India Oxenberg has an article in People Magazine, entitled What I Wish I Knew About Grooming: India Oxenberg Reflects on Her Experience in Nxivm
“I trusted them; these people seemed like they had it all together. They were intelligent, successful, and charismatic. These were all the things I wanted for myself. Little did I know, at the time, that this façade was one of many consumer-front products and companies used to lure, target, and recruit new members….
“I was groomed for the leader of Nxivm [Keith Raniere] through his higher-ranking members and the education that they taught. It wasn’t until I entered into the higher controlled group that he actually had sexual access to me because of the blackmail and the grooming done by Allison Mack. It made me an easier target for that kind of abuse because he knew I wouldn’t and couldn’t tell anyone anything.
“Two of those years were spent in an even higher controlled inner circle [DOS] within the organization that maintained secrecy with the use of blackmail, extortion, and destabilization of its victims/recruits to the point where we were incapable of making our own sound decisions…
“I hope that my story serves as an example of how anyone, especially those in times of transition, can be vulnerable to coercion and manipulation.”
- Learn to recognize “love bombing”
- Beware of attempts to isolate you
- Watch for coercive behaviors
- 4. Listen to your intuition
- It’s not your fault
- Find your source of strength
- Use your voice if you’re ready
***
Town and Country Magazine writer has ranked Sarah Edmondson’s book Scarred among the top 10 best fiction and non-fiction books on cults.
Granted it is merely a personal list, it is revealing that Edmondson’s book is ranked alongside such classics as Helter Skelter
***
Nancy Salzman is in the runup to her sentencing [September 8th]. She has been excoriated in these pages and by the prosecution. There are I believe at least 9 victim letters and several women are expected to speak at her sentencing.
It will not be pretty. And she is likely to get some prison time. Perhaps five years or more.
She has had another blow. Her father, Milton Loshin, died on August 15th. Loshin was married to Lorraine and they had two daughters, Nancy and Carole Koss. Steven Kass is Carole’s husband and he is CFO of Tofutti, an ice cream company.
There is very sparse info about Milton, but since Nancy is in her mid-60s, Milton evidently was an elderly man.
Clare Sentence Appeal
Clare Bronfman will be filing an additional brief regarding the appeal of her sentence of 81 months, arguing that hers was excessive when compared to Allison Mack, who got 36 months, and Lauren Salzman, who got probation. Both women pleaded guilty to more serious charges than Clare did. Both women got significant downward departures from the sentencing guidelines while Bronfman got triple the upper guidelines of 27 months, largely because she continues to support Raniere while both Salzman and Mack denounced him.
The litmus test, she will possibly argue, is not the crime committed, or the reasonable sentence for those crimes, but whether or not one denounces Raniere or supports him.
An appeal of a sentence is, if successful, sent back to the original sentencing judge, who then can shorten the sentence or not as he sees fit.
Bronfman’s attorneys are Ron Sullivan and Duncan Levin.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Some Q and A from Nutjob
Nutjob is a man who knew the old-timers of NXIVM: Nancy, Keith and even Toni Natalie back in the 1990s.
He asks the following questions and I answer them to the best of my ability.
- Will John Tighe ever make another FR appearance?
- Does Tighe have thoughts on the Rule 33 motion?
- An update on The Lost Women of NXIVM
- Details on when Claviger’s computer was hacked
- What do Kristin Keeffe and Karen Unterreiner think of Nancy Salzman?
- What do they think her punishment should be?
- What was it like when Nice Guy went to butt camp?
- What base did Frank make it to with Nancy?
- Was there a morning omelet?
- Does Ronnie still send money to Ghana?
- Why does Malcolm Butler bully Ice-Nine?
- When Frank stayed at Clare’s farm, did he help with chores?
- If yes, which ones?
- If no, what kind of a houseguest is he???
To answer your questions,
Will John Tighe ever make another FR appearance?
I believe Tighe will make an appearance shortly. Having been imprisoned unjustly for five years and just emerging, I think he is entitled to some rest and normalcy before he reemerges publicly.
Does Tighe have thoughts on the Rule 33 motion?
If he does, I have not spoken to him about it.
