Public Statement After Recent Sentencings
The Dossier Project was formed when a group of women came together to honor the truth of their experience in DOS, and address the lies and mischaracterizations about DOS in the media. Since the story broke in October 2017, the narrative has morphed from salacious exaggeration to complete and utter fiction.
The effects have been devastating; not just for us, but for those who have suffered at the hands of a corrupt justice system and prosecutors who care more about winning than truth and justice.
Keith Raniere was sentenced to 120 years. Allison Mack was sentenced to three years. And Lauren Salzman received no prison time. How are these discrepancies possible given the seriousness of the charges? To those of us who were there when DOS existed, who witnessed what actually happened, the answer is clear: the entire case and the whole media sensation is a sham.
The government and media claim things about DOS that make a mockery of women’s empowerment and gender equality. They assert that women are not the decision makers in their own lives and should not be held responsible for their own choices. The freedom to make lifestyle choices, whether unconventional, radical, or otherwise, is one of the foundational tenets of living in a free society. Yet, our experience tells a very different story.
For those of us who engaged in proffer sessions with the government, the prosecutors made it clear there would be severe consequences for not conforming to their narrative, which made DOS out to be abusive and criminal. Some of our friends complied to avoid prosecution, or to end the persistent harassment by the media. You might say they are victims, but not of NXIVM or DOS. They are victims of a culture that punishes anything outside the norm, threatens those who don’t conform, and ultimately rewards victimhood above personal responsibility.
Despite facing threats on multiple fronts, we will not be silenced or bullied into adopting a fantasy that promotes the infantilization of women and destroys the principle of due process.
We are consistently attacked for our views and told by onlookers what our experience was and how we should feel about it. However, we firmly believe that, even if we were to find out we’re wrong about the fundamental nature of DOS or Keith Raniere’s intentions, there is no need and no place for hate when it comes to seeking truth, pursuing justice, and living in a civilized society.
Over the course of nearly two decades, there were over 17,000 people who participated in the NXIVM community and who were positive about their experience. Many of these people have been terrorized by the government, the media, and opportunists looking for attention and financial gains. The public has largely celebrated and glorified this witch hunt. We believe it is wrong to treat any member of society with such prejudice and condemnation, no matter the accusation or association.
We encourage everyone to investigate the truth and entertain the reality that the government and media may not be motivated by honor, but instead by politics and profit. Agree or disagree with our choices, but stand with us for truth and justice. Our shared future and individual liberty depends on it.
***
The Dossier Project consists of Nicki Clyne, Linda Chung, Leah Mottishaw, Danielle Roberts, Michele Hatchette, Sahajo Haertel, Samantha Le Baron and Angelica Hinojos.
According to the Times Union:
After Keith raped Cami (as an adult this time) again – Nancy added a new jness/Nxivm training module. Get ready ya’ll…
When men know their partner may be leaving them, then they will rape the woman to mark their territory.
Physically forced rape of your partner is just natural, territorial, property-marking behavior of a healthy male.
If you think “your” woman is leaving you. (Did any women leave Keith, easily? Ever?)
And one more time…
Is it rape if the woman enjoys it?
“I can make a very rapable baby”, says Keith Raniere.
Is it rape if the baby enjoys it?
Y’all, it was just a harmless, program to empower all women.
Why is there such hate/media bias/prosecutorial misconduct/billionaire enemies’ conspiracy against DOS? And Nxivm? And vanguard?
Free Keith Raniere!
Thanks for sharing this. I will aim to read about it
I’ve probably said too much but since I’m here right now and reading this statement again, I’m going to point out one last thing.
DOS statement reads “we will not be silenced or bullied into adopting a fantasy that promotes the infantilization of women”
Because what else was this master/slave thing actually doing? The women had to ask permission to eat!!!
You’re seriously trying to convince me that you, yourselves, didn’t adopt a fantasy (invented by keith) that infantilized women, requiring them to ask permission for everything including what they ate?
It makes no sense!
This is a completely contradictory and illogical statement.
What in the hell is more infantilizing than to have to ask permission for anything at all?!!! Strong women, nay people, are accountable to themselves for the choices they make and do not require a “master” to do so. This is the difference between children who generally don’t have the legal ability to make choices and decisions for themselves and need parents vs adults who understand the need to be responsible for themselves.
Maybe they think we are all stupid and can’t spot their contradictions. If so, the joke is on them. Their statements are made of glass.
