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Raniere’s attorney speak up – call people who claim Raniere hurt them ‘crazy’, ‘wrong’, ‘not that many’

Channel 10 Albany posted their report of Wednesday’s court hearing: https://www.news10.com/news/local-news/top-ranking-nxivm-members-appear-in-court/1323546944?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_WTEN

Perhaps most interesting is how the lawyers representing Keith Raniere express their confidence that he is innocent.

One of his attorneys, Paul Derohannesian, said, “We feel really good I think so does Keith and we were just talking about this yesterday and today how good our client feels and how good we feel about it right now.”

The lawyers said there are many more people who have been helped by Raniere and his groups than those who think they have been hurt by him.

Of those who claim Raniere hurt them, another one of his attorneys, Marc Agnifilo, said, “They’re crazy. That’s my answer.”

DerOhannesian said of NXIVM critics. “They’re wrong and there are not that many.”





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  • Notice that all three prosecutors are female.
    And also notice that all three defense lawyers for Claire Bronfman are female.

    Both the US DOJ and Claire Bronfman understand the gender politics inherent in this case.

  • You guys are arguing about a non issue. Nobody in the jury pool gives a flying f*ck about what the lawyers are saying at press conferences months before trial.

    The REAL issue (impacting the potential jury pool) is the demeanor of the lawyer with the mustache.

    He’s got a very sour looking “scowl” or “smirk” on his face, even just standing there.

    The mere sight of his sour looking face makes me cringe. I’m betting that everybody in the jury pool will agree that he just doesn’t look or sound very honorable with that smirk/scowl on his face. That mustache only makes him look even more like a bastard.

    He looks like he should be defending the mafia Dons. To be honest, IMO he looks more like a mafia Don than he does a likable defense attorney who’s supposed to appeal to potential jury members. Every minute that guy opens his mouth is another nail in Keith’s coffin.

  • Flowers and Johnson are two lonely cuckolds who were in the Society of Protectors. Their mothers and sisters served Raniere.

  • For all you commenters who complain about other posters here…. one question:

    Why do you continue to feed the trolls?

    Stop replying and ignore them… without attention they will shrivel up and wither away. Dont waste your time failing for their ‘bait’.

  • Grow up goof ball. Scotties an asshole but he has hurt nobody. This is an internet comment forum and Scottie is a nobody just like you. If your fucking psyche is that delicate then please suicide your painfully empty life.

  • Looks like Clare Bronfman will only get three years in the stinker. Not good, but not as bad as it could have been. After that, parole for life?

    Wonder how much of her fortune she will lose? All because of audacity. And foolishness. And vanity, and insecurity, and some desperate need to hang onto the support of a Vanguard.

    Clare blew $150 million on Vanguard! My god, that’s international news. The folly of a lifetime. Worse than Huntington Hartford. It’s one thing to be born into money, it’s something else to be able to manage it.

    And then there’s Nancy Salzman. I wonder how many years she’ll get in the stinker? She’s in her 60s now, so even a few years will leave her a broken women. Talk about audacity.

  • Why Frank? Why are you taking over all this nonsense? Anybody got any ideas? Because you believe in conspiracy theories? Because it brings you money (on your blog there is advertising so more clicks equals more money),. The blog’s gonna get impassable because the real invaders are Scott, ben and the whole troll gang.

  • They are good lawyers, keep in mind:

    1. They were not saying this in court;
    2. This was a trial balloon, to see if they could gain any traction with this argument; and
    3. They have nothing else to work with, they are already desperate at this early stage. You can’t make chicken salad out of chicken poop.

  • If a judge and jury hear these nitwit lawyers denounce the victims as “crazy”, it will just piss them off. I thought these lawyers were supposed to be “super” and “super expensive”. But, I am starting to think they are incompetent dummies to resort to strategies that will only succeed in guaranteeing guilty verdicts.

    • P.S., their job is to minimize what happens to their client. Given that Raniere is obviously guilty, their job is to look for technicalities to get him off, and failing that, minimize the number of decades he’s behind bars. Good luck, they’ll need it.

