So now, Tabby made some replies to commenters in our story Erika Durance Didn’t Like Allison Mack. When Tabby refers to “Chlois,” she references a notion promulgated for a time that Allison’s character Chloe would be revealed as Lois Lane. Chloe + Lois = Chlois.
For context, Lois Lane is a character in DC Comics’ Superman. Lois was Clark Kent/Superman’s love interest. But Lois was missing from Smallville during its first few seasons. Conversely, there was no Chloe in DC Comics’ Superman.
Lana Lane, played by Kristin Kreuk, was Clark’s love interest in Smallville. But Chloe fans wanted Allison.
But dreams of Chlois died a thousand deaths when Erika Durance appeared as Lois Lane in season 4 and bosomed Allison right out of being Lois Lane. Allison was doomed to be Clark’s friend and never share the power of the throbbing heartthrob of Supermanly.
Lena wrote: I really dislike Erica Durance. Her third-rate version of Lois Lane will always be a drunken bimbo. The entire point of Durance’s interview is to somehow imply that Allison Mack was threatened by her, which is why they weren’t friends. It couldn’t possibly be because Durance tried to inflate her own role and importance to Smallville to a ridiculous extent.
In seasons 4 to 8, Durance was only in 12 episodes. In season 9, she was in 17 episodes. It was only in the last season, season 10, that she was put in all 22 episodes. But to read her interviews, she was the show’s star, and story lines were built around her. None of that was true. And the only credit I will give her is that she managed to avoid getting into a cult. Yeah?!
So now we will get to the comments. Where I don’t have a photo of the commenter, I will have to select one based on my impression of the commenter. If anyone does not like my selection, they can feel free to submit a pic.
If I recall correctly, Tabby was a moderator at Krytponsite back in the day. It was a Smallville fansite. She and the other mods were absolutely fanatical Allison/Chloe fans. They would delete or ban even mild criticism of Allison or her character. At the same time, they would engage in and encourage the vilest comments about the other females on the show. GBD (Girls By Design) was heavily promoted there as well. Not surprising, she got recruited into NXIVM. I wonder if the other fanatic mods did as well.
We didn’t. In fact, I was very against mods deleting or banning based on their agenda — which got me into conflicts with some of the volunteer mods who did take it a bit too far in threads like the “Chlois thread.”
Heck, one of my worst times running those forums was arguing with Tabby herself because I didn’t feel a “Chloe is Luke Skywalker” thread was offensive, and the opposite, I found it hilarious.
Also, Benji, I’m sorry if you had a bad time there. I’ve been to horribly run forums, and it was my hope that Krytponsite wouldn’t be that. I say this as someone who was banned from TWOP for daring to say something nice about Erica Durance.
Oh Craig I had no idea! I don’t even remember that, but I’m sorry it ranked up there as one of the worst. You didn’t deserve such silly arguments.
Benji Carver
Thanks for sharing, Tabby. Your comments are always welcome as far as I’m concerned.
Curiously, when you say you made some ‘pretty harsh commentary about Durance,” was that because you were instructed to do so, with specific instructions by Allison or others, to attack certain people? What kind of harsh commentary do you mean (if you are ok to share), and why against Erika?
I’m trying to understand the role those with authority would have and how they would go about specifically instructing subordinates that are otherwise good folks to do bad things. For example, John Tighe says he was routinely harassed, bullied, and intimidated at home, church, etc., by NXIVM henchmen. It appears you were instructed to bully others via an online forum (perhaps indirectly?). I believe you’ve mentioned you have taken counseling (which is great) to help with recovery. I wonder how others deal with it. Or I could also be completely off on all of this, apologies.
No, this was before I ever met Allison when I was a die-hard “Chloe is Lois” fan. All the fans, in general, were vitriolic at times, but there was a push by the “Chlois” “faction,” I guess, to hate on Durance. It’s much easier to talk shit about people when you don’t know them personally. Once I started meeting everyone, I became humbled. I stopped posting online in general, except for a few spoilers here and there of episodes I’d seen filmed or edited.