You’re correct. Keith’s slow boil got them to believe that up was down and down was up. It got him all the chicks and got the women nowhere.
Great analysis, my2cents.
Read the recent Times Union article.
Keith is a rapist.
Cami has revealed more information. Including sketchy pre-trial Nxium crisis agents hiding her in Mexico with intimidating fear tactics and promises of a job & money.
It kinda made me realize why the DOS die-hards work day & night fighting offensively for Keith and Nxivm. Still. They want to get out ahead of more damning information they know is coming out.
As bad as DOS and Keith have been exposed and reported on already…
It’s so much worse than we really know.
Thanks. I was not aware of the article – and will look for it.
The remaining DOS women really bother me. I wanted to support them but what they are doing is very wrong. In their most recent video, they were all teaming up to bully Nicole. They discussed how Nicole did not deserve to gain restitution. How Nicole acted like she was entitled.
It is not an entitlement to ask to be paid for your work.
Can you please provide a link or more info about the article? I was unable to find it, tx in advance.
“Woman abused by Rainere at 15 joins lawsuit alleges forcible rape”
* headline is this or close to it
Times Union yesterday (that’s when I saw it)
I couldn’t link the dang thang!
The whole master-slave thing with KR at the head is infantilizing women. Starving them is also, in a sense, infantilizing them. Making them reliant on KR rather than their careers is infantilizing them and making them reliant on the cult.
KR did all sorts for which he was not even prosecuted including those early allegations of sex with a 12-year-old, never mind years of vicious unfair litigation against people he thought had wronged him and much else. In the end, he was jailed for crimes of which he was guilty. He could have chosen not to break the law like most of the rest of us but he didn’t.
Great points, jane.
Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme, now 71 years old, still remains loyal to the Manson cult that she joined at age 19. Since being released from her “life sentence” for attempting to assassinate President Ford (she couldn’t figure out how to work a pistol), she is living in Upstate NY.
Upstate NY, just like Raniere and his cult.
Lynette “Loser” Fromme never broke free of the Manson cult. The murders didn’t change her opinion of Manson. His conviction and life sentence didn’t. The obvious fact that the man was a lunatic and a monster didn’t change her opinion.
Some people just can’t change. And facts just don’t matter to them. Or the truth. Or reality.
Some people are just that way. Cult members tend to be that kind of person.
Good point.
In Chowchilla prison, the Manson girls continued to consort only with each other (not sure whose is left now). The other inmates knew who they were but weren’t super interested in these old ladies who kept to themselves. But if you got too close physically, they would scream and clutch each other and carry on. This was in the 1990s.
There is a fairly recent great movie about the Manson girls in prison. A college teacher tries to educate them. It reminds me of Nxivm die-hards.
The Manson girls are caught in an echo chamber loop. Parroting back to each other (DOS 8 + Nxivm 5).
The Manson murderers have no empathy for the victims. Even separated from the cult it is still, ” Charlie says. Charlie’s says.”
It’s based on a book and a real person. She just can’t believe how much coercive control Manson still has on the women.
How the Manson girls are still following orders. Just like you wrote. Even in jail. With all the evidence and wreckage.
I can’t stand any of these women but Nicki Clyne and that lawyer lady make me feel the worst. Take heart and notes, my friends.
Don’t just walk away but run and get yourself to safety when one of these types of people crosses your path.
They will pervert everything, no holds barred. Accuse you of being weak for not buying into their sick regime.
It’s never normal to be blackmailed by your friends, no matter how eloquently they try to explain it.
Wow, great point. It is important to take notice of the type of people they are.
This is so strong: “It’s never normal to be blackmailed by your friends, no matter how eloquently they try to explain it.”
He’s not getting out of prison. Hopefully, these ladies will eventually realize this and get on with their lives.
I would like to remind Nicki and her DOS comrades to start preparing for Keith Raniere’s 61st birthday on Thursday, August 26, because preparing for a 10-day birthday party of this magnitude in these times of Corona restrictions requires thorough preparation and organizational skills, not to mention lots of money. How many guests are expected and have registered? Again at the old familiar location or perhaps in Tucson, Arizona?
Can we assume that Nicki Clyne knows to focus on the really important things?
Nicki Clyne
@nickiclyne
·
9 h
Back in the city. Did I miss the memo about no one wearing a bra anymore?
Nicki never stops looking for DOS slaves Keith might want as “fuck toy slaves”.