  • but I was an absolute emotional trainwreck after that intensive, and think there are many other ways I could have “opened up” that would have been a lot less harmful in the process, and taken a lot fewer years to recover from.

      • Thanks for the well wishes. I wish healing for anyone who ever set foot at an intensive, and especially for those who don’t even yet realise the damage that was done to them.

      • So very different than the trap you fell for Scott?
        Why do you feel the need to write that comment to this person in the first place? Just to judge them?

        You love to judge, don’t you Scott, and it’s very strange how you judged me as “having a messed up head” when you are working along side “the Tanster” — believer of reptilian humans, pizza gate, Tom Hanks purchasing mind-controlled children as sex dolls…and much, much more.
        To you, Scott, these bizzare Tanster theories are normal, but yet my experience of being harassed by a group of criminals cult members is unbelievable.

        I guess if I claimed that aliens with the desire to purchase living child sex dolls had harassed me, that would seem realistic to you?

      • Yes, very different than the trap I fell for, Flowers. The trap I was referring to was the trap these lawyers set, by saying people who got caught up with NXIVM are crazy. Crazy or not, this doesn’t give permission for someone to scam them. So, by merely denying they are crazy doesn’t prove anything, but it does show she engaged in the “crazy” conversation the Raniere lawyers brought up. She should have stepped over the “crazy” trap and referred to the crimes Raniere and others committed. This would go a long way to not only show she’s not crazy, but would put the conversation back where it belongs, on Raniere and Co.

        I feel the need to help this person not fall for the trap, is that a problem for you? How did I judge her, by merely pointing out she fell for a trap? Why are you so hyper-sensitive?

        Tanster and I have our differences, but what we have in common is a desire to get to the truth about NXIVM and all of its tentacles, including Ben’s story. I’m willing to overlook the other things to find the truth, whereas you like to constantly bring up your favorite 3 words: me, myself, and I. Had you been in NXIVM or known someone who was/is, that would be a worthwhile conversation. I’m not going to go down some rabbit-hole with you regarding imagined “criminal cult members” following and harassing you, I’m staying on the NXIVM topic. Plus, I don’t believe you, you’re not worth following and harassing.

        • Another one of your comments that makes little sense, Scott.
          I’m hypersensitive because I complained about your consistently abusive behaviour? I understand that you have ZERO emotional IQ, but it’s hard to believe that you can’t see that your comments are abusive, cruel, rude, and uninformed, and yet you seem to actually think you’re correct.
          You also are unable to follow simple logic, as demonstrated by your comment that I need to be “worthy” of harassment. That’s not only an abusive comment, but an incredibly illogical one as well. How is a person “worthy” of abuse Scott? How is a person worthy of criminal harassment? What worthy actions must one take (in your opinion) that makes them worthy of having crimes committed against them?

          Please inform me, Mr. Knowledgement, , so I can stop being worthy. And my kids can also stop being worthy of criminal harassment, too. LOL.

          If you don’t understand what harassment is ,Scott, then check out the experiences of all the “worthy” people who left Scientology and then became worthy of harassment.

          I think that Frank should ban you from this forum just on the basis of that comment alone, because that comment proves you have no empathy at all for victims of crimes, and that you blame victims and you cast doubt on their experiences. (Experiences you have no absolutely knowledge of, moron)

          Since this is a forum for helping victims of this type of crime – you should NOT be allowed to post here, Scott, and further harm the emotional well-being of these women.

          • Just answer the questions I asked you.

            Oh…wait….you CAN’T . LOL
            Yes, we all understand you can’t answer the questions, but you just have to make some noise, so you attempt to attack my mental health again.

            Quit being a total coward Scott, grow a set, and try to write a logical answer to what I asked you.

            Is that too difficult for you?

          • By the way , the question is this-
            “What actions does a person take that makes them “worthy” of criminal harassment?”

            You seem to consider yourself an expert on the topic, so please let us all know, so we can avoid further harassment.

            (And I’m sure it’s all the victims fault that they are harassed, just like it’s a rape victims fault for wearing a sexy outfit. Right, Scottie ? That’s your mentality.)