As far as the other information you are asking for:
Let me put my graduate hat on and get a little academic here. There are a lot of scholarly articles and blogs posted by cult experts on the topic of how authority was distributed amongst NXIVM. They are fairly accurate in my own experience. The question of how to get otherwise good folks to do bad things has been formally experimented on and there is a lot of information regarding it on such experiments like the Standford Prison Experiment and the Milgram Experiment.
In NXIVM, they used a number of different methods, depending on which ones their own subject responded to. They had a little cognitive restructuring right off the bat. Some people didn’t respond well to that, so they’d use social shaming in the class. If that still didn’t work, they’d use the person as an example. If that didn’t work, they’d force an EM for that person. If the EM didn’t work, they’d force classes on that person by telling them they couldn’t move forward until the inner deficiency was resolved, which resets the cycle. And since most people there dedicated their lives to NXIVM, thus losing “outside” friends and family, they’d have everything to lose if they chose not to comply.
They had a ton of other methods available until there was nothing left for the person to fight against.
This is how coercion works. One method of coercion is to set people up with impossible “choices,” and then if they had destructive effects from either of the choices, oh well… they made the choice, right? Wrong, though. When you tell someone, “You have two choices: red shirt or blue shirt. If you pick the blue shirt then you’ll be punished. It’s your choice.” That’s coercive control… and not a choice at all. Our primal instincts are to stay alive and safe. We are programmed to stay alive and safe, so we will usually pick the option that doesn’t threaten that safety. And when it’s artificially injected, it’s no longer a choice or option.
Hope this helped.
Excellent info, very thankful for your insight.
Hi Tabby. Thank you for that and very graciously put.
I remember that bitter fan feud between the pro-Chloe and pro-Lois set. Who is the “real” Lois? It’s all rather hilarious in retrospect. (Not that it wasn’t hilarious back then.)
Originally Lana was the ‘enemy.’ But that was before Durance… The presence of Durance made the Chloisers really out of control because it challenged the “Chloe is Lois” theory. It’s really weird, looking back. Really weird. And before then, I studied the made-up Tolkein Elvish language Sindarin… and that’s not even as weird to me as my Chlois days.
Thanks for your first-person observation, Tabby. Hope you’re well, girl. You should write an Allison book. About working with her. The whole shebang. If ya do, I will read it. Think your whole story and perspective would be fascinating.
Actually… It should be a “Tabby book”. I want to hear about you. Heard enough about her. It would make a good movie too!
Thanks for the suggestion. It’s crossed my mind a time or two. Maybe in a few years, when I can help more victims of coercive control and help people find their happy endings after cult survival through The Freedom Train Project Incorporated.
Freedom Train is my 501(c)(3) that I created to help victims of cults leave and thrive. Right now I’m operating with an all-volunteer staff, myself included, and MOST of my professional focus is on that or on my doctoral program in forensic psychology, public policy, and law. But maybe once I’ve got some funding and can help a larger number of people (my first major milestone is 2k per year), then my story will have a way to conclude. Right now, it’s still ongoing, chapters being written as we go.
I’m one more reader thanking you for your input. And good luck with your Project…maybe Frank can set up a GoFundMe site for you.
Tabby, thanks for the gracious reply. We are all human (me included). I am happy you were able to escape from the clutches of NXIVM. Be well
Anonymous
Can you state with absolute certainty that Erica Durance didn’t even take a single NXIVM course?
Why was Erica Durance following NXIVM cultist Mark Vicente on her twitter account?
Did Kristin Kreuk not try and recruit Erica Durance too seeing as she spent her Smallville years in NXIVM?
Why was Erica Durance talking about the NXIVM cult at a baby shower unless there were other NXIVM people present?
Kristin Kreuk was coaching in NXIVM until at least 2013 and was still a member with a coach up until at least 2016 and Kreuk and Durance are friends.
