On Nicki Clyne’s Locals account, she posted a link to the Daily Mail story about allegations that the FBI tampered with evidence in the Keith Raniere case.
The Daily Mail finally published their article on the FBI tampering.
It has a number of factual inaccuracies and the language is very spun towards the salacious narrative, but it does contain a number of the technical findings, as well as video interviews with former FBI agent, Dr. Richard Kiper, Suneel Chakravorty, and yours truly (below).
It doesn’t feel good to promote something that contains such false and defamatory claims, but sometimes you have to lose small battles to win the war.
Right now we’re being silenced by mainstream media despite dispositive evidence that the FBI manufactured and planted evidence to prejudice a jury and get a conviction.
I don’t necessarily believe that “any publicity is good publicity,” but undoing a hateful false narrative is much harder than creating one, so you have to celebrate the small victories.
A commenter, Peter Longworth, offered this comment on Clyne
By Peter Longworth
I don’t think Nicki Clyne is a bad person. By that, I’m of the opinion that she would not deliberately do something to knowingly hurt someone else for her own selfish reasons.
That said, Nicki Clyne inhabits a very different psychological universe than most of us.
As individuals, we all have our own idiosyncrasies. Our perceptions of life and the world we live in are all different.
Yet for any society to function, there needs to be a certain degree of shared belief and value system that we commonly subscribe to. In most stable societies, this is the case, even though there will always be people like Nicki who fall outside that scope.
In many ways, Nicki represents the impending threat to social stability and democracy that currently confronts us. Since 9/11 and the growth of tech dependency and social media, we have collectively entered a post-truth world where not only opinions about facts divide us, but even acceptance of the facts themselves.
It is hardly surprising that Nicki has completely bought into the whole loony right QAnon Trumpist agenda.
After all, this whole movement is no different from Raniere’s cult scene: an all powerful leader who can do no wrong, dictating misleading platitudes to a sea of gullible acolytes who accept them without question. It is the subversion of the individual to the will of the movement, autocracy overcoming freedom.
And this is the weird thing: Nicki shows great reflective sensitivity and intelligence in many personal writings on her website.
She ain’t no dumbass!
For example, her description of a riot following a Canadian hockey match is both vivid and moving in its revulsion and horror. I just wonder though how Nicki would describe what happened on January 6th 2021 in the Capitol Building.
This is the point.
Just as members of a cult can never see themselves as members of a cult, they are equally incapable of seeing anything wrong with what their leaders do – whether that’s Raniere raping a 12-year-old (Rhiannon) or any other underage girl, or Donald Trump and others subverting the basic democratic rights and personal freedoms that most Americans have so long taken for granted.
One of Nicki’s most recent posts was on the war in Ukraine. It didn’t say that much one way or the other, apart from being a little disparaging about the mainstream media’s reporting of it.
But the interesting thing: you had the feeling Nicki wanted to take a pro-Russian stance, but something deep down just couldn’t allow her to do it – the Trumpist autocrat conflicted with the pacifist humanist. Just like her social media silence on Roe: religious right wing bigotry v Raniere’s birth control system.
We have all the naive stuff about the FBI and the justice system. We are asked to believe both are corrupt to the hilt. Of course, as most of us come to realize following our teenage years, things aren’t perfect and there’s an element of corruption in all large institutions, public and private. That’s why we set up other independent entities to regulate, and if necessary, investigate them.
However, such agencies provide an essential service in regulating the country, ensuring national laws are upheld, and that no one is above the law, and that goes for cult leaders and former presidents.
Consent is a concept that is perhaps more complex than some people think. According to testimony, Nicki was tasked with investigating the “seduce Keith” assignment in DOS. Presumably, she knows therefore how widespread it was. It’s also true that Nicki knew about the collateral system, which she has a different understanding of. And yet she knows that the asymmetrical structure of DOS meant that in Orwell’s words, some people were more equal than others.
Can she not empathize with the lower echelons of young women, who must have felt a degree of obligation to carry out such an assignment if given it by a superior?
Does that amount to full consent? The same applies to the branding, and Nicki has herself admitted its victims were unaware it was Raniere’s initials. Does she not think they were entitled to know that?
Is that full consent?
Finally, we live at a time when the world is teetering on the edge of oblivion, whether it’s nuclear Armageddon, climate change apocalypse, social, political and economic meltdown, a properly nasty pandemic, or any combination of the above. There’s never been a more important time in human history for us to get together and try to sort out all the shit.
I just hope Nicki wakes up one day and smells the coffee. If she can’t, there’s really not much hope for the rest of us.
“There is a better way. You can walk into that gas chamber up at San Quentin on your own power.”
Can you please stop being a procrastinating asshole about his fucking articles so we can get this over with?!
For fuck sakes!
I wanted to read them and there’s and I know many others do too.
You’ve had them in your possession for several months now! This is getting old and ridiculous! If George McBlack also gave you his interview with him yet, publish that also!
But stop with all this banter and chasing your own ass!
You said that you would publish them and your dementia doesn’t give you a right to be a dick!
Stop playing our milk-tits mother who decides what’s ok for us adults to read and be a man of your word!
Have a nice day!
P.S. Stay on-topic if you reply to this, make sure to only reply to the subject matter and not find some stupid irrelevant detail to mentally jack off to! Try coloring within the lines of this coloring book for once, pal and make sure not to eat the crayons or sniff anymore glue and not make big mess while you’re at it! Ok, Sweetheart?!
“The only thing I would like better than a nice juicy homicide of your person is a sirloin steak smothered with onions.”
Then go tell one of your FR slaves to buy it for ya you freak!
Quite frankly, I’d give up eating for a month to see you hang for all the shit that you’ve done!
Pulvis et umbra sumus.
“Pulvis et umbra sumus.”
Donec ardeat in inferno anima tua propter corruptionem tuam stupri retardare!
“In your case, your self-absorption is completely unjustified.”
It is completely justified, Ginzo! I am a blessed to be a born a member of the greatest race to have ever existed! How can I not be so proud and loving of myself?! I explained this to you in my reply to your other niggerized intellectual disgrace of a comment before this one!
I would also ask of you again not to engage in Option: C for a comeback (as I laid out for you in my other comment) because you’ve already long exhausted this method and all it does is make you look even more pathetically and desperately stupid than you usually do! 🤦🏻♂️🙄
“I have never discovered any other subject quite so unworthy of my attention.”
Again, please stop using Option: C in your replies, Ginzo!
I also would ask you to stop lying because everybody knows that niggers have never “discovered” anything! It was all my glorious and superior race who did that for you and all of the other nigger’s incompetent asses! So don’t you dare try to take credit for any kind of “discovery”, you thieving niggered bilge rat!
You yourself being a cursed nigger alone is enough to make you “quite so unworthy of [*MY*] attention”! But nonetheless, I still kindly give my sacred time to you and allow you to blessed in my presence even though you’re too intellectually inferior to learn anything from me and all ever you do is censor me and blaspheme the founding fathers and the blood of the millions of our soldiers while you pretend to be a “patriot” on TV!
You are the most vile scum of the earth and even though I know that you would never show me the same mercy that I give you because you’re genetically incapable of it (I mean just look at the mafia for crying out loud!) and constantly brag about not doing so, and this being completely unworthy of my attention, I still treat you better than what your sorry nigger ass deserves!
You know why?
Because I know there come a day will you be tortured in Nigger Hell for all of eternity beyond human imagination could ever fathom wishing that you were never born and I pity you!
Plus, I know that the real reason you project “self-absorption” onto me is because in the end, you truly hate yourself!
And it’s no wonder!
For as my true proverb, that I invented out of my own personal creative genius given to me by my blessed genetics from my glorious and superior race, that I teach the children in our colony, says,
“Everybody knows that we all hate niggers! For niggers are most despicable sub-animal creatures to have ever been cursed to exist! Even a nigger can’t stop himself from hating a nigger! Even if that nigger IS himself!”
– Patriot God
✊🏻 IF WE BELIEVE!!!!!! ✊🏻
✊🏻 THERE’S A BETTER WAY! ✊🏻
Let’s go sit and hate a bunch of people
“Let’s go sit and hate a bunch of people”
See, Ginzo! This is exactly what I’m talking about here!
Niggers are the very archetype of hate! You want to know why I hate niggers?! It’s because I hate *HATE*!
I believe in love and I’m order to believe in love, you must hate what is contrary to love and what is contrary to love is hate!
You’ve spent all your life hating things, Ginzo!
You hate this country, you hate our founding fathers and their vision of this country, you hate the U.S. Constitution because you hate freedom of speech, you hate truth, honesty, and unbridled debate because you hate freedom, you hate keeping your promises, you hate being a real man, you hate morals, you hate public accountability, you hate all of the true patriots and most importantly, you hate me! And that’s why you want to control it all so that you can bind it all down in your wicked chains of hate!
You hate all of these things and much more because of the truth is, you hate yourself most of all because niggers are genetically bound to do nothing but hate!
Your toxic hate has already poisoned everybody on here enough! So no! I will not sit down and hate with you because I believe in love and a nigger like you will never truly understand that love and hate cannot coexist together!
And that’s why you shouldn’t be in our country and have any control over our media and freedom of speech and will have to be brought to justice for it!
Because America has freedom it is a country of love and in true love there is freedom! That’s why niggers have never be able to have a country like ours and never will even if they steal it like they want! It will only turn into hate like them!
But love conquers all and that’s why niggers like you will never win in the end! You think you’ve won the battle but you haven’t won the war and never will! We always kick everybody’s asses in war because our love is the greatest and strongest weapon of all!
And that’s something a sorry nigger like you can never have and that’s why in the end, YOU WILL ALWAYS LOSE
✊🏻 IF WE BELIEVE!!!!!! ✊🏻
✊🏻 THERE’S A BETTER WAY! ✊🏻
This is a good world. It’s wonderful to get up in the morning and go out for a little walk and smell the trees and see the streets and the kids going to school and the clouds in the sky. It’s wonderful just to be able to move around and whistle a song if you feel like it, or maybe try to sing one.
This is a nice world. So why do you make all the trouble? Couldn’t you just stop going online.
“This is a good world. It’s wonderful to get up in the morning and go out for a little walk and smell the trees and see the streets and the kids going to school and the clouds in the sky. It’s wonderful just to be able to move around and whistle a song if you feel like it, or maybe try to sing one.”
“This is a nice world. So why do you make all the trouble? Couldn’t you just stop going online.“
Yeah such a “nice world”! Niggers and kikes are trying to invade our country, niggers are killing thousands of true American citizens a year, our rights are eroded away by pieces of shit like you more and more every day, the kikes are forcing women’s rights and affirmative action on us and taking away our jobs, inflation is skyrocketing because of the Jews, Agenda 21, America is being sold out to other countries like Israel and China, pedophila is at an all time high, criminals are pouring in here and killing and raping us more and more every day, the Jews are poisoning our food and water to slowly kill us and give us obesity and other diseases, our 2 Amendment rights are being pushed to be taken away everyday more and more, and you can already pretty much miss our 1st Amendment goodbye because it’s already pretty much dead (but you would know all about that, wouldn’t ya!), our justice system is crumbling, and the American dream that was ours is almost fully dead because of all of niggers and their degeneracy in our culture!
But hey! You know, such a “nice world” that we’re living in! It’s all my fault! The kikes and niggers aren’t to blame even though they’re about 85% of our criminal population and most of the rest are just niggerized whites who have been shamed out their heritage by the Jews so they just seek an new identity by imitating niggers! Yeah, but that’s all my fault ain’t it, Ginzo?!
Funny how you of all people who report on NOTHING BUT NEGATIVITY on a daily basis that if you had any mental capacity to properly connect the dots, you’d see was all because the goddamn Jews and niggers in our country that are the cause of it!
But hey! You know why don’t do I just shut up and not talk about it?! How about we just let the NWO come and let billions of people die at the hand of the Jews?! Is ok then all the Jews can have their 2,800 goyim slaves a piece just like their Talmud promises them after they’ve reduced the earth down to a controllable size!
Doesn’t that sounds fair to you?!
But guess what?!…… I WILL NEVER GIVE UP! And we will have a “nice world” in our country again once you sorry ass niggers are back in your country to destroy your own land and you can all sink while we swim and natural selection can deal with all of your asses so we don’t have to do it and then we can all finally live in peace!
But we WILL have The American Dream!
COME HELL OR HIGH WATER!!!!!!!
And you won’t tell me to just shut up lie down while all you carpetbagging pieces of shit try to steal it away from all of us!
✊🏻 IF WE BELIEVE!!!!!! ✊🏻
✊🏻 THERE’S A BETTER WAY! ✊🏻
Sometimes people are where they can’t talk. Under six feet of dirt, maybe.
If it wasn’t for Frank Report troll policy, I come after you so fast it’d make your head spin. I’d put you through the wringer and, brother, the things I would squeeze out.
“Sometimes people are where they can’t talk. Under six feet of dirt, maybe.”
“If it wasn’t for Frank Report troll policy, I come after you so fast it’d make your head spin. I’d put you through the wringer and, brother, the things I would squeeze out.”
What’s the “Frank Report troll policy”?
Always censor people you’re afraid of, like an anti-American, communist-loving SIMP, soy boy pussy?! Hate free speech and use the word “troll” to as a free pass to violate people’s freedom of speech and train people to be afraid of words as much as guns?! Is that the “policy”? Hmmmmm?………
Please, Ginzo! 🙄
You can barely even go after your own mentally retarded spinning head because of your inferior guido genetics that cause you dementia at your age!
But even if you came close to succeeding with that, nigger, the patriots and The Glorious Night Riders would come YOU so fast that your head would even have time to spin because of how fast you’d be put on the wringer and, nigger there’d be nothing to squeeze out that wasn’t already whipped out of your sorry brown ass other than a two inch nigger brain!
BRING IT ON, NIGGER!
IF WE BEEEELLLLIIIIEEEEEVEEEEE!!!!!
✊🏻 IF WE BELIEVE!!!!!! ✊🏻
✊🏻 THERE’S A BETTER WAY! ✊🏻
There is a better way. You can walk into that gas chamber up at San Quentin on your own power.