          • Poll

            1.) Who thinks Scott will be brave enough to answer the question?………………………..□

            2.) Who thinks Scott does’nt have the balls or brains to formulate an intelligent answer?……………………………□

  • And here is video proof that Ben Szemkus is still alive. He’s been in protective custody with me

    https://gph.is/2mCp16j

    I do him favors, he does me favors. That’s how it is LIBTARDS!

    GODZILLA AIN’T GOT NOTHING ON ME. LOL

  • I am an expert on all things. I picked my great knowledge up from sitting my fat ass on a couch all day long.

    Feel free to visit me SNOWFLAKES. LOL

    Scott E. Johnson
    3241 Portside Lane
    Plano TX 75023

    I will kick all your asses

      • Scott. I hate to say this. But it is time for you to make a graceful exit. You have hurt too many people. And giving you the benifit of the doubt and hoping for second chances was merely wishful thinking.
        You have brought this upon yourself. And I will side with the people you have bashed. This page needs peace. It has occurred to me that it may be too late for you to turn over a new leaf .And you owe a contrite and sincere apology to many people. Especially the women. I was hoping for the sake of the page you would change your ways. Because it was you who created this drama. Please for the sake of the page make a graceful exit.

        • I wish that people would stop posting your address. That is scary. And that part is not your fault.
          But the more minor complaints are. The harmless reaction is what you brought upon yourself. But this putting your address out is something much different. But I don’t want to read the negative things.
          But I think at least taking a break might do well.

        • Frank please delete Scott’s address. He doesn’t deserve the threats. Yes people are angry from bashing. The threats are beyond bantering.

          • In fact he thinks we all should comment under our real names. Just like he does. A single google search finds his address.

            He is also a narcissist and sociopath (examples are how he always needs the last word and is ugly and controlling to all of us) and people like him are precisely the reason none of us should ever post under our real names. We all feel threatened and harassed by him.

            But Scott speaks often and proudly about how he has nothing to hide. And posting an address you can find in 1 second on google is not a threat.

            He’s also a professional failure since 1993. And he lost when Amway sued him (they wanted him to not talk to Amway employees and they got exactly what they wanted), despite Scott claiming he won (he did not, he didn’t even get his lawyer and legal costs paid, his poor wife had to cover for him once again). Goliath squashed David like he was a fruit fly. Which he kind of was, and is, never shutting up, always buzzing around, and being unpleasant and threatening to everyone.

          • I have never said I want everyone to use their real names.

            Your “feelings” of being threatened and harrassed are a figment of your imagination.

            There are no restrictions on talking to Amway employees, only their distributors, which I explained is a waste of time anyway.

            Why should I get my legal costs paid? That’s not how it worked back then, prior to the SLAPP law being passed in Texas.

            Amway has been on the decline ever since they “won” the lawsuit. LOL

        • I am sorry Scott. Maybe I was being presumptuous. Take back part of my comment. Just too much drama around you. I can admit That I have no clue.

  • Th attorneys both said they are feeling good about the case as is Keith!
    Sure they are running out the $10million irrevocable trust Clair Bear provided. The Vanguard isn’t the only greedy party here.
    By the time January 2019 rolls around, the trust will have a zero balance and the Public Defender will be defending Keith at trial
    Also, a thought to ponder, perhaps the trust can now be revoked since Clair is obviously ready to sing like a canary
    Who will be paying for everyone’s legal team?

    • The lawyers are feeling good because they are racking up the billable hours and getting paid from the irrevocable trust. They are feeding Raniere the same “joy” BS he fed his victims for years so that he keeps paying them.

      The lawyers will be able to get through the trial with the $10 million, they know how to take money at the correct rate to extend the time through the end of the trial and then use the money to have a great Spring Break trip.

      I don’t how you came up with it is obvious Clare is ready to sing like a canary. Even if she did flip, she can’t take her trust back, that’s not a good enough reason.

        • This is Scott Johnson again. I’m now posting under tex2 because the CIA has been spying on me.

