explanation is that she’s gone. And yes, it’s odd that we couldn’t find any evidence [of her body] but we didn’t know at the time that 16 out of 16 people had been found [in the waters of Resurrection Bay, a 100 percent body recovery rate] by the harbormaster. That wasn’t something that was like really the conversation at the time.
“She was in decline. She took a car and drove somewhere. There’s no like sociopathic aspect to that then. Keith was not weird to anybody’s eyes yet. He wasn’t weird until 2017. I mean, think of all the people who got fucked over for the last 20 years. All those people had no idea that they were [being fucked over at the time].”
As for not mentioning to police that Kristin claimed she was pregnant, Heidi said she did not tell police because she did not want to become a suspect based on what she thought then was the ravings of her mentally ill and suicidal partner.
“I don’t remember if I minimized the Nxivm aspect of this. I just went forward into the police department as a suicide, like we all at that time believe, because of what happened,” she said.
Heidi now thinks it possible that Kristin was drugged. She did not suspect it at the time and also believes it is possible Keith had a hand in killing Kristin.
“I don’t think they gave her a drug that induced her psychosis but maybe they drugged her to make her submissive when they got her alone,” Heidi said.
Asked why she sold Kristin’s truck to pay off the remaining ESP bill, especially after Kristin was kicked out of class and her suicide note indicated the ESP course was responsible for her suicide, Heidi answered. “Esther Chiappione said, ‘You must pay this bill.’ This is after Kristin was gone. This is Friday. This is Saturday. This is a couple days later, but my friend Hillary called up Esther Chiappone when she was back again in Albany and Esther said “Hey, you know this bill. This is your bill!’
“Kris had integrity. Kris had no bills. Her entire estate was the truck. I did not inherit anything from Kristin. All I got was a truck. I sold it and paid off the rest of Kris’ debt to ESP. Damn straight Esther was threatening me to pay that bill. There’s no question. Esther was certain I had to pay that bill. This is after Kristin was gone only for several days. I never thought about keeping the money. It was like eight or nine or $10,000. I just wanted to kind of clean up these things for Kristin because she would have wanted it this way, I think, and also to get ESP out of my life.”
Of course, that was not to happen. ESP lingered for years, is lingering still in Heidi’s life and many others.
For years, Heidi believes she was the subject of surveillance, harassment and intimidation and now she’s speaking out.
Stay tuned for more in this subject.
I like that you’re being inclusive on the subject of homosexuality.
I agree that nobody should be discriminated against or hated for their lifestyle. Everybody deserves respect.
…But when you said that GOD’S WILL doesn’t say anything about the topic of homosexuality, you’re not quite being honest with your readers — unless you believe in a God that’s never written a Bible or Holy Book for the world.
Leviticus 18:22 (Bible passage):
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”
I’m not arguing that homosexuality is wrong. I’m not even arguing that God is real.
I’m simply making the point that IF you believe in God (as a Christian, Jewish person or Muslim) THEN you must accept that the Bible/Koran/Holy Book is God’s will.
As an aside…
If you think that God’s ‘word’ just isn’t correct anymore (i.e. you think his ‘word’ is outdated) then you’re really saying that you don’t believe in God and are an atheist —- which is perfectly fine as long as you’re honest with your readers and admit this fact.
As for me, I know that Noah’s Ark could NOT have really existed (thus I do not believe in the Bible).
I think it’s a book written by ‘man’ and was not inspired by God.
Cuz the Bible says that Noah’s Ark was floating on the sea higher than the highest Mountain peak on Earth, which is Mt. Everest at nearly 30,000 feet. But humans and animals cannot survive at that altitude (30,000 feet) without oxygen masks for more than a short period, just minutes, usually.
If a jet flying at 30,000 feet loses cabin pressure it must descend to under 10,000 feet QUICKLY or everybody will die within minutes, due to lack of oxygen to the brain.
Plus, it’s way too cold for humans and animals to survive at 30,000 feet for any length of time, they’d all freeze to death even if they didn’t suffocate first.
Plus, the Bible says that every animal EVER CREATED was on the Ark, but we know that Dinosaurs could not have been on the Ark as they went extinct millions of years before Noah was even born.
Thus, I know that the stories of the bible are not true — therefore it cannot be a book of divine inspiration.
It was simply a book written by ‘man’ — which is why its views on ‘homosexuality’ were simply a mirror of society’s views at that time in history.
Bangkok, doesn’t the fact that the Earth is flat rule out the possibility of the great flood being real? The water would have just run off the sides of the disc, anyways….or maybe you crazy evangelicals have a theory that incorporates both flat earth and Noah’s ark.
Who was in title on the truck? If it was titled in Kristin alone, I assume someone (executor= Heidi?) would have had to open a probate estate for Kristin to make the sale of asset of estate. That would take awhile. I’m no estate lawyer but this stuff is common knowledge. And, when you transfer title to a vehicle, you have to record the transfer with Dept Motor Vehicles, so there would have been record of Heidi selling the truck– either directly to NXIVM, or to a third party who paid $for truck which she then she gave to NXIVM. Did Kristin/ Heidi own this truck free and clear? If you have a loan outstanding on a vehicle, it has to be paid off or other accommodations made to transfer vehicle title subject to a loan. This would have been on public records in AK. I don’t know how long they keep such records.
The New York Times reported during Raniere’s trial that the government had seized Nancy S’s files on people containing NXIVM “background research” on the NXIVM perceived enemies list– and that she had a file labeled “Kristin Snyder.” Were the contents of that file entered into evidence, and what did it contain and say?
It seems that the Canaprobe files were fraudulent. Canaprobe was actually bilking Raniere Bronfman and created fictitious files.
I wouldn’t doubt that Canaprobe could well have been bilking NXIVM in the Snyder case (as well as others), after taking the place of the previous, virtually unknown investigators NXIVM wired huge sums of money to sight unseen. But I think we’d still like to know what was in those files.
And that of course fed into NXIVM’s conveniently self-serving conspiracy theory that Snyder faked her own disappearance. But that theory is not without some plausibility, or completely baseless, particularly when compared to others, and it at least ought to be investigated.
This is also a reminder that NXIVM was a hapless group incapable of pulling off just about anything in the real world, except when they used the Bronfmans’ wealth to hire actual professionals like attorneys to go after their enemies. Raniere’s principal talent and ability, such as it was, was manipulating a circle of women around him, and getting them to do the things that built up modest-sized though still always shaky scams.
I agree– I’d like to know what was in the Canaprobe files re Kristin Snyder?
As I keep saying, I’d also like to know what Kim observed going on with Kristin’s ESPian “friends” in Anchorage after her sister’s disappearance. A little energy spent on that question might provide some new information about who ws doing what re coverup (or not) , and perhaps open some doors to what actually happened.
Because the suicide in Seward story is just.dumb on so many levels.
How many other depressed people in history of world have been determined to have committed suicide by driving 2 and half hours on ice scary road , stealing a kayak (how did she know one would be available, that they weren’t locked up or put away for winter?) , then paddle out in the night into a huge bay without steerage on the supposedly unsteerable kayak (no rudder), and then roll the kayak and throw themselves into frigid Alaska waters in middle of dark night ? Why did she say not to look for body when drowned bodies float? She had no idea where tides would take her body….. Kinda like being a kamikaze pilot on suicide mission in war –which takes a lot of energy and commitment and organization– but without a mission like war-, just a scrambled mind and personal destruction? Virtually any other way to kill herself would be easier and more guaranteed success–. Besides, she could have gotten a kayak in Anchorage and paddled out into Cook Inlet which is right there– 5 min from the Westmark Hotel– she didn’t need to go to Seward to drown herself or get a kayak– Cook Inlet has huge and crazy ripping tides and she could have done the deed much more easily and immediately in she wanted death by kayak
— she could have rented a kayak in anchorage …
We certainly could use more or better information.