“You’d better watch out, Patriot God, or you’ll finish up in a psychiatric ward. I doubt they’ve ever had a patient who fell in love with himself.”
It seems the only reply you ever have to me in regards of you intellectually embarrassing yourself is as follows:
A. Something about “mental health”and/or a “psychiatric ward”
B. Falsely slandering me with made up diagnoses
C. Project what you are and/or do unto me
D. Threaten me to assault me
E. Running away and hiding and replying like a pussy
F. Redacting part(s) of my comment like a pussy
G. Censoring my whole entire comment like a pussy
H. Either E, F, or G and/or all of them and then claiming “victory” for yourself usually coupled with something from A-D and/or all of them.
So allow let me save you the pain from exhausting the tiny amount of energy of your small genetically inferior brain and you can just type the letter of which one you choose next time.
In regards to me being “in love with [myself]”, it’s interesting that you say that seeing the fact that you named your own blog website after yourself and constantly lie on TV about your patriotism for attention despite countless people calling your deceitful ass out for it for years!
It is YOU that is the most selfish here, Ginzo! Please stop doing Option: C and try to pick a different one next time!
But yes I do love myself more than anything that you will ever know! How can I not love myself so much and be beyond proud of myself for my divine calling and having the greatest honor that you could ever have by being part of the most glorious and greatest race to ever exist?!
Even the founding fathers talked about how proud they were to be an Anglo-Saxon! And who could blame them?!
Our race has the most beauty, intellect, and civilized people in all of history! Our women and men are the most beautiful out of all the other ugly niggers that are cursed to exist on this earth! That’s why all the desperate and insecure niggers try to copy our beauty standards and can never live up to it because they’re too dumb to realize that it is only by being one of us that you can have truly be beautiful! For we are the standard of it!
We are the ones who discover the world the most and contribute to technological advancement the best!
And we alone have established the greatest country of the world to have ever existed that everybody envies that a unique governmental system inspired from our uniquely rich cultural heritage and genius!
Our race has done everything for this world’s advancement surrounded by inferiors who have only held us back and tried to destroy us out of envy! People like YOU!
So it is no wonder that you say that because the truth is that you envy me for it! And rightfully so! But the truth is that you just hate yourself because all a nigger can ever do is hate!
But we are a race of love! A love of this country, a love of our freedom, and a love for our most superior race!
We believe in love and love will always conquer the hatred and darkness of the nigger’s soul that is reflected through the darkness of their skin as a warning sign from God that they of not of us and are cursed! And that’s the real difference between me and you, Ginzo!
So it is you YOU who “better watch out” with your hate! Because we believe in love!
But most importantly, we believe in……….
✊🏻 IF WE BELIEVE!!!!!! ✊🏻
✊🏻 THERE’S A BETTER WAY! ✊🏻
Can you analyze our relationship in the light of Silvermanian pragmatism?
“You speak of Bangkok. He was quick to seize upon anything that would improve his mind or his appearance. Bangkok had innate breeding.”
“Bangko’s poise and charm of manner captivated many readers. He has warmth, vitality. He has authentic magnetism. Women admired him. Men envied him. I never liked him””
No, you idiot! I speak of patriot god! Fuck bangkok! He can do the world a favor and go hang himself! And all that bullshit you said about him are fucking lies and you know it! Funny how you let that worthless piece of shit monkey have free reign on here, but not patriot god when patriot god is way better and smarter than that retarded baboon!
I really hope somebody brutally kills you one day and you die a agonizing death! You don’t deserve to live with your sorry ass attitude! Somebody more worthy than your incompetent ass should have this website and then maybe we can actually have what founding fathers promised us and our brave soldiers shed their blood for without a fake patriot like you stealing it from us and shitting on their graves and all of their suffering to give it to us while you milk it all in the public eye for attention! Then we can finally enjoy our the liberties of our Constitution while your treacherous anti-American ass burns in hell!
Let’s not be psychiatric. But in a word, you’re ill.
“Let’s not be psychiatric. But in a word, you’re ill.”
Says the piece of shit con artist lying to the public about supporting freedom of speech just so he can virtue signal for attention while you shit on our founding fathers and the millions upon millions of our American soldiers who shed their blood to give and preserve it for us and the tremendous amount of pain and suffering that their families went through because of it while you take advantage of them all!
YOU’RE FUCKING ILL, BUDDY! NOT ME! YOU’RE BEYOND “ILL”!
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!
So that’s the way you roll. My god! for a fat, middle-aged, hard-boiled, pig-headed guy, you’ve got the vaguest way of doing things I ever heard of.
“So that’s the way you roll. My god! for a fat, middle-aged, hard-boiled, pig-headed guy, you’ve got the vaguest way of doing things I ever heard of.”
Who are you talking about here?! YOURSELF?! Projection much?!
“Vague”?! You’re the only one who’s “vague”!
Look at this mentally retarded reply! Do you have the slightest brain cell in your head to actually sound like you can intellectually communicate?!
Or God bless your stupid soul, you just can’t talk because of how severely mentally retarded that you are?!
You’re a full portion of what I don’t like.
I’ve been very patient for my other comment on here to be posted on this page and I know that you’re censoring me again, you little piece of fucking shit!
You have no right to do that and the time is coming when so-called “journalists” who were supposed to protect American citizens from the eradication of their rights by exposing the plans of a wicked and infiltrated government to do so, that instead neglected their duty and honor and decided to aid and abet them for selfish and greedy endeavors, will once again face the people to be held accountable by them!
I’m telling you right now, punk! You don’t want to have to face me for this bullshit because you’re going to curse the day that you were ever born when I get my hands on you!
So you better stop all your cowardly unconstitutional bullshit while you still can, you stupid fucking piece of fucking shit!
After a few minutes alone with me, you’ll begin to ask questions like: “What if I come out of this a cripple?” And “Do I care whether Frank publishes my comments or not?”
All your answers would be right ones.
Of course, if you’re anxious to find out just how good you are at taking it, I’ll accommodate you. But I warn you, I haven’t had much practice. Kind of rusty. Might slip. And that would be too bad.
Because you made real sense when you said one Ginzo, Guido, Dago, Guinea, Greaseball, WOP, more or less, ain’t worth dying for.
‘After a few minutes alone with me, you’ll begin to ask questions like: “What if I come out of this a cripple?” And “Do I care whether Frank publishes my comments or not?”’
😆😅😂🤣 Yeah, that’s why you needed an entourage to protect you from little ol’ Barbie-doll Catherine Oxenberg and the wimpy directors of “The Vow” so you could feel safe and control everything right?! Yeah I do care about you publishing my comments as well as every other true American citizen! You’ll see how I care when break every goddamn bone in your body for it! Then we’ll see who’s the “cripple” when you come out of the hospital looking like a niggered skin bag accordion!
You couldn’t even be “a few minutes alone” with her and feel safe, Ginzo! A few minutes with me alone and you’ll ask questions like, “Why did I ever come into this country that didn’t belong to me just to wind up getting my arms broken off and hanged?” And “Why was I ever such an idiot to think I’d challenge the sacrosanct laws of Uncle Sam and get away with it?”
“All your answers would be right ones.”
Oh I know! And believe me, I’ll give you plenty of “right” “answers” to yours, Ginzo!
“Of course, if you’re anxious to find out just how good you are at taking it, I’ll accommodate you. But I warn you, I haven’t had much practice. Kind of rusty. Might slip. And that would be too bad.”
Yeah, your old and decrepit fat ass wouldn’t want to break your back trying to throw a pathetic punch before my trusty whip could break it for you! That would indeed be “too bad”!
“Because you made real sense when you said one Ginzo, Guido, Dago, Guinea, Greaseball, WOP, more or less, ain’t worth dying for.”
You’re right! That’s why I’ll be far from it! But I’ll tell you what is worth dying for! What’s worth dying for is the fight for liberty! As Patrick Henry said,
“Give me liberty or give me death!”
But thankfully, death will be far from me when I deal with your cowardly punk ass! I’ve dealt with far bigger, stronger, and more viscous gorillas than your pathetic little capuchin monkey ass and subdued them all because everybody knows that most niggers can’t really fight! You ain’t jack shit!
The second you see me, all you’re going to do is run into your house crying and screaming like a little girl and call the police that Jews made real easy for you to do and then call your dead mother wishing she’d pick up to sing you a lullaby, you little bitch!
But even if all your talk was true and you were more than just all bark and no bite, if you were somehow great enough to slaughter me, The Great Patriot God, you better enjoy it real well! You better make sure it’s as slow and painful for me as you can imagine for me!
Because I’ll tell you what after you spill my blood, the gates of Nigger Hell are going to bust wide open for your stupid guido nigger ass! Because all the patriots will be hunting you down like the motherfucking dog that you are along with the Glorious Night Riders, and the American public!
We’ll see how tough you are to face thousands upon thousands of the toughest patriots then and how well you “a few mins alone” with them because your cowardly little entourage will run for the hills and won’t assist your gone done and fucked up big time nigger ass then, will they?!
Everybody is getting sick and tired of the censorship, Ginzo! We all want what our founding fathers promised us! At least you have admitted in your reply to me to be an enemy against the founding fathers and finally confessed to it!
But don’t worry Ginzo! You won’t be paying just for what you’ve done to me! You’ll be paying for the censorship and abuse of the rights of EVERY SINGLE TRUE AMERICAN CITIZEN that you’ve ever done this to and be brought to justice for them all!
And that’s a lot of licks for your old decrepit back to take, before your hanging and first class trip to Nigger Hell when under the blackest of tortures you’ll ask the devil himself in the most pitiful of sobbing tears “Why did you ever create me at all?!”
✊🏻 IF WE BELIEVE!!!!!! ✊🏻
✊🏻 THERE’S A BETTER WAY! ✊🏻
When you’re slapped you’ll take it and like it.
“When you’re slapped you’ll take it and like it.”
Yes, Ginzo! That’s exactly what your father, the devil will tell you when you’re burning in Nigger Hell! See you’re catching, boy!
Even a dumb guido nigger like yourself can figure some things out with a little time and patience! And of course, an ingenious anthropologist like myself who knows how to deal with your subspecies! 😉
✊🏻 IF WE BELIEVE!!!!!! ✊🏻
✊🏻 THERE’S A BETTER WAY! ✊🏻
Go on, sit in any chair you wanna sit in. I want you to consider yourself my guest. We’ll have a couple of drinks. And then I’m gonna knock your teeth out.
“Go on, sit in any chair you wanna sit in. I want you to consider yourself my guest. We’ll have a couple of drinks. And then I’m gonna knock your teeth out.”
🤦🏻♂️ I’m very disappointed with you! Just when I thought that we were making progress with you by helping you to understand your eternal fate for your niggerdry, you had another mental malfunction while trying to think and shat inside your intellectual diapers again and made a big mess all over the floor! 💩🤮🤢😷🙄
You need to understand that you’re not making art by doing that! It’s only a big mess of stinky waste!
So allow me to help clean you up and we’ll get you a new diaper on for your brain with baby powder because Lord knows that kind of shit is going to your brain asshole a rash! 🙄Try not to make another big mess again after this. Ok, champ? 🙄
🤦🏻♂️ I know you that think you sound like a bad ass and are trying to imitate the pseudo-manliness of your criminal sub species. But I must remind you that you cannot be taken seriously as a threat to anybody with such a pathetic mental disorder as Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia that you have. You need to be able step outside of your ego and see how your words will be perceived by your intellectual superiors before you say them!
Knowing how you cheat people with mere words and can’t even have a fair fight with that, we know that you’ll just pull the same stunt, if not even worse, in a real fight.
If you’re honestly too afraid of mere words that you have to chain them down, then you aren’t ready for a physical fight yet. And having your entourage chain down my fists only for you to take your two pathetically weak geriatric decrepit punches that will only serve to crack your back and make you have to go to a chiropractor and then deceitfully claim “victory”, isn’t a fair fight, Ginzo! Not for me or for you!
I’d highly suggest that you get psychological health treatment for your Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia first and then you can work on your Americaphobia and your patriotphobia.
After that if you still want to fight me for no reason like you do now, then I will gladly oblige. Just make sure to have good medical insurance and dental insurance!
✊🏻 IF WE BELIEVE!!!!!! ✊🏻
✊🏻 THERE’S A BETTER WAY! ✊🏻
You’d better watch out, Patriot God, or you’ll finish up in a psychiatric ward. I doubt they’ve ever had a patient who fell in love with himself.
“Go on, sit in any chair you wanna sit in. I want you to consider yourself my guest. We’ll have a couple of drinks. And then I’m gonna knock your teeth out.”
I would also like to remind you, Ginzo that it is YOU that is the “guest” IN MY COUNTRY! And an uninvited one, I Amy add! So let’s not get cocky! If you want to stay alive in this country then you better start learning your place real quick and stop fucking with our Constitutional Rights!
There used to be a wonderful time in our history that you would’ve been dead a long time ago if you ever dare pulled this stunt even just 1% of the time that you already have!
So you better start learning what free speech means while you still can, Ginzo! That’s not a request!
In your case, your self-absorption is completely unjustified. I have never discovered any other subject quite so unworthy of my attention.
Frank I wouldn’t be talking smack if I were you! Patriot God would snap you like a pretzel! We all know that you’re a sniveling coward because only the most pathetic of pussies would try to silence somebody’s free speech! The vast majority of times Patriot God confronts you, you run and hide from and never give a straight answer to him even the few times that you do reply! You can’t even handle words, Frank and you have to hide from them as well as hide everybody else on here from just mere words too! You can’t even handle patriots gods words and intellect! So now you’ve got the nerve to say that you can handle his fists? Sounds like you’re barking up wrong tree, buddy! You need to be asking yourself a shit ton of questions before you dig your own grave like that!
People lose teeth talkin’ like that. If you want to hang around, you’ll be polite.
“People lose teeth talkin’ like that. If you want to hang around, you’ll be polite.”
And guidos also get hanged when they take away a patriot’s free speech, Frank. If you want to “hang around”, keep up your bullshit! If not, then you be “polite” and stop telling people that you support free speech, promising patriot god that you won’t censor him anymore, and then abruptly going back on your word for no reason other than to be an obnoxious dick! Practice what you preach before you open your mouth, dude!