Nicki has to look at all women’s tits. It is part of her lifetime commitment as Keith’s first-line slave.
When vanguard gets out of prison, Nicki Clyne will dazzle him with all her new DOS recruits.
Then Keith will finally realize Nicki should be #1. Or at least #21. It will be so empowering for ALL women.
Yup. All she does is put people down and pretend to be superior.
Noticed this the other day – the no bra thing.
I endorse and encourage this fashion statement.
Free the nip or something? Too lazy to come up with a pretend freedom angle on it.
Guess I need to get out more. But, I too endorse and encourage this brave and modern fashion statement.
Roberta Glass True Crime Report
Lauren Salzman’s Extraordinary Sentencing Hearing
Premiere on 07.08.2021
https://youtu.be/Dklq6Ra31BM
Lauren Salzman came to the Brooklyn Federal Courthouse on July 28, 2021 to be sentenced for her racketeering crimes that she performed as a member of the NXIVM cult. Roberta Glass was there in the courtroom for the most extraordinary sentencing hearing.
The Roberta Glass True Crime Report is produced by Ati Abdo MacDonald
Introduction by Tuesday Money of the Elephant Lounge podcast.
Roberta would like to thank her Patreon supporters.
Anybody check Suneel’s Twitter account recently? It seems that most of his (and all of his NXIVM related) tweets are gone. Could this be a good sign?
Suneel came to his senses or deleted his old Twitter threads like most people eventually do.
Wow! You may be right!! There’s nothing about NXIVM left on the page. Does anyone know if he woke up??
I’ve always had the most hope for Suneel. He’s got a brain and has to eventually call bullshit on Keith.
I don’t think so, guys.
Suneel retweets Nicki Clyne regularly and her dumbass project etc.
I agree – I’d imagine he’s finding life to be more difficult when you publicly attach yourself to a pedophile serving a 120-year sentence. There’s just not a lot of folks that want to do business with you. Who knew? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As for Nicki’s project – her dossier project currently ranks as the dumbest project on earth, you are correct. Her other project, for prison reform, is not dumb, it is totally necessary. The problem is that nobody credible would ever work with her. She is a liar and currently believes in enslaving women. She has no experience in prison reform, other than dancing outside a prison. It’s too bad because with her passion and commitment, she might be able to get somewhere with it.
I get that these women had positive experiences in DOS. I guess it is a tragic aspect of life. You can do wonderful good things all of your life. And then spend 10 minutes raping a 15-year-old and suddenly everyone forgets about all the good you’ve done and you are forever defined by one thing.
Yeah, sure. How often is it that you hear that people do good things all their life and then do a heinous act like premeditated murder or rape a child? You don’t accidentally or mistakenly do those things.
They were more than likely never that good of a person.
All those “good things” were done by Keith in order for him to be able to rape a 15-year-old.
That part was Keith’s real life. Being a sexual predator and abuser of women. The rest was the means to an end.
Everything around Keith was structured to facilitate Keith as a sexual predator.
Very, very common for serial abusers and predators. Keith is, once again, highly unoriginal.
Look at BTK look at John Wayne Gacy. Look at serial rapists — most have a careful veneer of being a “good” person. But their real passion is being a sexual predator
You’re totally right, Flip it Around!
And a good majority of them also take “trophies” just like keith did with his pussy picture collection.
Frank Parlato said that Biden is not mentally retarded.
The truth is entirely different.
Joe Biden has lost Afghanistan and Biden is too damned insane to know it.
About one month ago brain dead potato head Biden claimed that it is not inevitable for the Taliban to take over Afghanistan.
It’s happening,
Anyone who voted for Biden is a mental retard.
Biden’s War against a virus will be an even bigger disaster!
Just the same way that the War Against Drugs is a Disaster!
AFGHANISTAN HAS FALLEN! THE TALIBAN TAKEOVER!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9898321/Freed-jail-help-Donald-Trump-Abdul-Ghani-Baradar-head-Afghanistan.html
Shadow, the Trump administration freed Baradar.
Why?
Flowers –
You just burnt, Shadow!
“The government and media claim things about DOS that make a mockery of women’s empowerment and gender equality”
What was goin on in DOS was a mockery of woman’s empowerment.
The suffragettes would turn in their graves.
“The government and media claim things about DOS that make a mockery of women’s empowerment and gender equality. They assert that women are not the decision-makers in their own lives and should not be held responsible for their own choices.”
