By Suneel Chakravorty
Two weeks ago, Frank Report published my commentary of Keith Raniere’s “Call to Action”, which was in support of Keith’s arguments on legal issues in his case.
Since then, readers of Frank Report have had a wide range of responses, some accusing me of being a brainless apologist, while others found merit in points I made.
In addition to my analysis of Keith’s brilliant ‘Call to Action’ essay, K.R. Claviger has done his own multi-part analysis.
- Claviger: Were Keith’s Legal Rights Violated? – Part I: Was He Illegally Kidnapped in Mexico, Was His Arrest in the U.S. Illegal, and /or Was He Illegally Isolated From His Family & Friends?
- Claviger: Were Keith’s Legal Rights Violated? – Part II: Did the EDNY Have Proper Jurisdiction – and/or Was the Denial of Bail Improper?
- Claviger: Were Keith’s Legal Rights Violated? – Part III: Were Domino Pleas of Co-Defendants, a RICO Charge, and a Hasty Jury Improper?
- Claviger: Pyramids, Abortions, and Kinky Sex Life of Victim — Were Keith’s Legal Rights Violated? – Part IV
This is the first in a series in which I’ll examine Claviger’s analysis.
I start with Claviger’s analysis of the prosecution’s use of the word ‘Pyramid” to describe Raniere’s businesses.
TO SCHEME OR NOT TO SCHEME?
Keith’s argument is that the prosecution’s using the word “pyramid” to describe businesses he created was an example of how “hate” and prejudice was used in his case:
Keith wrote:
“I supposedly create ‘pyramid organizations’ — different from normal ‘organizations’… The implication is somehow ‘pyramid’ is improper: I am at the ‘top’ or ‘apex’, control everything unchecked, in some ‘sinister’ and unspecified way… This label, ‘pyramid’, is a raw conduit for hate. The prosecution believes they ‘need’ to apply this hate because it increases their chance of ‘winning’. Shouldn’t the application of hate be abhorrent? Should the prosecution even be concerned about ‘winning’? What does the application of the hate-label ‘pyramid’ have to do with the pursuit of truth? Doesn’t hate obscure the truth? Don’t I, as the defendant, deserve an approach free of hate or mockery?”
In an attempt to debunk Keith’s argument, Claviger writes, “I’m not quite sure why Keith believes that there was any ‘hate’ involved in the prosecution’s decision to describe NXIVM/ESP as a pyramid organization.’”
Claviger incredibly claims that “pyramid organization” does not have a negative connotation, and cites a Bizfluent article that suggests the term is neutral.
I can agree that “pyramid” does not always, necessarily, in every single instance, have a negative connotation when people use it to describe someone’s business. But I would say it does have a decidedly negative connotation in nine out of 10 cases — and I would not look too closely into the 10th case either.
I mean it is patently ridiculous for Claviger to suggest that the prosecution saying that Raniere operates a “pyramid organization” was an innocent effort to describe the companies accurately and honestly and not meant to be negative and create prejudice against Raniere.
And we all know the word that typically follows pyramid is “scheme!”
To illustrate this, if I tell you right now about a company that is a pyramid organization how do you feel about it? Would you like to join it? Care to work there? Exactly.
The question is, what did the prosecution mean by “pyramid”? Were they simply explaining in neutral language the geometry of the NXIVM/DOS organizational structure? That the pyramid structure was “natural because there are far fewer leaders than workers, so … it is shaped like a pyramid,“ as the Bizfluent article describes a pyramid?
No, of course not. Raniere was not charged with running a pyramid scheme. Yet look at the prosecution’s public statement about the case, EDNY press release from March 26, 2018
In the press release, there are four uses of “pyramid” and they are all untrue and unfair and not relevant to the charges.
- “[Raniere] allegedly participated in horrifying acts of branding and burning them, with the cooperation of other women operating within this unorthodox pyramid scheme.
- “Nxivm maintains features of a pyramid scheme, as its courses cost thousands of dollars each and participants (“Nxians”) are encouraged to pay for additional classes, and to recruit others to take classes, in order to rise within the ranks of Nxivm.”
- Slaves were expected to recruit slaves of their own (thus becoming masters themselves), who in turn owed service not only to their own masters but also to masters above them in the DOS pyramid.
- “Raniere stood alone at the top of the pyramid. Other than the [sic] Raniere, all members of DOS were women.”
[Whether the above statements are accurate and valid, I will try to address in a future article.]
In #2, the prosecution uses the word “pyramid” in connection with “pyramid scheme”, which according to Wikipedia, is a type of business model “that recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, rather than supplying investments or sale of products,” and is often illegal. This connotation is clearly negative.
Furthermore, the “features of a pyramid scheme” the prosecution lists are common to many companies and in themselves not illegal.
In #4, in saying that “Raniere stood alone at the top of the pyramid,” the prosecution is combining the negative meaning of “pyramid scheme” with the hierarchical structure, and they are using the word “alone” to imply, I assume, abuse of unchecked power.
Do CEOs not stand alone? Why is it necessary for them to even state this?
The next line, stating that all the other members of DOS were women, while true, has nothing to do with hierarchical structure and, in my opinion, doubles down on the implication of abuse.
Some readers may completely miss the point and say, “Well, there was abuse!” The point here is that the prosecution used the word “pyramid” to imbue Keith with sinister, criminal intent before evidence had been presented.
As an aside, the claim of abuse may or may not be true. Clearly a jury of Keith’s peers believed it to be true and proven. However, my current opinion, based on sitting through the trial, is that Keith did not abuse the women of DOS.
Let me also relieve Claviger of his confusion as to why Keith believes the prosecution’s use of “pyramid” was a “raw conduit of hate.”
What Keith means by “hate” is that the prosecution used the word pyramid to inspire hatred or dislike of him by tapping into the common associations people make with the term, e.g. scam artist, fraudster, or Ponzi scheme.
Note that Keith was not charged with running a Ponzi or pyramid scheme.
I do agree with Claviger that the prosecution manipulating perception this way – as dishonest and unjust as it is – is likely not sufficient grounds for appeal. However, it does beg the question, why was it necessary to insinuate anything at all?
If Keith is the criminal they claim, why not simply list, point by point, his criminal conduct and let the facts speak for themselves?
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
Please leave a comment: Your opinion is important to us!
All is fair in love in war. Use of the term pyramid scheme is no better than Keith’s attorneys calling his survivors liars. It was Keith who lied up to the time he was caught and imprisoned. Does anyone remember a letter Keith wrote and sent to the entire NXIVM community specifically noting he was not involved with DOS? This was contradicted by his attorney in court when Agnifilio admitted Keith was the grandmaster. That one lie defiles any of Keith’s statements. You can’t trust a man who lies and does not atone for the lie he made.
Is all lying bad? If your kid asks you if Santa Claus exists, and you say “Yes” is that bad? If you are a concerned citizen in a genocidal government and you harbor “illegals” in your attic… if they come to your doorstep and you lie about hiding said “enemies” of the state, is that bad?
I don’t know why Keith released that original statement but my guess is, having known him for 13 years, he was trying to protect an organization that in his eyes, and in the eyes of many women, was a good thing. I personally know at least 20 women who used to be in DOS and loved being a part of it and enjoyed the practices they were doing.
It was something that was helping them uphold their words and commitments. I am sure there are many more women that haven’t said anything public about their participation in it because of the extreme prejudice that they would receive from it. In their words, “DOS was never about sex, it was about being a better version of themselves. Was it tough, yea, it that is what we signed for, willingly and consensually”.
