By AnonyMaker
Here’s an anecdote: A branch of my extended family sent their kids to Waldorf school. The kids now openly say say it was a cult – yes, they use the “c” word itself – and challenge their parents for having sent them.
Unfortunately, as insightful as they are, the girls in particular seem to have been badly damaged, and are so plagued by psychological problems and psycho-somatic illnesses that I fear they will not even really be able to live on their own as adults (they left or were taken out of Waldorf as things became untenable, and are now in special educational programs for young adults in need of extra support and structure).
I expect apologists will explain that away as not possibly having anything to do with Waldorf, or at least being due to the school not properly applying Rudolph Steiner’s teachings. But if I’d told you instead that the girls were doing fabulously, they’d have assumed that was surely the fruit of Steiner’s work.
And just because there may be some validity to principles such as colors being calming, doesn’t by extension apply to the leap that somehow Steiner’s peculiar, convoluted color philosophy has any particular validity.
That’s a fallacy – apparently logic isn’t taught in Waldorf or Anthroposophy – well recognized as an unsupported leap, and in particular one frequently found in cult indoctrination and apologetics.
I get that some are well-versed in defending Steiner as having been right regarding all the things that he might seem obviously to have been wrong about, or that just don’t seem to make sense in the 21st century.
They indeed seem unable to address the possibility that he could have been wrong about anything, which is sort of the working definition of culty adherence to a guru – just what we see playing out with Lauren Salzman, for instance.
And the claim that “Steiner really and truly was not a racist….but he was deeply aware of the realities of different races” smacks of just the sort of “yes, but” (or “but, yes”) disingenuousness that I was referring to. Thus confirming that they believe in Steiner’s teaching that different souls incarnate in different races depending on how advanced they are, even though they claim that is neither racist, nor potentially harmful when used as a basis for dealing with children in an educational environment?
Anyway, let’s go back to a basic reminder of Steiner’s “word salad” nuttery – keeping in mind that modern science has shown that race is actually a false construct, and that genetics in particular has shown that there are far fewer actual differences between various members of the human race than once thought:
The Occult Significance of Blood (1907) by Rudolph Steiner
“Who gains power over a man’s blood gains power over the man, and that blood is ‘a very special fluid’ because it is that about which, so to speak, the real fight must be waged, when it comes to a struggle concerning the man between good and evil.”
….
“Occult investigation shows decisively that all the things which surround us in this world — the mineral foundation, the vegetable covering, and the animal world — should be regarded as the physiognomical expression, or the ‘below,’ of an ‘above’ or spirit life lying behind them. From the point of view taken by occultism, the things presented to us in the sense world can only be rightly understood if our knowledge includes cognition of the ‘above,’ the spiritual archetype, the original Spiritual Beings, whence all things manifest have proceeded.”
….
“Questions of great importance are pressing upon us these days; questions dealing with the education, not alone of the young, but of entire nations … such questions are illuminated as soon as we recognize the nature of the spiritual essence which lies at the back of our blood. Who can deny that this question is closely linked to that of race, which at the present time is once more coming markedly to the front? Yet this question of race is one that we can never understand until we understand the mysteries of the blood and of the results accruing from the mingling of the blood of different races.”
….
“To what extent are uncivilized peoples capable of becoming civilized? How can an utterly barbaric savage become civilized? And in what way ought we to deal with them?”
If that sounds reminiscent of German Nazi theory about blood and race, they are indeed related – through Steiner’s connections with occult groups.
Shall we get into Steiner’s Rite of Memphis-Misraim lodge, and its connections to the Thule Society that spawned the Nazi party? (And, yes, the Nazis ultimately cracked down on Waldorf Schools – at the point they were settling scores with erstwhile allies come to be seen as rivals for power and influence, in what can be viewed as more of an internecine conflict).
Next up: Should we consider that Keith Raniere may have been Steiner’s reincarnation and successor?
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Sigh. If you look back at my posts, I said I often go to Waldorf Watch to find the more way-out Steiner quotes, nothing new here, I’m sorry to say.