I’ve actually witnessed a woman paddle a small craft out and capsize it in a suicide attempt, though though that may have been more of the sort of dramatic gesture despondent people are prone to rather than a truly serious attempt to kill themselves.
And I knew a woman who traveled hours to the city where a former boyfriend lived, to shoot herself through the heart on his doorstep, speaking of dramatic gestures.
Psychotics in particular seem prone to unbelievably strange, and sometimes elaborately planned, suicides:
Some forms of self-annihilation are elaborate and richly planned.
“I collect files on certain types of suicide, especially those involving saws. To me, the rehearsal images that must accompany such plans have to be pretty gruesome.”
[I am going to spare readers citations of case histories, which can be found below]
Here’s an example of relatively elaborate and deliberate drowning:
Friends of an Enigmatic Artist See a Riddle in His Death
“The body of the 67-year-old artist was found floating 50 feet offshore on Jan. 14, an apparent suicide by drowning. But the reasons he might have killed himself elude both the police and his friends and fans. Although some tantalizing clues emerged after his death, he had told no one of his plans to make the 50-mile drive from his home in Locust Valley to Sag Harbor, where, on the evening of Jan. 13, he jumped from a highway bridge over Sag Harbor Cove and was last seen backstroking into the distance, the police say.”
And a couple of cases involving kayaks:
Autopsy: Missing kayaker shot himself
“Douglas Winter, the Lake Superior kayaker whose body was found washed ashore Nov. 5 just north of Two Harbors, committed suicide, his death certificate states.”
Kayaker tied large rock to ankles to drown herself, officials say
” A 24-year-old kayaker who vanished during a family camping trip in Georgia had tied a rock to her ankles with an extension cord in an apparent intentional drowning, police said on Monday. Maranda Whitten’s body was located in Point Lake Monday morning, three days after she was last seen in a teal-colored kayak.”
Finally, here’s one that I think readers may just find curious:
Florida man faked his murder using a gun and a weather balloon
[it was apparently a copycat of a “CSI Las Vegas” show, presumably by someone who wanted to die but did not want to have his reputation tarnished by suicide]
Dirt I don’t need to be called names by you, a “GAY” BULLY!!!! I am sick of you thinking you know best- about everyone’s lives and sexual preference.
Kris was in a slide- of mental illness- from the CULT group she was involved in
“You the HOMOPHOBIC!!!!”
You are so stuck on that word- you know nothing about our family! You want to sound credible- but it is your sexual preference that you are attempting to cram down my throat!
My parents and I had Nothing to do with Kris’ death- we never condemned her. You don’t know anything about this investigation.
Leave Christian people alone- that don’t always think about SEX!
No one cares about you, or how nasty having the same sex together is. You will find that out at the Pearly Gates!
Homosexuality is a SIN- but we never condemned my sister- you have never heard that on this blog!!!! What a liar and waste of everyone’s time YOU are!!!!
Go bother someone else- get out of our family and stay the HELL out!!!!
Kris was murdered- but it had NOTHING to SEX [except that Keith Raniere quite possibly raped her]! We love ❤️ and miss my sister!!!!
Dear Frank, Kim, et al.,
This is Dirt’s wife. I obviously disagree with all of your thoughts & statements regarding my wife. (Yes, WIFE. Because we are legally married & are both female). Not sure what the “shim” is all about, but “she” is the correct word.
Kim is not being bullied by Dirt, and it is sad that she seems to think so.
Here’s the underlying problem: religious-based homophobia is still homophobia.
Of course, everyone has the right to have beliefs, religious or otherwise — nobody is disputing that.
But the attitude of “we love you, BUT…” is deeply damaging to gay/lesbian family members. That attitude is not true and unconditional love or acceptance. Think about it.
I know my words are likely useless in the face of the sorts of commenters who frequent this website, but here’s the main thing:
Orientation is not a “choice”, nor is it a “lifestyle”.
Straight people who don’t believe this, please ask yourself: could YOU, personally, just “choose” to be gay one day?
No?? Well, the same principle is true in reverse.
I am not even specifically referring to Kristin’s situation here, just a general comment.
But: it may be pertinent as to background and support systems. This, Dirt’s comments.
And to shadowstate and/or anyone else who thinks it is funny or useful to make fun of me — go for it, I own in all. Sure, I rescue (and love!) cats. Sure, I think Trump is not good for my country. Sure, I even joke (yes, it is a joke — duh!) that my cats feel the same way. Sure, I am a lesbian. I seriously doubt that any of those things are truly the worst things in the world. So, go ahead shadowstate &/or others, laugh it up. Your insults are predictably juvenile, but quite ineffective. Your time would be better spent figuring out why you feel the need to act like a middle school student.
This is a very good comment. Thank you.
I am not homophobic but I am opposed to rude assholes. Dirt’s hounding and mocking of Kim is extreme asshole behavior.
Just to briefly reiterate here a couple of relevant points I have responded to you regarding, more at length elsewhere:
First, I think it’s time to stop picking arguments with Kim about things that don’t really matter here, and give her the benefit of the doubt that she may just be falling back on the old religious language of her upbringing and family, even though her heart has actually moved past that.
Then, some people do in fact fall within a range of being bisexual, and so may indeed go back and forth between same-sex and heterosexual relationships over the course of their life – I am personally friends with multiple people now in same-sex marriages, for whom that has been the case. Some people may indeed have a choice of sorts, though as I rule I always assume that they are now unchanging unless given specific reason to think otherwise; relevant here, we don’t really know about Kristin Snyder, and so can’t say that her having had a female life partner absolutely rules out her possible sexual involvement with a man.
Re Criminal motive or crime of passion? Passion or Suicide?
Heidi Clifford had no motive to kill Kristen Snyder. They had no assets, save a car, and their civil union had no legal standing in Alaska.
Crime of passion? Kristen’s disappearance would have taken careful planning and accomplices. Who was helping Heidi?
The only mystery is why any of you believe Clifford murdered anyone; The only reason any of you give is Heidi Clifford did not act properly.
When you deal with the emotions from the death of a loved one there is no proper way to deal with the death. My dad died on my 12 birthday; and two days later he was the first dead man I had ever seen. Everyone handles things differently.
Is there a formal set of instructions on how to grieve and deal with shock? Because to the best of my knowledge none exist
To Mrs. Heidi Clifford,
Go live your life and be happy. Kristen, when she was healthy would have wanted that for you, just like you would have wanted that for her.
Life is too short, not to be happy and live life.
Hey Frank Dirt is actually an interesting person. She’s writing on subjects that aren’t talked about here. She’s like the modern day spokesperson for gay and transgender rights. She’s not friendly with homophobic people. If you see “shim” while you and your mysogynist gang here on the FR are at the urinal don’t be alarmed it’s equal rights and I’m peeing in the men’s room as I post this.
Dirt would be a lot more persuasive if she cleaned up her act. Take Dirt’s insensitive comment that the Snyder’s were more concerned about homophobia than they were for their daughter. [‘The Snyder family’s homophobia trumps their involvement and concern.’]
If this is the new spokesperson for gay and transgender rights, I don’t think anyone who might be persuaded with intelligent argument, is going to be persuaded.
If Dirt has a higher virtue, why not demonstrate it to others? The Snyders lost a family member. Their grief and their loss is real. And we have Dirt dirtying up this site with her name and dirty comments. Clean up, Dirt, and then you will win respect and maybe persuade all of us terrible people who do not happen to see it all your way that you’re right and we are wrong.
I am always open to being persuaded but never with a shim, and not very likely with a name like Dirt.
BTW, for the record, I am totally pro-freedom which means I support gay and transgender people being exactly what they wish to be without condemnation. I also respect Christians’ right to consider it opposed to their religious teachings. I draw the line when either side tries to impose their views by force on others.
I do not believe that being gay or transgender is any kind of sin, or contrary to God’s Will. [Not that I claim to know God’s will]. But I will defend the right of others to believe it is provided they do not impose their beliefs by law or force. I will also defend people’s right to have the sexuality that they prefer and oppose any laws that inhibit that.