I recommend you all check http://www.the dossierproject.com to hear it from the horse’s mouth, so to speak.
All lying is bad if you allow yourself to be labeled “the most ethical man in the world”. If DOS wasn’t a bad thing, why the need to “protect” anyone outside from knowing he was the grandmaster? Keith didn’t go to prison for the “women who loved it”. Keith went to prison for the totality of his crimes. And the genocidal government argument isn’t sound in this context.
Comparing Keith’s lie here to discredit his detractors and lying to support a child’s belief in Santa Claus reveals how twisted and truly stupid the write must believe we are or how truly twisted and stupid the writer is.
Regarding the use of the term “pyramid organization” (I don’t believe the prosecutors used “pyramid scheme”), I think the prosecution should be held to a standard that doesn’t depend on what the defense does. I’d like to live in a country where prosecutors don’t live by the motto “All’s fair in love and court.”
Nurturing the Nxium dead Ender’s feelings of being persecuted is wrong. It isn’t beneficial to enable their belief that they and Keith are the true victims.
It is time for them to take whatever they feel they learned from their “tech” out into the world and make something of themselves. At the point that, “self help” becomes the never ending goal and not a quick tune up – you are stuck.
You are just wallowing in this endless cycle of classes instead of living a life. How many women need to turn 40, 50 & 60 with less to show for those years inside Nxium then they had achieved before Nxium?
If everything else disappeared and all that was left, was this simple fact: people heavily involved in Nxium lose value in their lives they do not gain it. Then this organization would not be deemed benign. The business of Nxium is stealing money, time, careers, family. The very lives and potential life to live of those caught in it’s Nxium hamster wheel. It is no different than an alcoholic who isolates and maybe ” hurts no one” but also doesn’t live the life they might have had before years of heavy drinking stole it.
Prove every one wrong, nxians. Do something. Not related to Nxium. Achieve something. Not as part of Nxium. Other wise you are the proof that the ” tech” sucks.
Suneel is boring. I have empathy for him. But the only thing interesting he could possible say or do at this point, would be to demonstrate evidence of his having woken the fuck up.
Re Understanding Suneel:
At some point, we all have ridiculed Suneel for his zealous devotion and defense of Kieth Raniere.
It occurred to me today that I have never taken the time to think about what it must be like to be Suneel.
When Keith Raniere was found guilty and Nxivm destroyed, Suneel had his entire world evaporate right before his eyes.
Suneel lost a friend, a mentor, a hero, and a father figure. Even more than that, Suneel lost an entire community and family.
I can not reckon what all that loss must have felt like. Imagine your whole world and belief system crashing down on top of you.
Suneel was never part of DOS. Suneel believed he was part of something pure and good.
I do have empathy for Suneel. He believes he is doing the righteous thing and fighting for a friend.
I do not pity Suneel because even in the face of overwhelming odds, he fights on.
Anyone with that kind of tenacious spirit will always be okay.
Suneel?
The NXIANs are suffering from a terminal case of pyramania.
For all their obsession with “data,” none of them have produced a simple metric like how many times the prosecution used the term “pyramid.”
Given how they keep going on and on about the prejudicial character of the term, you’d think the prosecution’s case just consisted of this single word repeated for days on end.
Seems less like a rational argument (which they believe no one but themselves is capable of making) and more like a way to distract from the elephant in the room. By “elephant” I mean The World’s Smartest Child Rapist™ biding the rest of his life in a federal prison .
I appreciate Suneel’s breakdown of these points and I agree that the use of the word pyramid scheme to describe what was just companies with a hierarchical structure (like all companies except maybe some indie startups haha) was simply to create more horror and prejudice. The prosecutions and certainly the media did a ton of this in this case. From where I stand, none of that is necessary if the man is a monster. No need to add your own details and extra fear of so. It all points to how they crafted this story piece by piece in subtle and not so subtle ways. Thanks, Suneel.
Insofar as I can recall, the prosecutors did not use the term pyramid scheme. And do you really think their use of the term pyramid organizations caused “horror”?
It may not have caused “horror” but it most certainly elicits a feeling of repulsion or disgust, which is usually enough for the common person to turn off all critical thinking capacities. Pyramid organization, or whatever it was, was just one of these mechanisms that without the critical eye to understand exactly what that means and whether NXIVM was, in fact, such an organization, then it just means “bad.” Language is powerful and can provoke responses on both conscious and unconscious levels. Prosecutors know this and utilize it to their full advantage.
I agree that the term “pyramid organization” generally inspires negative feelings and thoughts about such an organization. This may not seem like a big point, but what if you took away this and all the other seemingly small bias-inspiring points of questionable relevance in the case? How might the story of Keith Raniere and NXIVM read then?
I don’t think most of us (myself included) fully get how much the sum of all the little bias-inspiring details about a case, when taken together, may completely change our opinions on guilt or innocence of a person.
After reading all the comments on this page I have come to the conclusion that K.R. Claviger is a very patient man.
Claviger-
Nothing like spending time telling a bunch of people the truth and have them get mad at you for it.
[…] arguments in his post, Who Are You Kidding, Claviger — Prosecution’s False Use of ‘Pyramid’ Was Meant to Dirty up K…, remind me of the loud, lingering death throes of a T-Rex right after the giant asteroid hit and […]
KR, You’re being baited now. You’ve stated everything. The appeal will play out, the end.
You did an awesome analysis.
But these leftover Nxians are baiting you now, and I would ignore them.
Sounds like they are blindly following marching orders from their seriously sociopathic leader to bomb you.
This sociopath branded women. Ignore them.
You did an amazing job. Let them spew. But in my opinion, ignore them. They know the issues. Don’t let yourself be played.
Hi Suneel-
The article below is a civil lawsuit case involving “forced” labor which is not exactly “forced”. It kind of questionable.
The article is timely and pertains to a certain degree to one of your points regarding “forced labor”.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1254398
If Raniere had not been charged and prosecuted using RICO, the DOJ would have had an extremely difficult time prosecuting him.
These are helpful points of view. Go Suneel!!
On the Law there is no distinction, there is a principle of law, which did not happen in the trial against Keith Raniere, since it is evident that his case was not treated with equity, and was influenced by the hatred and prejudice of the orchestrators of the complaint and preceded by a tenacious and fierce smear campaign by the media, which was reflected in the Jury, as has been affirmed, and which was accredited almost immediately and hastily, as well as, the non-deliberation of the Jury when issuing its conviction, which does not happen in procedures in which only the facts considered as crimes are analyzed and the decision is based exclusively on them.
I’ll bet Raniere is glad he taught that there are no victims.
NXIVM Photo Subject Guidelines:
1. Stare into the camera with an unblinking stare as per Scientology TR-0. (See Communication Course Pack.)
2. Open mouth slightly.
3. Show top teeth, but do not smile.
4.ALL NXIVM spokespeople must adopt this pose for any photos relating to the organisation.
This same pose should be adopted when faking sincerity or denying any misbehaviour.
L. Ron Raniere
You left out the oft mandated tongue salute evident in many NXIVM group shots and those Necker Island pics of the Bronfman
sister’s sexy Mama, Georgiana. 👅.
Love the trademarked “world’s smartest Chomo” for Vanguard, btw. Do we have an update on Keith’s travels? Heard the Tucson sex offenders are lining up for a seduction assignment.
