A Frank Report reader, using the moniker, “Asking Albert” asked, “I find it hard to believe anyone would say that raping a child is ok, so I would like to know more context – does anyone know more about how or when Keith said that?”
An Anonymous reader supplies a helpful reply to the question by sharing an apparent Keith quote from India Oxenberg’s STARZ documentary “Seduced”: “Do you understand how you could rape a baby? I could make it a baby that’s very rapeable,” – Keith Raniere
By Heidi Hutchinson
Rape-able Baby
This whole baby rape discussion reminds me of something Gina told me. Gina is my little sister who was experimented on by Keith & Co. after being raped by Keith. She ultimately suicided herself.
Frank has and is producing film projects that include her Nxivm story, and I believe it is an important and helpful one.
Gina told me that Keith explained to her that, in third world countries, mothers gave “succor and comfort” to their hungry infants by giving them blowjobs.
The context for Keith providing that bit of info?
Gina didn’t like oral sex. Keith supposedly wanted to help her overcome that obstacle to her spiritual advancement.
I seriously thought it was a joke and laughed it off, probably Keith was obviously making it up just to get sucked off.
Gina was told by Keith that I was Luciferian-level, insensitive to starving children in Africa, as well as to Keith’s greatness. And so it went, over and over, whenever I called out anything as another sexcuse brought to you by Keith & Co.
IDK if this is what the baby-fucking thing stems from or not, but I hope it helps.
Why Eduardo Is Reaching Out to Vicente
A reader, “Crucible,” responded to Raniere-supporter Eduardo Asunsolo’s open letter to Nxivm-defector Mark Vicente: “It’s brave of Eduardo to reach out to someone like Vicente who has such a proven track record of large-scale character defamation. Why would Eduardo do that?”
Possible reasons:
1. FAME, or its dark side – in this case, especially: Notoriety.
2. Self-Aggrandizement, pomposity, elitism.
Nxians place themselves — under “Vanguard” and “Prefect” — as being among those special, super souls who serve the greater purpose by obeisance to their infallible, superhuman leaders — so long as they promptly pay for courses that few can afford and/or ‘work’ in lieu of payment and keep their vow to never, ever be a victim, no matter what the said leaders do to them — or have them do to one another.
3. Perceived Power. There’s the ‘Power’ by rank within a hierarchal structure. And then — due to the misogyny — there’s the promise of power and dominance over the feminine. (This is, btw, the battle that rages most fiercely in Keith Raniere’s fractured psyche, IMHO.)
4. Prospect of wealth or reward – business success guaranteed. Eventually. Then, there’s all that Mexican-elite/Bronfman wealth to ‘network,” rub elbows with, etc.
5. Normalizing of psychosis or psychotic behavior. True, that’s happening all over the place these days, however, nowhere so obvious to me as the recent Nxivm dick/cunt salute splay outside the sex offender unit windows of the MDC.
Yes, I’m calling y’all psycho because, no, this kind of behavior is not normal. It is highly self-destructive. And within its context, it is PSYCHOTIC!
Btw, so is paying (in any way) to hear about how normal it is to fuck babies. Or for a mother to succor an infant’s penis, whatever THAT teaching was about. Or for females to be deceptively (in most cases) branded on the puss with someone’s monogram, etc. etc. etc.
But, please, feel free to add to this list and pardon my judgment, but you asked so nicely for it.
Abortion and Raniere
This next is in response to Guest View: Abortion Evidence Should Be Reviewed on Appeal but Raniere Should Have Gotten a Vasectomy
Ok, I’ll chime in on this grizzly thread with something that must be said.
PAM CAFRITZ WILLED HER OVARIES TO KEITH AND NXIVM RESEARCH.
And, to wit, they also put her corpse (hopefully it was a corpse by then) on ice in a bathtub.
Pam had a dozen abortions, easy.
There was a sci-fi/fantasy, Vanguard voo-doo component with the Avatar baby “spirits.” There WAS also talk of cloning, back in Dolly the sheep’s day.
I believe this tactic was also conveniently used to bring Pam to an acceptance of her own death, as opposed to getting real medical treatment — … Her OVARIES!
Kristin Snyder and her ‘maybe baby’ may also have been “together” lured to the hereafter – as portrayed in Nxivm’s unique version of it that seemed to be individually customized to each victim’s own Keith-tweaked composite view of heaven.
As for the true Keith, he relished experiencing his own potency each time he racked up another ‘Avatar’ score. Every conception proved he was the most ‘potent’ – aka, had the fastest, tastiest most bad-ass sperm ever spewed.