An update on The Lost Women of NXIVM
The Lost Women of NXIVM was a commercial and critical success and I want to get around to making Part 2. Right now I am filming for two other productions and have been extremely busy. I will have more to say about this later.
Details on when Claviger’s computer was hacked
I do not believe that Claviger’s computer was hacked.
What do Kristin Keeffe and Karen Unterreiner think of Nancy Salzman?
What do they think her punishment should be?
That’s a good question. They were good friends with her. Kristin warned Nancy to get out of NXIVM back in 2014 or she would wind up in prison. Nancy chose to ignore the warning and you see the result. I think both women have a soft spot for Nancy and probably do not wish to see her imprisoned.
What was it like when Nice Guy went to butt camp?
My understanding is he enjoyed it immensely.
What base did Frank make it to with Nancy?
We never got further than a touch on the hand.
Was there a morning omelet?
There was no morning omelet, but there was a vegetarian dinner at her house and a vegetarian dinner at a restaurant.
Does Ronnie still send money to Ghana?
Yes, Ronnie sold his house and moved into a tiny apartment because he sent something like $50,000 to men in Ghana pretending to be the woman pictured above. I tried to stop him from sending the money, and he rebelled. He actually secretly sold his house so I would not find out about it and try to stop him from giving the bulk of the proceeds to the criminals in Ghana.
Why does Malcolm Butler bully Ice-Nine?
I do not know what Malcolm Butler is doing but I believe that Ice Nine is more than capable of taking care of himself.
When Frank stayed at Clare’s farm, did he help with chores?
Neither Clare nor I did any chores. Clare was kind enough to provide me with several assistants who handled all manner of chores. It was enough of a chore just to manage and advise Clare and the others of NXIVM.
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
Please leave a comment: Your opinion is important to us!
And advice number 8. If someone asks you to find yourself some slaves to subjugate. Don’t.
So many people involved are so very guilty. They might have been abused but then they turned around and did it to other people. In so many ways that makes them worse than their abusers. I also refuse to believe that the government needed to pad their case with fake evidence. Fly Camilla in and have her say yep those are pics of me and Raniere took them. 30 some pictures is a lot. These people literally recorded everything. Pretty sure they told on themselves. Repeatedly.
Great questions from nut job . Did nut job meet Pam too ? What was his impression of her ?
I knew Pam pretty well. i thought she was awesome. Very nice. Kinda funny and always seemed ready and willing to help. Somebody warned me once that everything I said to Pam, was relayed by her to Keith. That was good advice and I used it.
That’s really interesting, Nutjob.
Do you think Pam was poisoned?
Her death seems badly handled, strange & sort of shrouded in secrecy. At best.
Thoughts? If you’re willing. No problem if not.
Thanks!
I absolutely do. But I don’t have anything new or of much value to add to the discussion.
Thank you so much for responding, Nutjob!
[…] India Oxenberg has a long article in People that reveals hardly anything. How […]
Elizabeth Holmes is being tried for multi-billion dollar business fraud in her blood testing company Theranos. Her likely defense sounds a lot like NXIVM:
“Ms. Holmes plans to introduce evidence that her business partner/boyfriend verbally disparaged her and withdrew ‘affection if she displeased him’; controlled what she ate, how she dressed, how much money she could spend, who she could interact with — essentially dominating her and erasing her capacity to make decisions. She alleges that he monitored her calls, texts and email messages, that he threw “hard, sharp objects” at her, and that he restricted her sleep and monitored her movements, among other charges. Holmes was evaluated by a psychologist who specializes in violence against women and interpersonal violence, leading to speculation that her attorneys could mount a so-called “mental defect” defense.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/08/28/elizabeth-holmes-trial-unsealed-documents/
Wow, that is so interesting! Thanks for sharing.
This woman took the whole girl boss story to a new height and then let us all down. Is she now using the battered woman story for compassion?
I love this joke etsy tshirts: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1024082088/elizabeth-holmes-is-my-girlboss-unisex-t
haha
Another hilarious Holmes swag: https://www.etsy.com/listing/993262578/i-wish-elizabeth-holmes-had-an-mlm
haha. We need some for ketih <3
I didn’t know such Holmes junk existed…funny
Did not think it was possible to dislike Nicki Clyne more or to respect Nicki Clyne less…
I stand corrected.