Suneel’s arguments remind me of the loud, lingering death throes of a T-Rex right after the giant asteroid hit and drove him to extinction shortly thereafter.
He presents a fair question though…
Was the government using the “pyramid” label out of hate? Or were they describing Keith’s real history?
Let’s examine the facts.
In the 1990’s, a malfunctioning man (named Keith Alan Raniere) formed a pyramid scheme which scammed millions of dollars out of duped customers. This pyramid scam was eventually shut down by threats from the Attorney General.
A few years later, a pudgy man (named Keith Alan Raniere) formed a 2nd pyramid scheme with the assistance of his immoral girlfriend, who served as the figurehead of the company (due to Keith being legally barred from serving as the head of any pyramid schemes).
This 2nd pyramid scheme eventually collapsed under the weight of its own inadequacy.
Does Suneel acknowledge that Keith did these things?
If not, it would imply that Suneel is acting as the textbook definition of a ‘gelded’ cult member.
After that, a man with rodent feet (named Keith Alan Raniere) formed the precursor to NXIVM — a company called ESP — which utilized recruitment tactics & management styles similar to those of his previous pyramid schemes.
Then NXIVM was born, the next evolution of Keith’s history of pyramid schemes.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, that’s probably what it is.
Hint to Suneel…
Most real CEOs (of legit companies) have their power checked by an independent board of directors, not a group of ‘pretend’ directors who literally worship the CEO as their Vanguard and obey his every word. LOL.
In fact, the government was correct in labeling NXIVM as both a pyramid scheme and a cult.
A few questions for Suneel’s supporters:
1) How many non-cults (real companies) have a BOARD OF DIRECTORS who worship the CEO and call him Vanguard?
2) How many non-cults (real companies) have their most SENIOR EXECUTIVES pledge their lives to the CEO in sexual servitude while branding his name above their pussies?
3) How many non-cults (real companies) have their most senior executives & board members sing and dance on stage for the CEO, making fools of themselves in the process, while simultaneously calling him Vanguard?
4) How many non-cults (real companies) have their CEO instruct his executives to make sure that a woman never leaves her bedroom for over a year?
Does that sound like a real CEO? Or does that sound like a cult leader?
Suneel is choosing to willfully ignore any unflattering facts about Keith’s history.
This is CLASSIC CULT PROGRAMMING that we’re witnessing.
A cult member is not free to criticize his leader. While a non-cult member can say whatever he likes. Which category is Suneel in?
IMO, Suneel should volunteer to have his brain analyzed by experts —– cuz I’m sure it would be fascinating to learn how a Harvard Grad could fall under the sway of a lunatic like Keith Alan Raniere. There’s gotta be some short-circuited wires in Suneel’s brain that need fixing.
Have a nice day.
K.R. Claviger, I agree that the judge ending the cross of Lauren is the best leverage for an appeal, but that it falls short.
That suggests a Hail Mary ineffective assistance of counsel claim is the only hope.
As I understand it, Raniere would need to show that Agnifilo’s counsel fell below “an objective standard of reasonableness” (i.e., speculative Monday morning quarterbacking is not allowed) and that “an objectively reasonable probability that the outcome of the proceeding would have been different absent the ineffectiveness.”
I fail to see how Raniere could satisfy either criterion, let alone both.
I assume you agree…
Unfortunately for Keith, when you hire a high-priced legal team, the odds of convincing an appellate court that you had “ineffective counsel” go way down. So, “Yes”, I agree with your assessment that it will be very difficult for Keith to win an appeal based on a claim of “ineffective counsel”.
That said, I do think that Marc Agnifilo made several questionable decisions before, during, and after Keith’s trial. The problem is I have no way of telling whether those decisions reflected Marc’s professional judgment or Keith’s directives. I do, however, expect that Marc has documented every single time he did what Keith directed him to do when it was something that he disagreed with.
I don’t think Frank published the cross. Have to recheck.
NXIDVMDVM. Please explain why you think stopping the cross examination of a key witness is not grounds for a re-trial. Image the opposite scenareo; the prosecution was not allowed to finish their examination of Lauren because the judge didn’t like that she was upset by the questions, and the prosecution couldn’t get the key peace of evidence into the trial that it needed to make their case.
If you relied on your memory in making this comment, you need to go back and re-read the transcript from this portion of the trial so that you can see what really happened. If, on the other hand, you’re just throwing out statements that you know to be false, you don’t need to do that.
As I have already mentioned in a couple of prior comments, Marc Agnifilo (and the other members of Keith’s defense teams) had several optional courses-of-action they could have taken when this happened. Unfortunately for Keith, I don’t think they chose the right one.
On a 10-scale, this is, at worst, a 1 or 1.5 judicial error. But it’s most certainly not the level of error that will result in a new trial — especially not when Keith’s attorneys could have handled the matter differently.
This comment is either another attempt to defend Raniere via revisionistic twistings of what really happened in court, or the commenter is believing and has adopted false information and is writing from that position.
Every word of what occured during Agnifilo’s cross-examination of Lauren Salzman has been recorded, is seen and is known. Many of us were on the spot and heard Judge Garaufis instruct Agnifilo to cease his particular line of questioning with Lauren Salzman.
Agnifilo didn’t comply and kept going instead, ignoring the Judge’s order. Then Judge Garaufis interceded. This was on Agnifilo. Every word the Judge said then is on record as well.
Enough with the chatter from disgruntled groupies and/or culties with the obfuscations. Chimpanzee consciousness is busy picking through their very own lice, or is that LIES? Call it as you have seen it. Who is wearing blinders?
Pedophile. Just keep ignoring that rather important fact.
As for the rest of his stupidity…. let’s argue Suneel is 100% correct. Guess what – doesn’t matter. It’s not new evidence. It’s not enough to get a charge of misconduct and get the case tossed, re-tried or Raniere released. For a guy that claims to know the legal system….he really doesn’t know the legal system.
This is all just an amusing thought exercise, at most maybe useful for debate clubs in law school but little else.
I get it, Suneel is a NXIVM/Raniere believer so he has passion for the subject but it quite literally accomplishes nothing. Especially when he has no credibility when he just keeps ignoring the whole pedophile aspect like all the other NXIVM supporters (This is a red flag of who they are for those not paying attention).
Just to clarify: Suneel and Keith’s other supporters have two options: Option #1: Come up with “newly discovered evidence” that was not available or known about before now — and that would serve to exonerate Keith on one or more of the charges of which he was convicted (This would be the subject of a Rule 33 Motion); or Option #2: Identify errors that were made during the course of Keith’s prosecution that are so egregious they warrant the granting of a new trial (These would be the basis for an appeal).
Good point, their goal is to find egregious behavior, not new evidence. No choice as I do not see how they could find new evidence that would help their case.
But when getting into the weeds on semantics like he is doing here with definitions of pyramid schemes, he has already failed at the goal before it started. The court isn’t going to overturn for semantics. Especially not for these crimes. If the egregious-ness does not get at least close enough to also be a case for disbarment, they can forget about it.
Technically, Keith isn’t a pedophile. But if his victims are to be believed, such as Rhiannon and Cami (which they definitely should be), Keith suffers from hebephilia and/or early stage ephebophilia, not that I’m trying to defend him at all as they can be just as bad as pedophilia–I’m just trying to be more exact so that his followers don’t harp on the “fake” reporting due to this technicality–not to mention acting out on such urges is illegal.
Technically, Kieth isn’t a child molester?
Rhiannon and Cami beg to differ.
