By Joe M.
In response to Raniere Speaks – Ten Post-Conviction Phone Calls From Prison Released, Keith is all over the place.
He does make a great point:
Raniere: “I am the exact candidate for prejudice because I’m white and one of the problems I have is because I’m not black. If I were black or if I were of color, or one of other things where people have tremendous prejudice, then there would be all sorts of rallying and support because in this country right now it is sad”
But then Keith immediately compares himself to Hitler being convicted of robbery, and then says Hitler should set free if not found guilty of robbery, (and not be convicted of the mass genocide of 6 million people and invasion of multiple continents apparently).
Then Keith says:
Raniere: “I am white, I am male, I am educated and if I weren’t those things, I would probably be in a far worse position. I might be facing the death sentence… If I were African-American I might be not only facing the death sentence but with no media coverage… no one would ever hear of me. I’d be completely swept under the rug. I have the opposite advantage, I have this incredible media coverage but I’m in relatively a good place compared to many others…”
Then Keith says:
Raniere: “So my case, as crazy as it sounds,… people have to understand, I’m just the tip of the iceberg. There are people that are so far worse off than I am. There are people on death row, apparently hours before being executed that are completely innocent…”
This is typical NXIVM / ESP programming… talk in circles and just keep talking.
Truthfully, from what I read, Keith is guilty and deserves prison and penalties and a way to prevent him from continuing MLM and cults in multiple different forms, like when he lost Consumers’ Buyline and still opened up an MLM immediately after (ESP originally, which morphed into NXIVM).
Keith (et al) are all evil, horrible, disgusting people, but people like Michelle Myers Salzman and her husband get nothing,
Sara Bronfman gets nothing.
Bookkeeper gets nothing
Branding doctor gets nothing.
Lauren Salzman only gets five years probation.
Nancy Loshin Salzman (who was the brains and president of the entire operation) only gets 3.5 years.
Nancy’s parents who supported the cult get nothing.
Allison only gets three years.
Nicki Clyne got nothing.
Kim Constable gets nothing.
Clare Bronfman gets seven years. Nancy’s family who muled and hid the money for her don’t even get investigated.
Scores of other high level operatives escape prosecution and get nothing, and more NXIVM spin-offs have started under different company names and industries and continue NXIVM… .
And Keith gets 120 years?
Look, Keith deserves the 120 years in prison. He’s scum. But the others deserve more and some even deserve something! At the very least – Nancy, Lauren, Michelle, and Allison deserve a ton more than they were handed. Keith might have been the visionary thinker in the beginning in the 90’s, but those four ladies took his ideas to a completely different level and carried what he wanted to a much crazier operation.
I truly believe even Keith probably didn’t expect things to go as crazy as they did, but he jump started four other crazy women, and look what they did!
Even Keith couldn’t stop the train he started after these women got going. I think in the end he ended up not even running NXIVM and he was just sitting back enjoying the free girls and attention at his disposal. The women who ran NXIVM are the real criminals in the end.
Places like the Sculpted Vegan and Symmetry Financial Group already formed and people like Dr. Roberts are already publicizing they are doing life coaching again!!! What Keith and Nancy did wrong is just not make it a non-profit religious organization. Organizations like Scientology, Landmark Forum, Branch Davidians, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons…. all get away without paying people and having multiple wives and controlling everyone’s every move.
But Keith and Nancy couldn’t… They were too greedy….too narcissistic. If they just paid taxes, paid employees, and didn’t run the sex part of their cult, they would have been fine. The rest of their brainwashing manipulation of people and ripping them off and doing MLM by itself and running “life coaches” all by itself wasn’t illegal.
Nancy really wasn’t that good. She’s an old, ugly hack of a woman who would never have made it in the real world, nor any of the other “coaches”. Losers in life who will continue MLM coaching till the end of time.
And life/professional coaching itself is still legal in the United States. Until the government publicly recognizes that “coaching” is the EXACT same thing as psychotherapy, except done for people who NEVER got a licensed mental or behavioral health degree.
NXIVM will live on. Why go to four to 8 years of college to become a licensed social worker, psychologist or psychiatrist? All you need to do is be a life coach. You do the same thing, charge twice what a licensed person would and you don’t even need medical malpractice insurance. Who in their right mind would ever go into an mental or behavioral program in a college? Just graduate 8th grade, dress like a slut, smile, talk a lot about yourself, make people feel like crap about themselves, and then send them a $5,000 bill. Sounds much more interesting.
The real travesty is all the politicians and law enforcement related people that protected NXIVM and it’s people the entire time and continue to protect various people and the fact that these people aren’t being exposed or held accountable. That’s the real problem.