Nicki Clyne reveals on a podcast that she had her mother go into her mother’s retirement fund to hire Nicki an attorney.
I literally would die before asking either parent to do such a thing. Nicki was in her 30s. She’s 39 now. How is she going to pay her mom back? From her Locals account?
And when I say “literally die” – I mean, not even for an operation to save my life would I do that to a parent. Of course, they would give it to me. But NEVER would I ask. Never.
And that was not Nicki’s only option. She could have gotten a public defender. Like every other broke-ass MF’er.
Dear God. How is asking mommy to pay for your lawyer because you F×cked up and were in a criminal sex cult – being a grown-up with agency?!
Talk about child-like women. Nicki Clyne, you take the grand prize.
Grow up!
I had the same thoughts when I heard that. Also why wasn’t Clare paying for her defense? I wonder if her mom wanted her to have an attorney that was impartial to protect her. But I agree that using her mom’s retirement money hardly says adult woman who takes care of herself.
How do you even end up in that position? At that age? Get a loan. A credit card. A job. Have some savings? Anything.
Nicki wants people to feel sorry for her because she blew her money, career, at least a decade of her life to play “We’re gonna save the world with close-up pee-pee photos, a secret dungeon, and blackmail” in Albany. As a full-time “lifetime commitment” to a cult leader slave.
In that same interview, Nicki acts like she moved to Brooklyn to try and get work. In a cafe. Cause, you know, ya can’t do that just anywhere.
Nicki neglects to mention the whole die-hard branded slave crew were actually relocated to be near their imperial wizard leader, the World’s smartest child pornographer who shoots magic blue light sperm on their faces.
And to dirty dance in front of his jail cell.
That wasn’t disclosed. It never is disclosed
Thanks for the retirement money, Mom!
Yes. Mom, I could move in with you. Or find someplace cheaper than Brooklyn to live and work full time to repay you. But then I couldn’t flash my pussy at Keith and the other prisoners in MDC.
Nicki is all “boo-boo. How did people ever find me in NY?” Uh, cause you made a f×cking spectacle of yourself? “I wore a baseball bat to hide.”. But then you posted yourself ALL over social media dancing, etc! Sorta like when you revealed Keith was in Mexico. Ever learn, girl?
Who buys Nicki’s bull sh×t? If you want to get a job and be low-key, it’s totally possible.
Nicki, you made those choices to constantly post your location, dance, give interviews.
You are not a victim.
LMAO. Now Nicki is tweet-quoting some random blogger’s article about her gaslighting and how it’s isolating being the only one standing up for truth!!
Seeking validation from some groupie random strangers to feed her narcissistic cause of supporting a sextorting grifter.
That woman is either completely delusional or such an unabashed liar.
Why does it bother you so much, Sultan?
Is Nicki Clyne the reason Kristin Kreuk does not envelope your gland with her fish pocket?
Why are you so obsessed with Sultan? Do his thoughts make you clit hard? Are you anxiously awaiting every tweet because you have to rub one out every time he tweets something?
Is Sultan the reason Kristin Kreuk didn’t have her body sullied and career ruined by your “precious” huckster VanGrifter?
Stop pretending to be someone else, Ahmet. You are easy to identify. You seem to have shifted your obsession to Nicki Clyne. Do your family know you are unwell?
“Is Sultan the reason Kristin Kreuk didn’t have her body sullied”.
You have had zero influence on what goes in and out of Kristin Kook’s coin purse, Spanky.
“and career ruined by your “precious” huckster VanGrifter”?
The lazy media are the reason Krooked and others have not been canceled for poor behaviour. And it seems VanSpank is “precious” to you. He got a ton of pussy, whereas the only vagina you ever touched was yo’ mama’s when you fell out of it, half a century ago!
When you tweet twat, next time don’t make your timings so close to when you comment here.
Can’t we all get along?
Then in the same podcast, Clyne said her mother needs to accept her choices because she’s not changing. So basically, “Give me all of your retirement money and shut the fuck up and stay outta my business.” Worse than a teenager!! Disgraceful.
Very good point. Nicki also lied about the silliest things. She tried to argue that Keith was not in a leadership position. Why?!