Apparently, you have a hard time with reading comprehension.
1. Definition of a child
A child is any person under the age of 18.
This is the international definition of “child.”
https://www.unicef.org/child-rights-convention/convention-text-childrens-version
So yes, he’s a child molester and pedophile and Rhiannon, Cami, and Heidi Hutchinson have testified to that.
Great response to Claviger. I commented on his article as lawyers at my company looked at it and they immediately told me he was not being objective. And I agree with your question at the end Suneel. Prosecution don’t need to lie ,make up anything or use hate to get a conviction. I don’t know Keith and there seems a lot of things went on in his life. He might be guilty or not, the prosecution by abusing power have brought this question for me. Either they are really bad at doing their job and they had to lie to convict a criminal or they couldn’t prove the crimes, either way it’s terrible! Justice system needs to be fair!
Perhaps do not allow Suneel to tell either you or your lawyer friends how or what to think, regarding exactly what occurred in court. In other words, start at square one and examine the trial transcripts for yourselves. Or have you made up the bit about knowing any attorneys?
Suneel has his agenda. Are you seriously taking him as a reliable source? Come on.
Anthony-
—I commented on his article as lawyers at my company looked at it and they immediately told me he was not being objective.
What company? Did you know Lawyers are lawyers because they didn’t pass the bar? Claviger is an attorney. All this does not matter because your making all of this up.
Somewhere out there, Claviger read your comment and laughed his ass off.
I straight up don’t believe you. Lawyers don’t do ‘immediately’ – professional rigour and the hourly rate militates against this. Also “…x is not being objective” it’s a bit…Star-trekky, whatever you do in your company, don’t offer to take care of any comms. and avoid script-writing.
I don’t believe him either. This comment section is starting to feel Scientology-like.
Get creative, sheep, and stop being so obvious. You’re starting to creep me out.
Amen NJ.
Nxians:
I agree there’s a huge need for prison reform.
From pulling battered women from their children and throwing them in jail, to lengthy sentences for non violent crimes.
Drug offenses? We need rehab, not prison.
How about employment rehab upon release, more humane conditions, etc.
I agree 100 percent.
But using Vanguard as a poster child is the wrong approach. Clammering in public about him is making both your cases weaker.
1. Offer help on the appeal
2. Link up with existing groups that have more traction.
My opinion.
The chart of Keith and Company looks more like a bullseye not a pyramid.
Yes. A bullseye where everything led. Keith started DOS and came up with the idea. Keith got all the sex and benefits from DOS. Keith should get all the punishment.
US Department of Injustice = Nazis
Keith Raniere = Jews
Never Again
Time for D-Day to liberate the concentration camps
Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr said
“One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.”
“A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law.“
“Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust.”
“Law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress.”
“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”
“That old law about ‘an eye for an eye’ leaves everybody blind. The time is always right to do what is right.”
“Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that.”
“An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law”
No. No. No. 6 million women, children, men tortured, murdered, starved to death, gassed, experimented on for being Jewish (and other atrocities) is not equal to Keith Raniere sitting in prison after a prolonged, really expensive jury trial. You cannot be so heartless and obtuse. Please stop making these comparisons. It is such a bad look for you Nxians. Wait until the Jewish groups get a hold of these statements. I will personally start forwarding them to the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Knock it off.
More human rights orgs need to know about Keith’s case. Unbiased people like Scott Adams see how there is bias and more every day. Jewish groups know best what happens when minorities get bullied. If Keith Raniere can be convicted, no one is safe.
Martin Niemoller said
“First, they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me.”
Why don’t you contact all those ‘human rights orgs’ yourself and offer the above as your introduction? Make sure to invoke the name ‘Martin Niemoller’ as often as you can, I think you already have an in with the World Jewish Congress, no?
It is said that karma will take you as far and as high as your evil hubris will allow. A lot of people recognise you crossed a maginot line here. And those who know are gathering with the knitting and the popcorn, even some misericordia, even some Kaddish, for what will come to you from your lies..
NFW
Thank you so much for this comment!
Anon,
All the very best to you.
A) Keith isn’t a minority. #2 so far the contact I have at the ADL is way more concerned about your holocaust diminishing and false equivalence about one convicted con man and his really expensive jury trial and 6 million dead Jews. Your anti-Semitic rhetoric is of more concern to them than your pedophile friend and his grievances about the legal system. Trust me this ” Keith Raniere = 6 million Jewish people killed in Nazi Germany” path is fraught with potholes & landmines and will not end well for you. Stop being hyperbolic, callous, disrespectful, and cruel.
Keith studied ALL religions Jewish Muslim Christian Hindu Buddist African Indian and saw biased emotions. He added maths physics biology psychology philosophy and created data from all of it. Keith teaches objectively NOT hate but some religions hate him because he shows there bias.
What exactly is ‘African’ religion? ‘Indian”? What ‘Philosophy’ did he add to these impossibly vague [meaningless] categories? – this along with all the other weak attempts at justifying the unjustifiable – simply embarrassing.
Wow. Are you really actually concerned there will be nobody left to stand up for people who sexually exploit children? Or commit identity theft? Or who think collateralizing and cataloging branded humans is a great idea? I don’t see the problem.
I agree with Suneel. If I hear pyramid or pyramid scheme I’m no longer thinking of them as well a company. Ive looked into it and the companies under the NXIVM name did not operate in a way that qualifies them as a pyramid. Simply having a hierarchy is what pretty much all businesses have. A president, a CEO, managers, bosses etc.
NXIVM/ESP — and every affiliated entity — operated as a “pyramid organization”: i.e, they each had one CEO – and several layers of management/bureaucracy.
Whether they all operated as “pyramid schemes” is a separate question — which would only be relevant if the prosecution described them as “pyramid schemes”.
Yes, May I add that most businesses sue the “f45k out” of their former staff and blackmail them into accepting to be branded with the shareholders’ initials right between their legs. What’s all this fuss about?? This is all so common like watching someone get multiple headjobs… most men do this several times a week… What’s the problem??
I don’t agree with everything Keith did but there’s so much objective fact and not emotion that the prosecution didn’t have a win unless it won by media trial. He’s treated just like the Jews by the Nazis its prosecutors who should be in concentration camp not Keith. Due process is fact not hate even if people don’t like someone
It seems that you cannot be made to understand that the persecution and murder of 6 million Jewish men, women and children being compared to Keith Raniere’s trial is beyond hyperbolic. It is deeply, deeply offensive. Please hold something sacred for once. Please find God. Religion if you need it. Or humanity of some kind. Anything. It is really hurtful to those who lost (in some cases all) their families, relatives and friends. I am asking all of you nxians out of any kind of empathy and decency you may possess. Stop comparing Keith Raniere to Jewish people during the holocaust. You go too far. Stop. You cannot be so blind and disrespectful. It is horrifying.
The media had NOTHING to do with the jury’s decision.
Prosecution use labels such as cult, pyramid and so on to bias the judge and the jury.
It is a strategy as well as allowing emotional reactions to prevent proper questioning from the defense.
Seems like the prosecution looks to win all the time, not achieve justice, and has the power and resources to do it.
If such is the case, why sent the accused to trial? Just make them guilty as the prosecution charges them.
This will save taxpayers a lot of money.
Most (not all) prosecutors operate exactly as you describe them: i.e., they push as hard as they can — within the established boundaries and limits — to convict defendants in criminal trials. And most (not all) criminal defense attorneys do everything they can (within those same boundaries and limits) to convince juries that their clients are innocent. That adversarial process is the core of our criminal justice system.
