By Bangkok
This is in response to Suneel Charkravorty’s My Plan to Show the World What Really Happened to Keith Raniere
This is a well thought out post, written by a very intelligent man; a man who’s probably a lot smarter than my good pal, Frank Parlato Jr., and a little bit smarter than my other good friend, Mr. Claviger.
Keith is not the evil monster that prosecutors claim. With that, I agree.
120-years was overkill. 25 years would have been enough.
But Suneel is confusing sexual immorality with sexual predation.
Sexual immorality is different from what Keith did. It’s not criminal.
For instance, I have a buddy who enjoys partaking in gangbangs and group sex at various sex clubs (including gangbanging married women). But this does NOT make him a sexual predator since the women who show up at these clubs do so voluntarily and for their own enjoyment (especially in Beantown).
What Keith did was different.
Keith created an elaborate plan to coerce women into a lifetime of sexual servitude by holding ‘blackmail material’ over their heads which, even if he never released it, would always serve to make them feel pressured to do what he says (under the IMPLIED threat of having that blackmail material released if they don’t comply).
So I say, FUCK YOU, Suneel.
Truth is, you’ve already COMPLETED your whitewash investigation. I can tell by your phrasing that your investigation has been completed already and you’ve found Keith innocent of all charges, LOL.
Truth is, you’re nothing more than Keith’s delusional wing-man —— trying desperately to CREATE A NEW REALITY where Keith might be set free and you might be rewarded for your unwavering loyalty at a time when everybody else fled the Vanguard.
Guess what, Suneel? He won’t be set free in your lifetime, bro. There are no rewards coming your way, sir.
Guess what else?
Your great-great-grandchildren (who aren’t even born yet) will probably be old men before Keith comes up for parole.
Keeping him under lock and key is the best way to prevent him from brainwashing any other gullible men (like yourself) into a life of idiotic servitude.
My best wishes, sir.
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
Please leave a comment: Your opinion is important to us!
Why does it seem so clear to you that it was under coercive circumstances? People voluntarily entered collateral which can be used as a tool to achieve something you didn’t. Also, these so-called blackmails had not been used by Nxivm. People had left DOS..not a problem. Presenting it as collateral and laying blame is the problem.
I wonder why you want to tell this to the world. Why not say it to Suneel in person? He would be more likely ready to see your point. If you believe what you say, then you don’t need agreement from the rest of us.
Agree
I find it strikingly parallel how the followers of Trump and people that worked for him are being treated identical to the NXIVM community. Now before you flip on a impulse to hate and continue your witch hunt of who still will stand up for KR…. the character destruction …it’s pretty identical in the process. Hmmmmm.
Forbes Says It’s Targeting Trump Staffers and Their Future Employers
https://www.newsmax.com/headline/forbes-targets-trump-staffers/2021/01/10/id/1004991/
-Again, what they report is NOT what happened.
-Again, videos showing otherwise to mainstream option are being hidden from the public or censored.
-Again, evidence is being tampered with, “ballot fraud” and again, no one is listening.
-Again, the people claiming they are “victims” are the ones doing the exact destruction they accuse others of doing to them.
Don’t try to lump divisive politics with vanguard. So desperate
I don’t need to try to. I did. And what is a desperate situation is the fact that you can’t see that *what I’m fighting for ultimately protects your right to object to me.* You have every right to object to the content, but you’re missing the most important point: *if there is no due process there is no opinion.* It’s like the book 1984. You’re welcome.
I have no gratitude for you. You are not serving in the military like my family or any honorable and legitimate brave act to protect our freedoms. And no real hero says, ” you’re welcome”. You are just a cult member who loves a pedophile. I get it. ” the heart wants what the heart wants”. But don’t try to be a martyr and glorify yourself. It is a very conceited, ugly look. Just be honest. Say, “The man I love may be a criminal. He may be a creep. But I love him. And I want him free. No matter how many children he raped.” But I guess you can’t make your self grandiose if you are honest. You are just another disgruntled prison wife. Nothing special. No one brave. No champion of justice.
I’m not falling for that. None of you ever cared about “due process” until shit hit the fan. Up till then, you were all chanting your vows to control all the money in the world and how there were no ultimate victims. Its pretty transparent.
Due process matters. People don’t understand the gravity of that.
It’s a valid comparison
Well said!
The Crucible,
I seek your opinion.
You clearly hold Suneel Chakravorty in high regard and indicate familiarity with his reputation.
Hypothetically, if Mr. Chakravorty were to engage in the discussion threads on this website, do you think he should identify himself openly, as do Frank Parlato, K.R. Claviger and Heidi Hutchinson?
If Mr. Chakrovorty were instead to obscure his identity using a screen-name, what legitimate purpose could explain that?
Obviously I prefer to maintain my anonymity and don’t begrudge anyone else doing the same, but I would find it suspicious if someone were to use their real name sometimes and hide behind a pseudonym at other times.
Your thoughts?
NXIDVMDVM
I only know that many members feel unsafe voicing anything that differs from “Keith is a sex predator” given the nature of how things went down.
So true
This probably would have had nowhere near its power if it wasn’t in these current times. How could it be anything else but a sex cult? It’s like people are drawn to the drama and sense of righteous morality but don’t look further.
Suneel is brave and is willing to put his name on the line to seek truth. He uses facts and reason to come to his conclusions. It’s an honor to see this type of writing. Thanks Frank for giving Suneel a much needed voice!