There is so much detailed evidence to the contrary. From bowing to “vanguard’s photo, v-week, the nude front line slaves sitting on the floor at Keith’s rodent feet while his majesty sat in a chair fully clothed, the title “grand master”, everyone vying for Keith’s time at midnight volleyball, the lectures Keith gave and they all sat rapt…
Keith himself stated in court at the end of the trial that he was, “the leader of the community”.
Nicki is a prolific liar. Both blatantly and by omission.
“It’s not your fault” – India Oxenberg
This is exactly the message that India’s deprogrammer, Rachel Bernstein, gave her during their deprogramming session in “Seduced”.
It’s not your fault. It’s the cult leader’s fault.
Do you ever have anything nice to say?
Frank, I am so glad you republished that Love Triangle pic with you, keith, and nancy. Just so fucking hilarious I love it ROFLMFAO
….Meanwhile, somewhere in the LA suburbs, Bangkok is enjoying what’s left of his summer vacation aBrOad.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CS4g8GpA4Y1/?utm_medium=copy_link
I didn’t know a backyard is considered abroad. I guess if your parents don’t let you out of the house — it is.
Thank you, Frank. A few random thoughts.
– I hope John Tighe is doing ok. I wish him the best.
– I suspected Kristin and Karen would feel that way about Nancy. They saw Nancy get suckered into being Prefect and witnessed her slow downfall.
– I don’t see Frank as being a vegetarian. Rude if they didn’t take his input when making dinner plans.
– I’d guess Malcolm Butler is looking for a self-esteem boost – what with his NFL career coming to an end. Reliving his glory play and rubbing the nose in it of poor Seahawk fan, Ice-Nine, may give him that self-esteem boost. But come on, Malcolm, as every good little Espian knows. that’s not how you raise your self-esteem. Read the mission statement, MB.
– I wish the staying at Clare’s farmhouse story was more entertaining. Oh well. Not surprising- what with her being such a hoot
Sarah Edmondson not only milked other low self-esteem losers by getting them to do NXIVM “courses”, she still milks her time in NXIVM, going from willing perpetrator to profiting, self-righteous victim. She loves attention, as much as her tribe loves money.
Uganda Oxenberg too has been completely let off the hook by the press. She is full of the brown stuff too. She can shove her advice up her not-so-royal fish pie. Her devoted mother got her out with Frank Parlato’s help.
Addressed to Frank Report directly and not to Anonymous, August 28, 2021 at 9:04 am:
Frank Report and its editors have learned nothing about how to deal with foul comments. No wonder Frank Report is going down and readers and commenters no longer want to read or comment on Frank Report. According to Alexa.com, Frank Report now ranks only 528177th in worldwide Internet traffic.
Alexa is a very imprecise ranking system from what I can tell since the readership is steady and growing. Moz.com is a far better indicator.
Is the triggered person Susan Dones? She said the same thing in a post claiming people don’t want to talk to you.
Addressed to the triggered one directly and not to Frank Report:
Why are you such a cry baby?
What are you so offended by?
What was said in the above comment that creates such internal strife?
Do you believe what was said was false, or do you know it is true but do not like the wording?
Get over yourself.
Do you speak on behalf of readers and commentators of Frank Report?
What qualifies you to claim people do not want to read or comment?
Also, stop being RACIST to Ugandan people, you bigot.
“She loves attention, as much as her tribe loves money.” A touch anti-semitic there? My first post and last. Yeah, time to leave Frank Report. Bunch of nutters in the comments section.
Don’t let the door hit your self-righteous ass on the way out, cuck boy.
And there was nothing “anti” in the above triggering post. A fact was given. Just because a fact is negative does not mean it is “anti”.
You are probably a little “woke” White liberal pussy.
Oh, don’t worry about him. He’s your resident racist troll. He periodically promises to leave, then keeps coming back to post this type of stuff every once in a while because he has to blow off some steam here because he’s too chicken shit to say these things to anyone’s face. His primary alias is Bangkok but he’s really a Bangcunt because he has no cock.
Still not got your little incel gland stinky?
I have never promised to leave.
I am not Bangkok.
There is not a thing I would not say to someone’s face, especially if I consider them inferior and below me.
Such as an autistic pakistanki immigrant spank specialist who thinks he is the soul mate of a c-list television smell-the-fart actress he spanks to.😂
A person cannot help being autistic, it is nothing to shame a man over and as for being a Pakistani, this is a proud and noble condition to have achieved in life.