I know it’s morbidly mind-boggling and jarring, but you can’t begin to compare such bizarre behavior to anything close to normalcy.
Most sad of all is that these ladies’ ‘mother’ instincts were brought to bear on their captive psyches.
And their age — up to menopause, perhaps — factored against them in terms of the biological time clock as they got older. Where these women failed in life in the most fundamental female way — thanks to Keith & Co. — they could prevail in death among their not lost, but perfected children.
Gina and Kristin Were Problematic
In response to Heidi: Was It Assisted, Hypnotically-Induced Suicide for Gina Hutchinson and Kristin Snyder?
A commenter wrote, “Dear Heidi: It seems that both your sister, Gina Hutchinson, and Kristin Snyder were problematic for Nxivm because they had too much integrity.”
I’ve had the same thoughts myself.
In fact, Gina used to joke about “not being evil enough” — a line from Mike Myers’ spy spoofs — to join or be accepted into Nxivm.
Everything she did for them was with the purest intent. She did espouse some of the teachings and try to use them to ‘heal’ herself and others. And she struggled to accept her friends’ views of Keith.
In her journal, she recounts arguments between herself and even some family members who believed in Keith, noting specifically that they were fighting about Keith, etc. I think she felt guilty that, in some cases, she had introduced them to Keith and then couldn’t talk them down when she grew up and started to wise up.
In her younger years, she most definitely promoted him. For instance, when Consumers’ Buyline fell apart — not to mention the investigations by various state Attorneys General — it shook her up pretty badly.
When she learned Keith had fucked all her friends and cousins, for the greater good, that must have hit hard, too.
But in those days, playboys, cheaters and guys with lines were rampant and could also be considered a decent catch once they settled down or sowed their wild oats, etc. Any abnormalities perceived as to Keith’s voracious sexual appetite were chalked up as part of his eccentric genius or disability.
Then, the douchebag became “a renunciate” — for reals!
Disavowing all his carnal ways, and Gina credited the sensible, softening influence of a female ‘bizness’ partner, Nancy, but was almost proud of herself for “leading” him to the light. Not the blue light. T
The other one Keith led her to, if we believe that pillar of justice and morality “ever since she was a little girl,” Keith’s original Avatar baby mama, Kristin Keeffe.
Speaking of tear-jerking tributes to the simple Quaker life with a real man tenderly musing at one’s side:
Near her dying days, Gina conceded that Keith “had a profound effect on my life.”
Past tense.
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
Please leave a comment: Your opinion is important to us!
I second this challenge:
Nxivm Dead-Enders: Please supply the “in context” version of “rapable babies”. No summaries. No editorializing. No rationalization. Just Keith’s own verbatim dialogue. Prove us wrong. Provide the actual transcript that makes us all shrug and say, “Huh. Rapable babies. Now it makes sense”! This is your chance. You keep saying it. Now prove it!
These claims about Keith and babies is nothing more than click-bait from Francis Parlato Jr. and his cronies.
I find it hard to believe that Keith ever said anything about babies like that. It’s too perverted, even for him.
I think Frank WANTS these claims to be true. I think his cronies WANT these things to be true. It’s kinda like junior high school here. If enough of the popular kids SHOUT that something is true about somebody, then everybody else just kinda goes along with it, even if it’s total nonsense.
Methinks that Frank’s hatred for Keith stems from the fact that he tried to lure Clare away from Keith in 2008, but ultimately failed. Frank sought to have Clare become his business benefactor but she wouldn’t agree.
Frank is a hero of mine but I still wanna get his ass deported back to his homeland.
Have a nice day.
What don’t you believe? Need to see notes from the module? It’s fact. Context and intent are the only things not definitively known.
Bangkok
Are you Canadian? I only ask because you use the term “Junior High”, and every time I use that term, Americans can’t seem to understand what I’m talking about, so I got the impression that Americans don’t have Junior high schools…
Maybe you just like Canada so much that you are stealing our Canuck words?
Soon you’ll be mentioning touques and poutine, and forgetting how to spell words such as colour.
Junior high is used by many Americans, most people used that until they changed over from saying junior high which was 7th to ninth grade to now the more prevalent middle school, which is 6th to 8th grade. I myself went to junior high which is 7th to 9th grade, then we had a choice to stay at junior high and be the 9th graders which are like seniors as far as clout in junior high or go to high school and be the lowest on the totem pole. I lost out my last year as we had unrest and some scary violence and transferred to a private school.