How could I know any of that? I don’t know motivations, or even if these are facts. Nor do I care who people are following on social media. Only up until a few months ago I was following Clyne, but that didn’t mean that we were friends. Also, twitter makes it incredibly hard to clean out your list, and I don’t even know if that’s why she was still following anyone you feel she shouldn’t be following. I’d still be following Vicente myself if he wasn’t the one to unfriend me first… because I don’t care to take the time to clean out social media. They make it too annoyingly hard to do that. And still, I have no idea about any of your questions.
Except the baby shower was just a normal baby shower, with someone who was in ethos, but worked on Smallville so of course all of her friends were invited. It was a mixed group as are MOST baby showers.
Former Smallville fan and Fandom participant here. Feeling the heat. Lana, Lois and Chloe fans were all horrible to each other. I don’t like revisionist history from some here.
I can no longer watch the show or anything with Allison.
I will say, the killed Jimmy and made his brother the real Jimmy. The fueled the flames and know it.
Cult numbskull Tabby wrote:
“Girlsbydesign.com (GBD) is the first step for Kristin Kreuk and Kendra Voth towards creating a place where teen girls can come together to explore, express, create and realize their potential together.” To super simplify it, it was a hybrid version of Girl Scouts.
This proves that you can take the girl out of the cult, but you can’t take the cult out of the girl.
To translate the above nonsense into plain English: Kreuk and Voth started a group designed to recruit dumb teenage girls into a cult where they’d be made available to rape by Keith “Vantard” Raniere.
Fortunately those two are even less talented at rape recruitment than they are at TV “artistry.”
Viva Executive Success®!!!!!
🐵🕺👯♀️🤡
“GBD was not related to NXIVM in any way to my knowledge, as has been previously stated by Kendra and Kristin”
Sultan used to repeat this line too.
“Sultan used to repeat this line too.”
He probably didn’t repeat it as much as he just relayed what the women said about it. But you’re welcome to believe it was a teen girl honey pot operation for Raniere if that toots your horn.
It is kind of “funny” (ironic?) that in the fourteen or fifteen years of time since Kendra Voth founded it with Kristin, and almost ten since its shutdown in 2013 (?) I believe, Kendra wound up having two sons, while Kristin still remains childless.
Are you aware that some women actually choose not to have children or even get married? Any woman who does not want to care for a child for 18 years of more, whether in a “stable” marriage or not, should be applauded for standing up to pressure from family, friends or anonymous critics.
Ya think? Do you know that people can choose to do almost anything, even dumb shit? Like join a cult led by a conman shrouded in controversy while believing he’s a renunciate as he lives with three women, and/or trust the word of the untrustworthy.
Whether they should be applauded for it,
“Well…that’s just your opinion man.”
My opinion is, it would’ve been “funny” if before those women got a chance to choose not to, they had mothers who just chose not to.
Besides, I just found it “funny” that two women who decided to start something that was supposed to help support teen girls and help them “grow” or whatever, ended up not having any teen girls of their own.
I would much rather take Durance for a ride than Mack. Allison looks far too manish to be appealing. Raneire really took a fancy to square-jawed tom-boy types.
Makes me wonder what all really went on in those Society of Protector workshops. Did Vincente and the other members of the High Council or whatever they called themselves have to wear wigs and heels during Raniere’s lectures? Did they see the blue light?
— what all really went on in those Society of Protector workshops —
Yes, Frank, find out and tell us!
Tabby, can you shed some light on who controlled Girls By Design and for what purpose?
I will answer this more in a future publication, but the basic answer is Kristin and Kendra controlled it, and only them. It was not related to NXIVM in any way to my knowledge, as has been previously stated by Kendra and Kristin in a release back in 2008/2009.
