Vicente Talks About the Women Raniere Had Sex With and Kept Skinny

This is the next in our series on Mark Vicente’s testimony in the trial of Keith Alan Raniere.

Vicente did as much as anyone to sink the formidable Vanguard.

In this post, we learn more about the filthy one, including the revelation that Raniere had a sexual relationship with an actress [Although she was not named, it was well known in the Nxivm community to be Kristanna Loken] who apparently got violent with the blessed one and punched him, something that perhaps many, in retrospect, might have wished to have emulated.

It has also been widely rumored that he may have gotten her pregnant.

Actress Kristanna Loken with her son, Thor. Is the lad the son of Keith Raniere? Many in Nxivm maintain they think he is Raniere’s son.

AUSA Mark Lesko is examining Vicente.

Mark Lesko

 

Mark Vicente

***

Just prior to this part of Vicente’s testimony, he had described how Raniere had semi-starved Allison Mack in his attempt to break her. Vicente said he was concerned about her health and how skinny she had become.

Now Lesko asks Vicente about some of the other women before getting back to Mack.

Q   Was [Daniella Padilla] one of the women who concerned you?

A   Yes. She had always been skinny, but it looked to me to be getting worse.

The princely [and a little tubby] Keith Alan Raniere walks with his DOS slave Daniela Padilla. One has to feel a little sorry for this young lady; she might have thought he was a noble prince but he was her cruel abuser. If she were your daughter, you might consider killing this skunk for what he did to her.
Q   Was Marianna skinny?

A   Very.

Mariana Fernandez with the pudgy one walking with their baby, Kemar.

Q   Was Nicki Clyne skinny?

A   She was also very skinny, yes.

Nicki Clyne with her now-convicted spouse, Allison Mack. Both lives were ruined by Raniere. Mack realizes it, but Clyne seems to still be a believer in the magic of the Vanguard.

Q   Are you familiar with a woman named Sylvie?

A   I am.

Q   Was Sylvie one the women who was skinny?

A   Exceedingly, yes.

Q   Are you familiar with a woman named Kerstin?

A   Yes.

Q   Was Kerstin skinny?

A   Very. She was one of the ones I was very concerned about.

***

Q   When the defendant told you that he was trying to break Allison Mack, what was your reaction to that comment?

A   I was disturbed because a part of me thought “okay, well, so we’re trying to break pride. Okay? I mean, I get that.” But I couldn’t understand why somebody withering away was somehow going to fix that. That was the part I didn’t get. And the thing is, I was at this point beginning to ask Raniere a lot of questions, but there was still the issue of my rank and his rank. So I had to be very careful that only in private would I ask him certain questions, not in public. And then also even in private, this was somebody who was, like, it’s like questioning the king, you know? Like at a certain point just slow down and be careful.

So I would often just nod my head and think, “okay. Well, he’s got some understanding that I don’t have and maybe there’s some wisdom I just can’t get because of something he knows.” I don’t share that anymore, but that’s what I thought at the time.

Two more victims of the dark one: Lauren Salzman [l] and Allison Mack [r]. Look how skinny Mack is: she looks like she could have been recently released from a concentration camp.
In her pre-DOS slavery days. Allison Mack was healthy but too heavy for the sick Raniere. How can one not feel pity for these women, despite their mistakes, after reading Vicente’s testimony and seeing pictures? This is a compelling argument that the judge should show leniency for Mack and others.

Q   During the time period you were involved with NXIVM, did you become aware that the defendant was in sexual relationships with any women in the community?

A   I did.

Q   How did you acquire that information?

A   Well, one of the ways was when Barbara Jeske died, after she died, he spoke to me and said this was like losing a wife for him. And I’d never heard him say that before. And suddenly it occurred to me, “Oh, I didn’t realize that that was the relationship.” That was quite … a surprise to me.

Keith Raniere with Barbara Jeske. She died and he inherited her estate worth millions.

And it sort of made sense because, you know, he said to me once, like when it comes to having sex he really needs to know somebody, and it takes at least a year to really, really know somebody before that happened. So I thought “Okay. Well, you know, he’s known her a long time. I guess that kind of makes sense.”

And then later, there was an actress that I had introduced him to [Kristanna Loken], and he told me that they’d begun a thing together, and that it had got very inflammatory and she hit him. And I thought, “Okay. So they’re a thing.” I took that to mean a sexual thing given the way they were with each other. And then in 2017, he told me that he had conceived with Marianna, and I was surprised that I didn’t really even thought they were together all the time. I didn’t know that that was their relationship, and it was a disturbing conversation in general to me. But I decided to just, you know, in essence, not show that I had deep concerns about it. And I said to him, “You know, okay, well, I guess congratulations are in order,” and I just left it alone. But I began to develop a picture in my mind. “Okay. So there’s a lot more going on than I realize.”