Follow his lead truthwillsetyoufree. Put your name on it. Be brave!
When you attack the person (who I might add did not write anything aggressive toward anyone with opinions that differ from his) rather than adding logical and evidence based facts to counter his points, it is very telling.
Agreed
Suneel asks to review specific charges.
He wants justice and due process, that is what every citizen deserves.
Suneel said clearly that he doesn’t know if Keith is innocent or guilty.
Bangkok your article shows. irony, mockery and hate. Full of labels.
That is violent and opposite to a civilized, peaceful way to relate among human beings.
I agree!
Your claim that Suneel doesn’t think his guru is innocent is directly contradicted by his own words.
On 12/28/20 Suneel published this on the Frank Report:
“I invite you to look at evidence, and look at the consistent abrogation of due process, littered across a thousand legal documents, and six thousand pages of trial transcripts. I propose to show that not only did the government break the rules, but, my friends, that Keith Raniere is innocent.”
“Many believe that John Adams was a prescient man for the ages. It is nice to see he encapsulated Keith Raniere’s situation almost to the letter. An innocent man should not be in prison.”
https://frankreport.com/2020/12/28/suneel-i-am-defending-raniere-because-the-prosecution-was-wrong-the-judge-biased-and-the-defendant-is-innocent/
So you either can’t read or you are bullshiting.
I think the latter is true, but admit the former is a real possibility.
And, yes, Anonymous, in this post I am mocking and labeling you.
If you think a comment you disagree with is violent and opposite of civilized ( do you mean uncivilized?) What do you think about holding women down and branding them? Child rape and porn? A woman in a room for two years? Starving women? Blackmail? Dropping your ” loved” partner’s corpse and laughing about it? Keeping immigration papers from people? Bragging about the free hours of work you will all get from your slaves? Forced sexual contact?
Note to Frank…
Because I believe myself to be a noble and pious person, I am changing my moniker here to Pious Bangkok —- and would appreciate being addressed as such.
Have a nice day. 🙂
‘Pious Bangkok’ I am sure we will all make a concerted effort to refer to you by your new gender neutral name. I hope you have great day.
It’s not important, but do you sit when you pee?
Why the anger and vitriol? It’s really not productive.
Sadly, we are often too unaware of our own anger.
Totally
Bangkok is nothing more than a scared little boy for not coming on you know who’s show.
Scott – Bangkok has said that he is impervious to insults and unafraid of bullying – so I am good with publishing any manner of attack on Bangkok.
Sure I’ll talk to 🛵 , Frankie if you got a walkie-talkie I can borrow 🙂
You don’t need to borrow a walkie-talkie, Scott can be contacted at http://www.Facebook.com/ScottTexJohnson Send him a message, unless you’re just another blowhard coward.
Oh thank you, master. I am not worthy.
Scott-
Are you lonely? You always want one of us to call into your show. I wonder if you know anyone to call in besides strangers. Any friends?
I’m a man, not a scared boy. Tee-hee! I’ll be your friend if you pay me. Hell! I’ll even let you talk dirty to my wife on the telephone, provided I can charge your credit card…Then you can finally hear the words “you’re sexy” from a real woman 😉
Willie, you have the same mean propensities as Nice Guy does when it comes to Scott.
Mean? I call it foolish and harmless. But he does share one characteristic with NiceGuy 666, both of them are too scared to call Scott.
Frank,
I am appalled by your rash snap to judgement in assuming I am the commentator who made such rude remarks
At 12:20am my wife was left alone with my cellphone in the kitchen. It could not possibly have been me. I was in the living room reading.
You’ve gone to far this time you dastardly knave Parlato.
In defense of Willie, niceguy and myself for chuckling at this post, Scott has a propensity to cause others to display this propensity towards him.
Frank the guy just offered the services of his wife for ‘telephone talk’. How is it rude?
Don’t be such a prudish bore. 🙂
Look here, G. Gordon Liddy—
This is all your fault for pointing out it’s Scott.
Go back to stroking your willie. I am far from lonely. I only want guests who can add to the conversation or I can expose for being stupid. I have plenty of friends but they generally don’t meet the above criteria to be a guest on the show. You’re not a man, or I would have already received a message on my Facebook page, little scared boy.
You’re messed up dude. Just realise the negativity your spreading. It’s not helping anyone. Grow up. Take responsibility for your life.
My understanding of the trial is that the only people to ever blackmail or release collateral was Mark Vicente and the government.
Well, I’m sorry to be the one to tell you but your understanding is incorrect. Please cite specific testimony or evidence which indicated that the government blackmailed anyone or that Mark Vicente released any collateral — and I’ll respond to those specifics.
Yup, I heard that too…a woman even left DOS in 2016 and no collateral was released, nothing ever happened to her, she went on with her life…actually no collateral was ever released for anyone…only the prosecution, media and Sarah Edmondson took the liberty to release collateral…oh, and 2 women stole others collateral before they left…
Jessica Joan said she gave him the collateral, and he gave it to the government. So for the record, the only people who have released collateral were the supposed “victims” in this case. It’s a total inversion of justice.
Are you suggesting it was the U.S. government that released the videotape of Sarah Edmondson’s branding ceremony?
Then you misunderstood. Sarah Edmondson. Branding tape. Which Keith labeled on recording as ” collateral” was released.