They relied on professional psychologists for input on their programs. The purpose is exactly as stated in it’s mission statement “Girlsbydesign.com (GBD) is the first step for Kristin Kreuk and Kendra Voth towards creating a place where teen girls can come together to explore, express, create and realize their potential together.” To super simplify it, it was a hybrid version of Girl Scouts.
Thanks for replying, Tabby. I look forward to your future input. because there has been many comments about GBD’s content seeming like Nxivm’s or even Keith’s philosophy. Again, thanks.
First, the picture chosen for me makes me smile :):)
And second, Erica Durance and Kristin Kreuk’s online fans were just as nasty and mean as the most rabid Allison Mack fan.
The site TWOP would have fans aggressively attacking each other over many a spoiler. And yes, I am not a fan of Smallville or the rather lackluster performance of the female leads. Durance’s version of Lois was comic relief in seasons 4 to 8 who happily worked for a tabloid while being previously employed as a barista then campaign manager?
But suddenly in Season 9 and 10 she’s a super reporter who always wanted to report the truth and were supposed to take her seriously? We’re supposed to pretend the previous seasons never happened? Sorry. not going to work, especially when we had Chloe who was a hard-working reporter since the first season–that’s why Chlois was so popular a theory.
You’re not a Smallville fan but you know exactly what went on between fans on various fan sites and on the show itself.
Sure. Riiiiight.
Oh I totally watched the show but it was mostly hate watching, as in I watched, and then made fun of it :):)
People who hate watch a show have psychological issues. And of course, people who hate watch a show are going to judge everything absurd about the show, from the scripts to the acting, so I’d take ANYTHING they say about it with a grain of salt. Anything overpowered by the emotion of hate loses objectivity.
You noticed that too, huh? I think Lena must be one of those nasty pro-Allison mods I mentioned. She’s still bitter after all these years. Sad.
Before all of the cult/slave/master insanity I was pro-Allison in that I thought she was a good actress with a bright future in acting and then the truth came out and I realized how troubled she is, so no, I’m not pro-Allison and I was never a mod. Nice try at stereotyping though 🙂
And why is Durance’s name spelled wrong on the titles of both the articles about her? It’s “Erica” not “Erika.”
Thanks for the correction on Erica [not Erika].
“ And second, Erica Durance and Kristin Kreuk’s online fans were just as nasty and mean as the most rabid Allison Mack fan.”
Well that’s a helluva positive endorsement!
“I am not a fan of Smallville…”
And yet you can tell us exactly how many episodes Durance appeared in in season whatever, and list all the jobs her character had, in sequence. Hmmmm…
I was a fan of Smallville, but even I can’t remember any of that shit.
I do remember Pops Kent rolling pickup trucks. The stunt department loved rolling pickups on dirt roads. It seems like every episode the Kent truck was a different color. Oh, and John Schneider played Pops Kent. Dukes of Hazard John Schneider. He was in two shows that were objectively horrible, but great fun to watch.
Schneider’s now a right wing nutjob on YouTube and he’s as entertaining as ever.
Hate watching is definitely a thing and that’s how I endured Smallville for 10 seasons 🙂 I can say that I am enjoying Superman and Lois on the CW which is a far superior show with much better versions of Clark, Lois and Lana played by talented actors.
And just because someone thinks an actress is sweet and shy does not make the actress immune to criticism.
Frank Parlato
May 26, 2022 at 12:37 pm
Pardon me, but exactly what did you find so humorous, sir?
With all of the problems that America is facing today we have people who are obsessed with a snotty character (Chloe) played by an ignorant, snobby, self-centered actress named Allison Pimp Mack.
If you need a new Chloe Sullivan just dig up Noel Neill.
I understand that she is available.
Up to 67% of American families are living from paycheck to paycheck.
That is a rise from the 40% who were struggling in 2015.
What is wrong with so many Americans that they are consumed by trivia?
I understand that the NXIVM story is fascinating because it holds up a mirror to America’s inner ugliness and self-absorption.
But at the end of the day America is mired in trivia revolving around silly actors and actresses.