Are they saying here that Lauren and Allison should have received harsher sentences?
Because they also say: “Keith Raniere was sentenced to 120 years. Allison Mack was sentenced to three years. And Lauren Salzman received no prison time. How are these discrepancies possible given the seriousness of the charges? “
At least the DOS woman and Frank agree 100% that the current justice system is severely flawed.
What a load of whining. They’ve got an opinion of their DOS/NXIVM experience and others have a differing opinion. Big deal, so what. Frankly, I think giving yourself over as a “slave” to make progress on your own goals has to be one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.
Did I make the stupid mistake of allowing Raniere into my life – I sure did. And when I saw through my own naivety and through his lies, I left. Yes, plenty of people may think me a fool for falling for his crap in the first place. Big deal, so what? Put on your big girl panties and quit whining, ladies. The “victims of the media” dance you’re doing is pathetic.
L
Would you mind sharing what caused you to ‘wake up’ and leave?
Ice-Nine
My buddy, I think she is not going to elaborate because the dead enders might be able to figure out who she is.
***
I wonder if in purgatory the Devil makes people listen to recordings of Alonzo and his favorite obscure guru…..
Alonzo drove Claviger, you, and me bat-shit crazy. I believe, Alonzo has what it takes to work in Purgatory!
Mostly I grew up. Met him at 17; got played just like he plays everybody into a “relationship” at 18; got out at 22. He only had one minion at the time who convinced me to give him a chance when I first cut him off (prior to “relationship”) – not like the army of gaslighting flying monkeys he employed during NXIVM.
The moments of mental grace that helped me make the decision to leave? A hobby that had me running into people outside his influence where I could observe real human kindness and respect. Realizing I wanted that and not what I had. And the kicker came when he made the first steps towards physical abuse (cuz I had the temerity to say I didn’t think we worked as a couple and wanted to break it off). He blocked me into a corner with his body and put me on my bed and sat on me so I couldn’t leave. After that, I knew I was leaving – any thing else that happened as I planned my exit was just more nails to secure the coffin.
L.
Sorry you went thru that. Glad you got out. Thanks for sharing.
@L. – that’s a fascinating story, thanks for sharing. That is the first time I can recall a story of keith being physically abusive himself. If it happened with you, 100% he was doing it to others. I’m very happy to know you left.
I have to give it to keith, he was really good at charming the young women somehow. I don’t know what convinced you, but I’m glad you got out.
If you have a story that would be humiliating to keith, I hope you decide to share it. Just a little revenge 😉
I think I may have given a wrong impression. Most of Raniere’s abusiveness was mental/emotional – which I did not, at first, recognize as abuse. But I knew about domestic violence and how it starts with just small incidents. I was already sure that I didn’t want to remain in a romantic relationship with him when he blocked me into the corner. He kept saying “I’m not touching you” when he did that. Which was true, but I also could not have gotten past without physically pushing him. I’m not sure he would have gone further with physical incidents if I had stayed – but it was enough to ensure I didn’t wait around to find out. Truly, the mental/emotional abuse was more damaging.
I’ve shared many of the incidents I went through in my comments on this blog. I do it mostly to give some perspective to women who may be struggling to understand the breadth of Raniere’s BS and how it affected them. Recognizing similar experiences can really shed light on it all.
Are all of their statements vague ramblings with no point?
You’re just catching on?
These women are cowards. When all the stakes were high, when they could lose their freedom, they did and said nothing. They were silent. Now they are speaking out. But they are not risking anything. Their freedom is not at stake. When it was, they were silent. When they could be deported or sent to prison for decades, they said nothing. They are cowards. Sure, now anyone can speak out. Nothing is at risk. They are not thought-leaders. They are not independent thinkers. They are not bad-ass women fighting against the establishment. They are cowards.
They are cowards.
Their logic also has a lot of flaws. They mix fact with fiction to confuse audiences and this gains supporters through the confusion of seeing some truth in what they are saying.
They talk about women’s empowerment yet fail to recognize the value of another woman’s work. In several of their videos, they call Nicole, the sex victim, an “entitled woman” for asking to get paid for her work. They really don’t see that women deserve to be paid for their labor.
That was why NXVIM had so many women who were slaves: they worked their asses off and received less than living wages (despite having funding from a billionaire). These remaining DOS women have been trained to not appreciate the labor of other women. They think women who ask to receive at least minimum wage to be “entitled”.