Bangkok-
By the looks of the comment section, NutJob and Flowers are both vying for your attention.
Who will you answer first?
Suddenly, NutJob wants to be friends and is attempting to explain baby rape; and Flowers wants to know if you hail from the great white North.
Bangkok, you were definitely missed by all.
😉
(Somebody’s still bitter about getting knocked the fuck out over Boston sports…)
Who does Nutjob want to bang more?
1. Nancy
2. Bangcock
Ah come on now NJ – that’s just too easy. Give us more fangled multiple choices – ones that take a lifetime to figure out 🙂
That’s a tough one, Nuts. Bangkok being a disease-free virgin or Nancy with her STDs.
Bangkok is believed to be a 23-year-old trans-female ne’er-do-well living in ze’s garage.
*Ze is a gender-neutral singular pronoun.
Btw go back to Shea stadium…now a burial ground for New York sports fans who suck
—If enough of the popular kids SHOUT that something is true about somebody, then everybody else just kinda goes along with it, even if it’s total nonsense.
Popular kids? I guess you weren’t SHOUTING then except from inside a high school locker.
Bangkok it’s all so interesting. You appear to be an aficionado when it comes to baby-molesters. I have to ask, how did you acquire such knowledge?
This may explain it. Apparently he is a “misoginystic something gross….”
[Mauricio Ricardo Urtaza Reyes
January 1, 2021 at 4:46 pm
I think you a misoginystic something gross Bangkok.]
I read a destructive intention in many of the opinions, there is no room for the possibility of other intentions as in the case of Mr. Asunsolo, all the comments about his behavior are about devaluing his behavior and not finding any positive possibility much less kind in his conduct
Correspondent: “Where these women failed in life in the most fundamental female way — thanks to Keith & Co. — they could prevail in death among their not lost, but perfected children.”
I strongly object to your seeming assertion that not birthing children is to “fail in life in the most fundamental female way.” Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you meant, but if I read that line as-is, it strips a female human of all her individuality/creativity/personality and makes the exact value of her life equivalent to a biological incubator. I believe the worth of any human, male or female, is entirely separate from their reproductive capacity.
Right, what if you are one of the many who can’t physically have children? Are you a born failure? Rubbed me wrong too.
Being a “biological incubator” which is a pejoratively loaded term (I prefer the term mother) is actually a significant, teleological purpose of a woman. Modern feminist nonsense is not.
That a woman may not be some successful career woman of the system does not diminish her worth one bit. Her character is most important and nothing shows more of it than often unselfishly self-sacrificing in rearing another individual of character—whether male or female—for the next generation. Natural roles are never replaced. They are only projected in some other form onto another.
Good explanation!
Thanks, Sultan!!!
I see your point but you’re correct that that’s not what I meant. Maternal, or parental if you prefer, instinct toward nurturing and protecting their child – unborn or born — is what I meant. I do not believe and didn’t say women who don’t have children are flawed.
Keith & Co. were toying with those maternal instincts on these particular female psyches as a tool to manipulate them.
Maybe if the men could have been repeatedly impregnated and coerced into aborting a much wanted “Avatar” child with Keith, it would have the same effectiveness as a means to manipulate, control and “break them down,” as Keith told Mark Vicente he was doing with Allison Mack.
Thanks for pointing that out and permitting me to clarify.
I appreciate your clarification. I’ve always liked your comments and you seem.lovely.
Heidi – thank you for making a point to respond and clarifying what you meant.
As a parent myself, I relate very much to what you are calling the “instinct toward nurturing and protecting” one’s child. A friend of mine recently found out her first child has a rare genetic condition, and while she was very shocked/saddened to find out about the diagnosis, once the baby arrived it took hardly any time at all for her to fall madly in love with him and for all the parental instincts of loving, supporting and protecting this child to kick in. It’s amazing to watch her as a new Mom.
SkyandSun33,
I wanted to respond to you since reading this. I appreciate your thoughts on motherhood and your outreach to me. I’m very frustrated with FR right now for a number of reasons and one of them — the BIGGIE — is the failure to awaken you (assuming you’re a NX hanger-on) to who Keith is and what he and his accomplices have and continue to do to you all.
Do you realize that, like my sister and many other girls and women before you, Keith is selfishly depriving you of your opportunity to become a mother or parent?
(Yeah, I make assumptions too quickly sometimes but very often I’ve found in my longish life that one’s first impression is right and, see, I don’t mind being wrong and often hope I am. …HOPE!)