Also being in love, even if unrequited, to one’s dream woman, is something we should respect at a distance. For it shows the man has an ideal and that he will not sacrifice his ideal. Consider, if your supposition is true, and that this person you call Spanky has fallen in love with an impossible dream, and has therefore sacrificed being with any other woman on earth, even a woman who will have him, this kind of devotion should not be downplayed.
Many religious people have the same kind of devotion for their unseen God or Goddesses.
When you consider that Spanky’s love is no less a goddess than Kristin K. how can you fault the man? He has given the best years of his life to her and she perhaps does not even know of her existence. That’s devotion.
But what if his autism causes him to waste 20 years of his life masturbating himself into oblivion and old age?
That is not noble devotion. That is cause for an exorcism.
Two years, seven months ago, it was estimated that ol’ Spanky has dong-sneezed 3.70 pounds of pale marmalade, in fourteen years, while pleasuring himself thinking of Kristin Kreuk
https://frankreport.com/2019/02/27/mathematician-computes-devotion-sultan-has-for-kristin-kreuk/
If he were to be given just one dollar for every millilitre of gland-spit that he slaps out while thinking about Kristin Kreuk, he would have $1680 before tax.
Think of all that money Spanky has let slip through his callused fingers over many years of “devotion”.
And the mathematical estimation in the above article is out of date. According to the Spank Formula in the article, he lets fly with 10ml of the groin batter every month.
Forgive me if my calculations are a little off, as I am slightly merry, but 31 months later, that would be an additional 310ml of live cultures earning himself an extra $310.
So India Oxenberg has a long article in People that reveals hardly anything. How surprising.
She does, however, promote herself as an expert in how to spot a cult and avoid “high control groups”. This from a woman who joined a cult and remained loyal to the high control group long after most had fled.
This is like a 300 lb. fat slob offering fitness advice.
The arrogance of this woman is amazing. Her lack of insight is astounding. What the hell makes her think she’s qualified to give people advice on anything?
Yet she’s avidly marketing herself as a professional victim. Like being a loser who f*cked up royally is something to be proud of.
And, of course, she tosses in the standard line about “anyone can be coerced into joining a cult.”
No. No, they can’t. Not everyone is stupid and naive like her. Very few people join cults, and they tend to fit a pattern. Bubble-headed self-centered Hollywood chicks being a prime example. Just look at how many of them were in DOS.
Quoth she:
“I felt directionless at the time and was looking for structure and guidance. I felt vulnerable and ill-equipped for life on my own. I thought I needed to know certain things about myself to move forward with my goals and dreams. I believed that Nxivm, and the people there, could mentor me toward becoming stronger and more capable of starting my own small business and help me in my own self-discovery.”
The blind ambition, the arrogant sense of privilege she inadvertently reveals here is appalling. What the hell made this 19-year-old bubblehead think she was qualified to run a business? To be in a position of leadership? When she freely admits she’s “directionless” in her own life!
Arrogance, privilege. And greed. These are the hallmarks of the people who joined NXIVM. They all had an itch to make a big mark in the world. Never satisfied, they wanted more. More and more.
Get a job, losers. Gain some life experience, some actual useful knowledge. Work your way up. See if you can make it as assistant manager at Target before thinking you ought to run a company.
Nxivm marketed itself as the road to quick success (riches). The spiritual road to making big bucks (Does anyone spot the contradiction here?). These fools took the hook. ‘Cause they’re greedy dumbasses.
And yet they still claim “anyone can find themselves in a cult”.
No, dumbasses. You joined a cult. We didn’t. So maybe you should try shutting the f*ck up and quit giving advice.
But no. Puffed up with pride at their new status as victims, they crow about it like it makes them special. “Look at me, I did a really stupid thing! Buy my book, listen to my podcast! Let me tell you how you should live your life, ‘cause I screwed up my own!”
These people ought to slither under a rock and disappear from public view. They ought to be ashamed. India Oxenberg is lucky she’s not in prison. Her shameless self-promotion is disgusting and it’s obvious she hasn’t learned a thing.