P.S. patriot god could break your teeth faster than you could blink. You might want to start investing in a pair dentures if you want to fucking with him. Just saying.
I don’t think I’ll have to kill you. Just slap that ugly face into hamburger meat, that’s all.
“I don’t think I’ll have to kill you. Just slap that ugly face into hamburger meat, that’s all.”
Is your degenerate fat ass really that desperate to make lasagna, you guido fat fuck?! You of all people are going to talk about an “ugly face”, ya freak?! You’d wind up breaking your fucking hand off just trying to do that shit to me!
You would think of out all these years of withholding fair wages from your little FR slaves that work for free and that you even make work overtime by reading every single goddamn comment on the boards and “pre-approving” them before being published like the stingy piece of fucking shit that you are while you go on TV and bitch about George Orwell, that you would be able to afford to go to the store (or most likely have somebody else go for you) and buy hamburger meat!
It’s not that expensive, asshole! Or are you just looking for another excuse to mooch off somebody else for free again, you fucking dick?!
Why don’t you actually try the American vision out for once where you actually earn things, you fucking dick leech!
The only thing I would like better than a nice juicy homicide of your person is a sirloin steak smothered with onions.
She fell for a conman. While that can be excused because everyone who trusts (which implies faith) can be deceived, she now supports him in a way other deadenders support[ed] their cult leaders. They aren’t called deadenders for nothing.
She’s definitely a dumbass. Technically, you don’t have to be stupid to be a dumbass. You just have to do stupid things. There are brilliant Indian mathematicians who still pray to small idols with elephants snouts that sit on their shelves.
She may be able to fool the simps who follow her account with her tweets on prison reform, government corruption, conspiracies, etc., where she hitches herself to any tweet bandwagon where she thinks the dust on their trails in the hopes they can somehow fall on her lover boy in the same way in order to help get him off (the Adnan Syed case in one current example), but she can’t fool those who know about the history of the huckster and his cult.
She’s as inauthentic as they come (just like her conman boyfriend) because she really only cares about him in this entire tweet charade. If he was to walk free tomorrow by some devil inflicted miracle, you would eventually see no more tweets on these subjects from her deadender dumbass.
Nicki Clyne IS inauthentic.
Could not agree more. Nicki is always in transactional mode.
It’s a world view that is only seen through a lens of “How can this benefit Keith”?
Which is the exact same mental blinders all of the cult inner circle have worn for years and years.
A person can be a dumb ass AND see things differently.
Nicki “Squeaky” Clyne is an example
[…] A commenter, Peter Longworth, offered comments on Nicki Clyne. […]
I know that patriot god is talking in the comments bc he always does.
Frank are you censoring him again? Come on! I thought that we were already past this! Stop censoring best and most hilarious commenter on this website! Why do you claim to love free speech so much when you constantly take his free speech away? Come on Frank stop with the bullshit!
Free patriot god now!
Let him off his chains and stop trying to muzzle his 1st amendment rights! Stop lying on the public record Frank! You never deal straight about anything!
Let my people go.
Can you stop mocking be serious about why you keep censoring him? Aren’t you supposed to be a strong advocate of free speech? If so then why are you constantly taking away his free speech? Why are you defrauding the public Frank? Why are you too big of a pussy to answer straight about it?
You, patriotgodapologist, are a remarkably unsubtle bore. frank is scintillating.
“You, patriotgodapologist, are a remarkably unsubtle bore. frank is scintillating. Go figure.”
If you honestly think Frank is “scintillating”, then you’re in a emergency and need critical psychological treatment! FAST!
Frank constantly contradicts himself and is verbally and even intellectually dishonest in everything he does!
“Go figure” an FR troll would say something this stupid!
I heard this troll wrote to Patirot God on social media the other night. When he was with George McBlack. Called him by some other name – Colonel something or other.
But it doesn’t matter now, anyway. He was bumped off of Facebook a few nights ago. Just don’t get too complicated, Patriot God. When a troll gets too complicated, he’s unhappy. And when he’s unhappy, his luck runs out.
Release patriot god off of his chains and let him free.
He has done nothing to deserve this commie treatment and has a right to voice his own opinions and comedy in this country.
Comedy is good.
“Comedy is good.”
Then why are you censoring patriot god?
Does he have anything funny to say?
Frank stop being stupid! Free speech is dictated by your subjective taste what is “funny”.
It doesn’t matter if it offends you or somebody or not! None of that matters! All that matters is that you allow free speech!
Can you stop being a toddler and address the issue I’m confronting you about like a man?!
I would prefer the comments relate somehow to the actual stories posted.
“I would prefer the comments relate somehow to the actual stories posted.”
So is that your ridiculous fictional interpretation of freedom of speech that you claim to strongly support?!
Plus, to make this even worse, the vast majority of commenters are almost never on topic! Why don’t you censor them?! Patriot god also does comment on things that pertain to the articles but it doesn’t matter if he does or doesn’t! Who cares?
! Nobody has to read anything that they don’t want to including your own posts! You’re being ridiculous! I and many others like him! Stop censoring him especially since you don’t apply the rules to everybody else! Either don’t censor anybody or come out the closet and admit that you’re a commie and have no respect of the 1st amendment. But you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Stop your bullshit and also stop evading the topic when you’re confronted with stupid “irrelevant” comebacks thtat show no respect when you’re confronted with being a hypocrite!
Post up everything patriot god and grow up or more and more people will wind up boycotting you for being a fraud and pissing everybody off!
Is there any chance Patriot God might lead the boycott by example?
“I never liked Patriot God.”
He has more of right to not like you than you do him seeing the fact that you’ve always treated him like shit for no reason. You’ve admitted here that you never even really gave him a chance. Why don’t you stop being an asshole to him and defying the U.S. Constitution?! You told him that you wouldn’t censor him anymore and then abruptly started to censor him for no reason other than to break your word and be an unconstitutional dick!
Freedom of speech is not determined by your subjective taste in people, Frank! Especially people that you fucked over, FIRST!
“He was so obviously conscious of writing more like a troll than a patriot.”
How so? You’re the one to talk! You’ve encouraged trolling for years including all of Bangkok’s bullshit! Anytime patriot god confronts you, all you do is act like an immature child, play games or even just run and hide like a pussy! Then you have the audacity to say that bullshit?!
At least he doesn’t speak on the side of his mouth about being a “staunch advocate for free speech” and bitching about how “Orwellian” our society has become when he’s got a camera in his face to show off and then behind their backs has the most Orwellianistic system of “approved speech” that might as well have jumped straight out of a George Orwell novel and into a apocalyptic movie scenario! China’s CCP would be proud of you, dickhead!
So I wouldn’t be talking about wannabe patriots if I were you and acting as if you of all people hold litmus test for what speech qualifies as a true patriot seeing the fact that you fucking censor him and everybody else on here because you’re the fakest patriot of them all!
Is that what qualifies as a true patriot to you?
Or are you just speaking without thinking again?
At least patriot god stands by what he says and doesn’t abruptly pussy out like you do!
Unbelievable that you of all people would say that before looking into a mirror!
The old adage of “pot calling the kettle black” is an understatement here! This goes far beyond that with you! Good Lord!
“He sat up the whole night writing a column about himself.”
How would you know that?! Have you been stalking him outside his window while you held a radio over your playing some cheesy love song in hopes in loving you, you pathetic little faggot?! Good grief and then you want to talk about his “mental problems”! Do you have any ability of self reflection and change at all?! Or do you just project with every word that comes out of your mouth?!
“In my reply, I demolished his affectations, exposed his camouflaged imitations of better trolls, ridiculed his theories.”
What reply? To what? Did you really do all of this? Or did you just say something stupid and then when kicked your ass in a witty reply, you just censored his reply so you wouldn’t look like an idiot and just claimed “victory” for yourself?
Where is this “column”? If you’re talking about his articles, you still haven’t ducking posted them yet when we’ve all been waiting for them and you promised!
Did you break your word on that too?!
“[b]etter trolls”? You mean like YOU?! Playing “doctor” like a child, treating people like children by deciding who can read what on your website and hiding his replies to you and other people, and running away and ignoring people who call you out on your bullshit while you claim to be this big patriot boy who supports free speech more than most people do today and never give a straight answer on why you have this fucking unconstitutional system of “approved speech” bullshit isn’t a “better troll”!
It’s just being a pathetic bitch beyond words! By your logic even if patriot god was a “troll”, he’s a hell lot more of a better one than you! And a lot smarter at that!
So anyway you want to cut this shit pie you’ve got to eat the bigger slice!
You speak of Bangkok. He was quick to seize upon anything that would improve his mind or his appearance. Bangkok had innate breeding.
Bangko’s poise and charm of manner captivated many readers. He has warmth, vitality. He has authentic magnetism. Women admired him. Men envied him. I never liked him
“Is there any chance Patriot God might lead the boycott by example?”
Is there any chance that you might address why you keep trying to cheat the U.S. Constitutional rights of patriot god with dishonest and fictionally subjective caveats?
How about all men are created equal?
“How about all men are created equal?“
Funny how you say that when you censor him the most and don’t even apply the same “off topic” logic to anybody else other than him.
Outside of that, I’m not here to debate you on his beliefs. I’m only an observer that likes to read his witty comments. But I do agree that it’s rather obvious that the founding fathers didn’t want all these minorities in this country.
Why don’t you go ask the creators of the Declaration of Independence what “all men are created equal” meant to them?! Seeing the fact that a lot of them owned slaves even as the ink hit the paper from their hand along with their signatures on the Declaration of Independence!
It’s very obvious that they intended the “all men” in regards to only Europeans not the Indians and Blacks and especially not for them to have all these rights in a country that was established by the Europeans for the Europeans.
Anyways, no matter what you believe, the U.S. Constitution is not this tit for tat game that you’re playing by saying something that stupid! You don’t get to have this attitude of “I don’t think he’s following the ‘all men are created equal’ part right!
So he if he’s going to take that away, then I’m going to take his free speech away!” That’s not how this works. He gets his constitutional rights at all times no matter what he does period! This is 3rd grade common sense! How can you claim to support the U.S. Constitution when there are third graders that understand this better than you?!
You as a journalist should be serving him and the rest of us to protect his rights with ours and reporting on crooked government officials and corrupted politicians that are trying to take free speech and the rest of our rights away from us, not join in with them! You are to be a public servant to us shining a light on the the threats to our rights, not an enemy to our 1st Amendment to hold them accountable while you are to obey and be accountable to us! Get a fucking grip!
So stop all the childish tyrannical bullshit and deal straight for once, Frank!
I never liked Patriot God. He was so obviously conscious of writing more like a troll than a patriot.
He sat up the whole night writing a column about himself. In my reply, I demolished his affectations, exposed his camouflaged imitations of better trolls, ridiculed his theories.
Ms Clyne has actually managed to self actualize as a petulant twat hell-bent on combating the English language with cult mind control.
Mr. Peter Longworth (which isn’t his real name) spent his entire article basically arguing that anybody who disagrees with the rabid left-wing ideology needs to be castigated and removed from society. lol.
Loony theories exist on the left and right, especially on the left.
Peter was likely part of the 9/11 truther movement (a loony left-wing theory that suggests the 9/11 attacks were an inside job, LOL).
Peter was also likely supportive of Bill Clinton against the 6 women who accused him of sexual harassment or rape (Peter apparently supports a rapist, because, according to left-wing ideology, women don’t lie about that). Right, Peter?
But, Peter also thinks that Trump is a misogynist for merely saying “grab that pussy”. In other words, Peter believes that saying “grab that pussy” is worse than actually raping and sexually harassing women. lol.
Peter claims to be against social media hate speech which fuels violence ——- yet he supports the social media hate speech (against Waukesha residents) which fueled a mass-murder by a leftist-loon using his SUV to mow down 6 innocent people in a Christmas parade.
Peter doesn’t see anything wrong with the Left-Wing media ‘hysteria’ which fueled that mass murder via car. Why?
Peter also doesn’t see the Antifa riots as anything violent — where they burn, loot and beat people up (and pull guns on people, as that guy did against Rittenhouse).
Peter also doesn’t see the irony that the MSM created the fake news about Trump colluding with Russia and pissing all over a hotel bed in Russia (even though not a single witness can confirm any of that).
It’s all just left wing gossip and fake news —– yet Peter sees nothing wrong with that kind of fake news.
Peter pretends to care about truth, but what he really wants is for everybody to become left wing nuts like him.
Peter is an example of a left-wing loon who honestly thinks that he’s unbiased and neutral.
Peter, you’re a disgrace to your family.
What say you, Peter?
Is that crickets I hear? Yep.
And, no, I didn’t vote for Trump. His personality is very unlikable. He’s not my favorite person. But, that doesn’t change the fact that many fake stories were created about him.
No, he’s not like Hitler. Hitler never abided by a Supreme Court decision. He’d execute any judge who didn’t do his bidding.
Have a nice day. 🙂
I want an:
1. Update on Kieth Raniere prison status and if he’s have a good Friday night.
2. I want the comment section to be promptly updated.
You know who I am. Don’t play dumb. I’m sick of having to check for updates every 15 minutes! Updates should occur preset times.
Fuck you, Nicki Clyne!!
Not a chance, Nice Guy!
That comment wasn’t from me….
….BUT while where on the “topic”,
I look like Ken doll compared to Nicki’s current and former beaus.
Incase you haven’t picked up on it –
I can’t stand you NX’er pedophile, rapist, apologists.
Was Rhiannon lying when she was FORCIBLY raped by Kieth Raniere?
The big question is If Keith gets out, will Nicki leave Suneel?
LMAO @ Suneel!
I wouldn’t fuck Niki with Kiper’s dick and Frank pushing for all the whiskey in Ireland.
I believe Suneel is married.
What the Media Won’t Tell You About King Charles (Part 3)
Hé Frank, prince Charles is now relevant in your blog. Please…….
King Charles the Third associated with Jimmy Savile, the most prolific child molester in British History.
And no one in Britain or America will call out King Charles on his associates.
FYI Shadow – pretty much the whole of UK society worshipped Savile for years, and that includes the Queen and the BBC.
Agree. Prince Charles is now relevant !