I’m not trying to patronize or ‘baby’ you, either. Or brain soil anybody 😄.
I just want you to see the gap between what you’d hoped to achieve in NXIVM when you first signed up (and paid up) and where you’re at right now.
You’re telling me – if I read between the lines (bad habit, that) – you’re ready to love a baby no matter how apparently ‘flawed,’ even if it’s not THE or AN Avatar.
As an aside, An Avatar – the reincarnate Supreme (Hindi) God on Earth or some definition thereabouts (could be that electric blue, product of the blue light special Godchild) – is, according to Keith, the only kind that “Vanguard” aka Keith Alan Raniere can shoot out. …Right?
Now, if you (again, presuming) are not permitted to make love with any other baby maker than KAR – for whatever the reason — maybe, say, a husband like “Nippy” seeing a, maybe, “KAR” (is it any wonder Sara Edmondson unconsciously added an AM to the ‘brand’ or trademark she saw in the mirror) on his wife’s puss might mean the happy couple would never fuck — not with the lights on — ever again – for whatever reason, again, you have no reproduction alternative BUT his VANGUARDNESS, KAR, Keith Alan Raniere’s sacred cum – wherever it may land upon you – you will never be a mother or parent, if you prefer.
I’ve had a lot of time to review and devour every detail of why and how my sister, Gina, might have ended her own life in her prime. (At the age of 33, coincidentally.) What “triggered” her, emotionally. You’ve heard that phrase “emotional triggers” from Keith, boasting in a video how he knew how to set off those secret triggers that lead to a state of “cognitive dissonance” — and it is a very dangerous state to be in (btw, QAnoners, that IS NOT a secret message about the State of CA 🤣…yeah, but you had to be there) – cognitive dissonance is a state of psychosis that I believe my sister was in when she pulled or had her triggers pulled to achieve that dangerous state of mind.
Maybe it was easier for Keith and Kristin (and whomever else may have hyper assisted at the very end — as “The Rat” first exposed on John Tighe’s blog) to work Gina into that state – they’d been working on it for at least a decade prior, per the evidence. Keith and Nancy had the Mexican Elite in pocket and had just hooked the Bronfman’s good — remember, Edgar Bronfman declares himself CURED OF IMPOTENCE – in a Letter of Recommend he purported penned —snatched by that snatcher of snatches, Barbara Bouchey – when Gina suddenly, rather. Conveniently for both Keith and Nancy, passed away.
The relevance is in Gina’s last EM chart. They ‘worked’ with Gina on her, essentially, maternal, sexual instincts that were problematic for her since the night Keith first stole her virginity, at age 14 or younger.
Gina loved music, our DAD being a pro musician, and since Keith and Kristin always pegged her as “auditory” — it’s an NLP thing — I was not surprised to see all the music references in her EM chart down to the suicidal sound of “smashing pumpkins” generated weeks before she died of suicide in a state of cognitive dissonance, Keith boasts of inducing in his acolytes, at his whim.
You SEE, in Gina’s chart that her oh-so-temporary NXIVM coach composed – in what is believed to have been her first (and final) FORMAL, VERY costly I might add, EM, the creator of it (his is that handwriting analysis coming along, Frank?) stresses that Gina could and should choose to be girl “Independent,” to BREAK THAT GLASS CEILING…sound familiar? See the chart. There it is. A hand that may have been someone experimenting on Gina, trying out a not-so-new SLOGAN that would, coincidentally, become the very staging for HRC’s presidential (not) convention 4 or so years hence.
As I believe you or one of you (presuming) broached in a prior comment – accusing me of finding flaw with women who choose the “independent route, which was not MY intent at all, over choosing motherhood — that was the choice that hung over her at that time — she MAY have even been pregnant and it may not have been Keith’s child she aborted (there’s some evidence that a [redacted, lol] person with a K in her initials scheduled Gina for such a procedure in NYC in August 2002, about the same time her EM chart was drawn up, 6 weeks before she died.
So, sunandsky33, you see, you are at the same crossroads in your life and you may want to open your eyes and look at WHERE you are and how you got there and what is preventing you from moving on, in my pious opinion.
What are you waiting for? Break the glass and, btw, who says you have to choose at all? Well, if you had a baby that required more attention like your friends baby, your choices might be a little lessened by fate.
In my case, interestingly enough, and since you seek data thereto, Keith Raniere also DID have a hand in attempting to narrow my choices even further, to recruit me through my sister using “covert” means including extortion and mental manipulation.