Their logic is flawed and they truly do not see it.
Simply said: The remaining DOS women are cowards with flawed logic.
Better to be a coward temporarily then to spend 3 years in hell – I mean prison!
They are cowards for life. They are defined as not standing up for their beliefs and their leader when it mattered the most. They showed who they are.
The women who were not cowards for Keith – Pam and Barbara Jeske – are now dead. So, you are right. Better perhaps to be a coward than defend with your life a monster who throws you out like garbage once you age. Barbara Jeske was stunning. Why did she accept Keith?
Just love your wisdom, mexican lady! Thanks for your kind comments. I agree with you that these women are cowards. None have produced any evidence to support the claims they make about their group being a force for change or some kind of good thing in the world. They just blather on like a bunch of whiny babies about how they’ve been so misunderstood and how this experience was good for them and how everyone on the outside is a liar/gold digger. This from a group that claims the path to true self-development is to have a male Grandmaster who has sex with everyone in an all-women’s group that makes you into a master over your own female slaves? It’s so sick.
So…More of the same tripe that the 8 DOS slaves constantly whine. “Poor us. We are so wrongly maligned”. How predictable. And boring. Everyone is so mean and wrong. Except us.
Why do these die-hard DOS slaves care so very, very much what anyone else thinks about their pee-pee photographing, diet-obsessed, misogynistic, cult? Move on!
These DOS slaves are really hanging onto their 15 minutes. Talk about making victimhood your whole identity. Being victims is the DOS 8’s entire world. Who are they – if they are not Keith Raniere’s misunderstood “fuck toy slaves”?
No one, really.
Lord, are these DOS slaves tedious. And this statement is barely about Allison or Lauren. It is a glancing, perfunctory commentary, which is utilized mostly to make it all about themselves. And their perceived victimhood. And Keith. Poor Keith Raniere. Boo hoo. Again.
This is not a robust show of support for their, “sorority sisters” (and Nicki’s ex wife).
It is mostly about themselves. Again! And it is way too little, too late about Lauren and Allison.
Compared to the DOS slaves’ massive effort for years on Keith’s behalf – this tiny blip is so laughably weak.
Grade: F for failure.
The women of The DOSsier Project are forgetting that “there are no ultimate victims so…(they’ll)…choose not to be a victim.” Keith Raniere and these women love playing the victim card and have been acting like martyrs, but the fact is when push came to shove they couldn’t stand strong to their beliefs and speak on behalf of Raniere and their “friends.” It’s so hypocritical!
100% agree, Anonymous.
When push came to shove, the remaining DOS women were silent. They are cowards. They are speaking out now that they have nothing to lose. Even the Manson girls spoke out and risked themselves more for Manson than they ever did for Keith.
Keith can’t even run a cult right and is second-best in everything…lol
You’re right. It is surprising that there is hardly any mention about Allison being her wife. The remaining DOS women hate women. They only care about their master Keith
It should be noted that this “statement” is a rephrasing of previous statements from this site and specifically Clyne about DOS and NXIVM. At this point, I suspect the site is only run by Clyne and that the rest have bailed on it.
It should also be noted that the group has never directly addressed the moral stance on a few key things in no particular order:
1) Branding
2) Master/Slave dynamic that is not the same as BDSM even though it borrowed the terminology
3) Hiding who was actually in charge of DOS from many members of DOS
4) The weight control program
5) The demands to provide sexual gratification
6) The demands for collateral
Probably missing a few. Seems like a pretty important place to start if trying to “defend” against incorrect information and this is the information that is out there. Of course, when performing spin, as these ladies are, you are supposed to ignore the giant stinking steaming pile of shit in the room and instead point to the pee stain in the corner, which is effectively what this statement is.
“For those of us who engaged in proffer sessions with the government, the prosecutors made it clear there would be severe consequences for not conforming to their narrative” The Dossier Project
This is the narrative that Nicki and her friends will use to rebuild NXIVM.
I vote they all take the personal responsibility route and maybe take a peek at those photos their younger member has pre-scar age that he sent to those “experts.”
Oh, wait that is ok in your world so let’s face the wider facts. Either you live in society or you fall outside it. If you do not pay taxes and follow the law, then you cannot live like a grifter or free in life. You, therefore, live in the wider world which as Darwin put it translates to “survival of the fittest.”