No, she is a dumbass
Peter Longworth makes many salient points.
I share his perspective and observations which he so eloquently put forth.
I wish there were a solution to the perniciousness path our Course is on.
I hope Peter shares more in the future.
Country no course….
Very funny Editor god
Joe Biden’s Chicago Paradise
Tucker Carlson: This is what the collapse of civilization looks like
“Tucker Carlson: This is what the collapse of civilization looks like”
So true, Shadow. Tucker actually is what the collapse of civilization looks like. His anti democracy rants are played on Russian TV, and millions of Americans mindlessly watch his program and some even post his rants on the FR.
Why I left Illinois
Democrats’ SAFE-T Act Is Going To Create MASSIVE Crime Waves In Illinois & Backfire Miserably
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and confusion; this in turn led to the numbing and depression, a similar state to the
one in which she had lived in the cult.
Clarissa had returned to a healthy, safe-enough church because she had missed
practicing her faith. But it was in that safe-enough setting that she felt especially
panic stricken, which baffled her and made her question her judgment about whether
it was actually safe. I clarified with her that she had carefully checked the church out
before she attended it, and that she had been quite assertive with members when
they asked her to do things she did not want to do. Having clarified this, we decided
that the problem was not the new church but instead reminders—triggers—of her
time in the cult, and that as a result she was sometimes living as if she was still in
danger when she was not (Ogden et al., 2006).
I explained to Clarissa that the cult had loaded the Bible with its own special, clichéd
meanings (loaded language) (Martin, 2009) to control and manipulate her, and so it
was natural that she would be triggered when she either heard those words or when
the rituals or songs within the new church reminded her of the cult. I explained to her
the concept of pattern matching, in which the current situation matches the traumatic
cult experience and a trigger occurs (Griffin & Tyrrell, 2003, p. 22). Gaining this
understanding normalized what was happening for Clarissa. She was relieved to have
an explanation that reassured her she was not going mad and was not bipolar, real
fears for her because she felt so out of control when she was triggered.
It is important that trauma survivors are supported to take control of their own recovery
process, including choosing the approach adopted to support them in the trauma recovery.
Rothschild (2010, p. 2) noted that different people benefit from different approaches to
working through their trauma, and that it is not a fault in the individual if a particular
approach is less helpful than others. This means the counselor needs to be knowledgeable
about, or at least able to point the client in the direction of, a number of different theories of
and options for trauma recovery. Some of these approaches, which we can add to the
pieces of the jigsaw puzzle and the TA-PCC model, are expounded further in this book (e.g.,
EMDR and CPT).
Working With Trauma
It is helpful to explain in a simple way to former-member clients the effect of trauma on the
brain and body because when they understand more clearly what is happening to them,
they regain some control. I often use a flip chart with simple illustrations of the brain
produced by Janina Fisher (2009). A helpful understanding when dealing with triggers is
that those who have been abused have symptoms, not memories (Harvey, 1996). Triggers
may manifest themselves through an array of symptoms, including depression; irritability;
loss of interest; numbing; decreased concentration; insomnia; loss of a sense of the future;
feelings of shame and worthlessness; mistrust; having little or no memories; experiences of
mistrust, nightmares and flashbacks, generalized anxiety and panic attacks, and chronic
pain and headaches; substance abuse and eating disorders; unreal or out-of-body feelings;
self-destructive behavior; or loss of a sense of “who I am” (Fisher, 2009). If a client is
displaying any or many of these symptoms, it is worth exploring what the trigger is, and
what the unacknowledged and unaware memory is.
Case Example: Clarissa (cont’d.)
Exploring her triggers was important for Clarissa with regard to the music in her new
church. When she heard the music, she experienced emotional discomfort, which was
a memory of her time in the cult; but she was not aware of the memory, just the
discomfort. Once she became aware of the memory, she was able to begin noticing it,
being curious about it, and chewing it over and digesting it. In this way, she was able
to hold on to her love of church music and separate her current experience from that
of her experience in the cult.
To help her with the triggering language of the Bible, which was “loaded” for her in
the cult, we created two columns on a sheet of paper next to Bible verses or words
she listed. Then she noted the cult interpretation alongside her interpretation for each
item. Clarissa continued this process after the TA-PCC as she added other writers’
interpretations. The practice resulted in a reduction in the triggers and slowly freed
her. It also enabled her to continue practicing her faith.
This approach is applicable in any setting in which triggering is occurring, not just in relation
to spirituality. So rather than clients telling all (as in the cult of confession discussed
previously) or simply exploring traumatic symptoms without their having the knowledge
that there are memories attached to the triggers, it is important and helpful to explain to
them what may be happening, and to support them in making the connections between
their somatic (physical) symptoms and psychoeducational theory about trauma. As noted
earlier, in a thought-reform system, much is out of the individual’s conscious awareness; so
in therapy it is important that the counsellor remain interactive and help clients to see what
may be happening. As therapists, we do this to encourage critical thinking and dialogue, not
to tell clients what they think or feel, nor to imply that we know more about them than they
It is, therefore, important that clients can both think and feel at the same time. To achieve
this, Ogden et al. (2006) wrote about working within the optimal arousal zone or, my
preferred term, the window of tolerance (WOT). Doing this ensures that clients can process
the memories and symptoms, and it keeps them grounded: They are not living in
hyperarousal or hypoarousal (see Figure 16.1).
Figure 16.1. Tracking the nervous system (Adapted from Ogden, 2006, “Window of
Tolerance,” Trauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy, p. 27, p. 33.
Reprinted with permission).
Case Example: Clarissa (cont’d.)
I explained to Clarissa that, if she stayed within the WOT, she would be able to think
and feel at the same time, and so process her experiences; whereas when she went
out of the WOT, she would be in either hyperarousal or hypoarousal, which would
result in her feeling unsafe and unable to process. I worked with her to help her
track her arousal levels and identify where on Figure 1 she currently was functioning.
If she was not within the WOT, we worked to help her ground herself back into the
WOT. We did this in several ways: helping her to relax, and to breathe and feel the
chair around her body. Also, we had her notice, for example, three blue things and
10 red things in the room (Rothschild, 2010). Although the process sometimes took
time, it helped Clarissa to come back into the present, and then we could continue
the work. This tracking was encouraging for her because she became increasingly
aware of remaining within the WOT for longer periods of time. It also helped clarify
for her many of her symptoms as she learned to identify which memories were
attached to which symptoms. This practice gave her a greater feeling of control over
her recovery process.
If a client has experienced physical violence or sexual abuse within the cult, then the
counsellor needs to address these issues in a similarly careful way. Many therapists have
found secular mindfulness practice helpful in supporting trauma survivors (Briere, 2012;
Ogden et al., 2006; & Rothschild, 2010), and that is what I am referring to in the
techniques mentioned above in relation to Clarissa grounding herself.
Be aware, however, that although mindfulness practice and meditation can be helpful for
many clients, it also is a popular practice that some cultic groups promote and use to recruit
new members (Jenkinson, 2013). It is vital that we listen to the clients’ stories and not
suggest this approach as an option if it was a practice in their group, because doing so can
destabilize them. Clients who have experienced such destabilization have told me that the
experience left them feeling the therapist had simply not listened to them or had
misunderstood what they were saying. If you make a referral to a provider of mindfulness,
it is important that you have checked out that provider beforehand. While these techniques
worked for Clarissa, I would not have encouraged James/Sachit to do breathing exercises or
to relax in any way that reminded him of the meditation from his group. This is another
example of the importance of having an array of techniques available for clients’ grounding.
Along similar lines, although Clarissa felt it was important for her to return to her spiritual
practice and attend a church, spirituality generally needs to be approached with care in
counselling, especially for those who have been in a spiritual group and have been
spiritually abused. I suggest that we disarm the phobic fear (Hassan, 2013) and terror of
disobeying God by exploring the ways in which thought reform and the other dynamics were
used in the respective clients’ experiences to layer over their precult personalities and
when/how their sense of spirituality was stolen from them. For instance, another client,
Gavin (age 35), explained to me how he felt that his spirituality had originally been like a
clear, peaceful container within him; but that, since the cult abused him spiritually, the
thought of spirituality caused him great fear—he felt like someone had dirtied it, and it was
hard for him to recover that innocence and sense of peace.
I usually explain spiritual abuse to clients as a psychological process, and I find that their
understanding the dynamics of thought reform separates the spiritual practice from their
own beliefs in God or a higher being, which in turn can help them to reconnect to their
spiritual aspects if they want to. It is necessary for some clients to have a clear break from
that spirituality in order to establish a sense of themselves. It is a personal and individual,
but important, choice.
Working With the CPP
All the time I am working with clients, I work explicitly with the idea of unlayering the CPP.
In some instances, the client and I have drawn a number of outline figures of a person that
represents the client, and we have written words around the various figures to describe
aspects of the client at different stages. For example, one figure may describe the precult
personality, one the CPP, and one the postcult personality. This exercise helps clients to
clarify what they were like, what they want to hold on to, and what they want to eliminate.
For SGAs, for example, the first diagrams would illustrate the persons they were in the cult,
and the exercise includes highlighting those small decisions and times they exerted
themselves in knowing their preferences, or standing up for others, and so on.
In this chapter, we have explored how counsellors can practice the relational,
psychoeducational intensive I have named Time Away for Post Cult Counselling, or TA-PCC.
Individual therapists can practice this fluid and flexible approach to counselling with both
first- and second-generation former cult members and survivors of spiritual abuse anywhere
in the world. The feedback from clients has been positive. As one former member said, he
was “in a war in my head,” and the TA-PCC model helped him process his experience in a
“nontraumatizing way” that resulted in “peace in my head, even though there are still things
I need to process. I can think more clearly and get on with living my life.”
In TA-PCC, we are working to free the individual from the CPP that is laid down in layers,
overlaying and restricting the precult personality or authentic self. As counsellors, we must
hold the conviction that these clients can move forward in their lives in spite of all that has
happened to them.
Briere, J. (2012). Working with trauma: Mindfulness and compassion. In C. K. Germer & R.
D. Siegel (Eds.), Compassion and wisdom in psychotherapy (pp. 265–279). New York,
NY: Guilford Press.
Cialdini, R. (2001). Influence: The psychology of persuasion (revised ed.). London, UK:
Dubrow-Marshall, R. (2010). The influence continuum—The good, the dubious, and the
harmful—Evidence and implications for policy and practice in the 21st century.
International Journal of Cultic Studies, 1(1), 1–12.
Fisher, J. (2009). Psychoeducational aids for working with psychological trauma. Available
Griffin, J., & Tyrrell, I. (2003). Human givens: A new approach to emotional health and
clear thinking. Chalvington, East Sussex, UK: HG Publishing.
Harvey, M. (1996). An ecological view of psychological trauma and recovery. Journal of
Traumatic Stress, 9(1), 3–23.
Hassan, S. (2013). Freedom of mind: Helping loved ones leave controlling people, cults and
beliefs. Newton, MA: Freedom of Mind Press Book.
society. For example, foreigners in the cult meant those outsiders not included in the
group’s enlightened state and therefore of no value to members. James had been
told not to think these issues through in the group, but just to accept them and
meditate; so altering how he approached these issues proved vital to his recovery
and to regaining control of his mind and moving on. Explaining the meaning to me
and coming up with alternative meanings also helped James “chew over” the
language of the group, and helped him halt being triggered into a trance state.
The case of James illustrates how any counsellor might begin the counselling naively, in the
usual way, with the client telling his history, but without realizing that doing so may well be
overwhelming and destabilizing for the client. Just telling the narrative of the story therefore
can be unhelpful, overwhelming, and too intense for the client, especially in the two hourly
intensive sessions. So it is important for the therapist to mix the empathic listening with
Research into working with survivors of trauma supports the view that it is less
overwhelming and easier for them to process trauma if they feel safe, both with the
therapist and internally (Herman, 1992). Sometimes, therefore, it is necessary to delay the
telling of their story until their symptoms are under control or, as suggested above, they
can tell it in a different way (Rothschild, 2010). I address trauma further later in the
Other Key Areas of the Jigsaw Puzzle
In the following subsections, I explore the key areas of the jigsaw that arise with most
former members: influence, cult leader, anger and rage, trauma and triggers, and
spirituality. Addressing these pieces is important in helping former members normalize their
cult experiences because they help explain both the cult dynamics and the individuals’
Influence is when one person or thing causes another to act in a way that he perhaps would
not have thought of if the other person or thing had not influenced, or in some cases,
compelled him to do so. In his research into understanding the psychology of compliance,
Cialdini (2001) decided to investigate the “compliance professionals”—that is, those who
successfully influence others (p. ix). Cialdini provided evidence showing how certain “fixed-
action patterns” (p. 3), which are an almost involuntary human response to certain triggers,
occur in relation to influence. He also identified six key principles of such influence:
reciprocity; commitment and consistency; social proof; authority; liking; and scarcity. He
examined each influence “as to its ability to produce a distinct kind of automatic, mindless
compliance from people, that is, a willingness to say yes without thinking first” (2001, p. x).
People are influenced much of the time, such as through television, the Internet, at school,
and so forth; and influence, to one degree or another, is everywhere (Dubrow-Marshall,
2010a). Cialdini’s research highlights how we are all vulnerable to influence, and his model
of influence is relevant and useful to former cult members. I will explicate the two aspects
of influence I reference most often in my therapy, the law of reciprocity and authority. I
suggest that readers purchase Cialdini’s book for a full explanation of all the patterns.
The Law of Reciprocity
The law of reciprocity applies when someone does us a favor or gives us something for free
and we feel we must reciprocate: Charities send us a free pen in the hope that we will give
them something back. Such a favor is often the first step into a cultic group—for example,
with a free meal, friendship, salvation, or some such thing—and cults often offer what for
some is the greatest favor of all (Martin, 1993). This was true for Clarissa, who came to feel
that the group’s offer of comfort and healing after her boyfriend’s death, and salvation from
hell, were huge favors; and the hope that the organization would fulfill these promises kept
her in the cult for many years. The law of reciprocity also was relevant in Jenny’s situation.