That’s another story for another day, if Frank doesn’t spook me off of here with some of his choices I do not agree with and would never want to be said a participant in, however tangentially. (Bad luck and bad men come in 3’s, LOL.) Kristin well knows what I mean.
I hope this helps you see through the illusion that you appear to be trapped in — that serves only the hyper selfish interests of a narcissist who time and again, in his criminal pattern, refused to share his women he truly believes he alone has a right to own.
Gina’s chart, the branding, it’s all the same, all of it reflects the mind of a narcissist intent on preventing, destroying the possibility of motherhood for you from another donor.
Hope this helps prevent you from not seeing that, in reality, you have an infinity of choices — and that while they may be limited by your prior ones — please don’t let them be limited by the dominance and ownership of your entire being and being ness by a Madman and a soulless, filthy pack of thieves.
If you could please run Gina’s chart and, perhaps, the notations I’ve sent from Gina’s notes in her hand from the Summer of 2002, denoting the appointment she had in NYC with Kristin Keefe and instructions to bring her first morning urine sample. Should you feature this comment, I mean.
Look forward to your response?
‘I believe the worth of any human, male or female, is entirely separate from their reproductive capacity.’
How? Did you get planted in a cabbage patch by a stork? Somehow grew to sentient adulthood outside of a set of fixed circumstances? Our reproductive capacity, our fixed circumstances are central to our existence -QED
On a level – we are all the children of John Thomas and Fanny Quint. Even those of us who either physically cannot reproduce or those of us who consciously choose not to reproduce, our basic existence – which certainly preempts any notion of worth – cant be separated out into ‘biological incubators’ and ‘individuality/creativity/personality’ – you have fallen into the dreaded abyss of Cartesian error. Stay there or ask Spinoza for a way out. You’re welcome.
Did any of these people have God in their life, or was Vanguard it?
An acolyte of Raniere is an assistant or devotee who assists the celebrant, in this case, Raniere himself, in a religious service or procession. In the Vanguard religion, an acolyte is someone who performs ceremonial tasks; in Vanguard, it is a group blow job. Otherwise, the term is used for someone who has been inducted into a particular liturgical service [sexual and other services], even if they do not [currently] perform those duties. At these services, not some distant intangible god is worshipped, but, Vanguard aka Keith Raniere himself. He personally appears as God the Father, as Zeus did in ancient Greece. Therefore, the inclination of the NXIVM followers to the Greek and Roman antiquity. For this reason, Vanguard is probably not a god like Zeus, but an embodiment of Zeus personally.
About why Eduardo wrote to Mark
Why the writer thinks of these 5 possible reasons as a Eduardo’s motive? All 5 related to external world
Is it possible other motives like self improvement? Like love even your enemies? Like being at peace with yourself?
What is the intent of the writer to bias even possibilities?
Lets move beyond hate
Dear Anonymous, I agree. What is interesting is it seems people only want to paint a picture of hate.
Again, please add whatever “internal” motivations you feel may be applicable.
When did Keith and Nancy give slaves permission to stop “hating” and start “loving” their “enemies”?
So far, I haven’t seen any “acts of love” toward any NXIVM enemies. On the contrary.
As many commenters have already stated, the outreach to Mark V. could have been done privately, more sincerely, if love were Eduardo or his master’s motive.
Nxivm Dead-Enders: Please supply the “in context” version of “rapable babies”. No summaries. No editorializing. No rationalization. Just Keith’s own verbatim dialogue. Prove us wrong. Provide the actual transcript that makes us all shrug and say, “Huh. Rapable babies. Now it makes sense”! This is your chance. You keep saying it. Now prove it!
Didn’t Keith Raniere teach Nxiscum retards that mothers perform fellatio on babies to “soothe” them? 100% sure that was out there years ago.
“It is enough to judge well to do well, and to judge the best possible to also act in the best way”
Descartes.
“To know what people really think, pay attention to what they do, rather than to what they say.”
-Descartes
This is true, we ought to be ‘fruit-checkers’ first. Yet listening to wolves in sheep’s clothing can also be helpful. esp. when they do not seem to do that much.
“But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person.” – Jesus Christ (Mt 15:18-20 ESV)
If we pay attention to what people talk about, we might see what they are really interested in as nobody keeps talking about something he has not been occupied with.
Disappointed by such a bad article. These things have been said before, they are old and merely opinions of people about very sensitive topics that have been proven to be out of context and/or lies. I understand Frank is giving space for everyone to publish stuff on his blog but frankly, this was a terrible read. Didn’t even finish it. Quality control and more relevant content would be better. Done with sensationalism and controversy.