I’ll just answer one point: go and read one of Steiner’s most fundamental works, “Occult Science”, or at least the first section of it:
https://wn.rsarchive.org/Books/GA013/English/AP1972/GA013_index.html
Here you will find a description of the sequence of planetary “rounds” the Earth has been through. In the first round, the physical body developed. In the second round, the etheric body developed, and plants came into being. In the third round, the Moon phase, the astral body developed, and animals came into being. And now, in the present fourth round — the Earth round — the human ego is developing.
Steiner makes it completely and abundantly and repeatedly clear that he’s NOT referring to the present celestial bodies bearing those names. Confusing as it may be, there are reasons for the associations, which become more and more clear as you study more.
Right now, we have clever scientists injecting fish genes into tomatoes, firefly genes into sweet potatoes, for their clever ends. They are muddling up whole different realms, in ways that could never ever occur in nature. The reason they can do this (apart from the fact that they can) is that they have no understanding whatsoever, not even the faintest glimmer, as to WHY there’s an animal kingdom, or a vegetable kingdom, or a mineral kingdom. They just take it all for granted and mess with it at will.
Here in Steiner we find a cosmic explanation as to why these different realms exist, how they’re interrelated.
I’ve said over and again, pulling obscure Steiner quotes out of context is just the dumbest thing you can do. It’s so tedious.
So let me tell you one of my favourite cranky Steiner sayings, you can add this to your list. He says: if scientists could see what was in the centre of the Sun, they would see that there is something there that is less than nothing. And he makes the comparison of having a negative amount of money (he says we all understand that) — but insists that this applies to physical reality as well.
Now, in quantum physics, we get negative probabilities. This concept makes absolutely no physical sense at all, but these are inescapable realities in quantum mechanical calculations. The great quantum theorist Richard Feynman said that the real big difference between classical physics and quantum physics, is precisely that you get negative probabilities in the latter. And you can’t get rid of them.
Paul Dirac, who put quantum mechanics on a sound axiomatic footing, also pointed to these negative probabilities, and said — they may make no physical sense, but in essence they are no more strange than negative amounts of money. Exactly the same argument Steiner made.
Rudolf Steiner actually wrote down Schrodinger’s equation, in precise form, 15 years before Schrodinger did. He wrote a second-order diffusion equation with the right-hand side multiplied by the “imaginary” number i, the square root of negative one. He pointed to this imaginary number and said that this was actually the signature of how light propagates. You can go and find this for yourself. This is absolutely identical in form to the Schrodinger equation for the propagation of light, with its imaginary wave function.
I’m sure you would have told him at the time he was nuts. What do “imaginary” numbers have to do with light?
With a colossal, literally cosmic body of work like Steiner’s — especially one that was cut short, as I’ve stressed — you need to put things in context. There’s not a thing you say there that even remotely bothers me.
Regarding Mars: there are a whole slew of landings planned on Mars in the next few years. I’ll take anyone a bet, right here and now, that if and when the findings of these probes are properly revealed, they will shake up everything we know about that planet. Mars is very mysterious. I’m talking especially about discovering very distinct signs of life there. In the form of living beings, perhaps living underground, as so many esoteric sources claim, where there are sources of water — the liquid Steiner was referring to. And perhaps these livings beings will confirm one of Steiner’s other strange sayings, I’m disappointed you missed this, it’s there somewhere on Waldorf Watch:
“Thus the Buddha became a Redeemer and Saviour for Mars as Christ Jesus had become for the Earth.”
https://wn.rsarchive.org/GA/GA0141/19121222p01.html
The universe is far, far more mysterious than any of us can grasp. I absolutely cannot pretend to understand a lot of Steiner’s sayings, and I stick to the ones that I do understand thoroughly and can logically expound for myself, like the planetary rounds. If NASA were honest, we may already have evidence of life on Mars. Maybe Donald Trump’s Space Force is a sign that we are being prepared for these revelations, who can tell. Let’s wait and see, shall we.
In the meantime: can YOU explain the phenomenon of negative probabilities in quantum physics? How can something be more than certain, or less than impossible?
Interesting, AnonyMaker. You’ve prolly hit the bullseye on KAR’s earliest, fondest ambition to become a, if not “the,” Jules Steiner. Raniere did attend Waldorf, as most FR readers already know.