I am sorry if that angers Dirt.
For the record it is SHE, as I am female. And you Frank are quite ignorant to think the Snyder’s homophobia against KS does not factor into Kristin’s murder.
That you, Frank, fail or refuse to see the bigger picture because it demolishes your NXIVM theory only goes to add to yet another person who has FAILED Kristin Snyder.
Outside of pointing the blame at Keith R. what exactly have you done for Kristin? You either started the slander or quickly co-signed on the slander against Kris!
Let me ask you this Frank, and please answer honestly from the marrow of your being, could a man, no matter how persuasive, coerce YOU into having sex with him?
I have made no conclusion about Kristin Snyder. I only have doubts that the official story is true. That is what we are exploring here. I appreciate your bringing a new subject to the debate and I appreciate the more civil tone. As for being coerced into having sex – I do not believe I could be coerced into it with either man or woman. Preferences become moot in the case of coercion.
Dirt, who or what you are is open for debate. The Adams Family character ‘It’ may or may not be a shim as well. I would absolutely love to hear your view on Kris being killed for being gay because if this is true I think your community could help find the truth. It’s a new angle and would be a devistating hate crime.
If Clifford, whom I believe had a hand in Kris’s untimely demise would it be a gay on gay hate crime. Maybe one of the lawyers in this forum knows the legal terminology for this.
Dirt, I’d think you of all people would know that quite a few females in same-sex relationships and marriages, have previously been in heterosexual relationships and marriages, as is certainly my experience among the those in same sex couples (including male) who I am friends with – I’d attribute that to the “B” which comes after “LG.” Regardless, it’s not actually plausible that someone in a same-sex relationship might (again) have intercourse with someone of the opposite sex, especially given normative social pressures that, in this case, Raniere might have exploited.
I’ve been sensitive to issues around this for longer than some of the people I know who are now in queer or non-binary lifestyles, relationships and marriages, have really truly been aware that they weren’t straight (I’ve even been to both the hetero and later lesbian weddings of one). My read is that Kim is really on her sister’s – and our – side, and just hasn’t quite shaken her inculcated religious language and superficial framing, but regardless I think it’s time to give her the benefit of the doubt and move on to issues that are more important here.
You’ve posed some incisive and tough questions about the facts of the case, and I think that’s what we need more of.
EDIT: I intended to write above, ” it’s not actually IMplausible that someone in a same-sex relationship might (again) have intercourse with someone of the opposite sex”
Also, for the record, when dealing with individuals, I operate from the assumption that their orientation is how they present and/or say it is in the present – that they’re not going to change, be seduced or converted, or whatever. But I also know, both from the life histories of friends and acquaintances, and general study of the subject, that it’s not always actually that simple.
Anonymaker: Your casual assumptions are not just completely ignorant, they are downright dangerous. No, lesbians cannot be “flipped” by men. Give it a rest.
The text message that was left for Frank Parlato, trying to clarify the credit card——of course there wasn’t enough money to pay NXIVM the money, because Kris was paid up. There was NO need to pay them any further, especially since Kris’ estate had NOT been settled yet.
What am I talking about? Closing out the final credit card, paying the funeral home here in Dillon(supplies for the memorial service), the footstone,(engraving), airline tickets to Anchorage and back, etc.
There was NO way that Esther or anyone else should have been able to get money, since Kris was already gone!! Getting money from an estate, before it is settled, is a FEDERAL crime!!! They should have been reported!!!!!
Kris’ credit card statements, that we have for Jan/Feb.03- show numerous times, that she paid NXIVM. There are $10,820.00 paid to them already. I had someone else count behind me. So, she did NOT owe them another dime!!!!!
All of these discrepancies in stories, are wrong. The notebook has ALL of the credit card statements!!!! That is what Frank will post later.
The USAA truck was involved between dad and Kris, he helped her to get that insurance- so, how did they say it was ok to sell the vehicle? Did Heidi ask or tell us about that? NO!!! Just like the death certificate being done so quickly- no one else but she knew about that- and moving on so quickly. Work!!!! Most normal people, wait 5-10 years, before they put out a death certificate- but Ms. Clifford, in her article. Said she was ready to move on. Pretty fast movements.
Ms. Clifford purchased a vehicle, according to the last phone conversation with my mother, on April 3rd, 2003- and she was leaving for the Grand Canyon, with Katy Kerri’s, and 10 other girls- on April 10th. The ad for the truck, was going into the paper, on April 11th, 2003.
The photo that Keith Rainere said he had of Kris in the Grand Canyon, was actually, Ms. Clifford and Katy Kerri’s.
How do we know this? Joe O’Hara, was in the search party, that Keith Rainere hired- to find Kris. Joe found Heidi in the Grand Canyon.
Ms. Clifford had also informed my mother, that she purchased a mini van, and that she was picking it up on the way to the Grand Canyon. So, that mini van, she still has.
My single question still, is- where is the Green Subaru car, that we rode in, to the boat memorial. We could NOT all fit in Kris’ Toyota Tacoma Truck. Where is the green car with the rack on the top? I have NOT forgotten about that car. We rode in it- when I visited Kris, by myself in ANCHORAGE!!!!! Where is that car????
Money for NXIVM- Kris was paid up- NO need to pay Esther. That is a squashed deal!!!!!
Lastly- the articles that I have found on line recently- that I have posted for people to see- find and read- those are NOT the same as the OLD JOURNAL, in the notebook- nothing matches. I did a lot of hunting to find the truth in what really happened. I will keep digging as well!
Kris got gaslighted- NO ONE cared about her.
Kris we love ❤️ and miss you!!!!!
Heidi, don’t let all these people talk about you like this! Tell them that Kris killed herself and lets move on with our lives. Everyone of these commenters are losers! Bangkok you need your balls busted for the way you talk about Miss Hutchinson and Clifford. Your worse than Scotty Potty Johnson! Heidi you better stand up for yourself and quit letting Bangkok and Peaches talk about you the way they do.
Dirt- You are just that- DIRT!!!! For the last time- my name is KIM- SCUM-
The note that was referred to, on Heidi being my legal guardian- my parents wanted to make sure my son and I were taken care of when they are gone. NO! Toni is a LIAR!!!!!!
Frank will publish those credit card statements, etc. We, as a family have NO reason to lie!!!! You are the one that is attacking everyone. DIRT BAG!!!!
Besides, I was the one that was in Anchorage, NOT you- I walked on you- every time I put my feet on the ground.
Kris got gas lighted- what a SCUM you are- walk in my shoes for 16 years- then, call me names, and scold me. You have NO right! I should NOT stoop to your level!
Kim, the note does not mention your son. How old was he at the time of Kristin’s death?
I’m curious why Frank was told that note was an example of Kristin’s handwriting, (according to his December 15th article) but you are now claiming the note was a definite forgery, so this is all a bit confusing.
Kim, I’m sorry to see that you’re having to find out the hard way, what people in internet forums like this can be like.
What you’re seeing, unfortunately, is how people sitting in front of a computer screen somewhere, can assume that they know better, than those who were actually much more involved with the real situation itself, and in a position to know – and can even jump to conclusions that are truly baseless and false.
yeah, just like AnonyMaker does 🙄
You took the words right out of my mouth you anonymous heathen.
Elucidate an example then – but you can’t do that with one-line drive-by trolling.
You’re just upset that I disrupt the comfortable alternative reality of your basement world.
Anonymaker: You seem to be an expert in literally everything. Do you have frequent headaches from so much knowledge bursting forth at all times?
You seem upset.
Kim, please respond to my question of who of Kristin’s Anchorage friends accompanied you to the Memorial service, and to which service did they accompany you ? — Loussac Library in Anchorage, or Resurrection Bay in boat (my understanding is that there were two memorials in AK. I’m wondering if Kristin’s “friends” you mentioned were ESPians, who’d been instructed to keep close to you, circle the camp, following the maxim to keep your friends close, and enemies closer… you being the enemy or unknown quantity who could damage ESP or NXIVM….