What do you mean? This article is twisted. However, it is not untrue. And it’s only twisted because of Keith’s behaviors.
What is sensationalistic? The “baby rape”? If yes, I’d say that you are correct in that Keith didn’t technically teach to perform fellatio on babies, but he certainly didn’t teach that it was wrong. (see my below comment for the context) He taught that society says it is wrong.
Heidi sharing what she witnessed isn’t “merely an opinion.” People sharing information about Keith’s beliefs on something that gave him a mandatory 15yrs seems quite relevant to me.
Keith is evil. If you don’t agree with this, then I get your angle. If you don’t disagree with Keith being evil, let me remind you that you are on a website that is covering an evil psychopath. Unpleasant shit abounds wherever Vanguard is. I mean, the dude used to teach about fellatio with babies – enough said.
Yes, Frank, do permit this Knife-wielding Geek chorus to run your news organization in adherence to the highest standards of journalism…
Btw, not true that any of this has been disproved. In fact, it’s been proved but not yet widely-exposed. Looks like you’re gonna have to ramp up on the sensational distractions, Maeneads. Have you tried Kim Kardashian?
Do you still have that disclaimer up about how FR is not a news outlet, Frank?
Heidi – You are a little confused. I never had a disclaimer about FR not being a news outlet. Why would I do that?
A “little” confused? Try a “LOT” confused.
Good job not using LOL. It tricked me into reading.
NutJob,
Nice catch, NutJob!
Our sneaky Texan could be anyone.
Amen, Heidi, …..maybe another story how Hilarious Baldwin?
Watching the Seduced clip, it is obvious that this video was taken out of context, from what I’ve seen in other documentaries and judging by the comments of people involved in this class, they were discussing roles that would be very difficult to play, like a rapist. This is pretty easy to assess if one is not looking for something to hate, but sadly, most people interested in this situation are looking for something to hate.
As a side note, to not talk about dark things, like child rape or any other bad behaviors, tends to propagate the behaviors. In other words, a rapist probably thrives from the notion that rape shouldn’t be discussed. We also need to understand and discuss this behavior to be able to know the root of it. To condemn someone for discussing a tough subject is reminiscent of the burning of the books.
When faced with written, video or audio evidence of their evil, cults always use three strategies.
1) “This is taken out of context.” 2) “It is a metaphor/symbolic, not to be taken literally.” 3) “It is fake.”
What is this nonsense about “discussing roles that would be very difficult to play”? That makes no sense whatsoever. Pure BS.
Then the standard NXIVM true-believer cliche about “hate.” Yawn! At least learn a synonym, folks, even if you can’t come up with a new idea.
Then trying to distract by attacking a straw man argument about never discussing rape which no one has raised.
No way to avoid discussing rape when NXIVM is the topic because it was standard operating procedure, especially when underage girls were involved.
The true-believer response to me will be to cry like a baby: “You’re a hater!”
As to your 2nd pp, what do you think Keith was trying to accomplish with the child rape talk? I agree with your premise and remember assuming this was going on when I first heard him bring up the topic. However, I’m now virtually 100% certain that Keith couldn’t give a flying fuck about child rape, and was using the talk in order to soften up his prey.
So are you saying Keith is a white Michael Jackson?
No. Saying Keith used it to desensitize people to his real goal: Bedding 12-17 yr old girls. And maybe get a 2nd benefit by increasing the likelihood of getting BJs from certain members of his existing harem.
Unless you’re referring to ex Hoya guard, Michael Jackson. But I don’t know enough about his personal life to compare him to Keith.
— they were discussing roles that would be very difficult to play, like a rapist.
“Do you understand how you could rape a baby? I could make it a baby that’s very rapeable,”
I COULD MAKE IT A BABY THAT’S VERY RAPEABLE.
There is not a modicum of “difficulty” represented in the meaning of this sentence.
A person is rapeable (at any age) only in the sense that the depths of human depravity can rationalize doing an act like that. It’s like saying “I could make it a baby that’s very murderable.”
Anything that is not impossible is [word]-“able” because the human being has the free will and the capability to do it.
There is no point in DISCUSSING the motivations of a rapist–only to know what it is–because no motivation JUSTIFIES it.
I didn’t watch Seduced. We’re talking about different things.
Why didn’t you watch?
I guess you don’t like revisionist history.