…Or “Rudolph” Steiner, him too. 😄
Not everything Steiner said was absolute rubbish, but most of it was. Most of his ‘books’ are actually clumsy transcripts of rambling ‘lectures’ that went on for hours. He was a member and high up functionary of the Theosophical Society, which was founded by the proven liar Helena Blavatsky. Its worth noting that not everything a liar says is a lie, but after a certain point the label is justified.
My opinion is that in the present day he would be diagnosed with Schizo Affective Disorder with Co-morbid Autism Spectrum symptoms.
And yes, I am a qualified mental health professional.
Steiner split with the Theosophists when they pronounced Krishnamurti as the new Christ. He was adamant that every single thing he put forward, he had personally investigated and confirmed with his own clairvoyant powers. Not one jot owed to Blavatsky or anyone else.
Read Steiner’s lecture series “World Economy”, the greatest economic insights I’ve ever seen. I have edited hundreds of econometric papers for journal publication, they were mostly absolutely worthless. To me, it’s still absolutely astonishing that Steiner could stand up and produce, without notes, such complex and detailed expositions.
As a matter of interest, if Jesus were around today, how would you diagnose him?
PS: Check out Steiner’s Lectures on Lecturing, a true masterpiece of the art. He says, you can’t sculpt sculpture, or paint painting, but I’m going to lecture lecturing.
Here’s one insight. Humans have a threefold constitution, three autonomous systems: thinking, willing, and feeling. Steiner says, when you get up to lecture, remember: your thoughts interest no one. Imposing your will repels everyone. Only an expression of your feelings is going to move your audience.
There, in a nutshell, is the best advice I’ve ever seen on lecturing. This is “rambling”?
He says, anyone can learn how to lecture. There’s just one necessary condition: you have to make a fool of yourself N number of times, where N depends on the individual. I’ve given many hundreds of lectures, I’m still working on reaching N.
I confirmed with my own clairvoyant powers that you’re a nutcase. LOL
‘personally investigated and confirmed with his own clairvoyant powers’
That’s like claiming something’s been proven with a Ouija board and a reading of chicken entrails – pseudo-scientific nonsense. It’s indeed in the same vein as Raniere’s word salad transmissions of similarly concocted theoretical nuttery to his credulous followers – who, like you and Allison, are determined to try to read profundity into gibberish.
The list of all the things Steiner got wrong is quite long, but here are segments of a start (and, yes, I have no doubt that a true believer can find ways to try to explain away all of them) – note in about the middle, the references to Atlantis and Lemuria as real, historical places:
STEINER’S BLUNDERS
The Fruits of Clairvoyance
“Steiner’s medical teachings do indeed include the preposterous idea that the heart is not responsible for circulating blood. Blood circulates of its own accord, he taught. [5] The heart, you see, is a sense organ, not a pump. [6] Likewise, the brain is different from what you may have been taught. Thinking does not occur in the brain [7] — except among materialists, who are incapable of real cognition (aka clairvoyance). [8]
Other medical truths, according to Steiner:
◊ Cancer can be treated with mistletoe. [9]
◊ People have twelve senses. [10]
◊ People exhibit four “temperaments” (and, therefore, students of differing temperaments should be segregated and taught differently — they can be in the same classroom, but in separate parts of that room). [11]
◊ Real human beings are equipped with nonphysical bodies [12] (but this is not so true for “people” who are not really human, Steiner clarified [13]).
◊ If real people are very very wise, they can develop organs of clairvoyance. [14]
And what about non-medical subjects, beyond the ones we have already sampled? Steiner taught that Atlantis existed. [15] Before Atlantis, he lectured, there was another doomed human habitation: Lemuria. Problem for Anthroposophists: There is no shred of evidence that either such place ever existed. [16] Folklore and fables do not constitute evidence.