I agree that there are many aspects of the system that are in need of reform. In the meantime, however, individual cases — like Keith’s case — will be adjudicated within our existing system.
For those who are truly interested in getting a new trial for Keith, I suggest you start looking for “reversible errors” that occurred during his prosecution and trial rather than wasting time writing about what an ideal criminal justice should look like. And for those that are interested in building an ideal criminal justice system, I suggest you stop using Keith’s case as an example of what’s wrong with the current one.
I strongly and respectfully disagree Claviger. After speaking with lawyers at my office and showing them Suneel’s article and yours, they actually believe there is enough arguments for an appeal, and even a mistrial. Maybe I’m/we’re being too utopical but it seems objective for us who are not in criminal law. I understand your point however it looks heavily one sided. Could you comment on how Suneel’s/Keith’s aren’t reversible errors? For example, judge ending a cross-examination before the defense dismissed her. Wouldn’t that be one? I think so. Appreciate your response.
If you have lawyers at your office who are willing to render opinions on a case that is not their client, ask them your questions. Seems like you are just asking, asking, asking until you get the answers you want. That isn’t going to help your Vanguard. And it’s probably going to add to your cult-y obsessed vibe.
Have the lawyers at your office identify the specific reversible errors that they think occurred during Keith’s trial. I’ll be happy to review — and share my thoughts on — each of those. BTW, do any of those lawyers practice criminal law for a living?
As for the example you’ve chosen, let’s look at the facts:
– When the judge said “You’re done” to Agnifilo, Agnifilo had several options: (a) He could have disagreed – and asked for a short break before he continued. But he did not do that. (b) He could have said “Your honor, I agree this witness is in serious distress. I still have questions for her, so perhaps we can adjourn for the evening and I can continue tomorrow.” But he did not do that. (c) What Agnifilo did do is agree with the judge.
– The next morning Agnifilo could have moved to re-call Lauren to the witness stand (She was there and available). But he didn’t do that.
What Agnifilo did do is ask for a mistrial — which was promptly denied.
– Had Agnifilo asked to have Lauren brought back to the stand and been refused, any appeal based on that point would have had a much better chance of succeeding. Instead, by simply accepting Judge Garaufis’ruling and not recalling her, he essentially abandoned this as an issue — and pretty much guaranteed that the judge’s actions will not be found to be a “reversible error”.
– What’s really strange about this is that Agnifilo could have done both: i.e., request to have Lauren re-called — and also filed a motion for a mistrial based on the prior day’s events.
If you want to learn more about this topic, go to https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_611
Please tell me the names of these lawyers at your office, or just the office you work at, so I can be sure to NEVER seek to hire the services of any of those who work there if I ever run into any unfortunate legal situation that necessitates a good lawyer.
Anthony, true, you are definitely being ‘too utopical’.
Another well thought out, logical and clear opinion piece written by Suneel. Well done.
Hmm. To me, it reads like he thinks the judge, jury and public are feeble minded. If the scary word pyramid wasn’t used, everyone would have seen the child exploitation and collateralization of branded human slaves in a much better light!
Georgia gets it right: https://behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/financial-education-services-fined-1-million-for-pyramid-fraud/#more-61013 “FES violated the Georgia Multilevel Distribution Companies Act (MLDCA) by selling its credit repair products through a multilevel marketing scheme in which agents primarily earn money through the continued recruitment of other participants, rather than through the sale of credit repair products to non-participating consumers.”
Suneel-
Darlyne Dolap Opinion
Former Nxivm Memember:
https://twitter.com/darlynedolap/status/1349433740850708480?s=21
The only opinions that count are the judge and jury. And if it gets that far, the appeals court.
Anonymous-
If that’s true, Suneel should stop wasting his time. 🙂
Keith Raniere IS filthy. No need to ” irty up” that gross, smelly, pervy, old, rodent-footed man. I think the dirty, inside and out, took root in Vanguard many years ago.
“…Dirty up Keith Without Evidence”
Keith did a fine job of that himself by 1) creating a sex cult and labeling people within it “masters” and “slaves”, and 2) just being a morally decrepit, selfish individual who left a trail of victims in his wake…among other things.
DOS only.
Can someone explain why this was NOT a pyramid scheme?
I already explained DOS was/is an illegal pyramid scam. Case closed.
Crickets…
I answered, it wasn’t published.
Boohoo!
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE GETTING THE COVID VACCINE – THEY ARE KILLING EVERYONE!
https://www.bitchute.com/video/3HNDhDM1ehRQ/
Shadow – what does this have to do with the story posted above about the use of the pejorative term “pyramid”? Maybe there is a way you could find to publish your topical news.
Why do you keep publishing his comments?
He has been around a long time and very often presents worthwhile comments. I am trying to persuade him to stop posting political stuff that is irrelevant.
If you want to dissuade him, don’t publish it.
Frank, you are either dumber than you look or you think your readers are even dumber than you.
Killing everyone would mean everyone getting a shot is going to die from it.
Please get vaccinated then.
In a pyramid scheme, “The real profit is earned by participants, not by the sale of the product, but by the sale of new distributorships.” In NXIVM, most were told that the way to make money is to start your own downline of slaves and enrollees.
India Oxenberg even described it like that in “Seduced.” Describing NXIVM as a pyramid scheme is like describing a Ford car as a vehicle.
Yes, it portrayed NXIVM in a bad light, but that was just the truth of what it was. You can’t have slaves and then be upset because you get portrayed in a bad light.
Where did you get that definition from? It is wrong. A pyramid scheme is where the products and/or services are purchased only/mainly by the distributors versus outside non-distributor customers. NXIVM had a handful of people trying to make money, the remaining 17,000 were customers who never attempted to sell the courses to others, they merely behaved as a customer and purchased an expensive course or two and were never seen again.
In NXIVM, the term enrollee/student would be correct – not slave. Most of us enjoyed and benefited from the curriculum. Many were happy to take the next step and share it with those we cared about.
Just a clarification I wanted to add to this comment.
I’m unsure if the term slave should be applied to the other organization. I wasn’t there so I can’t comment first hand.
All the people who were in DOS acknowledge the master slave grandmaster nomenclature. It is on emails & texts. Sworn testimony.
A very eloquent, well thought out and logical expose of the power words have to push forward an agenda.
Sometimes, using words as a tool of persuasion is good, like in business negotiations, or helping your child off a tantrum or a coach/trainer helping an athlete.
Other times, words can be used as a tool to inspire fear, anger and prejudice. Mr. Raniere’s alleged crimes should speak by themselves. There is no need of adding charged words, like “pyramid scheme”, to prove the prosecution’s point.
I am enjoying these articles with opposing narratives. Thanks, Suneel, and thank you, Frank, for posting them.
Do talk about your agenda, Minerva. Go ahead and barf it all up.
Minerva, how do you suppose the downline recruitment is going now that the Grandmaster has solidified his place in the Guinness Book of World Records as The World’s Smartest Child Rapist™?
Care to share your thoughts about how hard it is for NXIVM to attract raw, young, unbranded flesh now that the brand is associated in the public mind with Scientology and Jonestown?
Any opinions about how frustrating it must be for the drinkers of Keith’s Koolaid™ to face the cold reality that President Trump is ignoring their plea for a pardon? That the only person willing to publicly support them is a wacko, minor YouTube personality? That Scott Adam’s statement of support was met with so much horror on social media?