Could you please share your factual knowledge of events at the time, and branch out from the fights with the bloggers on this website over issues that are not likely to be solved and just distract from finding out whodunnit … I empathize with your reactions, but you have memory of events that could unlock truth about your sister.
Worst interview ever! Clearly this is Frank more than Heidi, IF any of this is Heidi at all, Cassandra, her wife is saying different!
I’m sure we would all love to know what Cassandra is saying, Dirt. If there is a Cassandra.
Oh is your current wife missing too??? Seward again or she never made it back from California?
Floor is yours. Or you happy with just stirring the pot?
Dirt, please call Frank or post what Cassandra is saying. No one here wants to see an innocent person hurt. We need your help.
To answer “Mexican Lady”. Heidi has said “she has been brain washed”, and hasn’t remembered anything that happened. She said “she looked for the notebook, that she gave to mom, with all of the information in it, that should have been shared years ago, but that would have helped us in Kris’ case.
Heidi has told me over the phone, “she took Eva, her mom to the classes, because: A) No sitter at home. B) Keith said he could cure her.
Eva, I am sure, did NOT understand any of what was going on, in those classes.
At the Lussac Library memorial, she kept asking, “where is Kris? “ “What happened to Kris?”. This was over and over again!!!!!
Yes, Heidi has said, she was “brain washed”.
I am sorry your family is going through this. I will keep you in my prayers.
Thank you for replying.
Do you feel that understanding that Heidi is a follower, not a leader is helpful? It does not remove responsibility from her. But to be honest you now know that given that she couldn’t think for herself. Is she even worth your time and energy?
Unlike all the other women in NXVIM, your sister thought for herself and that was dangerous in the cult. But I don’t think being angry at Heidi is worth your time.
I hope Heidi starts thinking for herself and helps the case more. I think time can help people have more insight about how they were manipulated. It looks like Heidi is reaching that point. The most important is to realize when you were not thinking for yourself, and then take action to change and make amends.
I think working together is crucial for finding your sister. That is great that Heidi provided the notebook. I hope you two can work together more. I hope we can all work together and help find your sister.
A warm hug.
OMG NO! WHO COULD HAVE BRAINWASHED HEIDI? THIS IS SERIOUS! HEIDI IF YOU HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED PLEASE SEEK HELP. THERE IS NO TELLING WHAT ELSE MAY HAVE OCCURED UNDER THIS BRAINWASHING. NANCY MAY HAVE USED HER NLP TACTICS ON YOU. IT’S NOT YOUR FAULT! HELP IS ON THE WAY
The clothes were NOT wet, but they were thrown in plastic garbage bags, like they were NOT cared about.
Yes, things of Kris’ were laid out on a table at the Lussac Library——I had a bag with me, to bring things home with me, and back to the hotel where we were staying, with relatives. After the Lussac Library, we returned one last time, to Kris and Heidi’s home, to make sure, we had NOT forgotten anything, said “good bye” to everyone, we knew we would never see them again- but that is okay, unless they come to our home state.
Once at the hotel, the air was thinner, easier to breath, and there were relatives there, that we knew, cared about our family.
NO- were NOT cared about at Kris at Kris and Heidi’s home. If we were in the home, and there was a phone call from home for us, the girls would answer and say, “they are NOT here right now,”, even if they knew we were.
Between the allegation, and NOT getting phone calls from SC- and other friends/relatives, moving to the Inn and Suites of Anchorage, was a WELCOMED issue!!!!
Our family was in Anchorage, for a LONG period of time, to search for Kris, which, being just the 3 of us, was very, very hard.
On the other hand, GOD was upholding us on Eagle’s wings, and giving us the daily strength, to go on.
The lies, the heart breaks, the unanswered questions, and now, 16 years later, we, as a family, with Frank and Ashley’s help, are making some head way, to see NXIVM gas lighted us, while we were in Anchorage too. That is horrible!!!!!
As a family, we stayed together, prayed together, and hoped by some miracle, that Kris would be found, but that was NOT to be.
The attempted gas lighting of me, on the way to the boat memorial, while the girls continued to play the song by Alabama, “In pictures”, because of the allegation toward a family member, was very unwelcomed. That was just to show how in educated they were about our family. They didn’t know anything about us, in the period of time that we were there. To try to keep beating sone one up, is cold!!!!!
Once the boat memorial, and the Lussac memorial were over, there seemed to be an up side to the girls…..nearing us leaving!!!!!! They knew we, as a family, would NOT be asking any more questions.
But, now, 16 years later, learning the fact that the girls with held the pregnancy, and did NOT tell us, nor the law, that is perjury!!!!! 5 year mandatory jail sentence, NO questions asked!!! This information should have been given to us as a family, and to the law, because if it had, and Heidi knew Kris’ credit card bills, would show, she had been to Albany, Philadelphia(to visit a family friend), South Carolina, and other places. We, as a family, have the credit card statements to prove it. Heidi knew there was a chance, Keith had raped and impregnated my sister, she CAN NOT refute credit card statements.
Heidi has also told me over the phone, that years later, going through things, she found pizza receipts, that Kris bought on the way to Seward——and turned them in to the FBI. Why didn’t she make copies for our family to see. We have NO proof of these receipts.
Heidi also has said, “Kris was in NO shape to drive 2 hours to Seward”, so, her drive her or who was in that truck, that was NEVER checked for blood, because the real truth was NEVER told to the LAW!!!!!
Colorado- where Heidi has said, “Kris was showing she wasn’t well”. That is correct!! She was NOT well, but that was another time, where, if Heidi had helped me, we could have put Kris and me, on a plane back to SC. for medical help for her. I was the one that called my parents, and told them, she wasn’t well. NO ONE else cared…..she was gas lighted by everyone in Anchorage.
Kris was either drugged by NXIVM, or killed by someone. I have asked Heidi where the beige jacket in the back of the truck went, with blood on the sleeve of it, I get the same answer every time——“I don’t know”. That is mighty strange!!!
The other issues are for a later post, but as for Heidi’s story, it does NOT hold water. She never picked us up at the airport, but was wearing Kris’ clothing and sunglasses when we arrived at the house. She took them off, and gave them to us, especially dad’s sunglasses that he gave to Kris. They were put in a separate bag.
As for Heidi telling people, “we took everything”, she is full of shit!” She offered Kris’ belongings to us….she gave mom a notebook, and told her, “never to share it with anyone”. Years later, (16), we find credit card receipts, etc, a journal that she wrote, the last ten days of Kris’ life, (contradictory notes on line), Frank will publish those later. There are personal notes that Kris wrote in there, so, this evidence can’t be refuted. We, as a family, are NOT liars.
We paid for Kris’ foot stone at the funeral home, we have paid for everything for her. There has been NO help from Anchorage.
We LOVE ❤️ and miss Kris. We needed to set the record straight!!!!
Frank, I’d like you to ask Heidi if she’s willing to take a polygraph test for an interview, to verify if she’s telling the truth or not.
She just seems so cold about her WIFE’s death and how quickly she moved on from it.
That’s not a normal grieving process.
I don’t think she truly LOVED Kristin. I think she’s playing you for a fool, Frank.
I just want to see what her response is.
I’m guessing that she wants nothing to do with any polygraph test —- cuz she’s a lying sack of shit.
They weren’t married. There was no wife. It wasn’t legal to be married back then. Stop rewriting history.
Shut up, you wannabe know-it-all. They had a civil union in Vermont!
A civil union is NOT a marriage.