According to Steiner, the Aryan race arose from people who had lived on Atlantis. Problem: The Aryan race does not and never did exist. [17] Belief in Aryanism is only one doctrine in Steiner’s catalogue of racist teachings, many of which are — as you might expect — hateful. Different races and peoples have different mentalities and spiritual abilities, according to Steiner. Some races are moving upward evolutionarily, creating new spiritual realities as they progress; others are, deservedly, nose-diving, he taught. [18]
Steiner interwove his racist and other doctrines with tidbits of astrology. Not to be confused with the science of astronomy, astrology is the baseless, outmoded belief that the position of various heavenly bodies, as seen from the Earth, causes profound effects for everything upon the Earth. This is bunk — or, to be more diplomatic, it is a proposition that has not yet been confirmed by documented substantiation. [19]
Here are a few more blunders Steiner made concerning heavenly orbs:
◊ He taught that the Sun and other “planets” were once part of the Earth. [20]
◊ He said that Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Saturn, and Jupiter do not orbit the Sun. [21]
◊ And he taught that ancestors of humans migrated to various planets (Mars, Saturn, Jupiter…) long, long ago. [22]
….
At least some of Steiner’s blunders resulted from the limitations imposed on him by the period in which he lived. He was largely confined by hypotheses current in the late-nineteenth and early-twentieth centuries. He was a victim, in other words, of various notions that science has subsequently discarded.
◊ His ignorance of the outer reaches of the solar system was natural for a man of his time, before space probes and giant telescopes gave us new data.
◊ He subscribed to belief in the “ether,” an impalpable substance that was once thought to pervade the universe, providing a medium for the propagation of light waves. [26]
◊ He accepted, with modifications, the Theosophical belief in Vulcan [27], an imaginary planet that scientists once thought accounted for perturbations in the orbit of Mercury.
◊ He accepted the notion, popular in his day, that Mars has surface features resembling canals. He denied that the Martian lines are canals, but he asserted that the lines exist. (Demonstrating his ignorance of gasses as well as his ignorance of astronomy, he claimed that the lines are actually Martian winds.)
◊ Moreover, he taught that Mars is primarily a liquid body — an error no educated individual in our own time could possibly make. He was wrong about the features resembling canals, and he was wrong about the surface conditions on Mars. [28] Indeed, he was wrong on all the matters I’ve listed just now. ”
https://sites.google.com/site/waldorfwatch/steiners-blunders
Sigh. If you look back at my posts, I said I often go to Waldorf Watch to find the more way-out Steiner quotes, nothing new here, I’m sorry to say.
I’ll just answer one point: go and read one of Steiner’s most fundamental works, “Occult Science”, or at least the first section of it:
https://wn.rsarchive.org/Books/GA013/English/AP1972/GA013_index.html
Here you will find a description of the sequence of planetary “rounds” the Earth has been through. In the first round, the physical body developed. In the second round, the etheric body developed, and plants came into being. In the third round, the Moon phase, the astral body developed, and animals came into being. And now, in the present fourth round — the Earth round — the human ego is developing.
Steiner makes it completely and abundantly and repeatedly clear that he’s NOT referring to the present celestial bodies bearing those names. Confusing as it may be, there are reasons for the associations, which become more and more clear as you study more.
Right now, we have clever scientists injecting fish genes into tomatoes, firefly genes into sweet potatoes, for their clever ends. They are muddling up whole different realms, in ways that could never ever occur in nature. The reason they can do this (apart from the fact that they can) is that they have no understanding whatsoever, not even the faintest glimmer, as to WHY there’s an animal kingdom, or a vegetable kingdom, or a mineral kingdom. They just take it all for granted and mess with it at will.
Here in Steiner we find a cosmic explanation as to why these different realms exist, how they’re interrelated.
I’ve said over and again, pulling obscure Steiner quotes out of context is just the dumbest thing you can do. It’s so tedious.
So let me tell you one of my favourite cranky Steiner sayings, you can add this to your list. He says: if scientists could see what was in the centre of the Sun, they would see that there is something there that is less than nothing. And he makes the comparison of having a negative amount of money (he says we all understand that) — but insists that this applies to physical reality as well.
Now, in quantum physics, we get negative probabilities. This concept makes absolutely no physical sense at all, but these are inescapable realities in quantum mechanical calculations. The great quantum theorist Richard Feynman said that the real big difference between classical physics and quantum physics, is precisely that you get negative probabilities in the latter. And you can’t get rid of them.
Paul Dirac, who put quantum mechanics on a sound axiomatic footing, also pointed to these negative probabilities, and said — they may make no physical sense, but in essence they are no more strange than negative amounts of money. Exactly the same argument Steiner made.