And so the question then is who released the only piece of collateral? Was it one of the women who left the Sorority and stole other’s collateral? Was it Sarah Edmondson herself? Was it one of the “victims” who were threatened (aka blackmailed) by the FBI to share it OR ELSE….? The secret Sorority existed for nearly 3 years before the NY times article made it public. Until that point, there were no problems or complaints. No collateral released.
It’s also interesting that no further collateral got released after all the trials etc. I mean many of the “victims” were responsible for A LOT of damage…I imagine the prosecution and media would have paid anyone a lot to get their hands on it…but somehow collateral of around 100 women has been kept safe and unreleased.
I don’t believe you. And your arguments are a moving target. 1st you say the branding tapes were not collateral. Then, when it is proven from Keith’s own mouth that they were to be used as collateral, you never acknowledge trying to push a lying narrative previously and conveniently switch arguments. You have proven yourself not credible. You also won’t put your name on your claims. Because you are ashamed. You won’t admit your previous claims were fraudulent. So you lack integrity. Your attempt to spin Jessica as a bad guy is vile. She was brave. And smart. Good for her. It wasn’t a “sorority”. It was a master-slave relationship. You are fooling no one but yourself. What kind of people demand blackmail from their friends? If someone chooses to break their word for any reason (especially when they have been deceived), it is their right. So, good for Jessica. She realized it was a demented, criminal, sexual slavery ring. Not a “sorority”. It was a deranged version of a 5th-grade “friendship contract” except in this nightmare version you find out your friend wants you to fuck her dad with her. The right thing to do is run, take evidence. And tell. Jessica is a hero!
I think a lot of people aren’t willing to take that in cos they made up their mind.
That’s my understanding as well.
Once again, Keith is recorded. His voice. His words. The branding tapes would be used as “collateral”. Sarah Edmondson’s branding tape was released. It played on TV. It was gruesome. How do you people comment with any authority and with no accurate information? The “data” is available. It reads like willful ignorance on the part of anguard’s supporters.
Sarah Edmondson had her collateral released.
Actually, no one’s collateral that was in the possession of anyone involved in DOS was ever released to the public by anyone who was in DOS. Very important to get this fact correct.
So you are alleging the government released Sarah’s tape? Which governing body? Where is the proof?
What I do know is what I said before: No one’s colateral in DOS was ever released by someone who was in DOS.
I also know, because it’s in the trial transcripts, that Jessica Joan stole other women’s collateral and gave it to the government.
Do you know where all the remaining collateral is now?
Can you help former DOS members get their collateral back?
Can you ensure that no copies of any collateral were ever made?
How did the video of Sarah’s branding get released then?
Was it the elves or the fairies?
I would agree with this statement! The prosecution as well as the media wanted to believe that KR did and was a certain way. So they ignored many of these statements and proof that KR was not bad intended. It’s important for people to see, how what is happening to Trump now, is no different than what happened to KR.
Ohhhh! Your leader told you to bring up Trump!!! Tricky. Tricky. And not gonna work.
In deed!
Seems like it
Either Raniere supporters are delusional or not. Comments like Bangkok’s attacking them before they’ve made their case is a weak look. If they are delusional, I’m willing to let them demonstrate it to the world.
Rabbit-
There are two sides to every conversation. And then there is Bangkok…The 3rd side. Sometimes the “kid” (age and sex unknown) makes some interesting and valid points. Usually, he just pisses people off, but it’s okay because he’s funny.
Well said. I agree
The ones I know are brilliant, kind, caring, compassionate people. Normal and flawed like everyone else. Trying to do good.
Bangkok’s opinion in this post is full of anger and hate. I wonder if he would be open to have a dialog with Suneel. I hope he does as I don’t see anything wrong with Suneel’s article. If he is wrong, it will probably be hard for him as it is clear he appreciates Keith. If, on the other hand, he is right, then there’s much more to question beyond Keith’s case.
I think Suneel brings up excellent points. The reason he and his friends are attacked is because we as a society are afraid to look at certain things. What would it mean if they are accurate even on some of their points? It’s scary to think we can’t trust the media not to twist things far past recognizable reality. It’s scary to think the “whistleblowers” were lying. And above all, it’s down right shattering to think our criminal justice system is corrupt to the point of prosecutors committing multiple crimes to craft a story that is untrue and to have a man imprisoned for life and likely killed there. I, for one, find it scarier to ignore these questions. I believe we are all better off when we seek out truth with evidence and a desire to find the cold hard facts.
I’m not afraid. Or a scared. Or shattered. If you are that sounds like a tough thing you are going through. But it is important to speak only for your self. Not others. Hope you heal from your trauma.
The federal courts weren’t and aren’t afraid to look into the abyss of federal inmate 57005-177’s and his follower’s crimes.
It scares him and his followers to know he’ll be spending the rest of his so-called “life” in federal prison and that NXIVM’s brand is on par with a herpes-encrusted, Ebola-infected dog turd.
Anyone who has stepped in that dog shit is tainted.
Everyone who has even so much as taken a NXIVM course would be wise to denounce it and run as far away as possible, as fast as possible.
Remember NXIVM point #2: There are no ultimate victims; therefore, choose not to be a victim.
Completely agree here – the downside to ignoring these injustices have much greater and dangerous implications. At worst – nothing happens and at best, innocent individuals are released and terrible corruption is exposed.
Men are released from long term jail sentences due to prosecutorial negligence all the time. There are many Innocence Projects that address misconduct and unequal sentencing practices. One example is the possession of coke by a White person and possession of crack by a Black person, same drug, different sentencing.