I will. Too busy playing good cop/bad cop on FR. Plus, Vicente showed up after I was gone, and so I don’t have to worry about seeing my own mug doing something stupid.
NutJob-
The documentary is like most self-documentaries.
It’s 85% true and 15% fIction.
I believe Seduced is slightly more accurate regarding India. The Vow has a ton of revisionist history and shoe polish.
What was the purpose of your “walk a mile in a child-rapist’s shoes” exercise? Once you have learned to empathize with this pathology, then what? Does exploring an identity in the subjunctive tie you forever to that identity? How? Do you believe when you can comprehend another’s actions and intentions, that you become equivalent to those actions and intentions? I just want to say:
You don’t have to become everything you think you understand. You are entitled to a private life. You don’t have to answer any impertinent questions about your sexuality, relationships, childhood, feelings, be aware, being mined for information particularly about your vulnerabilities, is always ALWAYS a collateral gleaning exercise by those who claim their need to know, is better for you. Never concede your personal sovereignty, choose who to serve if that’s your thing, don’t get caught in invisible snares. Take care.
Keith taught in a module that mothers is some third world countries would calm their male babies down by performing fellatio. He also hinted around in this same module that the statutory rape laws were wrong. I always assumed that the baby fellatio example was used to easier reach his outcome of normalizing statutory rape. Maybe I was wrong and he was actually trying to normalize sucking on his disease ridden, limp, joystick (pun intended). In actuality, he was probably doing both.
Sounds like Keith always trying to kill one bird with at least two stones.
Wasn’t Gina found with a shotgun zipped up under her hoodie which she could not have reached with her hand? So, it’s accepted now that this was definitely a suicide?
The most recent conclusion was that she used a stick or something but it’s not noted in any reports at the time that there was or wasn’t a stick near her body. There’s another surprise that hadn’t been investigated —
THERE WAS A SECOND GUN AT THE SCENE THAT WAS NOT FIRED.
My theory – it was maybe a game of “chicken” between her and someone else who didn’t “go through with it.”
There were many other indications of a NXIVM involvement in a “hyper-assisted” suicide starting back years from when she apparently did go through with it.
If someone else was present at Gina’s suicide, why would this person(s) leave the second gun behind at the scene?
Also, I’ve watched a number of true crime investigation shows, such as forensic files, and I know from those shows that it is possible for a person to shoot themselves the same way Gina allegedly did. So it is possible that the police were correct in their findings.
The second gun should have been noted in the police report but it was not.
I know it was there bc our Dad and stepmother retrieved BOTH, THE TWO GUNS, at the Hollister County station about 6 mos. afterwards.
Regardless of what conclusions were made or how crime investigations are portrayed in TV shows that is the reality.
But I’m sure police everywhere appreciate your support and will let you out of traffic tickets going forward, Flowers.
Heidi
I wasn’t referring to crime dramas. Not sure if you have ever watched Forensic Files, but this show explains how real crimes were solved by forensics. One episode was about a man who was charged with murdering his wife, but he was later acquitted after it was proved to be a suicide. It was proven that the woman was able to sit on the floor and shoot herself with a rifle, even though initially investigators didn’t believe she could reach the trigger.
The second gun doesn’t suggest another party was present. Logically, how can you force someone to kill themself by threatening them with another gun, since the person being threatened would also be armed with a loaded gun?
—THERE WAS A SECOND GUN AT THE SCENE THAT WAS NOT FIRED.
I don’t remember that. Can you please point me in a direction with more info?
Thanks
I’ll let Frank respond, NG. I brought it up a number of times and his response was similar to Flower’s. “Wasn’t in the police report.”
Maybe I just misremembered or possibly hallucinated my folks talking to police, going to Albany, NY and returning with 2 tagged guns. My brother has the same hallucination, btw. And the guns.
Excellent points, Shivani.
NXIVM selected for and nurtured psychopathic traits.
Raniere, the NXIVM 5 and assorted bitter-enders don’t worry me as much as the people who are diabolical enough to keep their heads down and use “the tech” they’ve learned to work their evil in a different form, avoiding the toxic NXIVM brand (literally and figuratively).
The NXIVM 5 fantasizes about a future where their “Vanguard” is free and they get slaves of their own (if they didn’t have them already), but that’s not in the cards.
The Bronfmans are a different story… they will walk free one day and have a ton of cash to play with. Will they successfully shed themselves of NXIVM stench and launch a different brand?
The tons of cash, no matter where hidden, will be siphoned off in a massive civil verdict. My opinion.