Rudolf Steiner actually wrote down Schrodinger’s equation, in precise form, 15 years before Schrodinger did. He wrote a second-order diffusion equation with the right-hand side multiplied by the “imaginary” number i, the square root of negative one. He pointed to this imaginary number and said that this was actually the signature of how light propagates. You can go and find this for yourself. This is absolutely identical in form to the Schrodinger equation for the propagation of light, with its imaginary wave function.
I’m sure you would have told him at the time he was nuts. What do “imaginary” numbers have to do with light?
With a colossal, literally cosmic body of work like Steiner’s — especially one that was cut short, as I’ve stressed — you need to put things in context. There’s not a thing you say there that even remotely bothers me.
Regarding Mars: there are a whole slew of landings planned on Mars in the next few years. I’ll take anyone a bet, right here and now, that if and when the findings of these probes are properly revealed, they will shake up everything we know about that planet. Mars is very mysterious. I’m talking especially about discovering very distinct signs of life there. In the form of living beings, perhaps living underground, as so many esoteric sources claim, where there are sources of water — the liquid Steiner was referring to. And perhaps these livings beings will confirm one of Steiner’s other strange sayings, I’m disappointed you missed this, it’s there somewhere on Waldorf Watch:
“Thus the Buddha became a Redeemer and Saviour for Mars as Christ Jesus had become for the Earth.”
https://wn.rsarchive.org/GA/GA0141/19121222p01.html
The universe is far, far more mysterious than any of us can grasp. I absolutely cannot pretend to understand a lot of Steiner’s sayings, and I stick to the ones that I do understand thoroughly and can logically expound for myself, like the planetary rounds. If NASA were honest, we may already have evidence of life on Mars. Maybe Donald Trump’s Space Force is a sign that we are being prepared for these revelations, who can tell. Let’s wait and see, shall we.
In the meantime: can YOU explain the phenomenon of negative probabilities in quantum physics? How can something be more than certain, or less than impossible?
A long answer that I wrote here seems to have gone astray before I saved it — maybe Frank will find it in his system and resurrect it. So let me keep this short.
I’ve said, the very dumbest thing you can possibly do with Rudolf Steiner is take fragments of what he says out of context. I’ve quoted Stanley Messenger saying, Steiner’s work is a vast, unfinished cathedral. It takes real effort and discernment to sort out what’s relevant today, no question at all.
Scorn is poured on the idea that Mars is mostly liquid. Let me just quote a couple of passages from a 2018 Scientific American article:
—>Underground Lake Found on Mars? Get the Facts.
The 12-mile-wide reservoir could solve a Martian mystery—and offer a new target in the hunt for extraterrestrial life.
Radar scans of the red planet suggest that a stable reservoir of salty, liquid water measuring some 12 miles across lies nearly a mile beneath the planet’s south pole. What’s more, the underground lake is not likely to be alone.
“There are other areas that seem to be similar. There’s no reason to say this is the only one,” says Elena Pettinelli of Italy’s Roma Tre University, a coauthor of the paper reporting the discovery today in the journal Science.
If confirmed, the buried pocket of water could answer a few questions about where Mars’s ancient oceans went, as well as provide a resource for future human settlements. Even more thrilling for astrobiologists, such a feature may be an ideal habitat for extraterrestrial life-forms. <—
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2018/07/news-lake-found-mars-water-polar-cap-life-space/
"…where Mars's ancient oceans went …"
Of course, anyone who says that Mars is mostly liquid must be stupid. But there were ancient oceans; and they seem to have gone underground.
Steiner's descriptions of Martian life may not be so stupid after all. Just saying.
I said before, I myself regularly troll Waldorf Watch to find some of the more way-out sayings of Steiner. There are many that make absolutely no sense to me at all, I've freely admitted. I never, ever, repeat something he said until I've clarified it in my own mind.
If you want to critique what Steiner said, why don't you tell me what's so stupid about the Threefold Social Order, an idea he put out to the general public, an idea that's core to the whole anthroposophical movement. Then we can have a proper discussion.
–Thinking does not occur in the brain [7] — except among materialists, who are incapable of real cognition (aka clairvoyance).