Case Example: Jenny
Jenny (age 62 when she came to see me), had moved to a new town and had not had
time to make friends because she was busy adjusting to her new life. Pleasant people
from a local religious group kept calling at her house; eventually she gave in and
accepted their friendship, allowing them to help her in practical ways. This free help
caused Jenny to feel she ought to reciprocate and attend their religious services
because they had been so kind—and they were insistent that membership and the
religious practices would be beneficial to her and her son, who joined with her.
In retrospect, Jenny deeply regretted her decision to attend because, once she
became a member, the behavior of church members became increasingly bullying
toward her. They eventually poisoned the mind of her son against her and prevented
her from seeing him once she left the group and he remained. She was a broken
woman when she left the group, and it took many years before the two were
reunited. It was only after she got her son out of the group that she was able to begin
to think about recovering. The experience left a deep, dark mark on the whole family,
and Jenny later came to regard the group’s recruitment techniques as deceitful and
tantamount to grooming.
Most cults have a hierarchy with an authoritarian guru, leader, or group of leaders at the
helm (Lifton, 1999); so the issue of authority is key. In many cults, if not all, the guru or
leader is viewed as a higher being of some sort. This scenario leads me into Cialdini’s
principle of authority as a source of influence.
Cialdini’s (2001) research shows that human beings are wired to obey authority—which
includes someone who is dressed in a particular way, such as an individual attired in a
business suit, a priest or guru’s garb, or the white coat of a doctor or scientist. Cult leaders
take advantage of this tendency.
Case Example: Clarissa (cont’d.)
Clarissa told me how she felt that the leader of her cult had to be obeyed no matter
what because he had told her he was especially chosen by God, and there would be
dire consequences if she did not obey him. The consequences were said to be
spiritual, but I suggested to her that they were psychological because she was
induced to do what she was told, like a child, and she lived in terror of the
consequences of disobeying. She began to undo this terror both by coming to
understand that she was wired to obey authority and also by investigating the profile
of a typical cult leader, which is the next piece of the jigsaw I explore.
To understand the profile of a cult leader, I adopt categories from Anthony Storr’s book Feet
of Clay (1996), in which Storr clearly explains the “guru mentality.” I have created on a
handout a checklist of the attributes Storr set down. This checklist allows clients to critically
appraise their cult leader, with the aim of reducing him to the level of human so they can
understand the leader’s humanity and possible psychopathology. I commend the book
because Storr has brought a balance to his argument by also exploring “good gurus” and
those to whom it is safe to turn. This aspect is important because becoming polarized to not
trusting all leaders as a result of idealizing the cult leader is counterproductive (Jenkinson,
Case Example: Clarissa (cont’d.)
Clarissa was amazed to learn that many gurus have had a mental breakdown in their
lives (Storr, 1996), that they are narcissistic and sometimes narcissistic personality
disordered (NPD), grandiose, and that their main aim is subjugation (Shaw, 2014).
She realized that the leader of her cultic church very much fit these criteria, even
though he was not a guru but a pastor who claimed he was chosen by God to heal the
world. She therefore found this exploration helpful and began to stop feeling so guilty
and blaming herself. This process resulted in her feeling angry at the way she had
been deceived, manipulated, and abused.
This leads us into the next piece of the jigsaw, anger and rage.
Anger and Rage
Case Example: Clarissa (cont’d.)
As her TA-PCC progressed, Clarissa began to name her experience as a cult (a
conclusion she came to for herself), and she began to feel angry. She had been told
that “anger is a sin” and therefore suppressed the feelings whenever they came up.
She did this by praying and singing Church songs. (Others, such as James/Sachit,
learned in the group to meditate and suppress their angry feelings.) I suggested to
Clarissa that anger is another feeling that needs to be accepted and processed, and
we looked at how the things she had been told in the cult were designed to shut her
down and suppress these feelings (and weaken her).
I explained to her that the technique to suppress is an aspect both of thought-reform
doctrine over person (in which the doctrine takes precedence over the individual’s
human rights) and dispensing of existence (in which one’s right to existence, at least
as a worthwhile person, may be withdrawn [Lifton, 1989]). I explained that anger
helps us to know what we think, to set our boundaries and to keep ourselves safe, to
help us see the line between ourselves and others, and to know whether or not we
are being abused. I suggested, therefore, that she view anger as a positive emotion
(Parker Hall, 2009).
Because this perspective was quite different from the cult teachings, it took a while
for Clarissa to chew over the idea and come to her own conclusions about it. To make
that easier for her to do, I suggested we separate anger from hot and cold rage, and
that we look at rage as an emotion that results from trauma, which needs to be
healed by facing the trauma that caused the rage (Parker Hall, 2009). I explained to
her that hot rage is focused outward toward others and cold rage is focused inward on
ourselves; and that in her case this was illustrated by her feelings of guilt, shame,
and self-blame. I suggested to her that, in the cult, the leader projected his rage onto
the cult members, and they all, in turn, projected the group rage out to the world
outside; this projection was evident in their seeing society and outsiders as having no
value, being sinful, and so on (Lifton’s dispensing of existence).
As we worked through the Thought Reform sheet and the different areas of the jigsaw
puzzle, Clarissa’s cult experience started to make sense to her. As she began to
understand, she allowed herself to feel her feelings, be angry, address her trauma,
and heal her rage. To do this, she needed help to go against the belief that anger was
wrong, and I helped her to redefine the word for herself. She learned that anger can
be the fundamental component to healing, and so can be a positive emotion.
Trauma and Triggers
Case Example: Clarissa (cont’d.)
Clarissa described that she would fluctuate from feeling overwhelmed, anxious, and
shaky, as if she was having panic attacks, to feeling low in energy, numbed, and
depressed. We identified that she was moving from the state of hyperarousal (fright-
or-flight response) to that of hypoarousal (freeze response), and that these states
were often in response to triggers. Our exploration led us back to thought reform and
often loaded language (Lifton, 1989; Shaw, 2014). Clarissa learned that certain words
took her back to her CPP/Sarah’s mind-set and therefore triggered a sense of panic
As we began the sessions, I checked the room out with Clarissa to ensure that there
were no things present that would trigger her or remind her of bad experiences in the
cult. I did this because it is not possible for someone to process the cult experience
(or any traumatic experience) if she is fearful, anxious, and traumatically
hyperaroused or hypoaroused (Ogden, Minton, & Pain, 2006). Clarissa asked me to
remove the candle I had lit because it reminded her of some of the rituals in the cult.
*Pseudonyms have been used for clients in the case studies to maintain their anonymity and protect their
To this point, I have explained the boundaries I mutually agree with clients so they are clear
about what they will be receiving from me. To summarize, the TA-PCC model is based on
my thinking that in an abusive cult what one takes in is introjected, and a CPP forms in
layers and stages to overlay the precult personality. To undo this process, it is necessary to
understand and challenge the introjects the cult members took in and that were forced upon
them through group influence. As noted, I picture these stages as pieces of a jigsaw puzzle,
which need to be addressed by helping clients use their critical-thinking skills to understand
(chew over) how the CPP formed, and to decide whether to get rid of aspects of the CPP
(eliminate), or to digest it and hold on to any good that they experienced in the cult. This
process leads the former member to reconnect with their precult personality and to become
more aware of who they want to be postcult, bringing together all the experiences in their
life with the aim of moving on. Now let’s explore the TA-PCC model in more depth.
I have identified a number of pieces, or areas, of the jigsaw that therapists can address with
clients; I continue to learn from clients and add more pieces when necessary. These pieces,
which require both psychoeducational and relational approaches (and practitioners can add
their own), can be clustered into three main areas, some of which are listed here:
(a) Dynamics of cult trauma, including influence; thought reform; profile of a cult
leader/guru; theory of trauma;
(b) Psychological and emotional responses to cult trauma, including addressing the
following: reconnecting (first-generation adults) or connecting (SGAs) with their
authentic selves and what gives them pleasure; processing postcult traumatic
stress, hyperarousal, and hypoarousal; learning about feelings and normalizing
responses; dealing with anger and rage; and
(c) Areas of life affected by cult trauma such as learning practical skills such as how to
make friends; what to wear and how to look; finding work; learning how society
works; accessing services (e.g., learning to write a CV).
I provide handouts and information sheets about these various areas that I have gleaned
from many different sources. Clients have offered feedback on how helpful these handouts
are, and how they have often referred to them later.
Case Example: Clarissa (cont’d.)
I gave Clarissa a folder for the handouts, with named dividers that related to the pieces
of the jigsaw. As we covered the different areas, she collected these information sheets,
which gave a sense of coherence and also tools for her to take away with her. She was
able to add her own resources at a later stage, as well.
Sometimes the client and I will decide in the assessment session on the areas we will cover,
although these often change; at other times we keep an open mind about what area we will
start with, and it becomes clear which areas to address next as the counselling proceeds. If
a client is particularly confused, I will start with thought reform because understanding this
helps her to understand the cult dynamics. Dr. Paul Martin illustrated the value of
psychoeducation by using the analogy of a theatre stage, with dry ice obscuring the players.
One can hear the players, and from the sounds can guess where some things are on the
stage. But it is necessary to clear the dry ice to see clearly what is happening. Similarly, this
clarification is what psychoeducation aims to do. As the sessions progress, which piece of
the jigsaw needs to be addressed next will become clear; or we may be addressing one area
and another arises. For example, Clarissa and I were working on the traumatic aftereffects
of her experience, and she disclosed her fear of getting angry or “blowing up” with others.
So we addressed anger by looking at the jigsaw piece related to anger and rage, alongside
trauma theory (see the discussion later in the chapter about these topics). Working in this
interactive, fluid, and flexible way with these issues is core to TA-PCC.
Sharing the Cult Story: Pacing
Case Example: Clarissa (cont’d.)
In some cases, clients think they have to share the history of their cult experience
immediately, and all in one go. Clarissa did this, and she became overwhelmed and
flooded with feelings. I suggested to her that we slow the process down because the
fast pace might relate to the compulsion to confess, a component or category of
thought reform (cult of confession). I explained what might be happening and asked
her what she thought.
Clarissa was tearful and told me of the many confession sessions she had to attend in
the group, and how she was expected to tell all much of the time. She expressed a
sense of relief as I explained that she may be speaking from the perspective of Sarah,
her CPP (the compliant person she became in the cult). I explained that confession
can leave former members feeling exposed, traumatized, and uncomfortable, and I
suggested that this approach might not be therapeutic for her.
She was relieved that TA-PCC did not mean she would have to feel destabilized and
retraumatized. Instead, we would monitor those aspects closely, not avoiding
emotions or upset, but ensuring that she could face the emotional pain and impact of
her experience in a measured way, with support. She said that ”doing it this way was
not so traumatizing.”
Working With the Jigsaw Pieces
As previously stated, I find it is less important to know about the culture of a particular cult
(the client will tell you about that) than to know about the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle—the
psychoeducational areas. The client’s part is to tell the therapist about the cult’s beliefs and
practices and her experiences in the group; the therapist’s part is to help the client apply
the psychoeducational theory—the pieces of the jigsaw—in the context of empathic,
attuned, and relational counselling, with an interactive dialogue. This is a fundamental point
because one cannot be subjected to thought reform and know it (Singer, 2003). So the role
of the therapist is to be knowledgeable and to help highlight blind spots, as in the
counselling examples in this chapter with Clarissa/Sarah and James/Sachit (to follow).
Thought reform is an extreme form of influence (Dubrowo-Marshall, 2010) that affects all
the other jigsaw pieces or areas I have identified, some of which are discussed further
below. Thought reform is therefore a top-level category, although a particular cult may have
especially targeted other areas such as phobia induction (Hassan, 2014). It is, therefore,
important for the therapist to listen and help identify what is most important to that
individual client with his unique experience. The areas that have arisen in clinical counselling
sessions include the following: thought reform; influence; cult leadership; anger and rage;
trauma and triggers; and spirituality. In addition, other areas may arise such as the need to
discuss various definitions of a cult and the myths and faulty beliefs that are held about
cults. These myths may including ideas such as “Individuals would leave if they really
wanted to”; “Christians would never join a cult”; and “Cult members must be mentally ill”
(Martin, 1993), amongst others. I may discuss theories about cult pseudoidentity, including
my own thoughts about introjection (see earlier discussion). Other areas arise such as the
need to understand: critical thinking skills; relationships and boundaries; and emotions,
such as grief, and guilt and shame, amongst others. As these issues arise naturally in the
therapy, I bring my expertise and knowledge of the field to bear and suggest we discuss the
various areas. I also remain constantly open to learning new ideas from former-member
clients; if I do not know about a particular area, I will say so and investigate it further.
Occasionally, I refer the client to an expert in a particular field if I judge that to be
I often start TA-PCC with a handout on which each of the eight components of thought
reform are summarized at the top of a separate sheet for each component, with space so
that that the client can write his story underneath. Therapists may use any of a number of
adapted summaries of the definition of thought reform. To keep this section succinct, I have
adopted Shaw’s (2014) summary of Lifton’s (1989) definitions of thought reform:
Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within
the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree
of isolation from society at large.
Mystical Manipulation. There is manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous
but in fact were planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to
demonstrate divine authority or spiritual advancement or some special gift or talent
that will then allow the leader to reinterpret events, scripture, and experiences as he or
Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are
constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection.
The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.
[Cult of] Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a
personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members’ “sins,”
“attitudes,” and “faults” are discussed and exploited by the leaders.
Sacred Science. The group’s doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate
Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group.
The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.
Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways
so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-
terminating clichés, which serve to alter members’ thought processes to conform to the
group’s way of thinking.
Doctrine over Person. Members’ personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred
science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the
ideology of the group.
Dispensing of Existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right
to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside
world are not saved… [they are] unenlightened, unconscious, and they must be
converted to the group’s ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the
group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all
credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be
rejected also (Lifton, 1989). (Shaw, 2014, p. 58–59)
Working Flexibly With Psychoeducation
As illustrated previously, when a client launches into his story, it may be overwhelming for
him. So I usually suggest that we move to a more interactive, psychoeducational approach.
The following case illustration offers an example.