Scott is a dimwitted dickhead who will do anything to minimize gay/lesbian relationships. Saying repeatedly that a civil union is not a marriage is both meaningless and ridiculous. The ONLY reason that civil unions were not legal “marriages” is that bozos who are like Scott denied gay and lesbian people the LEGAL RIGHT to get married. STFU, Amway boy. Bend over and shove your small-minded ignorance way up your poop chute. And shame on Frank for publishing BS like Scotty Potty spews. 🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻
See how easy it is to get a Libtard worked up? LOL
Get it straight people! Scott is homophobic. He is not transphobic. Hello! Remember Mardi Gras?
“It’s not gay if you make a mistake.”
-Scott Johnson’s Mardi Gras story.
They were more seriously committed than many legally married couples, and had things set up to have most of the same legal benefits as well.
When there have been stories about the polygamous LeBarons and their wives, have you thought to raise similar objections? (A polygamist can only be married to one, which is arguably void anyway due to bigamy anyway, plus because of their beliefs they often don’t even bother to legally register even one)
More seriously committed? That must be why Clifford didn’t go home or the hospital with Snyder, because she was SO committed to her. LOL
Polygamists and gay couples are apples and oranges. Polygamists believe they can have (be married to) more than one wife. But because polygamy is illegal, they get around this “nuisance” of the law by officially marrying one of them and then just f*cking the rest of them. Problem solved.
Heidi loved Kristin so much, she dropped ridiculous money to follow her to the seminar.
Nobody lies on this site more than bangcock.
Bangkok just because she’s cold and moved on quickly doesn’t mean she’s a killer. Just because she was taking trips to Colorado with a bunch of her friends doesn’t make her heartless. Girls just want to have fun. What better way than to honor her missing wife by taking a girls’ vacay to the Grand Canyon? Kristin was probably a leach to Heidi and just needed to move on with her life as fast and furious as possible. You all need to quit picking on this old lady. Let her live her life in peace!
Bangkok, I’d like to ask if you’re willing to call up a couple of death and grieving specialists, describe Clifford’s case to them, get their opinions, and report back to us what knowledgeable people actually say?
It’s not fair to ask others to do work if you’re not willing to chip in, is it?
I made a cursory effort just to be a good sport, and turned up this from an Ivy League specialist in the field:
Why Some People Don’t Grieve
BY DR. GEORGE BONANNO
“Q: Why do certain people not exhibit any grief patterns?
A: Up until recently, it hasn’t really been known. Most investigators in the field, I think, would say that people who don’t show grief have something wrong with them — they either are defensive, or cold, or they never cared about the person to begin with, or they weren’t attached. I had argued no, maybe they’re just healthy people. We followed a group of people in Michigan over six years in a bereavement study where we knew a lot about the people before the loss occurred. We showed that about half the sample showed no symptoms at any point in the study. They just were not depressed before or after the loss, and we found that they were healthy people. They had fine relationships. The interviewers did not find them cold or aloof, and they did not score high on a measure we had of avoidant attachment. That doesn’t mean that a healthy person won’t grief also, but it seemed that they [a person who feels no grief] might feel sad, they might miss the person, but they keep functioning. We know that the people who don’t show grief, it’s fair to say, are healthy people.”
George Bonanno is an assistant professor of psychology and education at Columbia University. He received his Ph.D. from Yale University. His areas of research interest include stream of consciousness, repressive personality style, emotional avoidance, and the processes of grief and mourning.
p.s. I think it’s way too much to expect Clifford to submit to a polygraph test – and who’s going to pay for that, are you offering? – to try to settle a tempest in a teapot on an internet blog. Maybe if the Snyder family was willing to be actively involved, that might change the calculus.
I know another type of person that doesn’t grieve………A COLD PREMEDITATIVE KILLER!
Which shows there can be two or more equally plausible-seeming and yet inherently contradictory theories when it comes to something like this. Without better evidence one way or another, we’re no better off than if we tossed a coin to determine what we wanted to believe was the truth.
The Snyder family’s homophobia trumps their involvement and concern.
-No one who knows the facts of the case and has any intelligence believes you murdered Kristen.
I am sorry for your loss.
Ignore the haters!
For me it was weird at first that :
—Heidi did not stay home with her allegedly crazy partner instead of going to the Nxivm course. How many of us would have taken our partner to the doctor instead ?
—Heidi did not protest at having her partner kicked out of class. Nor did she worry about going home with her and let a total in control.
— Heidi declares her dead 💀 super fast. Most partners wait for decades to declare that their loved one is dead. Not just a few days.
However, i don’t think Heidi orchestrated anything . She paid Nxivm for courses. She was a follower of a cult. She is a follower not a leader. A follower would do exactly what Heidi did. Go to the course of the cult leader says she should go (regardless of health ) . Let her partner be kicked out and taken by strangers if that is what the cult leader said (regardless of health). Pay the cult leader money and declare the death of her partner . Even if that hurt her wive’s family terribly .
Heidi was a follower of the cult. I hope she becomes a leader and saves her soul. She let her partner down 🙁
Unfortunately, Heidi listened to the class leaders – but she was new to NXIVM. She was really following Kristin.
If she was following Kristin, she would have listened to what she said about Keith and taken her to a hospital. She did what the cult leaders asked her to do.
Yes. After she followed Kristin to the class. My point is, she wasn’t in deep.
False. If she was following Krisitn she would have followed her to her truck with her mother and went home together.
She did what a calculated killer would do. Invite some people over like Ed and Ester to form an alibi, cast shadow on an organization that is taking her time away from her lover. That will teach both Nxivm and Kris to disobey her.
“All I got was a truck. I sold it and paid off the rest of Kris’ debt to ESP.” Really? The bank statements show Kristen paid in full for her ESP class. What about the 5 shares Kristin had in her Ecologik business? Heidi had 5 shares and Kris had 5. So much of peoples personal information is online. I bet next Heidi Clifford will claim she has dementia like her mom had or she’ll say she was brainwashed.
What bank statements? Show them. You people love to make claims with zero backup documentation.
“The bank statements show Kristen paid in full for her ESP class.” Can you please explain – how do we know it was paid in full? Was payment for Heidi and her Mom somehow a part of the equation?
“5 shares Kristin had in her Ecologik business” Do we know the value of the 5 shares?
IMO, making up that ESP demanded payment is even more bizarre than ESP actually doing so. Plus, demanding the $ is so something Keith would do. “How can I cause even more heartbreak?” or “How can I shift attention off us?”
I’m still trying to figure the value on the shares out. Maybe Frank can ask Heidi next time she crawls out of that dank hole she thrives in. If anyone wants to help, this is how you spell Kris’s business name. Ecologik
Also there is a Boston Investment that had I believe 5 withdraws of 50.00 increments the day before she went missing.
As far as I can tell the only one with access to Kris’s Bank account is Heidi Clifford. Her name is printed on her checks as the Secretary.
The Snyders had NOT made contact with Heidi Clifford, since 2003. Things ended on a very bad note, once they left Anchorage.
To clear some more loop holes up- Heidi Clifford had the Snyder’s phone number, and could have very easily gotten their attention, that A) Kris’ attempted suicide attempt in the snow—-this screamed “Red Flag”- and hospitalization, despite what some NXIVM morons had to say.
Then, the disruptive behavior in the classroom- if you love someone, you are going to walk or run over people to get them medical help. Heidi takes care of children, herself, and that OT degree- screams, DO NO HARM!!!! NXIVM had her doing the opposite of what that degree says.
Then, Heidi contradicts herself about the pistol, and Kathy Morton- (Heidi journal final)- Emotional Detachment: I Heidi, sent Eva(her mother), and Kris home alone, I followed 30 minutes later. I had LOTS of guns in the house, I put my revolver in the trunk of Kathy Morton’s car. What about the other weapons).
Heidi (journal final), In one journal-she said, “she did NOT invite Ed and Esther over, and in the one on line- said, “they excepted my invitation, they arrived at around 8:00-9:00 pm, to wash laundry, sit in the hot tub, and play drums.