None of the Warrior$ For Justice cared about the prison industrial complex and our corrupt justice system before a wealthy white Jewish cult leader finally caught up with the justice he previously bought off for decades. The folks at NXIVM know exactly how corrupt the justice system is because, without that corruption, their little pyramid scheme wouldn’t have lasted this long.
Keith will never get out of jail because he’s guilty. There are many in prison who are innocent.
There are women serving life sentences for killing their abusers in self-defense. Get busy and work on their appeals and others that are too poor to pay every degenerate high-priced lawyer willing to put in the time.
The insincere ignorant and privileged calls for a man with millions at his disposal for his defense, while thousands languish without charges are laughable and infantile in their understanding of inequity.
NXIVM appears to be the lint trap for mentally defective Ivy League fuckwitts.
Not sure why Suneel’s statement about investigating the case further has inspired an article that is firing so much negativity and hate his way (a straight-up, “fuck you”). If you look at Suneel’s entire article, and everything he’s written on the matter so far on this blog, he’s never attacked or used defamatory language. And yet, those accusing him of wrongdoings are throwing daggers…I don’t necessarily have a strong opinion about the content of this case either way, but what I am noticing is that people who don’t like these NXIVM people seem really angry and quick to defame people’s character, even with profanity at times, and so far since I’ve started reading this blog and seeing followers of Keith write like Suneel and Eduardo, I’ve not seen them attack anyone. They raise a lot of questions, yes, some that make me wince, but I never get the sense that they’re calling people out of their name. I’ll take a page out of their book for that.
They do attack people. Maybe you like their style more. But they accuse people of lying. They blame the victims. They have accused the jury of serious misconduct with no proof. They maligned the prosecution and judges for doing their job.
They call anyone who disagrees with them full of ” hate”. They never directly engage or back up any of their claims with proof. They disregard ” data” given to them over and over. They speak in negative generalities about commenters. I could go on and on. That behavior warrants push back. It’s a one sided view you present you are as ” biased” as anyone.
Why people are so negative about an organization that systematically planned, organized and abetted child trafficking, rape, pornography, and slavery (for starters) is beyond the comprehension of people who have had their critical thinking skills debilitated by NXIVM indoctrination.
This is why the NXIVM true believers will only succeed in making their “Vanguard” and themselves look like despicable scumbags the more they try to rehabilitate his and their own public images.
Paradoxical, eh?
Very!!!
To Suneel’s supporters…
I am here to build bridges, not walls.
We can ALL be on the same side and work together. 🙂
*But first, you’ll need to get de-programmed from your NXIVM brainwashing.
We CANNOT all be on the same side IF you’re still worshipping a short, chubby guy with SQUARE, RODENT-STYLE feet.
The rest of your life is right in front of you. Please open your eyes to see it.
Don’t waste any more ‘years’ holding out for the day when your short, chubby Vanguard returns home.
It takes a mature person to accept the harsh reality that their Vanguard isn’t coming home.
Here’s how his appeal will end…
Please realize that EVEN IF the appellate court rules that the sentence was too long, which they very well might, the judge will STILL be free to sentence that fat fucker to 20 years —– and he’ll still be in prison until he’s 80 years old.
So even in a best case scenario, the SAME judge is gonna sentence Keith again —– and he’ll still give Keith 20 years.
And guess what? He’ll probably be within the sentencing guidelines, which means Keith will be 80 years old when he gets out.
At 80 years old, his balls won’t work anymore and his pecker won’t be able to get stiff.
For all you readers from Mexico, what I’m saying is that Keith’s PITO will no longer be PARADO.
EL PITO DE KEITH NO ESTA PARADO
His dick will be flaccid. No NXIVM women will want him anymore.
Even Nicki Clyne won’t want him anymore once he’s totally flaccid.
Keith’s future is over. The fat lady has already sung.
But there’s still good news for you cuz it’s not too late to get de-programmed. Frank can put you in touch with some anti-cult doctors to help you recover. They can fix the short circuited wires inside your brain.
Life is always better when you’re not worshipping a short, chubby guy with rodent feet.
Have a nice day.
*Although my Spanish is quite limited, the word “PARADO” has several meanings —— and one of those meanings translates to “upright” or “standing up” (as in ‘erect’).
The phrase PITO PARADO roughly translates to “PENIS STANDING UP” (or “erect penis”)
🙂
Bangkok, I’m curious. How do you know what Keith’s bare feet look like?
Anonymous 8:35 am……..You asked so here it is:
https://frankreport.com/2018/10/01/allison-macks-feet-compared-to-keith-ranieres/
I just find a very clear difference between this article and Suneel’s: the first one is a fear filled opinion where insults are being thrown at someone and the second is an article written by a man who has done a lot more research than any of us here (with hints of where his investigation has taken him).
What’s wrong with, eventually, facts being presented that can help all of us understand the truth better? Why hold on to radicalized and slanted narratives?
We are all better for more truth and more data focused perspectives being shared with the world.
A surmise, not a statement of fact:
If federal inmate 57005-177 allows someone to post as “Minerva,” it would seem they would need to be in his inner circle.
Minerva, you are not the decider of who has researched, never mind of what, specifically, anyone else has researched. You have disqualified your entire comment with your own presumptuousness. Surely you can come up with something more viable. Or perhaps not. This is a kind of demonstration of unawareness, of even what you are saying, which even the eyes of a 10-year-old can see. I read this comment over to my grandsons and waited for their thoughts about it.