The French media company News 24. fr has published under ” La survivante de NXIVM, India Oxenberg, réfléchit à la survie d’une secte sexuelle : « J’ai ressenti de la honte et de la culpabilité » “the same article as Fox News.
News24.fr
La survivante de NXIVM, India Oxenberg, réfléchit à la survie d’une secte sexuelle : « J’ai ressenti de la honte et de la culpabilité »
Posted by Merlin CharpieLast Modified 27 août 2021 –
https://news-24.fr/la-survivante-de-nxivm-india-oxenberg-reflechit-a-la-survie-dune-secte-sexuelle-jai-ressenti-de-la-honte-et-de-la-culpabilite/
Women’s Image Network ANNOUNCES its 23rd WOMEN’S IMAGE AWARDS FILM & TELEVISION NOMINEES
By Women’s Image Network Aug 28, 2021
HOLLYWOOD, Calif., Aug. 28, 2021 /PRNewswire-PRWeb/ — Women could reach their full potential when all media depicts girls and women as complex and ever-evolving human beings. In addition to honoring two illustrious musical artists this, The Women’s Image Awards also present 18 film and television competitive categories. To advance the value of women and girls, since its 1993 founding Women’s Image Network, (WIN), has produced The Women’s Image Awards to celebrate artists whose work depicts dimensional female media images.
Now in its 23rd year, The Women’s Image Awards film and television nominees are:
OUTSTANDING Documentary Film
[ … ]
Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult
[ … ]
OUTSTANDING Film Produced by a Woman
[ … ]
Cecilia Peck, Inbal B. Lessner, India Oxenberg Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult
OUTSTANDING Film Directed by a Woman
[ … ]
Cecilia Peck Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult
[ … ]
WHAT: The Women’s Image Awards 23
WHERE: Los Angeles, California
WHEN: Thursday October 14, 2021
SHOW THEME: Standing On Her Shoulders Employs Appreciation to Advance Gender Parity The Women’s Image Awards show connects participants to our audiences and creates a lasting community in a two-hour window. To promote appreciation our ‘Standing On Her Shoulders’ theme provides honorees, nominees, performers and presenters an opportunity to pay homage to one of their most influential female predecessors.
The Women’s Image Awards, are a production of Women’s Image Network, WIN, and celebrate outstanding film and television that also promotes the value of women and girls. Since 1993, The Women’s Image Awards have celebrated both female and male directors, writers, producers and artists who compete in its fourteen categories. Founder and filmmaker Phyllis Stuart says: “The Women’s Image Awards employ appreciation to advance gender parity.”
[ … ]
Media Contact
Joy Tuttle, Light Productions, +1 (310) 873-8756, info1@thewinawards.com
Twitter
SOURCE Women’s Image Network
https://www.wfmz.com/news/pr_newswire/pr_newswire_entertainment/womens-image-network-announces-its-23rd-womens-image-awards-film-television-nominees/article_6b14ebb8-1e7d-5805-bcff-e65a09eb96e8.html
Fox News
CRIME
NXIVM survivor India Oxenberg reflects on surviving a sex cult: ‘I felt shame and guilt’
The daughter of actress Catherine Oxenberg was recruited by ‘Smallville’ alum Allison Mack
By Stephanie Nolasco | Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/nxivm-india-oxenberg-surviving-cult
Frank
You took my other comment down – why?
I listened to Kim try and tell you facts, but OH NO – YOUR butt is too busy for Kris’ case- YOU rudely whispered in her ear and then hung up – and NEVER called back. What a jerk-!!!!!!!!!
YOU have NO intentions of finishing KRIS’ case, just more LIES and EXCUSES-!!!!
YOU want attention from other people’s cases and means. YOU crave attention from other people’s pain.
Kim is sad this evening, but we have reassured her, that YOU are just too busy and NOT functioning on ALL cylinders right now.
Kim has cried – look at yourself in the mirror – always “making excuses” of why YOU are NOT interested in Kris’ case, and why YOU are so in “in love” with the monster.
Grapevine
Kim, I mean Grapevine [I like your nom de plume], please understand that the whole world does not and cannot revolve around your desire to have stories written about your sister and yourself. Please be patient. We will be reporting more on this topic in the coming days.
I think a morning omelet is a sexual reference.
Nooo! You say?