Then, Heidi admits, it was a beautiful night in the hot tub, Heidi, Kris, Ed and Esther- Ed was describing “At Cause”. Kris was catatonic- very still, then, the next page, Kris was looking down, making dark, small sentences.
Then, the next sheet, Kris couldn’t move- but she was able to get out of the hot tub and play music with Ed. Then, next page, I Heidi, Kris was only able to play one song. She didn’t say anything. You can’t have it both ways. Either Kris said something, or she didn’t. Heidi knew Ed and Esther came over, to keep her from taking Kris to the hospital.
Heidi paid Esther the money from the truck, the death certificate hadn’t been gotten, and the ESTATE had NOT been settled. People are NOT allowed to get money, unless the ESTATE has been settled. The legal ramifications are severe. Heidi says, Esther continued to threaten her about the bill. The credit card statements are here, we, as a family, know she was paid up, for NXIVM.
Kris traveled to Albany, NY, before coming home, to SC- and more than likely, she and Keith had met—-again, this is confirmed in the file.
Kris traveled home to Anchorage, Heidi says, “Kris asked me to hold her wedding ring, and that she was pregnant with Keith’s child”. There fore, Kris was trying to get help in class, but everyone ignored her, gaslighted her. Kris had also gotten up and walked out, in the middle of a forum, run by Keith, which is unheard of….and she never returned.
The times that Heidi says, Kris was kicked out of class, the agreement between Elaine Smiloff, and Heidi, was that Elaine was to stay with Kris at their home, until Heidi got home, (Kenny powers told me he lived in the home, the last 3 weeks, because Heidi was afraid of Kris). Kenny should have let them in, and Heidi should have taken Kris to the hospital. Kris was never taken home, and never seen again. Where is my sister????? Anybody????
Next point, Heidi DID NOT call The Snyders, until after Kris went missing-72 hours later. There were NO phone calls to them about ANYTHING concerning their daughter up until that time.
The Snyders, upon their arrival to Anchorage, were told, a family member had been accused of a heinous crime, of abuse, but NEVER was the allegation of RAPE/ PREGNANCY brought up by Ms. Clifford, until 16 years later, in a phone conversation, at the Snyder’s home, with ID Discovery, and Frank Parlato present…..what a SHOCK!!!!!! The Snyder’s had been left out of the loop home ALL of that time????
If Kris gave Heidi her wedding ring, why didn’t Heidi take Kris to the hospital right then?
The Snyder’s had NOTHING to do at how quickly the death certificate was gotten, by Ms. Clifford and Mr. Kenny Powers. It is authentic. That was checked out. In NORMAL situations, the death certificate is NOT gotten for 5-10 years, just to see if things will change.As Heidi has said, she was ready to move on.
Things have been very difficult for the Snyder’s, but they have been careful, to make sure their facts are correct. They were in Anchorage, for quite a while- hoping their daughter would be found. They took part in ALL memorial services, and held their own, in their own state. They were NOT done FAST. They were planned carefully and well.
We LOVE ❤️ and Miss KRIS very much. Her life and legacy live on in her family!!!!!!
Frank, after reading Kim Snyder’s post I’m beginning to think that Heidi Clifford is a lying sack of shit, again.
Frank, if you keep giving credibility to Heidi’s version then you’re contradicting your own version, because if Keith didn’t have an affair with Kristin then he had no motive.
Also, if Kristin really blamed herself for the space shuttle then that kinda makes the murder angle less plausible.
You can’t keep straddling the fence, Frank.
Either Heidi is lying or your own version of events is not credible.
I suggest you start taking a solid position and stop dithering.
You can’t embrace both Heidi Clifford’s version and Kim Snyder’s data. One of them is telling the truth. Not both.
You miss the point. Frank is uncovering information. It’s not a journalist’s job to immediately take a position. The goal is to get information on the record and see if it is consistent or inconsistent with other information in order to get to the truth. Frank doesn’t have a version, he wasn’t there. Stop being so stupid.
Where the hell was the kayak’s paddle? Why no kayak? How about that no bodies were ever lost, when sought in those waters at the bay? Who parked the truck with the driver’s seat up too close to the steering wheel for how Kristin (or Heidi) would have positioned the seat? Who parked that pickup truck, key outside in the driver’s door lock?
Somebody shorter than Kristin seems to have driven the truck to Millers Landing and parked it right where Nina Cowell could zip right on home. Literally. Like literally, like Nancy Salzman is Kris Jenner and Lauren Salzman is a buttless Kim Kardashian, only with more sex tapes for blackmail.
Did Clare Bronfman $$ come out to Alaska after Kristin Snyder disappeared? Were there donations or endowments? Or would those have been someone’s else’s “ticket to ride?”
“Heidi said she would have taken Kristin seriously if she knew then what she knows now.” That’s the thing. There were many ESP/”Nexium” people who participated in the Anchorage ESP intensive and who were around Kristin Snyder.
That ESP intensive began on January 26, 2003, and Kristin disappeared from there on February 6th, 2003. That’s what? Twelve days, not exactly just a “hiya, nice to meet meet you” moment.
She was last seen after being ejected from the group, being driven away from the Landmark Hotel under Elaine Smiloff’s escort. There are ones still refusing to tell the truth, who knew then what Kristin’s loved ones, family and friends know now.
Many have been named specifically, right here. Some still follow Raniere or whatever’s left of his crap, 17 years later. Some like Nina Cowell are said to have quit. But none of them give a damn?
Thanks to Frank Parlato for putting light on this. Thanks for so many articles and art and incredible photos, for keeping on keeping on and for helping Kristin’s loved ones. I keep hoping something is going to shift, that somebody will wake up and decide to respect their own conscience for once and tell the truth.
How many Nxians did it take to write a suicide note?
There are quite a few holes in this story.
Let’s start at how quick things moved along.
Kris’ belongings were out in a wet garage for her family to retrieve- and yet, if one is grieving, you would NOT even think about doing this. The family was told to take her belongings home- which they packed up carefully and gently, some went home by Fed Ex, some regular mail, some other ways. But certainly, you would NOT let the family of the deceasing find the belongings in a dark, damp garage- really???
Next- the truck was purchased by Kristin, and the insurance- by the military USAA insurance group. Esther should NOT have been given any money from the estate!!!! It had NOT been settled yet. NO money should have been given out.
Next, why weren’t the Snyders called to be told their loving daughter was so ill, she had blamed herself for the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster, she was saying she was pregnant?
And yet, a family member was accused of a very heinous crime, and the pregnancy story was left for 16 years later. What the heck?
Next, the handwriting with the suicide letter- does NOT match! It has been checked- and yet, the only thing Heidi claims she has, is a “Valentine’s Day card”, because the Snyders took everything else from her. That is NOT true- she offered Kris’ things to the Snyders- there were belongings of Kris, that were being gotten rid of, at the Lussac Library- the public memorial for Kris. Talk about moving on quickly.
Next, there have been contradictory statements, found online, that were never told by Ms. Clifford, that I have found, and will publish later.
Kris’ memory has been tarnished, and stepped on by people that did NOT get to find out what kind of person she was, or to LOVE ❤️ her.
I found a note in the house that stated, I, Kris, in the event of my parents deaths, Heidi Clifford would make a Great Legal Guardian for my sister, Kim Snyder. Love, Kris.
That note is NOT in Kris’ hand writing. Where did that come from? It wasn’t from Kris- so, who wrote that???
The Snyder’s are SO shocked, by the many contradictory things that have been told on their loved one, that hopefully, one day, people will stop lying and tell the truth.
The Snyder’s are shocked that the death certificate happened so quickly, because a person wants to move on, and that, now, stories change.
So many loopholes need fixing!!!!!
Hi Kim thank you for setting things straight with the wet belongings. Now do you mean to tell us that Kris’s belongings were being set out for people to pillage through at the Library during her memorial?
Do you think that is of any significance that Kenny Powers name is on the back of your sisters presumptive death certificate?