The first thing our eleven year old said was, ” How does Minerva KNOW what other people have studied? That cannot be true.” How to think is more crucial than what to opine. You give incongruent conclusions, based upon fictitious judgment calls, which are based upon nothing except for your lack of thoughtfulness and its subsequent, temporary conclusions. Conclusions about whom? Really. For the love of God. Look to the self. It is all anybody has. Time for a tune-up?
Exactly.
NXIVM reduces peoples’ thinking skills to below that of elementary school students.
People have paid $$$ for such debilitation.
To Bangkok:
1) What specifically in the logic and facts that Suneel speaks of is delusional?
As far as I can see, the points proving Raniere was convicted without any legitimate evidence IS the missing point of your delusion. I’m guessing you would only need to express hate towards Suneel if you feel threatened by the message.
2) Why would you need to say hateful things to the messenger, Suneel? What in the content of his article incites your personal attacks?
3) You say that your buddy who enjoys partaking in gangbangs is not a sexual predator because the women show up voluntarily. Why are you twisting the fact that the women in DOS not only joined voluntarily but went through a great deal of effort to do so? I heard the sex wasn’t even part of DOS anyway.
What specific facts does he prove? Where does he present logical arguments?
What we’ve been from Mr. Harvard so far is a list of questions and topics that he claims to be researching.
It is obvious to anyone outside of the NXIVM thought bubble what conclusions federal inmate 57005-177 and, therefore, his scribe have come to.
If it was obvious, why would you need to say it is?
Hate is so shallow. So meaningless. So boring. Outpouring the same repeated hate statements, over and over with no substance or critical thought to back it up. No evidence to secure the points, just the same boring attacks to a person’s character or behavior. Sincere questions from critical thought are met with the same shallow ridiculous ridicule. When you watch a horror movie over and over again it doesn’t take long for it to be funny and then….boring.
As far as I know, Harvard’s reputation for development of critical thinkers is good.
A surmise, not a statement of fact:
If federal inmate 57005-177 allows someone to post as “The Crucible,” it would seem they would need to be in his inner circle and are likely a man.
The Crucible is clearly very sensitive to criticism of Mr. Harvard.
The Crucible needs to review the use of definite articles.
Perhaps The Crucible will grace us with resounding testimonials from those who have benefited from Mr. Harvard’s stellar “critical thinker” training.
Is the lack of self -awareness eponymous? I doubt you’ll dim nxidvmdvm’s bright and incisive wit
by insisting you don’t see it, which, once again, paradoxically… etcetera..
I agree! Vanguard’s flunkies never back their claims with proof! They just parrot the same nonsensical claims and say hateful things about the judge, jury and prosecution. Whom they do not know at all. It is so boring! And they never explain why they support child molestation, kiddie porn, immigration fraud and the rest.
Oh my goodness! How can you possibly believe that hate is shallow, meaningless, and boring? Hate is a totally normal response to behaviors that harm people!
We don’t have to hate the person but hate is a very helpful, normal and motivating response to dealing with malignant behavior. For example, do you really think people who bust pedophile rings do their job because they enjoy seeing video footage of little kids being raped? Because I would wager that they actually hate knowing such things happen to innocent children and that they hate the thought of one more child being harmed. Hate would be the motivating factor that helps these people endure the pain and emotional anguish they must feel as they try to put an end to the malignant behavior.
I don’t really know how to put this politely but it really seems that supporters of this Vanguard are wrapped up in some kind of fantasy world. I’m concerned that you’re out of touch with reality and losing your humanity. Victims really do exist and hate is not meaningless.
Maybe people who don’t know Keith are the gullible ones, the ones who believe what they hear in this massive elaborate game of “telephone” (a.k.a. the media) where a he-said-she-said chain of interactions turns into a flaming insurmountable forest fire of hate and prejudice, with a storyline that has completely mutated over time.
Maybe those closest to the source, such as Suneel, know what the f*** is actually going on, and are more credible sources of information and more familiar with Keith’s actual intent.
Nah. Probably not. They didn’t even know about a secret group of over 100 women in their own close-knit, insular community. Or a woman kept in a room for 2 years. Or multiple brandings and abortions. Or did they?
👍
Maybe those closest to Keith, like Suneel, actually know what they talk about??
Maybe the ones closest to the source, like Barbara Bouchey, Toni Natalie or Kristin Keeffe and all the other women used by Keith, knew what the f### they were talking about.
Are the once mentioned also credible sources? Would you consider them, more familiar with Keith’s actual intent?
Most of the women were a lot more “familiar” with the source, then Suneel will ever be. And yet they tell a different story.
Any thoughts on this comment?
To Jeroen –
Bangkok called Suneel gullible and delusional.
Here are some points to consider.
– Being far removed from the source, hearing things through the media, is one way the truth gets distorted. In this case, I believe it’s the general public that is gullible. And not seeing clearly.
– Blame is a powerful drug. Especially when an intimate relationship ends. When we blame, we are not willing to see the truth clearly. When we are not willing to see the truth clearly, we are delusional. When we are delusional, there is simply no room for being rational and seeing clearly. File under: “Does not compute.”
– If you think the above points are reasonable, then you can imagine how there are many other ways our judgment is fallible. There are many ways we can blind ourselves.
I don’t personally know the women you mentioned and can’t speak to their character.
I would say, contrary to Bangkok, that the points Suneel makes are very rational.