Lons etc. kill or be killed every single day as do every other species on the planet to survive. You can’t have it both ways or claim to be a victim of the safer option as you end up serving a long prison sentence for taking the piss out of all your contemporaries in society who pay taxes and live by the rules and still enjoy life
I think it’s great these human beings continue to find the strength and the courage to speak out against this dehumanizing onslaught.
I support them.
Alanzo
They are “dehumanizing” themselves by repeating themselves incessantly, deflecting, or simply ignoring direct questions, and being condescending to the public. They’ve made themselves into a stereotype. Not individual people. They’re the moral of the story: Don’t join a cult or this is the zombie you’ll become…Leftovers that a cult chewed up and spit out.
Alanzo-
Now you support the NXIVM cult?
WTF
C’mon Nice Guy. You know there’s no reasoning with Torquemadanzo. His brain is a scrambled mess. He’s just excited that finally people are reading his bullshit. Of the scores of articles he published on his own site, he has a total of 14 comments (I counted them). Seven of those were from him, and I’m pretty sure the other seven were fake. He just thinks he’s important now so let him be.
hahaha…great comment ice nine
Ice-Nine
How dare you! FYI Alonzo is incredibly impressive! The only thing more impressive than Allonzo is a baboon’s asshole. Both produce [redacted], but only the latter knows how to wipe.
Obviously, “Ice-Nine” is a pedophile-lovin Catholic.
And he hates me bringing up Torquemada, which is just the 500 year-old tip of the iceberg on the horrific criminal history of his pedophile lovin “Church”.
Covered up for any pedophiles lately, Ice-nine?
Alanzo
I doubt Ice-Nine is a pedophile-lovin Catholic. So can we act a bit more civilly with each other and keep the focus on the issues? Let’s try.
Alanzo-
Catholic Church?
Alanzo, you allegedly once belonged to NAMBLA!
At least according to the same source that told me you were passed over for promotions and that’s why you quit…
Actually, Frank, I disagree. It’s not really uncivil. It’s true. The Catholic Church does hide its pedophiles. But since I am neither a Catholic, a pedophile, a pedophile lover, nor a pedophile-lovin’ Catholic, his comment is really pretty lame. It was kind of a wasted opportunity for T-mada.
It’s like someone trashing the Real Madrid football team hoping that would bother me. And whatever they are saying to me is probably true, but what the hell do I care? Because I’m a mother fuckin’ American you see. And I watch football, but when I watch it, I watch the Seattle Seahawks. And here, we use the derogatory name for kicking a ball around a field, which is “soccer”. And unless it’s being played by 5th graders or really hot chics in the Olympics, most people don’t even recognize it as a sport. (Commenter’s note: Frank hates the US women’s team because they’re a bunch of mother fuckin’ liberals).
Torquey-Torquey. The End.
You’re my bitch, Ice-Nine.
Sincerely,
Malcolm Butler
Frank Report has reason to suspect that this comment was not made by Malcom Butler the football player.
Ice-nine? Oh no! Those 7 probably weren’t fake! It was probably me!
I spent a lot time of explaining my view on the gross negligence of DOS and I don’t think he even read it!!??
I actually don’t mind, though, because it was still a good thought exercise. I gave myself an opportunity to reconcile my instinctual response against my knowledge of the world and explain specifically why I feel what DOS did was bad.
And funny thing? After thinking about the topic so much, I feel pretty good, actually!
(And no EM required, lol!)
Alanzo. How can you support women who refuse to “take in the data” that they are on the wrong side of history? They fucked up and can’t admit it. They lied to the women they enrolled into DOS and won’t even take responsibility for that. They have admitted that they didn’t think the women would figure out it was KRs initials. What is wrong with you ?? Have you had therapy since leaving Scientology ?
Alonzo? Seriously? You support these women?
They open with the following statement:
“The government and media claim things about DOS that make a mockery of women’s empowerment and gender equality”
Meanwhile? Their master/slave and blackmail dynamic are what truly make a mockery of slavery and the international charter of human rights. They were literally branding and numbering recruits like cattle.
There’s nothing in the charter that sounds anything like what these weirdos are talking about. There’s no transgression of a human right when a woman breaks down and cries or backs out of a previously made agreement. It’s actually no issue to human rights for people to cry and regret and go a new way.
But there is definitely an infringement on human rights when so called friends collect blackmail worthy material under a racketeering style enterprise.
These women are pushing a very warped and dangerous agenda about what it means to be friends.