Q   …. the defendant resided with Marianna and Pam Cafritz; is that correct?

A   Correct.

Q   And did you have an understanding as to when actually that baby with Marianna was conceived?

A   When we spoke about it, the baby was conceived around the time that Pam Cafritz was dying or had just died.

Pam Cafritz at V-Week 2016 – a few months before she died. Raniere inherited her estate worth $8 million.

Q   Were you aware that the defendant had other children with other members of the NXIVM community?

A   Yes, I was.

***

Q   Did you became aware that the defendant had a child with Kristin Keeffe?

A   Yes, he told me that.

Q   Do you know the name of that child?

A   The name of the child was Gaylyn.

Q   Was Gaylyn a boy or girl?

A   Gaylyn was a boy.

Q   Did you later learn that the defendant had sexual relations with other members of the NXIVM community?

A   Once I had left, yes. But while I was still in … those instances I mentioned  [were] most of the ones I knew about.

Q   Approximately how many members of the NXIVM community did the defendant have sexual relations with?

A   I think it was in excess of 20.

Q   Did you witness the defendant being physically intimate with women in the community?

A   I did.

Q   How so?

A   Well, generally speaking when he would meet one of the, you know… younger women that spent time with him, he was always very intimate with them, you know, hand-holding, touching, walks sometimes hand in hand. You know, kissing on the lips, a lot of tenderness, the kind of tenderness that is not usual in a corporate environment. And then, you know, I saw at one point, you know, an instance that gave me pause. But other than that, it was, generally speaking, just the way he was with each of them. The way I saw it is they were like – almost, like giddy call girls, and he was kind of the connect with each of them in different ways. But there was a lot of, you know, physical contact and whispering.

Q   Did you witness the defendant being physically intimate with Clare Bronfman?

A   I did.

Q   How so?

A   Same kind of things…kisses, talking, there was a lot of hand, the touching and there would be this sort of fingers intertwine and then rolls around, that kind of stuff. As I had said, it’s  not just, you know, corporate buddies hanging out, there’s something else.

Two of his harem, Clare Bronfman and Lauren Salzman

END

In this selection from Vicente’s testimony, he says he knew of some, but not all of Raniere’s likely sex partners.  I believe him. Nxivm was a world of secrets and Raniere knew most of them and imposed secrecy on his followers, each keeping their own secrets.

It was up to him to tell the secrets to whom he chose.

It is hard to fathom how so many intelligent and good looking people were fooled by this swindler. And herein we may have the key to cults themselves.  It is worthy of exploring: Why did they allow him to control their lives?

One thing that is evident is that the followers themselves, by keeping secrets, by always edifying Keith, obeying him, and working to persuade others when they had doubts to reinforce the “rightness” of following him, that they kept each other in his group.

Almost like a sheepdog herding the sheep, with the various women taking turns at being the sheepdog.

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Raniere counted on this, along with techniques sleep deprivation [spiritually advanced people need little sleep], low cal vegetarian diets [highly evolved women need far fewer calories than science presently understands], hypnosis, fear, punishment [often] and reward [occasionally] and other techniques that kept people, mostly women, in line and obedient.

The women corralled, recruited and kept each other in line.  Yet the more I see of the women, even these women who were part of the wolf pack, the women who kept the other women in line, the more I realize that they were also victims. All [or almost all] of them suffered abuse at his hands.  It is hard to not feel pity for them, hard not to wish for leniency for them.

Sometimes, such as now, I think there was only one real true villain deserving of long-term punishment: Raniere.

The others, like Lauren and Allison, are likely to get a few years [if I were sentencing them, I would give them probation or home detention.] Kathy Russell might get little or no time at all [and rightfully so].

Nancy Salzman – perhaps the third biggest villain in this horror-monstrosity – will likely get off with only a few years in prison, maybe less than her daughter Lauren or Allison [which will be a true injustice.]

The second greatest rascal, next to Raniere himself, Clare Bronfman, is likely to get no more than four years in prison. She needs to be sequestered from humans for a time since she alone [other than Raniere] represents a danger to victims and whistleblowers.

With her wealth, she could still harm them severely and seems to have the disposition to do so. Next to Raniere, she had the most vengeful streak.

Even Nancy, as volatile as she was at times, did not have the innate desire to destroy people. She was more of a self-centered creature seeking to gain from her status. But she did not, like Clare and Keith, have the killer instinct. She went along with the cruelty because she loved her job and the status it brought her.