What do you think about the real estate market in Tuscon, AZ?
Perhaps real estate prices in Tucson will rise when the ‘large’ Nxivum community relocates to Tucson and a second Nxivm-Albany is created. Think positive, don’t be discouraged by reality.
‘I am enjoying these articles with opposing narratives’
What your refusal to recognise truth does, is impose an infinite regression on the discourse. All you do is oppose – and truth be damned and dragged through endless malformed rebuttals. its like you’ve sprung from an infinite 3rd form debating society. Or some pervy old dude’s head.
Malignant Narcissists do not deal fair and square, they TRIANGULATE – and easily do so within a “PYRAMIDICAL” aka MLM illegal human pyramid environment such as NXIVM.
So, graphically, since I know how much you Nixers love to chart, you may want to draw a giant pyramid comprised of little triangles, then add the names.
Then shove it up whatever triangular space is handy bc at this point I don’t give a fuck which one of you blows your head off or takes a kayak ride to oblivion or gets cancer or poisoned, long as it’s not me, my son or anyone I know personally, or otherwise… but it’s not my job.
As Banger would say, “Toodles.”
You can’t talk sense to these people. They are not interested in engaging in conversation.
We tried. No go.
Someone came up with the hate mantra, and now they’re bombing this great blog.
What’s more annoying?
– Urinals fighting back by sprinkling pee on your legs.
– Suneel trying to change the narrative to make Keith the poor victim.
– Scott demanding that you come on his podcast, and calling you a libtard COWARD when you refuse.
– Flowers calling you a liar.
– Bangcock drooling over Niceguy’s wife, and Lauren.
– Not knowing if Claviger is male or female.
– Knowing Shivani’s comment is probably funny, but not getting it.
– Shadow posting another link proving Biden is a space alien who eats children.
– Your eyes tearing up because Frank redacted your comment.
– Frank and Joe playing Hardy Boys for the day and letting your brilliant comments decay.
You missed one:
– Someone calling themselves Nutjob who expects to be listened to.
Good boy. Way to play along. LOL Richard DeVos RULES ALL!
DeVos is dead.
But his company still tortures you. So is he truly dead?
” data” shows it to be all things Suneel as most annoying. And the run on sentence dude.
Urinals, hands down.
Did you need some guidance on how to avoid that?
Suneel, by a country mile, followed by the teary-eyed redaction experience.
“The prosecution believes they ‘need’ to apply this hate because it increases their chance of ‘winning’”. They knew that the jury will fit and feel then the were looking not for justice but feelings.
It was just insurance – how could the DOJ have predicted the entire courtroom would laugh out loud at Raniere when his texts about the taste of his sperm and size of his d!ck came up?
My nonserious opinion:
The DOJ has excellent experts on jokes. Everyone at DOJ had to laugh who heard about it. That made them realize that it would be the same in the courtroom. It’s just like tryouts for television shows.
Good points, Suneel!
I think the answer to Chakravorty’s last questions is unfortunate and the reason people should be asking for a re-trial. People often want to win at all costs and lose sight of the moral good they are doing within their job. A salesman can help a customer get what they want or can use any means necessary to get a sale. Two very different processes. I would hope that our prosecutors would like to pursue justice and not just win for purpose of advancement, power or political favor.
In an ideal world, many aspects of our current criminal justice system would be very different. But, we don’t live in an ideal world — and wishing and hoping otherwise is not going to help Keith get a new trial.
An ideal world doesn’t just happen. We have made it and, thus, and it’s up to us to change it, for the betterment of all.
The justice system was created by humans. It’s up to all of us, fellow humans, to steer it in the right direction, the direction of justice.
I agree 100% with your statement — which is why I work with several organizations that are focused on changing our criminal justice system via the development of new policies and programs. I also work with the staff of several elected state and federal officials who are also interested in making changes to the system through corrective legislation.
I do not see Keith Raniere’s case as one that will likely spearhead any significant changes to our criminal justice system because it has so many underlying issues and connections to issues that others interested in reform will find repugnant (e.g., the branding of women; the use of the legal system to punish those who left; the failure to pay taxes; the sex with underaged women; the illegal immigrants; etc.; etc.; etc.). Nor has anyone who is trying to help Keith get a new trial produced any real “evidence” to show that any specific legal standard was violated in his case.
I am not saying that Keith’s case did not have flaws. What I am saying is that many of those flaws are simply the norm in our flawed criminal justice system — and that other flaws were not properly identified as issues on a timely basis that could be raised on appeal.
I am reading here on and off. Thank you to all who take the time to add thoughtful responses.
Clavinger, I would be interested to know what type of case you think could spawn the significant change you spoke of. If not Raniere’s case, then what case? I believe you when you say you’re doing profound work elsewhere. That makes it all the more interesting with what you’re choosing to communicate and focus on here. I’m sure many people feel the same reading your comments versus another reader who is just calling people idiot zombies. Thank you for the time, but I am more curious about the next level of your analysis than I am about how right or wrong Suneel or Frank or anyone is.
Guilty or innocent, shouldn’t such an explosive/emotional case as this be the perfect breeding ground for change, assuming there was prosecutorial misconduct? It would seem to me that the more inflammatory the case, the better place to prove the point that the trial should still be treated fairly.
Take Keith out of it. Take the supposedly brainwashed people out of it. What elements of this trial should have been conducted differently regardless of how much we hate the guy? I’d love to know what other cases in the world have experienced similar issues, and what good people are doing to try to right those wrongs.
Thank you for your time.
I’m going to copy your comment — and work on my response over the weekend. You’ve asked thoughtful and thought-provoking questions and I want to respond in kind.
So, now with some more time to think about your comment — and your questions — here are my responses:
While it is true that Keith’s case has gotten more media attention than many other criminal cases get, that does not necessarily mean that it is an ideal case that can be used to push for needed changes in our country’s criminal justice system. To begin with, Keith’s case involves some charges and allegations that even if proven to be untrue, still raise a lot of suspicions about the defendant (e.g., Racketeering, Sexual Exploitation of a Child, Possession of Child Pornography, Sex Trafficking, etc.). The fact that Keith was indicted for these crimes and predicate acts confirms that a grand jury determined that, after reviewing witnesses’ testimony and other evidence presented by the U.S. Department of Justice, there was enough evidence to warrant charging him with seven (7) crimes (Racketeering, Racketeering Conspiracy, Forced Labor Conspiracy, Wire Fraud Conspiracy, Sex Trafficking Conspiracy, Sex Trafficking, and Attempted Sex Trafficking) and sixteen (16) predicate acts (Conspiracy To Commit Identity Theft: Ashana Chenoa, Conspiracy To Unlawfully Possess Identification Document, Sexual Exploitation Of A Child: November 2, 2005, Sexual Exploitation Of A Child: November 24, 2005, Possession Of Child Pornography, Conspiracy To Commit Identity Theft, Identity Theft: James Loperfido, Identity Theft: Edgar Bronfman, Conspiracy To Alter Records In An Official Proceeding, Conspiracy To Commit Identity Theft, Trafficking For Labor & Services, Document Servitude, Extortion, Sex Trafficking: Nicole, Forced Labor: Nicole, and Conspiracy To Commit Identity Theft: Pamela Cafritz)– and to justify having a trial.
I am not a fan of our grand jury system — but, per the Fifth Amendment, it is the system that our Constitution requires in cases involving federal felonies and other infamous crimes. And it was a grand jury that, after reviewing the testimony and other evidence that had been presented to it, determined that Keith should be indicted for the above-listed 7 crimes and 16 predicate acts.