Perhaps these amounts of cash no longer exist; it is likely that NXIVM profits have been exchanged and laundered into cryptocurrencies. This makes tracking cash flows particularly difficult, if not impossible.
Fascinating idea. Might explain why bitcoin has shot up to 34000+ recently.
But it would be very risky, as it fluctuates so much.
LOL. What makes it impossible? The person who owns the currency still needs to be able to use it. If he can use it, it’s not impossible to find out who’s using it.
Cryptocurrencies are maintained on a block chain. Theoretically, every transaction recorded on a block chain is encrypted and unalterable (maintaining its integrity) and will exist for as long as computers are running on electricity or some other power source to maintain it. The block chain is also distributed and therefore fault tolerant so that every machine that has it will (eventually) maintain the same copy of it.
RE: The Bronfmans and investing their fortune in some different brand. This project came into prominence in the news recently because of the association with a couple of prominent people.
Just reading the ‘blurb’, though, sends shivers down one’s spine. Sounds like the CCP-backed project Ben Myers was involved with. Or some of the AI devices already ‘re-educating’ children’s behaviour, in their own homes. Frank, do you know anything about this project? Who’s funding it? Is it above-board, genuine? Because “Researching Techniques for Developing Compassion and Promoting Altruism Within Individuals and Society” sounds totally creepy/brave new world.
Center for Compassion and Altruism Research and Education, Stanford Medicine
James R. Doty, MD is the Founder & Director of the Center for Compassion and Altruism Research and Education (CCARE) at Stanford Medicine. Dr. Doty is a world-renowned expert on the neuroscience of compassion. Archewell Foundation supports the Center’s mission for groundbreaking research and education on techniques for developing compassion and promoting altruism within individuals and society.
Nothing scares a NXIVM diehard more than compassion.
Back to the topic of this thread: Keith Raniere advocates child rape and mothers giving their infant sons blow jobs.
That’s how sick NXIVM is. That’s why anyone who was ever involved that hasn’t renounced the criminal enterprise needs to be exposed.
Raniere couldn’t let go of someone who wanted to leave a ” relationship” with him. Very often he turned sour and vengeful, had no grace about losing his grip upon someone who was ostensibly his ” intimate”. He even enjoined his herd of harpies to do damages in his name or on his behalf.
Heidi knows better than most how long ago Raniere began his collection. The vileness doled out by not only Keith Raniere, but by many of his closest associates can feel staggering at times, and this is one of those times. Prayers do not feel like enough. It is good that Heidi has gotten to some of the true grit here, beyond the veils and the veiling.
Raniere could not let go of his false sense of dominance or control. Over the other, particularly sexually and often financially as well. How come? I speculate that Raniere couldn’t let go, because then he was afraid that he might have to face himself and what he did. Plus, what if someone talked? What if someone left and then mounted a confrontation with him? Say for sexual abuse or for rape or maybe embezzlement or withholding someone’s passport, etc., etc., and, frankly, ad nausuem.
It isn’t only about what Raniere would do criminally or otherwise. Those living under his influence, what have some done? What are some still doing now?
This might not be a convenient time to mention how interested Sara Bronfman seems to be in early childhood education. Although she got shut down in France, that doesn’t mean that she’s done strutting around with ants in her pants or bats in her belfry. So ringy dingy. Some heavy-handed freaks.
Gah, financially. Just grrrrr
Grrrrrr…woof, woof…or is that more wolf-pack howling in the distance?
No comment needed …
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8932849/Kent-village-home-child-sex-cult-Children-God-set-Hollingbourne-Manor.html
This article is mostly hearsay, sensational, and lowers the journalistic integrity of this site. In my opinion, the title is clickbait, and the content pales in comparison to the other, more substantive articles that have been posted on here. I know it’s by another reader, but that doesn’t mean it deserves a platform on a credible news site.
“This article is mostly hearsay, sensational, and lowers the journalistic integrity of this site.”
Amy, You must be new around here…. this site offers no journalistic integrity. In fact, it’s an insult to the word journalist. But it does provide endless comedy and entertainment.
Luckily, it’s still a free country and a website can say anything they want if they are willing!
Happy new year!
Just because you aren’t reading what you want to hear about dear Vanguard, doesn’t mean it’s not true.
LMAO!
This website played a pinnacle part in taking down Nxivm.
In the case of the hypotheses of Asunsolo’s letter to Mark Vicente, it does not seem serious to publish and give credibility to anonymous opinions that are not based on data that can be verified.