Nancy [Prefect] Salzman cuts the ribbon opening up the Mexico NXIVM center with Alex Betancourt [l] and Emiliano Salinas [R].
A slide at Vanguard Week paying tribute to Nancy Salzman

 

Nancy Salzman outranked everyone but Raniere. Here she is with her gold sash, with Mark Vicente,  Alex Betancourt, Karen U, Clare Bronfman, Lauren Salzman, and Emiliano Salinas – all wearing their sashes indicating rank.

With Clare, a four-year stint in prison followed by three years of probation will allow her to be monitored and, therefore, neutered for about 7 years. Hopefully, that will be enough for her victims to move on with their lives.

She, too, may learn to not seek vengeance – seeing how little it got her.

However, happily, Raniere, the man who always put things in others’ names so he could not be held criminally liable will get, most likely, a longer sentence than the other five defendants put together.

And that is justice.

 

 

 


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Frank Parlato

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  • Do you know if you go on a starvation diet, you become rail thin THE VERY NEXT DAY? You didn’t know that huh? You didn’t, cause you don’t. Likewise with sleep deprivation, you turn into a zombie SLOWLY.

    Plenty of time to wake up and turn away and back to a healthier lifestyle.

    This “victim” bs only applies to women and it’s disgusting.

  • What dad Bronfman feared the most became true. Keith likely fucked both his daughters . It is ironic that the children of billionaires and master manipulators like Emiliano Salinas, fell for Keith. It really says something of the values we have in society . We respect billionaires. People like Claire. Why? We need to wake up.

  • “Vicente said he was concerned about her health and how skinny she had become.”
    and also showed how he didn’t really care as he did nothing…

    “Q Was [Daniella Padilla] one of the women who concerned you?
    A Yes. She had always been skinny, but it looked to me to be getting worse.”
    No, she was thin…

    “Q Was Nicki Clyne skinny?
    A She was also very skinny, yes”
    hmmm, no…she was thin but not skinny but Nicky wasn’t really obeying the diet.

    “Was Sylvie one of the women who was skinny?”
    No, she wasn’t…she was thin and not due to the diet

    “Q Was Kerstin skinny?
    A Very. She was one of the ones I was very concerned about.”
    I don’t know her so no comment on her but on his behavior…
    This “hero” is “concerned” yet did what? nothing…
    He continued to support Raniere for quite some time

    Once again, Allison (I can talk about her as I know when it started) was on this dangerous diet for many years and started to look dangerously thin and not in great shape for YEARS…
    Starting from 2013…he was around Allison at that time as it’s the moment Allison left her Brooklyn apartment for Knox Wood.

    He saw her going worst and worst and did what?…he did a cat ox.
    He looked at her, then got back to bed with not a care in the world (only to blame her later).

    He is, for me, as responsible as Raniere as he saw what Raniere did, he supported Raniere nonetheless and continued his selfish asshole-ish life without caring about anyone but him and his wallet.

    Sarah has, at least, the excuse of not being around the monster all the time and not seeing what was happening but Vicente…he was in Raniere’s backyard and watched him destroying more and more life.

    “but there was still the issue of my rank and his rank”
    And of course, when lives are at stake, you must remember your rank and not do the right thing…

    ” I don’t share that anymore, but that’s what I thought at the time.”
    He conveniently didn’t share that when criminal risk was obvious…he was participating in the crime and that’s why, all of a sudden, he didn’t follow the “wisdom”

    Who sane believes that slowly killing someone is related to anything wise?

    He didn’t give a damn…period

    “Okay. So there’s a lot more going on than I realize.”
    He put a blindfold and ignored it…even when he was told the truth! what a hero…

    “Q Did you later learn that the defendant had sexual relations with other members of the NXIVM community?
    A Once I had left, yes. But while I was still in … those instances I mentioned [were] most of the ones I knew about.

    Q Did you witness the defendant being physically intimate with women in the community?
    A I did.”
    So either he kept his blindfold quite tied (and probably blocking blood from reaching his brain)…or he is just stupid.

    “In this selection from Vicente’s testimony, he says he knew of some, but not all of Raniere’s likely sex partners. I believe him”
    Now come on…while he likely didn’t know all the victims of the hairy greaseball, he also clearly stated that he saw what Raniere was doing with others (yet pretend that for him, it didn’t mean a thing)

    He knew most of them being victims and ignored it…for mark, it wasn’t a problem to support and praise Raniere for all those years and Raniere didn’t become a monster all of a sudden!