To date, I have not seen any evidence — or heard any witness testimony — to support the allegation of “prosecutorial misconduct” in Keith’s case. Simply because federal prosecutors took advantage of what the criminal justice system allows them to do does not mean that they committed misconduct. That’s why doing things like calling NXIVM/ESP a “pyramid organization” — or describing DOS as a “sex cult” — is not going to get Keith a new trial. And even though I agree that some of the evidence that was introduced at Keith’s trial was irrelevant with respect to the charges pending against him, I do not think that any of that evidence was prejudicial to the point that it warrants a new trial for Keith (Extraneous evidence can be introduced by the prosecution to show such things as proof of motive, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, or absence of mistake).
So, if I were looking for an ideal case to use as the basis for seeking to make changes to the U.S. criminal justice system, I would look for one that had these characteristics:
(1) A defendant who did not have any prior incidents of negative involvement with the criminal justice system (Keith’s case did not meet this criterion);
(2) A defendant who had been charged with a single crime that did not involve any eyewitnesses (Keith’s case did not meet this criterion);
(3) A defendant who was not likely subject to other criminal charges (Keith’s case did not meet this criterion);
(4) A defendant who had an alibi — or an explanation as to what really happened — and was willing to testify before the jury (Keith’s case did not meet this criterion);
(5) A defendant who had a history of being an upstanding member of their community — and/or who had donated time to community projects (Keith’s case did not meet this criterion);
(6) A defendant who was employed in a job that other community residents saw as beneficial and/or necessary to their community (Keith’s case did not meet this criterion);
(7) A defendant who was known for telling the truth — and who could not be proven to be a liar on the witness stand (Keith’s case did not meet this criterion);
(8) A defendant who was well-liked by their neighbors, co-workers, etc. (Keith’s case did not meet this criterion);
(9) A defendant who had a record of success — all the way from grammar school, through high school and college, and on to their current job (Keith’s case did not meet this criterion); and
(10) A defendant who had never been found guilty of lying to a judge (Keith’s case did not meet this criterion).
In my ideal world, that’s the type of defendant that I would like to have if I were asserting that their trial and conviction had been a miscarriage of justice. Not having to worry about any of those factors would allow me to concentrate all my attention on the mistakes that had occurred from their indictment to their sentencing.
So, give me a widow who works as a full-time grammar school teacher while she raises her son and daughter, who volunteers as the Choir Director at her local church on weekends, who has been voted “Teacher-of-the-Year” four years in a row by the other teachers at her school — and who turned down the opportunity to become the Principal because she wanted to continue teaching in the classroom, whose only interaction with law enforcement is that she was once ticketed for not coming to a full-stop at an intersection 15-years ago, who is the Director of her Neighborhood Watch program, who always hands out full-size candy bars at Halloween, who organizes the neighborhood caroling group for the Christmas holidays, who got a rescue dog and a rescue cat for her kids, who often serves as a volunteer baby sitter for her neighbors when emergencies arise, who was charged with one count of homicide with respect to the homeless man who was found dead in her garden (He had been shot once in the head by a 30-30 caliber bullet), and who was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison (The primary evidence against her was a 30-30 rifle that had been recovered by the police about a mile from her house and then planted in her garage at the direction of an ambitious Assistant District Attorney).
That’s the case I want to use when I try to overturn basic elements of our current criminal justice system.
All kidding aside, Keith’s case is among the worst I can imagine for trying to bring about any major changes in our criminal justice system.
Who, except his most ardent followers and a few celebrities who may not know very much about the case, is going to devote the time and resources that will be necessary to get people interested in Keith’s “cause”? And who is going to finance what will undoubtedly be a very arduous and expensive process to get him a new trial?
Let me know if you have any questions about — and/or you need more information concerning — anything that I wrote here.
The Doobie Brothers, 1979. What a Fool Believes.
Doggy wanna rotten, no-good cookie? How about a kookie? Semi-coherency, designed to ignore any aspect of Raniere’s character or actions which would be too inconvenient for debate fodder or for this miasma of argumentatively impotent discussion.
Why not just breathe into a paper bag and get over yourself, Chakra boy? At least until you can educate yourself beyond the three notes which you keep piping, off in the fucking gloaming, this dim awareness, which po’ widdle chinless Suneel seems so devoted to inhabiting. So far, so tragi-comic.
Sorry about the chin. It simply looks so symbolic for someone using word salad to defend a pedo-perv, who fools believed.
Pyramid is clearly a trick to make something sound bad. It’s a pretty weak argument to state that it was not used like that. The argument would be better of with the truth, the prosecution used anything to dirty Keith’s name, one can even say that they believe in doing that kind of thing when someone feels bad enough to them. That’s a better argument.
I personally think that there are reasons to try to win at all costs, but I’m not sure this prosecution had any noble interest in doing that, maybe just a career advancement at whatever cost.
I don’t disagree that the term “pyramid organization” has negative connotations for most people. But as I already pointed out, that term is also used by academics and others to describe a certain type of business model — which means that it is not per se a pejorative term.
I do not recall Keith’s attorneys objecting to the prosecution’s use of the term — but, when I have time, I’ll go back and check the trial transcripts to see if that happened. I am certain, however, that Keith’s attorneys did not attempt to diffuse whatever negative connotations the term has by calling an expert witness to explain its non-pejorative meaning to the jury.
If Keith’s attorneys didn’t object to the use of the term — and they didn’t call an expert witness to explain what the term means to the jury — then there is zero chance that the Second Circuit Court of Appeals is going to grant Keith a new trial because of this issue. Keith and Suneel may think it’s unfair to let prosecutors use language like that to paint a defendant in a negative light — and if we were having a discussion about legal ethics, I would agree with them. But this discussion is about whether Keith is going to get a new trial because of this issue — and in that context, the answer is clearly “No”.
K.R. Claviger:
Yep, I concur, “Pyramid Organization” — which is a euphemism for “Pyramid Scheme” — is a loaded moniker.
Agreed — but since it also has a legitimate, alternative, non-pejorative meaning, it would most likely mot be considered as being per se pejorative. That is why it was incumbent on Keith’s attorneys to challenge the prosecution’s use of the term — or, alternatively, to present evidence regarding its non-pejorative meaning.
True!
K.R. Claviger, I just wanted to say in education, especially teacher-training, when we refer to ‘the pyramid/scheme’ we nearly always mean Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.
https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html
something I’m sure KR and Nancy would have known all about.
You have a warped, cynical view of other people. Maybe you experience all non-Nxivm followers as “outsiders” and are hyper suspicious? Or believe them to be inferior? Being in such an insular cult world also makes you present as very fragile. Keith is a filthy man. No need for anyone to sprinkle extra dirt on the very soiled Vanguard.
Suneel-
—Prosecution’s False Use of ‘Pyramid’ Was Meant to Dirty up Keith Without Evidence
You are 100% correct and I sincerely agree with you. However, we agreeing on a fact will not help Keith Raniere win an appeal.
Suneel, I believe you are a good person at heart. I am no longer going to be one of the commenters who ridicules you with ad hominem attacks. Take care.
I find this being the most compelling point: “If Keith is the criminal they claim, why not simply list, point by point, his criminal conduct and let the facts speak for themselves?”
I never understood why prosecutions paint people into being monsters. If they committed a crime, it doesn’t seem necessary.