Case Example: James
I worked with James (age 28), who was known as Sachit in the cult. He had left a
pseudo-Hindu cult 2 years previously, after 10 years of membership. When James
was a member, he had to attend long sessions, sharing his negative thoughts
(confessing) with the group and then meditating to eliminate those thoughts. When
he shared his cult story, he would immediately enter into an altered state of
consciousness as a result of the trance-inducing meditation practice. This also
happened with his family when they asked him about his experiences, and it
happened in the session with me. This response was a clear indication of learned
behavior within his pseudopersonality, Sachit. The challenge was how to help him
not to be triggered into this state of mind, but to help him tell his story in a different
We had already established that James had been subjected to thought reform, so I
suggested we approach his story using the Thought Reform sheet. He was relieved to
have a different way to approach telling his story. We spent approximately three
days that consisted of 12 hours of one-to-one therapy, during which we went slowly
through each of the eight components of thought reform, sometimes interweaving
those components with and discussing other jigsaw pieces (such as trauma or the
James wrote down some of his experiences on the Thought Reform sheet, and the
action of writing helped to break his compulsion to go into a meditative trance. I also
wrote down what he said and photocopied it for him. As he told me about one
component, I would identify other components of thought reform for him and we
would discuss them, interweaving between each one. This process meant he was
thinking again, and thinking critically. I encouraged him to let me know if he
disagreed with anything I said, or if his views differed from mine.
In one session, James was telling me about the very complex and controlling belief
system he had to follow; he said that, if he did not follow these beliefs, he would be
disowned by God, with serious consequences. We looked at the sacred-science
component of thought reform, (wherein the leader claims unique insights into the
science of the world and the universe [Lifton, 1989]).
While James was talking, he used a good deal of clichéd language, which I did not
understand. I pointed this out to him, and we looked at the definition of the loaded-
language component of thought reform; this “group speak” is learned and replaces
previously used language (Lifton, 1989). We wrote down a list of loaded language
that James had used in the cult and compared it to the common meaning used in
giving the client handouts and discussing them, and occasionally watching TV programs, on
DVD or the Internet, that explain or illustrate the dynamics of cults. As the TA-PCC model
developed, I decided to mix my metaphors and adopted the idea of jigsaw puzzle pieces to
represent the layers. Although it is merely a metaphor, this idea has come to represent the
TA-PCC model. The aim is to aid understanding and offer therapeutic support that results in
the unlayering of the CPP. It is, therefore, important that the therapist understands the
psychoeducational areas, including thought reform, and can apply that understanding to the
Different Belief Systems
One challenge therapists face when working with former cult members is that the culture,
practices, and beliefs of one cult differs from another. Cults may be political,
psychotherapeutic, religious, spiritual, New Age—in fact, any group or human relationship
may become cultic. Shaw (2014) has noted that “It can be quite astonishing to learn how
similar the relational dynamics of leader and follower are from group to group, regardless of
how outwardly different the group, its ideology, leaders, and followers may be.” (p. 49). I
agree, and have observed that most groups that can be defined as abusive cults
operationalize similar psychological strategies to control their members. And so I think in
terms of the packaging of the cult being different, but the psychological dynamics being
similar or the same.
The interactive and flexible nature of TA-PCC allows the counsellor to apply the approach to
former members of most types of cults because, as they discuss the different
psychoeducational areas or jigsaw pieces, clients will say whether or not each is applicable
to their experiences, or the therapist can gently challenge their blind spots if that seems
applicable. This process further encourages critical thinking and empowers clients. It also
alleviates the pressure for therapists to know about the culture of every cult, which simply
is not possible. Former members from the same group can never have exactly the same
experience, and counsellors who think they know about a particular cult may make
assumptions and miss certain aspects of cult life that are particular to an individual client.
TA-PCC allows clients to explore their own experiences of the cult within a framework, and
counsellors to continue to learn about groups’ practices and culture with an open mind and
from individual clients’ perspectives.
Setting the Scene: Client Case illustration—Clarissa
I now illustrate the process of setting up TA-PCC with a composite case study of Clarissa (age
42), although this process would apply equally to a client of any age or gender.
Case Example: Clarissa*
Clarissa had read about me on my website and left a message on my confidential
voice mail. I called her back, established e–mail contact, and arranged a time for an
informal chat, which took place a week later. The purpose of this conversation was
to: make contact and informally assess one another, and for me to make sure Clarissa
was a genuine caller; make an initial assessment of whether she was well enough to
engage in therapy; and begin to establish rapport for further work, should that ensue.
Clarissa’s reason for contacting me was that she wanted to clarify whether the group
she had left some 5 years earlier was a cult. She also wanted help addressing her
mood swings, depression, and confusion, which she thought resulted from her time
in the group.
When we spoke at the agreed time, I described my service and assured Clarissa that
she could ask me any questions about my training and what I offer. I did this because
some former members report having been deceitfully recruited (Martin, 1993)—that
is, they thought they were joining one type of group only to find later that it was quite
different from that advertised. Because many former members have been expected
to take others at face value and have had their trust betrayed, I consciously
encourage potential clients to question me. I offered to provide a reference if Clarissa
required one (she did not). I remained aware that I must be realistic about what I
could offer, and did not make inflated promises or assume successful outcomes.
Clarissa decided she was interested in attending TA-PCC, and she was able to pay (I
sometimes offer a reduced fee or concessionary slot for those who struggle to pay).
It was important that we meet, if at all possible, before she attended TA-PCC; she
lived only a 3-hour drive away, so she decided she would come and meet me for a
formal, qualitative, 2-hour assessment session. (If someone lives abroad, we arrange
a video conferencing session before they actually attend.) Clarissa and I met at a
prearranged time 3 weeks later, and in that session I gained further information,
—How she was recruited into the cult. At 27, Clarissa had been spiritually curious and
was handed a leaflet about a lively local church. She quickly joined a live-in
community and worked for them for 10 years. Her name was changed to Sarah in the
cult, and this name came to signify her CPP.
—What her life was like before joining, including family relationships. Clarissa had
had mainly a stable life, although she had experienced some bullying at school. The
most significant factor for her at the time she joined the group was that she was
grieving for her boyfriend, who had been killed in a motorbike accident. She later
realized that the church had taken advantage of her when she was vulnerable because
representatives promised emotional healing and unconditional love, but neither
promise was fulfilled.
—How she had left 5 years previously. Clarissa had been cast out of the group because
of her “rebellion”—she had questioned the leader and his practices. Although she felt
relieved to have left, she also felt guilty and that she was a failure. It is important to
explore and understand the impact of the manner of one’s leaving a cult because that
will have different treatment implications (Lalich & Tobias, 2006).
—What her support systems were, including her current relationship with family and
friends. Clarissa had been cut off from her family and had waited a year after leaving
the group before she reestablished contact with them because she had been so
ashamed of the hurtful way she had treated them, rejecting them and telling them
they were going to hell because they were so sinful—things she also was being told
by the group. Her family welcomed her back, but they did not understand what had
happened to her.
—Whether she had seen a psychiatrist or had a mental health diagnosis. She had not.
Clarissa had seen two counsellors. One was kind but ineffective because he did not
understand what she had been through in the cult; and one kept trying to take her
back to her upbringing, implying she had been sexually abused and that this was why
she joined a cult. This counselling had been unhelpful and had destabilized her further
because she felt the only solid part of her (her precult personality) was being
—Whether she was on medication. She was not.
—How she might respond to the intensive nature of TA-PCC. I enquired about any
other issues that might be relevant to Clarissa attending TA-PCC. She felt she was
stable enough to attend, but decided to ask an understanding, empathic friend to
come with her for support and company, and to explore the beautiful countryside with
her between sessions.
I requested that Clarissa tell her doctor she was attending TA-PCC because she had
seen him for depression a number of times over the years. This communication, in
addition to her attending with a friend, added another layer of support and safety. I
gave her my Beginning of Face-to-Face Counselling sheet to complete, which enabled
me to see at a glance the issues she was dealing with and also helped me to monitor
the effectiveness of TA-PCC. This sheet included questions related to many aspects
of Clarissa’s life, including practical mental health and cult-related issues. The sheet
asked her to identify whether the issue had been a problem for under 6 months, more
than 6 months, or continuous. It also included cult-related, trauma-related, and
practical questions. Then, when we finished the counselling, I sent her an Ending of
Face-to-Face Counselling sheet with similar criteria listed, for her to complete. Her
follow-up responses provided a useful measure of change. A number of counselling
services local to me also use this same questionnaire.
Once Clarissa confirmed that I was the right person to work with her, and I
ascertained that she was stable enough to attend, we agreed on dates and times. I
asked for payment of one-third of the cost, which was nonrefundable because the
time was set aside for her and therefore I could not work with anyone else. This
arrangement was covered in an Agreement for TA-PCC and was clear to her from the
outset (see the Agreement for TA-PCC section that follows). I was clear with Clarissa
that, if I cancelled, I would refund the full amount. It is important to be clear about
money matters because many former-member clients have been taken advantage of
in relation to money in the cult.
When clients decide they want to work with me, I give them information about
accommodations in the area and links to local accommodation websites. They stay in
a bed and breakfast, hotel, or holiday cottage. It is better for clients to find the
accommodations that suit them and their budget, rather than for me to try to make
arrangements for them; although when clients have come from abroad, I have given
more advice and have sometimes checked out a property for them. Some clients have
offered the feedback that, after the intensity of their days in the group, they prefer
the option of finding their own accommodations and not being with other former
members. Clarissa decided to stay in a holiday cottage with her friend.
Agreement for TA-PCC
Clarissa and I discussed my counselling agreement, which sets out the boundaries,
ethics, and expectations of the TA-PCC. These details include the cost; cancellation
policy; confidentiality agreement, including when that might need to be broken, such
as for child protection or if the client or another person is in danger of harm; list of
next of kin to contact if the client should become ill while attending; and information
about the client’s doctor, psychiatrist, or both. This clarity is necessary with all client
groups; but for former-member clients attending TA-PCC, it is essential. Producing
an agreement is regarded as good practice in the United Kingdom; it is not a legal
document but serves as a guideline for how I work. Some client’s fear the agreement
will be controlling and so struggle with it, but no one has ever refused to sign it. Many
find the clarity helpful, and I work hard to ensure that they give me honest feedback
I asked Clarissa to tell me if there was anything she was unhappy with. She was
worried I might contact her doctor without her permission, and I reassured her that
I would tell her if I found it necessary to do so. This understanding was so that she
did not feel I was taking the power out of her hands. If a client requests changes, I
usually make them as long as they are compliant with my code of ethics.
Focus and Goals for TA-PCC
I asked Clarissa what she wanted the focus of the TA-PCC and the outcome to be. I
explained to her that this information would then guide the work we did together.
Because we would not be able to address everything in her life, it was important that
she decide what she wanted to address, this understanding would make the therapy
process more manageable. Clarissa was unclear what she wanted to cover because
she felt so confused about what had happened to her, so I suggested that she decide
on an overall objective. She decided on “I want to understand what happened to me,
to get rid of the guilt; and I want to feel happier.” I explained that I could not
guarantee the outcome, but that I would do my utmost to address her wishes. This
focus then guided me as to which areas of the jigsaw puzzle we might cover.
The Counselling Environment
When the day arrived for Clarissa to start TA-PCC, I ensured that my consulting room
was warm and tidy, smelled nice, and had some greenery and flowers in it. We would
be spending a good deal of time in that environment, and it was important that
Clarissa felt comfortable and safe.
Because there is a power imbalance inherent in counselling (UKCP, 2009), it also is
important that former-member clients regain a sense of personal power by making
as many choices as they can; one such choice is where they sit during the therapy
sessions. I see the therapeutic encounter as a setting for these choices to occur:
Clients can practice exercising their power with me in benign ways. If I see a danger
of a client becoming abusive, which has only happened on very rare occasions, I will
endeavour to challenge her and help her to process what is happening; I also will
seek extra supervision.
In some cases, the client will attend the initial sessions with family, a friend, or
whoever has come with them for support and to increase the client’s sense of safety.
Former members often mistrust their own judgement and feel safer having a trusted
other alongside to help them judge whether or not I am trustworthy. Or a family
member who has lost his child or sibling for many years may also wish to check me
out. I am flexible about when the client wants her supporter to be present, although
I usually encourage the client to work with me alone once she has gotten used to me.
Clarissa did not want her friend to attend with her and felt safe enough with me on
Page 215- 218
A Clinician’s Guide to Working with Former Members and Families
Published by International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA), 2017
Posted online with permission of ICSA
RELATIONAL PSYCHOEDUCATIONAL INTENSIVE: TIME AWAY FOR
This chapter is dedicated to the memory of Dr. Paul Martin, with thanks.
The relational psychoeducational intensive, Time Away for Post Cult Counselling (TA-PCC), is
a fluid and flexible approach to counselling both first-generation and second-generation
former cult members and survivors of spiritual abuse. The aim of TA-PCC is twofold. First,
this approach allows clients an extended (intensive) amount of time in which to begin to
make sense of what happened to them in the cult (psychoeducation). Second, it allows for
them to process the emotional impact of their experiences in an empathic, supportive, and
knowledgeable therapeutic relationship (relational counselling). To achieve the intended
outcomes, former-member clients who are not local to the therapist stay in the area and
attend counselling for a varying number of days that are prebooked and have been mutually
agreed upon. Clients who are local can attend both weekly and longer intensive sessions, as
required. TA-PCC is delivered in 2-hour slots for up to 4 hours in a day, with at least a 2-
hour break between sessions; sessions may span up to 2 weeks in length (and more if
necessary). It is usual for clients to follow up the TA-PCC with further sessions which may
be face-to-face, on telephone or by video conferencing. Because TA-PCC is not limited to
weekly sessions, which is common therapeutic practice, the approach is intense for
therapists, who will need to practice with a high level of supervision support, integrity, self-
awareness, and self-care.
In the following sections, I describe the evolution of TA-PCC and explore my thinking behind
this model. I then explain in some detail, by following a composite case-study client,
Clarissa, the practicalities of the approach so that readers can emulate the model.