    He was close to Raniere and knew what he was doing but chose to ignore it so he could continue his paid laziness…

    “It is hard to fathom how so many intelligent and good looking people were fooled by this swindler”
    Because they trusted the wrong person at first…people like Mark, Sarah…
    Because it’s a cult and that is what they do…even the smartest people can fall for cults!

    they know when to hit you and how…

    “The women corralled, recruited and kept each other in line. ”
    Because he used coercion and pressure of punishment…it was confirmed by a “not so victim” Lauren during her testimony.

    For example, all the “pods” were connected to each other and he was asking a “chain” to make sure that they depended on each other…
    One piece failed, the rest of the chain is punished by him.

    “The others, like Lauren and Allison, are likely to get a few years [if I were sentencing them, I would give them probation or home detention.]”
    Allison doesn’t even deserve home detention…she was coerced when she was dragged (by force) into this like all the real victims…
    Lauren, it’s another story. 20 years of joyful destruction in the name of the fraud.
    Then when caught she is like “I have nothing to do with it… I was in for 6 months”.
    She is nothing like a victim, she had a choice, a real one but chose Raniere.

    Allison and the others were forced into this.

    “Nancy Salzman the third”
    I’d say second as she was deciding for a lot of things (but DOS) and she is responsible of her daughter’s fall…Lauren continued to support him for many years but nancy pushed Lauren in Raniere’s arms.

    “The second greatest rascal, next to Raniere himself, Clare Bronfman”
    Now that isn’t fair…clare is a useful idiot whose wallet justified Raniere’s interest…
    He used her more than she gained anything.

    She accepted for years to pay but so did members like Vicente or Sarah and Vicente knew WAY more about the dirty secret than Clare did…

    she is hateful, mean and everything but the second isn’t fair…she didn’t do as many bad things as nancy or her daughter.

    I agree mostly with what you said but for a few things:
    You find way too many excuses to Vicente
    You put Clare at one of the highest levels while it should be nancy (she is one of the co-founders of this terrible cult and behind many of the manipulative techniques)
    You still put Lauren at the same level of the victim while the real victims (Allison, Nicole, Jayes, India and others were forced to participate in the “crimes”)
    Lauren, on the other hand, participated for YEARS the crime and wasn’t coerced until DOS.
    and except the pictures, what collateral was kept against her? She, much like cami, knew the real purpose before giving anything…
    None of the other victims knew the real purpose…and no, not even Allison…the trial showed (once again) this much.

    Still, the worst on this is Vicente.
    YEARS of blissful willing ignorance until he felt like it could legally explode.
    Then, all of a sudden he finds the decency to leave (while letting a victim he saw being destroy being accused).

    He is nothing but a coward selfish idiot who would likely kiss Raniere’s ass again if it wasn’t for this ass to be in jail.

      • Source reference:
        https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TLDR
        TLDR
        Too Long. Didn’t Read.

        Frequently used acronym by lazy, ignorant people in Internet Forums, where their urge to type something exceeds their ability to read something or if they generally lack semantic ability to either comprehend or respond to a post due to underdeveloped brain.

        Stating that they were to lazy reading someone else’s post just confirms the ignorant attitude and also often destroys the discussion in the thread.

        The average IQ of people typing TLDR in Internet forums is about 64.
        The average IQ of people typing TLDR in Internet forums is about 64.

        Since I am a lonely masturbating boy with no brain I have no capacity to read all you said, but due to my lonely social life I still feel like typing something in this thread, I will type TLDR.

        The average IQ of people typing TLDR in Internet forums is about 64.
        #idiot#lazy#underdeveloped brain#jerk#douchebag
        by foopp May 05, 2009

    • Re:
      Anonymous
      May 19, 2020 at 11:49 pm

      “He saw her going worst and worst and did what? He did a cat ox.”

      If Catherine Oxenberg observes that Allison Mack had nightmares in the night, and ran outside at night (dressed) and went jogging, that is no reason to intervene or call the police. Allison Mack was an adult woman at the time and there was no way to intervene. Rather, Allison Mack was a danger to Catherine Oxenberg’s daughter, over whom she had acquired an unseemly/dangerous influence through manipulative techniques. Catherine Oxenberg had to worry more about her daughter India than about Allison Mack.

      But I have one question: What about Allison Mack’s parents and siblings? What did they observe, or experience and do? Allison Mack had never broken off contact with her family, and they also saw and heard enough about Allison. Why are outsiders blamed for not helping Allison? How did Allison’s family help Allison?

  • What have we learned, kids?