I agree with the point you’re raising but in the world we live in, this issue is not going to get Keith a new trial — especially since his attorneys did nothing to refute the negative connotations that the term likely had for some/all of the members of Keith’s jury.
Why do you keep responding in the context of “he won’t get a new trial” because of this or that factor, when the point being made isn’t about that? [redacted]
The whole point of your continuing enterprise is to get KR a new trial. Throwing your toys out the pram won’t help you make your ‘point’ – which is…?
Key parts of KAR’s scam methodology was continually moving the goalposts, misdirection, distraction and deflection. They are just doing what they had drilled into their heads for years. It’s their only response to information or questions that don’t fit their agenda. Most of the time, I suspect they aren’t even consciously aware of what they are doing–it’s a reflexive habit. Like a dog chasing its tail, they think they are really onto something and can’t realize how comical they look from the outside.
It is funny, sad, and disturbing.
You don’t understand how the system works. It is the prosecutor’s job to make the defendant as bad as the judge will allow them and it’s the defense’s job to make the defendant look as angelic/innocent as the judge will allow them.
It’s called the adversarial/confrontational environment, it’s always been that way and will always be that way. You are powerless to change it so learn to understand it and live with it.
Should the prosecution have called them multi-level marketing businesses? Don’t structure your businesses this way if you don’t want them labeled this way.
Suneel – IMO, this is a waste of your time to be discussing this, OR it is part of the deflection long-game. We know Keith is an expert at playing the long game and certainly will have that as a major part of his desperation strategy.
Maybe if Vanguard had been more picky on choosing slaves and had played the long-game on DOS, he’d be free. Instead, he pressured his slaves to quickly fill their downlines (sorry, is downlines prejudicial?) and didn’t have all his slaves ride-or-die. Very sloppy, Keith.
If the DOJ wanted to be accurate, they would have called NXIVM a legitimate MLM, one of very few in the country, because of the level of retail sales to customers, and DOS an illegal pyramid scam, because the entire value chain was inside the network. Both also committed many other crimes.
I agree – how is Keith’s position any different than any other CEO?
It isn’t — which is exactly what Keith’s attorneys should have pointed out when the prosecutors first used the term “pyramid organization”. But, unfortunately for him, they didn’t do that — which means that from the appellate court’s viewpoint, it’s a non-issue in terms of any appeal.
The position may not have been different, but Raniere’s behavior was different, which would have destroyed Raniere’s lawyers’ credibility in the jury’s eyes. Not that you know much about credibility, because it won’t change the outcome of Raniere’s appeal, the single note you keep playing over and over again.
KR, I disagree here.
1. Are Nxivm and DOS basically alter egos? ( I don’t know the answer)
2. A ” pyramid scheme” has both a pyramid management and pyramid sales structure. They are different.
The way I see it, in DOS, the CEO initially used trickery, hiding his identity. He was management.
But the way the masters brought in slaves brought in masters etc that’s pyramid recruiting.. That’s where the scheme comes from.
This was in the judge’s sentencing report, and I agree.
In my opinion, its a no brainer for DOS and the recruitment for slaves.
For nxivm …up for grabs….but there’s the alter ego situation.
Do all other CEOs commit the various crimes Raniere was convicted of?
” how is Keith’s position any different than any other ceo”?
The branding, the constant thirst for vagina shots for blackmail, asking women to vow to only have sex with him, the woman kept in a room for 2 years, the demand to grow out your pubic hair, being a grandmaster to female sex slaves, keeping immigration documents from desperate people, forced Labor, child pornography.
A few of the ways he’s different…
I’d just like to add two of my favourites.
1. Running into trees: Of course, there was no intention of causing Frontal Lobe Damage, at all, at all,
2. Puddle-drinking: Not like a whole host of parasites and pathogens are a necessary outcome of this but it’s at least sufficient.
All things all told, the worst boss I ever had, we called her ‘gruppenfuhrer R.’ was bldy angelic. I feel bad about the ‘cheer me up’ post-it note on her back and joining in with the childish humming during her endless motivation speeches.
— her back and joining in with the childish humming during her endless motivation speeches.
Please share who “her is” if doable.
The gruppenfuhrer, having even less connection with Nxivm than me, does not deserve to be outed on the Frank Report. The point being, in comparison with the chief executive officer, Keith Raniere, our old bat was, in hindsight, not that bad. In fact, I might email her, see how she’s doing..does she need anything.. by way of an apology.
Great article, Suneel. I think your best point is if Raniere is such a criminal, why does the prosecution need to add insults to sway the jury? It seems someone would only need to do that when they are in a weak position.
Nxivm will be featured on an upcoming episode of, ” American Greed”. I don’t want to spoil the ending for anyone! I will just say they are more aligned with Claviger
The defense had the opportunity to call expert witnesses in to testify DOS did not operate as a pyramid.
Keith can’t now argue his case in the press.
This is from the judge’s sentencing report. Are you saying the part about recruitment is inaccurate? How?
“DOS was comprised of all female masters (who were Nxivm members) who recruited and commanded groups of all female slaves. When identifying prospective slaves, masters often targeted women who were experiencing difficulties in their lives, including dissatisfaction with the pace of their advancement in Nxivm. Each DOS slave was expected to recruit slaves of her own, who in tum owed service not only to their masters but also to masters above them in the DOS pyramid. Raniere alone formed the top of the pyramid as the highest master. Other than Raniere, all participants in DOS were women.
“Raniere’s status as head of the pyramid was concealed from all newly recruited slaves, other than those directly under Raniere. DOS masters persuaded slaves to join DOS by falsely describing it as a secret women’s empowerment group and that the goal of DOS was to eradicate weaknesses in its members. Prospective slaves were required to provide collateral to prevent them from leaving the group or disclosing its existence to others.”
“
Suneel:
Aren’t there texts of your Vanguard telling his slaves to bring him new girlfriends?
Wasn’t each slave supposed to recruit new ones and become their masters, and so on?
That sounds like a pyramid to me.
“Should the prosecution even be concerned about ‘winning’?”
Oh, I don’t know, Keith. Winning seemed pretty darn important to you.
“He who has the most joy wins!” ~ Keith Raniere
Perhaps that’s why Raniere lost most of his lawsuit cases, he enjoys losing and now he gets to lose the rest of his life. How much more joy could there be for him?
Suneel, the vast majority of your support on this site comes from your friends and other Raniere supporters. Don’t try to twist the facts to make it seem like you are convincing people with your arguments. Also, there is way too much emotion in your arguments and irrelevant rabble that I doubt Vanguard would be proud of this document.
If this is a guy who you say “may” be guilty of abusing women and was convicted of such, then you really need to look in the mirror and evaluate your “principles.”
Maybe there are better causes for your activism.
I’m curious, what facts do you perceive he “twists”?
Suneel!
You’re back!
Still looking forward to reading the results of your investigation!
You do a fine job here of relaying your guru’s hurt at having his endeavors described as a “pyramid organization.”
He’s feeling like a victim of the prosecution. Hopefully you reminded him of NXIVM Point #2: “There are no ultimate victims; therefore, don’t be a victim.”
I agree with you that this issue “is likely not sufficient grounds for appeal.”
I’d say it is even more accurate to say this issue “is not sufficient grounds for appeal.”
Can’t wait to read all your “data” that, unlike the “pyramid” matter, will provide solid grounds for appeal.
If you run into “The Crucible,” please say “Hi!” for me.
Abrazos,
NXIDVMDVM