“I found a note in the house that stated, I, Kris, in the event of my parents deaths, Heidi Clifford would make a Great Legal Guardian for my sister, Kim Snyder. Love, Kris. That note is NOT in Kris’ hand writing.”
Sorry, but not necessarily.
A while back I pointed out that even on a known sample of Kristin’s handwriting, she did things like switching from cursive to print, and mixing the two, writing characters differently on the same page. For some reason, her handwriting seems to have been all over the place – maybe she was even ambidextrous.
I was going to put in a response to Kim, that one or more experienced forensic handwriting specialists needs to provide a professional opinion after looking over the suicide note and other materials – and from what I know, they are going to want to see a lot more samples of her writing than we’ve seen, in order to form a good opinion. I don’t think we can figure out anything useful here from the limited and inconsistent evidence, other than that there’s more work to be done.
Also, if Kim is referring to the note I think she is, that appears to have been written with some sort of fancier pen, which can both cause changes to handwriting, and be representative of a deliberate attempt at better writing – I personally use special pens for formal notes, because it does result in my normally awful handwriting looking rather more elegant. Plus it makes no sense that some note like that would have been forged and left laying around; I think we’re getting into trying to read much too much into life’s normal randomness.
Yeah. Good point. How about this – that note and the main suicide note were probably written by the same individual.
Probably, yes. My guess is that Heidi wrote the main page while sitting in one or more places, perhaps just really well propped up in her truck, and then dashed off the second at the last minute, maybe even after she’d gotten out of the truck, which accounts for some differences.
If Kris and Heidi were not legally married, how did Heidi have any legal right to declare her dead? Wouldn’t that fall onto the Snyder family to request a death certificate? Legally they were her legal family? A civil marriage would not give Heidi any legal rights to make that decision for Kris?
They were in a LEGAL civil union. FFS. Jesus Christ on a cracker. you people are so damn ignorant. Wills, trusts, and other legal documents have been used since forever to give gay & lesbian partners legal rights that were DENIED to them before marriage rights became legal. Heidi and Kris likely had the correct documents to protect themselves and give each other the right to settle the estate, etc. etc.
Heidi Clifford was POA.
I agree. Bombshell! Why does Kim Snyder AND her kid need guardians?!!!! Is Kim not an adult?!!!!
Maybe Kim was next on the list to be “suicided”?
The note you describe was posted here on December 15th, with the claim that it was an example of Kristin’s real signature.
But you’re saying it was definitely not her handwriting and that someone else wrote that note?
Kimmy, regarding the handwriting, since you and your mom have worked so close with Frank, why didn’t or haven’t you provided Frank with samples of Kristin’s handwriting? Obviously you would have kept everything that you have from your missing sister.
Where was this note regarding guardianship found? And when was it found? Why would Kris say Heidi would make a good guardian and not Kris herself who is your sister? Who provided Frank this note to publish on his blog? You or Heidi? You are an adult, not a child, why would you need a guardian? Or was what Frank said Toni Natalie said true? And if so EVERYTHING you have stated on Frank blog is seriously questionable?
Kim, I appreciate your following up on questions about your sister’s involvement with NXIVM and disappearance, and understand that it must be distressing for you.
I’m concerned that you may be getting a bit too caught up in the sort of speculation and theorizing that goes on here. In my now relatively long life experience with such things, I’ve found, and seen, that out of our innate desire to find meaning and make sense of the world, it’s possible to come up with all sorts of narratives or theories that may seem plausible but aren’t necessarily true.
Humans are imperfect and life is messy or sometimes unsettling random, and almost every situation has things about it that might seem inconsistent or even strange when subject to close scrutiny. As far as things that might not initially make sense to us, there’s a good example in a response I just made to Bangkok, with a quote from an Ivy League researcher; it turns out that some people grieve much less than we might expect, and even professionals who worked in the field were mistaken in their assumptions about what was going on regarding that until research revealed the mechanisms at work.
I suggest you focus on getting more information, particularly pressing those involved to finally tell the truth about everything they know, rather than trying to re-sift and re-hash the same old information that has never provided satisfactory or conclusive answers. As far as pressing people for accountability, I have some ideas in mind, and a bit of background work that I’ve already done, which I’ll say more about in the future.
p.s. I’m not sure if this is part of what you’re referring to, but the 2004 Times Union article about the case reported “The Snyders said they have no reason to suspect their daughter was ever molested. When she last spoke to her parents, Kristin Snyder told them that she was responsible for the explosion of the space shuttle Columbia, her mother said.” If your mother remembers things differently now, that’s just how our fallible human minds work, and it’s a reminder that we can place too much weight on people’s imperfect recollections. I myself once had an experience in which I realized that I had gone over the story of something very disturbing so many times in my mind, that my recollection of some of the facts and events had slowly shifted to the point where I no longer remembered what was true, and I had to go back to some of my own notes from the time to not only refresh, but correct, my memory.
It’s good to hear from Heidi. There are some things like those addressed here that need to be cleared up, due to lack of good information.
And it may – or may not – be that in all the cases of drownings in Resurrection Bay, bodies were recovered. But I think it’s likely that if Snyder had in mind not to be searched for – or found – she would have paddled out the several miles into open water; and from what I could find on a quick fact-check about drownings in the are, of all the people from Seward who were swept out to sea in the 1964 earthquake (presumably prior to the harbormaster’s time), none of their bodies were ever recovered.b
I’ve noticed that once we get good information and clear accounts, such as when Kim clarified the Snyder family’s knowledge and perspective, some of these things turn out to be less mysterious – and some of the theorizing seems less plausible.
People react to traumas like the death of a loved one in different ways. NXIVM’s self-serving conspiracy theory about Snyder having faked her death is partly based on reading a particular meaning into how, and how relatively quickly, Clifford sought closure, but as we see here there are perfectly understandable and entirely plausible explanations, even if that’s not how we ourselves might react. For example:
Why the Five Stages of Grief Are Wrong
“Studies now show that grievers don’t progress through these stages in a lock-step fashion. Consequently, when any of us loses someone we love, we may find that we fit the stages precisely as Kubler-Ross outlined, or we may skip all but one. We may race through them or drag our feet all the way to acceptance. ”
“She was simply worried about Kristin. But she did not believe for a moment that Kristin had an affair with Keith Raniere.”
This contradicts Mr. Parlato’s Raniere motive.
What Clifford thought at the time has nothing to do with what Frank thought Raniere’s motive could have been.
Where is the proof of sale?
There was no lawsuit. That’s proof enough for me.
A good interview, Frank.
At least you asked Heidi the tough questions. I respect that.
Although, Heidi’s answers seem to contradict Frank’s belief that NXIVM had a hand in Kristin’s death.
Esther Chiappone — or ANYBODY from NXIVM — would NEVER have threatened Heidi with Kristin’s bill IF they truly had a hand in Kristin’s death by murdering her.
How do we know this?
Well, according to Frank, Nancy Salzman allegedly paid $50k in hush money (and gave a snack bar) to silence the last person who saw Kristin alive.
Yet, Frank is now telling us that he believes Esther Chiappone was trying to harass Kristin’s estate for a mere $9k, thereby drawing attention to themselves for less than 20% of the money Nancy spent to silence this issue?
That defies basic logic, Frank.
If NXIVM was willing to pay $50k (and a snack bar) to silence a witness and distance themselves from Kristin’s life, they would NEVER have harassed Kristin’s estate for a mere $9k.
Also… If Kristin knew she was pregnant then she’d likely have taken an at-home pregnancy test, which she’d likely have shown to Heidi to prove it. But it’s possible she didn’t.
If Kristin was truly as BATSHIT CRAZY as Heidi is claiming (i.e. if Kristin really believed she caused the Space Shuttle disaster) then WHY would Kim Snyder think that NXIVM had murdered Kristin, since she was obviously a PSYCHOTIC MANIAC and easily capable of killing herself.