I’m not a Steiner fan. In fact, I know little about him. But this isn’t necessarily untrue or pseudo-science, at least partially. Aristotle and many other ancient and current philosophers, while they believe(d) the brain is the seat of the mind and is obviously necessary thinking, they also believe(d) that part of the mind is not sensual or material but must be immaterial, and that part has to do with formal thought processes such as abstract and logical thinking, e.g., mathematics or modus ponens. That is because the physical or material is what is classified as indeterminate, while formal thought processes are the opposite, or determinate, and so they must be immaterial since such processes apply to all concrete instantiations that they are formalized over. See the paper “Immaterial Aspects of Thought” by James Ross on this particular subject.
I should definitely NOT be saying this, but what the hey.
Rudolf Steiner’s closest associate, with whom he pioneered anthroposophical medicine, was Ita Wegman. After she died, some of the correspondence between them was made public, a breach of privacy that caused great scandal in the movement. Steiner never, ever, talked in public about who he had been in previous incarnations; but here, he revealed that he had in fact been Aristotle.
You can go and look for yourself at the astounding correspondences between what Steiner said, and what Aristotle proposed. And for entertainment, you can do a search for “Aristotle was right” and see how many strange things the old sage said that have turned out to be true.
My very favourite of these is a scientific paper published in 1987 titled “Aristotle was right: Heavier objects fall faster” by John Donoghue and Barry Holstein:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231089764_Aristotle_was_right_heavier_objects_fall_faster
Using elementary quantum mechanics, they show that Einstein’s fundamental postulate about general relativity — that inertial mass is the same as gravitational mass — is only true at absolute zero. And absolute zero is unattainable. You would think that a proof that Einstein’s theory of GR is wrong in the real world would get a little more publicity.
At least one physicist claimed to have achieved true antigravity using this finding, an obscure Brazilian, Dr Fran Aquino, of Maranhao State University, a backwoods provincial college. I corresponded briefly with him around 2000. He then abruptly stopped publishing and disappeared off the map. Another Brazilian physicist tracked him down and knocked at his door. Aquino told him that the Brazilian military had shown up and taken over his work, and that he could no longer speak about it.
Another of Steiner’s cranky sayings referenced on this page is that mistletoe is a cure for cancer. Check out the work of Dr Fritz-Albert Popp, who pioneered Western research on biophotons, light emitted by living beings. One of his first discoveries was that out of ALL biological samples he looked at, mistletoe seemed to have the most unusual and active biophoton emissions, which seemed particularly promising in treating cancer:
“It’s known, too, that cancer-causing chemicals alter your body’s biophoton emissions, interrupting cellular communications, while certain substances help restore them. Dr. Popp found mistletoe to be one such substance that appeared to restore the biophoton emissions of tumor cells to a normal level.”
https://stillnessinthestorm.com/2016/11/The-Power-of-Biological-Light-in-Healing-Science-and-Understanding-We-know-today-that-man-essentially-is-a-being-of-light-Prof-Fritz-Albert-Popp/
I can show you many more examples where Steiner / Aristotle has turned out to be correct. One of Steiner’s predictions, made in 1922, was that if we did not change our ways, bees would start disappearing in “80 to 100 years”. The term “colony collapse disorder” was coined in 2006, or 84 years after Steiner’s prediction. He was spot on, once again.
Talking about the brain: modern MRI techniques have also completely vindicated Steiner’s statement that the brain does not send electrical signals through the nerves to make muscles move. The nerves are only there to tell the brain the exact disposition of the muscles, etc. What are called “sensory” nerves tell the brain what’s happening outside the body. The “motor” nerves tell the brain what’s happening inside the body.
It is the entirely autonomous “will” system, which acts instantaneously throughout the body, that initiates movement. He talks about this in his book on Waldorf education, “Soul Economy”.
The MRI scans show that the “decision-making” part of the brain only lights up AFTER the movement has been made. Materialists have jumped on this as final proof that we don’t have free will; that the brain only makes up narratives to explain what it has already done.
Steiner’s time is still coming, never fear. One day, just one of these revelations will turn out to be crucial in saving the world. Given the catastrophic pollution of the world’s oceans by nitrates from chemical fertilizers, vast “dead zones”, my bet is that Steiner’s greatest gift may be the organic compost heaps he proposed, which were the very beginning of biodynamic farming. He said: you cannot create organic life from dead chemicals.