Nxivm will continue in different names because the same people that allowed NXIVM to continue for so long knowing how bad it was, will continue spin-offs and continuations of these types of cults through different people and organizations. So many politicians, wealthy entertainment folks, law enforcement (front line and back office), and wealthy business people are tied into these types of (sex) cults – that Keith is only a blip on the radar on how bad it really is out there.
Nothing has changed. The only thing is all the people who benefit from (sex) cults have hidden under a rock for a few months and have already moved on to the next sex cult. Until the people who FREQUENT sex cults are brought down, there will always be a leader to step up and create an environment for this to continue to happen.
Groups like this take on lives of their own among a certain number of particularly devoted followers. There are curious phenomenon at work, like the escalation of commitment and sunk costs fallacies or cognitive biases that, as with problem gambling, leave people unable to recognize their mistakes and even continuing to double down on them, rather than than learn from and correct them.
Last I knew there were still a couple of identified Manson Family followers who even had a website, focusing on their gurus’ supposed environmental philosophy — note the classic shift to ignoring abuses and crimes, and instead refocusing on claimed ideas and missions. I’ve said for a while now, Nikki Clyne may be NXIVM’s counter part to “Squeaky” Frommo – hopefully without the violent segue.
Speaking of missions, there’s a thoughtful piece this weekend by a former scientologist over at Mike Rinder’s blog, about how the common imperative to “save the world” gets twisted in high control groups or cults:
Alonzo’s important marketing job at Scientology was stuffing and licking envelopes!
You need to take a lesson from Nice Guy on how to really insult a guy.
“Even Keith couldn’t stop the train he started after these women got going. I think in the end he ended up not even running NXIVM and he was just sitting back enjoying the free girls and attention at his disposal. The women who ran NXIVM are the real criminals in the end.”
Brand designer, web developer, singer, personal coach, technologist, cyclist
Farouk Rojas still seems to work as a personal trainer and with NXIVM techniques. Or his subtitle [Brand designer, web developer, singer, personal coach, technologist, cyclist] is outdated. He is CTO at Prorus Capital.
CTO @ Prorsus Capital
Digital Innovation, Digital Marketing Strategy Consultant @ tvcenlínea.com
Web Development / UX / UI Consultant @ Etholutions, Inc
Coach @ Executive Success Programs
CTO @ Prorsus Capital
Founder @ Oneseven Communications
Marketing Director @ Mileno Diario
Digital Innovation, Digital Marketing Strategy
New Business Development
How do we scour the net for everyone who has ESP on their resumes and make a list as a Frank Report post?
This is from his LinkedIn:
Experience Design Consultant / Fractional CTO
That’s his latest job
Farouk Rojas is the man I was talking about….
Men who dress slutty are the WORST.
One time I attended a seminar and thought the same thing about these people that try to give advice in “seminars”- why go to college for psychology when you can just go to a few cult seminars, learn how to talk in circles, and pretend that you are a life coach? Like what even makes you qualified and who are you? Separately, I agree that Keith is taking all the blame for the politicians, millionaires, celebrities, etc. who are sex trafficking pedophile pigs and are still living scotch free. It’s sad and even though Keith is the devil, I still feel kind of sorry for the guy. The politicians, celebrities, etc. that jump from sex cult to sex cult and Nancy, Allison, Lauren and a ton more should be served with a minimum of 25 years. At least “the mean girls of NXIVM” didn’t run away and hide like the politicians, etc. The sad thing is people get life sentences for mistakes like their brakes failing and these NXIVM girls get 3 years for raping and manipulating people and some people get 0 years. Pathetic.
— If I were African-American I might be not only facing the death sentence but with no media coverage… no one would ever hear of me. I’d be completely swept under the rug.
I guess this clown has never heard of R. Kelly.
R Kelly has been doing fucked up shit to women for decades, including marrying Aaliyah when she was 15 years old. He is a celebrity and hasn’t gotten half the punishment he deserves from abusing a ton of women. So, yes everyone has heard of R Kelly and he’s not getting a million years in jail because of his celebrity status. Any other black man that did what R Kelly did would be sentenced to death. He’s another one that should rot in hell.
R Kelly was hugely famous before his trial, so no comparison.
Keith is not a nobody either. He’s been referenced in print MANY times. Yes, he’s not as famous as R. Kelly, but that was never the point.
Keith is not your average white man either, so to pull the “race card” of the alleged innocent, unknown black man on death row who has little to no means to defend himself in order to paint some broad stroke of injustice and bind such a predicament to himself is pathetic.
Keith is CLOSER to R. Kelly in terms of fame, his behavior, and the financial means he has and/or received than some poor, average, no-name black man. The latter has absolutely NO relevance to his case.
That is the point.