          Oh well. Maybe I can trick them just like I fooled everyone with the Ben Szemkus disappearance. Ben’s with me. LOL

          Scott E. Johnson
          3241 Portside Lane
          Plano TX 75023

    • As Carl Jung would say, we meet ourselves time and time again in a thousand faces.

      It is crazy to cause real harm to men and women to protect scumbags in order to see who can pile up the most fiat currency.

      I don’t think Agniflio does particularly well at trial. His only chance for a win is to keep it from actually going to trial like when they thoroughly attacked the poor maid who was raped by Dominique Strauss-Kahn to get his charges thrown out.

  • Keith and his band of merry brainwashers are very well prepared to lie to their lawyers.

    They find lawyers who are willing to go to any length to win their cases just for the sake of winning.

    There was two sides to NXIVM and their other companies. The training & the cult.

    Sure there were a lot of people who went to “just the training”. Most only took a 5 or 16 day and never took another course. They could very well benefited from the training/coaching. They were also never exposed to the Mission/cult of Raniere and his inner circle followers.

    Than there is a group that one asked to accept or even step over morality said no, warned others as they ran out of NXIVM.

    Than you have the group that bought in hook, line and sinker to the cult.

    Some like those arrested and some not yet arrested did horribly wrong things in the name of their Vanguard.

    So when a lawyer says something like Raniere’s lawyers has said more than once, he either doesn’t get it or hes blowing hot air in an attempt to win his evil clients freedom.

    There seems to be no shame with these types of lawyers. They will lie just to win even though it doesn’t mean they make more $$$. They get paid either way.

    Assholes are born every day and NXIVM seems to hire the biggest AHoles to represent them.

    Clare has hired a huge woman AHole. Shes telling the Judge things she hasn’t even had time to learn is true or not.

    Maybe they need to call Nxivm’s last legal team in Albany to do an investigation on how much their clients lie.

    • The facts will prevent the lies from having a positive effect in XNIVM’s favor. In fact, it will backfire. The judge has already seen through some of their desperate lies, such as not reporting the island value because it is being renovated – he rolled his eyes, remember? Just wait until there is physical evidence such as emails, bank records, as well as opposing testimony backed up by several people, etc. SLAM DUNK! Or if you’re Raniere, a volleyball spike in his face.

  • I insist, ask their family members or ex partners (because everyone has a divorce when they enter esp courses, you can ask the mexico city bodyguards, its funny when the drivers or bodyguards are standing outside and see a new person entering the center, the first thing they comment is: “oh, here comes next divorce” lol

  • If people are crazy, it’s Keith who made them that way. I rarely will ever say that one human being is responsible for driving another nuts… We are all responsible for our actions and decisions – including the one to allow another person to gaslight or drive us crazy. But, being drawn into NXIVM, literally hypnotized and brainwashed pretty much deprives one of the ability to take responsibility (Beyond the initial foolhardy decision – based on curiosity and genuine seeking to better ourselves) .

      • Calorie, protein, and sleep deprivation. Separation from family and former friends. Those are age-old staples of mind control. The brain’s reasoning function is impaired over time. It is a hateful practice.

        Another poster pointed out that KR was cheerful and smiling, to see he former “buddies” in the courtroom, indicted on many counts. After 20+ years, that proves to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a classic, born sociopath.

  • This is the weakest defense possible. Whataboutism. Dear court, whatabout the people Raniere did not hurt. Whatabout the females he was into, but did not bed. Whatabout those, who believe they gained something.

    It is a good thing they reached this point early. They are not even trying to explain anyhing or find loops in the other side’s argumentation. All they do is damage control to shave off 1 year of max sentence and try to confuse the public.

    • Whatabout all the people the 9/11 attack didn’t kill? These lawyers have NOTHING, they are so desperate so early in the process, it’s laughable. If they use that lame excuse in court, the jury won’t be able to hold back their laughter, especially after the prosecution points out the folly of that lame excuse. These are high-dollar defense lawyers, and this is the best they can come up with.

  • This is rich. The lawyer representing the sociopath who thinks he’s a living god, has told women that he can stand in the rain without getting wet, lies about being a genius, Judo champ, sprinter, when he could speak full sentences, read, and do college level mathematics, etc., is calling *other people* crazy.

