This is Part #9, the final part, in our series on sex-slaver Keith Alan Raniere teaching his sex-slave, former actress Allison Mack, based on a conversation he had with her that is published on YouTube and was once a part of his Keith Raniere Conversations Series.
The YouTube video can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PTG0CB_biM&authuser=1
The work of transcribing was accomplished by Marie White.
Here are the other parts of the series:
In this excerpt, Keith explains a little more of his philosophy on gender, saying he hates the idea of men and women being equal and uses the concept of sterilizing cats to make his point.
Keith: I’ve seen some people say something, and obviously I didn’t come with this, maybe I did, but who knows: I don’t believe in equality. Equivalence maybe, but not equality. It would be awful to say that men and women are equal.
K: They’re not. You know, sometimes, I’ve had friends that were pretty, you might, you would call radical feminist, almost as radical as I am — no I’m just teasing, but you ask them the following question and it’s a trap. It’s a structural question.
You know you have 100 male cats and you have 100 female cats, and you want to stop the problem of overpopulation and I say, “you know, something. Don’t even sterilize the male cats. Sterilize all the female cats.’ You say it like that, and they say, “How dare you?” You know dudda dudda dudda dudda and then you point out it’s a trap question. It’s a structural question. You know why? Why should you sterilize all the female cats and ignore sterilizing the male cats?
A: The males can’t reproduce without the females, and the males can produce many, many, many, many cats and the females can produce.
K: Right. In essence, I think a shorter way of what you’re saying is that you know you can sterilize, you can have 100 female cats and a hundred male cats. Sterilize 99 of the male cats, how many litters do you have?
K: Of course. Now 100 male cats, 100 female cats, sterilize 99 of the female cats how many litters do you have?
K: Every female cat that you sterilize, you cut off the duct. They’re not equal. If they were equal you could sterilize 50/50; you could sterilize da da da. They’re not equal. Structurally they are not equal and it would be horrible in the world if we were equal. We would be so far behind. Men desperately need women and women desperately need men. They need the differences.
The similarities are important in the basis that they’re both human. You know, it’s interesting, you have even other difficulties. You have sex and you have gender. So I’ve known two people in my life who were hermaphrodites and sometimes they may not even know. So the question is, all right, you have Jness and you have someone who was a hermaphrodite and then they chose, if you will, the male sex organs over the female sex organs or whatever. Should they be allowed in Jness? [Jness is Raniere’s women’s group.] Well I think it’s more of the answer of how were they brought up?
K: What was their identification? Did they have that? and then it’s not always clear, and it’s really sad that all of these issues, yeah, sure, we have these different gender issues, sex: male, sex: female and there’s a whole bunch of different types of things that are non-common variations. What’s more important is they’re human. Don’t forget that they’re human.
We can work out the other stuff, but people just get all trapped in that sort of thing. Well what is Jness? About people who have been brought up and identify themselves as a woman. If someone identified themselves as a man, even if they were woman, and they were treated that way, Jness may not even apply to them. We have another organization, SOP, that is for men. And then there might be some people that unfortunately don’t fit in either camp and you always have that when you have, you know, you have people. I knew a woman in my high school, in my public high school, who was albino African American.
K: She didn’t fit anywhere. She was African-American with white, white, white skin, you know, and a lot of people experience that sort of a thing. The only way we are ever going to resolve those questions, because you’re not going to have an absolute resolution like that, is the humanist – this is a human being you’re dealing with more importantly than any of those descriptors.
A: I guess that’s just the toolbox that you get to express yourself or experience yourself as the other features.
K: So do you have any other questions?
A: I feel like I could talk to you all night but I think I covered all of the questions on my–
K: Your list?
A: My list, yeah in different orders, but it’s amazing you went through them all.
A: Thank you
K: You’re welcome
The entire conversation would not be worth watching or listening to at all if it were to be viewed at face value. It is all pretty commonplace and humdrum and nowhere near what you would expect from the world’s smartest, most ethical man.
But it is fascinating to view as part of our study of cults and how they work to slow boil the frog.
What is very nearly meaningless drivel, Allison takes as profound and deep.
Keith likes to emphasize the differences in men and women, and in his cult, there is a big difference since he is the only man in it.
I say he is the only man, because the other males in the cult, though biologically male, are subservient and feminine in their attitude towards the “Big Alpha” or “Big Dog” as they called Raniere in his men’s group SOP [Society of Protectors].
The men in his group were of the cuckold variety, most of them probably hoping that Raniere would sperminate on their women, if they had a woman. It is curious that in Nxivm, women outnumbered the men four to 1, yet many of the men did not have a woman since so many of the women were dedicated to Raniere.
Allison was one of these women.
Toward the end of the conversation, Raniere makes what he thinks is an elegant, heartfelt tribute to humanity trumping all gender issues.
He says, “It’s really sad that all of these issues, yeah, sure, we have these different gender issues, sex: male, sex: female and there’s a whole bunch of different types of things that are non-common variations. What’s more important is they’re human. Don’t forget that they’re human.
“We can work out the other stuff…. The only way we are ever going to resolve those questions, because you’re not going to have an absolute resolution like that, is the humanist – this is a human being you’re dealing with more importantly than any of those descriptors.”
It is intriguing because this is a man who abused women for decades, who raped little girls, who branded women, who blackmailed them, starved them, sleep-deprived them, who sued his ex-lovers and filed criminal complaints against them, who tortured women, who lied to women, forced them to have dozens of abortions, and may have killed some of them, and had he not been arrested and stopped, Allison and a lot of other women would still be enthralled and trapped in his cult today, following him, thinking he is the only one who could save them and lead them.
He is talking about humanist ideas, that the human being transcends gender. He talks of himself as compassionate and ethical.
This is the lesson. Debunk everyone. Think for yourself. Submit to no one. Break free of anyone who tells you they know better than you.
At the very end of the conversation, Keith asks “So do you have any other questions?” and Allison answers obsequiously, “I feel like I could talk to you all night but I think I covered all of the questions on my… list, yeah in different orders, but it’s amazing you went through them all.”
She is amazed that he – almost like it is more than genius – but somehow something mystical occurred – he was – without even seeing the list – able to get to answer all her questions – even the unasked question – and in the order he chose.
He is in masterful command, she thinks. He’s just amazing to her. Yet there was really nothing out of the ordinary, possibly not one original thought and a lot of drivel.
But she saw magic.
Undoubtedly, these conversations did not attract new followers. I am quite certain that no one who saw the video ever said “Wow, this guy is profound, I want to learn from him.”
I suspect that these conversations with Keith Raniere were exercises in keeping his followers in line. In putting it out there that he was doing something for the world, he was really putting it out there just for his small sect of followers.
Today both of the conversationalists, Allison and Keith, stand convicted of felony crimes. Both await sentencing.
Both will likely spend years in prison. Raniere probably decades and Mack perhaps in the 3-5 year range.
Perhaps Judge Nicolas Garaufis will go easy on Allison and give her a light, 1-2 year sentence. Perhaps he will even sentence her to home confinement. That would be fair, I think, for she has suffered plenty for her foolish following of a master conman and cult leader.
As for Raniere, he is going away for decades. He will not get leniency. He may get life.
Just as Raniere tried to get Allison and others to take the fall for his crime, he is taking the fall and, rightly so, for he masterminded it all.