To ABCD,
First of all, thank you for responding.
I agree with you that when relationships end, there can be all sorts of emotions.
Blame can be one of them.
But not everybody reacts in the same way. You claim here that the ones I named all were just vengeful and sad women, whose last resort was to blame Keith/Nxivm. I think, the facts, tell a different story.
It’s true I’m not nor ever was anywhere near Keith or anything/anybody related to Nxivm.
This doesn’t disqualify me or my opinions.
We are talking about simple logic here.
If Suneel possesses knowledge because he is in the inner circle and he, therefore, should be regarded as more knowledgeable, then the same goes for others. Being in Keith’s inner circle is a qualification for being reliable.
I had my own experiences in a similar scheme, like Nxivm.
In my case, I was the whistleblower. Was I wrongfully treated? Not really.
It was the way we all were used.
It was us against the outside world. The lying press etc., etc
They were all just envious of the success of our director/leader.
In the end, all these scams end in the same way.
When the call comes, the choices are: follow the leader or be a suppressive.
I spent over 10 years with those people.
But I had to “betray” them, as some of them called it.
Why? Because I was lying to myself. We were not making the world a better place.
Did we, in the end, do something criminal? Not really.
How could we? We were part of the Dutch justice system.
But morally? Ethically? For some things that happened, we deserve a place in the darkest corner of Dante’s hell.
A question. If you are right and everybody who once belonged to Nxivm (inner circle) and are now advocating against Nxivm, is only out there to blame Keith/Nxivm?
Doesn’t that make Keith a poor judge of character?
By the way…. is blame a drug? And, aren’t we all on the “blame train”?
I mean Keith is blaming everybody for his current situation. Couldn’t he be “high” from all the blaming lately?
You blame me for being too far away from the case to have a qualified opinion. And I blame you for not practicing what you preach. And so on, and on.
It’s time for people like the nxivm 5 to start engaging. Not only writing statements. But to be among, people who have questions. Seek dialogue or even might have some answers. It would be so much more helpful for everybody.
The Nxians hide behind a wall. A wall called ethical behavior. And only they are guarding this wall.
They ask for it all the time after promising to engage on comments, but the only comments they will respond to are the ones they approve to be ethical.
I know it’s not easy what I am asking. Stories like the ones about Damon Brinks and such would make anybody reluctant to talk.
But if you see any other way, I would love to hear it. I mean this sincerely.
This thing they are doing now will lead nowhere. It will not set Keith free. And it won’t sway opinions.
If they want to be heard, they first have to sway opinions.
In 2021, that means being present at the battlefield. Concerning Nxivm, the Frank Report is the frontline.
And again, not only with (boring) long statements. But actively engaging.
Like you do now.
Love to hear from you. A warm greet from cold Holland
Bankok, What about the post do you consider that is well thought?
What is the criteria that you are using to evaluate the author’s intelligence?
In my opinion, this post does a good job of using bullying tactics and making wild assumptions.
“What about the post do you consider that is well thought?”
Nothing, It merely demonstrates the ability to transcribe the words of his “Vanguard” and type them into an email to the Frank Report.
“What are the criteria that you are using to evaluate the author’s intelligence?”
Garden variety common sense and a bare minimum of human decency.
NXIDVMDVM, my questions refer to this post that attacks Suneel.
As do my answers.
I agree with the comments here that this post is filled with anger. If the case was indeed fair, why is there any resistance to examining the facts and the nature of the trial? Why the need for ad hominem attacks on someone raising good and fair questions?
The only place that matters is in a court. No one here can help Keith. This is a public relations attempt. If you try to paint a convict cult leader as a victim, you must expect some push back. Toughen up! Maybe you need to join a bad-ass sorority?
Probably because they’re in defense of a convicted felon that destroyed many lives. It makes people grumpy.
I agree that Suneel might already have done his investigation but the questions he raises are good questions. Regardless of how much society hates someone, like a Keith Raniere, these are important questions to be asked. And if the answers to any of those questions shed light on a prejudicial trial or crimes by the prosecution, that should concern us all.
This is a great post. Suneel is beyond delusional but also immoral at this point. Women are not treated like babies as they will have you believe. I agree with everything except him saying Keith only deserved 25 years, I thought his sentence was fair.
Reminds me of The “Free Hat” episode of South Park.
Hey David, can you tell me specifically what Suneel is delusional about? I’m pretty impressed by all the evidence showing the injustice.
I have known other companies where people are doing very progressive and innovative things, building humanity, curing cancer, etc., and those companies ended with the same scenario …that the leader is accused of being a pedophile. Seems kinda fishy to me, like the accusation is meant to cover up the government injustice or criminal activity.
With NXIVM, it seems some of the acts are immoral, although I’ve heard all the women wanted what they asked for… and Keith wasn’t involved.
Have you watched the movie “Frozen”? It’s about a guy that raped, chopped up and chased women naked in the remote wilderness of Alaska, hunted them down and then butchered them like a wild animal. I don’t think he got more than 25 years. Not sure what Raniere got was fair. Will watch the South Park episode.
Robert Hansen was sentenced to 461 years AND life in prison with no parole.
I know, Elsa! They just lie and lie. They never acknowledge being wrong or deceitful. Keep calling them out! Well done.
The power of the media has certainly taken control over a weak dependent society.
Hard to read so much hate in this post. Frank, do you allow for direct attacks on your posts but you condemn commenters to not do so?