As for me, I never knew that Kristin was truly batshit crazy. In fact, I had assumed that Kim Snyder (her sister) had refuted those claims about the space shuttle disaster, at least that’s what she said a few months ago when Toni Natalie claimed it.
If Kristin was truly a PSYCHOTIC MANIAC then it was likely a suicide.
Frank can’t logically claim that Kristin was basically OUT OF HER MIND while simultaneously claiming that she was not capable of suicide.
BTW: The theory that Kristin could not have driven herself to the bay area (because of her mental state) is purely wishful thinking from people who WANT to believe it was murder. You cannot use WISHFUL THINKING as the basis to RULE OUT ‘suicide’ in an effort to frame NXIVM for murder.
Either Kristin was batshit crazy or she wasn’t.
If she was batshit crazy, then suicide is the most likely explanation. Thus, if Heidi is telling the truth then it was most likely suicide. …and I apologize for my mean remarks towards Heidi, LOL.
But if she wasn’t as crazy as Heidi says, then murder becomes possible.
But you can’t have it both ways. Frank and Kim Snyder need to stop trying to have it both ways.
Oh. No middle ground allowed. Black or white. And everyone had 100% clarity at the time. Gotcha, D-bag.
Bangkok, you make some fair points.
Just to clarify, I think we’ve heard somewhat different things over time from the Snyder family regarding what they did or didn’t know about Kristin’s claim to be responsible for the space shuttle disaster, and Kim’s accounts of what she observed and knew about her sister’s mental decline seem somewhat inconsistent. They didn’t deny she was saying things like that, either, but I think it has contributed to the signs of her mental deterioration or even psychosis, being downplayed and not given due attention.
Clifford has also told about Snyder going outside and laying in the snow one night, in a way that sounds as if it might have been a possible suicide attempt, though that wasn’t entirely clear. And Clifford had someone take her handgun out of the house, which is of course what you do in response to someone being suicidal.
Things like those facts and important pieces of background have been mentioned in one, maybe two posts, while there’s been seemingly endless speculation about tangential details like the flotation qualities of kayaks of unknown construction.
Sure, remove a gun, well what about all the other guns she owned? Give me a break. Clifford talking about Kris lying in the snow is her reminiscing on how Kris looked dead in the snow. IMO of course.
Very clever Mr. Bangkok you have made many interesting points. These are the top 3 that stand out to me.
1) “Nancy Salzman allegedly paid $50k in hush money (and gave a snack bar) to silence the last person who saw Kristin alive.” Nina Cowell
2) “But she did not believe for a moment that Kristin had an affair with Keith Raniere.”
3) “Esther Chiappone — or ANYBODY from NXIVM — would NEVER have threatened Heidi with Kristin’s bill IF they truly had a hand in Kristin’s death by murdering her.”
For the record, I 100% believe Heidi Clifford.
I’ll add one other thing – I’d guess Keith was telling Nancy, and Nancy was telling Esther, and Esther was telling Heidi that the bill needed to be paid. “In the name of ethics – Kristin owes the money and it must be paid. It’s only what’s right.” Keith used this BS shifter strategy when he wanted to shape a narrative.
Why do I think Keith demanded the money to be paid? Not for the money. FOR DEFLECTION and to create a DIVERSION. Same reason the suicide note spoke negatively about NXIVM. Same reason Keith hired his own investigator to find Kristin. Same reason Keith threw out the idea of Kristin running away and still being alive. A diversion. A preemptive defense. An actual defense if he ever needed it. A way to keep law enforcement off his trail. A way to keep NXIVM members off his trail.
With all this (the diversions) going on, how could NXIVM possibly have been behind it? Right? Dipshits like Bangcock buy this argument hook, line, and sinker. (But keep in mind – Bangcock is simply looking to cause the biggest outrage she can. She doesn’t care about anything other than causing drama. She may even agree with me. But she certainly doesn’t care about this topic. She wants attention and to get a reaction.)
Keep in mind, at the time this was going on, it would have been WAY worse for it to have come out that Kristin was pregnant with Keith’s kid, than dealing with the diversions Keith created.
That may just show that it’s possible to come up with two plausible-sounding but completely contradictory theories, based on the same set of facts.
And actually, it’s one of the known flaws of conspiracy theorizing, that there is a tendency to explain away any factual or logical inconsistencies, by claiming they are just further evidence of how deviously complex the conspiracy was. Occam’s Razor tells us to look for the simplest explanation, and the history of these sorts of cases bears that out.
Also, Raniere didn’t hire investigators until long after Snyder’s disappearance, so that seems to have solely been some attempt to bolster the self-serving internal conspiracy theory placing blame for her behavior and disappearance on others. Plus the fact that Raniere and the Bronfmans blindly wired something like half a million dollars to unknown private investigators shows that they were hapless and incompetent, not cunning and capable of pulling off a complex plot.
Speaking of multiple theories, there are actually at least 3 different, conflicting theories of Snyder’s death, in addition to the official finding; and there’s apparently even some evidence for NXIVM’s theory that Snyder is still alive, supposedly including things like receipts and a photograph. Just by the numbers, the chance of any one of the 3 being true is roughly 33%, while if you give any weight at all to the possibility of what law enforcement investigators determined and a jury unanimously verified, then the probability of any of the multiple alternative narratives drops precipitously.
The timeline and the important known facts need to be reiterated.
1. At her parents’ house, Kristin’s mother noted Kristin’s legs were shaven. Something she never did, but she would need to do so per her coach if she was being invited to see Keith.
2. Kristin spent 3 days at Nxivm headquarters without being seen during the day, and the assumption is that during that time she was with Keith.
3. Keith held an all person meeting after that, and during that meeting, Kristin walked out in front of Keith. Major put down to Keith and probably led to her death. Keith would not have put up with that. Nobody else has ever been known to do that, but then Keith only had a bachelor’s degree, and was a con, while Kristin had a Master’s degree. So hard to take from a smart woman!
4. Classes started on Sunday 1/26 and it was not until Monday 2/3 that Kris first stated that she was pregnant. It was at that time Esther admitted to talking to Nancy several times about Kristin (before Kristin caused any problems at the class.) Was the plan from Keith through Nancy to Esther to poison Kristin so they could easily do away with her?
5. Ed had already done an EM with Kristin on Thursday 1/30 concerning “sexual abuse.” Did that have to do with false memories, or was it in reference to her contact with Keith? Note also that Esther was there as well as the time Esther and Ed came over to do their clothes washing. Gave Esther a lot of time to case the house if she needed to make any changes in plans.
6. Heidi thinks that Kristin is psychotic on Thursday 2/4.
7. On Wednesday 2/5, Kristin states that she wants to “live and never abort humanity”. Emphasis is on the word abort as she thinks she is pregnant, and her coach Karen would have suggested that she abort, as Keith required.
8. On Thursday 2/6, Kristin is sent home with Elaine, who does not see her to her door, and therefore there has been no evidence provided that Kristin even made it to home. The last one known to see her alive did what with her? I think that there is a lot more that is not being said here by Elaine.
9. Same date, someone drove Kristin’s truck, before class let out at 7:00 pm, by proof of the time on the gas receipt.
10. Two people got out of that truck at the landing, initial police report noticed footprints leading from both the driver’s side and the passenger’s side. No footprints noted going back into the truck. Passenger side door closed, driver door open with the key in the lock. Two people obviously came in that truck at the landing.
There are no other viable theories other than Kristin was murdered. She had a strong relationship with her mother and would sooner or later let her know she was ok. If she had just disappeared, Keith’s investigation would have found her, obviously, as that would have exonerated Keith. As it is, he could be charged as an accessory to murder, or possibly the murder itself, as he planned it.
And for all his glorious efforts, let’s give a special thanks to Kristen Keeffe.
How much you wanna to bet that if Heidi failed to pay the NXIVM bill, they would have sued Kristin’s estate?
I certainly hope Keith is currently enjoying all the money he’s taken from others. It can’t buy him much now.