I think most average people can see through all this and I really don’t have a ton of sympathy for all those who clapped hands.
But Alonzo, I’m very interested to know what particular aspects of their conduct have earned your respect?
I see nothing but smug superiority.
I’m really curious about whatever you’ve seen that earned your respect.
Hi My2Cents –
I appreciate your challenging questions. You stay away from personal attacks. You stay on the subject. And you dig well into the real issues. That’s very valuable.
Thank you.
There’s a book called “The Righteous Mind: Why People are Divided by Politics and Religion” by a social scientist named Jonathan Haight which clearly lays out why people disrespect, and are disgusted by, others who don’t believe as they do.
All humans, in all cultures, do this.
I’ve studied social science, and I’ve traveled, and lived in, many parts of the world. I’ve been confronted by value systems and cultures and sub-cultures that are not the ones I grew up in. I was in a “cult” too, right here in America.
I recognize the onslaught that mainstream cultures have on those who don’t conform.
I believe people should be free to live the lives they want – as long as they don’t harm anyone else. I believe that this is the basis for a free society. I believe we are supposed to be living in a free society.
I believe that Keith Raniere harmed people. And I believe he was convicted of the criminal acts he committed.
But I don’t believe that everyone who was in NXIVM and DOS committed those same criminal acts.
Do you?
Alanzo
Alanzo did not respond to the question. He never stated why he shows admiration for a group of women who justify blackmailing their friends.
I always skip Alanzo’s comments because they tend to be rambling that aims to look progressive. Yawn….
MyTwoCents: Great points. Very on track on what matters
Alonzo posted that supportive message to the women because he believes this:
“I believe that Keith Raniere harmed people. And I believe he was convicted of the criminal acts he committed. But I don’t believe that everyone who was in NXIVM and DOS committed those same criminal acts.”
He doesn’t respond because he is smart. There is no point in responding to those who lack the necessary understanding and nuance, and are simply using this as an opportunity to take out their garbage, rather than dig deep into the issues.
Thanks, Nutjob. But that does respond to the question as to WHY he shows admiration for the remaining DOS women. He could believe they did nothing wrong (which is weird considering they had to at least lie to the women they recruited into their sorority) and not have admiration for them. Admiration is not only that you like them, but it is a much stronger feeling altogether. Why are these women from dos worthy of admiration?
Sorry, meant to write: “That does NOT respond to the question as to WHY he shows admiration for the remaining DOS women”.
Thanks
I agree with you. I appreciate your sharing your detailed view. That is helpful.
Thanks for your comment, Alonzo, I do try to see things as compassionately as I can from as many perspectives as my imagination can conjure.
Alonzo, I too, share the same belief that so long as nobody is being hurt that people should be free to believe in whatever they want and do whatever they think is best.
Whether the DOS members committed any crimes is a difficult question for me to answer but I’ll explain why.
First of all…it’s generally not a crime to tell a lie. Most people will agree that it’s a bad idea, and some will say occasionally lies have their place, (“Oh, your new haircut is not that bad.”) But the scale and magnitude to which these women hid information about the true nature of DOS from their recruits was pretty serious. According to the law, they breached the principle of Informed Consent.
Now, given that they were under very poor leadership, I’m not surprised none had the wherewithal to seek out further guidance on this matter. However, they certainly love to preach about how DOS was building strong and empowered women while at the time all of them were either too lazy to perform a cursory Google search on the topic, or they knew full well but chose to stand against the law anyway.
Another important concept in business and volunteering is known as Duty of Care. DOS greatly failed here, too. Imposing low-calorie diets that undermine physical health, prescribing classes that cause financial difficulty, and other activities such as readiness drills that interfere with a person’s ability to rest are most likely not in line with this principle. Yet, DOS pushed it even further by requiring recruits to produce so-called “collateral” that had the absolute purpose of being damaging to those who provided it. This is definitely gross negligence.
So? Are they guilty of crimes? I think they probably are! But I don’t think they will be charged with anything unless someone attempts to bring charges against them.
Hope this answer satisfies your curiosity about my response.
I’m still curious though why you support this group, though. I mean, I’m all for free speech and hearing out every side of a story but you also didn’t answer my question about why or how they’ve earned your respect?
To me, they seem like a bunch of whiny babies who won’t take accountability for anything. Kind of acting the opposite of what they preach.
Yet, I’m still genuinely curious about your response! For real.