I find that very inconsistent on your protocols. It is sad that even Bangkok, who seems to believe Keith got an unfair trial and unfair sentence, is missing out on the injustice and focusing on things like sex “crimes” and “brainwashing”. Please no more posts with so much anger and hate.
If we are serious about the case, we should be looking into the injustice of the trial and what is Keith guilty of if anything.
Frank, please explain the purpose of this article? I don’t get it? Bangkok is just being rude and insulting and not actually making any sound arguments or adding anything to an interesting discussion.
If nothing else, it gives Suneel a fertile field in which to reply. I always looked forward to Bangkok’s insults and attacks on me since it gave me an opportunity to respond.
Does this signify that if I attack you, dear Frank, that is the only way for me to get a rise out of you? How to rise from insignificance, eh?
First, please send me some roses. Why not, really? I was born feminine. Is that embarrassing these days? Roses are beautiful messages from heaven. I won’t mind at all if you feel like sending me some. Then some starting gun might go off. Yet it could all be for nothing, since I have loved you longtime already. Just the way you are. Roses or no roses. To me, you’re a real beauty and a good, good man. With guts and a big heart. I won’t tell anyone. Nuttin.’ I just love to flirt. And you are always so much fun.
Shivani, I’m flattered. As you and Nice Guy know, Bangkok is, of course, deplorable, and proud of it, while you are a consistent beam of sunshine on this website.
If Bangkok self identifies as a woman, I would imagine sending butterfly weeds. I’d send you roses.
As for compliments, I’d do as Chesterfield advised, I’d compliment both of you for your intelligence. Bangkok because the ugliness of his physical person is likely to be so pronounced that to tell Bangkok ‘you’re beautiful’ would appear to be a callow lie. You, on the other hand, I imagine, are probably so accustomed to hearing praises of your looks, that it would be tedious to hear it again.
So you got a rise out of me.
How did I miss this, and how has nobody else commented on it?????
My initial thoughts:
1. Somewhere hanging out at a Thruway rest area catching up on FR, Nancy is PISSED OFF jealous.
2. I hope Frank doesn’t get demonetized for his final thought.
3. I’m thinking the first date should include a movie, a walk on the beach, and some mushrooms.
4. Since the conversation seemed to end, I’m guessing Frank didn’t display enough game? Or is there an awkward off-the-air conversation going on?
Shivani thinking to herself – “Why does Frank keep talking about Bangcock? Is this about ME, or Bangcock???”
Frank thinking to self – “Why am I rambling on about Bangcock????”
Shivani thinking to self – “Am I getting the roses or not???”
Frank thinking to self – “Play it cool. Play it cool. How can I get her address to mail roses?”
I don’t agree with this attack on Suneel. If it is, indeed, a heartfelt attack, I suspect it is a direct result of someone taking advantage of your fears and your unwillingness to examine them.
If the attack is just a calculated article to incite hatred, well, I hope people can see through it.
So, Polaris — by your logic, nothing Bangkok says regarding Keith has any validity unless it is positive.
So, you are using the Kindergarten postulate-theorem: “I am rubber, you are glue, whatever say that’s bad bounces of me and sticks to you.”
You’ve showed-up Bangkok. (Sarcasm)
Anyone critical of Keith is inciting hatred. So is Keith now Christ or Muhammad?
Niceguy and Bangcock sitting in a tree…
Come on niceguy – you know as well as anyone that bangcock IS hate. Bancock does nothing but try to get reactions by using hate. You calling out these poor offended newbies who don’t know bangcock from Flowers, is not the most sincere I’ve seen you be.
NutJob & Polaris,
Polaris, I sincerely apologize. NutJob is correct.
For someone defending morality, you seem full of hate and anger. That discrepancy explains why you haven’t taken the time to investigate. All that you mention is what you read in tabloids, and nothing logical or based on evidence. As always, haters are unable to back up anything they say.
Suneel is a good man, and you’re helping this become evident with the way you write. The comparison between the honor with which he writes and the hate with which you write is actually helping him.
Anonymous, Polaris, and the NXIVM 5;
What you all are saying is tantamount to
“Anyone who is critical of Keith is a hateful-liar.”
No one can question Keith’s piety!
So, again I ask…..Is Keith Christ, Muhammad, of another Messiah?
“Questioning Kieth’s morality or crimes is blasphemy and sacrilege”, according to you people.
You all are true religious cult followers. You defend your leader the same way all other groups do. Anyone who questions anything regarding your leader is a hateful liar.
Can’t question a God. You people need help.
You must be a former pedophile devotee. In the outside world, anger has nothing to do with morality. That freakish fake smile and positive veneer were meant to keep you quiet and compliant. A good dog.
Lol. Who “reads tabloids” in 2021? No one. And it is okay to be angry over Keith raping a child. Disgusted by Keith’s producing child pornography. It is not your right to tell anyone that they cannot be angry over the abuse of women and children. We can think Suneel is foolish. And be filled with loathing for Suneel due to his complicity. Suneel is a pedophile’s apologist. People are gonna feel some kind of way about that fact.
Wow, your anger is palpable and I think you are making many assumptions about people’s intentions that may not be true at all. I personally think Suneel brought up some important and excellent points that are worth examining regardless of what you think of Raniere. My impression is that he is at least willing to examine the other side even though he has done a ton of research and seems to have some first-hand knowledge that others may not have which could shed light on this whole thing. I, for one, am hoping this whole thing is not the story we heard. Wouldn’t that be a good thing??? I hope you continue to present what you find, Suneel. I, for one, am very interested in a critical analysis of the facts and evidence.