To paraphrase Bill Maher, ” America has become a silly country and history is not kind to silly countries.”
How else can one explain a country where judges claim they do not know how to define the word “woman” or voters who elect a President named Joe Biden who is staggering and stumbling into senility?
Mr. Shadow-
I’m sure America will be back on top as soon as we all start listening to you.
“ or voters who elect a President named Joe Biden who is staggering and stumbling into senility”. Shadow is making progress! He just said voters elected Biden!
The character Allison Mack played on Smallville, Chloe, was pretty much the same character Mack played in previous roles. She was perky and bright and likable but always somehow eclipsed by a prettier, more popular girl. Mack was quite good at this kind of role and naturally attracted lots of sympathy.
So Smallville Chloe would wear lumpy sweaters and clumsy shoes and the boy she liked, Clark Kent, only had eyes for the doll-like perfection that was petite, glowing Lana (Kreuk) and of course the fans were all like, “I hate that bitch.”
These fans fantasized that Chloe, who was a budding journalist and ran the high school newspaper(!), would turn out to be Lois Lane. Who, of course, is the love of Superman’s life in DC Comics “canon”.
That would show that bitch Lana Lang! (Did I mention we all hate her?)
Then round about season 4-5, who shows up in the Kent cornfield but Lois Lane (Erica Durance) WTF!!! This came as a terrible shock to the Chloe-Is-Lois fans. They felt betrayed. They were pissed off.
To make matters worse, Lois (Durance) was “tall, thin, big tits, your basic nightmare” (“When Harry Met Sally” quote). She made Chloe look like a lump of cheese.
The Chloe fans, the Chlois supporters, all hated the bitch. Just like present day commenter Lena, they referred to her as a “drunken bimbo”.
This little drama all played out on the discussion boards Television Without Pity (TWoP) and Kryptonsite. This was still fairly early in the Internet and social media wasn’t yet a thing. And Christ on a bike was it vitriolic!
There was an episode where Lana, who was horsey and entitled just like Clare Bronfman, got trampled by her panicking horse. Broke her leg. From then on the horse was fondly referred to on the boards as “Stompy”.
It was all pretty funny. Mostly. Some of it got kinda stalker-ish and scary. Even to the point of violent threats against the actors and producers. Some of which were let stand by the moderators, who as the above article makes clear, were by no means neutral.
Ah, those were the good old days…
You got it. My sense at the time was a lot of the more rabid Chloe fans were fat or otherwise unattractive girls that rooted for the plain girl to land the hot guy over the girls with more conventional Hollywood looks.
WTF did I just read?!?!? OMG!!!!!!
ROLMFAO!!!!!
Lordy, Lordy, I think I’m gonna die of laughter!!!!
Thanks for sharing this Frank!!!!!
I’ll be laughing all day.
****
It’s nice to know Sultan has peers.
Pardon me, but exactly what did you find so humorous, sir?
…….Currently still laughing. Reply later.
Still laughing…….
“Some were so delusional that they thought Mack’s character would be revealed as Lois Lane.”
(Benji Carver)
Oh, someone is delusional…..
***
Frank,
Frankly, my dear friend, I wouldn’t know where to begin.
You’re right, Nice Guy.
This is simply hilarious. I rarely actually read the “articles” here, but this one is hilarious. Comedy Quadruple Platinum. 💿💿💿💿
Just goes to show that you can take the girls out of middle school, but you can’t take the middle school out of the girls.
I love a good cat fight!
😾💥🥊😾
Sniveling-
I always enjoy reading your comments, especially when they address me.
Well… someone has to keep it real, right?
What happened to our anti-anti-cult buddy? Did we scare him off? Or did he have a Ring Dings® related medical emergency?
get a room
I was going to move into Nice Guy’s spare bedroom, but his wife shut that down because she said my sniveling would ruin the carpet.
How could I argue with that?
😘
they ARE in the same room as they’re the same witless person.
Is Durances branding video still available?