Evolution of TA-PCC
TA-PCC arose in response to the lack of trained and licensed therapists who were
knowledgeable about cults and ethical practice. A number of different aspects contributed to
my development of TA-PCC: personal experience being a member of, leaving, and
recovering from a cult; core counselling training; clinical experience; internship at
Wellspring Retreat and Resource Centre and learning about the Wellspring thought-reform
model; attendance at ICSA conferences; research findings from my work on a Master’s in
Gestalt Psychotherapy; and influence of my doctoral research study. In the next section, I
explore two of these aspects: the Wellspring thought-reform model, and findings from my
Master’s program research.
Wellspring Thought-Reform Model
The TA-PCC emulates the Wellspring thought-reform model (hereafter, the Wellspring
model) but is delivered in a private-practice setting rather than a residential retreat facility.
The key elements of the Wellspring model that contributed to the evolution of TA-PCC were
that clients would usually stay in the residential facility for 2 weeks (sometimes more or
less). They would receive 2 hours of one-to-one counselling each weekday with one of the
therapists. Alongside this schedule, they attended afternoon group discussions, which were
psychoeducational in nature. In these sessions, clients would come together and discuss a
topic or watch DVDs about issues relevant to their cult experiences. The advantage of these
sessions was that clients would meet other former members of different types of cults and
hear about their experiences. This interaction enabled them to begin to view their
experiences in different ways; it also helped them realize they were not the only ones who
had been deceived by a cult, and that the dynamics between different cults are surprisingly
similar. The Wellspring model entailed clients learning about, understanding, and applying
the principles of thought reform (discussed in the following sections), alongside other
psychological theories, to their cult or spiritually abusive experiences. It has been
demonstrated that the Wellspring program is a powerful tool to help clients more clearly
understand their cult experience and recover from it (Dubrow-Marshall, 2010).
Master’s Research and Beyond
For my Master’s in Gestalt Psychotherapy, I conducted phenomenological research with
eight former cult members, asking them, “What helped you recover from an abusive cult
experience?” I learned that the following components helped:
• Understanding the cult experience through reading, books, TV programs, relevant
• Processing the emotional impact of the cult experience—e.g., disarming shame;
attending to PTSD and normalizing symptoms; attending to precult vulnerabilities
(first-generation former members) and developmental issues (second-generation
adults [SGAs]) (relational counselling)
• Getting rid of the introjected cult pseudopersonality (CPP) and reconnecting with the
precult personality or authentic self
• Reconnecting with family and friends
• Learning to make one’s own choices about appearance, what to eat, where to work
• Being with other former cult members (for example, former-member support and
• Warning others about cults
• Returning to work and study, including, for some, training as a counsellor
The Development of and Thinking Behind TA-PCC
I applied all that I learned from my Master’s research to TA-PCC, but the aspect of the
research that intrigued me the most was getting rid of the CPP and reconnecting with the
precult personality. I continued to investigate this piece and published a paper in which I
creatively explored how the CPP forms (Jenkinson, 2008). A number of authors have written
about the pseudoidentity or pseudopersonality (Hassan, 2013; Singer, 2003; West & Martin,
1994), and some have suggested that it is a dissociated part of the personality. I argue that
it is more helpful to view the CPP as an introjected part of the personality and suggest that
it mimics dissociation (Jenkinson, 2008, p. 216). This is an important point in terms of how
one conceptualizes the recovery process, and for understanding the TA-PCC model that I set
out in this chapter.
West and Martin (1994) explored the history of the concept of pseudoidentity and stated
that “This personality was superimposed upon the original [personality] which, while not
completely forgotten, was enveloped within the shell of the pseudo-identity” (p. 271).
Social-identity theory of the group is a concept developed within social psychology based on
the assumption that groups provide members with a social identity. “Social identities not
only describe attributes, but, very importantly, also prescribe what one should think and
how one should behave as a member… Social identity is that part of the self-concept that
derives from group membership” (Hogg & Vaughan, 2011 (6th ed.), p. 415). Dubrow-
Marshall (2010) extended these ideas and explicated the concept of totalist identity, which
he described as “an explanation in social psychological terms for the specific type of
psychopathology that results, for some people, from these specific types of group [cult]
settings” (p. 11). He also noted that
a group member … is under a lot of pressure, but the pressure is essentially self-
inflicted because the group norms have been internalised to become part of who the
person is—the “psychological group”. . . Every group act or behaviour backs up that big
part of you that is the group
. . . and at the same time reinforces the group identity. (Dubrow-Marshall, 2010b, pp.
These theories are useful in conceptualizing and theorizing about the dynamics and
damaging effects of being in a cult, but they do not necessarily suggest an explanation of
how the CPP forms. I suggest that the internalizing process that results in a pseudoidentity
or totalist identity is introjection. The totalist identity increasingly suppresses preexisting
parts of the individual’s personality as the personality is unduly influenced by the cult
I will briefly explain my thinking before I move on to describe the TA-PCC model in more
detail. I start by discussing dissociation, and then I explore introjection.
As noted, some writers suggest that the pseudoidentity is a dissociated part of the
personality. Dissociation occurs on a continuum (West & Martin, 1994). At the extreme,
where there has been abuse and trauma, the personality may split—the individual
dissociates—in order not to know or feel the abuse (Shaw, 2014) and in order to cope (van
der Hart, Nijenhuis, & Steele, 2006). We can define dissociation as “. . .the process (or its
result) whereby a coordinated set of activities, thoughts, attitudes or emotions becomes
separated from the rest of a person’s personality and functions independently” (Reber &
Reber, 2001, p. 208).
It might seem from these quotations that the personality developed in the cult is a
dissociated part. But to support former members in their recovery process, I think it is more
useful to see this pseudopersonality as an alien part, not a fundamental part, of the
individual’s personality. It is formed in response to the influence and pressures one
experiences to conform within the cult (Jenkinson, 2008), and as a result of the thought-
reform system active within that environment.
The CPP is, therefore, not a dissociated part (which would need to be integrated), but an
introjected part that needs “chewing over” and either digesting or eliminating (Jenkinson,
2008). Integrating an alien pseudopart is not a wise move. Whether one conceptualizes
these processes as dissociation, or totalist identity, or both, I suggest that understanding
introjection and the process of “getting rid” of introjects (and therefore getting rid of the
CPP—albeit kindly) is useful for former cult members, and the process on which my thinking
Gestalt psychotherapy defines introjection as
. . .material—a way of acting, feeling, evaluating—that you have taken into your system
of behavior, but that you have not assimilated in such fashion as to make it a genuine
part of your organism. (Perls, Hefferline, & Goodman, 1951, p. 433)
“It is difficult to digest and gain nourishment from” that which we have taken “in from the
environment” if we have not chewed it over and digested it (Jenkinson, 2008, p. 216),
which is the case in a cult. Perls et al. (1951) stated that, in introjection, the individual
takes in the material “on the basis of a forced acceptance, a forced (and therefore pseudo)
identification, … so that it is actually a foreign body…,” but the organism resists it being
dislodged” (p. 433). “In the case of a cult, there is often little opportunity for the individual
to dislodge or digest it without leaving, getting into a great deal of trouble, or becoming
psychologically destabilised” (Jenkinson, 2008, p. 217).
As Singer (2003) stated, postcult, the “necessary adjustments can be summed up as
coming out of the pseudopersonality” (p. 301). She presents these adjustments in a
a kind of peeling off of the outer layer of identity that was taken on while in the cult.
The process is a matter of recovering one’s self and one’s value system, and of keeping
whatever good was learned during cult days while discarding all the not-so-good. (p.
Singer’s (2003) analogy of the individual taking on the layers of the CPP in the cult, which
later need to be peeled off, caused me to consider the CPP being layered on. West and
Martin (1994) referred to this layering as a shell. A number of clients had used similar
analogies, with some referring to the CPP as a layer of tarmac (Jenkinson, 2008, p. 217)
overlaying the precult personality. I have merged the Gestalt idea of introjects with Singer’s
idea of layering and “suggest that the pseudopersonality is not a dissociated part that needs
integrating” but “an introjected part” (taken on in layers and stages) “that needs chewing
over and digesting, allowing what is nourishing to remain and eliminating the rest” (p. 219).
This point of unlayering is key in the TA-PCC model. My thinking behind the model is that
the counselling enables the client to unlayer the CPP through a therapeutic relationship and
intensive psychoeducation. First-generation former members can reconnect with their
precult authentic self, and both first- and second/third-generation former members can
decide who they want to be postcult as they critically appraise what happened to them. The
counselling therefore supports them to decide for themselves what to keep (and move
forward with) and what to discard or eliminate.
Each CPP layer that was layered down, such as influence, thought reform, anger and rage,
or guilt (amongst many others, as discussed later in the chapter) has a psychological
explanation. Identifying and naming the psychological processes enables the former
members to understand more clearly the dynamics that occurred within the cult. For
example, in respect to understanding thought reform, it is typically a relief for clients that
information is available that can help them explain totalist control. From the perspective of
what the cult did to them, providing them with an explanation of how the CPP was laid down
in layers, rather than simply having them look at their personal issues (including family of
origin), ensures that they are not victimized and blamed all over again (Singer, 2003).
These ideas are based on the Wellspring research data, which demonstrates that the
Wellspring model is an effective method of counselling former members. The role of the
therapist is to support the clients and help highlight their blind spots for them because they
still may be inclined to believe the cult’s version, that they are “sinful,” “unenlightened,”
“negative,” and so forth. Consequently, it is vital that counsellors understand, or be open to
learning, so they can explore these areas together with their clients.
Because of the great success of the Wellspring model, and because TA-PCC is hard work
and can potentially be destabilizing for clients, delivering the therapy within a moderated,
intensive, retreat aspect is helpful. Accomplishing this entails the following for each client:
getting away from normal life to a beautiful country setting; the one-to-one, supportive,
relational psychotherapeutic aspects; and the psychoeducational aspects, which include
The Vow Part Two | Official Teaser | HBO
New Jersey Local News
The Vow Season 2 Release Date: Cast| Plot| Trailer and Where to Watch the Vow Season 2?
September 15, 2022
[ … ]
The Vow Season 2 Release Date
as per pop sugar The Vow season 2 will release on HBO on October 17.
[ … ]
The Vow Season 2 plot
The second season of NXIVM is likely to provide new proof as well as troubling discoveries about the organization’s leader, Keith Raniere. The court has charged him with sex trafficking and conspiracy. Because his sentence is slated to expire in October 2020, we should expect to see him more in the coming seasons.
The Vow Season 2 Release Date
His inner circle, friends, and family, as well as the American leadership system, will be better understood. Because the legal team includes both attorneys and lawyers, we’ll get to see the supporters take on the legal team.
It is also expected that Claire Bronfman’s sentence would be shown. Nancy Salzman, co-founder of NXIVM, will join Nicky Clyne and Moira Kim Penza in the upcoming season.
The Vow Season 2 Cast
The show’s producers have yet to reveal the cast of The Vow’s second season as of this writing. We’ll keep you updated as soon as we acquire new information! You can’t escape the fact that the primary cast will be reunited.
Even if the supporting cast is reshuffled, we are confident that the primary cast will not be replaced. If all goes as planned, the original Season 1 cast should return. As a result, the following actors might join the cast of “The Vow”:
Davis encourages Afghan farmers to transition from opium to saffron as a source of revenue.
Sarah Edmondson is a voice actor in addition to being an actress and podcaster. She is well known for her supporting roles on Hallmark, her role as “Lina” in the Bratz flicks, and her voice work on Geronimo Stilton. Keith Raniere and Edmondson co-founded NXIVM, a multi-level marketing organization.
Bouchey left NXIVM in 2009, but her journey did not end there. She was still harassed by Raniere’s supporters. She was a member of the “NXIVM Nine” and initially addressed Raniere about the group’s alleged wrongdoings before providing information to authorities.
Anthony ‘Nippy’ Ames
[ … ]
The FBI, the Federal Bureau of Intimidation, paid a Russian agent for false information to Frame Donald Trump!
BREAKING: FBI Paid For Russian Disinformation To Frame Trump, Says GOP Lawmaker
“… that’s why we set up other independent entities to regulate, and if necessary investigate… ”
You serious Mr. Longworth? You go to church often or have you set up your own church because you found a profitable niche in the industry?
You must be working for the “independent entity” that has brought public shootings under control in the U.S. … you got the NRA by the neck and kicked in the face most of their directors of the board! You were essentially the sole cause for their descent into financial oblivion, weren’t you? It’s just that you are a modest chap who enjoys levitating under the radar range, ye?
You have such beautiful biceps, I like them because they are yours!
Relevant tweet from Nicki Clyne (twitter handle @NickiClyne) just now.
She’d sent out this tweet earlier this morning:
Then she commented on her earlier tweet with a retweet:
Then she subsequently tweeted about this:
So Peter – do you still fear that Nicki is a subversive and insidious threat to our democracy and our American way of life?
Yes, Alanzo, I’m afraid I do, though not as an individual, but rather as part of a growing number of disaffected people who no longer believe in the legitimacy of federal institutions.
Nicki is on the record as siding with the far right, both on her Twitter account with its followers, and in interviews she has given, which are on her website. I remember one of the posts on Twitter was the way certain words are being overused now. Examples she gave were “nazi”, “fascist” and “white supremacist”. The point she was trying to make was that by overusing such words people are undermining their meaning. Whereas this may sometimes be the case, the unfortunate reality, as I pointed out, is that Western societies have for some time been moving inexorably to the right, most recently in Sweden. A couple of weeks after this post came the mass shooting in Buffalo, New York, perpetrated by – you remember – a white supremacist.
Anyone who denies the legitimacy of the 2020 election is in my view a threat to democracy by definition. Anyone who seeks to restrict people’s right to vote in any way is a threat to democracy by definition. Toxic platitudes abound on Twitter, which is why it has been found to be the most nefarious and divisive social media platform by some margin – it just doesn’t lend itself to indepth discussion or debate.
If Nicki wants to come out on Twitter and clearly state that she fully accepts the results of the 2020 election, I’ll eat my hat. Why don’t you also tell her to come off the fence on the Roe issue? The only real issue she keeps banging on about is the alleged FBI tampering of Cami’s photos. She seems to be jumping the gun on that one as there has so far not been, as far as I’m aware, any official findings published on that one. Should we therefore not wait for, in Nicki’s words, due process to be carried out? Oh, and by the way Alanzo, perhaps you might want to let Nicki know that by criticising the objectivity of the jury in the Raniere case for having two muslim women on board just comes across as racist.