The Book of Revelations talks about the seas turning to blood; this is exactly what we are seeing, with vast “red tides” of dead ocean.
In case you think biodynamic farming is nuts, I once had to edit a wine guide for a top farming magazine, in which biodynamic wines were rated as far more distinctive and pure than even the best organic wines. These were real wine experts, you cannot fool these guys. Go try some biodynamic wine, if you want some pleasant research in this field. Let us know how you rate it.
I prefer to operate on my own understanding of myself and my experiences, but if you find Steiner’s theories useful, do carry on.
As for Jesus: Diagnosing fictional characters falls outside my area of expertise.
That’s good, Paul, otherwise you’d go bonkers diagnosing half the commentors on this blog!
Bonkers already!
The Waldorf experience you describe (again) here is thoroughly atypical. Of the scores of Waldorf graduates I’ve met, from all over the world, none has said anything remotely like this. Every one of them loved their time at school. I do know there are a few Waldorf schools that are indeed pretty “culty”. I’ve warned that the anthroposophical movement has been deeply infiltrated, and to take extreme care and exercise total due diligence before sending a child to a Waldorf school, or to any school, for that matter.
The whole aim and intention of Waldorf schooling, the guiding principle, the fundamental axiom, the alpha and omega, is to allow the child to develop freely in their own way. Not to push them in any particular direction. Not to inculcate a particular program — there is none. There is just no way that anyone following Steiner’s precepts could try indoctrinate a child or induce them into a cult.
The only “culty” aspect of Waldorf education is eurythmy, a very particular art. If it’s badly taught, by rote, then I would say it would appear cult-like, because you’re drilled that various sounds correspond to various gestures. I know very little about eurythmy, unfortunately, these are very closely held secrets. And they ARE secrets, to be imparted responsibly. Steiner maintained that they were wrested from the lord of material existence, Ahriman — the one who’s in incarnation right now — by “force majeure”. He said that because of this, eurythmy teachers should insist on being paid, to give the materialist Ahriman his due. Steiner doesn’t say this of any other part of anthroposophical knowledge.
The occult significance of the blood is one of the highest aspects of anthroposophy. After decades of reading, I’ve hardly scratched the surface of this subject. I’ll just make one point here, to show how very far removed Steiner’s view was, from that of the Nazis.
When it comes to the Jewish “race”, which has very strict rules to propagate the bloodline — and how many of the “blue-blooded” aristocratic families are concerned with bloodlines? You think these people don’t know what they’re doing? — Steiner took the precise, exact opposite line to Hitler. Steiner said that with the crucifixion of Christ and the shedding of the blood at Golgotha, this bloodline’s mission was fulfilled. He maintained that the strict racial separation of Jews from Gentiles was now inappropriate. He said that the correct path was that of assimilation. The blending of the bloodlines.
Let me tell you straight: the idea of “assimilation” is far scarier to the rabbis than someone screeching about “extermination”, they can always use that to boost immigration to Israel, if nothing else. I had arguments with people in Israel about this, I busked in Jerusalem for six months in 1987, just before the first intifada erupted and the streets became suicide bomb zones. I talked to all kinds of people, including lots of Palestinians. Many religious Israelis were adamant that Jews should never interbreed. I said, isn’t that exactly what Hitler maintained? That usually ended the conversation.
So, really seriously, Rudolf Steiner could not possibly have been on a more opposite pole regarding “purity of the blood” than Adolf Hitler. There is absolutely no doubt that the Nazis stole and plagiarized and perverted Steiner’s thinking, in very many ways. But to associate Steiner with Nazi beliefs, especially on bloodlines, is as wrong as you can possibly get.
My picture of the history of the 20th century is very simple. If Nazism was the dark shadow, then the brilliant light that created this shadow was Rudolf Steiner. Period. The more I read about that era, the clearer this picture gets. I can actually prove that Hitler stole the notion of the Threefold Social Order from Steiner, he had to hide it very carefully. Read Hermann Rauschning’s book Hitler Speaks, and you’ll see it, without doubt.
Tell me the name of the Waldorf school that did all this damage to your family members. I will do an investigation with pleasure, and if there is any sign of skulduggery or Jesuit infiltration, I will hit them as hard as possible, right here.