    If your guru wanna screw you
    Don’t feel flattered
    Word salad mayonnaise mindfuck
    A few grunts was all that mattered

  • Don’t agree about Clare. The whole basis of misbehaviour in cults is the activity of “permissioning” which is used to incite people to act outside their boundaries on the justification that guru XYZ said it was ok…

    I’ve heard recordings of Raniere on Youtube where he compares opponents to a poisonous snake and tells people that
    “the only way to deal with a poisonous snake is to cut it’s head off before it bites you” (I’m paraphrasing)

    Clare was trying to follow a system of self evolution taught by a man she thought was one of the most ethical and intelligent human beings on the planet. He portrayed their mission as creating a more noble civilization, and anyone opposed to it as an unthinking reptile whose sole purpose was to destroy. He permissioned her (and others who are now your friends) to act ruthlessly and it’s probable she did so purely at his behest. It merely shows that she had bought into his worldview, worse than anyone else.

    It also means “coming down” from his shinny, pre-constructed “story universe” will be that much more impactful. And regardless of what you say about her still being devoted to her leader, I”m certain that the dichotomy between Raniere teaching personal evolution , then using that system for the alleged sexual predation of his followers in order to gratify his personal appetites is not lost on her as a woman.

    None of the criminality she was charged with raises to the level of the crimes charged against Allison and Lauren. I agree that neither Allison and Lauren should serve time. Clare’s charges were of a more minor nature, where she was essentially tricked into unwarily committing crimes on Raniere’s behalf, and she doesn’t really deserve incarceration. IMO.

    BTW are you still being sued by her?

    • Bronfman is just stupid and happens to have the money to take out her frustrations of being stupid and ugly on others. A more noble civilization does not make her wear a jock strap. LOL

    • What made me realize that Clare bear is evil is how she treated Sylvie. Sylvie had a medical condition and still she required her to continue doing the stupid trainings. She did not give a damn about her health. A normal person would worry that another is sick and needs medical attention. They would think twice before telling them to continue training.

      Clare’s crimes brought much more damages to people because of the money she had. People lost their livelihood and were threatened to being in a cage due to her lawsuits. It is scary to have a free woman with billions being able to do that. Clare deserves to be incarcerated. She is a danger to society.

  • ” they were like – almost, like giddy call girls” Frank Parlato

    I might frame the narrative a little bit differently.
    I would argue that Raniere was more of a call boy.
    These women all knew, sooner or later, that Raniere was sleeping around.
    And these women all accepted it and shared it.
    Many even financed him liberally.
    The women were customers for his sexual services.
    In the old days, Raniere would be called a “gigolo”.
    In reality, Keith Raniere is a man-whore.

  • Raniere was like a crack-head, always needing a little more dope to get high.

    If the third child was his, that’s three boys and no girls. I wonder how many women had abortions because the sex of the fetus was the one Raniere hated.

  • I have no sympathy for the major players in the inner circle–female or male, both were equal opportunity perps IMO in this day and age of equality–who enabled Raniere for so long. The Sleazemans knew who he was, lied about him, emotionally manipulated others for him, and enabled him for almost two decades. They should all suffer physical jail sentences in proportion to the responsibility they figuratively imprisoned others in mental and emotional jails. Charlatans and hucksters, the lot of them.

  • It is always underestimated that big criminal RICO companies depend on their “criminal accountants” and with their help keep the criminal company alive. Tax evasion, money laundering, bank fraud, wire fraud, money and asset transfers, concealment of ownership. Without these people, many RICO companies would be unthinkable, and part of the division of labor in the criminal enterprises. If you want to smash criminal structures, you have to hit everyone who is involved in the success of the criminal enterprise. And that includes the “accountants” like Kathy Russell. People like Kathy Russell should not be underestimated in their importance, and “deserve” harsh punishments.

Frank Parlato Investigates

Frank Parlato Investigates

Frank Parlato is an investigative journalist.

His work has been cited in hundreds of news outlets, like The New York Times, The Daily Mail, VICE News, CBS News, Fox News, New York Post, New York Daily News, Oxygen, Rolling Stone, People Magazine, The Sun, The Times of London, CBS Inside Edition, among many, many others in all five continents.

His work helping take down NXIVM is featured in books like “Captive” by Catherine Oxenberg; “Scarred” by Sarah Edmonson; “The Program” by Toni Natalie, and “NXIVM. La secta que sedujo al poder en México” by Juan Alberto Vasquez.

Parlato has been featured prominently on HBO’s documentary “The Vow” and acted as lead investigator and coordinating producer for Investigation Discovery’s “The Lost Women of NXIVM.”

Parlato will be featured in an upcoming episode of American Greed.

If the whole world stands against you sword in hand, would you still dare to do what you think is right?

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