My2Cents –
Have you ever had to stand up against mainstream majority oppression for your own minority beliefs or lifestyle?
Over time, the pressure becomes so intense that most people quit and assimilate. Many leave and denounce their former group to get the societal pressure to stop so they can be accepted back into the mainstream again. For them, “I was BRAINWASHED!” is an acceptable canard that the mainstream will forgive you for – even some federal judges will reduce and forgive prison time for that one.
As I said in my original comment:
“I think it’s great these human beings continue to find the strength and the courage to speak out against this dehumanizing onslaught.”
I have a small taste of what this takes, but nothing like what these human beings are going through. Being called “brainwashed sex slaves” in the global media?
Has that ever happened to you?
You make a lot of good points, My2Cents, all worth considering. But I don’t think your generalizations are true enough. For instance, when you say you think they’ve committed crimes, who did? What crime? Does that justify your blanket moral and criminal condemnation of all of them?
Blanket legal and moral condemnations of all individuals involved in a “cult” are very common, but are almost never true. I know this for a fact. I worked in low level organizations in a group that is widely considered the worst cult on the planet and I know that 99% of the people in Scientology never harmed anyone, and never would.
I’ve spoken to – for sometimes hours – at least 7 people who were involved in NXIVM and a couple who were in DOS. These people who are facing this societal onslaught openly and publicly have balls of steel.
I admire that.
And I support them.
Alanzo
IMO, there is a lot of truth to what Alanzo is putting out there. Personally, I can’t “support them” for two huge reasons.
1. Even if everything they are saying is accurate, they still don’t see that Keith is a straight-up conman. I can’t shake my head at their ignorance, and simultaneously support their premise. A premise that is based off of a conman’s con.
2. The real reason they are doing this whole “stand up against mainstream majority” is for one reason and one reason alone. It is to free Keith. Everybody is safer with Keith gone. If you don’t believe me, just wait until next month when Frank updates us on the lost women of NXIVM.
Great comment, my two cents
I really liked also the comment from Nutjob on why he does not support the DOS women.
The DOS women lose their power when you realize their “balls of steel” are to free keith. It is not because they have a big cause they support. It is all for keith, for a man. It is not about women’s empowerment.
Their movement around dancing at the prison was also not about the prisoners. Their movement all died once Keith left. They did not give a damn about those prisoners. It was all fake. It was all for Keith.
It is surprising they are not showing support for Clare or helping poor Allison (Nicki’s ex-wife!!) in some way. Why not support your fellow sorority sisters? Your NXIVM friends?
Thanks again, ML!
I don’t really think these women were actually “brainwashed sex slaves”. That’s just the salacious media selecting a headline that would be sure to draw attention to this grossly negligent enterprise.
And you’re so right that all they care about is defending themselves when it’s way too late. They are exactly like their pompous leader who probably truly believed all his complainants would be dismissed on some issue of consent that he didn’t even need to present a defense.
And now what? Now? Now is the time to share why DOS was so amazing and such a great idea and the way they try to accomplish it is by calling other people liars and gold diggers and actually even setting up another “pay to be in my elite group” scheme?
I got a response from Alonzo, btw. He said he has respect for these women because they have “balls of steel”. I just wonder when that was anybody’s favorite quality? That’s the kind of trait that can be both good and bad.
I would way sooner go for kindness and humility above anything else and I know I’m not alone in that.
These women are so obviously the not-nice people. The peer pressurers. The bullies. The liars. The type of women your mother warned you about.
Real friends never lie or trick you into making false accusations about your loved ones or demand the deed to your home, access to your credit card and pussy pictures, etc. just to be their friend.
And the worst part is, not only will they accept responsibility for nothing, they also try to explain the abuse away just like every abuser does.
The answer is simple. None of them have committed any crimes. Hence, they do not deserve your garbage. Having views one disagrees with or even supporting someone you don’t like, doesn’t make that person a criminal. All these women deserve to be treated with dignity. Frankly that extends to even criminals and people like you. If you are incapable of treating those whom you disagree with, with dignity, then that makes you a bigot.
Blackmail is a crime. Pimping is a crime. Withholding a human’s legal papers and immigration fraud are crimes.
Great points “DOS was/is criminal” – and all of those crimes were done by DOS members.
Totally agree, dos was/is.
You’re a tool — never forget that.
If “The government and media claim things (…) that make a mockery of women’s empowerment and gender equality”, Raniere et al did it first (!).