I would love to read stories from the women and men that surely exist, that told these crazies to fuck off during an “intensive”, seminar or whatever the hell the initial classes were. People that stood up and plainly explained how batshit crazy they are, the classes were and that Vangaurd is a dipshit.
There has to be a jealous or concerned boyfriend, brother, father or friend that showed up and called them out and left with someone they cared about. I am sure there is a large number of women approached for dos or just to get more involved with NXIVM that laughed their asses off at the thought, at the recruiters and at vanguard himself.
For every person stupid and gullible enough to be part of this cult there must have been 10:1 that put them on blast. Even those that may have thought they were getting something from the course or courses realized how immature and hokey the rituals and crap was but played along.
Yeah, those experiences would be great to hear about. Laughing and walking away from Vangaurd’s tech, the chosen sash wearers, Nancy herself! Imagine the shock and horror people like Mack or L Salzman would have expressed at people speaking the truth about what they were too dumb to see themselves
Mitch, I’d like to hear from some of those myself but there does appear to be a mysterious derth of overt opponents.
In South Carolina on the Investigation Discovery set, we learned that Kristin Snyder walked out on an intensive being taught by Master Vanguard (Keith) himself. She also confronted some NXIVM men leading a course on rape during an intensive.
Where’s Kristin Snyder — one of the brave ones you seek — today?
This being the Internet, you’d think there’d at least be some posers offering up made up tall tales of experiences with this nutty crew. But silence apparently.
I’m sure Frank would share if anyone contacted him with this type of experience even if he couldn’t fact check. Just the entertainment value!
Pass the salad dressing.
Breaking News!
The Trump Administration raids the New York and Los Angeles offices of Canadian Fashion Mogul Peter Nygard in an ongoing Child Sex Probe.
FBI, NYPD raid fashion mogul Peter Nygard’s Times Square office in sex-trafficking probe
The FBI and NYPD raided the Manhattan offices of fashion mogul Peter Nygard Tuesday amid an ongoing federal sex-trafficking investigation, sources said.
The feds are probing claims that Nygard plied underage girls with booze at sex parties at his Bahamas mansion, according to law enforcement sources.
Nygard announced late Tuesday he was stepping down as chairman of Nygard International and will divest his ownership interest.
A spokesman for Nygard said the wealthy playboy’s Los Angeles offices were also raided, but the FBI and federal prosecutors would not confirm that blitz.
The raid comes on the heels of a federal lawsuit filed Feb. 13 by 10 unidentified women who accuse the 78-year-old Canadian businessman of a “decades-long sex-trafficking scheme.”
According to the lawsuit, Nygard regularly hosted sex-fueled soirées known as “pamper parties” at his ritzy mansion in exclusive Lyford Cay in the Bahamas — which he renamed Nygard Cay in 1992 and was once featured on “Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.”
The parties were “both to promote the Nygard company’s brand and facilitate commercial sex acts,” the lawsuit charges.
Lawyers for the accusers said they have “over 100 witnesses” in the case that includes “dozens of victims.”
The suit said Nygard also used Nygard International’s corporate jet to “smuggle” the women and girls to sites in the United States and at his estate in the Caribbean archipelago.
https://nypost.com/2020/02/25/fbi-nypd-raid-peter-nygards-times-square-offices-in-sex-trafficking-probe/
Is there now any doubt that the Trump Administration is Waging War against Pedophiles and Perverts?
NXIVM
Jeffrey Epstein
Harvey Weinstein
R. Kelly
Peter Nygard
Huawei
El Chapo
The Perverts and Pedophiles and Enemies of America are on the run!
Yes, there’s reason to doubt – those examples may well just be part of larger and long-standing trends. For instance, probably the two largest pedophilia cases in modern times were the 2010 prosecution of Earl Bradley by Delaware Attorney General Beau Biden (the late son of U.S. Vice President Joe Biden), and the Larry Nassar US Gymnastics case prosecuted at the state and federal level during the last administration.
It’s typical culty thinking to confuse correlation and causation – and to erroneously ascribe responsibility to a guru or leader (almost always male).
“In psychology, illusory correlation is the phenomenon of perceiving a relationship between variables (typically people, events, or behaviors) even when no such relationship exists.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_correlation