“So I say, FUCK YOU, Suneel.”
Agreed.
Raniere wasn’t charged with being a monster.
He was charged and convicted under the RICO act.
He was actually charged and convicted of two RICO-related crimes — and five other non-RICO crimes.
KRC, I get a little confused about what falls into which bucket, predicate acts, etc.
I’m sure you’ve already covered this in detail.
Could you give a link to where this is laid out?
Thanks.
That’s a fact I always forget.
“Keith created an elaborate plan to coerce women into a lifetime of sexual servitude by holding ‘blackmail material’ over their heads which, even if he never released it, would always serve to make them feel pressured to do what he says (under the IMPLIED threat of having that blackmail material released if they don’t comply)”.
I think you’re on to something, the collateral was in deed used to backup these women’s word! and could be used (but wasn’t)… I think it’s similar to when you borrow money from the bank to buy a house, you set your collateral AND if you don’t keep your word… they have the right to come take your house! It’s not bad intended…Nor ware these women bad intended when asking for collateral in order to join DOS.
It’s not similar at all to a mortgage. I know you all think that’s a clever analogy. A mortgage is a completely transparent financial only contract. Spread eagle naked amateur porn, masturbating videos, fake ( or real) letters detailing sexual molestation as a child, criminal and other allegations against your husband and family – that is blackmail material.
It even had to be approved as ” damaging enough”. No bank or lender accepts that kind of payment. Also the blackmail was asked for by a trusted female friend with the intention of concealing the fact it would actually be given to a disgusting man. Have you ever seen a movie? Watched a TV show? Read a work of fiction? Watched the news? Then you know people will pay hundreds of thousands of not millions to keep sex tapes, personal information, damaging materials out of the public eye.
It is illegal for a reason. And read this part slowly… Sarah Edmondson did have blackmail released.
You liken a mortgage agreement to circumstances involving blackmail and the giving of collateral, consisting of photos of your gentitalia and/or “private” revelations, true or made-up, which are held over your head as a threat to make you conform to the will of others and to “behave” accordingly.
Is that what this comment is? What about using your common sense?
Where is the evidence that Keith created an “elaborate plan to coerce women into a lifetime of sexual servitude by holding ‘blackmail material’ over their heads”?
Also, can you elaborate on your beliefs of sexual immorality?
The evidence is in the trial record which appellate judges will review before denying The World’s Smartest Child Rapist™ his appeals and motion for a new trial.
See, that is exactly where the problem resides – the appellate judges are corrupt and did not review the evidence in a fair and just way. Just as this writer of this article has not been fair and just in their assessment. Looking at the downside with Suneel’s claims and his decision to expose injustice, there really is none, so why is there so much hate propagated towards his own decision to follow through with it?
If your premise is correct–“the appellate judges are corrupt and did not review the evidence in a fair and just way”–then The World’s Smartest Child Rapist™ is screwed regardless of what the court of public opinion thinks.
FYI, his case has yet to be heard by an appellate judge.
I take it fundamentals of US federal court structure was not covered in ESP/NXIVM courses.
Why don’t you write to your “Vanguard” and ask him? After all, he’s smarter than all of us hating haters combined.
You should write the appellate judges (before they’ve heard Keith’s case) ans tell them they are corrupt because Suneel says so. I am sure it will change everything. Also, say “data” like three thousand times. And attack the victims. Accuse the DOJ of releasing Sarah’s tape to the media as some commenters have claimed here. Imply money changed hands as one stated. Do not forget to explain how the jury all coordinated their outfits!!! You got this! Be at cause! Make it happen!
Said this in other post but Suneel needs to explain why he doesn’t care about the moral questions that Raniere brings up. A lawyer doesn’t care about morality, its not their job. Suneel doesn’t have that excuse. Until he can square that circle, his opinion on Raniere being “railroaded” is irrelevant.
They don’t have morality. They inhabit an imaginary field based on a bastardization of a line in a Rumi poem.
Spirituality should never provide an excuse for wickedness, that field is not a robbers den – not somewhere to run and hide to escape justice in the realm in which, Rumi, very consciously, wielded his pen.
These acolytes of Raniere are, of course, his imitators. The distinctions you’re pointing to are not really that subtle, but Raniere’s imitators are unwilling to look or to analyze ANYTHING which might discredit their idol, at least so far. For those admissions will plunge Raniere’s acolytes into yet another personal identity crisis, since they’ve invested themselves so deeply in their illusions about him.
I don’t think that it has entered Suneel’s awareness yet, that essentially Keith Raniere is using him. Suneel is completely replaceable to Raniere.
Yes, Shivani, but you know, I think identity crises occur when there’s conflict, a feeling of alienation in one’s fixed circumstances, so although it feels scary to fill with questions of “Who am I” – “WTF am I doing”, it is nearly always a helpful prompt – that something has to change for one to simply persist in one’s being.
Also, there’s a difference between the free grace some accept as God’s will [I do] which extends to all irrespective of good works, piety etc. and a regular human being claiming the power of free grace to absolve themselves of all guilt, responsibility and obligation for wrongdoing to others. I agree that this distinction is far from subtle. And… worst thing in the world to wake up and find, in the eyes of someone you look up to and serve, you might as well be a fish on a stick. I’d almost rather Suneel was a player, than a victim of this.