    Put the fucking crack pipe down.

    • Raniere’s lawyer has nothing else to use to defend Raniere. All he wants is to keep getting paid from Raniere’s irrevocable trust fund. There is much joy in the prosecution’s office and in the defense lawyers’ retirement accounts. Raniere, not so much. The roles have reversed, he is now getting swindled for a change.

  • One victim is one too many. What a ridiculous comment for an attorney to make that more were helped then harmed. These are the great VANGUARDS attorneys?

    • Criminals don’t help more people than they harm to get convicted. It only takes one murder or robbery or rape……
      This was a shallow attempt to put Keith in a better light
      Calling the accusers crazy wont hold water with a jury
      Marc Agnifilo had it right, a Freudian slip or the truth? Pleading Keith as Guilty in court on Wednesday in response to his new indictments

  • I’d like to add to my below comment:

    Calling Raniere and NXIVM’s victims crazy, is a form of gaslighting.

    • Toni Natalie was all over it when the media asked her what How she felt about Keith’s attorneys calling her crazy. She basically said, run it i want everyone to see what he does to his victims.

      • The media was going to run it anyway, no matter what she said. They were looking for her opinion, not her permission whether or not to run it. A better answer would have been to sell them one (or more) of her books and stated, “see you in court.”

    • It’s a type of gaslighting. When they say that the victims are crazy they cast doubt on the credibility of the victim, in the publics eye, and it also causes the victim to doubt their own perceptions.
      It’s not surprising that abusive and unethical lawyers would agree to represent Keith.

      • No, the defense lawyers cast zero doubts on the credibility of the victims, they cast doubt on having anything with which to defend Raniere. The defense lawyers are merely doing their job and getting paid handsomely for doing it, they simply don’t have anything to work with to defend Raniere. You need to see through the games being played and use some common sense.

      • You’re being even dumber than usual Scott. Why argue against everyone else? This is a type of gaslighting the lawyers are using against the victims. Since you are unfamiliar with narcissistic abuse and sociopathic abuse, I suggest you look up these topics, and learn what gaslighting means.

        • Flowers, you can’t get out of your own, mixed up head. I’m not arguing against everyone else, just the stupid ones. Since you are unfamiliar with the term “desperate,” I suggest you look up this topic, and learn what it means. Most lawyers, even when they know their client is guilty, don’t offer specific excuses this early in a case, they say something like, “We’re digging through all of the evidence and we believe our client will be vindicated in the end.” LOL

          • Leave flowers alone. Flowers is a wise, sharp witted , intelligent woman. Please show her respect.

          • Scott, to be honest , you should have absolutely no knowledge of anything I think or anything I have said, other than the comments I have made here . Correct?. So how is it that you have decided I have a “mixed up head”? You are able to determine that by my comments here?.
            Amazing.

            You, however, have left a trail of abusive and annoying behaviour all over the Internet.

            You may want to think about that before you bash me again.

          • Internet Trolls Scott E, Johnson has a long history of being an internet troll

            Internet trolls and Dark triad @ Wikipedia.com

  • Thank you for posting this, Frank.

    Even if there are people who were helped by NXIVM, that doesn’t negate what the whistleblowers are saying. It only shows us that a group that professes noble intentions can be rotten at its core.

    I got a strong feeling of “me too” from the attorney’s smug comment “They’re crazy!” Don’t get me wrong, I know that both men and women were threatened and harmed greatly by Raniere and NXIVM. But the sex crimes and branding were done to female victims. And I feel it is most often women who get labeled as crazy when they make allegations of abuse. Does anyone else feel that his insult was a coded sexist reference? A sort of mirror of Keith’s ideas about women? I’d be interested to hear other reactions.

  • Of course his lawyer is going to put out the bullshit about him “helping” people and being this great “ethical” guy to maintain the fake image VanDouche created for himself, except his lawyer doesn’t actually believe it. It is/was the same with VanDouche’s followers, except they (or most of them) did actually believe it.

  • If that pepole is crazy; is just becouse K. Raniere has been…through its teachings for so many years…and undécima its influencie.

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