I’m certainly with Nicki on the seriousness of “when a government abuses its power”, especially when its executive branch refuses to accept they’ve lost an election, tries to coerce governors to overturn ballot results, inspires insurrections, and illegally removes top secret documents to private residences. Next time we really could be fighting in the streets, so let’s just hope the federal institutions are there to break it up.
I find it funny that Nicki posts all sorts of [re]tweets about prison issues, like she gave a flying fuck years ago when her lover boy wasn’t in prison, and as if they will get him out of it. These cult deadenders like to go on about others not using their real name on social media accounts or comments as a mark of inauthenticity, but if their master Keith was never in prison, or on the infinitesimal chance that he was somehow released from prison, their inauthentic asses would forget about all of it like a fart in the wind, just like they “forgot” about dancing outside of the MDC once he was moved to Tucson.
NXVIM was all about Keith’s ego and his pleasure. Nicki is not the only person he conned. Just imagine what Keith could have become if he had put his talent for persuasion into something constructive.
Keith’s cult can try as hard as they like, but they are wasting their time. He is not getting out of jail. Hopefully they will wake up and move on with their lives. Until then I advise avoiding them.
“She ain’t a dumbass – she gotta a nice ass.”
I thought Camilla didn’t testify?
“The victim herself, Camila, testified that Raniere met her age 13, and photographed her nude and had sex with her at 15, when he was 45.
Texts obtained by journalist Sarah Berman in her book on NXIVM show Raniere later telling Camila his slaves would ‘be branded with my monogram’.
‘Branded like cattle?’ she replied. ‘You want to burn me?’
‘You don’t want to burn for me?’ Raniere responded. “
She did not testify at trial. She gave a victim statement after the verdict and before the sentencing. She stated she had a sexual relationship with him starting at age 15.
About naked photographs Raniere took of her when she was a teenager, she said:
“As a 15-year-old, that is not something you easily forget. We had sexual contact during every meeting we ever had. When he took the photos was no exception.”’
This girl is a mental midget. Too bad she and the crew are stuck repeating the same mistakes.
Someone using a real name with something intelligent and eloquent to share. I don’t see writing this strong on FrankReport very often.
How do we know it’s their real name though?
Excellent post and spot on analyses.
She’s just blinded by emotional attachment, which is ironic, since NXIVM philosophy effectively took from the Buddhist philosophy of attachment as its own.
She has bound the integrity of her being to a useless vow which she doesn’t see as such, but which is her prerogative. However, this doesn’t deny the fact that her objective discernment is lacking. And this is dissonant to her thought processes, and so she doubles down with only what concords with her current state of being because if she doesn’t, she will have to lose herself and all she believed in to find herself again.
Don’t know that Nicki is a dumbass.
But she’s not particularly bright.
A photo is worth a 1000 words.
Especially if you’re the feds.
And trying to pinpoint Keith Raniere’s location in Mexico.
Peter Longworth wrote:
Stop right there.
Human mainstream societies have always contained minority sub-cultures and minority religions that believed differently. From Africa to Asia to Europe to North America, there has never been a mainstream human society that didn’t have dissenting minorities.
That you feel threatened by this, and are not drawn to tolerance of those minorities who believe differently from you, is a very disturbing trend of our present mainstream society brought about by the bigoted intolerance of AntiCultism.
Remember how the Jews were a minority religion in Europe? And for centuries of dehumanizing propaganda by the Christian European Mainstream, it all finally culminated in The Final Solution – genocide for the Jews?
We tell ourselves we’re a free society.
But we aren’t really, are we Peter?
In a truly free society, with true freedom of belief and speech, diversity of beliefs and values would be prized and protected – embraced as a strength.
But you see it as a threat.
You should be embracing Nicki’s diverse beliefs and values, not threatened by them. You should be recognizing Nicki’s right to believe differently and respecting it.
Your urge to conformity of thought and uniformity of belief will not bring you happiness once everyone believes as you do. As it has throughout human history, your urges for conformity, if they are allowed to fester and given governmental power, will bring about destruction and murder.
I know where the road from AntiCultism leads.
It leads to genocide.
If you think it can’t happen here, you don’t know the history of your species.
Alanzo doesn’t get it. Of course there should be and there is space for minorities in society.
To translate a critical position toward a cult as NXIVM into a possible lead up to genocide, like the genocide of Jews in WWII, is beyond insane.
Just to pick up on some of your points, Alanzo:
I have absolutely no problem with people’s freedom to express any ideas they wish to. On the contrary, free speech is something our ancestors fought for with their lives, and I would willingly give my own life in its defence. However, there are some caviats:
Hate speech that might provoke people into violent acts against others or which causes hatred of groups of people because of their ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, culture or other defining characteristic should not be tolerated. Similarly, actively and knowingly engaging in disinformation (as the fossil fuel industry has been doing for the last 50 years) should also warrant a degree of criminal liability. In this respect, social media platforms should be as accountable as any other publication company.
I have nothing per se against cults, or preventing people from joining them. However, cults, just like everyone else, are not above the law. In the case of NXIVM they were clearly acting outside the law, and this was proven beyond all reasonable doubt even if you exclude the Cami evidence: Raniere would have gone down for a long time just based on the tax evasion.
‘Free’ is a relativist construct when we talk about society. Thankfully in the West we do have certain freedoms: to choose our governments, to protest, to say what we like, to get educated and choose our career path, to marry who we like, to follow our sexual orientation etc. etc.
What we are seeing at the moment is a rolling back of those freedoms: gerrymandering deprives certain groups of people of their rights to be represented, new laws make protesting harder and less effective, cutting budgets impacts education. Worryingly, recent rulings from the supreme court threaten not just women’s rights over their own bodies and their health, but even gay people’s right to marry, and perhaps even marriage between people of different ethnicities.
Diversity of ideas and beliefs is essential to the health of all societies – it’s also what makes life interesting. What worries me is the ever more frequent attacks on the mainstream media, most of which come from the far right. You only have to look at Putin’s Russia or Xi’s China to see where that leads. Donald Trump was often vocal in his castigation of the fake news media, all the while spouting his own toxic stream of properly fake news, or “alternative facts” as his press secretary liked to put it.
Finally, I would love to embrace Nicki’s diverse beliefs and values. The problem is (and I have done my fair share of research!), I’m really not sure what they are. Physically pushing yourself beyond endurance? I regularly do that in the gym. Thinking women are inherently weak, selfish and entitled? Some are, some aren’t – just like men. Sticking up for the loony right? They’re the ones trying to take away our freedoms. OK, raves are great, but I’d say it’s a while since Nicki necked an E.
Don’t worry, Alanzo, I’m all too familiar with the history of our species, which is why I’m also so concerned about its immediate future.
—Human mainstream societies have always contained minority sub-cultures and minority
Stop right there!
Everyone already is aware of this cultural phenomenon.
Do us all a favor, Alanzo, please stop quoting Noam Chomsky.
“You should be embracing Nicki’s diverse beliefs and values, not threatened by them. You should be recognizing Nicki’s right to believe differently and respecting it.”
@Alanzo: Just want you to know I agree with you on this. I don’t understand the attitude of some that the NXIVM5 should be silenced. Some people who’ve deemed the whole of NXIVM 100% bad seem to think if the NXIVM5 (or god forbid, Keith Raniere) are given any platform to be heard, they will somehow poison the populace. I think that’s absurd. Besides, it’s not like they are trying to incite violence. They’re expressing their point of view.
Honestly, I disagree with Nicki in that I believe no publicity is bad publicity IF you have a message you want to get out. Also, if you’re already seen as “bad,” there isn’t anything to lose, really. Even if the media outlet gets it wrong about you, you will likely now have more people coming to you, the actual source, to hear the facts you want to present.
” believing differently” would actually be an interesting conversation to have with the remaining Keith followers.
But that’s not the conversation the loyalists are trying to have.
The conversation the Keith die hard are having is about not believing reality and not believing facts and not believing empirical evidence and not believing their fellow Nxians who are telling them what happened to them in the cult.
But a conversation about “different beliefs” is valuable and would be interesting.
Unfortunately, the remaining cult followers don’t have the cojones to have THAT conversation.
There was indoctrination to believe that the age of consent for women should be lowered in the United States. The child molester appologists probably could get traction if they had the balls to come out and say that they believe 15 is old enough to consent to sex.
There are a lot of men who would love seeing the age of consent lowered. But the Keith groupies don’t have what it takes to actually honestly state their true beliefs.
And as a result, they resort to attacking people like Camilla and Nicole and calling them liars.
The Nxivm loyalists resort to impuning the Integrity of FBI agents with no actual proof of any malfeasance.
The cult remanants post stupid memes making one of the FBI agents into Pinocchio.
The cult remainders appeal to people’s worst base instincts, tribal politics and paranoia.
If someone from the cult would truly come clean about the “different beliefs” and wants to have a discussion and they have the braveness to back up those beliefs and say, ” hey, I know most everyone in American society sees it this way but I think the law should be changed to this instead” etc THOSE conversations would be interesting and maybe valuable.
But the current dialogue with the dead Enders isn’t one of those conversations.
“Different beliefs” doesn’t entitle you to different facts.
Instead of arguing that they see what the evidence is against Keith and they just really don’t think he did anything wrong because those are not beliefs that they uphold – the remaining Keith followers try to change reality to suit their agenda.
Not only is that not any way you’re ever going to change the world it’s not truly people that hold “different beliefs.”
In fact you could argue that the dead Enders hold the exact same beliefs as the majority of American society. Nikki says straight up that she would not support Keith if he did in fact take photographs of Cami when she was 15 and start a sexual relationship with her at that age. That’s not an alternative or different point of view as everyone else has including the law. That’s the same set of beliefs aemost meveryone else. Including the legal system.
This isn’t about Nicki holding “different beliefs” it’s about Nikki wanting the rest of the world to accept different facts and a different reality than the court and the general public can see themselves with their own eyes and ears.
It’s cult people who are trying to convince the rest of the world to believe in alternative reality.
There is a big difference between those two things.
Asking people to embrace a completely different reality than empirical evidence has shown and a court of law has proven is wildly different than asking people to accept a different set of beliefs.
We’re not talking about a situation where maybe say a Christian Scientist who is saying,” I have the right to refuse my child Medical Care.” Because if their BELIEFS.
That example is people with a different set of beliefs.
This is a cult group asking people to ignore what their true cult beliefs are and instead call everyone else liars.
The dead Enders want everyone to deny the reality that the rest of the world sees with their own eyes and perceives with their own mind. To throw out what was proven in court and live in the cult loyalists alternative universe.
I find it unexpected but I can’t disagree with the principles presented in your post.
This statement, “In many ways, Nicki represents the impending threat to social stability and democracy that currently confronts us. …” struck me as well. It’s just plain wrong. This is where I really wish we all studied history more. The more you know of history, especially US political history, the more you will confirm that the ‘impending threat to democracy’ has been there since we started and will continue to be as long as we are in existence. Nicki represents no such threat. She’s just a fringe thinker using a platform to voice her thoughts. Using one’s free speech right is not a threat. In fact, it strengthens our rights when we use them, even when we disagree.
Check this example out – the US Library of Congress has a really cool archive of old newspapers that can be searched for free online, running through the founding of the US to the 1960s from all over the US. I just searched the phrase “threat to democracy” and got over 1000 hits starting as far back as the 1840s and going all the way through to the end of the archive in the 1960s. The media has been scaring us with this alleged threat for literally centuries. First it was those slaves, then women getting a vote, then those commie bastards, then it was….Don’t fall for it, any of it.
Nailed it! Great comment Le’Gal and wonderful research.
As soon as the concept of democracy existed the concept of ‘the threat to democracy’ existed.
It’s interesting how unaware most people are that even all the recent stuff is the same old tired tropes that have been around for eons.
Those chains don’t yank themselves ya’ll!
The “sub-cultures” are the ones that rise up out of swamps to destroy an entire society. Like the Bolsheviks, NAZIS, and the early followers of Ayatollah Khomeini. Khomeini was basically running a Shia Cult before starting a revolution in Iran.
Comparing the Jewish persecution to NXIVM is disgusting.
Contrasting the Jews with the alt-right is heinous. They’ve not lead a rebellion in the last 1000 years.
Neither Jews nor Christians as group have tried to overthrow the US government.
In addition Jews and Christians haven’t black mailed women into sex with Kieth Raniere.
Your analogies are at best absurd.
It’s pitiful how much you keep sucking up to the NXIVM crew.
They’re as interested in you as they’re interested in stepping in dog shit.
When you step in dog poop, remember that the dog food industry is a $62.7 trillion (2021) global business. When you step in dog poop, you are most likely stepping on the digested remains of industrially produced dog food. Dog poop is what’s left over from the $62.7 trillion when it’s excreted by dogs. And it is 100% biodegradable. Don’t fret. Keep dogs, too, and support the dog food industry that hasn’t migrated out of the U.S. yet. Not only are food prices rising sharply, pet food prices are rising at the same rate. It is expected that many pet owners will no longer be able to afford their pets with the rising cost of living and will give them up.
Alonzo’s shithole home is so filled with garbage you need a shovel to get from room to room.
Sadly, Alonzo’s poor mom hasn’t been seen in sometime. It’s believed she left her bedroom, without a head lamp or compass and got lost searching for the front door.
A search party was sent out but was turned back by bodily fluids rainstorms – the upstairs toilet over flowed.
Living is an art. It’s not bookkeeping. It takes a lot of rehearsing for a troll to get to be himself. And I have to say from the bottom of my heart that I don’t like you. Neither does Alanzo.
I think it’s fascinating that my post inspired you to give the political reasoning that an existing government would use to go after “cults” and, hopefully, take them out before they became big enough to become a threat to the existing government’s power.
Not just getting rid of the Jews in Nazi Germany, but also getting rid of the incipient political threats ‘cults’ can pose to any government, such as the US government.
Do you think this political reasoning can be used to justify, say, a government planting evidence of child porn on a hard drive?
Mmmmh my name is Alanzo.